1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 25 Mar 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 167       Contents:P Re: "Access Denied" Error from client connecting to Pathworks Advanced Server 6.: (",) Do You Want To Know For Sure You Are Going To Heaven?@ Re: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration Software for@ Re: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration Software forP Re: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration Software for Alpha to IntegrP Re: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration Software for Alpha to IntegrP Re: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration Software for Alpha to IntegrP Re: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration Software for Alpha to IntegrP RE: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration Software for Alpha to IntegrP Re: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration Software for Alpha to IntegrP RE: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration Software for Alpha to IntegrP RE: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration Software for Alpha to IntegrP Re: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration Software for Alpha to IntegrP Re: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration Software for Alpha to IntegrP Re: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration Software for Alpha to IntegrP RE: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration Software for Alpha to IntegrP Re: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration Software for Alpha to IntegrP Re: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration Software for Alpha to IntegrP Re: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration Software for Alpha to IntegrP Re: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration Software forAlpha to Integri$ Re: Carly's Way - article retracted?$ Re: Carly's Way - article retracted?$ Re: Carly's Way - article retracted?$ Re: Carly's Way - article retracted?$ Re: Carly's Way - article retracted?$ Re: Carly's Way - article retracted?5 Re: DS15 RADEON 7500 hang solved (at least partially) 7 Re: How to load a shared img without defining a symbol? 7 Re: Need help to port VAX code to Alpha and to Itaninum 7 Re: Need help to port VAX code to Alpha and to Itaninum . New Customer Benchmark Brochure Info Available" Re: Remote queue on a linux server" Re: Remote queue on a linux server3 Re: Status bits for OFFLINE and MntVerifyTimeout ??  tbk$i64_symbolize P Re: TCPIP 5.4: obsolete information in HELP, what are new defaults (clusteralias5 Re: TCPIP: why can an MX record not point to a CNAME? 5 Re: TCPIP: why can an MX record not point to a CNAME? 5 Re: TCPIP: why can an MX record not point to a CNAME?  VAX 4000 battery Re: VAX 4000 battery Re: VAX 4000 battery Re: VAX 4000 battery Re: VAX 4000 batteryB Re: [Java JNI] How to load a shared img without defining a symbol?B Re: [Java JNI] How to load a shared img without defining a symbol?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2005 11:51:09 -0800/ From: "ropegun1@yahoo.com" <ropegun1@yahoo.com> Y Subject: Re: "Access Denied" Error from client connecting to Pathworks Advanced Server 6. C Message-ID: <1111693869.714347.170960@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>    Paul, @ Sure enough after looking in the security audits I am getting anD "unknown username or bad password error". On the client side the SetB Logon command was passing a username and password.  We removed theA password and it connected right up!  This has really been quite a F learning experience for me even though it was such a simple fix. Thank all of you for your help!      Heath Harber Special Metals Corp.   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2005 18:47:52 -0800 From: Ron038655@yahoo.com C Subject: (",) Do You Want To Know For Sure You Are Going To Heaven? C Message-ID: <1111718872.819401.319720@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   8 http://www.want-to-be-sure.blogspot.com << Click On Link   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2005 22:00:12 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) I Subject: Re: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration Software for 3 Message-ID: <hN2b4F2BeBtt@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Z In article <1147271dpne701d@corp.supernews.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:   > J > Ok folks, help out a senile old fool.  Two days ago I was going through I > the last several months saved e-mails, deleting those I didn't think I  F > had any more use for.  One was from Ann ??????, the HP exec we were H > discussing concerning the webcast.  So now I can't remember her name. C > Give me a name, cause I think she needs this stuffed in her face.  >    	Ann Livermore.    				Rob    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 06:12:24 GMT + From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) I Subject: Re: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration Software for 7 Message-ID: <cZN0e.38669$8D.30117@tornado.texas.rr.com>   ( Dave Froble (davef@tsoft-inc.com) wrote: : J : Ok folks, help out a senile old fool.  Two days ago I was going through I : the last several months saved e-mails, deleting those I didn't think I  F : had any more use for.  One was from Ann ??????, the HP exec we were H : discussing concerning the webcast.  So now I can't remember her name. C : Give me a name, cause I think she needs this stuffed in her face.  :  : Dave     Ann Livermore ?   :    http://www.forbes.com/home/2002/12/05/cz_qh_1205hp.html;    Forbes.com: The New HP Way: World's Cheapest Consultants      /   "The New HP Way: World's Cheapest Consultants '    Quentin Hardy, 12.05.02, 11:26 AM ET   ?    NEW YORK - Tech giant Hewlett-Packard has seen the future of F    technology consulting. It's on the other side of the globe and it's    really, really cheap.  G    "We're trying to move everything we can offshore," HP Services chief I    Ann Livermore told Wall Street analysts at a meeting Wednesday. "We're H    aggressively realigning our resources." Short term, that means addingI    to the software and services personnel HP (nyse: HPQ - news - people ) H    already has in India. Further out, HP expects China to also turn into     a major consulting center..."     --Jerry Leslie9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 19:45:30 GMT % From: "Bob Lail" <Robert.Lail@hp.com> Y Subject: Re: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration Software for Alpha to Integr 2 Message-ID: <uNE0e.2216$yq1.1658@news.cpqcorp.net>  : "Michael D. Ober" <mdo.@.wakeassoc..com> wrote in message ( news:FqD0e.18$j27.570@news.uswest.net...J > So the Alpha processor has no future.  Too bad - it's a good processor.  > It9 > makes me wonder if I'll ever get 8.2 on our Alpha 1200.  >  > Mike Ober. > 7 > "Mark Schafer" <mark.schafer@hp.com> wrote in message . > news:r4C0e.2190$ak1.2095@news.cpqcorp.net...> >> The link on the OpenVMS homepage leads to the URL, which is? >> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/omsva/omsais.html  >>% >> susan_skonetski@hotmail.com wrote: J >> > Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration Software for Alpha to >> > Integrity Servers >> >K >> > The production release of the software for translating Alpha images to J >> > IA64 compatible images is now available for download from the OpenVMSK >> > website.  HP OpenVMS Migration Software for Alpha to Integrity Servers E >> > (OMSAIS, aka "binary translator") software kit and documentation + >> > are offered at no charge to customers.  >> >L >> > The website for the software and documentation is at the following url:, >> > HP OpenVMS systems - Migration Software >> >H >> > For this initial release, the Translated Image Environment (TIE) isI >> > also available on the website, to be installed separately on OpenVMS K >> > Version 8.2 target systems.  In a future OpenVMS release, the TIE will J >> > be included in the operating system.  The translator itself will alsoD >> > be distributed with operating system media for a future OpenVMS
 >> > release.  >> >L >> > Software support is available until May 31.  After that point, problems. >> > will be addressed on "best effort" basis. >> >F >> > Any comments, issues, problems or questions should be sent to the/ >> > following account: omsais-feedback@hp.com.  >> > >> >> >  >  >   G   Why do you say that?  OpenVMS V8.2 for AlphaServers is available and  I shipping. The AlphaServer 1200 is one of the supported platforms. Future  C versions will continue to support AlphaServers until at least 2010.   	 \Bob Lail    --  
 Robert G Lail  Pre-Sales Solution Consultant  Corporate Accounts Hewlett-Packard Company 
