1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 27 Mar 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 171       Contents: /include/nocopy  Re: /include/nocopy  Re: /include/nocopy  Re: /include/nocopy P Re: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration Software for Alpha to IntegrP Re: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration Software for Alpha to Integr$ Re: Carly's Way - article retracted?$ Re: Carly's Way - article retracted? Re: History of the VMS shark Re: History of the VMS shark2 Re: New Customer Benchmark Brochure Info Available# Re: Question on DCL f<dollar>string # Re: Question on DCL f<dollar>string # Re: Question on DCL f<dollar>string # Re: Question on DCL f<dollar>string  TCPIP SHOW HOST/SERVER  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 21:16:31 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: /include/nocopy$ Message-ID: <d24jff$om0$1@online.de>  F In article <opsn83tczvzgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:   2 > $ ! From: Ken Fairfield <My.Full.Name@intel.com> > $ ! Newsgroups: comp.os.vms 3 > $ ! Subject: Re: Creating a wide area VMS Cluster + > $ ! Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:00:24 -0700 % > $ ! Organization: Intel Corporation / > $ ! Message-ID: <3F6A00C8.7E0EEAF7@intel.com>  > $ ! = > $ !         I've said this before in the newsgroup and I'll : > $ ! say it again: the ONLY SAFE WAY to mount shadow sets@ > $ ! (unassisted during startup) is with /INCLUDE/NOCOPY.  ThisD > $ ! will assure that you don't overwrite a good member of a shadowF > $ ! set with a out-of-date one that, for any of a number of reasons,E > $ ! might otherwise be used as the shadow master during a copy (not   > $ ! merge) initiated on mount.  E I remember reading this, thinking about it, then not implementing it, D partially because I didn't understand it thorougly.  Let me see if IC have it right.  Let's assume a "normal" MOUNT/SHADOW command in the @ startup.  Everything is up and running.  Member A fails due to aG transient power failure.  The node shuts down.  Member A comes back up. G Member B fails due to a transient power failure.  The node boots, can't F find B so uses A as the master.  Member B comes back up and becomes a H copy target.  This will lose any data written to B after the failure of H A before the node shut down.  However, I suppose this is only a problem 9 if the shadow set is mounted again after B comes back up.   2 What are some more of the "any number of reasons"?  H The above scenario looks possible but a bit unlikely.  Has anyone every  experienced it?   F The weakness I see is the following.  Either I specify all the membersF on the /SHADOW qualifier, or I don't.  If I specify them all, then theF MOUNT will fail if they are not all available (if I specify /INCLUDE),D correct?  This means that if I lose a disk, I can't do an unassistedG reboot.  That's not very robust.  On the other hand, if I don't specify D all the members, and only (a) non-specified member(s) is there, then again the MOUNT will fail.    H I agree that the /INCLUDE/NOCOPY option is safer, but it appears doable F only if someone is always on site to correct problems.  With a remote H system, if I can't mount the shadow set with the SYSUAF, I can't log in , remotely (OK, perhaps via a remote console).  H What do people here recommend for a remote cluster?  In other words, is C the scenario above (or another one which could lead to the problem  I described) much more likely than the probability of losing a disk (which  2 would prevent MOUNT from completing successfully)?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 16:47:44 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: /include/nocopyB Message-ID: <1111873649.4c64bd5ca0b3925d22f828067e7016ce@teranews>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: B > startup.  Everything is up and running.  Member A fails due to aI > transient power failure.  The node shuts down.  Member A comes back up. I > Member B fails due to a transient power failure.  The node boots, can't G > find B so uses A as the master.  Member B comes back up and becomes a I > copy target.  This will lose any data written to B after the failure of I > A before the node shut down.  However, I suppose this is only a problem ; > if the shadow set is mounted again after B comes back up.   D If member A comes back up before B goes down, that A's disks will beE marked as copy targets and this invalidated. Then B fails, I *assume* P the copy operation will fail and the shadow set will go into mount verification.  < When B comes back up, its disks are stil considered the most< recent/valid copy and woudl become source of copy operation.  B Where this fails is if A comes down , B continues to run for a fewD minutes and then goes down. Later on, A is brought back up first, atH which point, A,s disks are cosnidered valid and become the most uptodate< valid drives and when B comes up, its disks are overwritten.  D This si why a good DR plan has WRITTEN procedures on how to boot theH machines based on a grid of which machines went down in what order. If BB was the last member to go down and thus has valid drives, you must" ensure that B comes back up first.   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 22:06:40 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: /include/nocopy$ Message-ID: <d24mdg$s60$1@online.de>  E In article <1111873649.4c64bd5ca0b3925d22f828067e7016ce@teranews>, JF - Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:    1 > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: D > > startup.  