1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 16 Mar 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 149       Contents: Re: Configure issue  Re: DecWindows Redraw  Re: DIFF/IGNORE=WHITE_SPACE  Re: Free 4GB disks Re: Free 4GB disks	 Free iPOD G LIBHCT - GE/Fanuc Host Communications Toolkit for OpenVMS/AXP - anyone? E Re: Magnetic tape filenames become case sensitive in extended parsing  MQ Series: Potential BUGCHK?( Re: Request for feedback - Remote CTRL-T( Re: Request for feedback - Remote CTRL-T* Re: Setting density of SDLT in VMS 7.2-2 ?* Re: Setting density of SDLT in VMS 7.2-2 ?* Re: Setting density of SDLT in VMS 7.2-2 ?$ Re: UPS/Power conditioning questions$ Re: UPS/Power conditioning questions$ Re: UPS/Power conditioning questions Warren Sander e-mail address< [OT]: Details of the compensation package carly(tm) rejected  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 20:59:38 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> Subject: Re: Configure issue+ Message-ID: <4237A119.8DE2F8CC@comcast.net>    Richard Brodie wrote:  > 0 > "Bobby" <colemanr7@yahoo.com> wrote in message? > news:1110835961.251542.159490@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...  > K > > What I don't understand is why this just started happening? The command I > > worked fine until I installed the update patches.  Is config galaxy a  > > new command? > B > Pass. Even if they just added a new command option in a patch HP3 > would update DCLTABLES, overwriting your changes.  > H > It does seem to be one of those traditions that bite people sometimes:D > "Don't overwrite system command definitions, even the undocumentedE > ones; and no, there is no supported way to find out what they are".   , The operative keyphrase there is "supported"  6 I've had generally good results from the VERB program.  E Then again, you can DUMP SYS$LIBRARY:DCLTABLES.EXE, and DUMP is fully F supported. You just have to look at the four-character section to find= the root verbs and then use VERB to extract the definitions.    E VERB will actually dump the entire process command table, but it does  sometimes get confused.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Mar 2005 11:50:23 -0800# From: "Bobby" <colemanr7@yahoo.com>  Subject: Re: DecWindows RedrawB Message-ID: <1110916223.912665.92500@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  C The only reason I haven't upgraded is that I don't currently have a G 7.3-2 CD.  I've sent a message to our HP sales rep asking about this so G that I can order a copy of 7.3-2 but haven't gotten a response yet.  Is C there any way to just download maintenance updates like this (i.e.,  7.3-2 from 7.3-1)?   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Mar 05 18:00:53 EST) From: cook@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (George Cook) $ Subject: Re: DIFF/IGNORE=WHITE_SPACE! Message-ID: <mSbDINd4B4k$@wvnvms>   c In article <+SrOGmEd75Za@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: m > In article <4236aa64$0$78288$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>, Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> writes:  > M >> http://www.comics.com/comics/workingdaze/archive/workingdaze-20050315.html  > 
 > Blank page.  > K > It seems to expect browser security to be dropped by enabling Javascript.   B Works well enough from VMS Mosaic which has Javascript permanently
 disabled :-).      George Cook  WVNET    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 09:27:15 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com  Subject: Re: Free 4GB disks - Message-ID: <87ekegtm6k.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   . "Dr. Dweeb" <5msg0h202@sneakemail.com> writes:  M > Will these things run on a 2000-300 (aka Jensen) ?  I think I tried it once F > with an adapter and it failed.  Maybe a narrow SCSI 4.3GB will work.M > (and no, I am not going to buy another alpha to play with, one is enough, I ' > could just use a bit more disc space)   M Cable them up with a WIDE cable and terminators, then use a DEC Honda68-IDC50 M converter on the controller to the cable. Try to not throw up into the system  as you hook it up ;)   Worked fine on a 3000-600.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 23:01:31 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  Subject: Re: Free 4GB disks 0 Message-ID: <113fb9tkfc3sud2@corp.supernews.com>   prep@prep.synonet.com wrote:0 > "Dr. Dweeb" <5msg0h202@sneakemail.com> writes: >  > M >>Will these things run on a 2000-300 (aka Jensen) ?  I think I tried it once F >>with an adapter and it failed.  