1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 05 May 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 249       Contents: Re: Appletalk on Alphas  Re: Appletalk on Alphas  Re: Appletalk on Alphas  Re: Appletalk on Alphas  Re: DECUS Fall Symposium 1968  Re: DECUS Fall Symposium 1968  Re: DECUS Fall Symposium 1968 = Re: Eliminating files with extraneous characters in filenames % Re: finding the (biggest) bottle neck % RE: finding the (biggest) bottle neck / Re: HP hostility to alpha holding back itanium? / Re: HP hostility to alpha holding back itanium? / Re: HP hostility to alpha holding back itanium? / RE: HP hostility to alpha holding back itanium? / Re: HP hostility to alpha holding back itanium? / Re: HP hostility to alpha holding back itanium? 8 Re: Maybe HP should get out of the hardware business.... Re: Missing disk from vax spl  Re: OpenVMS using RAID drives  Re: OpenVMS using RAID drives  Re: OpenVMS using RAID drives  Re: OpenVMS using RAID drives  Re: OpenVMS using RAID drives  Re: OpenVMS using RAID drives  Re: OpenVMS using RAID drives  Re: OpenVMS using RAID drives  Re: OpenVMS using RAID drives  Re: OpenVMS using RAID drives ( Re: Parameters of system service $SETENV& Subject: Looking for more information.! Re: TCPIP FTP Problem OpenVMS 7.3 P Re: Time to vote on your favorite slogan for the next OpenVMS License         plP Re: Time to vote on your favorite slogan for the next OpenVMS License         plP Re: Time to vote on your favorite slogan for the next OpenVMS License         pl" Re: UAF search for last login date" Re: UAF search for last login date+ Re: What is Different or Special About VMS?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 18:58:04 GMT * From: Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com>  Subject: Re: Appletalk on Alphas5 Message-ID: <040520051457191656%paul.anderson@hp.com>   E In article <1115226767.859747.95360@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, Ed   Wilts <ewilts@ewilts.org> wrote:  F > We have 337 printers that speak Appletalk well but do a lousy job ofB > TCP/IP - most have no TCP/IP at all or a unidirectional printingG > stack that DCPS doesn't support (it may do in the current release but & > certainly not the earlier releases).  H If the printers have LPD, DCPS V2.3 or later will happily print to them.  H > Even if I could get TCP/IP printing working, the users would never get@ > notifications of "paper out", "printer jam", "toner low", etc.   True.   H > By killing the Appletalk stack, we've lost all VMS upgrade abilities. : > We're stuck on VMS 7.3-2 forever until the cluster dies.  D Get an old VAX, put V7.3 on it and put it in your cluster.  Then youB can upgrade the Alphas to your heart's content because you'll haveE AppleTalk running on the VAX.  That's a lot cheaper than $337,000 for 
 new printers.   @ Or buy an external print server for the printers that only speakB AppleTalk.  (Woops, maybe those printers don't have parallel ports either.)  D > I've been a VMS admin since the blue wall (V2.4 over 20 years ago)= > but unfortunately this is the end of the line for VMS here.   @ Just because there's no more AppleTalk on the current version of OpenVMS?   Paul   --    Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineering    Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 15:44:36 -0400 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>  Subject: Re: Appletalk on Alphas/ Message-ID: <4278EDE4.20533.2ACBD64D@localhost>   , On 4 May 2005 at 18:58, Paul Anderson wrote:F > Get an old VAX, put V7.3 on it and put it in your cluster.  Then youD > can upgrade the Alphas to your heart's content because you'll haveG > AppleTalk running on the VAX.  That's a lot cheaper than $337,000 for  > new printers.  > B > Or buy an external print server for the printers that only speakD > AppleTalk.  (Woops, maybe those printers don't have parallel ports
 > either.)  A I think a PC running CHARON-VAX would make a great print server.  0 [Shameless Plug (tm) from a CHARON-VAX reseller]  
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com   ------------------------------   Date: 4 May 2005 16:35:57 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)   Subject: Re: Appletalk on Alphas3 Message-ID: <KyHa9WROtYoc@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Z In article <040520052217443232%nospam@yrl.co.uk>, Elliott Roper <nospam@yrl.co.uk> writes:  F > Note that Apple's own support for Appletalk is beginning to atrophy.D > As of OS X 10.4 (Tiger) Appleshare via Appletalk is limited to theE > discovery phase. Actual file transfer must be via TCP/IP. OS X 10.4 I > systems will no longer talk properly to Mac OS8.x solely via Appletalk.   D From my perspective, OS X is not worth considering because from whatD I can see it has no disk format in common with MacOS 7.5.5.   When IC need to transfer data between networks, it sometimes is larger than E will fit on a floppy.  Using a regular disk, MacOS X from what I have F seen cannot handle regular HFS -- only a newer HFS variant that is notG supported on MacOS 7.5.5.  No, I do not care to burn a coaster for each  such incident.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 May 2005 22:42:16 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)  Subject: Re: Appletalk on Alphas* Message-ID: <3dt1e7F2k7kU1@individual.net>  B In article <1115243598.15d52d6dadf53139e8d954c6f6b969e5@teranews>,0 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Dave Froble wrote:G >> Maybe it's time for those who know where the bones are buried to dig I >> them up and see what can be done.  Even if it's getting a release from ; >> whoever's holding up the sources being on the freeware.   >  > I > In this era where "OpenSource" is the big buzzword,  HP should take all H > the old retired VMS software and make it opensource. It it market thisF > as a great donation to the open source community, and would enanableC > packages suchas the apple talk stalk (or parts thereof) to remain  > usable, maintained by users. > G > HP shoudl negotiate with APPLE to make the appeltalk portion owner by G > Apple talk open source, especially if the source contains so much VMS 3 > specific code that it would be useless to others.   E Just like with Ultrix, there are so many hands in the pot there could D never be an agreement between all parties concerned for most of it. 8 Have you ever seen a bunch of lawyers agree on anything?   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 4 May 2005 15:00:10 -0700 $ From: hduman@legacyglucosesensor.org& Subject: Re: DECUS Fall Symposium 1968C Message-ID: <1115244010.399266.151090@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   G Encompass suggested that I post the question here. Thanks for the tips,  I'll give them a try!    ------------------------------   Date: 4 May 2005 15:01:13 -0700 $ From: hduman@legacyglucosesensor.org& Subject: Re: DECUS Fall Symposium 1968C Message-ID: <1115244073.731574.290030@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   F I Googled my eyes out the other day, nothing about the 1968 symposium,9 and he didn't publish this specific data. Thanks, though!    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 20:50:40 -0400+ From: "John S." <j.simakauskas@comcast.net> & Subject: Re: DECUS Fall Symposium 19680 Message-ID: <276dnTk9i_1-8OTfRVn-ow@comcast.com>  2 <hduman@legacyglucosesensor.org> wrote in message = news:1115150841.350630.104580@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... D >I have found a reference to a topic presented by A.H. Kadish at theG > 1968 DECUS Fall Symposium. Could someone please point me in the right F > direction of how I might go about finding a copy of the proceedings?	 > Thanks~  > H Using AltaVista, I found a link to the Charles Babbage Institute at the H University of Minnesota. It looks like they may have (had?) what you're ! looking for in their collections. 0 The library home page is http://www.cbi.umn.edu/J This page http://www.cbi.umn.edu/collections/inv/cbi00150.html  is titled H "Digital Equipment Computer Users Society Proceedings and Publications, H 1962-1992" and lists a reel of microfilm with the 1968 Proceedings.  It  can't hurt to contact them.    ------------------------------   Date: 4 May 2005 14:47:06 -0700  From: JimStrehlow@data911.com F Subject: Re: Eliminating files with extraneous characters in filenamesC Message-ID: <1115243226.298899.136140@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   > We get "strange file names" on NFS (network file system) filesF sometimes when you use mIxEd CaSe in the filename. I notice additional, characters every time the case is different.F Building the file using all lowercase or all UPPERCASE has reduced our particular application woes.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 May 2005 15:35:32 -0700  From: "R Boyd" <bob@hax.com>. Subject: Re: finding the (biggest) bottle neckC Message-ID: <1115246131.981326.136900@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>    Kerry,  E You didn't mention which system you are running your ABS jobs on.  It G could matter a lot whether you are running the jobs on your GS140 or on 
 the VAXen.  G There are also possibilities for tuning your backups in various ways to ? optimize use of resources including scheduling to get more even > distribution of tape drive load, making sure that ABS is usingD OVERLAPPED backups on jobs that have multiple disk volumes selected,F tuning of the backups to use larger blocks on the savesets, increasingB the size of XOR groups from the default, making sure that all yourE drives are enabled for FAST_SKIP, as well as tuning of quotas for the  ABS userid.    Robert Boyd  BobAtHaxDotCom   Main, Kerry wrote: > > -----Original Message-----6 > > From: Jack Patteeuw [mailto:jjpatteeuw@nospam.net] > > Sent: May 1, 2005 10:39 PM > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com . > > Subject: finding the (biggest) bottle neck > > C > > I have just recently gotten back into VMS after 10 years on the  "dark  > > side" (Tru64 and Solaris). > > F > > The biggest problem we have with our mixed VAX (3 - 7630)/Alpha (1 - C > > GS140) cluster is backups.  Full backups can take over 14 hours  using 
 > > ABS/MDMS.  > > G > > All disk are on one CI, with HSJ40 and HSJ50 controllers.  Most are   @ > > JBOD, but we want to RAID 5 some, which I know will probably > > slow disk I/O. > > E > > All tape (TZ88's) are on another CI using a different HSJ50.  The : > > previous Sys Admin says adding more tape drives to the > > process did not @ > > improve thing (we are only using 4-6, but have 12 available) > > F > > We have an extremely limited budget, so I need to figure out where to> > > get the "most bang for the buck" with any upgrade.  My gut > > says, upgrade C > > the tapes to TZ89, but I need some proof.  Or would we get more - > > performance out of a HSJ80 on the disks ?  > > ? > > I need suggestions on how to measure the "capacity" of each  > > CI as wellA > > as the throughput of the HSJ's and the processors themselves.  > >  >  > Jack,  > E > Fwiw, a similar environment took the approach of using a small DS25  to? > act as a tape server (and occasional batch job server) with a 	 dedicated 
 > tape drive.  > A > This might be outside your budget, but it kept the cpu / memory  /adapterE > backup loads off the other Alpha and VAX systems they had which was , > dedicated to interactive and applic tasks. > A > It also made for some interesting justifications for subsequent  upgradesF > as they could see that some of their jobs which ran for 10+ hours on8 > VAX's ran in about an hour on the new "tape server"... >  > :-)  > 	 > Regards  >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultant  > HP Services Canada > Voice: 613-592-4660  > Fax: 613-591-4477  > kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom > (remove the DOT's and AT)  > & > "OpenVMS has always had integrity ..  > Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 20:36:17 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> . Subject: RE: finding the (biggest) bottle neckR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB5ED05B@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----& > From: R Boyd [mailto:bob@hax.com]=20 > Sent: May 4, 2005 6:36 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 0 > Subject: Re: finding the (biggest) bottle neck >=20 > Kerry, >=20G > You didn't mention which system you are running your ABS jobs on.  It @ > could matter a lot whether you are running the jobs on your=20
 > GS140 or on  > the VAXen. >=20< > There are also possibilities for tuning your backups in=20 > various ways to A > optimize use of resources including scheduling to get more even @ > distribution of tape drive load, making sure that ABS is usingF > OVERLAPPED backups on jobs that have multiple disk volumes selected,H > tuning of the backups to use larger blocks on the savesets, increasingD > the size of XOR groups from the default, making sure that all yourG > drives are enabled for FAST_SKIP, as well as tuning of quotas for the 
 > ABS userid.  >=20
 > Robert Boyd  > BobAtHaxDotCom >=20 > Main, Kerry wrote:  > > > -----Original Message-----8 > > > From: Jack Patteeuw [mailto:jjpatteeuw@nospam.net]  > > > Sent: May 1, 2005 10:39 PM > > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 0 > > > Subject: finding the (biggest) bottle neck > > >    Robert,   E Jack was the original thread author, not me. But your suggestions are & certainly ones for Robert to consider.   :-)    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 17:30:22 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 8 Subject: Re: HP hostility to alpha holding back itanium?B Message-ID: <1115242249.09898149f2a556e6e6b54fb46aa637cd@teranews>   "Main, Kerry" wrote:: > JF - wow, the x86 folks really have bitten you big time. > G > That same argument has been around since the x86 was first born (what G > was it - 15, 20 years ago?) i.e. "this newest x86 is so cool there is I > nothing it can't do, so everyone else should just move to it and forget  > everything else."   F Sorry. The original 8086 was nothing more than a fancy toy controller,E 16 bit CPU with 8 bit bus, at the same time as IBM mainframes were 32 A bit computers with 24 bit addressing and 32 bit buses and huge IO G capacity. The 8086 couldn't even approach those. And not long after the H 8086 came the vax with full 32 bit addressing and far more features than	 the 8086.   F The 8086 has moved a LOT since then and is now quite respectable, withF many 64 bit features and speed that rivals all other enterprise chips.F And AMD's version has the stuff to access memory very quickly, simular to what Alpha has.  G Its origins may be insignificant, and it may have been used in billions F toy wintel boxes, but the fact remains that the 8086 today can be usedG as a building block of serious enterprise class servers that don't look H too shabby against competitors such as Power, Sparc and that IA64 thing.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 17:39:49 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>8 Subject: Re: HP hostility to alpha holding back itanium?= Message-ID: <PrudnVSAYJS73OTfRVn-2Q@metrocastcablevision.com>    Main, Kerry wrote:   ...   G > That same argument has been around since the x86 was first born (what  > was it - 15, 20 years ago?)   E Speaking from ignorance as usual, I see.  The 8086 was introduced in  H 1078, the 8088 (the slightly hobbled sibling around which IBM built its K PC) in 1979, and the 80386 (the first 32-bit member of the family) in 1985.     +   i.e. "this newest x86 is so cool there is I > nothing it can't do, so everyone else should just move to it and forget  > everything else."   ) And speaking the usual horseshit as well.   G When the IBM PC came out, the inferiority of the x86 to the PDP-11 was  G so evident that DEC sank hundreds of millions of dollars into creating  I an 11-based alternative.  Most observers agreed that the alternative was  H superior (rather than claiming that the x86 was in any way 'cool'), but ) the de facto standard won the day anyway.   H When the 80386 appeared, DEC therefore *should* have had more of a clue E that, uncool though the architecture was, it had the *capability* to  B challenge VAX and the *acceptance* (by virtue of its standardized D nature) to constitute an eventual major threat.  But since DEC also ; seemed oblivious to the more immediate threat posed by the  E architecturally-superior 68K product line, it's no great wonder that  I they blew it a second time with respect to x86 (and happened to be saved  I from eating crow as immediately as they had with the original PC because  F 32-bit systems and applications were far slower appearing for the 386 F than they had been for the original PC:  it was, rather, the 68K that E started eating DEC's lunch in the Unix workstation market - at least  B until the 68K itself got squashed between the maturing 32-bit x86 D infrastructure plus the emergence of 64-bit RISC on the high end, a I strangulation not dissimilar to that which Itanic now faces while caught   between x86-64 and POWER5).   E It seems that you'd like DEC's successors to make the same mistake a  E third time in dealing with x86-64, even though (unlike the situation  H with the 386) the 64-bit OSs and at least quite a few major server-side H applications to support x86-64 already exist.  The x86 architecture may D still be ugly (though AMD actually cleaned up a few of the warts in I moving it to 64 bits, just as some - like segments - pretty much dropped  F off in the move to 32 bits), but it offers damn good performance at a B damn attractive price, plus at least sufficiently respectable RAS @ features that it's well worth considering for anything short of G mainframe/Tandem/VAXft reliability requirements (and indeed, companies  = like Marathon - which I think got bought - and Stratus offer  = hardware-fault-tolerant x86 systems if that's what you need).   B Intel would have *liked* to have been able to keep x86 in a safe, G low-end 32-bit corral so that it could field its single-sourced Itanic  D as the sole 'industry-standard' 64-bit alternative to 'proprietary' G (though in some cases multiply-sourced) 64-bit RISC products.  But AMD  G (with a little help from its friends) blew that plan out of the water,  D and now Intel's Plan B not only includes robust 64-bit features and B higher-end development for x86 but standardization on surrounding F infrastructure which will allow x86 chips to be plugged into the same 3 high-end hardware that supports Itanics, come 2007.   C Frantically waving your hands and telling people that the x86 tide  H really isn't coming in again just as it has in the past isn't likely to G save Itanic from it, but just to get a few more people drowned if they  G are so foolish as to pay attention to you.  Given that they've already  F taken a relatively recent bath by believing that they could commit to K Alpha for the long term, that's hardly responsible (let alone considerate).    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 17:49:19 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>8 Subject: Re: HP hostility to alpha holding back itanium?= Message-ID: <EOqdnbty85D83uTfRVn-og@metrocastcablevision.com>    Bill Todd wrote:   ...       The 8086 was introduced in  > 1078  6 During the illustrious reign of William the Conqueror.  E Or perhaps that was a typo, and it was introduced more like in 1978.  8 Still a good deal more than '15 - 20 years ago', though.   - bill   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 20:32:48 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> 8 Subject: RE: HP hostility to alpha holding back itanium?R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB5ED05A@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----4 > From: Bill Todd [mailto:billtodd@metrocast.net]=20 > Sent: May 4, 2005 5:40 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com : > Subject: Re: HP hostility to alpha holding back itanium? >=20 > Main, Kerry wrote: >=20 > ...  >=20A > > That same argument has been around since the x86 was first=20  > born (what > > was it - 15, 20 years ago?)  >=20I > Speaking from ignorance as usual, I see.  The 8086 was introduced in=20 B > 1078, the 8088 (the slightly hobbled sibling around which IBM=20 > built its=20? > PC) in 1979, and the 80386 (the first 32-bit member of the=20  > family) in 1985. >=20  G Mmm... 1078 eh?  Thx for the history lesson. I will be sure to remember  this.    :-)    >=20- >   i.e. "this newest x86 is so cool there is @ > > nothing it can't do, so everyone else should just move to=20 > it and forget  > > everything else."  >=20+ > And speaking the usual horseshit as well.  >=20   Another bad hair day, eh?   < Who cares what year or even what century the PC was born?=20  F Geeezz - saying that one cpu architecture is going to force all others@ out (as JF was insinuating with his reference to x86's replacing> mainframes) is ridiculous - no matter what or how good the cpu architecture is.  E Lets keep things in perspective here. Server performance and other HW ? features is only one of many considerations when looking at new 
 platforms.  D Remember that Customers buy computers to run applications to address business requirements.=20   B The server HW is important to Cust IT staff, vendors and newsgroupB participants, but it is only a small part of any IT infrastructureG costs. Staff, support and software costs typically dwarf the overall hw H costs and the server is only a sub-component of the HW (storage, networkF etc) costs. Getting a Customer to replace or rewrite 10-15-30 years ofD investment in business logic to another OS because that OS has a newD chip available that is x% faster than the Cust's current vendor chipE strategy "at a particular point in time" is just not in the cards.=20   H The *costs and risks* to migrate, test (this is huge), QA and re-licenseC the business software, tools, development and operations utilities, @ custom code, not to mention re-training or re-staffing (who haveH technical skills, but no business logic specific to that environment) ofH moving to an entirely different OS is the 800lb gorilla - not the server HW.   G And if you have talked to any CEO lately, they would tell you that they C want to *cut* IT costs and invest in areas that help their business B improve the bottom line. Any CIO that goes to the CEO and requestsG buckets of $'s to port to any new OS platform better have an incredibly G good TCO and ROI justification that takes into consideration all of the @ risks and costs I just mentioned. Either that or the CIO will be% pounding the pavement in short order.   E What CEO's want today is not "rip and replace", but rather "integrate 9 new technologies and make better use of what we have".=20   D From an OpenVMS perspective, that is why the Itanium/Alpha/VAX mixedH clusters support is a very good investment protection strategy. And from@ an obviously biased vendor viewpoint, this mixed cluster supportB represents a brilliant OS architecture i.e. what other OS platformA supports 3 different architectures (CISC, RISC, EPIC) in the same F cluster running different OS versions and all accessing the same data?  C [insert personal insults and spelling corrections from comp.os.vms. 
