1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 08 May 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 255       Contents: Re: Appletalk on Alphas  Re: Appletalk on Alphas  Re: Appletalk on Alphas  Re: Appletalk on Alphas % Re: finding the (biggest) bottle neck / Re: HP hostility to alpha holding back itanium? 8 RE: Maybe HP should get out of the hardware business....8 Re: Maybe HP should get out of the hardware business....8 RE: Maybe HP should get out of the hardware business.... Re: naive hobbyist question 2 OS X support for HFS, was: Re: Appletalk on Alphas6 Re: OS X support for HFS, was: Re: Appletalk on Alphas6 Re: OS X support for HFS, was: Re: Appletalk on Alphas6 Re: OS X support for HFS, was: Re: Appletalk on Alphas OT: Google groups ' OT: Only slightly off-shore programming + Re: OT: Only slightly off-shore programming K Re: Time to vote on your favorite slogan for the next OpenVMS License plate P Re: Time to vote on your favorite slogan for the next OpenVMS License plate platP Re: Time to vote on your favorite slogan for the next OpenVMS Licenseplate Licen Re: VAXstation 4000 vlc  Re: VAXstation 4000 vlc  Re: VAXstation 4000 vlc  Re: VAXstation 4000 vlc   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 7 May 2005 12:42:44 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)   Subject: Re: Appletalk on Alphas3 Message-ID: <jdZpANfoJPsn@eisner.encompasserve.org>   k In article <1115426659.648635.5240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "toby" <toby@telegraphics.com.au> writes:  >  > Larry Kilgallen wrote:B >> In article <040520052217443232%nospam@yrl.co.uk>, Elliott Roper > <nospam@yrl.co.uk> writes: >> >> ...G >> From my perspective, OS X is not worth considering because from what > >> I can see it has no disk format in common with MacOS 7.5.5. > ) > ISO 9660 will work. Perhaps also FAT32.   , FAT32 seems to lose the Mac characteristics.  A But can you tell me how to write ISO 9660 onto a magnetic disk on  MacOS 7.5.5.   ------------------------------   Date: 7 May 2005 12:36:29 -0700 ' From: "toby" <toby@telegraphics.com.au>   Subject: Re: Appletalk on AlphasC Message-ID: <1115494589.406893.264590@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>    Larry Kilgallen wrote:C > In article <1115426659.648635.5240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, ) "toby" <toby@telegraphics.com.au> writes:  > >  > > Larry Kilgallen wrote:D > >> In article <040520052217443232%nospam@yrl.co.uk>, Elliott Roper > > <nospam@yrl.co.uk> writes: > >> > >> ...D > >> From my perspective, OS X is not worth considering because from what@ > >> I can see it has no disk format in common with MacOS 7.5.5. > > + > > ISO 9660 will work. Perhaps also FAT32.  > . > FAT32 seems to lose the Mac characteristics. > C > But can you tell me how to write ISO 9660 onto a magnetic disk on  > MacOS 7.5.5.  D I inferred from context that you must have been trying CDs, since itC seems implausible to me that OS X won't mount HFS partitions from a  hard disk used with 7.5.  A How exactly did you confirm this? (Depending on how you made your & tests, I may have to try this myself.)  E The OS X disk tools such as "hdiutil" through 10.4 support HFS, which B seems a very fertile place to find workarounds, if what you say is true.    --Toby   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 22:45:19 +0200 & From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>  Subject: Re: Appletalk on Alphas+ Message-ID: <3e4nn1F179naU1@individual.net>    Christoph Gartmann wrote:   s > In article <ZBSRV8Q$wjS9@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:  > e >>In article <5a4PHSRQQrhg@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:  >>K >>>So far as I can see, nothing surpasses Appletalk for accessing printers.  >>G >>  Let me understand this, are we talking VMS access to Apple printers F >>  or MacOS access to VMS printers?  In the latter case there is LPD,< >>  which the panel for adding printers under MacOS accepts. >>C >>  In the former, I think you need to get OS X in the middle for a < >>  current solution.  Not the best situation, but workable. >  >  > We have the following setup: > 9 >     Mac --->AppleTalk---> VMS --->something---> printer  > I > "something" is no problem. The problem is "AppleTalk". The advantage of K > AppleTalk is that a Mac user may get an automatically updated list of all O > available printers and their capabilities. Of course you may use LPD but then M > you have to configure each printer manually on each Mac (or you tell VMS to  > speak "Rendezvous"). >   J Does CUPS offer any advantage here? From a search for "CUPS" in OS X Help:  D "Note: Shared Mac OS X printers are automatically available to UNIX < users who are using the Common UNIX Printing System (CUPS)."   ------------------------------   Date: 7 May 2005 15:06:59 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)   Subject: Re: Appletalk on Alphas3 Message-ID: <2CPWF++Oehj+@eisner.encompasserve.org>   m In article <1115494589.406893.264590@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, "toby" <toby@telegraphics.com.au> writes:  > Larry Kilgallen wrote:  D >> But can you tell me how to write ISO 9660 onto a magnetic disk on >> MacOS 7.5.5.  > F > I inferred from context that you must have been trying CDs, since itE > seems implausible to me that OS X won't mount HFS partitions from a  > hard disk used with 7.5. > C > How exactly did you confirm this? (Depending on how you made your ( > tests, I may have to try this myself.)  B I installed MacOS X (10.3) and tried to read existing disks on theB machine.  It could not read normal HFS disk, although I presume it: was able to read HFS+ disks, which 7.5.5 does not support.  G > The OS X disk tools such as "hdiutil" through 10.4 support HFS, which D > seems a very fertile place to find workarounds, if what you say is > true.   D Trying 10.3 I found the much ballyhooed "Terminal" program could notC handle the VT100 control characters used in DEC Notes.  Needless to 6 say, I no longer have MacOS X installed on my machine.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 18:00:03 -0400- From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> . Subject: Re: finding the (biggest) bottle neck7 Message-ID: <8660a3a1050507150070cd80fd@mail.gmail.com>   7 On 5/6/05, Jack Patteeuw <jjpatteeuw@nospam.net> wrote:  > denny wrote:" > > the CI  **is** the bottleneck. > > F > > we have DLT80s on PCI bus KZ adapters, ES45s. we got 10 to 1 speed= > > increase in the ES45 backups versus the old, VAX backups.  > > J > > Problem with the CI is it can't feed the DLTs fast enough so they stop' > > streaming. Very bad for throughput.  > > F > > Stay away from Raid5. Use larger disks and Raid 1 if possible.  WeD > > found the tendency is to partition the Raid5 sets down to small,@ > > unusable chunks.  Harder to fall into this trap with Raid 1. > > K > > Also, beware of shadowing overhead. I would use controller-based Raid 1 8 > > before i'd use shadowing on a CI based, VAX cluster. > >  > > FWIW. YMMV.  > >  > > regards,	 > > denny  > > I > Thanks Denny, this is exactly the kind of information I wanted to get !  >=203 > How many DLT80's per SCSI bus ?  KZPBA, correct ?  >=20I > We have been running a number of different small (1-4 GB) data sets and ? > have found some interesting, but not outstanding information.  >=20D > Disks in a RAID5 set on a HSJ50 don't appear to be any slower than* > single disks (all DS-RZ1ED-VW, 10k RPM). >=20L > TZ89 is definitely faster than TZ88.  One test went from 30 min to 20 min= .  >=20F > TZ89 (wide) on an HSJ50 (narrow) is marginally faster than when on aH > KZPSA (wide) SCSI adapter directly connect to the GS140 (8 - EV6/525).D > This PCI was pretty "hot" as we run an LAVC and a fair amount of X. > Windows traffic on the Ethernet on that bus. >=20J > We want to try a KZPBA (wide UltraSCSI) instead of the KZPSA (Wide SCSI) > with the TZ89. >=20  4 What block size are you using for your savesets? =20  L That, and the nature of what you're backing up can often be significant fac= tors.   L At a former place of employment, II used to have some really large RAIDsets= =20 : that contained filesystems that were very UNIXy in nature:  B (billions and billions of little files, all in the same directory, with files constantly  being created or destroyed.)  @ Used to take TZ89s over twelve hours to nail those puppies.  =20   Truly, truly, ugly. =20   0 Bogged down the system (ES40) pretty badly, too.   WWWebb   --=20 C NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  correspondence. C All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 23:40:12 +0200 & From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>8 Subject: Re: HP hostility to alpha holding back itanium?+ Message-ID: <3e4qttF17sjeU1@individual.net>    Bill Todd wrote:   > Main, Kerry wrote: >  > ...  > H >> That same argument has been around since the x86 was first born (what >> was it - 15, 20 years ago?) >  > G > Speaking from ignorance as usual, I see.  The 8086 was introduced in   > 1078,     ^^^^   5 LOL! The work of another Bill (Willam the Conqueror).   D > the 8088 (the slightly hobbled sibling around which IBM built its M > PC) in 1979, and the 80386 (the first 32-bit member of the family) in 1985.  >  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 15:27:05 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> A Subject: RE: Maybe HP should get out of the hardware business.... R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB5ED123@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message----- > From: Barker, Nigel=20 > Sent: May 7, 2005 12:12 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com C > Subject: Re: Maybe HP should get out of the hardware business....  >=204 > On Sat, 7 May 2005 10:42:41 -0400, "John Smith"=20 > <a@nonymous.com> wrote:  >=20H > >And it's an issue with the customer base in that fewer and fewer apps8 > >(commercial or open source) are available for VMS.=20 >=20B > In the case of Open Source quite the contrary is true. Not to=20 > mention Java. ? > There are many more applications available on OpenVMS than=20  > there just five years  > ago. >=20 > --    ? Yep, what I tell Customers - very Java programmer coming out of # University is a OpenVMS programmer.    :-)    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 21:40:54 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> A Subject: Re: Maybe HP should get out of the hardware business.... , Message-ID: <MdKdnU2nlpQ_8uDfRVn-hQ@igs.net>   Main, Kerry wrote: >> -----Original Message-----  >> From: Barker, Nigel >> Sent: May 7, 2005 12:12 PM  >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComD >> Subject: Re: Maybe HP should get out of the hardware business.... >>2 >> On Sat, 7 May 2005 10:42:41 -0400, "John Smith" >> <a@nonymous.com> wrote: >>D >>> And it's an issue with the customer base in that fewer and fewer; >>> apps (commercial or open source) are available for VMS.  >>@ >> In the case of Open Source quite the contrary is true. Not to >> mention Java.= >> There are many more applications available on OpenVMS than  >> there just five years >> ago.  >> >> --  >  > A > Yep, what I tell Customers - very Java programmer coming out of % > University is a OpenVMS programmer.     H Really? I'd ask them what they know about AST's and how they'd use them.       --F OpenVMS - The never advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 23:07:07 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> A Subject: RE: Maybe HP should get out of the hardware business.... R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB5ED127@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message------ > From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]=20  > Sent: May 7, 2005 9:41 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com C > Subject: Re: Maybe HP should get out of the hardware business....  >=20 > Main, Kerry wrote: > >> -----Original Message-----  > >> From: Barker, Nigel > >> Sent: May 7, 2005 12:12 PM  > >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComF > >> Subject: Re: Maybe HP should get out of the hardware business.... > >>4 > >> On Sat, 7 May 2005 10:42:41 -0400, "John Smith" > >> <a@nonymous.com> wrote: > >>F > >>> And it's an issue with the customer base in that fewer and fewer= > >>> apps (commercial or open source) are available for VMS.  > >>B > >> In the case of Open Source quite the contrary is true. Not to > >> mention Java.? > >> There are many more applications available on OpenVMS than  > >> there just five years	 > >> ago.  > >> > >> --  > >  > > C > > Yep, what I tell Customers - very Java programmer coming out of ' > > University is a OpenVMS programmer.  >=20 >=20< > Really? I'd ask them what they know about AST's and how=20 > they'd use them. >=20  B Well, since Java does not take easily take advantage of the nativeG features of any platform system, that might be a tad hard to do... Hey, + who says popular languages have to be good?    :-)   ? [I have always had a hard time understanding supposeably modern F languages like Java requiring "garbage collection" routines that clean; up memory .. And negatively impact system performance as my D understanding is that you have little control over when this garbage  collection routines kick in ...]   