 Merrimack, NH       ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 15:31:28 -0700 . From: "Michael D. Ober" <mdo.@.wakeassoc..com>Y Subject: Re: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration Software for Alpha to Integr / Message-ID: <4dH0e.40$j27.1029@news.uswest.net>   I Putting this type of porting in plus HPs apparent lack of support for the L Alpha processor leads me to believe Alpha is a dead end chip.  We're runningH OpenVMS 7.3-2 on our Alpha Server 1200 and have a software contract that; includes new versions of VMS, yet haven't received VMS 8.2.    Mike.     C "Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in message & news:424338f9$1@NEWS.LANGSTOEGER.AT...? > In article <uNE0e.2216$yq1.1658@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Bob Lail"  <Robert.Lail@hp.com> writes:I > >  Why do you say that?  OpenVMS V8.2 for AlphaServers is available and K > >shipping. The AlphaServer 1200 is one of the supported platforms. Future F > >versions will continue to support AlphaServers until at least 2010. > K > Maybe because he might not order it, because his boss never heard of VMS, # > or heard it died many years ago ?  > B > Why do you think, he himself believes that VMS (Alpha) is dead ? >  > --   > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER ' > Network and OpenVMS system specialist  > E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atH > A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist >    ------------------------------   Date: 24 Mar 2005 23:01:28 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)Y Subject: Re: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration Software for Alpha to Integr , Message-ID: <3agv68F6akvkgU1@individual.net>  , In article <424338f9$1@news.langstoeger.at>,9 	peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes: \ > In article <uNE0e.2216$yq1.1658@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Bob Lail" <Robert.Lail@hp.com> writes:I >>  Why do you say that?  OpenVMS V8.2 for AlphaServers is available and  K >>shipping. The AlphaServer 1200 is one of the supported platforms. Future  E >>versions will continue to support AlphaServers until at least 2010.  > K > Maybe because he might not order it, because his boss never heard of VMS, # > or heard it died many years ago ?  > B > Why do you think, he himself believes that VMS (Alpha) is dead ? >     ? So I'm sitting in a class on computer security and in the front ? of the room the instructor is talkiing about how VMS died about @ the same time Digital did.  The company was bought by Compaq butC VMS was already dead.  And then it was bought by some other company B who's name he couldn't recall.  So I piped in that the company was@ HP and that VMS was still going strong.  "Oh no." he said.  "VMSE is dead.  Used for nothing but a few legacy (there's that word again) F applications.  You never see it mentioned in the trade press anymore."D So I said what about things like JStars?  And he said, "Yeah, JStars and other legacy application."  > So what does this mean in the real world?  The instructor also@ said at another point in the class that he does this class about= 50 times a year.  Let's see, 50 classes, 20 people per class. @ Senior NCO's, Warrant Officers, Lieutenants, Captains, Colonels.< And then there are the Allied Officers from other countries.B What was it someone said not so long ago about DOD still being one= of those major VMS customers?  How long do you expect that to ? continue when the decision makers all learn about it like this? C (No, I am n ot going to fight with the instructor to try and change * his mind.  I'm just another student here.)   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2005 17:44:24 -0600+ From: young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) Y Subject: Re: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration Software for Alpha to Integr 3 Message-ID: <XQcGlXJI8YcT@eisner.encompasserve.org>   W In article <3agv68F6akvkgU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: . > In article <424338f9$1@news.langstoeger.at>,; > 	peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes: ] >> In article <uNE0e.2216$yq1.1658@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Bob Lail" <Robert.Lail@hp.com> writes: J >>>  Why do you say that?  OpenVMS V8.2 for AlphaServers is available and L >>>shipping. The AlphaServer 1200 is one of the supported platforms. Future F >>>versions will continue to support AlphaServers until at least 2010. >>  L >> Maybe because he might not order it, because his boss never heard of VMS,$ >> or heard it died many years ago ? >>  C >> Why do you think, he himself believes that VMS (Alpha) is dead ?  >>   > A > So I'm sitting in a class on computer security and in the front A > of the room the instructor is talkiing about how VMS died about B > the same time Digital did.  The company was bought by Compaq butE > VMS was already dead.  And then it was bought by some other company D > who's name he couldn't recall.  So I piped in that the company wasB > HP and that VMS was still going strong.  "Oh no." he said.  "VMSG > is dead.  Used for nothing but a few legacy (there's that word again) H > applications.  You never see it mentioned in the trade press anymore."F > So I said what about things like JStars?  And he said, "Yeah, JStars  > and other legacy application." >   < 	You could have mentioned that a good deal of cellular phone? 	billing back-ends are VMS based, pointed out that is a rapidly A 	growing niche VMS is in.  On one hand, I would have acknowledged = 	VMS lives in niches but I would have also pointed out it was > 	quite strong in those niches (health care, cell phones, funds 	transfers, manufacturing).   @ > So what does this mean in the real world?  The instructor alsoB > said at another point in the class that he does this class about? > 50 times a year.  Let's see, 50 classes, 20 people per class. B > Senior NCO's, Warrant Officers, Lieutenants, Captains, Colonels.> > And then there are the Allied Officers from other countries.D > What was it someone said not so long ago about DOD still being one? > of those major VMS customers?  How long do you expect that to A > continue when the decision makers all learn about it like this? E > (No, I am n ot going to fight with the instructor to try and change , > his mind.  I'm just another student here.)  > 	He won't change his mind.  It's tough winning a pissing match 	in a classroom.    1 	A friend of mine went for Security certification > 	and his experience was the exact opposite of yours.  He knows: 	me as a "VMS guru"/bigot.  He told me with excitement how< 	his instructor went on and on about VMS (and no one in that= 	class was doing VMS - Unix and Windoz weenies).   On the one = 	hand, you have his instructor that knows security inside/out < 	and was holding up VMS as a paradigm, and on the other hand< 	you have your instructor.  You get good instructors and you? 	get some that.. well... how about those Eagles!  They're going 5 	to win the Superbowl - this is the year!  Yeah baby!    				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 20:57:12 -0500 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> Y Subject: RE: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration Software for Alpha to Integr R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB59538D@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----$ > From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu=20A > [mailto:bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu] On Behalf Of Bill Gunshannon  > Sent: March 24, 2005 6:01 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com A > Subject: Re: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration=20 ) > Software for Alpha to Integrity Servers  >=20. > In article <424338f9$1@news.langstoeger.at>,; > 	peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes: > > > In article <uNE0e.2216$yq1.1658@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Bob=20$ > Lail" <Robert.Lail@hp.com> writes:? > >>  Why do you say that?  OpenVMS V8.2 for AlphaServers is=20  > available and=20= > >>shipping. The AlphaServer 1200 is one of the supported=20  > platforms. Future=20G > >>versions will continue to support AlphaServers until at least 2010.  > >=20B > > Maybe because he might not order it, because his boss never=20 > heard of VMS, % > > or heard it died many years ago ?  > >=20D > > Why do you think, he himself believes that VMS (Alpha) is dead ? > > =20  >=20A > So I'm sitting in a class on computer security and in the front A > of the room the instructor is talkiing about how VMS died about B > the same time Digital did.  The company was bought by Compaq butE > VMS was already dead.  And then it was bought by some other company D > who's name he couldn't recall.  So I piped in that the company wasB > HP and that VMS was still going strong.  "Oh no." he said.  "VMSG > is dead.  Used for nothing but a few legacy (there's that word again) H > applications.  You never see it mentioned in the trade press anymore."F > So I said what about things like JStars?  And he said, "Yeah, JStars  > and other legacy application." >=20@ > So what does this mean in the real world?  The instructor alsoB > said at another point in the class that he does this class about? > 50 times a year.  Let's see, 50 classes, 20 people per class. B > Senior NCO's, Warrant Officers, Lieutenants, Captains, Colonels.> > And then there are the Allied Officers from other countries.D > What was it someone said not so long ago about DOD still being one? > of those major VMS customers?  How long do you expect that to A > continue when the decision makers all learn about it like this? E > (No, I am n ot going to fight with the instructor to try and change , > his mind.  I'm just another student here.) >=20 > bill >=20  E Next time you meet an instructor like that, ask him how many years of F real IT experience he has had outside of his narrow little cube. Don'tB just sit back and not say anything - that will only encourage thisF person to continue spouting crap when he needs to be put in his place.F At the very least ensure his Mgmt knows via feedback that his personalE beliefs should not be preached to Customers who might take offence at  his soapboxing.   C Any instructor who says controversial things like that in any class H *about any OS* is obviously an instructor who has not spent much time inG the real world of IT. If the instructor had spent any time in real life E IT, they would know how controversial making statements like that can  be.=20  @ Microsoft now refers to its own Windows 2000 *and* Windows NT asG "legacy" versions, so does this instructor think Microsoft is legacy as  well?   E Let me guess, the instructor was about 25, had a pocket protector and * wore black rimmed glasses as well - right?   ROTFL...  G Bottom line is that like Microsoft, all platforms have legacy versions, D but that does not make the entire platform "legacy". Mainframes have@ legacy versions but some of their other capabilities can only beC considered very leading edge. Same goes for Solaris, HP-UX and yes,  OpenVMS as well.