 moderator]   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 21:37:50 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 8 Subject: Re: HP hostility to alpha holding back itanium?0 Message-ID: <117iu7i7d6ibn74@corp.supernews.com>   Main, Kerry wrote:  H > Geeezz - saying that one cpu architecture is going to force all othersB > out (as JF was insinuating with his reference to x86's replacing@ > mainframes) is ridiculous - no matter what or how good the cpu > architecture is.   Doesn't sound reasonable.   G > Lets keep things in perspective here. Server performance and other HW A > features is only one of many considerations when looking at new  > platforms.   Yep!  F > Remember that Customers buy computers to run applications to address > business requirements.     Yep!  D > The server HW is important to Cust IT staff, vendors and newsgroupD > participants, but it is only a small part of any IT infrastructureI > costs. Staff, support and software costs typically dwarf the overall hw J > costs and the server is only a sub-component of the HW (storage, networkH > etc) costs. Getting a Customer to replace or rewrite 10-15-30 years ofF > investment in business logic to another OS because that OS has a newF > chip available that is x% faster than the Cust's current vendor chipE > strategy "at a particular point in time" is just not in the cards.    B Could we go back to the reason for killing Alpha?  Huh?  Could we?  J > The *costs and risks* to migrate, test (this is huge), QA and re-licenseE > the business software, tools, development and operations utilities, B > custom code, not to mention re-training or re-staffing (who haveJ > technical skills, but no business logic specific to that environment) ofJ > moving to an entirely different OS is the 800lb gorilla - not the server > HW.   ) Yes, we must revisit the murder of Alpha!   I > And if you have talked to any CEO lately, they would tell you that they E > want to *cut* IT costs and invest in areas that help their business D > improve the bottom line. Any CIO that goes to the CEO and requestsI > buckets of $'s to port to any new OS platform better have an incredibly I > good TCO and ROI justification that takes into consideration all of the B > risks and costs I just mentioned. Either that or the CIO will be' > pounding the pavement in short order.   < Gee, how many CIOs bit the bullet over the killing of Alpha?  G > What CEO's want today is not "rip and replace", but rather "integrate 9 > new technologies and make better use of what we have".    " Did I remember to ask about Alpha?  F > From an OpenVMS perspective, that is why the Itanium/Alpha/VAX mixedJ > clusters support is a very good investment protection strategy. And fromB > an obviously biased vendor viewpoint, this mixed cluster supportD > represents a brilliant OS architecture i.e. what other OS platformC > supports 3 different architectures (CISC, RISC, EPIC) in the same H > cluster running different OS versions and all accessing the same data?  F Uh, I'm sure some people are going to ask why they can't just stay on F Alpha, with the architecture continuing to advance, rather than doing L all the things you mentioned above.  Without all the costs forced upon them.  3 You should never have responded, bad, bad judgment!    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 01:59:09 GMT % From: Roger Ivie <rivie@ridgenet.net> 8 Subject: Re: HP hostility to alpha holding back itanium?3 Message-ID: <slrnd7ivfe.4tp.rivie@Stench.no.domain>   = On 2005-05-04, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote: H > Sorry. The original 8086 was nothing more than a fancy toy controller, > 16 bit CPU with 8 bit bus,    E The original 8086 had a 16-bit bus. It was the cut down 8088 that had  the 8-bit bus.   > And not long after the0 > 8086 came the vax with full 32 bit addressing   D For certain definitions of "full". Until recently, the VAX supported only 30-bit physical addresses.  --  
 Roger Ivie rivie@ridgenet.net http://anachronda.webhop.org/  -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- 
 Version: 3.12 H GCS/P d- s:+++ a+ C++ UB--(++++) !P L- !E W++ N++ o-- K w O- M+ V+++ PS+? PE++ Y+ PGP t+ 5+ X-- R tv++ b++ DI+++ D+ G e++ h--- r+++ z+++   ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------    ------------------------------   Date: 4 May 2005 21:33:45 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)A Subject: Re: Maybe HP should get out of the hardware business.... * Message-ID: <3dstdpF20ouU1@individual.net>  0 In article <117ibt82qhdv9de@corp.supernews.com>,* 	Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: > Bob Koehler wrote:] >> In article <117hmu51p189v54@corp.supernews.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  >>  I >>>If you're in an environment where performance is everything, then VMS  K >>>may not be for you.  If you're in an environment where the strengths of  > >>>VMS aren't important, than again, VMS may not be for you.   >>   >>  G >>    Define "performance".  If it's disk I/O you might look elsewhere. @ >>    If it's number crunching it's still hard to beat an Alpha. >>   > L > Hey, you're preaching to the choir.  I was just answering Bill's comments.   @ I was just responding to the expressed idea that somehow Itanium@ was going to save VMS.  If VMS on Itanium is seen as inferior toA other OSes (and remember, we have already been shown that reality ? is unimportant and perception is everything.) then it will die. > VMS needs to run on the best platform available or at the very1 least on the same one as all of the popular OSes.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 20:02:56 GMT A From: "Colin Butcher" <colin_DOT.butcher_AT@xdelta_DOT.co_DOT.uk> & Subject: Re: Missing disk from vax spl; Message-ID: <QT9ee.25215$G8.756@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>     Probably. Where are you located?   --     Hope this helps, Colin. ) colin DOT butcher AT xdelta DOT co DOT uk E It's not mine, but I like this definition: Legacy = stuff that works. 8 "Dan Williams" <williams.dan@gmail.com> wrote in message= news:1115205820.109890.209930@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...    ------------------------------   Date: 4 May 2005 14:43:18 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) & Subject: Re: OpenVMS using RAID drives3 Message-ID: <xyKOC1mwH8XI@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <KU5ee.4898$dT7.4627@news.cpqcorp.net>, Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> writes: > Bob Koehler wrote:I >>    It depends on the version of VMS.  