Everything is up and running.  Member A fails due to aK > > transient power failure.  The node shuts down.  Member A comes back up. K > > Member B fails due to a transient power failure.  The node boots, can't I > > find B so uses A as the master.  Member B comes back up and becomes a K > > copy target.  This will lose any data written to B after the failure of K > > A before the node shut down.  However, I suppose this is only a problem = > > if the shadow set is mounted again after B comes back up.  > F > If member A comes back up before B goes down, that A's disks will be/ > marked as copy targets and this invalidated.    H Note that between A failing and A coming back up, the node is shut down.F I should have mentioned that one should consider the shadow set to be I mounted only on one node.  The point is, while the node is down, nothing  I can mark A as a copy target.  Then when the node comes back up, A is the  2 only member available, and becomes the new master.  D > Where this fails is if A comes down , B continues to run for a fewF > minutes and then goes down. Later on, A is brought back up first, atJ > which point, A,s disks are cosnidered valid and become the most uptodate> > valid drives and when B comes up, its disks are overwritten.  I Right.  Instead of having B going down in the example above, I shut down  G the node.  The point is, as you say, that A comes back up first before  , it has had a chance to become a copy target.  F > This si why a good DR plan has WRITTEN procedures on how to boot theJ > machines based on a grid of which machines went down in what order. If BD > was the last member to go down and thus has valid drives, you must$ > ensure that B comes back up first.  H This example is actually much more relevant to my case.  All my physicalG disks have a direct connection to only one node, and all are members of H shadow sets.  Except for system and page/swap disks, all shadow sets areF distributed across multiple nodes.  So if node A and member 1 go down,G then node B and member 2 go down, as you say I really need to make sure A that node B and member 2 come back up before node A and member 1. H Normally, I take down 1 node at a time and wait for all shadow copies to= complete after rebooting it until I take the next node down.  G Occasionally, I do a cluster reboot (for example if I change allocation D classes, or to save time by avoiding shadow copies if I have to takeI down all nodes anyway).  In the event of a power failure, all nodes will  G come up at the same time (I have some code in the startup so that they  F wait for each other to allow for different lengths of time needed for D the boot; no point in mounting just one member of a shadow set then A doing a copy when the other member comes in a few seconds later.)   F Thus, I don't see this happening in my case, either during planned or > unexpected downtime, but it is something worth thinking about.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 18:52:44 -0800 , From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com> Subject: Re: /include/nocopy+ Message-ID: <d2575s$828$1@news01.intel.com>   / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: H > In article <opsn83tczvzgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>
 > writes:  >  > 2 >>$ ! From: Ken Fairfield <My.Full.Name@intel.com> >>$ ! Newsgroups: comp.os.vms 3 >>$ ! Subject: Re: Creating a wide area VMS Cluster + >>$ ! Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:00:24 -0700 % >>$ ! Organization: Intel Corporation / >>$ ! Message-ID: <3F6A00C8.7E0EEAF7@intel.com>  >>$ ! = >>$ !         I've said this before in the newsgroup and I'll : >>$ ! say it again: the ONLY SAFE WAY to mount shadow sets@ >>$ ! (unassisted during startup) is with /INCLUDE/NOCOPY.  ThisD >>$ ! will assure that you don't overwrite a good member of a shadowF >>$ ! set with a out-of-date one that, for any of a number of reasons,E >>$ ! might otherwise be used as the shadow master during a copy (not   >>$ ! merge) initiated on mount. >  > G > I remember reading this, thinking about it, then not implementing it, F > partially because I didn't understand it thorougly.  Let me see if IE > have it right.  Let's assume a "normal" MOUNT/SHADOW command in the B > startup.  Everything is up and running.  Member A fails due to aI > transient power failure.  The node shuts down.  Member A comes back up. I > Member B fails due to a transient power failure.  The node boots, can't H > find B so uses A as the master.  Member B comes back up and becomes a J > copy target.  This will lose any data written to B after the failure of J > A before the node shut down.  However, I suppose this is only a problem ; > if the shadow set is mounted again after B comes back up.  > 4 > What are some more of the "any number of reasons"? > J > The above scenario looks possible but a bit unlikely.  Has anyone every  > experienced it?  > H > The weakness I see is the following.  Either I specify all the membersH > on the /SHADOW qualifier, or I don't.  If I specify them all, then theH > MOUNT will fail if they are not all available (if I specify /INCLUDE),F > correct?  This means that if I lose a disk, I can't do an unassistedI > reboot.  That's not very robust.  