Maybe a narrow SCSI 4.3GB will work.M >>(and no, I am not going to buy another alpha to play with, one is enough, I ' >>could just use a bit more disc space)  >  > O > Cable them up with a WIDE cable and terminators, then use a DEC Honda68-IDC50 O > converter on the controller to the cable. Try to not throw up into the system  > as you hook it up ;) >  > Worked fine on a 3000-600. > * Which?  The disks, the cable, or the puke?   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Mar 2005 16:37:26 -0800 From: npicaut@clemson.edu  Subject: Free iPODC Message-ID: <1110933446.802281.235270@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>   A Check out this great site that is giving away totally FREE iPods!   + I've joined and I think you should as well.   F It's a completely legitimate offer, and this company has already given away $4 million in FREE stuff!  G All you have to do is join, complete an online offer, and refer friends  to do the same. That's it!  G Here is my referral link. To help me get my iPod, click this exact link - to join, or copy and paste it into a browser: $ http://www.freeiPods.com/?r=15015872   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Mar 2005 11:41:15 -0800 From: John.D.Hudson@gmail.com P Subject: LIBHCT - GE/Fanuc Host Communications Toolkit for OpenVMS/AXP - anyone?C Message-ID: <1110915675.167585.272130@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>    Hi, G I am looking for a copy of the GE/Fanuc Host Communications Toolkit for E Alphas. The part number was IC641SWP057.  It has been discontinued by G GE and they can not  locate a copy.  The VAX version of the library was E LIBHCT.OLB. I assume the AXP version is the same.  Does anyone have a   copy laying around I could have?   Thanks,  John   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 19:24:01 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) N Subject: Re: Magnetic tape filenames become case sensitive in extended parsing1 Message-ID: <lDGZd.1734$3X.1288@news.cpqcorp.net>   x In article <cSJ2vyWHAJe8@eisner.encompasserve.org>, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) writes:K :When using $ set process/parse=extended, filenames on magnetic tape become  :case sensitive... :Is this intended behaviour ?   (   Per a Diety of BACKUP, this is a bug.   <   Both tape labels and tape filenames should be upper-cased.     Thanks for reporting it.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 21:16:28 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>% Subject: MQ Series: Potential BUGCHK? + Message-ID: <4237A50C.ED84FA46@comcast.net>   ; Just wondering if anyone has heard anything about this one:   G We had a galaxy instance on a GS160 crash due to an "invalid time queue H entry format" BugCheck. The HP guys working the call have indicated thatH some other sites have recently (in fairly short order!) reported crashes4 with a similar footprint. The VMS version is V7.3-2.  ; The most notable recent change was an update of MQ Series.    H This was in development and not on the production cluster. So, we're not in a serious impact position.   5 Has anyone else seen this, or know anything about it?    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Mar 2005 17:41:53 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 1 Subject: Re: Request for feedback - Remote CTRL-T 3 Message-ID: <RXG2CYKXe79l@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <1110909781.558587.57190@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, kenneth.randell@verizon.net writes:F >> VMS development is at least somewhat distributed, avoiding a single >> point of geographic failure.  > H > Not to beat a dead horse, but other recent threads would indicate thatE > 'at least somewhat distributed' above is better rendered 'much more , > distributed than a year ago at this time'.  B I am not sure about that.  Certainly more distributed than 5 years ago.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 14:17:09 +1300 6 From: Martin Hunt <martin.hunt@fairfaxnz.REMOVE.co.nz>1 Subject: Re: Request for feedback - Remote CTRL-T 8 Message-ID: <u22f315rt92pdrtnbf8vr892vvp5rfdtk0@4ax.com>  3 On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:01:44 +1100, "O'Brien Paddy" ' <Paddy.O'Brien@transgrid.com.au> wrote:   ,>I forget who mentioned it, but CTRL^T shows useful information in BACKUP.  I agree with your useful concept here, but would think that firstly, other DCL commands could exhibit BACKUP's behaviour.  A first candidate would likely be copy.  Others that spring to mind are some of the SET FILE options. >  >In other words, I think that you should look at what useful information you could give us from within standard DCL.  Then give us the ability to add our own, which I then think would be lesserly (? :-) needed. >  >Not sure how I would consider using the remote feature.  What does CTRL^T give that I can't get for a remote process from sho process?  >   B I think it would be useful for monitoring a batch process which isB running backup. I could be doing a TYPE/TAIL/CONTINUOUS on its log1 file, and use CTRL-T to see what backup is up to.      ---  Martin Hunt  Systems Administrator  Fairfax New Zealand Limited 
