1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 10 May 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 260       Contents:' Accessing Oracle 9i via C, C++, Fortran + Re: Apache 2.0 - some kind of open relay ??  BLISS macro puzzle Re: BLISS macro puzzle' Calling DCL procedure from Apache 1.3-1 4 Re: Can OpenVMS use Active Directory instead of UAF?, Re: Can VMS have a timed lockout of accounts Re: Clusterwide QUEMGR file  RE: Compiler bug check RE: Compiler bug check Re: Could a PC do this?  Re: Could a PC do this?  Re: Could a PC do this?  Re: Could a PC do this?  Re: Could a PC do this?  Re: DECUS Fall Symposium 1968  Re: DECUS Fall Symposium 1968 ; EDT keypad on emacs, was: Re: SEDT / JED EDT compatibility? D RE: Lexical function to set environmental variables of  AlphaStationC RE: Lexical function to set environmental variables of AlphaStation C Re: Lexical function to set environmental variables of AlphaStation C RE: Lexical function to set environmental variables of AlphaStation 8 Re: License facility improvement request (expiring ones)8 Re: License facility improvement request (expiring ones)8 Re: License facility improvement request (expiring ones)8 Re: License facility improvement request (expiring ones) More DS10 systems in stock8 Re: new question on (Cyrillic) fonts with Mozilla on VMS8 Re: new question on (Cyrillic) fonts with Mozilla on VMS8 Re: new question on (Cyrillic) fonts with Mozilla on VMS Re: OpenVMS and Mac OS X 10.4  Re: OpenVMS and Mac OS X 10.4 5 Re: Powerstorm graphics w/ VMS -- and OpenGL, anyone? ! Re: SEDT / JED EDT compatibility? ! Re: SEDT / JED EDT compatibility? ! Re: SEDT / JED EDT compatibility? ! Re: SEDT / JED EDT compatibility? ! Re: SEDT / JED EDT compatibility? ! Re: SEDT / JED EDT compatibility? ! Re: SEDT / JED EDT compatibility? ! Re: SEDT / JED EDT compatibility?   UUCP or SMTP-AUTH on OpenVMS/AXP$ Re: UUCP or SMTP-AUTH on OpenVMS/AXP$ Re: UUCP or SMTP-AUTH on OpenVMS/AXP VAXen need PWDMIX   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 15:52:58 +0100 = From: "Andoni" <no_spam_please@andoni-at-ireland-dot-com.com> 0 Subject: Accessing Oracle 9i via C, C++, Fortran2 Message-ID: <_U3ge.52950$Z14.43836@news.indigo.ie>  
 Hello All,  J I am trying to find some sample code for accessing an Oracle Database in CD or Fortran from OpenVMS. I have found that this should be done usingH Oracle's Pro*C Pro*Fortran libraries but the Oracle documentation is all very advanced.  H Would anybody out there have a basic Oracle accessing program written inL something other than Java? If I get something like this working I would have a great starting point.    Thanks in advance,   Andoni.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 13:10:55 +0100 0 From: Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam>4 Subject: Re: Apache 2.0 - some kind of open relay ??4 Message-ID: <d5q8cf$sl7$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>   Steven M. Schweda wrote: >>Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> writes in article <d5nnkg$r5b$1$830fa7a5@news.demon.co.uk> dated Mon, 09 May 2005 14:12:48 +0100: >> >>>Got the following in my log >> >>[...]  >>7 >>>220.170.88.36 - - [01/May/2005:03:26:44 +0100] "GET  + >>>http://www.yahoo.com/ HTTP/1.1" 200 1456  >> >>[...]  >>K >>>This is an external facing, but unused, unpublished, Apache server on a  K >>>non-default port, Alpha VMS 7.3-1, Apache 2.0, PHP 4.3.2, mysql. When I  7 >>>try to construct a url like that from a browser (eg  L >>>"http://myserver/http://www.yahoo.com/", I get a leading '/' in the log,   >>>and a 404 error, as expected. > C >    A direct request for the foreign page gets a "400 Bad Request" @ > response, while a proxy request gets the 200 success response. > = >    The successes in my log were also for requests like "GET I > http://www.yahoo.com/ HTTP/1.1", "GET http://google.com/ HTTP/1.0", and H > so on, and, interestingly, all had a transfer size of 965 bytes, whichG > sounded much too small for the Yahoo main page (and unlikely even for E > Google's).  Trying the suggestion from Mr. Lewis (setting the proxy D > server in my browser), I found that any of these requests actuallyI > returned my _own_ main page (which is considerably simpler than Yahoo's  > or Google's).   I Yes - mine's the same - presumably Apache just throws away the domain as  H a historical kindness to some buggy browser, and handles the local path # - 1456 is the size of my main page.    No problem after all - phew.   Thanks Chris    ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2005 10:00:42 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: BLISS macro puzzle 3 Message-ID: <mjwkpZZWh5ss@eisner.encompasserve.org>   H    In the following extract from a BLISS macro, where "value" is a macroJ    argument, is there any way to both protect against a value of the form H    .X containing 0 and a value of the form X generating unreachable codeJ    (because X is never at address 0)?  In general X is neither a CTCE nor     an LTCE.   J    (_deblist is an $ITMLST, length is another macro argument, and _null is     an %ascid).       E       ! if value is a variable then this will cause %BLS32-I-UNREACH, D       ! but if value is indirect it can contain 0 which would cause        ! %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO           if value neqa 0 then(          $ITMLST_INIT(itmlst = _deblist,C             (ITMCOD = LNM$_STRING, BUFADR = value, BUFSIZ = length) 
          )
       else(          $ITMLST_INIT(itmlst = _deblist,B             (ITMCOD = LNM$_STRING, BUFADR = ._null[dsc$a_pointer],+              BUFSIZ = ._null[dsc$w_length]) 
          )       ;    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 17:12:53 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> Subject: Re: BLISS macro puzzle 2 Message-ID: <pY5ge.5162$DN5.1363@news.cpqcorp.net>   Bob Koehler wrote:J >    In the following extract from a BLISS macro, where "value" is a macroL >    argument, is there any way to both protect against a value of the form J >    .X containing 0 and a value of the form X generating unreachable codeL >    (because X is never at address 0)?  In general X is neither a CTCE nor 
 >    an LTCE.  > L >    (_deblist is an $ITMLST, length is another macro argument, and _null is >     an %ascid).  >  >  > G >       ! if value is a variable then this will cause %BLS32-I-UNREACH, F >       ! but if value is indirect it can contain 0 which would cause  >       ! %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO   >  >       if value neqa 0 then* >          $ITMLST_INIT(itmlst = _deblist,E >             (ITMCOD = LNM$_STRING, BUFADR = value, BUFSIZ = length)  >          ) >       else* >          $ITMLST_INIT(itmlst = _deblist,D >             (ITMCOD = LNM$_STRING, BUFADR = ._null[dsc$a_pointer],- >              BUFSIZ = ._null[dsc$w_length])  >          )	 >       ;  >    I'm not sure I follow.  " You want your macro to accept both   m(VALUE = X)   and   
 m(VALUE = .X)    ???   G  From a purely syntatic point of view, I don't think you can distinush   between    LOCAL X;   m(VALUE = X)   and    BIND      X = .Y;   m(VALUE = X)       --   John Reagan / HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2005 07:16:54 -0700 From: mb301@hotmail.com 0 Subject: Calling DCL procedure from Apache 1.3-1C Message-ID: <1115734614.572047.253950@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   G Does anyone have example cgi-bin DCL procedure they could post on here. G I basicaly want to pass a couple of parameters to another DCL procedure  via Apache.   0 http://servername/cgi-bin/test.cgi?p1=123&p2=abc  E The following symbol is set APACHE$DCL_CMD but it doesn't contain the ) parameters, just the name name of script.    @dir:[fred]do_stuff 'p1' 'p2'      PS: $ and I don't want to buy this book...U http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1555581919/102-6845318-2721749?v=glance    ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2005 07:25:19 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) = Subject: Re: Can OpenVMS use Active Directory instead of UAF? 3 Message-ID: <fak9a56qzcgO@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ^ In article <1115682086.401206.43600@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, bob@instantwhip.com writes:C > spoofing!  You are forgetting that proxy account may be a captive 6 > account or any other kind of box I put you in ... :)  G    By spoofing I can get into that account even though I'm not supposed B    to, and do whatever the legitimate user of that account can do.      Which is a secutiry concern.    ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2005 07:26:44 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 5 Subject: Re: Can VMS have a timed lockout of accounts 3 Message-ID: <rRYD4aqSFgLm@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <427FDCF1.90B05F16@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > G > This is dangerous and can lead to total denial of service requiring a E > reboot of all yor provileged usersnames are disusered and you can't 2 > reset anything to regain access to your machine.  F    You do have access to the console, don't you?  You can still get in;    to SYSTEM from the console, and then fix everybody else.    ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2005 09:50:47 -0700 From: peut@peut.org $ Subject: Re: Clusterwide QUEMGR fileC Message-ID: <1115743846.941591.297100@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>   E Also, the queuemanager will look first in sys$system: for the various A queuemanager database files, even if you have defined logicals to 1 point to your new clusterwide queuemanager files. @ Make sure the files in sys$system are renamed to something else.   Jose       Meat Loaf wrote: > Dan O'Reilly wrote:  > D > > I have a clusterwide queue manager file.  When I reboot the hostF > > machine upon which the qmgr file resides, it loses all informationB > > about the queues defined in it, forcing me to redefine all the0 > > queues.  This is a 7.3 system on a PWS600au. > >  > > Any ideas, anybody?  > > 