On the other hand, if I don't specify F > all the members, and only (a) non-specified member(s) is there, then > again the MOUNT will fail.    B     So to avoid the problem in your last paragraph, you need a way@ to supply both (all?) potential shadow set members, but use only' one at a time when you issue the mount.   E     What we did (when was at SLAC) was to have an internal subroutine C in the disk mount procedure.  The subroutine was passed the list of A all potential shadow set members, but it looped through the list, A checking each individually to see if it existed and was available B before trying the mount.  If either check failed, it would try theC next member in the list.  Of course, the /Include would pick up all  valid available members.  >     I admit to not having a clear scenario for the "bad thing"@ happening, but here's a contrived example:  A and B have locallyD attached members of DSA0.  A crashes, then at a later time B crashes= before A has rebooted and shadow copied its member into DSA0. B Therefore B's local member is more up to date than A's.  A rebootsA before B and mounts DSA0 with its local member of DSA0, B's being  unavailable.  C     NOW COMES THE PROBLEM: B boots and mounts DSA0.  If it _allows_ < its local member to be copied into DSA0, the more up-to-dateA version will be overwritten.  It will have mounted an out-of-date > DSA0 (as did A), but the up-to-date data on B's member will be= preserved until the system manager can decide how to procede.   B     As a variation, imagine the nodes crash as described, with B's> member is the "good" one.  Now you boot both A and B together.@ How do you know which member will be the shadow master?  I don't> _think_ you do.  There is at least a timing issue if A gets to@ the mount before B.  Or it could depend on the order the members? are listed in the /Shadow.  The point is, I'm not convinced you > are in control of which member becomes the master, nor whether/ the shadow server will make the "right" choice.   	      -Ken  --  6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield ! D1C Automation VMS System Support " who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Mar 2005 19:41:54 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)Y Subject: Re: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration Software for Alpha to Integr , Message-ID: <3als82F6cs3o6U1@individual.net>  , In article <BpKdnYZfVLac79jfRVn-rA@rcn.net>,% 	Glenn Everhart <gce@gce.com> writes:  > M > Sometimes I find that asking the simple question "what have you contributed D > to the info security field?" serves to surface shallow opinions...  K He's not paid to "contribute to the info security field".  He is being paid J to teach this class.  He has an approved curriculum and he follows it.  HeJ is the instructor chosen by this particular school to teach this class andL as such his "opinions" carry considerable weight with his students. (Unless,D like me, they have previous knowledge of the subject.  Most do not.)   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 20:32:41 +0100 + From: Karsten Nyblad <nospam@nospam.nospam> Y Subject: Re: Announcing Availability of HP OpenVMS Migration Software for Alpha to Integr = Message-ID: <4245b8f0$0$78284$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>    John Smith wrote:  > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > E >>In article <3aharnF69bs4pU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill  >>Gunshannon) writes:  >> >>E >>>There is nothing controversial about it at all.  He stated it as a H >>>fact and the majority will accept it as such and go on to make futureF >>>decisions based on that information.  Note, that one of the reasons@ >>>given for this was that VMS never gets mentioned in the tradeE >>>journals. Whre have we heard this before?  And who is the only one ' >>>capable of doing something about it?  >> >>VMS customers. >  >  > N > We, for the most part, have day jobs which require us to do productive work.K > Pushing on a rope for a corporation that does not care one iota about our . > suggestions and pleas is not my idea of fun.  A Not only that.  You can easily become the guy with all the weird  E suggetions, the guy that is always talking from a soap box.  Even if  $ what you say is true.  Lets face it.  D Decisions on which IT platforms to use are very often political and F waekly found in fact.  You face an uphill battle if you have to fight I those fights alone.  Do not forget that many people in the organizations  = will suggest the systems that are good for their own carrier.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 16:24:21 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> - Subject: Re: Carly's Way - article retracted? , Message-ID: <NMydnQE-wPmRTtjfRVn-vg@igs.net>   JF Mezei wrote:  > FredK wrote:E >> I've seen this a number of times over the years.  My wife was at a 