=20   G OS popularity rises and falls. A few years ago, some Customers believed E Solaris was the way to go because that was what Oracle was saying and G they invested lots of $'s to get their. Now these same Cust's are being @ told by Oracle "no. no .. You should go to Linux..." - so shouldF Customers blindly follow again or should they think for themselves and, do whats right for their companies business?  E Next time you meet an instructor like that point him to the following : testimonial benchmark article which just became available:  ? http://h71028.www7.hp.com/enterprise/cache/79977-0-0-0-121.html ; (click on HP ISE article on right side "HP ISE White Paper: 8 International Securities Exchange scales off the chart")   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------   Date: 25 Mar 2005 02:20:40 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)Y Subject: Re: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration Software for Alpha to Integr , Message-ID: <3aharnF69bs4pU1@individual.net>  R In article <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB59538D@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>,* 	"Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> writes: >  >> -----Original Message----- % >> From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu=20 B >> [mailto:bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu] On Behalf Of Bill Gunshannon >> Sent: March 24, 2005 6:01 PM  >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComB >> Subject: Re: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration=20* >> Software for Alpha to Integrity Servers >>=20 / >> In article <424338f9$1@news.langstoeger.at>, < >> 	peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:? >> > In article <uNE0e.2216$yq1.1658@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Bob=20 % >> Lail" <Robert.Lail@hp.com> writes: @ >> >>  Why do you say that?  OpenVMS V8.2 for AlphaServers is=20 >> available and=20 > >> >>shipping. The AlphaServer 1200 is one of the supported=20 >> platforms. Future=20 H >> >>versions will continue to support AlphaServers until at least 2010. >> >=20 C >> > Maybe because he might not order it, because his boss never=20  >> heard of VMS,& >> > or heard it died many years ago ? >> >=20 E >> > Why do you think, he himself believes that VMS (Alpha) is dead ?  >> > =20 >>=20 B >> So I'm sitting in a class on computer security and in the frontB >> of the room the instructor is talkiing about how VMS died aboutC >> the same time Digital did.  The company was bought by Compaq but F >> VMS was already dead.  And then it was bought by some other companyE >> who's name he couldn't recall.  So I piped in that the company was C >> HP and that VMS was still going strong.  "Oh no." he said.  "VMS H >> is dead.  Used for nothing but a few legacy (there's that word again)I >> applications.  You never see it mentioned in the trade press anymore." G >> So I said what about things like JStars?  And he said, "Yeah, JStars ! >> and other legacy application."  >>=20 A >> So what does this mean in the real world?  The instructor also C >> said at another point in the class that he does this class about @ >> 50 times a year.  Let's see, 50 classes, 20 people per class.C >> Senior NCO's, Warrant Officers, Lieutenants, Captains, Colonels. ? >> And then there are the Allied Officers from other countries. E >> What was it someone said not so long ago about DOD still being one @ >> of those major VMS customers?  How long do you expect that toB >> continue when the decision makers all learn about it like this?F >> (No, I am n ot going to fight with the instructor to try and change- >> his mind.  I'm just another student here.)  >>=20  >> bill  >>=20  > G > Next time you meet an instructor like that, ask him how many years of H > real IT experience he has had outside of his narrow little cube. Don'tD > just sit back and not say anything - that will only encourage thisH > person to continue spouting crap when he needs to be put in his place.  D Kerry, let me know when you get back to the real world.  The student> is never in a position to "put the instructor in his place".    H > At the very least ensure his Mgmt knows via feedback that his personalG > beliefs should not be preached to Customers who might take offence at  > his soapboxing.   C I'm not the customer.  The customer is DOD who is perfectly pleased  with his performance.    > E > Any instructor who says controversial things like that in any class J > *about any OS* is obviously an instructor who has not spent much time inI > the real world of IT. If the instructor had spent any time in real life G > IT, they would know how controversial making statements like that can  > be.=20  B There is nothing controversial about it at all.  He stated it as aE fact and the majority will accept it as such and go on to make future C decisions based on that information.  Note, that one of the reasons G given for this was that VMS never gets mentioned in the trade journals. C Whre have we heard this before?  And who is the only one capable of  doing something about it?    > B > Microsoft now refers to its own Windows 2000 *and* Windows NT asI > "legacy" versions, so does this instructor think Microsoft is legacy as  > well?   F Of course not.  But he did spend a considerable amount of time talkingH about the insecurity of Microsoft products as this is a Systems SecurityF and Management course.  But we're not concerned with Microsoft.  We'reD concerned with VMS and the popular conceptions about it's existence.   > G > Let me guess, the instructor was about 25, had a pocket protector and , > wore black rimmed glasses as well - right?  H Hardly.  40-something with 20 years of IT experience within DOD and then( continued work with DOD as a contractor.   > 
 > ROTFL...  @ Isn't that rather hard to do with your head in the sand?  In any6 case, it is not the correct response to the situation.   > I > Bottom line is that like Microsoft, all platforms have legacy versions,   C Kerry, it's not about Microsoft.  It's about people's perception of C VMS and Compaq's and now HP's refusal to do anything about changing  that perception.  F > but that does not make the entire platform "legacy". Mainframes haveB > legacy versions but some of their other capabilities can only beE > considered very leading edge. Same goes for Solaris, HP-UX and yes,  > OpenVMS as well.=20  > I > OS popularity rises and falls. A few years ago, some Customers believed G > Solaris was the way to go because that was what Oracle was saying and I > they invested lots of $'s to get their. Now these same Cust's are being B > told by Oracle "no. no .. You should go to Linux..." - so shouldH > Customers blindly follow again or should they think for themselves and. > do whats right for their companies business? > G > Next time you meet an instructor like that point him to the following < > testimonial benchmark article which just became available:  B To what end?  He is not going to spend any time trying to convinceB himself that he was wrong.  He is perfectly happy with his currentB perception of the state of VMS.  Your employer needs to be the one@ correcting this perception.  In the meantime, another 20 future E decision-makers will be leaving here in about 4 weeks with the notion A implanted in their heads that VMS is dead. (Realizing, of course, B that none of them have a clue what VMS is, but yi can imagine what; their mindset will be if it ever comes up in a briefing.)      bill     --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2005 20:35:44 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Y Subject: RE: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration Software for Alpha to Integr 3 Message-ID: <hXTRHy0xI8n6@eisner.encompasserve.org>   | In article <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB59538D@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> writes:  I > OS popularity rises and falls. A few years ago, some Customers believed G > Solaris was the way to go because that was what Oracle was saying and I > they invested lots of $'s to get their. Now these same Cust's are being B > told by Oracle "no. no .. You should go to Linux..." - so shouldH > Customers blindly follow again or should they think for themselves and. > do whats right for their companies business?  C Those choices successively seem designed to maximize the percentage . of customer money paid to the database vendor.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 22:45:18 -0500 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> Y Subject: RE: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration Software for Alpha to Integr R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB59539A@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----$ > From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu=20A > [mailto:bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu] On Behalf Of Bill Gunshannon  > Sent: March 24, 2005 9:21 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com A > Subject: Re: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration=20 ) > Software for Alpha to Integrity Servers  >=20 > In article=20 @ > <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB59538D@tayexc19.americas.cpqc > orp.net>, , > 	"Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> writes: > >=20 > >> -----Original Message----- ) > >> From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu=3D20 D > >> [mailto:bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu] On Behalf Of Bill Gunshannon! > >> Sent: March 24, 2005 6:01 PM  > >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComF > >> Subject: Re: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration=3D20, > >> Software for Alpha to Integrity Servers	 > >>=3D20 1 > >> In article <424338f9$1@news.langstoeger.at>, > > >> 	peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:C > >> > In article <uNE0e.2216$yq1.1658@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Bob=3D20 ' > >> Lail" <Robert.Lail@hp.com> writes: D > >> >>  Why do you say that?  OpenVMS V8.2 for AlphaServers is=3D20 > >> available and=3D20 B > >> >>shipping. The AlphaServer 1200 is one of the supported=3D20 > >> platforms. Future=3D20 A > >> >>versions will continue to support AlphaServers until at=20 
