1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 02 May 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 244       Contents: Re: Appletalk on Alphas  Re: Appletalk on Alphas 4 Re: Can OpenVMS use Active Directory instead of UAF?% Re: Check Apple's X server versus VMS  Re: Compiler bug check) Finally, some good news (at least for me) - Re: Finally, some good news (at least for me) - Re: Finally, some good news (at least for me) % RE: finding the (biggest) bottle neck C Re: Lexical function to set environmental variables of AlphaStation 8 Re: Maybe HP should get out of the hardware business....8 Re: Maybe HP should get out of the hardware business....8 Re: Maybe HP should get out of the hardware business....8 Re: Maybe HP should get out of the hardware business....8 Re: Maybe HP should get out of the hardware business....8 Re: Maybe HP should get out of the hardware business....8 Re: Maybe HP should get out of the hardware business....8 Re: Maybe HP should get out of the hardware business....3 Re: mysql #1030 - Got error 127 from storage engine  Re: question on directory sizes  Re: question on directory sizes ! Re: Replacing Shadowed Boot Drive ! RE: Replacing Shadowed Boot Drive ! Re: Replacing Shadowed Boot Drive $ Re: Sandia says alpha the best chip!$ Re: Sandia says alpha the best chip!) Re: SYS$SYSROOT and similar logical names ) Re: SYS$SYSROOT and similar logical names ) Re: SYS$SYSROOT and similar logical names  Re: TCPIP V5.5 on OpenVMS V8.20 Update on VMS artwork (Vernon the shark mascott)4 Re: Update on VMS artwork (Vernon the shark mascott)4 Re: Update on VMS artwork (Vernon the shark mascott)+ Re: What is Different or Special About VMS? + Re: What is Different or Special About VMS? + Re: What is Different or Special About VMS? + Re: What is Different or Special About VMS? + Re: What is Different or Special About VMS? + Re: What is Different or Special About VMS? + RE: What is Different or Special About VMS? ! Re: What is SMTP status code 556? ! Re: What is SMTP status code 556? ! Re: What is SMTP status code 556? ! Re: What is SMTP status code 556? ! Re: What is SMTP status code 556? ! Re: What is SMTP status code 556? ! Re: What is SMTP status code 556? ! Re: What is SMTP status code 556?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 08:58:47 -0700 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>   Subject: Re: Appletalk on Alphas+ Message-ID: <d55ino$1kk$1@naig.caltech.edu>    Ed Wilts wrote: E >>It is one thing to not get new software like firefox etc, but it is  >  > even > C >>worse when you stop supporting software that was available in the  >  > past.  > H > HP didn't stop supporting it - they sold the product rights to anotherE > company over 5 years ago.  Now perhaps they shouldn't have sold the C > product off to somebody who then wanted to screw us over (anybody D > remember the price quotes to certify Y2K compliance?), but in thisA > case, it's the fault of the product owner, not VMS Engineering.   D As far as I know that is not correct.  There were three parts to theF Pathworks/Mac product, the client was Thursby, the file sharing stuff A was licensed from Alisa, and the transport itself was apparently  F licenced directly from Apple.  The second part was licensed from Alisa= when Rob Denny was still CEO of that company.  Afterwards the : rights for things Alisa were bought by "Fabrik" which thenA morphed into "ROI Direct.com".  By this time they had no interest E whatsoever in things VMS.  Dennis Bell, VP Operations ROI Direct.com, @ officially waived their interests in all such things in an email@ to me Oct 21,1999 which was then forwarded to Compaq. Since that> was pre-dot.com burst the odds are that that company no longerE exists.  Their "web site" http://www.roi-direct.com/ is one of those  @ "future home of a registered domain" pages.  I feel that at this= point the 2nd component of Pathworks/Mac (file sharing, maybe 0 the printer level) is certifiably "abandonware".  F The appletalk transport was apparently licensed from Apple under termsA that did not allow it to be perpetually ported to newer platforms  and/or OS versions.   G There was a rumor that a company named SR International was in the mix  0 somewhere.  I never did figure out where though.  ? The person I dealt with at Compaq concerning these licenses was 4 Jeff Babington.  No idea if he's still there or not.  F I gave up in disgust after a few months of this.  Far, far, FAR easierF to move off of VMS than to put up with this sort of nonsense over what/ had become for us essentially a printer driver.   ? I pretty much doubt that HP could straighten out this licensing  mess even if they wanted to.   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 16:35:49 GMT * From: Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com>  Subject: Re: Appletalk on Alphas5 Message-ID: <020520051235105991%paul.anderson@hp.com>   8 In article <d55ino$1kk$1@naig.caltech.edu>, David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu> wrote:    > Ed Wilts wrote:  > > B > > HP didn't stop supporting it - they sold the product rights toF > > another company over 5 years ago.  Now perhaps they shouldn't haveE > > sold the product off to somebody who then wanted to screw us over G > > (anybody remember the price quotes to certify Y2K compliance?), but > > > in this case, it's the fault of the product owner, not VMS > > Engineering. > D > There was a rumor that a company named SR International was in the6 > mix somewhere.  I never did figure out where though.  D Compaq had an agreement with SRI (the people who sell CHARON-VAX) to@ have them offer a Y2K-compliant version of PATHWORKS for OpenVMSG (Macintosh) and to offer updates that would run with future versions of  OpenVMS.  C No one bought it AFAIK, probably due to the high price and the fact G that most people were using it to share a few volumes and print to some G printers.  The product had already been unsupported for a few years, so C running an unsupported product didn't scare too many users in 1999.   G As we now now, there were no Y2K problems in the product.  The offer to D provide versions that worked with future OpenVMS versions would sure come in handy now, though.   Paul   --    Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineering    Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2005 17:31:40 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)= Subject: Re: Can OpenVMS use Active Directory instead of UAF? , Message-ID: <3dn6fsF6uivo6U1@individual.net>  1 In article <964A88682wspenceraporg@216.168.3.30>, 4 	wspencer@ap.dontspamme.org (Warren Spencer) writes: > Hi Folks,  > L > I've spent some time going through the Advanced Server (AS) and Pathworks N > (PW) documentation, but I don't seem to be getting the answers I need.  I'm 3 > hoping someone here might be able to help me out.   F Yeah, what he said.  And while someone is answering his question aboutG something similar regarding Radius?  I have Active Directory available, D but I also have radius and anything that will keep me from having toF give the students yet another password to loose would sure make my job easier.    bill   > L > We have approx 20 OpenVMS boxes relevant to this issue; some stand-alone, G > some configured into clusters.  On some clusters/boxes, we have many  L > (hundreds of) users that log in interactively.  But a given user may need B > to log into different nodes, and we're looking for a way to do, L > essentially, UAF synchronization.  Due to application contraints, we need D > to ensure that a given user is in the same UIC group on all nodes. > M > On average, each user will have 8 accounts on separate boxes/clusters that  N > need to be synchronized.  We currently have some (very old) DCL that helps, , > but it doesn't do the synchronization bit. > N > I've been asked to either add new features to this bag of DCL to accomplish 3 > the synchronization, or come up with a different  M > authorization/synchronization technique.  AS/Pathworks was my first guess,  M > but the parts I've read all center around the notion of Domains and Domain  N > Controllers.  Around here, we're using Active Directory, which brings me to K > my first question.  If AS/PW works with Domains, does that imply it will   > work with AD?  > M > Ideally, I'd like to install something on the OpenVMS boxes that says "Use  L > AD to authorize certain users".  I see the EXTAUTH flag in the UAF, which M > leads to my next question:  If EXTAUTH is asserted for a given user, where  M > is the UIC for process creation taken from?  Can it come from the external  K > authorization engine, or is it taken from the UAF?  This is probably the  J > most crutial question, since UIC synchronization is high on the list of * > manadatory requirements for this effort. > J > LDAP would be my second guess, and I would sure appreciate hearing from I > anyone that has this running well.  I'd re-ask the same question about  > > UIC's though - does it come from the LDAP server of the UAF? > J > So if anyone has some wisdom they would share on this topic, I would be  > grateful indeed! >  > Tia, >  > ws >    --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2005 07:53:42 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) . Subject: Re: Check Apple's X server versus VMS3 Message-ID: <H1frnDsLdwGT@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <3mqce.11$Fj4.122@news.uswest.net>, "Michael D. Ober" <mdo.@.wakeassoc..com> writes:   # > Apple's OS X is based on Linux.     G    No, it is not.  Apple's kernel is a BSD on a Mach micro-kernel.  The F    Linux kernel (which _IS_ Linux) is a separate development from BSD.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 13:10:02 GMT % From: cdm <charlie.mccutcheon@hp.com>  Subject: Re: Compiler bug check & Message-ID: <427626A9.55448C9A@hp.com>    >VCG doesn''t generate assembly.  J For most people, there isn't much difference in assembly and machine code./ Code from VCG does not go through an assembler.   K The message mentioned the middle end, and the VCG.  Technically, the VCG is K the back end, the end of code generation.  Middle end would be the compiler N specific generation of the tuples for the VCG.  Perhaps the problem was in theN middle end creating segments to run through the VCG.  Hard to tell without anyL more information (and I'm not volunteering to do anything if the information
 shows up 8-).   M (Stuck in wrong mind frame from working with a GNU based compiler lately that G *does* generate assembly code which then does go through an assembler).    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 09:41:31 -0400) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> 2 Subject: Finally, some good news (at least for me)8 Message-ID: <n6qde.1131$3U.227937@news20.bellglobal.com>  ) Finally, some good news (at least for me)     F People who know me also know that my employer is notoriously cheap. SoL imagine my surprise when my boss asked me in January "what changes we shouldF make to our business in 2005?", and I responded "we need to get a fullL annual OpenVMS software support contract with HP". He wanted to know why andG I told him "that, aside from buying new machines, it is the only way to I signal HP that we're still serious about OpenVMS". He (and the management J above him) agreed so a phone call was made, and a contract was signed, and: the first quarterly CD-ROM kit just hit my desk last week.  I My employer is very "Microsoft centric" so I see this is a very big deal.   