 >> bank doing D >> some work, and they have a consultant who claimed to have writtenC >> some SCSI and Graphics code for Tru64 - since I knew pretty much D >> everyone who was doing graphics, she asked me about him - I never >> heard of him. > B > I setup a disaster recovery plan for a bank. I gave the job to aG > friend when I left. He then went on to a large electric utility where F > he claimed he had setup that bank's DR plan. I found out through the? > grapevine, but the utility never found out the guy was lying.  > G > In terms of Delios, I find it odd that she would not have worked very G > hard to protect the identity of her sources. Maybe she knew they were H > fictitious and thus had no problems giving HP/MIT the information. ButA > that probably means that nobody will ever give her confidential ( > information on condition of anonimity.     JF,   K People get 'snowed' all the time. Look at the poor HP shareholders who were  taken for a ride by carly(tm).  I When you sell business critical technology, you need to deliver the facts : and the marketing to your customers (VMS, NSK, unix,....).  C When you are selling commodity pseudo-technology (Windows, personal J printers, PC's, cameras, relabelled iPods, TV's, paper and ink, ....) into% the mass market all you need is hype.    --F OpenVMS - The never advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 16:58:20 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> - Subject: Re: Carly's Way - article retracted? B Message-ID: <1111874281.332329e0229e32e358611f982dd2ccd4@teranews>   John Smith wrote: K > When you sell business critical technology, you need to deliver the facts < > and the marketing to your customers (VMS, NSK, unix,....). > E > When you are selling commodity pseudo-technology (Windows, personal L > printers, PC's, cameras, relabelled iPods, TV's, paper and ink, ....) into' > the mass market all you need is hype.   H I agree. Big question is how HP will change once it gets its new CEO and
 optional COO.   E As long as Winkler is responsible for marketing, you can't expect any  changes to VMS' marketing.D Winkler needs to be ousted. He should have gone to Worldcom with his buddy Curly.  E If the new CEO is smart, she will oust Winkler, especially of the new O CEO is of HP heritage from before the era of HP being a comsumer goods wannabe.   D The end of MArch is coming soon. One of the board members had statedC publicly a few weeks ago that the search was going well and that an G announcement would probably come by the end of march. (Which meant that L the search would have been over and contract negotiations would have begun).  G My bet right now that that Ann Livermore gets either COO or CEO. And if D she does, it will be partly by pointing to all the errors that CarlyH made in managing the company and selecting the right people for the job,: and hopefully, she can blast Winkler out once and for all.  G And HP should seriously consider having 2 separate PR debpartments, one C for consumer goods, and one for enterprise. The consumer goods guys 5 should not be able to mess with the enterprise stuff.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 13:46:48 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> % Subject: Re: History of the VMS shark B Message-ID: <1111862805.5e630da8d09619b43e3dad153dcb96e7@teranews>   "Clay M. Denton" wrote:  > V > IIRC, the shark used by VMS was pulled from a royalty-free clipart database includedX > with whatever vintage Corel Draw would have been current in the 1995-1996 timeframe...  H Yep, I actually purchased that CD separately (I am on MAC), and probablyF bought it well before 1995-1996 timeframe.  The quality of the clipartF is very poor unless you just use the clip art as it is without blowingG it up much. It seems to be automated traces of analog images as opposed   to properly drawn vector images.  H When I am done with the shark "rebuilding", I will post before and afterH pictures.  BTW, the white shark depicted is female. (the ventral fins ofG a male are more complex). One of the problems with the corel version is D that when you rasterise it in small sizes (such as an XBM icon), theG outlines are too thin to show up, and the shark is far less "visible".  D This is because the shark was improperly built, with fill in objects? being above line object (instead of the opposite, or onsieat fo F combining them into a single object. Also, because the shark is brokenH up into a lot of separate pieces, increasing the width of the outline ofH shark requires a lot of work. But in my rebuild, that is a single objectG and then becomes easy to change it width if you want to rasterise it to ) small size with an outline still visible.     J Does anyone knwo where I could find a 3d DXF format of the linux penguin ?  D I've debated tweaking the shades of grey to add a tinge of blue. ButG looking at real images of white sharks, the tinting of the corel one is ! not very realistic to begin with.     L Of course, the next step will be to create a 3d version of the VMS shark :-)   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Mar 2005 11:18:06 -0800% From: "marika" <marika5000@gmail.com> % Subject: Re: History of the VMS shark C Message-ID: <1111864686.824971.189600@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    JF Mezei wrote:      >  >The quality of the clipart @ > is very poor unless you just use the clip art as it is without blowing 
 > it up much.   & What kind of nuttiness is behind that.  < >It seems to be automated traces of analog images as opposed" > to properly drawn vector images. >  Where's the consideration?   mk5000  E "'you really want them?'  Carmen didn't feel like mentioning that she A was planning to throw them away.  Bigger points if they mattered.  "Uh-huh"D Tibby was demanding a display of unconditional love.  Then again, itC was her right.  Three of them were flying off on big adventures the C next day, and Tibby was launching her career at Wallman's in scenic G Bethesda for five cents over minimum wage"--Anne Brashares, "Sisterhood  of the Traveling Pants"    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 16:13:02 -0500 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> ; Subject: Re: New Customer Benchmark Brochure Info Available , Message-ID: <uPOdnToL7dL4TdjfRVn-1g@igs.net>   John Smith wrote:  > Main, Kerry wrote: >> All,  >>@ >> The readers of this list might be interested in the followingE >> HP-ISE-OM Technlogies Financial Services brochure that just became 