Since your's has the silent Open I >>    stuck on it, it almost certainly does support 2TB disks.  Check the @ >>    SPD for your version (http://h18000.www1.hp.com/info/spd). > E > In 5.5-2 and earlier versions, the volume size limit was 8 GB (8.5  I > billion bytes). That was raised to 1 terabyte in V6.0. But sorry, 2 TB  G > is too big for support in any version of VMS at present. File system  3 > development work is required to raise this limit.   F    Oops, I was thinking it was already in the 16TB range.  I must haveG    been misremembering a storage demo that was actually several logical     volumes.    ------------------------------   Date: 4 May 2005 14:29:20 -0700 ' From: "DL Phillips" <whohe@whoever.com> & Subject: Re: OpenVMS using RAID drivesC Message-ID: <1115242160.822910.321200@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>    Bob Koehler wrote:A > In article <KU5ee.4898$dT7.4627@news.cpqcorp.net>, Keith Parris & <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> writes: > > Bob Koehler wrote:F > >>    It depends on the version of VMS.  Since your's has the silent OpenG > >>    stuck on it, it almost certainly does support 2TB disks.  Check  the B > >>    SPD for your version (http://h18000.www1.hp.com/info/spd). > > F > > In 5.5-2 and earlier versions, the volume size limit was 8 GB (8.5G > > billion bytes). That was raised to 1 terabyte in V6.0. But sorry, 2  TBA > > is too big for support in any version of VMS at present. File  system5 > > development work is required to raise this limit.  > C >    Oops, I was thinking it was already in the 16TB range.  I must  haveA >    been misremembering a storage demo that was actually several5 logical	
 >    volumes.s  C Here's an actual quote from an HP OpenVMS engineer: "the feeling isp that 1TB is sufficient."  > Here are a couple of other quotes with which most of should be	 familiar:l  2 Bill Gates: "640K ought to be enough for anybody."  D Realising his error in time, Mr. Gates went on to build an empire by? selling software that eats up memory by the Mega- and GigaByte.   G Ken Olson: "There is no reason for any individual to have a computer inh their home."  E By not realising his error in time, Mr. Olson's company was overtakeni  by those who could see a reason.  
 Nuff Said?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 20:16:32 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>e& Subject: Re: OpenVMS using RAID drives, Message-ID: <uImdnaDOqJTD-uTfRVn-1w@igs.net>   DL Phillips wrote: > Bob Koehler wrote:B >> In article <KU5ee.4898$dT7.4627@news.cpqcorp.net>, Keith Parris( > <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> writes: >>> Bob Koehler wrote:F >>>>    It depends on the version of VMS.  Since your's has the silentE >>>>    Open stuck on it, it almost certainly does support 2TB disks.y& >>>>    Check the SPD for your version* >>>> (http://h18000.www1.hp.com/info/spd). >>>MF >>> In 5.5-2 and earlier versions, the volume size limit was 8 GB (8.5G >>> billion bytes). That was raised to 1 terabyte in V6.0. But sorry, 2pD >>> TB is too big for support in any version of VMS at present. File< >>> system development work is required to raise this limit. >>D >>    Oops, I was thinking it was already in the 16TB range.  I mustG >>    have been misremembering a storage demo that was actually several- >>    logical volumes. > E > Here's an actual quote from an HP OpenVMS engineer: "the feeling iso > that 1TB is sufficient." >l@ > Here are a couple of other quotes with which most of should be > familiar:5 >74 > Bill Gates: "640K ought to be enough for anybody." > F > Realising his error in time, Mr. Gates went on to build an empire byA > selling software that eats up memory by the Mega- and GigaByte.  >aF > Ken Olson: "There is no reason for any individual to have a computer > in their home."s >uG > By not realising his error in time, Mr. Olson's company was overtakenC" > by those who could see a reason. >t > Nuff Said?    L Imagine all the features VMS would have had today if the past 4 years wern't. largely devoted to porting efforts from Alpha.  E In case you were wondering, this is a slap at the 'rocket scientists'a' running ChumPHaq, not OVMS Engineering.2   --F OpenVMS - The never advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 20:59:30 -0500y, From: "Meat Loaf" <julie.dayton@comcast.net>& Subject: Re: OpenVMS using RAID drives0 Message-ID: <M_Sdnd2XC--f4-TfRVn-gg@comcast.com>   stinehelferw wrote:y   > We have an OpenVMS network. D > We are purchasing an archival system (re: several RAID drives withF > smart controller).  The RAID drives would appear as a single 2 TerraE > Byte disk.  Can OpenVMS recognize a "disk" of that size or would we : > just have to settle for a SCSI bay full of 400GB drives?  F There are different types of raid systems.  An intelligent raid systemC will allow you to setup it's 2TB of disk space by using drives in a D Raid 0,1,5 or 10 (1+0) configuration yielding 2TB of available spaceE and then  it could be partitioned to look to the OS as if it were say A two 1TB or four 500GB drives.  With this in mind you could create D several smaller partitions and mount these all as a volume set.  YouG may still be limited to any one single file not to exceed 1TB.  I can't - tell for sure what your usage is going to be.   B I had been performing a database dump (snapshot) to an empty 9.1GBF drive and then I would back it up later to a DDS-3 DAT tape.  Then oneG day the drive was not large enough.  So I mounted two 9.1GB drives in al9 volume set and the file now spans drives and allows me to    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 21:12:30 -0500-2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>& Subject: Re: OpenVMS using RAID drives+ Message-ID: <4279810E.DF1F6BF2@comcast.net>/   Bob Koehler wrote: > W > In article <42790964.7000503@MMaz.com>, "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> writes:L > >KI > > Perhaps this is a dumb question, but does any one really have any onenI > > application that uses a single file of that size?  Presuming there is F > > any type of underlying databases, most databases will allow you toJ > > spread the areas across multiple spindles, or RAID partitions, therebyG > > making the individual file size, or volume size limit irrelevant...s > >u > E >    There are lots of applications that are too dumb to spread thier  >    files around.  . Imagine managing an RMS indexed file of 1TB...  	 *SHUDDER*b   -- f David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemsf http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:w" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/t   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 21:11:11 -0500e2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>& Subject: Re: OpenVMS using RAID drives+ Message-ID: <427980BE.6CDE6181@comcast.net>d   DL Phillips wrote: >  > Bob Koehler wrote:C > > In article <KU5ee.4898$dT7.4627@news.cpqcorp.net>, Keith Parriso( > <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> writes: > > > Bob Koehler wrote:H > > >>    It depends on the version of VMS.  Since your's has the silent > OpenI > > >>    stuck on it, it almost certainly does support 2TB disks.  Check  > thefD > > >>    SPD for your version (http://h18000.www1.hp.com/info/spd). > > > H > > > In 5.5-2 and earlier versions, the volume size limit was 8 GB (8.5I > > > billion bytes). That was raised to 1 terabyte in V6.0. But sorry, 2o > TBC > > > is too big for support in any version of VMS at present. Filer > system7 > > > development work is required to raise this limit.i > >PE > >    Oops, I was thinking it was already in the 16TB range.  I musts > haveC > >    been misremembering a storage demo that was actually severale	 > logical  > >    volumes.l > E > Here's an actual quote from an HP OpenVMS engineer: "the feeling isa > that 1TB is sufficient."  D More likely, the truth is that the limits of unsigned longwords haveH been reached and now they'll have to invent a 64-bit integer datatype toH contain a sufficiently large number of 512-byte disk blocks to representD the greatest possible extent of a single file that would fill such a
 large volume.|  G If one is loath to use volume-sets (HBVS recommended for these!), or if H software constraints prohibit their use (Oracle chokes on 'em), then the' 1TB limit may represent a "brick wall".e  @ > Here are a couple of other quotes with which most of should be > familiar:u > 4 > Bill Gates: "640K ought to be enough for anybody." > F > Realising his error in time, Mr. Gates went on to build an empire byA > selling software that eats up memory by the Mega- and GigaByte.: > I > Ken Olson: "There is no reason for any individual to have a computer inw > their home." > G > By not realising his error in time, Mr. Olson's company was overtaken," > by those who could see a reason. >  > Nuff Said?   Not quite yet.  G OpenVMS Engineering (et al): VMS for (IA32, x86-64) cannot compete with F alternative operating systems; the market for such would be so limited5 as to prevent recovery of the development investment.h  G Such nay-sayers have yet to see the error of their ways, though it will4H likely dawn on them as they clean out their desks for last time when VMS, finally falls victim to such lack of vision.   -- y David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:o" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/v  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/o   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 22:27:45 -0400v- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>C& Subject: Re: OpenVMS using RAID drivesB Message-ID: <1115260055.e992fdc83830ccacb9c334af70f59eb6@teranews>   David J Dachtera wrote:u0 > Imagine managing an RMS indexed file of 1TB... >  > *SHUDDER*a  ' Running on an all mighty microvax II...a  
 *BIG SHUDDER*c   :-)E   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 02:35:16 GMT1  From: John Santos <john@egh.com>& Subject: Re: OpenVMS using RAID drives) Message-ID: <EDfee.7593$Ri.4862@trnddc08>s   Bob Koehler wrote:W > In article <42790964.7000503@MMaz.com>, "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> writes:f > H >>Perhaps this is a dumb question, but does any one really have any one H >>application that uses a single file of that size?  Presuming there is E >>any type of underlying databases, most databases will allow you to fI >>spread the areas across multiple spindles, or RAID partitions, thereby gE >>making the individual file size, or volume size limit irrelevant...  >> >  > E >    There are lots of applications that are too dumb to spread thiert >    files around.    B Is the 1TB an ODS-2/ODS-5 limit, or is it a disk driver limit?  In? other words, is it possible to mount a larger disk /foreign andeE use it as raw storage and/or write a trivial ACP (which only supportst> a single, volume-filling, contiguous file and maps all virtual? i/o to logical i/o of the same block (+- a small constant) thats supports bigger volumes.  D My theory here is if you only want larger volumes to support single E immense database files, then you don't need all the other stuff, just D one single immense file per volume, which you can create once with aE special initialization utility.  If you want more than one file, theywF have to be smaller, so partition it and use ODS.  This is more work toD manage than a full-blown file system, but if you only have a handfulC of files (realistically, how many multi-terabyte files can you have H on a system?) the management wouldn't be onerous, and writing a trivial,C stripped-down ACP would be much less work than modifying F11BXQP to # support larger disks transparently.   ? Glen Everhart could probably write such an ACP before lunch ;-)0   -- J John Santoss Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 21:46:50 -0700s+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> & Subject: Re: OpenVMS using RAID drives' Message-ID: <4279A53A.2070709@MMaz.com>    David J Dachtera wrote:    >Bob Koehler wrote:  >  1 >vW >>In article <42790964.7000503@MMaz.com>, "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@MMaz.com> writes:o >>     >>H >>>Perhaps this is a dumb question, but does any one really have any oneH >>>application that uses a single file of that size?  Presuming there isE >>>any type of underlying databases, most databases will allow you tosI >>>spread the areas across multiple spindles, or RAID partitions, therebyuF >>>making the individual file size, or volume size limit irrelevant... >>> 	 >>>      i >>>nE >>   There are lots of applications that are too dumb to spread thier  >>   files around. >>     >> >r/ >Imagine managing an RMS indexed file of 1TB...h >m
