1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 13 May 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 265       Contents: Re: /TRANS=TERMINAL  Re: apache log rotation  Re: apache log rotation  Re: BACKUP A:[...]*.* B:[...]  Re: BACKUP A:[...]*.* B:[...]  Re: BACKUP A:[...]*.* B:[...] # Re: DECterm oddity (mangled output) ( Re: DUMP /ASCII - Request for Guy Peleg?J Re: INFO-VAX 2005.262Re: Powerstorm graphics w/ VMS -- and OpenGL, anyone? Re: Letters to the new CEO Re: Letters to the new CEO: Moving bookmarks from Firefox to Secure Web Browser on VMS+ Re: OT: Only slightly off-shore programming + Re: OT: Only slightly off-shore programming + Re: OT: Only slightly off-shore programming + Re: OT: Only slightly off-shore programming + Re: OT: Only slightly off-shore programming + Re: OT: Only slightly off-shore programming + Re: OT: Only slightly off-shore programming P RE: Re: OT: Only slightly off-shore programming - Bayesian Filter	 detected spamP Re: Re: OT: Only slightly off-shore programming - Bayesian Filter	 detected spam Replacement monitors Re: Replacement monitors Re: Replacement monitors Re: Replacement monitors Re: seti on itanium? Re: Strange PINGing ? " Re: The continuing saga of the VAX" Re: The continuing saga of the VAX$ Winning slogan for the License PlateB Re: Your VMS Sig (was Re: OT: Only slightly off-shore programming): [OT]: Dell posts excellent results - wait and see about HP  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 12 May 2005 14:06:57 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: /TRANS=TERMINALC Message-ID: <1115932017.678605.304380@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: D > In article <1115918678.155557.56380@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" " > <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes: > G > > No. /NAME=NOALIAS is to prevent a user from superseding the logical F > > name. You can still define the equivalence name as another logical	 > > name.  > > ' > > $ DEFINE DISK DSA100: /NAME=NOALIAS  > > $ DEFINE DSA100 DSA200:  > > + > > This will make DISK point to DSA200: !.  >  > Right. > F > > If you used /TRAN=TERM instead then DISK would point to DSA100: !. > 1 > Yes.  But is that WHY /TRANS=TERM was invented?     F I think so. This is to be absolutely sure that logical names translateD as intended. If someone inadevertently redefined an important system@ logical name or name table or node name then it could cause someF serious problems, especially if the system manager did it! It seems toB me that all the VMS-defined logical names use /tran=term unless anA additional translation is known to be necessary. For example, you B couldn't make SYS$MANAGER and friends terminal because translationD would stop at SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR] (in this example) and it wouldn't? work. You need translation to continue at least one more level. F (Basically, if a VMS-defined logical name translates to an equivalenceE name containing a physical device name or the "raw" name of a logical A name table, you can be sure that SHOW LOGICAL/FULL will show that 1 equivalence name to have the terminal attribute!)   C It's a precaution against mostly unlikely events. Though one poster E (sorry, I can't recall who) in a similar thread here said that people B used to use applications that contained hard-coded disk names (notA recommended!) and move stuff from one disk to another and then to A things like DEFINE DKA100 DKA200: as a quick fix. You can see how D system logical names like SYS$SYSDECIVE, SYS$SYSROOT, and SYS$COMMONC could get into trouble without the terminal attribute! I think most C other things like this are on the unlikely side, but this is one of & many things that make VMS so reliable.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 19:55:15 +0100 # From: issinoho <issinoho@gmail.com>   Subject: Re: apache log rotation1 Message-ID: <1115924147.9563.0@dyke.uk.clara.net>    Chris Sharman wrote: > tim.beaudin@hp.com wrote:  >  >>  Does this help?  >>  >> $ @sys$manager:apache$symbols >> $ httpd -k flush  >>	 >> and/or  >>  >> $ @sys$manager:apache$symbols >> $ httpd -k new  >  >  > That's the business - thanks. : > Did I miss some documentation, or is this undocumented ? > 