 > > ------ > > F +-------------------------------+------------------------------------- > > ---+E > > >  Dan O'Reilly                  |  "There are 10 types of people  in@ > > > this |  Principal Engineer            |   world: those whoB > > > understand binary   |  Process Software              |   and those C > > > who don't."                |  http://www.process.com        |  > > > |  > > F +-------------------------------+------------------------------------- > > ---+ > B > Also make sure you aren't performing a "Start/Queue_Manager/New" which ? > does in fact create a new queue file that has no definitions.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 18:28:16 +1000 6 From: "O'Brien Paddy" <Paddy.O'Brien@transgrid.com.au> Subject: RE: Compiler bug check X Message-ID: <8BAD914A0B8CA84C9E94187103A1AB9E05BE19@EX-TG2-PR.corporate.transgrid.local>  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5553A.36C98BA1 . Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable          -----Original Message-----1 From: Paul Dembry [mailto:pade@nospam.trifox.com]  Sent: Tue 4/19/2005 6:51 AM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  Subject: Re: Compiler bug check  =20 H >    I've seen lots of layered products behave this way when running out >    of PGFLQUOTA.K I doubled the pgflquota, no luck. It even dumps when I specify /noobject. I  am using dec c v 5.2-003.  Thanks,  Paul      I I am jumping in on an old thread as I have been on leave for seven weeks.   . The latest C compiler that I have is V6.5-001.  L Compiler bugchecks usually quote the last line as being the troublesome one.  L Any compiler bugchecks should be immediately sent to either your local supp=L ort or to Ed Vogel (for C), if you have this sort of contact.  Compiler wri=9 ters love these, as they keep them gainfully employed :-)   L In my experience with the Fortran compiler, pgflquota is not the problem.  =I It's the same sort of bug we have in our programs for our users -- A BUG.    Regards, Paddy    G ***********************************************************************   C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged @ and confidential information intended only for the use of the=20D addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of=20C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise D the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,=207 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.   C If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid=20 C immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the=20 ? individual sender except where the sender expressly and with=20 C authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses > virus-scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************     ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5553A.36C98BA1 - Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   1 <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">  <HTML> <HEAD>L <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-= 1"> K <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version 6.5.7226.0"> % <TITLE>RE: Compiler bug check</TITLE>  </HEAD>  <BODY>) <!-- Converted from text/plain format -->  <BR> <BR> <BR>  0 <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR>L From: Paul Dembry [<A HREF=3D"mailto:pade@nospam.trifox.com">mailto:pade@no= spam.trifox.com</A>]<BR> Sent: Tue 4/19/2005 6:51 AM<BR>  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com<BR> # Subject: Re: Compiler bug check<BR>  <BR>L &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I've seen lots of layered products behave this way w= hen running out<BR> ( &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; of PGFLQUOTA.<BR>L I doubled the pgflquota, no luck. It even dumps when I specify /noobject. I= <BR> am using dec c v 5.2-003.<BR>  Thanks,<BR>  Paul<BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>L I am jumping in on an old thread as I have been on leave for seven weeks.<B= R> <BR>2 The latest C compiler that I have is V6.5-001.<BR> <BR>L Compiler bugchecks usually quote the last line as being the troublesome one= <BR> <BR>L Any compiler bugchecks should be immediately sent to either your local supp=L ort or to Ed Vogel (for C), if you have this sort of contact.&nbsp; Compile=B r writers love these, as they keep them gainfully employed :-)<BR> <BR>L In my experience with the Fortran compiler, pgflquota is not the problem.&n=L bsp; It's the same sort of bug we have in our programs for our users -- A B= UG.<BR>  <BR> Regards, Paddy<BR> </FONT>  </P>   <FONT SIZE=3D3><BR>  <BR>K ***********************************************************************<BR>  <BR>G "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged<BR> B and confidential information intended only for the use of the <BR>F addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of <BR>G this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise<BR> F the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, <BR>; distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.<BR>  <BR>E If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid <BR> E immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the <BR> A individual sender except where the sender expressly and with <BR> G authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses<BR> B virus-scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses<BR>  contained in any attachment.<BR> <BR>@ Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now<BR>( firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"<BR> <BR>K ***********************************************************************<BR>  </FONT>  </BODY>  </HTML> ) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5553A.36C98BA1--    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 18:49:35 +1000 6 From: "O'Brien Paddy" <Paddy.O'Brien@transgrid.com.au> Subject: RE: Compiler bug check X Message-ID: <8BAD914A0B8CA84C9E94187103A1AB9E05BE1A@EX-TG2-PR.corporate.transgrid.local>  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5553D.315A1AB1 . Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable          -----Original Message-----* From: Hoff Hoffman [mailto:hoff@hp.nospam] Sent: Tue 4/19/2005 7:33 AM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  Subject: Re: Compiler bug check  =20 L In article <bdqdndirJeDugPnfRVn-3Q@megapath.net>, "Paul Dembry" <pade@nospa= m.trifox.com> writes: I :>    I've seen lots of layered products behave this way when running out  :>    of PGFLQUOTA. L :I doubled the pgflquota, no luck. It even dumps when I specify /noobject. I :am using dec c v 5.2-003.  J   V5.2 dates back to 1995, and various errors have been identified in thatJ   version, and resolved.  I'd suggest an upgrade to a more recent version,.   both for the fixes and for the enhancements.   Definitely.=20  L   As of this writing, V6.4 is the current compiler for OpenVMS VAX, V6.5 for1   OpenVMS Alpha, and (IIRC) V7.1 for OpenVMS I64.   J   If this is not the process quotas -- and I'd not immediately assume a=20K   compiler bugcheck error was due to insufficient quotas -- then I'd expect I   the problem is in the processing of the source code itself.  Obviously. J   This means that shuffling the source code around or changing it might=20H   help, if you can identify the particular construct involved -- but theG   compiler upgrade is probably the best approach, as would be expected.   L Just to qualify the phraseology, I have never experienced a "bugchecK".  Th=0 is to me usually means bringing the system down.  L The best way that I have explained to the compiler guys (male/female :-) is=L  to provide code that worked (even on an earlier version of the compiler) a=L nd any change in code that I had done to use enhancements of the latest com=L piler.  I have sometimes found that the newer compiler enhancements created=L  problems that the older compiler did not. When I have beta tested, I alway=L s maintain the earlier compiler on a seperate node, so I can still "claim" =L that the previous compiler worked.  I know that the Fortran guys could go b= ackwards in compilers too.  D   If folks are to pursue this, details of the source code and of the(   compiler bugcheck will be of interest.  L Yes, as mentioned above, all our source code is required.  The compiler bug=L check is usually not relevant as it goes little information to the user.  T=E he compiler guys will get their extra info from compiling our source.    Regards, Paddy  L  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> --------------------------= --- K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq L  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ------------------------= --- E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com         G ***********************************************************************   C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged @ and confidential information intended only for the use of the=20D addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of=20C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise D the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,=207 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.   C If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid=20 C immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the=20 ? individual sender except where the sender expressly and with=20 C authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses > virus-scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************     ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5553D.315A1AB1 - Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   1 <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">  <HTML> <HEAD>L <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-= 1"> K <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version 6.5.7226.0"> % <TITLE>RE: Compiler bug check</TITLE>  </HEAD>  <BODY>) <!-- Converted from text/plain format -->  <BR> <BR> <BR>  0 <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR>L From: Hoff Hoffman [<A HREF=3D"mailto:hoff@hp.nospam">mailto:hoff@hp.nospam=	 </A>]<BR>  Sent: Tue 4/19/2005 7:33 AM<BR>  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com<BR> # Subject: Re: Compiler bug check<BR>  <BR>L In article &lt;bdqdndirJeDugPnfRVn-3Q@megapath.net&gt;, &quot;Paul Dembry&q=/ uot; &lt;pade@nospam.trifox.com&gt; writes:<BR> L :&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I've seen lots of layered products behave this way = when running out<BR>) :&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; of PGFLQUOTA.<BR> L :I doubled the pgflquota, no luck. It even dumps when I specify /noobject. = I<BR>  :am using dec c v 5.2-003.<BR> <BR>L &nbsp; V5.2 dates back to 1995, and various errors have been identified in = that<BR>L &nbsp; version, and resolved.&nbsp; I'd suggest an upgrade to a more recent=