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 14:07:20 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>$ Subject: Re: naive hobbyist question+ Message-ID: <427D11E7.E265F8B9@comcast.net>    Bill Pechter wrote:  >  > Tux Wonder-Dog wrote: K > > I've got the license, I've got VMS installed on SIMH VAX, and thanks to 2 > > everybody who helped with advice or equipment. > > P > > The problem is, last year I spent a long time away from my PC and got out ofG > > touch with VMS as in I didn't have any access at all to my hobbyist  > > installation.  > > P > > Now I've updated my license, but since I haven't touched my VMS installationJ > > for quite a while, and the license configuration files on it will have > > lapsed.  > > N > > How do I update them on the installation itself?  Boot up the installationH > > and feed in the license details?  I've never done anything like thisK > > before, I must admit - most of my software hasn't been anywhere near as   > > touchy with license details. > > ) > > Any help will be greatfully received.  > > 
 > > Thanks > >  > > Wesley Parish  > G > Cut and paste from email works in small "bytes" -- I've found I loose   > stuff when pushing it too far.  @ SET TERMINAL/HOSTSYNC usually fixes that if everything is set upH properly for XON/XOF flow control. HOSTSYNC tells the terminal driver toG send XOF when its buffer is nearly full and XON when it can accept more E input. HOSTSYNC is not enabled by default (most typists and typematic H rates can't overwhelm the machine). The terminal (program) should be set" up to honor XON/XOF from the host.  H > d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN.  Don't you wish you could still buy it now!  
 Like that!   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------   Date: 7 May 2005 15:13:46 -0700 ' From: "toby" <toby@telegraphics.com.au> ; Subject: OS X support for HFS, was: Re: Appletalk on Alphas C Message-ID: <1115504026.497393.269900@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Larry Kilgallen wrote:E > In article <1115494589.406893.264590@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, ) "toby" <toby@telegraphics.com.au> writes:  > > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > F > >> But can you tell me how to write ISO 9660 onto a magnetic disk on > >> MacOS 7.5.5.  > > E > > I inferred from context that you must have been trying CDs, since  itG > > seems implausible to me that OS X won't mount HFS partitions from a  > > hard disk used with 7.5. > > E > > How exactly did you confirm this? (Depending on how you made your * > > tests, I may have to try this myself.) > D > I installed MacOS X (10.3) and tried to read existing disks on theD > machine.  It could not read normal HFS disk, although I presume it< > was able to read HFS+ disks, which 7.5.5 does not support.  F What were the symptoms? Did it recognise the device? Could you inspect@ the partition table with Disk Utility? Were you able to run, forE example, a Verify on the partition in question? I'm probably going to 5 make my own tests since you have piqued my curiosity.    > C > > The OS X disk tools such as "hdiutil" through 10.4 support HFS,  which F > > seems a very fertile place to find workarounds, if what you say is	 > > true.  > F > Trying 10.3 I found the much ballyhooed "Terminal" program could notE > handle the VT100 control characters used in DEC Notes.  Needless to 8 > say, I no longer have MacOS X installed on my machine.  E Ballyhooed by whom? As part of the standard install, it's a perfectly B adequate terminal emulator for most users. It would have been moreG helpful had you filed a bug report on it (you would likely reap a fix). G Also, there are many other free and non-free terminal emulators (xterm, G rxvt come to mind) you could have used on OS X to solve that particular  problem.  E Are you saying Terminal's VT100 emulation is incomplete, or buggy? Or E is DEC Notes not in fact using standard VT100? It could be that Apple F was never able to test against DEC Notes, which is why making a usefulF bug report would seem the sensible thing to do. How else do things get$ improved, at Apple or anywhere else?   --T    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 08 May 2005 00:38:24 GMT 9 From: Bob Harris <nospam.News.Bob@remove.Smith-Harris.us> ? Subject: Re: OS X support for HFS, was: Re: Appletalk on Alphas D Message-ID: <nospam.News.Bob-020063.20382407052005@news.verizon.net>  C In article <1115504026.497393.269900@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, )  "toby" <toby@telegraphics.com.au> wrote:    > Larry Kilgallen wrote:G > > In article <1115494589.406893.264590@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, + > "toby" <toby@telegraphics.com.au> writes:  > > > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > > H > > >> But can you tell me how to write ISO 9660 onto a magnetic disk on > > >> MacOS 7.5.5.  > > > G > > > I inferred from context that you must have been trying CDs, since  > itI > > > seems implausible to me that OS X won't mount HFS partitions from a  > > > hard disk used with 7.5. > > > G > > > How exactly did you confirm this? (Depending on how you made your , > > > tests, I may have to try this myself.) > > F > > I installed MacOS X (10.3) and tried to read existing disks on theF > > machine.  It could not read normal HFS disk, although I presume it> > > was able to read HFS+ disks, which 7.5.5 does not support. > H > What were the symptoms? Did it recognise the device? Could you inspectB > the partition table with Disk Utility? Were you able to run, forG > example, a Verify on the partition in question? I'm probably going to 7 > make my own tests since you have piqued my curiosity.  >  > > E > > > The OS X disk tools such as "hdiutil" through 10.4 support HFS,  > which H > > > seems a very fertile place to find workarounds, if what you say is > > > true.  > > H > > Trying 10.3 I found the much ballyhooed "Terminal" program could notG > > handle the VT100 control characters used in DEC Notes.  Needless to : > > say, I no longer have MacOS X installed on my machine. > G > Ballyhooed by whom? As part of the standard install, it's a perfectly D > adequate terminal emulator for most users. It would have been moreI > helpful had you filed a bug report on it (you would likely reap a fix). I > Also, there are many other free and non-free terminal emulators (xterm, I > rxvt come to mind) you could have used on OS X to solve that particular 
 > problem. > G > Are you saying Terminal's VT100 emulation is incomplete, or buggy? Or G > is DEC Notes not in fact using standard VT100? It could be that Apple H > was never able to test against DEC Notes, which is why making a usefulH > bug report would seem the sensible thing to do. How else do things get& > improved, at Apple or anywhere else? >  > --T   E FYI.  When I was working for Digital/Compaq/HP, I was using Mac OS X  B 10.3 Terminal.app constantly to access the internal company notes  conferences.   Terminal in Mac OS X 10.3 well.   G Terminal in 10.1 and 10.2 had issues with the line drawing characters,  ' but 10.3 seemed to have corrected that.   G The only thing I had to in 10.3 was to remap the arrow keys, which was  & an option in the Terminal.app options.  D Another terminal option is iTerm 0.8.1.  The most recent version is  rather good.  2                                         Bob Harris   ------------------------------   Date: 7 May 2005 21:02:43 -0700 ' From: "toby" <toby@telegraphics.com.au> ? Subject: Re: OS X support for HFS, was: Re: Appletalk on Alphas B Message-ID: <1115524963.469753.11590@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:E > In article <1115504026.497393.269900@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, ) "toby" <toby@telegraphics.com.au> writes:  > > Larry Kilgallen wrote: > E > >> Trying 10.3 I found the much ballyhooed "Terminal" program could  not E > >> handle the VT100 control characters used in DEC Notes.  Needless  to; > >> say, I no longer have MacOS X installed on my machine.  > > ? > > Ballyhooed by whom? As part of the standard install, it's a 	 perfectly F > > adequate terminal emulator for most users. It would have been moreE > > helpful had you filed a bug report on it (you would likely reap a  fix).  > > > I did file a bug report through the Apple Developer program. > F > > Are you saying Terminal's VT100 emulation is incomplete, or buggy? > D > I don't understand what difference you conceive between incomplete and  > buggy. >  > > OrC > > is DEC Notes not in fact using standard VT100? It could be that  Apple C > > was never able to test against DEC Notes, which is why making a  usefulF > > bug report would seem the sensible thing to do. How else do things get ( > > improved, at Apple or anywhere else? > C > However the folks who make Reflections do it, since that does not  have > the problem.  D Their implementation no doubt leaped forth fully formed and perfect!G (God forbid if anyone should find and be forced to report an issue with C ballyhooed Reflections! Their karma must be better than Apple's...)   > But seriously, isn't it simple: Either Apple is working from a? different "VT100" spec than DEC Notes; or there is some kind of G implementation error/omission. (Like the HFS problem) You are coy about D the symptoms, so let's hope your detailed bug report finds its mark.   --T    ------------------------------   Date: 7 May 2005 22:49:24 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ? Subject: Re: OS X support for HFS, was: Re: Appletalk on Alphas 3 Message-ID: <wP1nqoKjRUJ3@eisner.encompasserve.org>   m In article <1115504026.497393.269900@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "toby" <toby@telegraphics.com.au> writes:  > Larry Kilgallen wrote:  G >> Trying 10.3 I found the much ballyhooed "Terminal" program could not F >> handle the VT100 control characters used in DEC Notes.  Needless to9 >> say, I no longer have MacOS X installed on my machine.  > G > Ballyhooed by whom? As part of the standard install, it's a perfectly D > adequate terminal emulator for most users. It would have been moreI > helpful had you filed a bug report on it (you would likely reap a fix).   < I did file a bug report through the Apple Developer program.  D > Are you saying Terminal's VT100 emulation is incomplete, or buggy?  F I don't understand what difference you conceive between incomplete and buggy.   > OrG > is DEC Notes not in fact using standard VT100? It could be that Apple H > was never able to test against DEC Notes, which is why making a usefulH > bug report would seem the sensible thing to do. How else do things get& > improved, at Apple or anywhere else?  F However the folks who make Reflections do it, since that does not have the problem.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 17:55:20 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: OT: Google groups, Message-ID: <427D3947.FC4DE6A6@teksavvy.com>  6 Google wrecked the canadian and uk versions this week.  , But I found a version that is still working:  7 http://www.google.com/advanced_group_search?hl=xx-elmer   H Yes, the Elmer Fudd language !  Despote the funny buttons and titles, it works properly.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 21:56:54 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 0 Subject: OT: Only slightly off-shore programming, Message-ID: <T9adnTvLW9V17ODfRVn-1A@igs.net>  ? http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/4/28/170632.shtml   0 Foreign Workers Coming to a Cruise Ship Near You   NewsMax.com Wires  Friday, April 29, 2005  I "Outsourcing" - which has become synonymous with sending American jobs to I India or China - could soon mean foreign workers sleeping in ships just a  few miles off America's coasts.   J In an outrageous affront to U.S. labor laws, a California company plans toG anchor a 600-cabin cruise ship just beyond the three-mile limit off the I coast of El Segundo, near Los Angeles, and stock it with foreign software  programmers.  D The company, SeaCode, will seek to classify the workers as "seamen,"? avoiding U.S. payroll taxes and the need for immigration visas.   J Programmers from places like India and Russia would work 8-hour or 10-hourA shifts, either day or night. Take-home pay: About $21,500 a year.   H Compare that to the salary of an American programmer - median salary forK programmers is around $60,000, and those with extensive experience can make I $125,000 or more - and U.S. companies like SeaCode could reap a windfall.   H SeaCode says it will charge clients the same rate as firms in developingJ countries. The company says the significant benefit of having the low-costJ programmers near the U.S. is that clients will be spared from long flights= to India and other far-off destinations to check on projects.   I By using foreigners working on boats, SeaCode also believes projects will K get done more quickly as their programmers toil both day and night. "Try to K get American software engineers to work at night," SeaCode co-founder David L Cook told Forbes magazine, explaining his delight in the outsourcing scheme.  J But Jack Martin, special projects director for the Federation for American@ Immigration Reform, complained: "All it would do is be a furtherL contribution to eroding the job opportunities for skilled American workers."  H SeaCode is close to making an offer for the Carousel, a ship now sailingK around the Canary Islands. The vessel would dock in Long Beach once a month G to take on supplies and dispose of waste - isn't that nice? But legally 4 speaking, the SeaCode scheme could face stormy seas.  