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2005 07:17:14 -0700  From: bob@instantwhip.com 6 Subject: Re: Finally, some good news (at least for me)C Message-ID: <1115043434.423292.162270@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   + what took them so long?  A bronze 1 year is 
 only $684 ...    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 10:20:40 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 6 Subject: Re: Finally, some good news (at least for me), Message-ID: <QNCdnfM_wKSiquvfRVn-1A@igs.net>   bob@instantwhip.com wrote:- > what took them so long?  A bronze 1 year is  > only $684 ...     J He said his emplyer was *cheap* didn't he? Apparently they are very cheap.     --F OpenVMS - The never advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 08:06:59 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> . Subject: RE: finding the (biggest) bottle neckR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB5ECF1B@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----7 > From: Jack Patteeuw [mailto:jjpatteeuw@nospam.net]=20  > Sent: May 1, 2005 10:39 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com , > Subject: finding the (biggest) bottle neck >=20J > I have just recently gotten back into VMS after 10 years on the "dark=20 > side" (Tru64 and Solaris). >=20I > The biggest problem we have with our mixed VAX (3 - 7630)/Alpha (1 -=20 J > GS140) cluster is backups.  Full backups can take over 14 hours using=20 > ABS/MDMS.  >=20H > All disk are on one CI, with HSJ40 and HSJ50 controllers.  Most are=20A > JBOD, but we want to RAID 5 some, which I know will probably=20  > slow disk I/O. >=20F > All tape (TZ88's) are on another CI using a different HSJ50.  The=20; > previous Sys Admin says adding more tape drives to the=20  > process did not=20> > improve thing (we are only using 4-6, but have 12 available) >=20J > We have an extremely limited budget, so I need to figure out where to=20? > get the "most bang for the buck" with any upgrade.  My gut=20  > says, upgrade=20D > the tapes to TZ89, but I need some proof.  Or would we get more=20+ > performance out of a HSJ80 on the disks ?  >=20@ > I need suggestions on how to measure the "capacity" of each=20 > CI as well=20 ? > as the throughput of the HSJ's and the processors themselves.  >=20   Jack,   F Fwiw, a similar environment took the approach of using a small DS25 toG act as a tape server (and occasional batch job server) with a dedicated  tape drive.   H This might be outside your budget, but it kept the cpu / memory /adapterC backup loads off the other Alpha and VAX systems they had which was * dedicated to interactive and applic tasks.  H It also made for some interesting justifications for subsequent upgradesD as they could see that some of their jobs which ran for 10+ hours on6 VAX's ran in about an hour on the new "tape server"...   :-)    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 08:11:39 -0400+ From: Chip Coldwell <coldwell@gmail.nospam> L Subject: Re: Lexical function to set environmental variables of AlphaStationA Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0505020806340.26799@frank.harvard.edu>   , On Sat, 30 Apr 2005, David J Dachtera wrote:   > Tom Linden wrote:  >>7 >> On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 21:33:13 -0500, David J Dachtera % >> <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote:  >> >>> Meat Loaf wrote: >>>> >>>> Rudolf Wingert wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> J >>>>> AFAIK there is an undocumented lexical function to set environmental6 >>>>> variables. Does anybody know how it can be done? >>>>>   >>>>> TIA and regards R. Wingert >>>>F >>>>   F$CONTEXT  F$CSID     F$CVSI     F$CVTIME   F$CVUI     F$DEVICE@ >>>>   F$DIRECTORY           F$EDIT     F$ELEMENT  F$ENVIRONMENTF >>>>   F$EXTRACT  F$FAO      F$FILE_ATTRIBUTES     F$GETDVI   F$GETJPIF >>>>   F$GETQUI   F$GETSYI   F$IDENTIFIER          F$INTEGER  F$LENGTHC >>>>   F$LOCATE   F$MESSAGE  F$MODE                F$PARSE    F$PID F >>>>   F$PRIVILEGE           F$PROCESS  F$SEARCH   F$SETPRV   F$STRING; >>>>   F$TIME     F$TRNLNM   F$TYPE     F$USER     F$VERIFY  >>>>F >>>> These are the only lexicals on my 6.2 and 7.3 Alpha's.  Was there7 >>>> something that you were trying to do specifically?  >>> G >>> F$GETENV() is present all the way back to at least V7.2, but is not # >>> documented in the on-line HELP.  >>> G >>> I'll have to find the address to TELNET to the V8.2 nodes on the HP K >>> TestDrive cluster and check it out there. Dunno if F$SETENV() ever made ! >>> it into a production release.  >>> / >> http://www-vms.gsi.de/HELP/LEXICALS/F_GETENV  >>	 >> On 7.3 & >> FREJA> echo f$getenv("auto_action") >> BOOT  > @ > Hhhmmm... How 'bout F$SETENV, which is what the OP is seeking?  H A while ago I posted a program that apparently re-invented the f$getenv D wheel.  It can be trivially modified to implement a setenv function 8 (change the constant HWRPB_CRB$K_GET_ENV in getenv.c to J HWRPB_CRB$K_SET_ENV and add a parameter for the value).  Also, my program J doesn't limit you to the architecturally specified SRM variables that are G listed on the website above; you can get/set any variable provided you   know the spelling.   The thread is here   http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/browse_thread/thread/2c98fe408fc64999/cb3d4712a83bb36d?q=coldwell+group:comp.os.vms&rnum=1&hl=en#cb3d4712a83bb36d    Chip   --   Charles M. "Chip" Coldwell Turn on, log in, tune out    ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2005 01:46:20 -0700  From: icerq4a@spray.seA Subject: Re: Maybe HP should get out of the hardware business.... C Message-ID: <1115023580.745670.272570@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    b...@instantwhip.com wrote: C > intel could still start making alpha ev79s and put the alpha team 
 > back on ev8   G No, Intel has no right to sell Alpha CPUs. They have everything else of B Alpha, but they cannot sell Alpha CPUs... unless they talk with HP first.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2005 01:37:06 -0700  From: icerq4a@spray.seA Subject: Re: Maybe HP should get out of the hardware business.... C Message-ID: <1115023026.505092.309010@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>    Bill Todd wrote: > icerq4a@spray.se wrote:  >  > ...  > F > >>If Intel had better Xeons right now AMD wouldn't be selling nearly soG > >>many high end chips so yes Intel would be selling more CPUs and AMD 	 > >>less.  > >  > >  > > I don't think so.  >  > I do.    OK.   6 >   The only thing thing Xeon was late with was 64-bit > > support  > 6 > No, it's also *very* late to the on-chip routing and memory-controller  > party.  D I don't have a different view on that they are late on these things.B What I mean is that I don't think they would have happened anyway.E Those decisions have not been a resource thing, they have merely been # "political" decisions within Intel.   B > Intel has had the Alpha team for almost 4 years now.  Had it notB > frittered their efforts away on Itanic it could have applied theG > technology which they brought with them (already fully-developed, and   F > Intel has the rights to put it to use) to P4/Xeon - which is in factD > what a lot of us expected them to do (though with Itanic) when theD > technology-transfer took place, and we expected it to appear right about  > now.  B Yes, but I believe HP was not interested in also doing the same to PA-RISC.  ? > > it would not have been better in performance or power usage 
 > > and such.  > C > Why not?  If Intel hadn't been counting on Itanic to start taking  overC > Xeon's server duties, it might have had the sense to realize that E > extending the Prescott pipeline from the already-long Northwood 20+ ? > stages to 30+ stages in the pursuit of higher clock rates (as A > distinguished from performance) for marketing purposes would be  severely> > counter-productive in the server space (the Alpha team could	 certainly B > have told them that had they not been focused solely on Itanic).  . Most of these decisions were done before 2001.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2005 01:43:31 -0700  From: icerq4a@spray.seA Subject: Re: Maybe HP should get out of the hardware business.... A Message-ID: <1115023411.774002.6380@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>    Dave Froble wrote: > icerq4a@spray.se wrote:  > A > > I don't think so. The only thing thing Xeon was late with was  64-bit > > support, > G > Intel's mantra was, no 64 bits for x86, it's not needed, and it won't   G > happen, no way, no how, no where.  It wasn't late!  It wasn't suppost  to > ever happen!  A Intels mantra was 64-bit for the desktop is years away. They were  wrong.) What that desktop ISA was is not obvious.   4 > And could they even come up with their own design?  ! They had their own x86-64 design.    > No way!  