 > httpd -h > 3 > knows about a bunch of options, but not that one. 4 > Seems like something which ought to be documented. > 	 > Thanks,  > Chris  >  >> Chris Sharman wrote:  >>. >>> How do I do this (VMS 7.3-1, Apache 2.0) ?@ >>> Is there something better than rename & (graceful) restart ?F >>> When I do that, it dutifully opens new logs, but doesn't close the >> >> >> old >>: >>> ones ! They're still locked by the apache$sws process. >>>  >>> Alan Winston's book says1 >>>  @sys$startup:apache$config NEW ! followed by % >>>  @sys$startup:apache$config FLUSH  >>> G >>> Seems an odd procedure to contain that function, and when I try it,  >> >> >> it says:  >>$ >>> $ @sys$startup:apache$config new >>> 7 >>>              HP Secure Web Server for OpenVMS Alpha ; >>>                                       [based on Apache]  >>> E >>>         This procedure helps you define the operating environment A >>>         required to run the Secure Web Server on this system.  >>> ? >>> ERROR: Do not configure while the servers are still running < >>>     Please shutdown any servers first, then reconfigure. >>> %SYSTEM-F-ABORT, abort >>>  >>> Thanks, 	 >>> Chris  >> >> >>  A It should also be noted that the HTTPD executable may not always  : function correctly unless the following is executed first,  ! @apache$root:[000000]apache$setup   F Chris, if you get a chance could you cross-post this thread into VAMP.
 Thanks, mate.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 23:40:24 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing)  Subject: Re: apache log rotation6 Message-ID: <00A43A99.C23E5522@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  g In article <d5vgcj$9oc$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>, Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> writes: + >How do I do this (VMS 7.3-1, Apache 2.0) ? = >Is there something better than rename & (graceful) restart ? H >When I do that, it dutifully opens new logs, but doesn't close the old 7 >ones ! They're still locked by the apache$sws process.  >  >Alan Winston's book says / >  @sys$startup:apache$config NEW ! followed by # >  @sys$startup:apache$config FLUSH  > M >Seems an odd procedure to contain that function, and when I try it, it says: ! >$ @sys$startup:apache$config new  > 5 >              HP Secure Web Server for OpenVMS Alpha 9 >                                       [based on Apache]  > C >         This procedure helps you define the operating environment ? >         required to run the Secure Web Server on this system.  > < >ERROR: Do not configure while the servers are still running: >     Please shutdown any servers first, then reconfigure. >%SYSTEM-F-ABORT, abort     F I'm not running Apache 2.0 (and won't be until the changes to support F non-STM-LF files are in place), and the book was published before 2.0 	 came out.   F This does actually work on SWS versions prior to 2.0, and it's how my & monthly reset-the-log-files job works.  G Apparently it's changed; I'll make a note of that for the next edition.    -- Alan    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 21:55:16 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>& Subject: Re: BACKUP A:[...]*.* B:[...]+ Message-ID: <42841714.314986B7@comcast.net>   / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:  > J > I'm sure it is a known bug that BACKUP A:[...]*.* B:[...] doesn't behaveJ > as expected if B: is not a real device but rather B = C[D.] [concealed].+ > I think this has been around for a while.  > ' > Is there any chance it will be fixed?  > E > What are other instances when, from a user point of view, B doesn't I > behave the same as C[D.]?  One that I can think of is that one can't do > > DEFINE E B:[F.] if B is defined as above.  Are there others?  G May I assume that "C[D.]" (apparently, colon(":") is missing) is just a 6 transcription typo and not what's causing the problem?   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 12 May 2005 20:27:48 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>& Subject: Re: BACKUP A:[...]*.* B:[...]C Message-ID: <1115954868.447894.103470@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: C > I'm sure it is a known bug that BACKUP A:[...]*.* B:[...] doesn't  behave= > as expected if B: is not a real device but rather B = C[D.]  [concealed].+ > I think this has been around for a while.  > ' > Is there any chance it will be fixed?  > E > What are other instances when, from a user point of view, B doesn't F > behave the same as C[D.]?  One that I can think of is that one can't do> > DEFINE E B:[F.] if B is defined as above.  Are there others?    B I meant the backup a:[...] b:[...], etc., works for me. The second% thing, define e b:[f.] does not work.      Others?   ,     BACKUP /IMAGE rooted_device: output-spec   does not work.   ------------------------------    Date: 12 May 2005 20:24:37 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>& Subject: Re: BACKUP A:[...]*.* B:[...]B Message-ID: <1115954677.032543.18590@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: C > I'm sure it is a known bug that BACKUP A:[...]*.* B:[...] doesn't  behave= > as expected if B: is not a real device but rather B = C[D.]  [concealed].+ > I think this has been around for a while.  > ' > Is there any chance it will be fixed?  > E > What are other instances when, from a user point of view, B doesn't F > behave the same as C[D.]?  One that I can think of is that one can't do> > DEFINE E B:[F.] if B is defined as above.  Are there others?  5 Works for me. Can you please demonstrate the problem?    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 23:05:54 -0400 . From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnopt@teksavvy.com>, Subject: Re: DECterm oddity (mangled output), Message-ID: <42841987.35003F1F@teksavvy.com>  F After extensive investigation which involved a reboot of a VMS machineJ (how traumatic !), I have found the triggering condition. A Spam message !   Its subject contains:   ; 453C414E 354C4224 3E435345 3C532020   S<ESC>$BL5NA<E 000070 <  243E4353 453C3030 30303142 283E4353 SC>(B10000<ESC>$ 000080<  245F2447 24732437 4D47242C 4A5F3142 B1_J,$GM7$s$G$_$ 000090<  20202020 42283E43 53453C2A 21262468 h$&!*<ESC>(B     0000A0  H (the above is output from the SEARCH command of the indexed file sent toQ an output file and then DUMPED, so the control characters are shows as menmonics)     D Below is a dump of a file created from allin1 by writing to file the symbol containing the subject.  ; 30303031 42281B41 4E354C42 241B0029 )..$BL5NA.(B1000 000000 <  47247324 374D4724 2C4A5F31 42241B30 0.$B1_J,$GM7$s$G 000010<  0000FFFF 0042281B 2A212624 68245F24 $_$h$&!*.(B..... 000020<  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000030    H Below is a set host/log of the relevant data sent by allin1 on node veloG and captured with set host/log on node bike. (and using search again to " convert unprintables to mnemonics)  P No.  Folder       Title                    Author       Modified    Status<ESC>[P 5H<ESC>[m<SO>qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqP qqqqqqqqqqqqq<ESC>[6;2H<ESC>[m<SI>><ESC>[6;4H1    <ESC>[6;9HWASTEBASKET<ESC>[6;2P 2H<ESC>$BL5NA<ESC>(B10000<ESC>$B1_J,$<ESC>[6;47Hinfo        <ESC>[6;60H10-May-20 05<ESC>[6;72HREAD     E And a subsequent SHOW TERM back at DCL from allin1 is interesting: on A the screen, the display is mangled, but the log shows a perfectly  formatted show term output.    ------------------------------    Date: 12 May 2005 20:01:20 -0700 From: elementyl@hotmail.com 1 Subject: Re: DUMP /ASCII - Request for Guy Peleg? A Message-ID: <1115953280.753293.5540@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Hein wrote:  > [...] : > open (FILE,"<$file") or die "Failed to open file $file"; > binmode FILE; [...]   G While this should default to raw, with the default 5.6.1 installation I G tried this on this missed the record control bytes in the variable file  I tried it on.   James    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 21:53:11 -0500 3 From: "Christopher Smith" <csmith@stu.parkland.edu> S Subject: Re: INFO-VAX 2005.262Re: Powerstorm graphics w/ VMS -- and OpenGL, anyone? 7 Message-ID: <1115952791.dfd60fccsmith@stu.parkland.edu>   L Well, it was worth a shot.  They seem very nice cards from the specs, but I=8  can't be bothered to run NT on something to find out ;)  L I guess the next question is, what's the best route for good (PCI) 3d perfo=J rmance on VMS -- if there is one?  Otherwise, what's a good 24-bit frameb=J uffer.  I've got an 8-bit board in there now, and it works, but it's some= what offensive to my eye.   & Elsa Gloria Synergy keeps coming up...   