 > least 2010.  > >> >=3D20 G > >> > Maybe because he might not order it, because his boss never=3D20  > >> heard of VMS,( > >> > or heard it died many years ago ? > >> >=3D20 G > >> > Why do you think, he himself believes that VMS (Alpha) is dead ?  > >> > =3D20	 > >>=3D20 D > >> So I'm sitting in a class on computer security and in the frontD > >> of the room the instructor is talkiing about how VMS died aboutE > >> the same time Digital did.  The company was bought by Compaq but H > >> VMS was already dead.  And then it was bought by some other companyG > >> who's name he couldn't recall.  So I piped in that the company was E > >> HP and that VMS was still going strong.  "Oh no." he said.  "VMS A > >> is dead.  Used for nothing but a few legacy (there's that=20 
 > word again) > > >> applications.  You never see it mentioned in the trade=20 > press anymore." > > >> So I said what about things like JStars?  And he said,=20 > "Yeah, JStars # > >> and other legacy application." 	 > >>=3D20 C > >> So what does this mean in the real world?  The instructor also E > >> said at another point in the class that he does this class about B > >> 50 times a year.  Let's see, 50 classes, 20 people per class.E > >> Senior NCO's, Warrant Officers, Lieutenants, Captains, Colonels. A > >> And then there are the Allied Officers from other countries. G > >> What was it someone said not so long ago about DOD still being one B > >> of those major VMS customers?  How long do you expect that toD > >> continue when the decision makers all learn about it like this?H > >> (No, I am n ot going to fight with the instructor to try and change/ > >> his mind.  I'm just another student here.) 	 > >>=3D20 	 > >> bill 	 > >>=3D20  > >=20> > > Next time you meet an instructor like that, ask him how=20 > many years of A > > real IT experience he has had outside of his narrow little=20 
 > cube. Don't F > > just sit back and not say anything - that will only encourage thisB > > person to continue spouting crap when he needs to be put in=20 > his place. >=20F > Kerry, let me know when you get back to the real world.  The studentB > is never in a position to "put the instructor in his place". =20 >=20  B Bill - give me a break. Do you mean to tell me that a room full ofG seasoned IT Pro's is going to be bashful about speaking their mind? Yes # sir. No sir. You must be right sir.   @ > > At the very least ensure his Mgmt knows via feedback that=20 > his personalA > > beliefs should not be preached to Customers who might take=20  > offence at > > his soapboxing.  >=20E > I'm not the customer.  The customer is DOD who is perfectly pleased2 > with his performance.n >=20  G Well, of course. According to you, no students are complaining that hisrH personal soapboxing was very unprofessional, so how would they even know there might be a problem?   E I also take issue with your view that just because an instructor says F something that seasoned students take it for the gospel truth. You areF really saying the IT students are sheep and I find that really hard to believe.   > >=20G > > Any instructor who says controversial things like that in any classoB > > *about any OS* is obviously an instructor who has not spent=20 > much time inA > > the real world of IT. If the instructor had spent any time=20n > in real life> > > IT, they would know how controversial making statements=20 > like that cano > > be.=3D20 >=20D > There is nothing controversial about it at all.  He stated it as aG > fact and the majority will accept it as such and go on to make futureoE > decisions based on that information.  Note, that one of the reasonsiB > given for this was that VMS never gets mentioned in the trade=20 > journals.iE > Whre have we heard this before?  And who is the only one capable of  > doing something about it?r >=20 > >=20D > > Microsoft now refers to its own Windows 2000 *and* Windows NT asA > > "legacy" versions, so does this instructor think Microsoft=20  > is legacy as	 > > well?r >=20H > Of course not.  But he did spend a considerable amount of time talking< > about the insecurity of Microsoft products as this is a=20 > Systems SecurityH > and Management course.  But we're not concerned with Microsoft.  We'reF > concerned with VMS and the popular conceptions about it's existence. >=20 > >=20> > > Let me guess, the instructor was about 25, had a pocket=20 > protector and . > > wore black rimmed glasses as well - right? >=20@ > Hardly.  40-something with 20 years of IT experience within=20 > DOD and then* > continued work with DOD as a contractor. >=20 > >=20 > > ROTFL... >=20B > Isn't that rather hard to do with your head in the sand?  In any8 > case, it is not the correct response to the situation. >=20  C I disagree. You want HP to advertize OpenVMS more. Fine. I may evenv agree with you.=20  @ However, but by not speaking up when you disagree with someone'sF statements because you are afraid to speak your mind, it is really you) who are putting your head in the sand.=20o   > >=20= > > Bottom line is that like Microsoft, all platforms have=20C > legacy versions, >=20E > Kerry, it's not about Microsoft.  It's about people's perception of E > VMS and Compaq's and now HP's refusal to do anything about changing] > that perception. >=20H > > but that does not make the entire platform "legacy". Mainframes haveD > > legacy versions but some of their other capabilities can only beG > > considered very leading edge. Same goes for Solaris, HP-UX and yes,g > > OpenVMS as well.=3D20h > >=20; > > OS popularity rises and falls. A few years ago, some=20o > Customers believedA > > Solaris was the way to go because that was what Oracle was=20r > saying and= > > they invested lots of $'s to get their. Now these same=20e > Cust's are beingD > > told by Oracle "no. no .. You should go to Linux..." - so should> > > Customers blindly follow again or should they think for=20 > themselves and0 > > do whats right for their companies business? > >=20B > > Next time you meet an instructor like that point him to the=20 > followingp> > > testimonial benchmark article which just became available: >=20D > To what end?  He is not going to spend any time trying to convinceD > himself that he was wrong.  He is perfectly happy with his currentD > perception of the state of VMS.  Your employer needs to be the one! > correcting this perception. =20s  H That's crap - yes, an ISV has an obligation to promote its products, butA if you believe in a product, then should you not also defend thatu/ product when someone is obviously spouting fud?M  % In the meantime, another 20 future=204G > decision-makers will be leaving here in about 4 weeks with the notionpC > implanted in their heads that VMS is dead. (Realizing, of course,lD > that none of them have a clue what VMS is, but yi can imagine what? > their mindset will be if it ever comes up in a briefing.) =20i >=20  H Again, I do not share your view that seasoned IT Pro's are sheep who can not think for themselves.e   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660h Fax: 613-591-4477a kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2005 22:20:21 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)gY Subject: Re: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration Software for Alpha to Integrt3 Message-ID: <zm9N$a2KWX$S@eisner.encompasserve.org>d  W In article <3aharnF69bs4pU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:n  D > There is nothing controversial about it at all.  He stated it as aG > fact and the majority will accept it as such and go on to make futureeE > decisions based on that information.  Note, that one of the reasons I > given for this was that VMS never gets mentioned in the trade journals.mE > Whre have we heard this before?  And who is the only one capable ofC > doing something about it?    VMS customers.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 22:39:23 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>sY Subject: Re: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration Software for Alpha to Integrs0 Message-ID: <11471cfg5bns7fa@corp.supernews.com>   Rob Young wrote:Y > In article <3agv68F6akvkgU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:e > . >>In article <424338f9$1@news.langstoeger.at>,; >>	peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:d >>] >>>In article <uNE0e.2216$yq1.1658@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Bob Lail" <Robert.Lail@hp.com> writes:c >>>iJ >>>> Why do you say that?  OpenVMS V8.2 for AlphaServers is available and M >>>>shipping. The AlphaServer 1200 is one of the supported platforms. Future -G >>>>versions will continue to support AlphaServers until at least 2010.o >>>LL >>>Maybe because he might not order it, because his boss never heard of VMS,$ >>>or heard it died many years ago ? >>>EC >>>Why do you think, he himself believes that VMS (Alpha) is dead ?s >>>  >>A >>So I'm sitting in a class on computer security and in the fronteA >>of the room the instructor is talkiing about how VMS died about B >>the same time Digital did.  The company was bought by Compaq butE >>VMS was already dead.  And then it was bought by some other companysD >>who's name he couldn't recall.  So I piped in that the company wasB >>HP and that VMS was still going strong.  "Oh no." he said.  "VMSG >>is dead.  Used for nothing but a few legacy (there's that word again)aH >>applications.  You never see it mentioned in the trade press anymore."F >>So I said what about things like JStars?  And he said, "Yeah, JStars  >>and other legacy application." >> >  > > > 	You could have mentioned that a good deal of cellular phoneA > 	billing back-ends are VMS based, pointed out that is a rapidlyrC > 	growing niche VMS is in.  