MicrosoftG > let them know that there would be only one version of x86-64 windows,     > and it would be AMD's version.  1 Yes, AMD was more eager and in the front on this.   F > And even after they had to copy AMD's chips, they still left off the onC > chip memory controller, and their product just isn't competitive.   < Xeon is competetive. Look for example at IBM's Xeon servers.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2005 05:22:58 -0700 * From: "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net>A Subject: Re: Maybe HP should get out of the hardware business.... C Message-ID: <1115036578.242313.149810@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   F > I don't have a different view on that they are late on these things.D > What I mean is that I don't think they would have happened anyway.G > Those decisions have not been a resource thing, they have merely been % > "political" decisions within Intel.   < What do you think of this "political" decision within Intel? --- + http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=3D22950 % "Intel shuffles chip architects about    Project Z man moves on  / By Charlie Demerjian: Monday 02 May 2005, 11:31 D THE INTEL EXECUSHUFFLE=99 continues, last week it was the Alpha guysE taking the reigns of some very important projects at Intel. This week F brings news of another one, but there is more to it than it might look$ like on the surface. First read this@ http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=3D20286 , and then read thisF http://www.intel.com/pressroom/kits/bios/tfossum.htm . This is totally
 unrelated.  B OK, now that you are up to speed, let's let you in on something weG didn't print a few months ago. When we first heard about the mysterious G "Project Z", we heard two things. It was IPF based and it was headed by F a one Mr. Fossum. Six months later, and Mr. Fossum is now working on a Xeon. 2 + 2 =3D?  G Either way, I really want to see what becomes of the post Nehalem Xeons G all of a sudden, there is some amazing firepower being put behind them.  =B5" ---    --=20 
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2005 13:13:17 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)A Subject: Re: Maybe HP should get out of the hardware business.... , Message-ID: <3dmnbdF6pm9d9U2@individual.net>  C In article <1115039137.860625.309640@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,  	bob@instantwhip.com writes:0 > why didn't you write him some applications? :) >   > Stop being such an ass.  You know perfectly well what the term "applications" means.   B And it wasn't a professor in my department.  His department has no computing staff whatsoever.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2005 06:05:37 -0700  From: bob@instantwhip.com A Subject: Re: Maybe HP should get out of the hardware business.... C Message-ID: <1115039137.860625.309640@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   . why didn't you write him some applications? :)   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 10:11:59 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> A Subject: Re: Maybe HP should get out of the hardware business.... , Message-ID: <6fOdnQ8kaYKoqOvfRVn-ug@igs.net>   bob@instantwhip.com wrote:C > intel could still start making alpha ev79s and put the alpha team ? > back on ev8 ... and windows 2000 runs on alpha ... makes good @ > sense ... alpha and xeon would be a formidable lineup againset( > ams or anyone else for that matter ...     Windows 2000 beta runs on VMS.7 IIRC there was no production release of Win2K on Alpha. > http://www.windowsitpro.com/Article/ArticleID/18842/18842.html    J Also on that 1999 article is a supposition by Shannon that there were onlyG 500,000 Alpha systems sold up to that time, which when you take all the L VAxen and Alpha's produced less those that have gone to the crusher less allH those known to be mothballed, probably puts the number of active systems5 still in the field at less than the mythical 411,000.      --F OpenVMS - The never advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 14:43:12 GMT ! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> A Subject: Re: Maybe HP should get out of the hardware business.... 8 Message-ID: <n1fc71pt76f8sj3atvm5di6kum9ubru6uk@4ax.com>  G On Mon, 2 May 2005 10:11:59 -0400, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> wrote:    >bob@instantwhip.com wrote: D >> intel could still start making alpha ev79s and put the alpha team@ >> back on ev8 ... and windows 2000 runs on alpha ... makes goodA >> sense ... alpha and xeon would be a formidable lineup againset ) >> ams or anyone else for that matter ...  >  >  >Windows 2000 beta runs on VMS. 8 >IIRC there was no production release of Win2K on Alpha.? >http://www.windowsitpro.com/Article/ArticleID/18842/18842.html   P It got to RC1 or RC2 IIRC. The original 64 bit Windows work was done on Alpha as" there was no Itanium at that time.   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 09:39:16 +0200 1 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jean-Fran=E7ois_Pi=E9ronne?= < Subject: Re: mysql #1030 - Got error 127 from storage engine5 Message-ID: <4275d928$0$815$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>    Chris Sharman wrote: > Jean-Franois Pironne wrote:  >  >> Chris Sharman wrote:  >>! >>> Jean-Franois Pironne wrote:  >>> ( >>>> Which storage engine have you used? >>>>E >>>> Only Innodb work correctly, MyISAM is know to have some problem. J >>>> Anyway ony Innodb support transaction, so I strongly suggest to only J >>>> use this storage engine, this is the default on OpenVMS and probably  >>>> in future MySQL version.  >>>  >>> G >>> Innodb is the default, right ? I didn't change it. [vms]my.cnf has  G >>> lines relating to innodb, and the rest are commented out. I didn't   >>> make any changes.  >> >>G >> Right, Innodb is the default, but you can specify when you create a  = >> table which storage engine you want to use for this table.  >> You can use, >> mysql> show table status like 'my_table'; >>) >> to check which storage engine is used.  >  > J > Seems like MyISAM is the default, and the only engine supported for the  > system tables.  C Correct, don't convert system tables, MyISAM is the only supported  - engine for the system tables (mysql database)   I > I've put "default-table-type=innodb" in the [mysqld] section of my.cnf  ) > and restarted - it wasn't there before.  >   2 It was in the MYSQL_ROOT:[VMS.MYSQL]run_mysqld.com7 which use the qualifier --default-storage-engine=InnoDB   G note also the --ansi  qualifier, if you don't need this just remove it.   D > I've also done: "alter table <name> type=innodb;" to all my issue H > tracker tables (but not to mysql or mysql_help). Doing that seemed to F > lose some data too, but I'm hoping that that will be the end of the  > suspect data.  > 6 > What are the known problems with the MyISAM engine ?  E The most frequent problem is a corruption of the lengh of the record. * Most of the time a repair fix the problem.    A > What engine are other people seeing used (show table status;) ? + > Has anyone got a default-table-type set ?  >     E I know site which use MySQL on VMS using InnoDB on multi GB database  F with millions records without more problems than on another OS, which " do't mean without any problems ;-)    
 Jean-Franois    ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2005 06:30:58 -0700 % From: "djesys" <djesys@earthlink.net> ( Subject: Re: question on directory sizesB Message-ID: <1115040658.554119.31620@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   derek pietro wrote: F > I must copy a large number of files to a disk from an optical deviceA > then use another process to copy them off of the vms machine to  another 
 > machine.: > I must also use long file names as part of this process. > E > In other experiences, I've learned to check for enough space on the   > disk during such an adventure.F > The problem I'm encountering is that I'm (apparently) running out ofF > directory space, as opposed to (what I'd expect) running out of disk > space.  C What leads you to believe you are "running out of directory space"?  What message are you receiving?   E I'd also be curious to know why you don't just copy directly from the  optical medium?   = > I was using disk space as a throttling mechanism, but never  runningout.  > F > I need to use directory entries space as a throttle, or simply put aG > counter inside the c-code and limit myself with some hard count as to  > the number of files created.  F The issue is not file count. A directory can register as many files as: the volume can hold - directories are not limited in size.  C However, directories *MUST* still be contiguous, AFAIK. So, if your ? target volume has an issue with free space fragmentation, it is C possible that at some point, a directory cannot be expanded to hold D more entries. If you are re-INITIALIZE-ing the volume every time youC start over, this could still be a possibility, especially since you @ mention "long" file names (whatever that might mean). If you areC deleting all files and directories every time you start over, it is @ more likely that you'll be "bitten" by free space fragmentation,G although the directories should retain their existing allocation (i.e., F do not follow the deletes with SET FILE/TRUNCATE on the directories)..  B > I'd prefer to be able to see how much dir space is available and "wait"A > on it as it is provides a more consise mechanism to "sleep" on.  > D > I've tried to find - with no success yet - a means to see how much% > directory space is available to me.   G Can be calculated as the directory size (in clusters), plus one cluster G subracted from the total number of free clusters on the volume. Compare C that to the largest contiguous extent on the volume. If there isn't C enough contiguous free space to extend the directory, the operation 