  version,<BR> 7 &nbsp; both for the fixes and for the enhancements.<BR>  <BR> Definitely.<BR>  <BR>L &nbsp; As of this writing, V6.4 is the current compiler for OpenVMS VAX, V6=	 5 for<BR> : &nbsp; OpenVMS Alpha, and (IIRC) V7.1 for OpenVMS I64.<BR> <BR>L &nbsp; If this is not the process quotas -- and I'd not immediately assume = a<BR> L &nbsp; compiler bugcheck error was due to insufficient quotas -- then I'd e=	 xpect<BR> L &nbsp; the problem is in the processing of the source code itself.&nbsp; Ob= viously.<BR>L &nbsp; This means that shuffling the source code around or changing it migh= t<BR> L &nbsp; help, if you can identify the particular construct involved -- but t= he<BR>L &nbsp; compiler upgrade is probably the best approach, as would be expected= <BR> <BR>L Just to qualify the phraseology, I have never experienced a &quot;bugchecK&=C quot;.&nbsp; This to me usually means bringing the system down.<BR>  <BR>L The best way that I have explained to the compiler guys (male/female :-) is=L  to provide code that worked (even on an earlier version of the compiler) a=L nd any change in code that I had done to use enhancements of the latest com=L piler.&nbsp; I have sometimes found that the newer compiler enhancements cr=L eated problems that the older compiler did not. When I have beta tested, I =L always maintain the earlier compiler on a seperate node, so I can still &qu=L ot;claim&quot; that the previous compiler worked.&nbsp; I know that the For=2 tran guys could go backwards in compilers too.<BR> <BR>L &nbsp; If folks are to pursue this, details of the source code and of the<B= R>1 &nbsp; compiler bugcheck will be of interest.<BR>  <BR>L Yes, as mentioned above, all our source code is required.&nbsp; The compile=L r bugcheck is usually not relevant as it goes little information to the use=L r.&nbsp; The compiler guys will get their extra info from compiling our sou= rce.<BR> <BR> Regards, Paddy<BR> <BR>L &nbsp;---------------------------- #include &lt;rtfaq.h&gt; ---------------= --------------<BR>L &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com= /go/openvms/faq<BR> L &nbsp;--------------------------- pure personal opinion -------------------= --------<BR>L &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman&nbsp;&nbs=5 p; OpenVMS Engineering&nbsp;&nbsp; hoff[at]hp.com<BR>  <BR> <BR> </FONT>  </P>   <FONT SIZE=3D3><BR>  <BR>K ***********************************************************************<BR>  <BR>G "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged<BR> B and confidential information intended only for the use of the <BR>F addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of <BR>G this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise<BR> F the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, <BR>; distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.<BR>  <BR>E If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid <BR> E immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the <BR> A individual sender except where the sender expressly and with <BR> G authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses<BR> B virus-scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses<BR>  contained in any attachment.<BR> <BR>@ Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now<BR>( firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"<BR> <BR>K ***********************************************************************<BR>  </FONT>  </BODY>  </HTML> ) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5553D.315A1AB1--    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 03:18:37 -0700 - From: Jake Hamby <jhamby IS AT pobox DOT com>   Subject: Re: Could a PC do this?8 Message-ID: <phu081l0g0e9us54kf9t8glq4uro1a1lck@4ax.com>  , On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 16:53:40 -0400, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:   8 >There are credible roadmaps and less credible roadmaps. > G >IBM's Power roadmaps are very credible because IBM is betting a lot on E >Power and Power has leadership role and good adoption rate and Apple ' >(and a few others) also rely on Power.  > C >IBM's AS400 (Iseries I think) is perhaps less credible as is AIXs.  > : >One learns to "read" those roadmaps with a grain of salt.  B PowerPC (excluding its use in embedded applications) is being keptA alive almost entirely by Apple and always has been.  AS/400 is an B intriguing platform but it's just too weird for the average ISV toA consider porting their apps too.  VMS is weird also, but the UNIX D compatibility is good enough and getting better, and in terms of theA functionality that the OS provides, OpenVMS is easy to explain in F terms of UNIX and Windows ("the same, only more secure"), while AS/400C is this weird 128-bit super-virtual-machine object database OS that ? you even have to log into with some weird IBM terminal emulator C instead of ordinary VT100 terminal emulation like UNIX and VMS use.   D Where I think the PowerPC history makes an interesting comparison toB Alpha and/or Itanium is that originally, PowerPC was promised withD much hype to be the killer RISC chip of the 1990's that was going toC run Windows NT and Solaris and AIX and MacOS (but you had to have a F PowerPC system with the special Mac ROM chip, thus negating the commonC h/w platform in favor of Apple h/w lock-in) and OS/2 and even BeOS. E Well, all of those OS's were ported to the PowerPC and in the case of E NT and Solaris, exactly one version (IIRC) was released and then both D were immediately abandoned.  The OS/2 port was too ambitious to everC see the light of day and BeOS failed to survive a transition to x86 F once they abandoned the BeBox and were passed over as the next Mac OS.  E In other words, everyone except for Apple and IBM got totally screwed C on PowerPC, of the companies originally hyping PPC support in their F roadmaps of the time.  But that's not to say that PowerPC is a failureC as an architecture -- it's a great architecture but it's absolutely  not an "industry standard".   E Itanium seems like it's being pre-sold as "industry standard" in much B the same way as PowerPC was -- "we hope to sell a lot of units andC then it becomes a de facto standard like x86 and Intel sells a high C volume of chips to all the different systems builders."  This isn't F going to happen:  x86-64 is going to be the standard in the short termC because it's will understood and customers will continue to benefit + from the competition between Intel and AMD.   C But OpenVMS and Itanium can still be a success in the smaller sense D that PowerPC is:  a nice chip on the high-end that can scale down toC small servers like the rx1620.  Dell and HP and IBM and a few other B vendors will build IA64 systems and RedHat will support it, and ifE you're shelling out the cash for an OpenVMS license, you're not going B to care about the marginal difference in price/performance between x86-64 and Itanium.   E Where is gets more interesting is the question of whether or not EPIC D is actually a fundamental improvement over RISC.  I read a bit aboutE this in the book "Itanium Rising: Breaking Through Moore's Second Law D of Computing Power", which is admittedly HP published propaganda butA was still worth adding to my Safari bookshelf for a month to skim A through.  Essentially the point made in that book is that Moore's C Second Law is catching up to all the CPU makers and EPIC will allow " them to bypass some of its effect.  F Moore's Second Law is that processor speed can only increase accordingB to Moore's First Law (doubling every 18 months) when manufacturingF plants to build these high-tech CPU's double in cost every generation.E Soon only Intel and a few others (IBM? Fujitsu? AMD?) will be able to A afford the cost of building fabs that can manufacture the fastest  CPUs.   C So what does Itanium have that x86 doesn't?  It has the "EPIC" idea D that allows the compiler to figure out the "out-of-order" executionsC paths that allow up to 6 instructions to be processed at a time, in B parallel execution units, while today's superscalar RISC chips canD only do three or four instructions at a time at most.  Apparently itB takes a prohibitive number of transistors to make a "non-EPIC" CPUE that can handle out-of-order execution of more then 4 instructions at A a time.  By offloading that work into the compiler, it takes zero F transistors to reorder the instructions and the CPU can devote more of> its transistors to actually running code instead of reorderingB instructions on the fly in order to keep the execution units busy.  F Beyond that, there's a more practical reason I can think of to supportB VMS (and HP's UNIX customers) on Itanium but not x86-64.  x86 is a= terrible architecture!  Absolutely horribly designed, too few @ registers, and it never lets you forget that it's essentially anD overgrown 8086.  Linux runs on x86 because Linux is "for the masses"5 and that's what most hackers have, or have access to.   A In terms of difficulty of porting, Linux is written in C and some E assembly language, so a port to x86-64 (especially given the existing E x86 port!) was not nearly as daunting as porting VMS would have been, ? an OS whose kernel is largely written in VAX assembly language! C Fortunately, VAX was a CISC architecture so DEC was able to write a D MACRO "compiler" that generated Alpha instructions from the originalF VAX/VMS code and the OS could be ported.  Every VAX register mapped toC an Alpha register, and the same thing is true for IA64.  x86 simply F doesn't have enough registers to do that.  x86-64 has 8 more registers; for a grand total of 16 which is probably still not enough.   H >Simimarly, if you look only at one product's roadmap, it may look neat,D >but you also have to look at it on a corporate level. AIX's productE >roadmap loses some credibility when you look at IBM's commitments to E >Linux. (same for HP-UX and Linux). Solaris's roadmap is more cedible 8 >because Sun isn't betting its business on any other OS.  F Solaris's roadmap is less credible since they are making as much noiseC about Linux as they are about Solaris these days.  When the biggest @ news you can make about your OS is that you're in the process ofC open-sourcing it, there is a bit of desperation about that move and E not a lot of excitement about what the OS can actually do better than  Linux.  F >When you take a more global picture, the IA64 roadmap is not credibleE >beyond 2007. And so far, nothing has been said/done to alleviate the A >rumour that IA64 will be replacved by the 8086 in the enterprise E >products. Intel has sent plenty of fairly clear messages that IA64's ? >niche market growing narrower and narrower.  It may have great P >technological plans, but the business case makes those plans not very relevant. > G >It is logical for Intel to focus on one architecture. It isn't logical H >and it isn't good business for Intel to have 2 competing architectures,F >especially when the low volume one costs a lot more to develop due toM >its bloatedness and very specific compilers required to achieve performance.2  C It is logical if the high volume architecture is so poorly designedaB that it won't be possible to scale up to the levels of performanceD that could ultimately be achieved by Itanium and EPIC.  If x86-64 isE twice the clock speed of Itanium then Itanium will have to be able tot@ retire twice as many instructions per clock cycle in order to beD competitive.  If Itanium can catch up to Xeon and Opteron in the GHzC race then any significant advantage of EPIC in terms of superscalar C execution would push performance significantly ahead of what x86-64 9 could achieve with hardware-based instruction reordering.J  D RAM is cheap and I'd bet on compiler technology to improve both withB the Intel compilers and even with GCC by 2007 so that the questionD (for customers) will be purely price-performance based.  For OpenVMSE or HP-UX or Tru64 customers migrating to Itanium, raw performance andbA the overall quality and reliability of the hardware and OS (thinkiD clustering and fault tolerance) are certainly more important factors than pure price-performance.   Cheers,(