On one hand, I would have acknowledgeds? > 	VMS lives in niches but I would have also pointed out it wasc@ > 	quite strong in those niches (health care, cell phones, funds > 	transfers, manufacturing).> >  > @ >>So what does this mean in the real world?  The instructor alsoB >>said at another point in the class that he does this class about? >>50 times a year.  Let's see, 50 classes, 20 people per class.rB >>Senior NCO's, Warrant Officers, Lieutenants, Captains, Colonels.> >>And then there are the Allied Officers from other countries.D >>What was it someone said not so long ago about DOD still being one? >>of those major VMS customers?  How long do you expect that tolA >>continue when the decision makers all learn about it like this?sE >>(No, I am n ot going to fight with the instructor to try and changer, >>his mind.  I'm just another student here.)  I Arguing with an instructor in his class is a losing proposition.  If you uG were so inclined, you could meet with him privately and straighten him hD out.  That's if he will accept the information.  Some people have a I vested interest in badmouthing VMS.  Unix and Windows types.  They can't  E beat it, so they try to get rid of it.  Sort of like Intel and Alpha.o   Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 22:43:11 -0500-' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Y Subject: Re: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration Software for Alpha to IntegrP0 Message-ID: <11471jif1i6o2c9@corp.supernews.com>   Main, Kerry wrote:  G > Next time you meet an instructor like that, ask him how many years ofrH > real IT experience he has had outside of his narrow little cube. Don'tD > just sit back and not say anything - that will only encourage thisH > person to continue spouting crap when he needs to be put in his place.H > At the very least ensure his Mgmt knows via feedback that his personalG > beliefs should not be preached to Customers who might take offence at. > his soapboxing.0 > E > Any instructor who says controversial things like that in any class:J > *about any OS* is obviously an instructor who has not spent much time inI > the real world of IT. If the instructor had spent any time in real liferG > IT, they would know how controversial making statements like that can. > be.   G Are you nuts?  You could approach the individual privately.  You might   take it to his surperiors.  F Cause a problem in the class, and you're the problem.  That's not the  place for such.    Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 23:01:13 -0500 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>SY Subject: RE: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration Software for Alpha to Integr R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB59539B@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----3 > From: Dave Froble [mailto:davef@tsoft-inc.com]=20e > Sent: March 24, 2005 10:43 PMd > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com8A > Subject: Re: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration=20N? > Software for Alpha to Integrity Servers Alpha to Integrity=20p$ > Servers Alpha to Integrity Servers >=20 > Main, Kerry wrote: >=20> > > Next time you meet an instructor like that, ask him how=20 > many years of2A > > real IT experience he has had outside of his narrow little=20t
 > cube. Don't F > > just sit back and not say anything - that will only encourage thisB > > person to continue spouting crap when he needs to be put in=20 > his place.@ > > At the very least ensure his Mgmt knows via feedback that=20 > his personalA > > beliefs should not be preached to Customers who might take=20f > offence at > > his soapboxing.g > >=20G > > Any instructor who says controversial things like that in any class B > > *about any OS* is obviously an instructor who has not spent=20 > much time inA > > the real world of IT. If the instructor had spent any time=20P > in real life> > > IT, they would know how controversial making statements=20 > like that canf
 > > be.=20 >=20A > Are you nuts?  You could approach the individual privately. =20e > You might=20 > take it to his surperiors. >=20J > Cause a problem in the class, and you're the problem.  That's not the=20 > place for such.e >=20 > Dave  A I disagree. This is not specific to OpenVMS. It is about having a 4 professional attitude when you are teaching a class.  G Its one thing for the instructor to be bad mouthing another vendor overa> a coffee break (still very unprofessional mind you), but if anD instructor strays from the material in front of the class to do someI personal soap boxing, then he/she is fair game to be challenged on it.=20   B This assumes of course, the students are not afraid to speak their minds.   Regardst    
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660n Fax: 613-591-4477) kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 22:53:33 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>sY Subject: Re: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration Software for Alpha to Integr 0 Message-ID: <1147271dpne701d@corp.supernews.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:  A > So I'm sitting in a class on computer security and in the frontXA > of the room the instructor is talkiing about how VMS died aboutUB > the same time Digital did.  The company was bought by Compaq butE > VMS was already dead.  And then it was bought by some other companytD > who's name he couldn't recall.  So I piped in that the company wasB > HP and that VMS was still going strong.  "Oh no." he said.  "VMSG > is dead.  Used for nothing but a few legacy (there's that word again)iH > applications.  You never see it mentioned in the trade press anymore."F > So I said what about things like JStars?  And he said, "Yeah, JStars  > and other legacy application." > @ > So what does this mean in the real world?  The instructor alsoB > said at another point in the class that he does this class about? > 50 times a year.  Let's see, 50 classes, 20 people per class.cB > Senior NCO's, Warrant Officers, Lieutenants, Captains, Colonels.> > And then there are the Allied Officers from other countries.D > What was it someone said not so long ago about DOD still being one? > of those major VMS customers?  How long do you expect that totA > continue when the decision makers all learn about it like this? E > (No, I am n ot going to fight with the instructor to try and changei, > his mind.  I'm just another student here.) >  > bill >   H Ok folks, help out a senile old fool.  Two days ago I was going through G the last several months saved e-mails, deleting those I didn't think I yD had any more use for.  One was from Ann ??????, the HP exec we were F discussing concerning the webcast.  So now I can't remember her name. A Give me a name, cause I think she needs this stuffed in her face.l   Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 00:05:40 -0500n- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>nY Subject: Re: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration Software for Alpha to Integrc, Message-ID: <42439BF8.91C700BA@teksavvy.com>   "Main, Kerry" wrote:I > Its one thing for the instructor to be bad mouthing another vendor over @ > a coffee break (still very unprofessional mind you), but if anF > instructor strays from the material in front of the class to do someH > personal soap boxing, then he/she is fair game to be challenged on it. > D > This assumes of course, the students are not afraid to speak their > minds.    A In that class scenario, I may have mentioned VMS wasn't dead withiF something like "didn't HP recently release a new version of VMS ?" andD then when his bias really showed with the legacy stuff, I would haveD shut up, but make damned sure that the comment card about the courseG would have contained scathing attack on the lack of breath of knolwedgesG by the teacher. This of course, depends on the course contents. If thiscD were a windows-only couse, then I couldn't fault the teacher for notF knowing about VMS. But if this were a more general networking/securityG course, I would expet the teacher to have greather breath of knowledge.,  E If you pay for a course you want to trust and respect the teacher. Ifo> you know that the teacher is clueless on some of the topics he1 discusses, you lose respect for all that he says.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 23:55:25 -0500,  From: nobody <nobody@nobody.org>Y Subject: Re: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration Software for Alpha to Integrg, Message-ID: <42439992.A5F5AE03@teksavvy.com>   "Main, Kerry" wrote:D > Bill - give me a break. Do you mean to tell me that a room full ofI > seasoned IT Pro's is going to be bashful about speaking their mind? Yes.% > sir. No sir. You must be right sir.o    F If you're in a room full of Windows Weenies, it is sometimes better toF remain under the radar and not speak out to defend the myths about VMSD since you will only succeed in discrediting yourself in the minds of9 those Weenies, and when you lose their respect, YOU lose.O  G The VMS image is such that it is often not defensible by the loyalists.=H And this is why visible marketing of VMS by HP is so important. It givesE us , the loyalists, the amminition to allow us to stand up and defend C VSM in such situations. Without it, you can't succeed in convincing   poeple that the myths are false.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 23:39:50 -0500n  From: nobody <nobody@nobody.org>Y Subject: Re: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration Software forAlpha to Integrik* Message-ID: <424395EC.93069250@nobody.org>   Dave Froble wrote:  I > Ok folks, help out a senile old fool.  Two days ago I was going throughrH > the last several months saved e-mails, deleting those I didn't think IE > had any more use for.  One was from Ann ??????, the HP exec we wereeG > discussing concerning the webcast.  So now I can't remember her name.nC > Give me a name, cause I think she needs this stuffed in her face.     