 Wellington New Zealand    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 18:50:14 -0800 ( From: Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net>3 Subject: Re: Setting density of SDLT in VMS 7.2-2 ? / Message-ID: <BE5CDEE6.95F0%roktsci@comcast.net>   J On 3/15/05 8:17 AM, in article 39og9aF5tghmiU1@individual.net, "Roy Omond"$ <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> wrote:   > Gentle colleagues, > = > I'm flabbergasted that this is becoming a nightmare for me.  > 9 > Alpha 4100, VMS 7.2-2, SDLT 320 drives.  No prospect of   > anything other than VMS 7.2-2. > ; > How on earth do I set the density down to 110/220 instead  > of the default 160/320 ? > : > Initialise, Mount etc. etc. didn't get the /DENSITY=SDLT> > and /DENSITY=SDLT320 qualifiers until sometime after VMS 7.3< > (definitely in VMS 7.3-2).  There's no front panel buttons; > on the drives themselves like on the good old DLT drives.  > ? > The user handbook for the drive makes reference to a "Density C > Select Software CD", with the usual point-and-click instructions. H > Why has this sort of simple thing become so unbelievably complicated ? > % > Any help would be much appreciated,  >  > Roy Omond  > Blue Bubble Ltd.F I don't believe you are going to have any luck. The Reasons being thatI support for the SDLT and the SDLT320 tape drives was not written into the J drivers until Version 7.3, therefore the driver is physically incapable ofL composing the SCSI command with the proper device codes to command the driveL to write tapes in the low density format. You are able to write tapes in theK normal high density with and without compaction because that is the default I for the drives, and the device command for DEFAULT is the same across all L quantum DLT drives. You will still be able to read low density tapes becauseB the drive can auto-detect the density written on the media itself.   Jeff Cameron   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 21:07:26 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>3 Subject: Re: Setting density of SDLT in VMS 7.2-2 ? + Message-ID: <4237A2EE.60538456@comcast.net>    Roy Omond wrote: >  > Gentle colleagues, > = > I'm flabbergasted that this is becoming a nightmare for me.  > 9 > Alpha 4100, VMS 7.2-2, SDLT 320 drives.  No prospect of   > anything other than VMS 7.2-2. > ; > How on earth do I set the density down to 110/220 instead  > of the default 160/320 ? > : > Initialise, Mount etc. etc. didn't get the /DENSITY=SDLT> > and /DENSITY=SDLT320 qualifiers until sometime after VMS 7.3< > (definitely in VMS 7.3-2).  There's no front panel buttons; > on the drives themselves like on the good old DLT drives.  > ? > The user handbook for the drive makes reference to a "Density C > Select Software CD", with the usual point-and-click instructions. H > Why has this sort of simple thing become so unbelievably complicated ? > % > Any help would be much appreciated,   H Some of the c.o.v. denizens seem to be quite adroit at manipulating SCSIG drives. Maybe one of them could help you send IO$DIAGNOSE commands to a  drive once it's MOUNTed.  D For what it's worth, I'm not even sure we're lucky that  V7.2-2 even& supports the TK89 keyord for /DENSITY.  E Out of curiosity, why is 110/220 support necessary? Some clients have " drives that don't support 160/320?   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 23:08:24 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 3 Subject: Re: Setting density of SDLT in VMS 7.2-2 ? 0 Message-ID: <113fbmspbot7mf6@corp.supernews.com>   Jeff Cameron wrote: L > On 3/15/05 8:17 AM, in article 39og9aF5tghmiU1@individual.net, "Roy Omond"& > <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> wrote: >  >  >>Gentle colleagues, >>= >>I'm flabbergasted that this is becoming a nightmare for me.  >>9 >>Alpha 4100, VMS 7.2-2, SDLT 320 drives.  