 Jake Hamby   ------------------------------   Date: 10 May 2005 13:47:37 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)  Subject: Re: Could a PC do this?+ Message-ID: <3ebsbpF29e26U1@individual.net>   0 In article <1181einr2dk7781@corp.supernews.com>,* 	Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: > Jake Hamby wrote:  >  >>  VMS is weird also, > 3 > Well, there went any credibility with some folks./ >    Mother Duck Syndrome  4 Any OS other than the one you started with is weird.   bill   -- eJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   V   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 09:43:46 -0400-' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>-  Subject: Re: Could a PC do this?0 Message-ID: <1181einr2dk7781@corp.supernews.com>   Jake Hamby wrote:i   >  VMS is weird also,j  1 Well, there went any credibility with some folks.-   -- 34 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Roadu Vanderbilt, PA  15486o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 10:31:00 -0400o# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>a  Subject: Re: Could a PC do this?, Message-ID: <IvSdnTLTDYo3WB3fRVn-3g@igs.net>   Jake Hamby wrote:o >  <major snip> >rH > Beyond that, there's a more practical reason I can think of to supportD > VMS (and HP's UNIX customers) on Itanium but not x86-64.  x86 is a? > terrible architecture!  Absolutely horribly designed, too few B > registers, and it never lets you forget that it's essentially anF > overgrown 8086.  Linux runs on x86 because Linux is "for the masses"7 > and that's what most hackers have, or have access to.c >kC > In terms of difficulty of porting, Linux is written in C and some G > assembly language, so a port to x86-64 (especially given the existing0G > x86 port!) was not nearly as daunting as porting VMS would have been, A > an OS whose kernel is largely written in VAX assembly language!eE > Fortunately, VAX was a CISC architecture so DEC was able to write amF > MACRO "compiler" that generated Alpha instructions from the originalH > VAX/VMS code and the OS could be ported.  Every VAX register mapped toE > an Alpha register, and the same thing is true for IA64.  x86 simplyhH > doesn't have enough registers to do that.  x86-64 has 8 more registers= > for a grand total of 16 which is probably still not enough.l >w <major snip> >e    I All good points throughout and all are debatable at one level or another./K However for the VMS community the matter comes down to survival of VMS, not,$ necessarily the platform it runs on.  K We railed against the Alphacide because to this day and for the foreseeable I future, Alpha would have been a better platform (IMHO), and one with lessnF uncertainty and would not have 'frozen' VMS feature enhancement to the" extent that porting to Itanic has.  H We look at Itanic's less than stellar performance both in sales/adoption) rate and outright performance and cringe.s  J Porting VMS to a less than ideal architecture has already been done in theL case of Itanic. What's the big deal in porting it to another less than idealK architecture (x86-64) if it will permit VMS to be more widely sold and used.J and ensure its survival? In the .edu space, free campus licenses of VMS onJ any x86-64 machine that happens to be laying around available for it to beJ installed on would encourage VMS beeing part of the curriculum, or for useF by profs in their labs and own research, both of which expose the next@ generation of users to VMS - which they are not receiving today.  J The more people in business, government, and academia see the strengths ofJ VMS, the more they will give their heads a shake and wonder what were theyK thinking before. It won't cause Microsoft to lose any sleep, but it will upUK VMS sales to the point where we, the VMS community, will not go to bed each J night wondering whether our collective billions of dollars invested in VMSL infrastructure and applications are at risk tomorrw from an EOL announcement of VMS from HP.      --F OpenVMS - The never advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.    ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2005 11:53:23 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)-  Subject: Re: Could a PC do this?3 Message-ID: <plEKE0j0iGjJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>h  Z In article <1181einr2dk7781@corp.supernews.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: > Jake Hamby wrote:  >  >>  VMS is weird also, > 3 > Well, there went any credibility with some folks.m  D    DCL is based on english verbs.  To some folks english is a second    language.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 15:04:28 +0200s& From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>& Subject: Re: DECUS Fall Symposium 1968+ Message-ID: <3ebpqrF274h0U1@individual.net>e   jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:  E > In article <1115665778.127453.301320@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, * >    hduman@legacyglucosesensor.org wrote: >  > D >>THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'll actually be near  >>there at the end of the month! >  > @ > You're going to be at the '68 Fall DECUS?  May I hitch a ride?> > There is some material that I want to snarf away so we won't > have lost it in 2005.   . Then I'll quote what hduman was responding to:   ** start quote **R  G Using AltaVista, I found a link to the Charles Babbage Institute at thelG University of Minnesota. It looks like they may have (had?) what you'rea! looking for in their collections.A  0 The library home page is http://www.cbi.umn.edu/  I This page http://www.cbi.umn.edu/collections/inv/cbi00150.html  is titled   G "Digital Equipment Computer Users Society Proceedings and Publications, G 1962-1992" and lists a reel of microfilm with the 1968 Proceedings.  It  can't hurt to contact them.-   ** end quote **-   > ; > Sorry, obviously I have no idea what the thread is about.o >  You do now :-)   ------------------------------  ! Date: Tue, 10 May 05 12:33:54 GMT@ From: jmfbahciv@aol.comc& Subject: Re: DECUS Fall Symposium 1968, Message-ID: <TeKdnZ2oZcGFWh3fRVn-rQ@rcn.net>  + In article <3ebpqrF274h0U1@individual.net>,n*    Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch> wrote: <snip>  < >> Sorry, obviously I have no idea what the thread is about. >> C >You do now :-)   @ Thank you :-).  I've been there (CBI).  They are willing to take my little pile of stuff.     /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2005 07:21:25 -0500B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)D Subject: EDT keypad on emacs, was: Re: SEDT / JED EDT compatibility?3 Message-ID: <zzbIVebPjX73@eisner.encompasserve.org>t   In article <00A4385B.0A0276F0@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing) writes:s > N > Any advice?  (I really don't want to have to learn enough, eg, emacs to make > it use EDT keys.)  >   H To use EDT keypad mode in a emacs session, you need to do the following:  > 1) Add the following lines (tweak as required) to your .emacs:   (tpu-edt-mode)    (tpu-set-scroll-margins "6" "6")  + (global-set-key "\C-u" 'universal-argument)-   (setq require-final-newline t)  @ (define-key GOLD-CSI-map "C" 'tpu-pan-right)		; GOLD-right arrow> (define-key GOLD-CSI-map "D" 'tpu-pan-left)		; GOLD-left arrow   (menu-bar-mode 0)   J 2) If you are using X Windows instead of a serial or remote terminal, thenI you will need to use a script to create a suitable xterm with the correctaF key mappings (and has the PF1 through PF4 keys on the numeric keypad).  1 The one that I use is a modified version of this:   
  #!/bin/sh/  #Subject: Re: URGENT: VMS keyboard on SUN etc! 8  #Message-ID: <8m4uph$a44$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>0  #From: "Geoff Kingsmill" <gkingsmill@yahoo.com>&  #Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 07:56:10 +0930%  #Organization: Compaq Computer Corp.9  #L  #The following script will run xterm and remap various keyboards (includingN  #SUN) to mappings that emulate a DEC keyboard. This should appear on the next  #Freeware CDROM.r   Direct link to original script:   \ http://groups.google.no/groups?hl=en&lr=&selm=8m4uph%24a44%241%40mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com  uL Be aware that you may need to tweak some of the keyboard definitions as wellG as add in BSD support. For example, I had to reverse the left-arrow and . right-arrow definitions when running on Linux.  I 3) If you are using X Windows then you will need to startup emacs in textfI mode instead of GUI mode. I have an "alias eve='emacs -nw'" in my .bashrce	 for this.s   Simon.   -- sB Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       7 Microsoft: The Standard Oil Company of the 21st century-   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 05:29:26 -0400T+ From: Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn1@patmedia.net>|M Subject: RE: Lexical function to set environmental variables of  AlphaStation A Message-ID: <6.2.3.0.2.20050510052548.02172c38@mail.patmedia.net>   + At 04:54 AM 5/10/2005, O'Brien Paddy wrote:   C >Since you seem to be talking DCL, what's wrong with assign/define?