 >*SHUDDER* >  o >bH If the application is so dumb to create a single file of that size, one B should fix the application...  Presuming that it had record sizes D pressing the max limit of 32k, that would represent over 33 million E records at 1TB.  If the record size was more reasonable in size, the eI number of records could easily double, triple, or even quadruple, if not  D more.  An RMS file with the easy potential of more than 100 million I records is nuts, and there is even debate about needing to double that?  1C This is certainly an example of using the wrong tool for the job...    Barryh   -- y  < Barry Treahy, Jr                     E-mail: Treahy@MMaz.com< Midwest Microwave, Inc.                  Phone: 480/314-1320< Vice President & CIO                      FAX:  480/661-7028  I                        ... but it's a DRY HEAT!                          D   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 01:15:03 -0400 . From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>& Subject: Re: OpenVMS using RAID drivesB Message-ID: <1115270075.32983fa00c03690d441321efddc646b2@teranews>   "Barry Treahy, Jr." wrote:E > more.  An RMS file with the easy potential of more than 100 milliontI > records is nuts, and there is even debate about needing to double that? E > This is certainly an example of using the wrong tool for the job...a  H Pardon my ignorance, But in what way would RMS be so much less efficient= than some Oracle or RDB database (assuming a mostly read only  application) ? A    B Is there some document somewhere that describres the philosophicalE diofferences between RDB and RMS in terms of building and maintaining 	 indices ?   G I can understand RDB having better locking and transaction rollback forr< multiple record update transactions, as well as field formatD definitions, but in terms of the actualy storage and indices, is RMS! really that much less efficient ?    ------------------------------   Date: 4 May 2005 14:41:02 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 1 Subject: Re: Parameters of system service $SETENV 3 Message-ID: <UOeKyP2DYMFt@eisner.encompasserve.org>t  ^ In article <000201c550b4$54889620$994614ac@wat153>, "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de> writes: > Hello, > D > Does anybody know how to call the System Service SYS$SETENV. It isI > totally undocumented till OpenVMS 8.2. If you could give an example, ita > would be helpfull. > ! > TIA and best regards R. Wingert-  &    Have you tried the 8.2 online docs?   ------------------------------   Date: 4 May 2005 19:26:02 -0700c$ From: sam_brandt50@samsroverdogs.com/ Subject: Subject: Looking for more information..C Message-ID: <1115259962.552339.212650@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   E Hi I am interested in more information.  Where is the best spot?  You / can email me at any of the following addresses:b4                                          Thanks, Sam0 masontss28@samsroverdogs.com alex28@gantabot.comB james28@slickbillspoliticalbiz.com grant28@getthefourthedition.com< dave28@slowmovingtrains.org harlo28@gillionpossibilities.comG bob28@spacemanspifflandsonthemoon.com mary28@goodmedicalinformation.orgM7 jason28@spanishtires.net domingo28@goodwalkinggroup.comg4 carlo28@spotteddogteam.com randy28@greateditionz.com4 jeff28@stillthebomb.com vaughn28@greatshowforyou.biz0 chee28@stingingrose.com edward28@greenapplez.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 20:08:10 -0500 , From: "Meat Loaf" <julie.dayton@comcast.net>* Subject: Re: TCPIP FTP Problem OpenVMS 7.30 Message-ID: <7-udnYDPsuJn7OTfRVn-hA@comcast.com>   Matt Muggeridge wrote:  E > I'm not sure how you get a service configured without an associatedm7 > user name.  Anyway, a couple of easy things to try...  > H > First, you should be using @SYS$STARTUP:TCPIP$FTP_STARTUP/SHUTDOWN to H > start/stop the service.  Otherwise, starting from scratch should only 1 > require you to delete the TCPIP$FTP account and-D > SYS$SYSDEVICE:[TCPIP$FTP] directory.  You may also need to execute > TCPIP SET NOSERV FTP.r > D > Then rerun @SYS$MANAGER:TCPIP$CONFIG to re-enable the FTP service. >  > Matt.n > : > "Meat Loaf" <julie.dayton@comcast.net> wrote in message , > news:LtmdnYXVbo8Dfe_fRVn-og@comcast.com... > > JF Mezei wrote:s > >  > >> Meat Loaf wrote:- > >> >D > >> > Also I noticed today if you enter "$ tcpip show services" FTPB > shows >> > up as disabled, but when we ran the network config we# > installed it >> > and enabled it.a > > > C > >> The TCPIP software will disable a service if it finds that itshB > startup >> has failed a number of times. So if your FTP softwareB > still fails to >> start due to file protection problems, this is	 > normal.g > > > F > >> When a service is enabled, if a process hasn't taken control overD > the >> specified port, the TCPIP services software starting at 5.3F > will >> automatically start a process when there is an incoming call > to that >> port. > > > E > >> So disabling the service is fair if the TCPIP stack has realisedl3 > that >> the process fails whenever it is started.  > >  > > Another bit of information.e > > $ > > ***** On my working system ***** > > / > > PSSBCK::System$ tcpip sho service ftp /fully > >  > > Service: FTP0 > >                           State:     EnabledB > > Port:               21     Protocol:  TCP             Address:; > > 0.0.0.0 Inactivity:          5     User_name: TCPIP$FTPe > > Process:  TCPIP$FTPiG > > Limit:              10     Active:      0             Peak:       1i > > 0 > > File:         TCPIP$SYSTEM:TCPIP$FTP_RUN.COM > > Flags:        None > >  > > Socket Opts:  Rcheck Scheckc3 > > Receive:            0     Send:               0e > > E > > Log Opts:     Acpt Actv Dactv Conn Error Exit Logi Logo Mdfy Rjctt