No prospect of   >>anything other than VMS 7.2-2. >>; >>How on earth do I set the density down to 110/220 instead  >>of the default 160/320 ? >>: >>Initialise, Mount etc. etc. didn't get the /DENSITY=SDLT> >>and /DENSITY=SDLT320 qualifiers until sometime after VMS 7.3< >>(definitely in VMS 7.3-2).  There's no front panel buttons; >>on the drives themselves like on the good old DLT drives.  >>? >>The user handbook for the drive makes reference to a "Density C >>Select Software CD", with the usual point-and-click instructions. H >>Why has this sort of simple thing become so unbelievably complicated ? >>% >>Any help would be much appreciated,  >> >>Roy Omond  >>Blue Bubble Ltd. > H > I don't believe you are going to have any luck. The Reasons being thatK > support for the SDLT and the SDLT320 tape drives was not written into the L > drivers until Version 7.3, therefore the driver is physically incapable ofN > composing the SCSI command with the proper device codes to command the driveN > to write tapes in the low density format. You are able to write tapes in theM > normal high density with and without compaction because that is the default K > for the drives, and the device command for DEFAULT is the same across all N > quantum DLT drives. You will still be able to read low density tapes becauseD > the drive can auto-detect the density written on the media itself. >  > Jeff Cameron >   F Just some wild ass guessing.  If the tape is initialized at the lower G density, will the drive then write at that density?  If so, what about  H pre-initialized tapes?  A cheap Alpha running V7.3x, or an alternate OS  root on the 4100?    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 20:13:55 +0100 & From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>- Subject: Re: UPS/Power conditioning questions , Message-ID: <39oqerF60ronlU1@individual.net>   w_tom wrote:   Repetitive tedium.   Troll or 'bot?   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Mar 05 17:28:41 EST) From: cook@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (George Cook) - Subject: Re: UPS/Power conditioning questions ! Message-ID: <sa4USvgQ24Qq@wvnvms>   N In article <4236D292.66607FD7@hotmail.com>, w_tom <w_tom1@hotmail.com> writes:  = This is my last response since, as has been pointed out, this < discussion has become tedious.  BTW, sorry if top posting is) bothering anyone; I normally bottom post.   # "Sufficient" has two meanings here:   +     1. sufficient to meet code requirements   7     2. sufficient to provide an effective earth ground    @ The cold water pipe is quite sufficient in all aspects in regard< to meaning #2.  It is a very effective earth ground normallyB providing less than 3 ohms resistance.  The supplemental, required> for nothing more than reliability purposes, is quite likely to> have a higher resistance (up to 25 ohms as permitted by code).A Having a higher resistance means the supplemental provides little 8 of value to the grounding system other than as a backup.  = Yes, the code requirement that the cold water pipe be part of A the ground system is also for safety purposes.  I recently worked C on a mobile home that had plastic piping except for the underground ? supply line.  The code still required a connection to the metal > supply line even though it provided absolutely no safety value; (at least as far as you are using the word "safety" below).   @ The 1990 code (since changed) permitted that the supplemental beA a metal natural gas line.  Given that metal natural gas lines are ? more often converted to plastic (I had to spend $3000 (sidewalk F replacement, etc.) to convert mine a few years back), the supplemental@ in that case is much more likely to fail than the "primary" cold@ water pipe.  To state the obvious again, the gas line connectionA was there strictly for backup (aka supplemental) purposes in case 3 the primary failed due to human plumbing stupidity.   - In any case, I guess my actual point is that:   A     If someone is currently using a cold water pipe (that has not C     been converted to plastic for at least ten feet underground) as D     their only earth ground, there is no reason to rush out and haveA     expensive electrical work done for either human or transistor ?     safety.  Of course they should have the supplemental put in F     whenever they have other electrical work done as required by code.  @ >   Earthing by some other (approved) method is required whether? > or whether not the cold water pipe is connected.  Even with a = > connection to that cold water pipe, the building still does > > not have a minimally acceptable earthing connection. IOW the4 > cold water pipe is no longer sufficient earthing. 