 will fail.  / > this is being done in C, on VMS 7.2 on alpha. 2 > Can someone shed some light that may be helpful?G > When things get all hung up for me, I've about 27000 files on my disk 9 > that I end up having to copy off then delete, manually.   G You'll want to look into something called DFU - Disk/File Utility. It's A on the OpenVMS Freeware CDs, and also available on line at the HP F OpenVMS website. DFU can do a "DELTREE" operation much faster than any DCL-based operation.  G Be careful also that you're not exhausting the number of available file @ headers in the INDEXF.SYS file. In ODS-2, this file must also beG limited: it can only have one file header, no extension headers. So, it F is limited as to the number extents it can have. If the message you'reG getting suggests "index file is full", that's what you're "hitting your B head" on. The work-around there is to re-INITIALIZE the volume andD specify a large number as the value for the /HEADERS qualifier. ThisG will "pre-extend" the INDEXF.SYS file thus ensuring it does not need to  be extended there after.   -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2005 08:03:37 -0700 $ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>( Subject: Re: question on directory sizesB Message-ID: <1115046217.892462.61250@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>  
 djesys wrote:  > derek pietro wrote: A > > I must copy a large number of files to a disk from an optical  deviceC > > then use another process to copy them off of the vms machine to 	 > another  > > machine.< > > I must also use long file names as part of this process. > >2G > > In other experiences, I've learned to check for enough space on the " > > disk during such an adventure.E > > The problem I'm encountering is that I'm (apparently) running oute ofC > > directory space, as opposed to (what I'd expect) running out ofa disk
 > > space. >aE > What leads you to believe you are "running out of directory space"?i! > What message are you receiving?e    @ This would be a BIG HELP: What error messages do you get? Do notE paraphrase it. Give us the exact messages and we will be able to helpo you much better.     [...]u   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2005 06:16:28 -0700 ( From: "Shawn" <shawnm1964@sbcglobal.net>* Subject: Re: Replacing Shadowed Boot DriveC Message-ID: <1115039788.381147.301330@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>w   What is b -fl 0,1   5 Boot Flag ?,?  I am not sure what the 0,1 stands for?    Shawns   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 09:45:30 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>i* Subject: RE: Replacing Shadowed Boot DriveR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB5ECF22@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----2 > From: Shawn [mailto:shawnm1964@sbcglobal.net]=20 > Sent: May 2, 2005 9:16 AM$ > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma, > Subject: Re: Replacing Shadowed Boot Drive >=20 > What is b -fl 0,1i >=207 > Boot Flag ?,?  I am not sure what the 0,1 stands for?M >=20 > Shawno >=20    F Boot via the default defined boot device via SYS0 ("0") root directoryC on the system disk with R5 set to "1" i.e. conversational boot. The D system will stop booting at the SYSBOOT> prompt where you can change9 system parameters before continuing the rest of the boot.i   RegardsS  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultanti HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660i Fax: 613-591-4477i kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 13:58:04 GMT5! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com>5* Subject: Re: Replacing Shadowed Boot Drive8 Message-ID: <uccc711ni4cbr0719dq546673bthuf3ah9@4ax.com>  G On 2 May 2005 06:16:28 -0700, "Shawn" <shawnm1964@sbcglobal.net> wrote:-   >What is b -fl 0,1 > 6 >Boot Flag ?,?  I am not sure what the 0,1 stands for?  N Conversational boot from system root SYS0 on the default boot device i.e. stop; at SYSBOOT> prompt & allow you to change SYSGEN parameters.w   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 08:19:57 +0200  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>- Subject: Re: Sandia says alpha the best chip!a2 Message-ID: <d54gqi$dp2$1@news4.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>   Rob Brooks wrote:  >>Chris wrote: >>J >>From an OpenVMS perspective, I was told in confidence some time ago that? >>quite a bit of effort went in to making the VAX-to-Alpha porteH >>hardware-independent, and the Alpha-to-Itanium port would take it evenB >>further, making an 8086-64 port "relatively easy" (not my words) >  > L > If it was told "in confidence", why are you now dishonouring that request? >   H I think this is common knowledge with everyone who is interested in the G OpenVMS port to Itanium. OpenVMS engineering never made a secret about  H the fact that they made the OpenVMS sources as processor independent as A possible when they did the Vax -> Alpha port, so that any future s( processor port would be relatively easy.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 02:42:08 -0400s- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> - Subject: Re: Sandia says alpha the best chip!rB Message-ID: <1115016146.08e464d0746633a9eb6d9636cdda070a@teranews>   Dirk Munk wrote:I > the fact that they made the OpenVMS sources as processor independent asiB > possible when they did the Vax -> Alpha port, so that any future* > processor port would be relatively easy.  F And that in the Alpha->IA64 port, they also restructured the source toU make it possible to maintain cross platform common source pool to reduce maintenance.e  D Because the above has been public knowledge for some time, when someC poster used the "in confidence" term, I took it that his source waseN quite credible and that he had much confidence that this had really been done.  E The big question is when must the VMS engineers start the port to the F 8086 to have a developper beta (similar to 8.0) available by mid 2007.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2005 05:48:14 -0700o$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>2 Subject: Re: SYS$SYSROOT and similar logical namesC Message-ID: <1115038094.224240.212680@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>     Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:F > In article <d54d8k$n18$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de2 (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:F > >In article <1115002342.228461.238760@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,& "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:B > >> This would have the disadvantage of losing the search list in parse 5 > >> operations. For exmaple, consider the expressionp > >>, > >>     F$PARSE("SYS$SYSTEM:.DAT","SYSUAF") > >>( > >> With your suggestion, you would get SYS$SPECIFIC:[SYSEXE]SYSUAF.DATe* > >> whereas in the current scheme you get SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]SYSUAF.DAT, C > >> preserving the serach list. (This answer was posted by someonec else inn+ > >> this newsgroup; I can't remember who.)u > >h > >Makes sense.d > >nF > >On a side note, I was thinking that such code was used to determine the.E > >file spec of SYSUAF, which might be a logical name (otherwise, oneo couldtF > >just use SYS$SYSTEM:SYSUAF.DAT directly).  