 >> available:  >>B >> http://h71028.www7.hp.com/enterprise/cache/79977-0-0-0-121.html> >> (click on HP ISE article on right side "HP ISE White Paper:; >> International Securities Exchange scales off the chart")  >> >> Extract from the attached: H >> "When the results of the benchmark began to come in, there was a longD >> moment of stunned silence in the benchmark center; the ISE systemF >> configuration was able to scale to 1 million quotes per second. TheG >> benchmark results had important implications for ISE in terms of its E >> ability to handle the steadily increasing volume levels in options H >> trading transactions that have marked ISE's phenomenal success in the >> finance industry."  >> >> [snip...] >>@ >> All of this with ultra-high security and no viruses .. what a >> concept.... >  > H > It *would* indeed be a concept IF it were advertised in WSJ, Financial@ > Times, The Economist, Business Week, Forture, Forbes, Barrons,B > Computerworld, Information Week, eWeek, hell...even PC Magazine.1 > Without that, it's just preaching to the choir.  > E > Why does Blatz & Co. even waste the money producing this crap if it A > isn't going to be seen beyond the magic 660 accounts.....I have A > customers with 60,000+ employees where I can't even mention VMS D > because they don't believe HP has any committment to it because HPE > don't advertise it, and that the 3rd-party application portfolio is F > pretty thin, and because a lot of 'open source' doesn't have a readyC > VMS version. I guess the University of Turin will single-handedly G > take care of that....correct? or will they be getting help from other G > academic institutions with 1 or 2 students porting one or two modules 0 > of some 'open source' as an academic exercise? > D > You know what would be worth crowing about....when HP sells in oneB > year the same number of Wintel servers it sells in one week. But3 > that'll never happen without advertising for VMS.      correction....  K You know what would be worth crowing about....when HP sells in one year the K same number of servers with VMS installed as it sells Wintel servers in one ; week. But that'll never happen without advertising for VMS.        --F OpenVMS - The never advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 14:10:55 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> , Subject: Re: Question on DCL f<dollar>stringB Message-ID: <1111864256.debcebd6c7f2073c47cb74edc1f89bcd@teranews>   Hein wrote: = > But if you like to be 'cute' and obscure, you can also use:  > 
 > $ last=2 > $ last=f$ext(1,2,100+last) > $ show symb last >   LAST = "02"  >  > gag!  M I didn't know that one could abbreviate lexicals ! Learn something every day.   G The above tactic has the advantage of always returning 2 digits even if G "last" ends up being 1 ,2 or 3 digits. F$FAO("!2ZL"  would return ** if  the number were above 99).   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 17:34:44 -0500  From: norm.raphael@metso.com, Subject: Re: Question on DCL f<dollar>stringQ Message-ID: <OF3DF5C43B.3E9F8C34-ON85256FD0.007B9F1B-85256FD0.007C33A5@metso.com>   + This is a multipart message in MIME format. " --=_alternative 007C33A185256FD0_=, Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"  F All responses so far add nicely to the literature and I found them at  worst interesting,  5 but they do not answer my questions about f$integer,  0 just in case someone would like to address them.  G I think f$fao would be best in the procedure in question, but I didn't  	 write it.   H JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote on 03/26/2005 02:10:55 PM:  
 > Hein wrote: ? > > But if you like to be 'cute' and obscure, you can also use:  > >  > > $ last=2 > > $ last=f$ext(1,2,100+last) > > $ show symb last > >   LAST = "02"  > >  > > gag! > K > I didn't know that one could abbreviate lexicals ! Learn something every   day. > I > The above tactic has the advantage of always returning 2 digits even if I > "last" ends up being 1 ,2 or 3 digits. F$FAO("!2ZL"  would return ** if  > the number were above 99).    C "Hein" <hein_news@eps.zko.dec.com> wrote on 03/26/2005 01:26:58 PM:    >  > Dirk Munk wrote:E > > All these examples are not the best way to accomplish the desired  > result, since 4 > > you need special coding for the months 10 to 12. > > C > > For this purpose you should use the F$Fao lexical, like in this 
 > example: >  > And you should. = > But if you like to be 'cute' and obscure, you can also use:  > 
 > $ last=2 > $ last=f$ext(1,2,100+last) > $ show symb last >   LAST = "02"  >  > gag! > :-)  >  > Hein.  >     9 Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> wrote on 03/26/2005 03:44:11 AM:   D > All these examples are not the best way to accomplish the desired  > result, since 2 > you need special coding for the months 10 to 12. > J > For this purpose you should use the F$Fao lexical, like in this example: >  > $!