Chris   # Date: Wed, 11 May 2005 10:22:21 GMT * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>  ( VMS does not support those cards. Sorry.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 19:47:50 -0500 , From: "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@NOSPAMarrl.net># Subject: Re: Letters to the new CEO 0 Message-ID: <4-6dnefmdPKvZB7fRVn-tw@comcast.com>  I How about getting back to the original poster's question of sending Mark  B Hurd VMS centric email and perhaps start a new thread on printers.   Dave...   0 "GreyCloud" <cumulus@mist.com> wrote in message " news:4282CD70.BA1A2FF7@mist.com... > norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:  >>@ >> GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com> wrote on 05/11/2005 02:35:03 PM: >> >> > John Smith wrote: >> > >$ >> > > norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:L >> > > > "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@NOSPAMarrl.net> wrote on 05/10/2005 09:53:34 >> > > > PM: >> > > >L >> > > >> I wrote to Mark Hurd about VMS a few weeks ago via the HP web site
 >> > > >> at: 	 >> > > >> E >> > > >>     http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/execteam/email/hurd/index.html 	 >> > > >>  >> > > >C >> > > > I have been having an issue with HP services, and in utter  >> > > > frustration I posted K >> > > > a note there last week, more about losing this customer because of I >> > > > business practices, but hitting the high spots of my issue as an  >> > > > example.  >> > > >J >> > > > I got a response from "Mission Control" asking for details on the >> > > > specific issue I >> > > > and I sent that along - and I have continued to persue the issue  >> > > > through what G >> > > > is supposed to be the normal channel as well - and it is still  >> > > > unresolved. >> > > >I >> > > > I never got a sense that the any notice was taken of the broader  >> > > > problem, viz., I >> > > > we are less and less likely to do business with HP every time we  >> > > > encounter them. >> > > >1 >> > > > I did not get a personal(ized) response.  >> > >H >> > > See what happens if you complain about their printers and ink. I 
 >> > > wonder  >> how. >> > > responsive they'll be in that instance. >> > > >> >A >> > Very poor in my experience.  I just purchased a new 7310 all A >> > in one printer from HP and the install CD for an old windows = >> > box that they list on the outside of the box for various < >> > versions of windows failed to install... it hung.  I've@ >> > called their support line, which is in India, and could not; >> > understand him.  I then went on line for their support A >> > services with a live chat and still no resolution.  This has  >> > lasted for two months now.  >>H >> Merely anecdotal evidence...you must be doing something wrong....  ;) > > > I wish I had done something wrong.  Seems to work okay under > OS X tho.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 19:55:40 -0600 " From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com># Subject: Re: Letters to the new CEO ( Message-ID: <4284091C.B9200151@mist.com>   Dave Gudewicz wrote: > J > How about getting back to the original poster's question of sending MarkD > Hurd VMS centric email and perhaps start a new thread on printers. >   : Sure, as long as I don't have to go thru India to speak to him. :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 12:59:22 -0700 4 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com>C Subject: Moving bookmarks from Firefox to Secure Web Browser on VMS % Message-ID: <1115927930.818541@smirk>   1 Before I upgraded a Windows box from Netscape 7.0 2 to Firefox 1.0, I was able to export the bookmarks7 from Netscape and simply copy the file to a VMS system.  It simply worked.   6 But with Firefox, the exported file does not work with6 CSWB on VMS.   I have tried a number of things: simply6 copying the file (with and without fixing the carriage3 control), using the "Import" function in CSWB, etc.   5 Has anyone else run up against this problem, and more + importantly, has anyone found a fix for it?    