- >-F >Talking about "environment variables" implies to me that you've gone  >to the dark side, Rudolf :-(   D The environmental variables being talked  about here are those that A can be seen at the boot prompt of an AlphaServer, not at the DCL 0F level. There is already a F$GETENV lexical and $GETENV system service A documented. What the OP was asking for was documentation for the 0G $SETENV system service and possibly the corresponding lexical F$SETENV.e   Ken    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 18:54:53 +1000a6 From: "O'Brien Paddy" <Paddy.O'Brien@transgrid.com.au>L Subject: RE: Lexical function to set environmental variables of AlphaStationX Message-ID: <8BAD914A0B8CA84C9E94187103A1AB9E05BE1B@EX-TG2-PR.corporate.transgrid.local>  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5553E.66C86021h. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printablee   Rudolf Wingert wrote:i   > Hello, >=20F > AFAIK there is an undocumented lexical function to set environmental2 > variables. Does anybody know how it can be done? >=20 > TIA and regards R. Wingert  B Since you seem to be talking DCL, what's wrong with assign/define?  L Talking about "environment variables" implies to me that you've gone to the=  dark side, Rudolf :-(   Regards, Paddy    G ***********************************************************************f  C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privilegedu@ and confidential information intended only for the use of the=20D addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of=20C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and adviseiD the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,=207 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.=  C If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid=200C immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the=20 ? individual sender except where the sender expressly and with=20nC authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid usesy> virus-scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************     ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5553E.66C86021i- Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   1 <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">" <HTML> <HEAD>L <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-= 1">_K <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version 6.5.7226.0">nL <TITLE>RE: Lexical function to set environmental variables of AlphaStation<= /TITLE>E </HEAD>M <BODY>) <!-- Converted from text/plain format -->N  + <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Rudolf Wingert wrote:<BR>T <BR> &gt; Hello,<BR>N &gt;<BR>L &gt; AFAIK there is an undocumented lexical function to set environmental<B= R>9 &gt; variables. Does anybody know how it can be done?<BR>  &gt;<BR># &gt; TIA and regards R. Wingert<BR>i <BR>F Since you seem to be talking DCL, what's wrong with assign/define?<BR> <BR>L Talking about &quot;environment variables&quot; implies to me that you've g=$ one to the dark side, Rudolf :-(<BR> <BR> Regards, Paddy<BR> </FONT>  </P>   <FONT SIZE=3D3><BR>e <BR>K ***********************************************************************<BR>s <BR>G "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged<BR>nB and confidential information intended only for the use of the <BR>F addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of <BR>G this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise<BR>eF the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, <BR>; distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.<BR>o <BR>E If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid <BR>rE immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the <BR> A individual sender except where the sender expressly and with <BR> G authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses<BR>oB virus-scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses<BR>  contained in any attachment.<BR> <BR>@ Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now<BR>( firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"<BR> <BR>K ***********************************************************************<BR>m </FONT>n </BODY>e </HTML>n) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5553E.66C86021--r   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 11:52:44 +0200r& From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>L Subject: Re: Lexical function to set environmental variables of AlphaStation+ Message-ID: <3ebejdF25eb8U1@individual.net>    O'Brien Paddy wrote:   > Rudolf Wingert wrote:t >  >  > Hello,f >  >I >  > AFAIK there is an undocumented lexical function to set environmental.5 >  > variables. Does anybody know how it can be done?R >  > >  > TIA and regards R. Wingerts > D > Since you seem to be talking DCL, what's wrong with assign/define? >s  G No Paddy, he's talking about the Alpha console variables. These containiG such info as the default boot device, boot flags, graphics/serial line h console etc.  J > Talking about "environment variables" implies to me that you've gone to  > the dark side, Rudolf :-(* >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 13:47:37 +0200T( From: "Rudolf Wingert" <win@fom.fgan.de>L Subject: RE: Lexical function to set environmental variables of AlphaStation3 Message-ID: <000301c55556$0fd76550$994614ac@wat153>c   Hello,   Paddy O=B4Brien wrotes,c  D > Since you seem to be talking DCL, what's wrong with assign/define?
 Talking aboutoD > "environment variables" implies to me that you've gone to the dark side, Rudolf :-(  H No, I am not Darth Vader alias Danakin Skywalker (or was it vice versus)C of OpenVMS. If you could me explain how I can set the environmental H variable DUMP_DEV with another DCL command, I would do it. I would to doF in case of reconfigure a running ES40 to a DOSD (Dump of System Disk).F You can change per AUTOGEN the DUMP disk and redirect the dump without6 reboot. But how can set the variable without shutdown?   Best regards R. Wingertu  H P.S. Since a few days I know, that there is no DCL command, but there isC an undocumented system service (look at Stephan Hoffman=B4s paper).5   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 09:15:53 +0200e3 From: Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com>eA Subject: Re: License facility improvement request (expiring ones) + Message-ID: <3eb5klF244vmU1@individual.net>i  & On 2005-05-09 08:53, "JF Mezei" wrote:  < > For the benefit of the highly profitable VAX hobbyists.... >  > [...]t > J > LICENSE should have the ability to licence/replace so that when you haveI > a hobbyist licence that is about to expire, you can replace it with theiF > new licence sent to you by the kind folks at the hobbyist programme. > G > (it is a pain to have to individually licence/delete old licences andc' > then add the new ones and load them).l  H Replace any occurrance of "LICENSE REGISTER" with "LICENSE 'command'" inE the DCL command procedure you get from the hobbyist program and add aeB "$command=p1" line at the very beginning, perhaps with some syntax checking ...   > [...]    Michaeln   -- h; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers.o5 My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 10:18:33 -0500 ( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>A Subject: Re: License facility improvement request (expiring ones)e/ Message-ID: <00A438D2.153E5B33.3@tachysoft.com>a  & >Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 02:53:29 -0400. >From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  ; >For the benefit of the highly profitable VAX hobbyists....c >rG >LICENSE should have the ability to list all licences that are about tor >expire within X time. >lI >LICENSE should have the ability to licence/replace so that when you have H >a hobbyist licence that is about to expire, you can replace it with theE >new licence sent to you by the kind folks at the hobbyist programme.i >xF >(it is a pain to have to individually licence/delete old licences and& >then add the new ones and load them). >-4 >perhaps "license update" which would automatically:8 >	-delete existing licence about to (or already) expiredG >	-register the new licence with all the other parameters accompagnying  >the update (same as register)) >	-load the licence so it is operational.  > D >Hobbyists have to update all their licenses once a year and this is >extremely time consuming :-)e    O It is the same thing with the alpha vms sdk.  Basically all the licenses expirenN a few months after your sdk does and you reload the database with a completely new set when you renew.l  N However, this is trivially easy because they provide you with a single commandF procedure that does all the licenses in one shot.  For *every* licenseH available with the SDK, it deletes the old license and adds the new one.  H For instance, a search for "pascal" in the command procedure results in:    $ license disable/log PASCAL/all $ LICENSE REGISTER PASCAL -e) $ license unload/log PASCAL /producer=DECt4 $ license enable PASCAL /auth=xxxxxxx  /producer=DEC# $ license load PASCAL /producer=DECy  ' and so on for every product in the SDK.t  L The downside is that you would also load the licenses for products you don'tM care about, but you can't have it both ways.  It doesn't hurt anything, other*I than taking up space in the license database and system-wide logical nameo tables.e  J Since the hobbyist kit also contains a discrete list of licenses, the same thing could be done.O ===============================================================================yN Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html   :O ===============================================================================rP Jake Blues:"You traded the Caddy for a microphone? ...... Okay, I can buy that."   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2005 11:02:49 -05004 From: kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt)A Subject: Re: License facility improvement request (expiring ones) 3 Message-ID: <GjJOhb$LNhQD@eisner.encompasserve.org>n  Z In article <00A438D2.153E5B33.3@tachysoft.com>, Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com> writes:' >>Date: Mon, 09 May 2005 02:53:29 -0400c/ >>From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>& > < >>For the benefit of the highly profitable VAX hobbyists.... >>H >>LICENSE should have the ability to list all licences that are about to >>expire within X time.V >>J >>LICENSE should have the ability to licence/replace so that when you haveI >>a hobbyist licence that is about to expire, you can replace it with the=F >>new licence sent to you by the kind folks at the hobbyist programme. >>G >>(it is a pain to have to individually licence/delete old licences ande' >>then add the new ones and load them).R >>5 >>perhaps "license update" which would automatically:B9 >>	-delete existing licence about to (or already) expired'H >>	-register the new licence with all the other parameters accompagnying >>the update (same as register)'* >>	-load the licence so it is operational. >>E >>Hobbyists have to update all their licenses once a year and this isi >>extremely time consuming :-) >  > Q > It is the same thing with the alpha vms sdk.  