 > > TimO Addra; > > File:        SYS$SYSDEVICE:[TCPIP$FTP]TCPIP$FTP_RUN.LOG  > >  > > Security > > Reject msg:  not defined > > Accept host: 0.0.0.0 > > Accept netw: 0.0.0.0 > >  > > ( > > ***** On my NOT working system ***** > > 0 > > BRKOUT::System$ tcpip show service ftp /full > >  > > Service: FTP1 > >                           State:     DisabledCB > > Port:               21     Protocol:  TCP             Address:< > > 0.0.0.0                           User_name: not defined > > Process:  TCPIP$FTPs > > $  > > F > > Is it possible to copy a tcpip$ftp configuration between systems?   D Thanks Matt I'll try taking out the service and then putting it backF again next.  I have been using SYS$MANAGER:TCPIP$FTP_STARTUP/SHUTDOWN.E This is where the files actually reside, but of course this is in the F SYS$Startup path also.  When I do run the FTP service manually it doesG work fine.  I did a "SPAWN/NOWAIT @sys$system:TCPIP$FTP_RUN" and then Ig? was able to use the FTP Server.  So it's close to working, justi something is not right.M   ------------------------------   Date: 4 May 2005 14:09:44 -0500u- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen))Y Subject: Re: Time to vote on your favorite slogan for the next OpenVMS License         plr3 Message-ID: <t6UeucRbXDCa@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Z In article <00A43409.79395CE6.1@tachysoft.com>, Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com> writes:# >>From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.coms >>X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vmshR >>Subject: Time to vote on your favorite slogan for the next OpenVMS License plate! >>Date: 3 May 2005 20:33:16 -0700e( >>Organization: http://groups.google.com >  >>C >>Time to vote on your favorite slogan for the next OpenVMS Licenseo >>plate. >>G >>Please visit:  www.openvms.org on the left nav bar the poll is there.n >>D >>The license plate will have a large OpenVMS in the middle with the, >>slogan underneath.  Please vote only once. >>E >>This poll will only be up on the web site until next Friday May 13.d >> > O > Not much use for those of us who live in states requiring both front and back 	 > plates.e  C I doubt that more than 50% of the prior VMS license plates that are ) currently on display are mounted on cars.e   ------------------------------   Date: 4 May 2005 14:37:08 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)tY Subject: Re: Time to vote on your favorite slogan for the next OpenVMS License         plE3 Message-ID: <2CK4LC9VcNd6@eisner.encompasserve.org>i  Z In article <00A43409.79395CE6.1@tachysoft.com>, Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com> writes: > O > Not much use for those of us who live in states requiring both front and backe	 > plates.7  G    If you don't live in Virginia, you can probably stick it in the back B    window.  (Tends to exceed Va.'s 4x4 limit for window blocking.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 17:42:11 -0400a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>3Y Subject: Re: Time to vote on your favorite slogan for the next OpenVMS License         pl-B Message-ID: <1115242941.3cb90a00f1d13de6da6e2fc06118dac5@teranews>  D > >Time to vote on your favorite slogan for the next OpenVMS License	 > >plate.p > >lH > >Please visit:  www.openvms.org on the left nav bar the poll is there.  B Looks like Kerry Main voted 24 times ! (there are 24 votes for the" integrity thing).  :-) :-) :-) :-)  G Right now, the big winnper is "____VMS, when downtime is not an option"e with 43% of the votes.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 May 2005 13:58:12 -0700 7 From: "flamingomn@hotmail.com" <flamingomn@hotmail.com>t+ Subject: Re: UAF search for last login date7C Message-ID: <1115240292.396858.321920@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>    thanks! F unfortunatly, i'm not allowed to install anything on this machine. so,< i've cut/pasted some of the dcl from this and other threads.  F the only problem i'm seeing is in the output.  there are <cr> and <lf> in the output.  F ideally, i'd like the output all on 1 line so i can import into excel.   here is the code i'm using:n     $ if p1.eqs.""   $ then  D $   write sys$output "Please provide last-login (interactive) cutoff date"6 $   exit   $ else  F $   cut_date = f$cvtime(p1)   !Convert to (default) comparision format   $ endife       $ close/nolog uafe   $ open /read /share uafo4 'f$parse("SYSUAF","SYS$SYSTEM:.DAT",,,"SYNTAX_ONLY")  $ open/write outfile outfile.dat   $loop:   $ read/end=done uaf recr  8 $ username=f$edit(f$extr(4,12,rec),"trim")             ! UAF$T_USERNAME,    UAF`r( $ owner=f$edit(f$extr(84,20,rec),"trim")  * $ defdev=f$edit(f$extr(116,11,rec),"trim")  * $ defdir=f$edit(f$extr(149,12,rec),"trim")   $ bin_date=f$extr(396,8,rec)    0 $ if f$cvsi(0,32,bin_date) .eq. 0 then goto loop  = $ asc_date=f$fao("!%D",f$cvui(32,32,f$fao("!AD",8,bin_date)))u   $ cmp_date=f$cvtime(asc_date)5' $ if cmp_date .les. cut_date then writec9 outfile username," ",owner," ",defdev+defdir," ",asc_datea
 $goto loop $done: $ close/nolog uafv $close /nolog outfilet  
 thanks again!n   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 18:12:44 -0400: From: "Hein RMS van den Heuvel" <hein@Hewlett-Packard.com>+ Subject: Re: UAF search for last login datei* Message-ID: <427891af@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  ) <flamingomn@hotmail.com> wrote in messages= news:1115240292.396858.321920@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...g	 > thanks!rH > unfortunatly, i'm not allowed to install anything on this machine. so,> > i've cut/pasted some of the dcl from this and other threads. >tH > the only problem i'm seeing is in the output.  there are <cr> and <lf> > in the output. >CH > ideally, i'd like the output all on 1 line so i can import into excel.  C My newsreader did not give me any furhter context for this message.a	 Anyway...o= The get this into excell is is best to output an 'csv' files.i Change the line:+     $ if cmp_date .les. cut_date then writed9 outfile username," ",owner," ",defdev+defdir," ",asc_date  to:r,      $ if cmp_date .les. cut_date then write9 outfile username,",",owner,",",defdev+defdir,",",asc_datet  J Then as you ftp the file to the windoze box be sure to do so in Ascii mode and you should be all set.  4 Where do you see those CR/LF's? On the PC or on VMS?  Between lines or between fields?   Hein.    ------------------------------   Date: 4 May 2005 14:38:45 -0500e; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)r4 Subject: Re: What is Different or Special About VMS?3 Message-ID: <gMGqZmtPVq$B@eisner.encompasserve.org>c  i In article <1115215355.246347.36680@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:6 > E > But isn't it effectively the same thing as MS pretty much copied or0* > bought from others? OK, almost the same.  F    Considering how much effort they've put into adding security holes,C    it's a bit farther away than almost.  All the good ideas they'vem!    stolen tend to be down inside.p   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.249 ************************