9 > Furthermore, a connection to the pipe is required for a > > completely different reason - to remove electricity from the< > pipe.  That connection to cold water pipe is no longer for- > earthing but is essential for human safety.  > 9 >   Now if the code did not list the pipe as a 'possible' @ > (supplemental but insufficient) earthing method, then the pipe: > would be installed with an inline electrical insulator. ; > Clearly the code does not want nor demand that electrical > > insulator.  Why?  Code says the pipe can also supplement the@ > earthing system.  Pipe is not sufficient to earth the building > - since 1990.  > 9 >   Furthermore, this cold water pipe discussion is again > > irrelevant to the topic.  A safety ground to that cold water? > pipe - for human safety - has nothing to do with this topic - ! > earthing for transistor safety.  > 9 >   Earthing is the one and only essential component in a ; > transient protection system. The essential component that ? > plug-in protectors (such as the UPS) avoid discussing.   Some ; > systems don't even need a protector to provide transistor > > protection.  Others use protectors to make a connection from? > that incoming utility to single point earth ground.  That UPS @ > must avoid this discussion, completely, to hype on half truths@ > (to get myth purveyors to recommend) their product as hardware@ > protection.  No earth ground means no effective protection.  A@ > surge protector is effective - when?  I must make a 'less than= > 10 foot connection' to single point earth ground.  The cold 4 > water pipe is completely irrelevant to this topic. > = >   Does your building have a sufficient ground?  If it does, ; > then it will meet post 1990 NEC requirements.  Those with 6 > older buildings need inspect and maybe enhance their@ > building's earthing system - whether the cold water pipe is or > is not used for earthing.  >  > George Cook wrote:P >> In article <42356826.914B2DD@hotmail.com>, w_tom <w_tom1@hotmail.com> writes:2 >>>   Definition of 'sufficient earthing' has been? >>> misrepresented.  As supplementary books noted, the earthing 6 >>> system is dependent on something that is no longer@ >>> dependable.  Plastic pipe can be used. Plumbers, who have no? >>> concern about things electrical, can do other things.  What > >>> then provides the so critical earthing system?  Cold waterB >>> pipe is no longer acceptable as the earthing system because itB >>> is not reliable.  At best, it is supplementary earthing.  What8 >>> is sufficient earthing?  Something that makes a good@ >>> connection to earth?  NO.  Something that will ALWAYS make aB >>> good earthing connection.  Changing condition resulted in 1990 >>> code changes.  >>  > >> The code people simply noticed a possible failure mode of aC >> perfectly sufficient earthing method and came up with a solution D >> to prevent that failure mode.  All earthing methods have at least> >> one failure mode.  The main failure mode of my parent's rod> >> electrode was having the wire detached from it when cutting= >> the grass.  One of the code's solutions to that particular C >> failure mode is that the wire and rod should have been installed # >> in a more "workman like manner."  >>  A >> By requiring a supplemental electrode for the cold mater pipe, < >> the code simply makes the cold water pipe a more reliable) >> (not more sufficient) earthing method.  >>  A >>>   You are misinterpreting what the code requires. The world's : >>> electrically best earth ground still does not meet NEC< >>> requirements IF that earth ground does not always exist.@ >>> Because earthing is now so critical, then water pipes are noB >>> longer sufficient as the earthing connection.  Yes, cold waterB >>> pipes can supplement the earthing system.  But with or withoutA >>> a connection to cold water pipes, the building still requires B >>> earthing by some other and reliable method. No way around that> >>> fact.  Cold water pipes are not acceptable as the earthing >>> system. B >>> They are not reliable earthing.  Pipes can only supplement the >>> earthing system. >> ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 20:01:28 -0500   From: w_tom <w_tom1@hotmail.com>- Subject: Re: UPS/Power conditioning questions + Message-ID: <42378568.510BDB51@hotmail.com>   =   We are different creatures, George.  When everyone had long 5 since given up, I spent inordinate time and found the ; solutions. Nothing was tedious until the reason for failure 9 has been identified.  