Basically all the licenses expire P > a few months after your sdk does and you reload the database with a completely > new set when you renew.c > P > However, this is trivially easy because they provide you with a single commandH > procedure that does all the licenses in one shot.  For *every* licenseJ > available with the SDK, it deletes the old license and adds the new one. > J > For instance, a search for "pascal" in the command procedure results in: > " > $ license disable/log PASCAL/all > $ LICENSE REGISTER PASCAL -f+ > $ license unload/log PASCAL /producer=DECe6 > $ license enable PASCAL /auth=xxxxxxx  /producer=DEC% > $ license load PASCAL /producer=DECt > ) > and so on for every product in the SDK.  > N > The downside is that you would also load the licenses for products you don'tO > care about, but you can't have it both ways.  It doesn't hurt anything, otherrK > than taking up space in the license database and system-wide logical namef	 > tables.   H Another downside of this procedure, which I have been bitten by, is thatH it disables _ALL_ licenses for a product.  I had a system with permanentJ C and VMSCLUSTER licenses that were disabled by the SDK license procedure.J I usually used to just edit the SDK (or hobbyist) license command proc and! keep the ones I need.  Less fuss.d   > L > Since the hobbyist kit also contains a discrete list of licenses, the same > thing could be done.Q > ===============================================================================oP > Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com= > http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html   sQ > ===============================================================================;R > Jake Blues:"You traded the Caddy for a microphone? ...... Okay, I can buy that."   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 17:00:12 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond)yA Subject: Re: License facility improvement request (expiring ones)y2 Message-ID: <wM5ge.5159$8M5.2582@news.cpqcorp.net>  4 In article <GjJOhb$LNhQD@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 6 kuhrt@nospammy.encompasserve.org (Marty Kuhrt) writes:   ..G >LICENSE should have the ability to list all licences that are about to  >expire within X time. ..  7 Here is the DCL kludge I use to do this.  FWIW.  Enjoy!d     $! $! LIC_CHECK.COM $!' $! Check for soon-to-terminate licensesi $! $!  Resubmit job $!A $!  To avoid requeueing and reruning immedialty, wait one minute.  $! $   wait 00:01 $!' $!  We will not run this on Sat or Sun.f $!4 $!  If this is FRIDAY , re-submit it for next MONDAY $!2 $   if f$cvtime("TODAY",,"WEEKDAY") .eqs. "Friday"9 $   then        ! On Friday, "TOMORROW+2-" is next Mondayo7 $       after_time = f$cvtime("TOMORROW+2-","ABSOLUTE")s $   else4 $       after_time = f$cvtime("TOMORROW","ABSOLUTE")	 $   endif* $! $   set noon? $   submit lic_check.com /name=lic_check /after="''after_time'"5 $   stat = $status
 $   set on; $   if .not. $status                                       r $   then! $       mail blank.txt _hammond - F             /subj="LIC_CHECK failed to re-submit itself -- continuing"	 $   endifa $!- $!  On Monday check for anything w/i 30 days.z2 $   if f$cvtime("TODAY",,"WEEKDAY") .eqs. "Monday" $   then/ $       pipe sho lic | sear sys$input terminateM? $       if $status .eq. %X10000001  ! normal -- found terminateo $       then% $           mail blank.txt _hammond -pH                 /subj="1 or more licenses will terminate within 30 days" $           exit $       else< $           if $status .ne. %X18D78053  ! No strings matched $           thenO $!              Anything other than normal and no strigs matched is unexpected.e) $               mail blank.txt _hammond -yB                     /subj="Unexpected status in LIC-CHECK.COM(30)" $           exit $           endifp
 $       endifp $!* $!  Other days, check only for w/i 10 days $   else. $       x$d = f$cvtime("today+10-","absolute")" $       x$d = f$element(0," ",x$d)K $       pipe sho lic /before /termination='x$d'   | sear sys$input criterianE $       if $status .eq. %X18D78053  ! No strings matched -- terminateh $       then% $           mail blank.txt _hammond -tH                 /subj="1 or more licenses will terminate within 10 days" $           exit $       else9 $           if $status .ne. %X10000001  ! normal -- foundi $           thenO $!              Anything other than normal and no strigs matched is unexpected.b) $               mail blank.txt _hammond -aB                     /subj="Unexpected status in LIC-CHECK.COM(10)" $           exit $           endif 
 $       endif 	 $   endifn   --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 10:06:09 -0400 ? From: "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" <david@hpaq.net> # Subject: More DS10 systems in stocke8 Message-ID: <za3ge.6938$7A2.3115@bignews6.bellsouth.net>   In stock   Configure your system here   www.islandco.com/ds10.html  . http://www.islandco.com/ds10_configurator.html         --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404a Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Skype ID: islandco Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@icusc.come Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.htmlt   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 07:04:03 +0000 (UTC)nP From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)A Subject: Re: new question on (Cyrillic) fonts with Mozilla on VMSn$ Message-ID: <d5pmd3$am4$1@online.de>  5 In article <427FDE23.79C974DC@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezeit' <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:    1 > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:eM > > > Now that both X and Motif are open source, and since HP no longer sellso > > > VAX-VMS, > > > > > Really?  Do you mean the operating system or the hardware? > E > Since HP no longer sells VAX machines, isn't it expected that it no J > longer sells new VAX-VMS licenses ? They are not even sure of 8.2 on vax- > will be produced as was originall promised.   E It is common to buy operating-system licenses for versions of the OS eG which appeared after the hardware was manufactured.  This was true for pH VAX when it was being manufactured, and is true for ALPHA.  Presumably, E this is also the case even if VAXes are no longer being manufactured.   7 I'm rather certain one can buy VMS 7.3 for VAX from HP.w  C > By the way, I was thinking about you yesterday but couldn't reply E > because I had all my clothes on :-) Have you thought of getting the(L > decwindows-russian kits ? Wouldn't they include plenty of cyrillic fonts ?  D Where can I get them?  I seem to remember looking into this at some I point, but they were discontinued or something, so someone would have to a' send me an old CD with the fonts on it.    ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2005 07:36:33 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)cA Subject: Re: new question on (Cyrillic) fonts with Mozilla on VMSt3 Message-ID: <wqgARho+agUk@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  \ In article <427FDE23.79C974DC@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > E > Since HP no longer sells VAX machines, isn't it expected that it nohJ > longer sells new VAX-VMS licenses ? They are not even sure of 8.2 on vax- > will be produced as was originall promised.z >   A    Since folks are buying and selling VAXen and emulators, and HP D    controls the right to transfer licenses, HP should be making some,    small amount of money from those systems.  G    Otherwise it would make more sense for HP to grant every VAX a free,i?    permanent license and cut the administrative cost of the VAXt    licenses.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 11:05:22 -0400t4 From: "Peter Weaver" <newsgroup@weaverconsulting.ca>A Subject: Re: new question on (Cyrillic) fonts with Mozilla on VMSm+ Message-ID: <3ec0tmF2a9g2U1@individual.net>   / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:n >...F > It is common to buy operating-system licenses for versions of the OSH > which appeared after the hardware was manufactured.  This was true for< > VAX when it was being manufactured, and is true for ALPHA.E > Presumably, this is also the case even if VAXes are no longer beinge > manufactured.t >r9 > I'm rather certain one can buy VMS 7.3 for VAX from HP.f >...  E Yes, you can buy a VMS licence for a VAX today. I have a base licensem! here that was issued 17-FEB-2005.e   -- h Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.e Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAX  www.weaverconsulting.cae   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 02:07:52 -0700r- From: Jake Hamby <jhamby IS AT pobox DOT com>i& Subject: Re: OpenVMS and Mac OS X 10.48 Message-ID: <nkt081tr12mv58t2sodrp9m5567sbhpt0i@4ax.com>  6 On 1 May 2005 03:50:02 GMT, healyzh@aracnet.com wrote:  K >I ended up getting 10.4 a lot sooner than I intended to, and realisticallyc" >sooner than I feel I should have. >aJ >One big problem for me is that it would appear that it no longer supportsL >classic Appletalk shares, so I can no longer access the Appletalk shares onI >my OpenVMS 7.3-2 system.  Realistically I should have taken care of thissL >issue on my own and stopped using it a few years ago, and it was one of theI >issues that kept me on Mac OS 9 for as long as I was (initially Mac OS XoL >didn't support them).  Still I find it odd that they appear to have removed? >the support, since they went to the trouble to add it back in.   E For what it's worth, I just bought a Mac Mini with OS 10.4 for use astF a desktop development system and to use as a front-end (X server + sshF logins) to my OpenVMS 8.2 Alpha system.  One great use for Mac OS X isE as an LPD print server for a cheap color inkjet printer, so the AlphasD can connect and print to it as if it was a Postscript printer and OSE X's built-in CUPS software does all the PS rasterizing.  You could do C the same thing with Linux but it wouldn't have been point-and-clicko simple to set up.a  F But one disappointment was that I wasn't able to access an OpenVMS NFS= share from Mac OS X.  According to OPCOM, the Mac was sendingtD successful mount requests, and "showmount -e" showed the share I wasB trying to mound, but the result of "nfs_mount" on the Mac side wasF always "Permission denied".  