On my cluster, SYSUAF is a > > >logical name, but the parse command returns something else: > >  > >$ sh log sysuaf? > >   "SYSUAF" = "CLUSTER_SYSTEM:SYSUAF.DAT" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)e > > 9 > >$ write sys$output F$PARSE("SYS$SYSTEM:.DAT","SYSUAF")s" > >SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]SYSUAF.DAT; >r/ > Yup, you both have the arguments wrong. It isp >u9 > 	$ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$PARSE("SYSUAF","SYS$SYSTEM:.DAT")t    < Yup, you're right: I got it backwards! Hey, it was late. :-)   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2005 09:01:34 -0500  From: briggs@encompasserve.org2 Subject: Re: SYS$SYSROOT and similar logical names3 Message-ID: <TkDQMJBh1rOL@eisner.encompasserve.org>   w In article <d54d8k$n18$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:nE > In article <1115002342.228461.238760@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,c) > "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:   > F >> This would have the disadvantage of losing the search list in parse3 >> operations. For exmaple, consider the expression( >> n* >>     F$PARSE("SYS$SYSTEM:.DAT","SYSUAF")  @ Note that this parse is going for a file named "SYS$SYSTEM:.DAT"9 with a default file name of "SYSUAF".  Not very standard.A  F >> With your suggestion, you would get SYS$SPECIFIC:[SYSEXE]SYSUAF.DATH >> whereas in the current scheme you get SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]SYSUAF.DAT,I >> preserving the serach list. (This answer was posted by someone else in ) >> this newsgroup; I can't remember who.)a >  > Makes sense.   > J > On a side note, I was thinking that such code was used to determine the K > file spec of SYSUAF, which might be a logical name (otherwise, one could nH > just use SYS$SYSTEM:SYSUAF.DAT directly).  On my cluster, SYSUAF is a = > logical name, but the parse command returns something else:  >  > $ sh log sysuafn> >    "SYSUAF" = "CLUSTER_SYSTEM:SYSUAF.DAT" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE) > 8 > $ write sys$output F$PARSE("SYS$SYSTEM:.DAT","SYSUAF")! > SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]SYSUAF.DAT;v  G Yes.  The SYSUAF logical name is providing the file name and extension. A Since those did not appear in the file name itself they are beingt% defaulted from the default file name.e    Wouldn't you really want to use:  7 $ write sys$output F$PARSE("SYSUAF","SYS$SYSTEM:.DAT" ),   ????   	John Briggs   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2005 07:59:19 -0700m$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>2 Subject: Re: SYS$SYSROOT and similar logical namesB Message-ID: <1115045959.099848.36880@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   bri...@encompasserve.org wrote:tF > In article <d54d8k$n18$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de2 (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:G > > In article <1115002342.228461.238760@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, * > > "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes: > >dB > >> This would have the disadvantage of losing the search list in parse 5 > >> operations. For exmaple, consider the expressione > >>, > >>     F$PARSE("SYS$SYSTEM:.DAT","SYSUAF") >tB > Note that this parse is going for a file named "SYS$SYSTEM:.DAT"; > with a default file name of "SYSUAF".  Not very standard.o >r( > >> With your suggestion, you would get SYS$SPECIFIC:[SYSEXE]SYSUAF.DATu* > >> whereas in the current scheme you get SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]SYSUAF.DAT,eC > >> preserving the serach list. (This answer was posted by someonee else inv+ > >> this newsgroup; I can't remember who.)i > >t > > Makes sense. > > G > > On a side note, I was thinking that such code was used to determine  theGF > > file spec of SYSUAF, which might be a logical name (otherwise, one couldcG > > just use SYS$SYSTEM:SYSUAF.DAT directly).  On my cluster, SYSUAF is  aa? > > logical name, but the parse command returns something else:i > >> > > $ sh log sysuaf-@ > >    "SYSUAF" = "CLUSTER_SYSTEM:SYSUAF.DAT" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE) > >n: > > $ write sys$output F$PARSE("SYS$SYSTEM:.DAT","SYSUAF")# > > SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]SYSUAF.DAT;g >D> > Yes.  The SYSUAF logical name is providing the file name and
 extension.C > Since those did not appear in the file name itself they are being ' > defaulted from the default file name.  >," > Wouldn't you really want to use: > 9 > $ write sys$output F$PARSE("SYSUAF","SYS$SYSTEM:.DAT" )u >i > ???? >e > 	John Briggs    E Yes, yes, I screwed up! You are right. It was late and my main thrust @ was to illustrate how parsing loses the search list if the first@ equivalence name is not concealed, which my example successfully? showed. For pratical purposes, your order is of course correct.r   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2005 07:43:18 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)h' Subject: Re: TCPIP V5.5 on OpenVMS V8.2k3 Message-ID: <SHAZJZC566rT@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  h In article <4271513e@cfanews.cfa.harvard.edu>, "Gareth V. Williams" <graff@cfa0.cfa.harvard.edu> writes:D > Last night I upgraded my home system from V7.3-2 to V8.2, in orderG > to try out the new V5.5 TCPIP.  The X11 forwarding via the "standard"nC > U**x mechanism works very nicely: I simply logged into a U**x boxU> > at work, type "nutscrape" and up popped the Netscape window. > ? > I was disappointed to find that sftp will still only transfer-4 > Stream-LF (or fixed-length 512-byte record) files.  H    This problem is built into sftp by design (or lack of).  Most vendors<    are ignoring the spec and making it work anyhow, somehow.  > > The implementation of SSH has been very badly thought out...  6    Blame the UNIX-centric folks who came up with sftp.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 06:59:19 -0400h- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>p9 Subject: Update on VMS artwork (Vernon the shark mascott)rB Message-ID: <1115031605.e75925cdbba9aa209b48623c65dd0e70@teranews>  P I've begun to generate some of the artwork with the VMS shark (Vernon) branding.  - http://www.vaxination.ca/vms/shark/index.htmlv  H I've even masochicastically generated some artwork with the dreaded open# word in it. It hasn't been easy :-(y  F (Michael Unger also submitted a PDF document to print VMS hobbyists CD# jewel box inserts) Thanks Mr Unger.i    ) But I need your feedback on a few things:   E Is it worth continuing the embossed blue square with the shark in the- middle ?; (examples at: http://www.openvms.org/pages.php?page=Logos )w  B If so, should the logo of this week's owner of VMS be included, orE should the logo be made vendor neutral for greater longevity ? (I wastH thinking of placing the ____VMS at the bottom instead of top if there isH to be no vendor logo). Also, I take it would require official permission to use the HP logo ?    G I can recreate this logo in vector format so that it is fully scalable.wH And might make it more modern 3d look. But if there is no demand for it, I won't bother.      -----    Now, onto more technical stuff:l  G I am willing to make the ____VMS in Mistral available for download in a F purely vector format. (convert the text to paths, and this removes any+ copyright issues with distributing a font).,  H However, since EPS doesn't usually allow one to edit inside, users would# not be able to set its colour, etc.e  C Is the use of illustrator/freehand common enough that someone coulda5 import an illustrator version and then work with it ?   F Or would PDF be a better format ? A lot fo software can now import PDFA and work with the objects and set their line/fill attributes etc.)    2 I could also generate DXF. (used for 3d software).    F Also, if anyone did try to use the .ZIP file and had problems, I wouldE very much appreciate getting feedback. (Mr Unger already gave me some2H feedback) on the EPS files containing font references with MAC encodingsF (there is no text in the EPS, so this code in the EPS is redundant and will be excised).   G I will be making some fine tuning of Vernon (a fill slightly encroaches H the edge line on a fin and when rasterised to small size, the line is noC longer visible) and while regenerating the files to rebuild the zipeD files, will make whatever changes needed by the feedback I will get.  @ Also, if you have comments about Vernon itself, if there are any< changes/improvement areas that are suggested. (colours, etc)  E if replying by email, don't forget to remove the spam countermeasures E from email address, or use the email address available on the contactr section of the website.h   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 09:55:57 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>t= Subject: Re: Update on VMS artwork (Vernon the shark mascott) , Message-ID: <NcydncS7W7zgruvfRVn-vQ@igs.net>  
 Nice work JF.g     JF Mezei wrote: ? > I've begun to generate some of the artwork with the VMS sharke > (Vernon) branding. >m/ > http://www.vaxination.ca/vms/shark/index.html/ >mE > I've even masochicastically generated some artwork with the dreaded  > open% > word in it. It hasn't been easy :-(  >kH > (Michael Unger also submitted a PDF document to print VMS hobbyists CD% > jewel box inserts) Thanks Mr Unger.e >j > + > But I need your feedback on a few things:t > G > Is it worth continuing the embossed blue square with the shark in ther