Thanks,  Alan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 14:32:09 -0400 * From: "Marty O'Connor" <moconnor@dvfs.com>4 Subject: Re: OT: Only slightly off-shore programming+ Message-ID: <3ehlo1F335ekU1@individual.net>   6 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message % news:3ehfm0F35o06U2@individual.net... - > In article <3ehak3F34gf2U1@individual.net>, . > "Marty O'Connor" <moconnor@dvfs.com> writes: >> >>K >> I still have my High School graduation present - a 40 scale Picket slide H >> rule - and it was well used for many years. I bring it out once in a  >> whileF >> to show it off but haven't given it serious use since the late 70's > F > My good one is a Picket as well.  Cost me $60.00 back in 1969 and inE > those days that was real money. (Hint, it was over one months pay!) " > I never regreted the investment.  H Mine cost my Mother $70 dollars in 1970 and that too was well worth the  investment.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 18:46:25 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) 4 Subject: Re: OT: Only slightly off-shore programming2 Message-ID: <5wNge.5304$Sm7.1500@news.cpqcorp.net>  , In article <3ehfm0F35o06U2@individual.net>, , bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:    N >My good [slide rule] is a Picket as well.  Cost me $60.00 back in 1969 and inD >those days that was real money. (Hint, it was over one months pay!)  H What the heck job were you working???  In 1969, any job that required a C slide rule would have paid at least 5-10 times more than $60/month! F I earned more than $100/week from summer jobs in 1966 and 67, and that( job surely did NOT require a slide rule!   --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------   Date: 12 May 2005 19:16:13 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)4 Subject: Re: OT: Only slightly off-shore programming+ Message-ID: <3ehobsF36nv3U2@individual.net>   2 In article <5wNge.5304$Sm7.1500@news.cpqcorp.net>,6 	hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) writes:. > In article <3ehfm0F35o06U2@individual.net>, . > bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:   > O >>My good [slide rule] is a Picket as well.  Cost me $60.00 back in 1969 and in E >>those days that was real money. (Hint, it was over one months pay!)  > J > What the heck job were you working???  In 1969, any job that required a E > slide rule would have paid at least 5-10 times more than $60/month! H > I earned more than $100/week from summer jobs in 1966 and 67, and that* > job surely did NOT require a slide rule!  H My job didn't require a slide rule.  I was a private in the army earningG about $47.00 a month.  I was also hoping to go to engineering school at F some point to become an electrical engineer (which never happened, butD that's another story).  Computers were pretty much non-existant so IG saw this as a good and necessary investment. (I bought it in the PX and H I am certain it would have cost considerably more in the outside world.)  + Times were certainly different then........    bill    --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 20:04:01 -0600 " From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>4 Subject: Re: OT: Only slightly off-shore programming( Message-ID: <42840B11.666FF2AC@mist.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote: > 2 > In article <118711fjgph2ic3@corp.supernews.com>,3 >         Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  > > GreyCloud wrote: > > A > >> Bill was at his Seabeck summer home for a week wondering how = > >> to increase sales of windows and how to get LongHorn out = > >> faster.  I've heard over the grapevine that he isn't all ? > >> that happy with the new graduates these days.  Hard to say ! > >> what is really going on tho. > > >> But I do know that a lot of companies are trying to drive> > >> down wages or even attempting to eliminate pension funds.$ > >> United Airlines is one of them. > > F > > Well, not in the order presented, pensions (defined benefit) are aD > > terrible idea.  The company is saying, in the future, we will doF > > 'whatever'.  That assumes the company has a future.  It's like theL > > warranties, and then the store/business isn't around when you need them. > > J > > Defined contribution is a much better idea.  Once committed, the moneyI > > is yours, and is not dependant upon the employer.  Much better if you K > > change jobs also.  