I tried "-P" and several other flags like? "-2" and nothing worked.  When I tried the Finder's "Connect topF Server" dialog, OPCOM again showed a successful attempt but the Finder7 would hang in the "connecting to server" status window.a  A I'll see if OS 10.3.9 has the same problem, and if so, if there's6F anything obvious I can determine from reading the Darwin source.  I'llF also try mounting the share from Linux.  I'm not even going to attempt Appletalk.  :-)    -Jake    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 12:06:01 +0200o& From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>& Subject: Re: OpenVMS and Mac OS X 10.4+ Message-ID: <3ebfc9F1su2hU1@individual.net>e   Jake Hamby wrote:w  8 > On 1 May 2005 03:50:02 GMT, healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: >  > L >>I ended up getting 10.4 a lot sooner than I intended to, and realistically# >>sooner than I feel I should have.e >>K >>One big problem for me is that it would appear that it no longer supports:M >>classic Appletalk shares, so I can no longer access the Appletalk shares oneJ >>my OpenVMS 7.3-2 system.  Realistically I should have taken care of thisM >>issue on my own and stopped using it a few years ago, and it was one of thetJ >>issues that kept me on Mac OS 9 for as long as I was (initially Mac OS XM >>didn't support them).  Still I find it odd that they appear to have removed @ >>the support, since they went to the trouble to add it back in. >  > G > For what it's worth, I just bought a Mac Mini with OS 10.4 for use asnH > a desktop development system and to use as a front-end (X server + sshH > logins) to my OpenVMS 8.2 Alpha system.  One great use for Mac OS X isG > as an LPD print server for a cheap color inkjet printer, so the AlphaiF > can connect and print to it as if it was a Postscript printer and OSG > X's built-in CUPS software does all the PS rasterizing.  You could doeE > the same thing with Linux but it wouldn't have been point-and-click  > simple to set up.e > H > But one disappointment was that I wasn't able to access an OpenVMS NFS? > share from Mac OS X.  According to OPCOM, the Mac was sending-F > successful mount requests, and "showmount -e" showed the share I wasD > trying to mound, but the result of "nfs_mount" on the Mac side wasH > always "Permission denied".  I tried "-P" and several other flags likeA > "-2" and nothing worked.  When I tried the Finder's "Connect tocH > Server" dialog, OPCOM again showed a successful attempt but the Finder9 > would hang in the "connecting to server" status window.r > C > I'll see if OS 10.3.9 has the same problem, and if so, if there'siB > anything obvious I can determine from reading the Darwin source.  I I tried this last year, and also got nowhere accessing the VMS NFS share oI from within Finder. I got automount working fine and no problem from the  = CLI though, if that helps. This was of course, prior to 10.4.e  G See the thread from 14-Apr-2005 for that. I include a tinyurl referencev to my post of last year.   > I'llH > also try mounting the share from Linux.  I'm not even going to attempt > Appletalk.  :-)a >  > -Jaket   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 12:28:02 GMTn* From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>> Subject: Re: Powerstorm graphics w/ VMS -- and OpenGL, anyone?2 Message-ID: <mN1ge.5131$Yv5.4682@news.cpqcorp.net>   What hardware platform?   L Not all of the "Powerstorm" cards were done for VMS (Powerstorm was a random	 marketingnG name that included a bunch of different architectures).  The Powerstormd 300/350 is supportedK (it is an OEM E&S card).  The current card is the ATI Radeon 7500.  Both of  these cards areeE supported out-of-the-box, but require an Open3D license for OpenGL toa operate.  There areo' older cards as well, such as the ZLX-P.a  K But to tell you what card will work, ad what you need - you need to give us  the type of platform9 (for instance DS10, or XP1000) and the version of the OS.   > "Christopher Smith" <csmith@stu.parkland.edu> wrote in message2 news:1115694045.2e7c55fccsmith@stu.parkland.edu...
 Hey everyone.    Two questions:  L How is support for Powerstorm graphics (aka Intergraph intense3d realizm, orK something like that) under vms?  If that's hopeless, what is my best optionpK for a decent (pci) graphics setup?  Also, anyone know whether/how opengl ise
 available?   Chris    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 02:41:45 -0400i' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>c* Subject: Re: SEDT / JED EDT compatibility?0 Message-ID: <1180ltcbdhthm4a@corp.supernews.com>  , Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote: > VMSers --w > K > I have need to edit a few files on a BSD system.  I don't know _vi_, etc,dJ > and have considerable fluency only with EDT and EVE.  So I'm looking forL > something on BSD that'll support EDT keys.  I seem to recall that JED does  > this, and that SEDT does this. > K > The system manager has kindly installed SEDT, but when I try to start it  4 > there's a complaint about the absence of defm.edt  > M > JED starts up okay, but it doesn't seem to understand EDT keys and I don't o > know how to make it do that. > N > Any advice?  (I really don't want to have to learn enough, eg, emacs to make > it use EDT keys.)- > 	 > Thanks,a > 	 > -- Alan  >  >   L If you know FTP, then FTP the files to VMS, edit them, and FTP them to unix.   -- d4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road> Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 06:55:42 GMT + From: LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM (leslie) * Subject: Re: SEDT / JED EDT compatibility?7 Message-ID: <OVYfe.49198$AE6.7554@tornado.texas.rr.com>m  M Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing (winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU) wrote:g : VMSers --F : K : I have need to edit a few files on a BSD system.  I don't know _vi_, etc,1J : and have considerable fluency only with EDT and EVE.  So I'm looking forH : something on BSD that'll support EDT keys.  I seem to recall that JED % : does this, and that SEDT does this.  : K : The system manager has kindly installed SEDT, but when I try to start it d4 : there's a complaint about the absence of defm.edt  : M : JED starts up okay, but it doesn't seem to understand EDT keys and I don't g : know how to make it do that. : J : Any advice?  (I really don't want to have to learn enough, eg, emacs to  : make it use EDT keys.) : 	 : Thanks,a : 	 : -- Alany : G Use Charles Sandmann's ED editor, an EDT look-alike. You can install it/J on the BSD system, or use it from a PC since it has a built-in FTP client.  
 More info at:   0     http://clio.rice.edu/EDstuff/ED_Overview.txt     --Jerry Leslie9   Note: leslie@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email8   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 08:59:49 +0200 & From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>* Subject: Re: SEDT / JED EDT compatibility?+ Message-ID: <3eb4f4F24ncgU1@individual.net>1  , Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:  \ > In article <BEA578A6.DA57%roktsci@comcast.net>, Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net> writes: > I >>On 5/9/05 8:06 PM, in article 00A4385B.0A0276F0@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU,tJ >>"Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing" <winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> >>wrote: >> >> >>>VMSers -- >>>-L >>>I have need to edit a few files on a BSD system.  I don't know _vi_, etc,K >>>and have considerable fluency only with EDT and EVE.  So I'm looking for-M >>>something on BSD that'll support EDT keys.  I seem to recall that JED doesd! >>>this, and that SEDT does this.  >>>cK >>>The system manager has kindly installed SEDT, but when I try to start itz4 >>>there's a complaint about the absence of defm.edt >>>8M >>>JED starts up okay, but it doesn't seem to understand EDT keys and I don'to >>>know how to make it do that.s >>> O >>>Any advice?  (I really don't want to have to learn enough, eg, emacs to make  >>>it use EDT keys.) >>> 
 >>>Thanks, >>> 
 >>>-- Alan >>>e >>>, >>% >>Just one of many sites with nu/TPU:eN >>http://www.sector7.com/OPENVMS%20MIGRATION/Third%20Party%20Tools/nuTPU/nutpu >>.htm >>: >>With nu/TPU which is a TPU for UNIX, you can use the VMSB >>eve$section.tpu$section which has the EDT keypad embeeded in it. >> >  > M > Oops, sorry, neglected to mention that there is no money available for thiseE > project whatsoever.  That's why I was looking at free alternatives.  >   H One very simple editor I've found on both Linux and OS X (based on BSD) D is pico. No EDT keypad unfortunately, but I find the cursor key and 2 Up/down page navigation suffices for simple edits.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 07:06:52 GMT:L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing)* Subject: Re: SEDT / JED EDT compatibility?6 Message-ID: <00A4387C.A1E1FEDD@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  Z In article <1180ltcbdhthm4a@corp.supernews.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:- >Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:a >> VMSers -- >> bL >> I have need to edit a few files on a BSD system.  I don't know _vi_, etc,K >> and have considerable fluency only with EDT and EVE.  So I'm looking for2M >> something on BSD that'll support EDT keys.  I seem to recall that JED doeso! >> this, and that SEDT does this.  >> dL >> The system manager has kindly installed SEDT, but when I try to start it 5 >> there's a complaint about the absence of defm.edt s >>  N >> JED starts up okay, but it doesn't seem to understand EDT keys and I don't  >> know how to make it do that.  >>  O >> Any advice?  (I really don't want to have to learn enough, eg, emacs to makee >> it use EDT keys.) >> i
 >> Thanks, >> d