Therefore decades ago, the nonsense 6 promoting plug-in UPSes and protectors was identified.  <    Until I had replaced ICs and gotten the thing restored, I; did not know why a failure happened.  Virtually nothing was < worth the time of repair. But in every case, my 'damned if I6 don't solve it' mentality would not let a problem go. = Literally every transient investigated was directly traceable : to how the transient found earth ground.  Some spectacular4 successes (everything damaged except what my designs: protected), a few frustrating failures, and only one never: resolved.  In my book, you are giving up too quickly.  But> then I am an engineer who is not done fixing something until I> also understand *why* it failed. Just making it work was never sufficient.   =   No way around the point of this discussion.  The water pipe > being so completely irrelevant that I don't understand why you9 even keep posting about it.  A surge protector is only as < effective as its earth ground - no matter what color, shape,# or material that water pipe may be.   8   BTW grounding of gas lines varies by jurisdictions.  A= missing earth ground caused electricity to find earth via the > gas meter.  The failing gasket then caused a house explosion. : Just another reason why earth ground is important to human< safety.  In this jurisdiction, safety groundings is required6 to gas lines.  But again, this paragraph is completely' irrelevant to the topic of this thread.    George Cook wrote:? > This is my last response since, as has been pointed out, this > > discussion has become tedious.  BTW, sorry if top posting is+ > bothering anyone; I normally bottom post.  > % > "Sufficient" has two meanings here:  > - >     1. sufficient to meet code requirements  > 8 >     2. sufficient to provide an effective earth ground > B > The cold water pipe is quite sufficient in all aspects in regard> > to meaning #2.  It is a very effective earth ground normallyD > providing less than 3 ohms resistance.  The supplemental, required@ > for nothing more than reliability purposes, is quite likely to@ > have a higher resistance (up to 25 ohms as permitted by code).C > Having a higher resistance means the supplemental provides little : > of value to the grounding system other than as a backup. > ? > Yes, the code requirement that the cold water pipe be part of C > the ground system is also for safety purposes.  I recently worked E > on a mobile home that had plastic piping except for the underground A > supply line.  The code still required a connection to the metal @ > supply line even though it provided absolutely no safety value= > (at least as far as you are using the word "safety" below).  > B > The 1990 code (since changed) permitted that the supplemental beC > a metal natural gas line.  Given that metal natural gas lines are A > more often converted to plastic (I had to spend $3000 (sidewalk H > replacement, etc.) to convert mine a few years back), the supplementalB > in that case is much more likely to fail than the "primary" coldB > water pipe.  To state the obvious again, the gas line connectionC > was there strictly for backup (aka supplemental) purposes in case 5 > the primary failed due to human plumbing stupidity.  > ...    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Mar 2005 18:55:16 -05003 From: Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> % Subject: Warren Sander e-mail address . Message-ID: <mddacp45usb.fsf@panix5.panix.com>  M Warren Sander, would you please send me your e-mail address?  Your posts have N expired off my news server and Google Groups munges addresses (rightfully so).1 We need info on some old DEC marketing materials.    --  L Rich Alderson                                       | /"\ ASCII ribbon     |L news@alderson.users.panix.com                       | \ / campaign against |L "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime."    |  x  HTML mail and    |L                          --Death, of the Endless    | / \ postings         |   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 15:21:15 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> E Subject: [OT]: Details of the compensation package carly(tm) rejected , Message-ID: <4ZadnfM0rPAg3qrfRVn-jg@igs.net>  L http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=738&e=1&u=/nm/20050315/tc_nm/tech
 _apple_ceo_dc    --L OpenVMS - The never advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.149 ************************                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              0|
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