I guess one argument for defined benefit is employee @ > > retention, but the other side of that is employer retention. > > J > > Gates has only himself to blame for the lack of new graduates that canK > > be of use to him.  When I went to school, I learned to write and toggle E > > in a bootstrap program.  Now all they learn is to insert a CD.  I F > > learned about how things worked, from the inside, not how to use aJ > > mouse.  When you dumb down the users of computers, that finds it's way5 > > into education, and the spiral feeds upon itself.  > > G > > And now billy boy wants to abandon his original environment, and go # > > elsewhere to again wreck havoc.  > > L > > Ok, maybe I'm just an old fart railing against the changes I see.  But IK > > do believe that some things are being dumbed down, for various reasons.  > D > Well, speaking as an academic this time (and as one who just spentE > a half hour this morning discussing lack of CS enrollments with the D > Dean) dumbing down isn't the biggest problem.  The biggest problemI > right now is analysts who count the number of high school Linux weenies G > as "unemployed IT professionals".  This has led to a statistical lack E > of meaningful employment in the IT field which has led to a serious G > drop in the number of competent IT people available.  One would think G > that this would drive the salaries up but that doesn't seem to be the D > case.  Instead, it has driven employers to seek employees overseasD > while IT professionals back here end out looking for other trades.E > And it's going to get worse before it starts getting better.  As CS C > enrollments drop budgets get cut resulting in smaller departments 6 > resulting in less enrollments resulting in.......... > G > Of course, if you look, there are still good jobs to be found.  There G > are even some that can not be filled either overseas or by an H1. :-) D > As much fun as academia is, I have begun giving serious thought toF > going back to the real world, even at my age.  I still have at least" > one more good decade left in me. >    Ah!  To be young again!    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 20:02:39 -0600 " From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>4 Subject: Re: OT: Only slightly off-shore programming( Message-ID: <42840ABF.C0C516B1@mist.com>   Dave Froble wrote: >  > GreyCloud wrote: > @ > > Bill was at his Seabeck summer home for a week wondering how< > > to increase sales of windows and how to get LongHorn out< > > faster.  I've heard over the grapevine that he isn't all> > > that happy with the new graduates these days.  Hard to say  > > what is really going on tho.= > > But I do know that a lot of companies are trying to drive = > > down wages or even attempting to eliminate pension funds. # > > United Airlines is one of them.  > D > Well, not in the order presented, pensions (defined benefit) are aB > terrible idea.  The company is saying, in the future, we will doD > 'whatever'.  That assumes the company has a future.  It's like theJ > warranties, and then the store/business isn't around when you need them. > H > Defined contribution is a much better idea.  Once committed, the moneyG > is yours, and is not dependant upon the employer.  Much better if you I > change jobs also.  I guess one argument for defined benefit is employee > > retention, but the other side of that is employer retention. >   3 In the beginning, that was the idea... to keep good 
 employees.8 But somehow, big corps. like IBM are changing that.  The< problem is, in the earlier days, you were promised a pension3 if you stayed and everyone believed it by example.  : Unfortunately, the retirees are gonna get screwed and have no recourse.  H > Gates has only himself to blame for the lack of new graduates that canI > be of use to him.  When I went to school, I learned to write and toggle C > in a bootstrap program.  Now all they learn is to insert a CD.  I D > learned about how things worked, from the inside, not how to use aH > mouse.  When you dumb down the users of computers, that finds it's way3 > into education, and the spiral feeds upon itself.  >   9 Very true indeed.  I spent most of my time working on old < analog computers, ( and getting bit once in a while on 400hz; power), and had to reason out every last calculation during  troubleshooting.  