L "It's not my prerogative to tell them to take a hike," said El Segundo Mayor5 Kelly McDowell. "I'll leave that to the Coast Guard."        --L OpenVMS - The never advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 22:40:22 -0400 ' From: Marc Belanger <bru1n@comcast.net> 4 Subject: Re: OT: Only slightly off-shore programming0 Message-ID: <NemdnSo01YaF4eDfRVn-vA@comcast.com>   John Smith wrote: A > http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/4/28/170632.shtml  >   H I highly doubt 600 (cabins max) 3 mile programmers would make a dent in G "real jobs" lost. When they get a fleet of 30 or 40 of these things, I   might have some interest.    -Marc    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 18:37:30 -0400# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> T Subject: Re: Time to vote on your favorite slogan for the next OpenVMS License plate, Message-ID: <Or-dnT72qZ2x3uDfRVn-2w@igs.net>  " susan_skonetski@hotmail.com wrote: > Dear Newsgroup > C > Time to vote on your favorite slogan for the next OpenVMS License  > plate. > G > Please visit:  www.openvms.org on the left nav bar the poll is there.  > D > The license plate will have a large OpenVMS in the middle with the, > slogan underneath.  Please vote only once. > E > This poll will only be up on the web site until next Friday May 13.  >  > Warm Regards,  > Sue     ) VMS: When wimp operating systems won't do    --F OpenVMS - The never advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 08 May 2005 00:05:19 +0200 & From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>Y Subject: Re: Time to vote on your favorite slogan for the next OpenVMS License plate plat + Message-ID: <3e4sd1F18cdeU1@individual.net>    Richard Maher wrote:   > Hi,  > 6 > Along those lines, I like the beer add in the UK : - > + > "Stella Artois - Reassuringly expensive."  > K > And sales actually went up! Just goes to show, we're all a bunch of mugs.  > H After Eight mints were apparently a flop until they upped the price and C advertised them with a campaign involving up market dinner parties.   # Perception of prestige _does_ sell.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 23:28:23 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> Y Subject: Re: Time to vote on your favorite slogan for the next OpenVMS Licenseplate Licen , Message-ID: <427D8756.ADAC30A3@teksavvy.com>   Paul Sture wrote: I > After Eight mints were apparently a flop until they upped the price and E > advertised them with a campaign involving up market dinner parties.  > % > Perception of prestige _does_ sell.   & Consumer products != business products  H This image advertising gets a company to send an RFP to a vendor becauseH it is interested in its product. But the CTO/CIO and CFOs then decide onG which solution is the best/cheapest. And being expensive just for image = is no longer justifiable in a highly competitive environment.   F The lack of adverising and image for VMS results in VMS not even being@ considered by potential customers, so there aren't even any RFPsC (especially since the owner of VMS prefers to pitch other products)    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 11:58:40 -0600 " From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>  Subject: Re: VAXstation 4000 vlc( Message-ID: <427D01D0.4A2959E8@mist.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > GreyCloud wrote:= > > I've selected console, but unfortunately nothing appears. @ > > I've even tried pushing the reset button on the side with no: > > luck.  Hoping for one more next step, otherwise, maybe? > > somebody knows of a vax4000/60 for sale that has memory and & > > hard drive along with the OpenVMS. > H > Do you have a modem signal tester ? You shoudl plug on into the serialE > port to see if anything is comint out of it. And if not, try on the F > other  serial port, and if not, then try both again with the console) > selection switch in the other position.   ; I don't have a tester, but I did try what you've suggested.  And no luck there.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 12:00:48 -0600 " From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>  Subject: Re: VAXstation 4000 vlc( Message-ID: <427D0250.D3114AD8@mist.com>   Dave Froble wrote: >  > GreyCloud wrote:< > > I finally got the terminal (vt420) hooked up to the vlc.9 > > Nothing shows but the cursor when turning on the vlc. 8 > > The back 8 leds indicate that it is in console mode.? > > I suppose I can safely assume that this machine is a goner.  > > (??) > J > Well,  I'd first ask whether the VT-420 works?  Is it set for 9600 baud? >   8 Yes, the VT-420 was a spare that was never used.  It was shipped in its original box., The terminal is set to 9600 baud by default.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 07 May 2005 12:04:12 -0600 " From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>  Subject: Re: VAXstation 4000 vlc( Message-ID: <427D031C.26A7E6C5@mist.com>   David J Dachtera wrote:l >  > GreyCloud wrote: > > < > > I finally got the terminal (vt420) hooked up to the vlc.9 > > Nothing shows but the cursor when turning on the vlc. 8 > > The back 8 leds indicate that it is in console mode.? > > I suppose I can safely assume that this machine is a goner.s > > (??) >   > Sorry - dumb questions time... > J > Did you use the correct MMJ jacks on the VT420? (one s/b COMM, other s/b% > printer or COMM - select in SETUP).S > E > Have you tried checking the MMJ cable? A Simple VOM should suffice.k  < I was considering doing that, but since Dave sent me two new cables I've tried them both.   > F > Try a DB25F - DB9F null modem cable between the VLC and your PC with0 > whatever terminal program you can get hold of.  " I've done that one too... no luck.   > Use 9600, 8-none-1. IeI > believe you should at least get SOMEthing when you power up the VLC ande > it runs its POST.  > J > Do you have an R-G-B monitor and an LK201 or LK401 keyboard that you can > try? >   4 I don't have an adapter that does BNC to 15 pin VGA.! But I do have the LK401 keyboard.0  J > Also, try: leave the VLC powered up overnight, then try power-cycling itF > the next day to see if anything different happens (I'm guessing dead > mobo battery).  6 That's my guess as well.  The ToY clock module has the7 battery inside of it, so finding a new module will be a  feat.r6 But I will leave the machine on for a day and see what happens.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 7 May 2005 17:49:01 -0400- From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com>e  Subject: Re: VAXstation 4000 vlc7 Message-ID: <8660a3a105050714491ca4f27d@mail.gmail.com>F  . On 5/7/05, GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com> wrote: > David J Dachtera wrote:  > >o > > GreyCloud wrote: > > >i> > > > I finally got the terminal (vt420) hooked up to the vlc.; > > > Nothing shows but the cursor when turning on the vlc.c: > > > The back 8 leds indicate that it is in console mode.A > > > I suppose I can safely assume that this machine is a goner.g
 > > > (??) > >n" > > Sorry - dumb questions time... > >cL > > Did you use the correct MMJ jacks on the VT420? (one s/b COMM, other s/= br' > > printer or COMM - select in SETUP).2 > >1G > > Have you tried checking the MMJ cable? A Simple VOM should suffice.  >=20> > I was considering doing that, but since Dave sent me two new > cables I've tried them both. >=20 > > H > > Try a DB25F - DB9F null modem cable between the VLC and your PC with2 > > whatever terminal program you can get hold of. >=20$ > I've done that one too... no luck. >=20 > > Use 9600, 8-none-1. ImK > > believe you should at least get SOMEthing when you power up the VLC ande > > it runs its POST.  > >eL > > Do you have an R-G-B monitor and an LK201 or LK401 keyboard that you ca= nd > > try? > >o >=206 > I don't have an adapter that does BNC to 15 pin VGA.# > But I do have the LK401 keyboard.e >=20L > > Also, try: leave the VLC powered up overnight, then try power-cycling i= t H > > the next day to see if anything different happens (I'm guessing dead > > mobo battery). >=208 > That's my guess as well.  The ToY clock module has the9 > battery inside of it, so finding a new module will be ao > feat.   ? If it's one of those chunky Dallas Semiconductor clock modules,w9 I believe that they are still commercially available. =20r  L If you really get stuck, drop me a line and I might be able to help you out= .e   WWWebb  8 > But I will leave the machine on for a day and see what
 > happens. >=20     --=20SC NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-relateds correspondence.eC All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request forr8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/g   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.255 ************************