 > $ last=2 > $! > $ last =  F$Fao("!2ZL",last) > $! > $ show symbol last >    LAST = "02" > $! > $! ========================= > $! > $ last=12  > $! > $ last =  F$Fao("!2ZL",last) > $! > $ show symbol last >    LAST = "12" > $! > $! ========================= > $! > $ last=12  > $! > $ last =  F$Fao("!4ZL",last) > $! > $ show symbol last >    LAST = "0012" > $! > $ exit > K > The F$Fao("!#ZL",<symbol>) lexical will take the numeric symbol <symbol>   as  D > input, and return a ascii string of # bytes wide with added extra  > zeroes to the  > left if necessary. > F > The problem with this lexical is that there are not many examples in > the manual, I > which makes it a bit hard to understand how to use it. However it is a   lot ' > easier than it looks at first glance.  >  >  > norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:  > > 5 > > I found this in a DCL procedure (last is actually 8 > > calculated as a month-related single-digit integer): > >  > > $ last=2  > > $ last = f$string("0"'last') > > $ sho sym last > >   LAST = "02" 	 > > $!=== # > > Now I would have expected this:  > >  > > $ last=2 > > $ last="0''last'"  > > $ sho sym last > >   LAST = "02" 	 > > $!===  > > or maybe this: > >  > > $ last=2! > > $ last = f$string("0''last'")  > > $ sho sym last > > $!  LAST = "02"  > > === , > > but what exactly is the first one doing?/ > > Is there any advantage or difference in the  > > result from them?  > >  > > 8 > > $HELP LEXICALS  F$STRING    Argument      expression > > > > >          The integer or string expression to be evaluated. > > H > >          If you specify an integer expression, the F$STRING functionH > >          evaluates the expression, converts the resulting integer toF > >          a string, and returns the result. If you specify a stringH > >          expression, the F$STRING function evaluates the expression  and   > >          returns the result. > > J > >          When converting an integer to a string, the F$STRING functionF > >          uses decimal representation and omits leading zeros. WhenJ > >          converting a negative integer, the F$STRING function places aF > >          minus sign at the beginning string representation of the  integer.  " --=_alternative 007C33A185256FD0_=+ Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"     I <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">All responses so far add nicely to the 9 literature and I found them at worst interesting, </font> F <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">but they do not answer my questions about f$integer, </font>M <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">just in case someone would like to address  them.</font> <br>O <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">I think f$fao would be best in the procedure * in question, but I didn't write it.</font> <br>H <br><font size=2><tt>JF Mezei &lt;jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com&gt; wrote on 03/26/2005 02:10:55 PM:<br> <br> &gt; Hein wrote:<br>I &gt; &gt; But if you like to be 'cute' and obscure, you can also use:<br>  &gt; &gt; <br> &gt; &gt; $ last=2<br>( &gt; &gt; $ last=f$ext(1,2,100+last)<br> &gt; &gt; $ show symb last<br>* &gt; &gt; &nbsp; LAST = &quot;02&quot;<br> &gt; &gt; <br> &gt; &gt; gag!<br>	 &gt; <br> G &gt; I didn't know that one could abbreviate lexicals ! Learn something  every day.<br>	 &gt; <br> I &gt; The above tactic has the advantage of always returning 2 digits even  if<br>L &gt; &quot;last&quot; ends up being 1 ,2 or 3 digits. F$FAO(&quot;!2ZL&quot; &nbsp;would return ** if<br># &gt; the number were above 99).<br>  </tt></font> <br>G <br><font size=2><tt>&quot;Hein&quot; &lt;hein_news@eps.zko.dec.com&gt; $ wrote on 03/26/2005 01:26:58 PM:<br> <br>	 &gt; <br>  &gt; Dirk Munk wrote:<br> O &gt; &gt; All these examples are not the best way to accomplish the desired<br>  &gt; result, since<br>> &gt; &gt; you need special coding for the months 10 to 12.<br>