 Ann Livermore    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:44:16 -0500e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>v- Subject: Re: Carly's Way - article retracted?", Message-ID: <42430A7F.101CC085@teksavvy.com>   Lee Courtney wrote:aI > "she was the editor of Outlaw Biker magazine for three years, and for a = > decade prior was a professional palm and tarot card reader"e > > > Both crucibles of impeccable journalistic ethics and skills.  H Perhaps. But the fact that MIT published the article to begin with meansC that the article had an acceptable level of credibility. Stories offB disgruntled HP employees have surfaced ever since Carly started to
 change HP.  F I am not sure if HP has strict rules with regards to employees talkingF to the media. But I woudln't be surprised if they did. And if so, thenF it is normal that an anonymous source could not be traced back becauseE this is the nature of anonymous sources. An employee who is forbiddentD from speaking to the media about his employer would make damned sure8 than any of his comments couldn't be traced back to him.  F It is also possible that the writer made up those quotes based on what she had read in other articles.   A The big story though is that fact that HP pursued this particularh7 article and tried to get the identities of the sources.u   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 11:11:30 -0800 0 From: Greg Cagle <gregc@removethisgregcagle.com>- Subject: Re: Carly's Way - article retracted?u0 Message-ID: <114647887vqbvc3@corp.supernews.com>   JF Mezei wrote:T  H > I am not sure if HP has strict rules with regards to employees talkingH > to the media. But I woudln't be surprised if they did. And if so, thenH > it is normal that an anonymous source could not be traced back becauseG > this is the nature of anonymous sources. An employee who is forbiddensF > from speaking to the media about his employer would make damned sure: > than any of his comments couldn't be traced back to him.  A Be aware that anyone who has been WFRed (since 2000, I think) wasdC required to sign an agreement to not disparage HP publicly in orderr> to receive their severance package. This may not apply in this9 specific case but will give you an idea of the situation.    - Greg -- l
 Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:04:15 -0700s. From: "Michael D. Ober" <mdo.@.wakeassoc..com>- Subject: Re: Carly's Way - article retracted?C. Message-ID: <43F0e.23$j27.807@news.uswest.net>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:42430A7F.101CC085@teksavvy.com... > Lee Courtney wrote:r >eC > The big story though is that fact that HP pursued this particularp9 > article and tried to get the identities of the sources.h >   L Agreed.  Technology Review may have been suckered - it wouldn't be the firstH time a publication has been (think NY Times), but JF's comments about HP9 pursuing this gives the article some additional credence.   	 Mike Obere MIT '85    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2005 15:58:53 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)=- Subject: Re: Carly's Way - article retracted?,3 Message-ID: <jx4YTwsKONBg@eisner.encompasserve.org>-  R In article <iZednf033JXWmN7fRVn-vQ@igs.net>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes: > N > For nearly two decades George W. Bush was a drunk cocaine-snorting layabout.M > I guess that disqualifies him from just about any job in your opinion. (notCG > that I like the man or feel he is competant in any way...but you guys< > elected him ...)      We did not.      C    Well, OK, some folks did eventually, but not the first time, ando    never me!   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 17:07:44 -0500 4 From: "Mark Buda" <buda@SPAMTripleBreakProducts.com>- Subject: Re: Carly's Way - article retracted?>1 Message-ID: <Raadnfpdk79zoN7fRVn-rA@adelphia.com>>  ; "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message t& news:42430A7F.101CC085@teksavvy.com...H > I am not sure if HP has strict rules with regards to employees talking > to the media.i  J Employees are NOT allowed to talk to the press without permission.  There G are "trained" comunicators who know the company line and what to say...o  H An employee who was publicly saying things to the press would more than  likely be fired.   mark   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 05:51:48 GMTa  From: John Santos <john@egh.com>- Subject: Re: Carly's Way - article retracted? , Message-ID: <UFN0e.51845$hA3.42247@trnddc09>   David Mathog wrote:  > JF Mezei wrote:0 > 3 >>    Each of the two stories, critical of Fiorina,t4 >>    featured quotes from an anonymous HP employee.2 >>    In the first story, the source is identified- >>    as an HP engineer. In the second, he isu1 >>    described as a Hungarian immigrant with thet3 >>    initials G.S., and as "an electrical engineera/ >>    who worked as a research scientist at then0 >>    Hewlett-Packard Imaging Systems Laboratory2 >>    starting in 1975 until he resigned in 2003." >>- >>    HP spokesman Michael Burk said the firm 1 >>    launched an inquiry to find an employee whor0 >>    matched the description of Delio's source. >>3 >>    "No record was found of any person with thoset4 >>    initials," said Burk, nor was the company able3 >>    to find an employee with a similar backgroundt >>    and work record. >  > 7 > Let's assume that the engineer quoted in this article 9 > wasn't a total moron.  Knowing full well the witch hunte: > that would ensue following publication would he not have8 > been wise to feed the journalist incorrect identifying/ > information in order to throw the retribution  > hounds off the scent?u  B The journalist has to be able to prove the existence of his or herC source to his/her editor.  This information is not for publication,gB and responsible journalists and editors are often willing to go to- jail and/or pay enormous fines to protect it.   ; Even if the initials and some of the background was made upa= to disguise the employee to protect him from retribution (ther= article should say so if this is the case), the writer shouldt3 still be able to prove his existence to her editor.o  = Either the story was made up, or the writer doesn't trust the @ editor of Tech Review to keep the identity of her source secret.B If the latter case, then she (or the source) should go to another F publication with a proven track record.  This story was in the Boston = Globe, so it's "NEWS"; some other paper or magazine should be  interested.i   > A > Yes it's also possible that the journalist made the whole thinge5 > up. That HP couldn't attach a name to the source iss4 > hardly definitive evidence of that. We never found4 > out who Deep Throat was either.  According to HP's9 > reasoning Woodward and Bernstein must have made him up.   ; A few weeks ago, a story was circulating that "Deep Throat"t9 was seriously ill, and that he would be identified in hisr; obit in the Washington Post...  (I say "he", because Marthaa9 Mitchell, the only female candidate for Deep Throat I can  recall, died in 1976.)   > 
 > Regards, >  > David Mathog > mathog@caltech.edu     --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 17:06:48 -0600o3 From: Dan Holm <danholm@googlesfreemailservice.com>t> Subject: Re: DS15 RADEON 7500 hang solved (at least partially)9 Message-ID: <42434808$0$3714$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net>   6 Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40 wrote:  D  > Without the Open3D pack, no problem with XV or other imaging toolE  > (ImageMagick) but you can hang completely the system (reset switchhF  > inoperative) moving quickly the Decterms scrollbars (test made withF  > 500 line buffer and 300 lines buffer, with and without batch mode).?  > The hang is seen faster under CDE than classical DEcwindows.i  F Crazy.  Just this week I bought a new monitor so I could get a little I more real-estate than the maximum 1024x768 the previous monitor afforded  D me, and immediately after increasing the resolution to 1280x1024 my E DS10L with a Radeon 7500 started hanging every couple hours whenever aC there were a lot of updates on the display.  I did a little Google  I searching but didn't find anything, so I assumed it had to be a hardware aH issue and called my vendor to begin the replacement procedure.  Now I'm 6 seeing it could actually be a software/driver problem.  D I, also, wanted to upgrade to 8.2 just to see if that would fix the B problem, but being a mere hobbyist without access to media at the C workplace, I would have to shell out the full price for new media. aE Fortunately, from the reply from the DEC employee, at least it seems o2 like this is a known issue with a fix coming soon.   -- v Dan Holm   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2005 12:15:01 -0800' From: "DL Phillips" <whohe@whoever.com>-@ Subject: Re: How to load a shared img without defining a symbol?C Message-ID: <1111695301.396461.271580@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    Bernhard wrote:e= > dooleys@snowy.net.au wrote in news:1111637636.718209.325810m  > @g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: >c >  > > Could you nota > > $ define/sys/exec sys$sharea) disk_user:[java_lib],sys$sysroot:[syslib] ) > > (usual security considerations apply)cD > > or are you able to relink the images that call the shared image?@ > > Then you could put the full path in the linker options file. > > Phil > >m >rE > First option: I am afraid not, as this would involve another definetE > operation by a user. This would be the same as the way suggested by  HP -" > define a symbol for the lib..... >hF > Second: I am not sure, if I understand your suggestion here. We have a F > shared lib, which represents the legacy code. We call that code fomr a , > Java Application - so there is no linking. > We must use either8 > System.loadLibrary(..), which takes a symbolic name or= > System.load(..), which expects an absolute path to the lib.- >- > I tried the latter today:2D > extracted the path, where the framework caches the native lib (aka the:D > shared img) to the local file system and issued a System.load call with > it. ? > Works fine under Win and Unix/Linux, but not so under OpenVMSe >DC > The problem seems to be that the HP-JavaVM does not map filenames" > consistently:r >a& > File.getCanonicalPath() returns e.g:4 > /DISK$USER1/MYLOGINDIR/APP/...../SHAREDIMGFILE.EXEG > (but Java APIDOC says this call should return a system dependent formn of) > the path! which it does under other OS)o3 > but System.load(...) seems to expect it this way: 4 > DISK$USER1:[MYLOGINDIR.APP......]SHAREDIMGFILE.EXE6 > (in fact the HP JavaVM should map this name for me?) >s > This is really annoying.* > Will try to map the path on my own...... >s* > However, thanks for your suggestions and > Happy Easter Holidays :)