 >> -- Alan >> f >> 2 > M >If you know FTP, then FTP the files to VMS, edit them, and FTP them to unix.0  K I've done that for the web content files I need to edit on that system, butoK I can't easily do it for the Apache configuration files, because my vanilla0I login doesn't have privileges to overwrite those files and I have to use P sudo to do it.    C (And it's a pain in the butt to repeat trivial changes doing that.)    -- Alano       >o >-- 5 >David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450k5 >Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596 ? >DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.comt >170 Grimplin Road >Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 10:59:59 +0200d' From: JOUKJ <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>a* Subject: Re: SEDT / JED EDT compatibility?2 Message-ID: <4280780F.7020904@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>  , Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote: > VMSers --1 > K > I have need to edit a few files on a BSD system.  I don't know _vi_, etc,RJ > and have considerable fluency only with EDT and EVE.  So I'm looking forL > something on BSD that'll support EDT keys.  I seem to recall that JED does  > this, and that SEDT does this. > K > The system manager has kindly installed SEDT, but when I try to start it p4 > there's a complaint about the absence of defm.edt  > M > JED starts up okay, but it doesn't seem to understand EDT keys and I don't   > know how to make it do that.    H By default this is switched off. JED comes with a file bin/jed.rc. Copy 8 this file to your home directory and rename it to .jedrcF You have to uncomment some lines in this file (search for EDT and edt)               > N > Any advice?  (I really don't want to have to learn enough, eg, emacs to make > it use EDT keys.)* > 	 > Thanks,* > 	 > -- Alan* >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2005 07:42:54 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)e* Subject: Re: SEDT / JED EDT compatibility?3 Message-ID: <Tn1z0Cs40yle@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <00A4387C.A1E1FEDD@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing) writes:i  M > I've done that for the web content files I need to edit on that system, butiM > I can't easily do it for the Apache configuration files, because my vanilla K > login doesn't have privileges to overwrite those files and I have to use l > sudo to do it.   > E > (And it's a pain in the butt to repeat trivial changes doing that.)n  >    For trivial chnages, you should learn enough vi to survive.   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2005 07:40:27 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)** Subject: Re: SEDT / JED EDT compatibility?3 Message-ID: <DmjRBNlFN8$R@eisner.encompasserve.org>E   In article <00A4385B.0A0276F0@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing) writes:/ > VMSers --/ > K > I have need to edit a few files on a BSD system.  I don't know _vi_, etc,hJ > and have considerable fluency only with EDT and EVE.  So I'm looking forL > something on BSD that'll support EDT keys.  I seem to recall that JED does  > this, and that SEDT does this.  -    Got a VMS system you can copy the file to?a  F    I've used ed (another EDT clone, not the UNIX ed), and you have theG    same problem.  All of those EDT clones need some kind of file to mapiC    to the usually-non-VT keyboard.  So you get to hunt the 'net for D    someone else's predefined mappings or spend some time working out    your own.  @    Another solution is to learn just enough emacs to get the EDTH    emulator up and running.  If your BSD system understands the terminal#    you're using, emacs should, too.(   ------------------------------   Date: 10 May 2005 14:19:01 GMT/ From: Thierry Dussuet <thierry@dussuet.lugs.ch>** Subject: Re: SEDT / JED EDT compatibility?/ Message-ID: <slrnd81gml.r2.thierry@MARS.Family>c   Hello!  ; On 2005-05-10, leslie <LESLIE@JRLVAX.HOUSTON.RR.COM> wrote:eO > Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing (winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU) wrote:o >: VMSers -- >:  L >: I have need to edit a few files on a BSD system.  I don't know _vi_, etc,K >: and have considerable fluency only with EDT and EVE.  So I'm looking forcI >: something on BSD that'll support EDT keys.  I seem to recall that JED l& >: does this, and that SEDT does this. >: eI > Use Charles Sandmann's ED editor, an EDT look-alike. You can install ituL > on the BSD system, or use it from a PC since it has a built-in FTP client. >  > More info at:f >a2 >     http://clio.rice.edu/EDstuff/ED_Overview.txt  O I just wanted to try it out and had to make some small changes to the source to> get it running:   K replace my_sscanf, my_fscanf & co. to sscanf, fscanf etc. in almost all thec sources>   remove libc.c from objects  # change line 877 of load_file.c from* 	while (gets(buffer))n to) 	while(fgets(buffer, BUFFER_SIZE, stdin))5  ( (not required, but gets is most evil :-)   add  	#define HAVE_SYSERRLIST TRUE4( to config.h (after runnin autoconfigure)  J This is for FreeBSD here, but I don't think it would change alot for other systems.   Thierry3   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2005 06:51:18 -0700" From: teresa2000@women-at-work.org) Subject: UUCP or SMTP-AUTH on OpenVMS/AXPaC Message-ID: <1115733077.985140.116360@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>o   Hi,n  C for private purposes, I'd like to set up an Alpha with OpenVMS. Onem= service I want to run on this is email. There are two ways toP accomplish this for me:t  D Either, I find some UUCP software running on Alpha, a UUCP uplink is available yet.  ? Or, I find a way to retrieve Mails from an POP3 server and sendr0 outbound mail to an SMTP server using SMTP-AUTH.  F I searched the web recently but didn't find a way for either approach.   Does someone here know one?    Tracyr   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2005 11:55:11 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)0- Subject: Re: UUCP or SMTP-AUTH on OpenVMS/AXP,3 Message-ID: <GKQGg6ke2RXg@eisner.encompasserve.org>e  h In article <1115733077.985140.116360@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, teresa2000@women-at-work.org writes: > Hi,  > E > for private purposes, I'd like to set up an Alpha with OpenVMS. Onen? > service I want to run on this is email. There are two ways tox > accomplish this for me:i > F > Either, I find some UUCP software running on Alpha, a UUCP uplink is > available yet. > A > Or, I find a way to retrieve Mails from an POP3 server and send 2 > outbound mail to an SMTP server using SMTP-AUTH.  G    Netscape and Mozilla have POP clients that work just fine under VMS.rD    For UUCP look in the DECUS library for VAXNET, you may have to do    a little port to Alpha.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 17:02:04 GMT-7 From: John Malmberg <malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hp>5- Subject: Re: UUCP or SMTP-AUTH on OpenVMS/AXPs2 Message-ID: <gO5ge.5160$sN5.1007@news.cpqcorp.net>  # teresa2000@women-at-work.org wrote:g > Hi,3 > E > for private purposes, I'd like to set up an Alpha with OpenVMS. One ? > service I want to run on this is email. There are two ways to  > accomplish this for me:u > F > Either, I find some UUCP software running on Alpha, a UUCP uplink is > available yet. > A > Or, I find a way to retrieve Mails from an POP3 server and sendy2 > outbound mail to an SMTP server using SMTP-AUTH. > H > I searched the web recently but didn't find a way for either approach.  $ http://www.mozilla.org/releases/#1.7   or  C http://www.hp.com/go/openvms - Follow e-Business links and then HP  : Secure Web Browser based on Mozilla.  This leads today to:  = http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/cswb/cswb.htmly   > Does someone here know one?   E Mozilla is able to both send using SMTP-AUTH and is able to retrieve e from a POP3 or IMAP host.D  F It can also use the alternate ports for SMTP-AUTH.  I would recommend ' using port 587 as specified by the RFC.   C While port 25 may work at the present for SMTP-AUTH, many ISPs are vI blocking port 25 for access to external mail servers, sometimes with out cF any advance notice.  So anyone using port 25 now for SMTP-AUTH should C make sure that port 587 works and switch before they are forced to.A  H While Mozilla requires Decwindows-Motif and TCP/IP, it does not require ; that you set up SMTP on OpenVMS system if you chose not to.l  F You can also display the output of Mozilla on any X-11 server, so the 8 OpenVMS system does not need to have a graphics adapter.    . [Preemptive to replies about Port 25 blocking]  E Some large ISPs have refused all e-mails from other ISPs that permit eE spam to be sent through port 25 from compromised computers now being pG called zombies, so ISPs are blocking that port either as a response to c? that action or to prevent that action after receiving a notice.i  G When an ISP blocks port 25 for external connections from DHCP users or  G non-registered internal mail servers, it basically makes their network  ? almost useless for spammers and blocks many virus propagations.m  G This saves the ISP considerable amounts of operating cash, because the hG bandwidth consumed costs the ISP cash, and during the spam/virus runs, aI the network overloads cause their customers slowdowns and outages, which i: means support staff time, and refunds for lack of service.  H Which means if you are on a broadband DSL or Cable connection, and your I ISP is not yet blocking port 25 for anything that is not registered with nF them as a mail server, many of the slowdowns and outages that you are H seeing is from one or more zombied computers sharing a common link with  yours at your ISP.    I It really does not matter if people agree with the policy or not.  It is dG being done, and if you have a DHCP connection with port 25 still open,  F on a broadband ISP, it is probably only a matter of time before it is F blocked unless you have service that explicitly permits a mail server.  G It basically is a simple decision as soon as the business managers for cE the network start looking at the cost of a single zombie computer on i* their network spewing spam out on port 25.  G Most mail servers that I know of will not accept connections from DHCP =E addresses anyway because of the 99.999999% chance that anything from y$ them is going to be spam or a virus.  / [/Preemptive to replies about Port 25 blocking]=   -John=! malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hp= Personal Opinion Onlyr   ------------------------------    Date: 10 May 2005 07:33:29 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)y Subject: VAXen need PWDMIX3 Message-ID: <CLxbCQxImNaO@eisner.encompasserve.org>c  w In article <d5oi0p$6n0$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:t > J > I'm not so sure.  As a hobbyist, I'm running 7.3 VAX with all patches.  D > I suspect, however, that many VAXes, mainly those owned by paying J > customers, are running "legacy" apps, where stability is more important  > than new features.  C    One new feature that VAXen need is PWDMIX.  I don't care if theyoC    call it 7.3-2 or 8.2 or 19.25, it's something the security folksl    keep pressing for.w   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.260 ************************