 > middle ?= > (examples at: http://www.openvms.org/pages.php?page=Logos )  >rD > If so, should the logo of this week's owner of VMS be included, orG > should the logo be made vendor neutral for greater longevity ? (I was-G > thinking of placing the ____VMS at the bottom instead of top if therec > is? > to be no vendor logo). Also, I take it would require officialt > permission > to use the HP logo ? >  >n? > I can recreate this logo in vector format so that it is fullyA > scalable.dF > And might make it more modern 3d look. But if there is no demand for > it,  > I won't bother.t >  >> > -----n >a! > Now, onto more technical stuff:t >aG > I am willing to make the ____VMS in Mistral available for download in> > aFH > purely vector format. (convert the text to paths, and this removes any- > copyright issues with distributing a font).? >>D > However, since EPS doesn't usually allow one to edit inside, users > wouldS% > not be able to set its colour, etc.> > E > Is the use of illustrator/freehand common enough that someone couldT7 > import an illustrator version and then work with it ?I >>H > Or would PDF be a better format ? A lot fo software can now import PDFC > and work with the objects and set their line/fill attributes etc.> >F >I4 > I could also generate DXF. (used for 3d software). >G >>H > Also, if anyone did try to use the .ZIP file and had problems, I wouldG > very much appreciate getting feedback. (Mr Unger already gave me somet@ > feedback) on the EPS files containing font references with MACD > encodings (there is no text in the EPS, so this code in the EPS is > redundant andl > will be excised).  >l> > I will be making some fine tuning of Vernon (a fill slightly > encroachesG > the edge line on a fin and when rasterised to small size, the line isi > noE > longer visible) and while regenerating the files to rebuild the zipTF > files, will make whatever changes needed by the feedback I will get. > B > Also, if you have comments about Vernon itself, if there are any> > changes/improvement areas that are suggested. (colours, etc) >tG > if replying by email, don't forget to remove the spam countermeasures G > from email address, or use the email address available on the contactE > section of the website.o   --F OpenVMS - The never advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.S   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 15:39:20 GMTv6 From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAM.spyderbyte.com>= Subject: Re: Update on VMS artwork (Vernon the shark mascott)w< Message-ID: <IQrde.3398$ED2.299872@twister.southeast.rr.com>   The "Powered by..." rocks!     Kena  % _____________________________________p" Kenneth R. Farmer <>< 336-736-7376/ http://www.OpenVMS.org | http://dcl.OpenVMS.orga      ; "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message H< news:1115031605.e75925cdbba9aa209b48623c65dd0e70@teranews...I > I've begun to generate some of the artwork with the VMS shark (Vernon) c > branding.  >e/ > http://www.vaxination.ca/vms/shark/index.htmle >pJ > I've even masochicastically generated some artwork with the dreaded open% > word in it. It hasn't been easy :-(e >aH > (Michael Unger also submitted a PDF document to print VMS hobbyists CD% > jewel box inserts) Thanks Mr Unger.: >0 >0+ > But I need your feedback on a few things:y >HG > Is it worth continuing the embossed blue square with the shark in the0
 > middle ?= > (examples at: http://www.openvms.org/pages.php?page=Logos )p >.D > If so, should the logo of this week's owner of VMS be included, orG > should the logo be made vendor neutral for greater longevity ? (I wasuJ > thinking of placing the ____VMS at the bottom instead of top if there isJ > to be no vendor logo). Also, I take it would require official permission > to use the HP logo ? >  >oI > I can recreate this logo in vector format so that it is fully scalable.aJ > And might make it more modern 3d look. But if there is no demand for it, > I won't bother.a >  >' > -----h >w! > Now, onto more technical stuff:e >iI > I am willing to make the ____VMS in Mistral available for download in aiH > purely vector format. (convert the text to paths, and this removes any- > copyright issues with distributing a font).y > J > However, since EPS doesn't usually allow one to edit inside, users would% > not be able to set its colour, etc.e >aE > Is the use of illustrator/freehand common enough that someone couldl7 > import an illustrator version and then work with it ?e > H > Or would PDF be a better format ? A lot fo software can now import PDFC > and work with the objects and set their line/fill attributes etc.e >m >o4 > I could also generate DXF. (used for 3d software). >m >eH > Also, if anyone did try to use the .ZIP file and had problems, I wouldG > very much appreciate getting feedback. (Mr Unger already gave me somehJ > feedback) on the EPS files containing font references with MAC encodingsH > (there is no text in the EPS, so this code in the EPS is redundant and > will be excised).  > I > I will be making some fine tuning of Vernon (a fill slightly encroaches J > the edge line on a fin and when rasterised to small size, the line is noE > longer visible) and while regenerating the files to rebuild the zipoF > files, will make whatever changes needed by the feedback I will get. >-B > Also, if you have comments about Vernon itself, if there are any> > changes/improvement areas that are suggested. (colours, etc) >sG > if replying by email, don't forget to remove the spam countermeasuresoG > from email address, or use the email address available on the contacty > section of the website.    ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2005 07:46:07 -0500f; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)o4 Subject: Re: What is Different or Special About VMS?3 Message-ID: <zhBswzfYK9XQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  W In article <3deoa8F6s6di1U1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  > J > More likely VMS was at DEFCON and a few curious people walked by, tappedI > the keyboard, said, "What the heck is this?", shrugged their shoulders,o > and walked on. 4      The record shows otherwize.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2005 13:03:19 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)4 Subject: Re: What is Different or Special About VMS?, Message-ID: <3dmmonF6pm9d9U1@individual.net>  3 In article <zhBswzfYK9XQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>,X> 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:Y > In article <3deoa8F6s6di1U1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:d >> oK >> More likely VMS was at DEFCON and a few curious people walked by, tapped0J >> the keyboard, said, "What the heck is this?", shrugged their shoulders, >> and walked on.  >   >    The record shows otherwize.  h
 What record? a   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   f   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 13:56:10 GMTi! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> 4 Subject: Re: What is Different or Special About VMS?8 Message-ID: <c9cc715no3fdhojd61qtdsdkt5smrefvqf@4ax.com>  E On 2 May 2005 13:03:19 GMT, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:o  4 >In article <zhBswzfYK9XQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>,? >	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: Z >> In article <3deoa8F6s6di1U1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>> L >>> More likely VMS was at DEFCON and a few curious people walked by, tappedK >>> the keyboard, said, "What the heck is this?", shrugged their shoulders,r >>> and walked on. I >> s! >>    The record shows otherwize.  >  >What record?   O The report of the trip that I posted a link to a couple of days ago. It refuteswE your assumption of what happened http://vmsone.com/~opcom/defcon9.htme   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 10:04:39 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>l4 Subject: Re: What is Different or Special About VMS?, Message-ID: <Ncydnce7W7zgruvfRVn-vQ@igs.net>   Main, Kerry wrote: >> -----Original Message-----t+ >> From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]o >> Sent: May 1, 2005 2:43 PM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com7 >> Subject: Re: What is Different or Special About VMS?c >> >> Main, Kerry wrote:l >>>lF >>> And then - oh, by the way, the judges at a hackers conference also( >>> voted OpenVMS "cool and unhackable". >> >> >>< >> So "cool" is now an official part of the Common Criteria? >>5 >> Which section / sub-section can I find that under?n >> > G > I am not saying it is not important or that it is not required, but I > > suspect many CIO's would be more impressed with the "hackersF > conference" reference because most of them that do not deal directlyG > with the Govt will typically have no idea what common criteria means.  >d' > They are to busy with SOX, HIPPA etc.3    L Ok Kerry, I understand. Next time I meet with a bank vice-chairman I'll tellD him that VMS is really "sick" - and I can tell him you said that was! recommended wording from HP.  ;-)t  E (not that targeting students in the .edu crowd with advertisements ineL on-campus newspapers with a "VMS is really sick" message isn't a good idea -0 we just have to get it into their hands somehow)     --F OpenVMS - The never advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.m   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2005 14:44:48 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)4 Subject: Re: What is Different or Special About VMS?, Message-ID: <3dmsn0F6to5knU1@individual.net>  8 In article <c9cc715no3fdhojd61qtdsdkt5smrefvqf@4ax.com>,$ 	Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> writes:G > On 2 May 2005 13:03:19 GMT, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:o > 5 >>In article <zhBswzfYK9XQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>, @ >>	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:[ >>> In article <3deoa8F6s6di1U1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:d >>>> sM >>>> More likely VMS was at DEFCON and a few curious people walked by, tappedsL >>>> the keyboard, said, "What the heck is this?", shrugged their shoulders, >>>> and walked on.  >>> " >>>    The record shows otherwize. >>   >>What record? e > Q > The report of the trip that I posted a link to a couple of days ago. It refutesuG > your assumption of what happened http://vmsone.com/~opcom/defcon9.htmn >   ? And they verified this how?  Of course we all know there was noi+ chance of any kind of bias in their report.   A You guys go on singing the praises of DEFCON.  I will continue tod) give them the consideration they deserve.r   bill   -- aJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   2   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 15:06:34 GMTo! From: Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> 4 Subject: Re: What is Different or Special About VMS?8 Message-ID: <s9gc71p24usgg52rjjlhsj60klhlr01uda@4ax.com>  E On 2 May 2005 14:44:48 GMT, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:s  9 >In article <c9cc715no3fdhojd61qtdsdkt5smrefvqf@4ax.com>,7% >	Nigel Barker <nigel@hp.com> writes: H >> On 2 May 2005 13:03:19 GMT, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: >> w6 >>>In article <zhBswzfYK9XQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>,A >>>	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: \ >>>> In article <3deoa8F6s6di1U1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>>>> N >>>>> More likely VMS was at DEFCON and a few curious people walked by, tappedM >>>>> the keyboard, said, "What the heck is this?", shrugged their shoulders,h >>>>> and walked on. d >>>> n# >>>>    The record shows otherwize.e >>>  >>>What record?  >> tR >> The report of the trip that I posted a link to a couple of days ago. It refutesH >> your assumption of what happened http://vmsone.com/~opcom/defcon9.htm >> g > @ >And they verified this how?  Of course we all know there was no, >chance of any kind of bias in their report. >cB >You guys go on singing the praises of DEFCON.  I will continue to* >give them the consideration they deserve.  P I wasn't singing the praises of DEFCON just pointing out that your assumption ofM what happened there was incorrect. There were clear rules for the capture thelM flag competition they did not just involve to quote your words "a few curious O people walked by, tapped the keyboard, said, "What the heck is this?", shruggeds  their shoulders, and walked on."     -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azuro   ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 11:57:16 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com>e4 Subject: RE: What is Different or Special About VMS?R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB5ECF39@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message------ > From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]=20  > Sent: May 2, 2005 10:05 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comh6 > Subject: Re: What is Different or Special About VMS? >=20 > Main, Kerry wrote: > >> -----Original Message-----a- > >> From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]  > >> Sent: May 1, 2005 2:43 PM > >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com9 > >> Subject: Re: What is Different or Special About VMS?p > >> > >> Main, Kerry wrote:c > >>>tH > >>> And then - oh, by the way, the judges at a hackers conference also* > >>> voted OpenVMS "cool and unhackable". > >> > >> > >>> > >> So "cool" is now an official part of the Common Criteria? > >>7 > >> Which section / sub-section can I find that under?p > >> > >e< > > I am not saying it is not important or that it is not=20 > required, but Ia@ > > suspect many CIO's would be more impressed with the "hackersH > > conference" reference because most of them that do not deal directly< > > with the Govt will typically have no idea what common=20 > criteria means.s > >o) > > They are to busy with SOX, HIPPA etc.  >=20 >=209 > Ok Kerry, I understand. Next time I meet with a bank=20  > vice-chairman I'll tell F > him that VMS is really "sick" - and I can tell him you said that was# > recommended wording from HP.  ;-)t >=20G > (not that targeting students in the .edu crowd with advertisements inh= > on-campus newspapers with a "VMS is really sick" message=20  > isn't a good idea -a2 > we just have to get it into their hands somehow) >=20 >=20    F Mmm.. I had to think about this, but I am assuming the "sick" joke was
 about SOX?  H Well, I can almost guarantee that if you say SOX (Sarbanes Oxley) to anyE manager in the financial services business and they will know exactlyiH what you mean. And now even private companies outside of Finance segment. are being forced big time into SOX compliance.   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantw HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660s Fax: 613-591-4477o kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 08:26:23 GMT"+ From: "D. Stussy" <kd6lvw@bde-arc.ampr.org>u* Subject: Re: What is SMTP status code 556?< Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0505020824160.78@kd6lvw.ampr.org>  3 On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:ol > In article <Pine.LNX.4.62.0504182122380.73@kd6lvw.ampr.org>, "D. Stussy" <kd6lvw@bde-arc.ampr.org> writes:. > > On Wed, 20 Apr 2005, Lawrence Bleau wrote: > [snip]6 > >> Does anyone know what SMTP status code 556 means? > > R > > It means that you should report that system to rfc-ignorant.org.  556 is not aS > > valid defined code in RFC 2822 (which is current).  I know of no subsequent RFCu2 > > or other standard which has added such a code. >sD > RFC 2822 is irrelevant.  It describes message format, not transfer > protocol.t > 3 > RFC 2821 is the controlling document.  It states:  >'C >    An SMTP server SHOULD send only the reply codes listed in thisoH >    document.  An SMTP server SHOULD use the text shown in the examples >    whenever appropriate. >yH > 556 is not one of the listed codes.  In the language of the RFC's, theA > "SHOULD" means that use of code 556 is allowed but discouraged.l  O Nor defined.  All that means is that if it's sent, it should be recognized as anN "PERMFAIL" of the message for future compatibility, but there currently existsF no circumstances under which it should ever be sent - so sending it is currently a protocol error.t   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 08:29:03 GMTX+ From: "D. Stussy" <kd6lvw@bde-arc.ampr.org> * Subject: Re: What is SMTP status code 556?< Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0505020826180.78@kd6lvw.ampr.org>  + On Tue, 26 Apr 2005, Michael Moroney wrote: / > "D. Stussy" <kd6lvw@bde-arc.ampr.org> writes: - > >On Wed, 20 Apr 2005, Lawrence Bleau wrote: 9 > >> I'm running OpenVMS 7.3-2 AXP with TCPIP V5.4 ECO 4.aH > >> A user of mine had a mail message returned to him with the message: > >>E > >> 556 %TCPIP-E-SMTP_XFAIL, remote transaction failure, comcast.net  > >>> > >> I looked up SMTP_XFAIL with HELP/MESSAGE and got nothing.? > >> I searched for the SMTP status codes, finally found an RFC A > >> or two, but they don't say anything about 556.  In fact, thes* > >> status codes only go up to about 554. > >>6 > >> Does anyone know what SMTP status code 556 means? >oO > >It means that you should report that system to rfc-ignorant.org.  556 is not K > >a valid defined code in RFC 2822 [sic] (which is current).  I know of noe@ > >subsequent RFC or other standard which has added such a code. > M > The 5xx status tells the client the mail was rejected and the client shoulde > not retry. >kI > 55x codes usually are used for "home grown" error messages, rather thanpL > one of the predefined ones.  