 > Bernhard    	 Bernhard,   E Consider that even though you want your application to *run* platform = independent, you will need a platform *specific* installationnD procedure. VMS applications are usually installed by the priviledgedF SYSTEM account and can involve adding commands to the systartup and/orC sylogicals files which run at system startup time. This is where touE define logicals you need to point to your application's library file,hF install shared images and otherwise define the environment required by your application: i.e.  3 $ define/system/exec foo_root disk:[foo_directory.]r> $ define/system/exec foo foo_root:[foo_library]foosharelib.exe and/or,9/ $ install add foo_root:[foo_library]foolib.exe-r  /open/header/share/priv=share   or whatever.  E Alternatively, you could place the define's in a command file used toe run the application:    foo_root:[foo_exec]Start_foo.com2 $ define foo foo_root:[foo_library]foosharelib.exe( $ run foo_root:[foo_exec]foo_application  # And, in sylogin.com you could have:l  - $ DOFOO :== @foo_root:[foo_exec]Start_foo.comr  F So (in this simplified example) the user would just enter DOFOO to run, the app, and System.load("foo") should work.    -Doug   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2005 15:46:06 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)m@ Subject: Re: Need help to port VAX code to Alpha and to Itaninum3 Message-ID: <Jgx$44l8xtvS@eisner.encompasserve.org>p  [ In article <42408A5D.5C4A5A3@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:r > Bob Koehler wrote:I >>    The ANSI C standard now states that for any array named x, the nameyK >>    alone and the name preceded by & both return the address of the first H >>    element of x.  This didn't use to be, so if you are compiling with= >>    different standards you can expect different behaviour.  > E > I tend to no trust these things and do &x[0] to make sure I get the = > address of first element, especially when x is a structure.b > G > I think that ANSI C broke a big rule with char arrays being pointers,h& > and not really alowing &mychararray. > C > So when not so sure, I use &mychararray[0].  (although for simpleuJ > character arrays, this is not an issue, but again, within structures, it > can be inteesting).O  G    I've never known of ambiguity or behaviour problems with x or &x[n],hF    but prior to the ANSI C standard update I never used &x and I think(    the behaviour varied between vendors.  J    I still wouldn't use &x as to me it is syntactial nonsense, even if it     is now well defined.c   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 17:31:58 -0500?- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>i@ Subject: Re: Need help to port VAX code to Alpha and to Itaninum, Message-ID: <42433FCA.64B6A392@teksavvy.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:K >    I still wouldn't use &x as to me it is syntactial nonsense, even if it  >    is now well defined.h  ? To me it is a question of making the code easier to understand.   J &x makes it obvious that you are passing a pointer, no matter what "x" is.  F But the currrent ANSI standard requires that you first lookup what "x"M is before you know what is being passed to the subroutine (value or pointer).e    1 &x[0] as a parameter makes it very obvious that :> 	1- x is an array < 	2- you are passing a pointer to first element in the array.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 21:32:34 -0500u' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>o7 Subject: New Customer Benchmark Brochure Info AvailableoR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB595390@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   All,  G The readers of this list might be interested in the following HP-ISE-OMTC Technlogies Financial Services brochure that just became available:a  ? http://h71028.www7.hp.com/enterprise/cache/79977-0-0-0-121.htmla; (click on HP ISE article on right side "HP ISE White Paper:o8 International Securities Exchange scales off the chart")   Extract from the attached:E "When the results of the benchmark began to come in, there was a longiA moment of stunned silence in the benchmark center; the ISE systemcC configuration was able to scale to 1 million quotes per second. TheeD benchmark results had important implications for ISE in terms of itsB ability to handle the steadily increasing volume levels in optionsE trading transactions that have marked ISE's phenomenal success in thee finance industry."  	 [snip...]   = All of this with ultra-high security and no viruses .. what at concept....e   :-)h     Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantt HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477d kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2005 15:49:46 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) + Subject: Re: Remote queue on a linux serverk3 Message-ID: <rGQzH4j+gNgi@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  b In article <1d5d30a9.0503222135.52bbdaaa@posting.google.com>, mrs2001@libero.it (Maurizio) writes: >   > $$$ init/queue oce8 /on=oce8:: >   C    If oce8 is the local name of the LPD or streams printer, then ite    should be  #       $$$ init/queue oce8 /on=oce8:   C    "oce8::" is the syntax for a DECnet remote node, or for a remotehB    node in a VMScluster where the queue runs.  The former can't beC    used as a printer target and the latter can't be a Linux system.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 19:26:18 -0600t2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>+ Subject: Re: Remote queue on a linux servern+ Message-ID: <424368BA.686F6282@comcast.net>    Maurizio wrote:s > [snip]2 > I already found in UCX$LPRSETUP this definition: >  > OCE8|OCE8_00|oce8|OCE8:\. >         :lf=/SYS$SPECIFIC/UCX_LPD/OCE8.LOG:\ >         :lp=OCE8:\ >         :rm=172.20.101.132:\ >         :rp=oce9400:\g) >         :sd=/SYS$SPECIFIC/UCX_LPD/OCE8:c >  > But it doesn't work.7 > Everyway, someone told me that the problem is in NCP.d
 > Is it true?n > + > I defined node OCE8, but it doesn't loop.    NCP is for DECnet, not TCP/IP.  E I'd recommend a look at the on-line documentation for TCP/IP Services  for OpenVMS.  E Find the documentation link at http://www.hp.com/go/openvms under thet" the heading "OpenVMS information".   -- a David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/i   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2005 15:50:21 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)i< Subject: Re: Status bits for OFFLINE and MntVerifyTimeout ??3 Message-ID: <CxA0aU6+ZVy7@eisner.encompasserve.org>a  i In article <1111556706.332727.156720@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Shankar" <passhan@gmail.com> writes:aI > Thanks Dave and Phillip. Do we assume that if a device is not available - > for use, then it means that it is OFFLINE ?o  G    No.  Those are spearate bits in the UCB and they are set and clearedt    for separate reasons.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 19:24:45 GMT2" From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: tbk$i64_symbolize0 Message-ID: <00A41405.B0ADAFF9@SendSpamHere.ORG>  / Can enyone get this thing to work in a program?e  , All it seems to do is print out the message:  : TRACEBACK - Exception occurred during traceback processing     -- tK VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMc            :5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" m   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:18:19 -0800i, From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com>Y Subject: Re: TCPIP 5.4: obsolete information in HELP, what are new defaults (clusteralias + Message-ID: <d1vlcb$ngm$1@news01.intel.com>p  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:u
 [big snip]   > I guess I can use  > 4 > $  pipe ifconfig -a | sea sys$pipe aaa.bbb.ccc.ddd > H > where aaa.bbb.ccc.ddd is the cluster-alias address, then check $STATUSI > to see if the machine which executed the command has the cluster alias.z  A I think it's easier than that.  Thanks to Matt's clue, I went and B looked on one of our clusters which I "knew" was using the cluster impersonator under TCPIP V5.4.  = On a node that is NOT currently the "CI", we find this output  (mind the line wraps):  B ------------------------------------------------------------------& RA2SW4::Khfairfi> mc tcpip$ifconfig -aA LO0: flags=100c89<UP,LOOPBACK,NOARP,MULTICAST,SIMPLEX,NOCHECKSUM>h   TN0: flags=80<NOARP>   TN1: flags=80<NOARP>  6 WE0: flags=c43<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,MULTICAST,SIMPLEX>       failSAFE IP Addresses:K          inet a.b.c.170 netmask ffffff00 broadcast a.b.c.255 (on RA2SW3 WE0y ) D      *inet a.b.c.177 netmask ffffff00 broadcast a.b.c.255 ipmtu 1500  6 WE1: flags=c43<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,MULTICAST,SIMPLEX>D      *inet a.b.f.103 netmask ffffff00 broadcast a.b.f.255 ipmtu 1500   RA2SW4::Khfairfi>cB ------------------------------------------------------------------  + On the node that _is_ the CI, we find this:f  B ------------------------------------------------------------------& RA2SW3::Khfairfi> mc tcpip$ifconfig -aA LO0: flags=100c89<UP,LOOPBACK,NOARP,MULTICAST,SIMPLEX,NOCHECKSUM>t0       inet 127.0.0.1 netmask ff000000 ipmtu 4096   TN0: flags=80<NOARP>   TN1: flags=80<NOARP>  6 WE0: flags=c43<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,MULTICAST,SIMPLEX>D      *inet a.b.c.176 netmask ffffff00 broadcast a.b.c.255 ipmtu 1500D       inet a.b.c.170 netmask ffffff00 broadcast a.b.c.255 ipmtu 1500  6 WE1: flags=c43<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,MULTICAST,SIMPLEX>D      *inet a.b.f.102 netmask ffffff00 broadcast a.b.f.255 ipmtu 1500   RA2SW3::Khfairfi>lB ------------------------------------------------------------------  ) So you can use the inverted test like so:'  =       $ Pipe Mcr Tcpip$IfConFig -a | Search Sys$Pipe failSAFEw  - and if that is _true_, you're _not_ the "CI".r    @ I'm not sure that solves the rest of your configuration  issues,> but I do think it solves the problem of determining whether or? not the current node is "servicing" the failSAFE address, i.e.,  is the cluster impersonator.   	-Ken0 -- >6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfieldo! D1C Automation VMS System Supporta" who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:33:12 -0500e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> > Subject: Re: TCPIP: why can an MX record not point to a CNAME?, Message-ID: <424307E7.4E162DA4@teksavvy.com>   briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:dD > > Some mailers may have some smarts to requeue a message whose DSN: > > translation failed. BUT VMS doesn't. (TCPIP Services). >  > Wow.  That's broken.    F Yes and no.  