 &gt; &gt;<br> M &gt; &gt; For this purpose you should use the F$Fao lexical, like in this<br>  &gt; example:<br> 	 &gt; <br>  &gt; And you should.<br>D &gt; But if you like to be 'cute' and obscure, you can also use:<br>	 &gt; <br>  &gt; $ last=2<br> # &gt; $ last=f$ext(1,2,100+last)<br>  &gt; $ show symb last<br> % &gt; &nbsp; LAST = &quot;02&quot;<br> 	 &gt; <br> 
 &gt; gag!<br>  &gt; :-)<br>	 &gt; <br>  &gt; Hein.<br>	 &gt; <br>  </tt></font> <br>G <br><font size=2><tt>Dirk Munk &lt;munk@home.nl&gt; wrote on 03/26/2005  03:44:11 AM:<br> <br>F &gt; All these examples are not the best way to accomplish the desired <br> &gt; result, since <br> 9 &gt; you need special coding for the months 10 to 12.<br> 	 &gt; <br> Q &gt; For this purpose you should use the F$Fao lexical, like in this example:<br> 	 &gt; <br>  &gt; $!<br>  &gt; $ last=2<br>  &gt; $!<br> 4 &gt; $ last = &nbsp;F$Fao(&quot;!2ZL&quot;,last)<br> &gt; $!<br>  &gt; $ show symbol last<br> + &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;LAST = &quot;02&quot;<br>  &gt; $!<br> % &gt; $! =========================<br>  &gt; $!<br>  &gt; $ last=12<br> &gt; $!<br> 4 &gt; $ last = &nbsp;F$Fao(&quot;!2ZL&quot;,last)<br> &gt; $!<br>n &gt; $ show symbol last<br> + &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;LAST = &quot;12&quot;<br>i &gt; $!<br> % &gt; $! =========================<br>n &gt; $!<br>  &gt; $ last=12<br> &gt; $!<br> 4 &gt; $ last = &nbsp;F$Fao(&quot;!4ZL&quot;,last)<br> &gt; $!<br>t &gt; $ show symbol last<br>r- &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp;LAST = &quot;0012&quot;<br>r &gt; $!<br>i &gt; $ exit<br>s	 &gt; <br>iM &gt; The F$Fao(&quot;!#ZL&quot;,&lt;symbol&gt;) lexical will take the numeric  symbol &lt;symbol&gt; as <br> F &gt; input, and return a ascii string of # bytes wide with added extra <br> &gt; zeroes to the <br>l &gt; left if necessary.<br>E	 &gt; <br>-F &gt; The problem with this lexical is that there are not many examples in<br> &gt; the manual, <br>0F &gt; which makes it a bit hard to understand how to use it. However it
 is a lot <br>e. &gt; easier than it looks at first glance.<br>	 &gt; <br>n	 &gt; <br> & &gt; norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:<br> &gt; &gt; <br>? &gt; &gt; I found this in a DCL procedure (last is actually<br>mB &gt; &gt; calculated as a month-related single-digit integer):<br> &gt; &gt; <br> &gt; &gt; $ last=2<br>4 &gt; &gt; $ last = f$string(&quot;0&quot;'last')<br> &gt; &gt; $ sho sym last<br>* &gt; &gt; &nbsp; LAST = &quot;02&quot;<br> &gt; &gt; $!===<br> - &gt; &gt; Now I would have expected this:<br>  &gt; &gt; <br> &gt; &gt; $ last=2<br>) &gt; &gt; $ last=&quot;0''last'&quot;<br>i &gt; &gt; $ sho sym last<br>* &gt; &gt; &nbsp; LAST = &quot;02&quot;<br> &gt; &gt; $!===<br>e &gt; &gt; or maybe this:<br> &gt; &gt; <br> &gt; &gt; $ last=2<br>5 &gt; &gt; $ last = f$string(&quot;0''last'&quot;)<br>e &gt; &gt; $ sho sym last<br>, &gt; &gt; $! &nbsp;LAST = &quot;02&quot;<br> &gt; &gt; ===<br>,6 &gt; &gt; but what exactly is the first one doing?<br>9 &gt; &gt; Is there any advantage or difference in the<br>I &gt; &gt; result from them?<br>" &gt; &gt; <br> &gt; &gt; <br>K &gt; &gt; $HELP LEXICALS &nbsp;F$STRING &nbsp; &nbsp;Argument &nbsp; &nbsp;i &nbsp;expression<br> &gt; &gt; <br>L &gt; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;The integer or string expression to be evaluated.<br> &gt; &gt; <br>Q &gt; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;If you specify an integer expression,  the F$STRING function<br>aN &gt; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;evaluates the expression, converts the resulting integer to<br>M &gt; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;a string, and returns the result.n If you specify a string<br>vM &gt; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;expression, the F$STRING functiont  evaluates the expression and<br>C &gt; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;returns the result.