These days they often are used for 'get lost, > spammer!' type messages   O However, 554 is the proper code defined in RFC 2821 for policy rejections afteriL the DATA subcommand.  You will find that the RFC contains a listing of validN error states that may be returned after certain commands, and 556 is not among them.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 06:29:13 -0400-- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>a* Subject: Re: What is SMTP status code 556?B Message-ID: <1115029711.806842530ce3a09b93a029186a99ffda@teranews>   "D. Stussy" wrote:J > > 556 is not one of the listed codes.  In the language of the RFC's, theC > > "SHOULD" means that use of code 556 is allowed but discouraged.o  G But it isn't a given that the 556 was actually issued in the SMTP (821)jF dialogue. My experience shows that the VMS software may use "556" whenG generating the non-delivery notification text instead of using the codes5 and text that the remote SMTP server really provided.t   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2005 09:02:57 -0500u From: briggs@encompasserve.org* Subject: Re: What is SMTP status code 556?3 Message-ID: <KNrm6CcJXVe4@eisner.encompasserve.org>r  j In article <Pine.LNX.4.62.0505020826180.78@kd6lvw.ampr.org>, "D. Stussy" <kd6lvw@bde-arc.ampr.org> writes:Q > However, 554 is the proper code defined in RFC 2821 for policy rejections afteriN > the DATA subcommand.  You will find that the RFC contains a listing of validP > error states that may be returned after certain commands, and 556 is not among > them.a  G Re-read the RFC.  There's no requirement that the code that is returned  be listed there.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2005 09:23:43 -0500- From: briggs@encompasserve.org* Subject: Re: What is SMTP status code 556?3 Message-ID: <ZCmX9$O2DSi6@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  r In article <1115029711.806842530ce3a09b93a029186a99ffda@teranews>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > "D. Stussy" wrote:K >> > 556 is not one of the listed codes.  In the language of the RFC's, thesD >> > "SHOULD" means that use of code 556 is allowed but discouraged. > I > But it isn't a given that the 556 was actually issued in the SMTP (821)eH > dialogue. My experience shows that the VMS software may use "556" whenI > generating the non-delivery notification text instead of using the coden7 > and text that the remote SMTP server really provided.   D Synthesizing an RFC 2821 style status code that never appeared in anE RFC 2821 dialogue?  In place of an RFC 2821 status code that actually  did appear in that dialogue?  % I can smell that from here.  Peeuuuu.k   	John Briggs   ------------------------------   Date: 2 May 2005 09:27:01 -0500l From: briggs@encompasserve.org* Subject: Re: What is SMTP status code 556?3 Message-ID: <OiGwENupRVVv@eisner.encompasserve.org>   j In article <Pine.LNX.4.62.0505020824160.78@kd6lvw.ampr.org>, "D. Stussy" <kd6lvw@bde-arc.ampr.org> writes:5 > On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:n [snip]E >> RFC 2822 is irrelevant.  It describes message format, not transfere >> protocol. >>4 >> RFC 2821 is the controlling document.  It states: >>D >>    An SMTP server SHOULD send only the reply codes listed in thisI >>    document.  An SMTP server SHOULD use the text shown in the examplesi >>    whenever appropriate.m >>I >> 556 is not one of the listed codes.  In the language of the RFC's, the4B >> "SHOULD" means that use of code 556 is allowed but discouraged. > Q > Nor defined.  All that means is that if it's sent, it should be recognized as ayP > "PERMFAIL" of the message for future compatibility, but there currently existsH > no circumstances under which it should ever be sent - so sending it is > currently a protocol error.a  E Violating a "should" does not constitute a protocol error.  Find me as+ "must" and we'll talk.  Note the following:e  @   "The list of codes that appears below MUST NOT be construed asC    permanent.  While the addition of new codes should be a rare andaE    significant activity, with supplemental information in the textualnF    part of the response being preferred, new codes may be added as the=    result of new Standards or Standards-track specifications.-C    Consequently, a sender-SMTP MUST be prepared to handle codes not.F    specified in this document and MUST do so by interpreting the first    digit only.  < The SMTP client is required to deal with the issue.  As longC as the first digit is correct, and the SMTP client is compliant, noC protocol error can resulti  J You really need to quote some text to support your contentions.  According  to the RFC, you're zero for two.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 17:36:20 +0000 (UTC)7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)t* Subject: Re: What is SMTP status code 556?( Message-ID: <d55oek$vpu$1@pcls4.std.com>  - "D. Stussy" <kd6lvw@bde-arc.ampr.org> writes:E  4 >On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:  I >> 556 is not one of the listed codes.  In the language of the RFC's, thesB >> "SHOULD" means that use of code 556 is allowed but discouraged.  P >Nor defined.  All that means is that if it's sent, it should be recognized as aO >"PERMFAIL" of the message for future compatibility, but there currently existslG >no circumstances under which it should ever be sent - so sending it isi >currently a protocol error.  - The boilerplate definition in RFC 2821 reads:r  C    3. SHOULD   This word, or the adjective "RECOMMENDED", mean thatSB       there may exist valid reasons in particular circumstances toA       ignore a particular item, but the full implications must beSB       understood and carefully weighed before choosing a different
       course.O  D    4. SHOULD NOT   This phrase, or the phrase "NOT RECOMMENDED" meanD       that there may exist valid reasons in particular circumstancesH       when the particular behavior is acceptable or even useful, but theC       full implications should be understood and the case carefully1B       weighed before implementing any behavior described with this       label.   In 4.2 it reads:  A    An SMTP server SHOULD send only the reply codes listed in this1F    document.  An SMTP server SHOULD use the text shown in the examples    whenever appropriate.  B meaning it's OK for other codes not listed to be used, but this is discouraged.  Also:.  @    The list of codes that appears below MUST NOT be construed asC    permanent.  While the addition of new codes should be a rare anddE    significant activity, with supplemental information in the textualnF    part of the response being preferred, new codes may be added as the=    result of new Standards or Standards-track specifications.[C    Consequently, a sender-SMTP MUST be prepared to handle codes notoF    specified in this document and MUST do so by interpreting the first    digit only.  G meaning a client MUST accept a 556 status as a permanent error and dealn with it appropiately.S   In addition:  ?    The third digit and any supplemental information that may be:?    present is reserved for the finest gradation of information.e  G Don't read into it too much, in other words.  As to 556 "not defined",  H only partially true.  The first 5 means a permanent error, the second 5 H definition is: "x5z   Mail system: These replies indicate the status of H the receiver mail system vis-a-vis the requested transfer or other mail H system action."  554 is overly broad:  "Transaction failed."  In theory,F no need for codes 550-553 (or anything oddball like 556), "transaction failed" could cover all cases.  I This is computer communications, not the fine points of law.  Having said-D that, if VMS is replacing a standard status passed to it with a 556 . status, that is wrong and should be corrected. -- s -Mikel   ------------------------------  * Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 17:42:02 +0000 (UTC)7 From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)k* Subject: Re: What is SMTP status code 556?( Message-ID: <d55opa$vpu$2@pcls4.std.com>  - "D. Stussy" <kd6lvw@bde-arc.ampr.org> writes:6  N >> The 5xx status tells the client the mail was rejected and the client should
 >> not retry.T >>J >> 55x codes usually are used for "home grown" error messages, rather thanM >> one of the predefined ones.  These days they often are used for 'get lost,M >> spammer!' type messages  P >However, 554 is the proper code defined in RFC 2821 for policy rejections afterM >the DATA subcommand.  You will find that the RFC contains a listing of validdO >error states that may be returned after certain commands, and 556 is not amongt >them.  G Actually, 550, not 554, is designated for rejection for policy reasons.a   -- d -Mikee   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.244 ************************