If the domain is non existant, then you want an immediateH bounce to tell you about it, trying again later has few odds of changingA that. It is not likely to get fixed. If the remote server doesn'tnC responds that is likely a temporary thing and requeing makes sense.   H The subtility is for the software to differentiate between a "NO" answer# and a "sorry, can't reach outside".   H Consider a case when you have your internal DNS server. Your applicationG can connect to it and make requests. But if its link to the internet is C severed, your application will have a successful connect to the DSNs6 server, but that DNS server will return a "not found".  I You need to apply a bit of DR logic to see the various failure scenarios.n   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2005 20:18:05 +01006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)> Subject: Re: TCPIP: why can an MX record not point to a CNAME?, Message-ID: <4243207d$1@NEWS.LANGSTOEGER.AT>  \ In article <424307E7.4E162DA4@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:  >briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:E >> > Some mailers may have some smarts to requeue a message whose DSNh; >> > translation failed. BUT VMS doesn't. (TCPIP Services).t >> d >> Wow.  That's broken.m >sG >Yes and no.  If the domain is non existant, then you want an immediatelI >bounce to tell you about it, trying again later has few odds of changingvB >that. It is not likely to get fixed. If the remote server doesn'tD >responds that is likely a temporary thing and requeing makes sense. >nI >The subtility is for the software to differentiate between a "NO" answert$ >and a "sorry, can't reach outside".  B That's why MX has different retry/timeout values for DNS and SMTP.H I've set 12 retries with 30min timeout for DNS and 96 retries with 30min	 for SMTP.   K No configurable parameter or even no retry for DNS, I see as broken, too...9   -- u Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialistu E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2005 14:07:19 -0600 From: briggs@encompasserve.org> Subject: Re: TCPIP: why can an MX record not point to a CNAME?3 Message-ID: <v$ud5FbmqZun@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <424307E7.4E162DA4@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:! > briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:oE >> > Some mailers may have some smarts to requeue a message whose DSN ; >> > translation failed. BUT VMS doesn't. (TCPIP Services).  >> w >> Wow.  That's broken.c >  > H > Yes and no.  If the domain is non existant, then you want an immediateJ > bounce to tell you about it, trying again later has few odds of changingC > that. It is not likely to get fixed. If the remote server doesn'taE > responds that is likely a temporary thing and requeing makes sense.l  ? I'm talking about the behavior where the SMTP software fails tohA distinguish between temporary and permanent DNS-related failures.c  D If you have a "temporary" DNS failure you want to queue the mail for< retry.  This includes timeout and SERVFAIL type diagnostics.  A If you have a "permanent" DNS failure you want to bounce the mailsE immediately.  This includes NXDOMAIN and the case where a name exists + but has no records of the appropriate type.S  J > The subtility is for the software to differentiate between a "NO" answer% > and a "sorry, can't reach outside".r > J > Consider a case when you have your internal DNS server. Your applicationI > can connect to it and make requests. But if its link to the internet isoE > severed, your application will have a successful connect to the DSNs8 > server, but that DNS server will return a "not found".  G No.  It won't.  It will return SERVFAIL or will fail to respond at all.oA It will only return an NXDOMAIN answer in the case where it knowsv? that a particular record does not exist or has been told that anA particular record does not exist.  If it can't talk to anyone, it20 will not synthesize a "does not exist" response.  I If your mail package depends on a resolver package that does not allow itaD to make the disctinction between "does not exist" and "can't resolveE right now" then your mail package is broken.  It needs to be equipped2 with a real resolver library.y   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 14:24:58 -0500r$ From: "Chris" <an.other@not_here.ca> Subject: VAX 4000 battery : Message-ID: <2uE0e.36885$nK.1307914@news20.bellglobal.com>  F Dumb question I'm sure, but has anyone tried replacing the 12-19245-01L battery pack with anything else.  The originals don't seem readily availableH here, or very reliable, and there are several cordless phone NiCad packsK that seem to have similar characteristics and connector.  Not being much ofoI an electrical type, what would be the worst thing to happen if I replacedyB the 180mAh pack with one of same voltage, but rated at say 320mAh? Combustion? Smell of Death?a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:45:41 -0700n+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com>  Subject: Re: VAX 4000 batteryn' Message-ID: <424326F5.3060901@MMaz.com>6  G Went down to radio-shack and bought the functional equivalent, cut the 0@ leads from the old battery and soldered them to the new battery K housing.  Yes, I also had an increase in mAh and didn't have any problem...0   Barrym   Chris wrote:  G >Dumb question I'm sure, but has anyone tried replacing the 12-19245-01gM >battery pack with anything else.  The originals don't seem readily availablewI >here, or very reliable, and there are several cordless phone NiCad packs L >that seem to have similar characteristics and connector.  Not being much ofJ >an electrical type, what would be the worst thing to happen if I replacedC >the 180mAh pack with one of same voltage, but rated at say 320mAh?e >Combustion? Smell of Death? >n >r >l >  o >p   --    < Barry Treahy, Jr                     E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com< Midwest Microwave, Inc.                  Phone: 480/314-1320< Vice President & CIO                      FAX:  480/661-7028  I                        ... but it's a DRY HEAT!                          g   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:51:54 -0500"- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>d Subject: Re: VAX 4000 batterya, Message-ID: <42433668.5AB46668@teksavvy.com>   Chris wrote:M > that seem to have similar characteristics and connector.  Not being much of K > an electrical type, what would be the worst thing to happen if I replacedAD > the 180mAh pack with one of same voltage, but rated at say 320mAh? > Combustion? Smell of Death?g    H A long time ago, I replaced my All Mighty Microvax II's batteries with 3@ AAA purchased from Radio Shack which I soldered in series to theD original connector.  In a month or two, my all mighty MV II turns 18C (which means I technically can start storing porn on it and feed its alchool :-)s  O Inside the plastic wrapper, you'll find conventional AAA or AA nicad batteries.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 19:30:56 -0600o2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> Subject: Re: VAX 4000 batteryn+ Message-ID: <424369CF.B9BB7748@comcast.net>    Chris wrote: > H > Dumb question I'm sure, but has anyone tried replacing the 12-19245-01N > battery pack with anything else.  The originals don't seem readily availableJ > here, or very reliable, and there are several cordless phone NiCad packsM > that seem to have similar characteristics and connector.  Not being much ofyK > an electrical type, what would be the worst thing to happen if I replacedrD > the 180mAh pack with one of same voltage, but rated at say 320mAh? > Combustion? Smell of Death?e  % How 'bout expecting Normal operation?e  E mAh is an expression of how much current the battery can deliver, not.E voltage. I'm sure one of the resident electrical engineering studentse$ can explain it more fully/correctly.   -- a David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:"" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 21:05:14 -0600 (CST)e* From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: VAX 4000 battery 2 Message-ID: <05032421051459_28400268@antinode.org>  2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>  G > mAh is an expression of how much current the battery can deliver, notoG > voltage. I'm sure one of the resident electrical engineering studentse& > can explain it more fully/correctly.  C    Gee, I sure hope none of them does.  The "explanations" from the = folks who can't tell charge from current are bound to be moren
 entertaining.o  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-orgf    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547g   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 19:07:43 +0000 (UTC)g& From: Bernhard <lithium@nospam_gmx.at>K Subject: Re: [Java JNI] How to load a shared img without defining a symbol?s> Message-ID: <Xns9623CC35A40A3lithiumnospamgmxat@212.33.32.148>  F > Hmmm, sounds like this java.library.path thing is a feature that Sun, > should document and HP should implement...  B Looks like there would be more than that to implement for HP......   > > For a workaround, I would guess that the default location isE > SYS$LIBRARY. Try putting your shareable image (.EXE) containing theSH > JNI routines in SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB].  Second guess would be SYS$SYSTEM > (SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]).   > C > One thing -- there are security issues in allowing users to placen9 > arbitrarily-named images in that directory (replacing a G > system-standard image, for example, could cause the user's code to beg: > executed in privileged mode on the next system startup).  H Putting the shared libs into the SYSLIB dir will be our last option, if F everything else fails. However, this is an absolutely unwanted option.   Thanks,n Bernhard   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Mar 2005 15:54:07 -0600; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)iK Subject: Re: [Java JNI] How to load a shared img without defining a symbol?e3 Message-ID: <lfVoHZBF6e4H@eisner.encompasserve.org>,  g In article <Xns9620E840CDE42lithiumnospamgmxat@212.33.32.148>, Bernhard <lithium@nospam_gmx.at> writes:t   > I > Is there another way to make OpenVMS find the correct native lib? Do I o > always need a symbol?o  F    VMS will find a shareable image by first looking for a logical nameH    (again, not a symbol), or by looking in sys$share.  Anyone can do theA    former unless the referencing image is privileged, only systemt    managers can do the latter.  F    The JRE is not a privileged image, so it can find a shareable image*    via a logical name that anyone can set.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.167 ************************