<br>  &gt; &gt; <br>F &gt; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;When converting an integer& to a string, the F$STRING function<br>G &gt; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;uses decimal representation'! and omits leading zeros. When<br>nJ &gt; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;converting a negative integer," the F$STRING function places a<br>G &gt; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;minus sign at the beginningp) string representation of the integer.<br>s </tt></font>$ --=_alternative 007C33A185256FD0_=--   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 01:05:08 +0100K& From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>, Subject: Re: Question on DCL f<dollar>string, Message-ID: <3ambkcF6b144sU1@individual.net>   norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:t   > H > All responses so far add nicely to the literature and I found them at  > worst interesting,6 > but they do not answer my questions about f$integer,2 > just in case someone would like to address them. > I > I think f$fao would be best in the procedure in question, but I didn't o > write it.- > - Maybe, but f$string is also your friend. See:r   $ help lex f$string examplev   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 01:35:20 +0100e From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>, Subject: Re: Question on DCL f<dollar>string2 Message-ID: <d24v4e$esr$1@news3.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>   norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:  > H > All responses so far add nicely to the literature and I found them at  > worst interesting,6 > but they do not answer my questions about f$integer,2 > just in case someone would like to address them. >   / I suppose you mean f$string, and not f$integer.d  M The answer is that F$String doesn't do anything in this example. F$String is hO suppose to convert numeric expressions to ASCII strings, however in this piece II of coding there is only ASCII as input. The last symbol has already been uP translated to ASCII before F$String can convert it. So F$String only gets ASCII P as input, and doesn't do any conversion or anything else. In fact because there @ is ASCII in the argument, F$String will never do any conversion.   Look at this example:s   $ last = "last"r $ last = F$String("0"'last') $ sho symbol lasti    LAST = "0LAST"s $p  = You can get the same result by omitting the F$String lexical:e   $ last = "last"  $ last = "0"'last' $ sho symb lastn    LAST = "0LAST"a $n  : This would have been correct coding, although a bit silly:   $ last=2 $ last = "0" + F$String(last)u $ sho symbol last     LAST = "02" $a  & You can get the same result with this:  
 $ last = 2 $ last = "0" + "''last'" $ sho symbol lastU    LAST = "02" $a   Or with your example:P  
 $ last = 2 $ last = "0''last'"e $ sho symbol last/    LAST = "02" $s  ' This is what F$String is suppose to do:c   $ first = 14
 $ last = 1% $ last = "0" + F$String(first + last)e $ sho symbol lastt    LAST = "02" $:   Or even better this:   $ first = 1  $ last = 10e% $ last = "0" + F$String(first - last)r $ sho symbol lasta    LAST = "0-9"  $n   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 21:55:59 +0000 (UTC)BP From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: TCPIP SHOW HOST/SERVERe$ Message-ID: <d24lpe$qr0$1@online.de>  =   Compaq TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS VAX Version V5.3 - ECO 4    Sometimes, the output of w  %    TCPIP> SHOW HOST/SERVER=servernameb  C shows the servername specified, and sometimes it shows the default  C server name.  The behaviour seems to be rather unpredictable.  Can   anyone reproduce this?   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.171 ************************