E > And now billy boy wants to abandon his original environment, and go ! > elsewhere to again wreck havoc.  > J > Ok, maybe I'm just an old fart railing against the changes I see.  But II > do believe that some things are being dumbed down, for various reasons.  >   : I see it as well.  A neighbor kid took the new math in the9 80s and couldn't do any math.  He had a hard time reading 9 too, which wasn't the case when I went thru school.  If a ; kid failed back then he was set back a year to do the class + over again.  They won't do that these days.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 20:14:24 -0600 " From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>4 Subject: Re: OT: Only slightly off-shore programming( Message-ID: <42840D80.9E24F89C@mist.com>  
 leslie wrote:  > % > GreyCloud (cumulus@mist.com) wrote: = > : But I do know that a lot of companies are trying to drive  > : down wages > : H >    http://www.globalpolicy.org/globaliz/econ/2004/0110williampfaff.htm9 >    In a Shrinking World, Wages Seek the Lowest Level...  > L >   "...Ricardo, however, had a second theory, which he called the "iron lawH >    of wages." You do not hear much about the iron law, in part becauseH >    you wouldn't want to hear about it, and also because experience has7 >    seemed to prove it untrue. But times are changing.  > I >    The iron law of wages is also simple and logical. It says that wages F >    will tend to stabilize at or about subsistence level. That seemedJ >    inevitable to Ricardo, since while workers are necessary, and so haveK >    to be kept alive, they have no hope of any better treatment since they J >    are infinitely available, replaceable, and generally interchangeable. > C > : or even attempting to eliminate pension funds.  United Airlines  > : is one of them.  > M >   http://www.forbes.com/business/services/2005/05/11/cx_da_0511topnews.html $ >   The End Of Pensions - Forbes.com >   ; Sad state of affairs.  Looks like the die has been cast for 9 other companies to reneg on thier promised pensions.  I'm ; not sure exactly how this will impact the economy or how it : will affect the currently working peoples attitude towards< the economy.  Possibly only one way to stem this brutal tide; of corporate greed is for one massive united union strike.   But even that has downsides. Scary times indeed!    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 20:15:34 -0600 " From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>4 Subject: Re: OT: Only slightly off-shore programming( Message-ID: <42840DC6.1FEB7A92@mist.com>   David B Sneddon wrote: > 0 > david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk was overheard to say:m > > In article <1115861495.136533.56160@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:  > >  > >>GreyCloud wrote: > >> > >>>leslie wrote: > >>> ( > >>>>John Smith (a@nonymous.com) wrote:G > >>>>: http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/4/28/170632.shtml  > >>>>: 8 > >>>>: Foreign Workers Coming to a Cruise Ship Near You > >>	 > >>[...]  > >>? > >>>It looks like the claims of "dumbing down America" appears  > >>>to be true. > >> > >>I > >>I've recently encountered people who can't do the simplest arithmetic : > >>problems in their heads: 12*105, 5*60, 600/30. Sheesh! > >> > >  > > > > > At the risk of exposing my age - The calculator generation > >  > > David Webb > @ > How about exposing your age by admitting you know how to use a
 > slide rule? < > (I trained as a teacher way back and was absolutely amazed> > watching people use calculators and getting absolute rubbish< > answers and not knowing that they were absolute rubbish...A > they had no idea about how to "guess" what might be reasonable)  >   3 Hehehe... I've still got my old K&E and a couple of 	 Picketts.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 13:46:04 -0500 * From: Michael Clark <MClark@Nemschoff.com>Y Subject: RE: Re: OT: Only slightly off-shore programming - Bayesian Filter	 detected spam A Message-ID: <3A0A94E82B68C64D9412D3CA3B32D6A68C05BD@EMAILSERVER3>   - > In article <3ehak3F34gf2U1@individual.net>, . > "Marty O'Connor" <moconnor@dvfs.com> writes: >> >>K >> I still have my High School graduation present - a 40 scale Picket slide H >> rule - and it was well used for many years. I bring it out once in a  >> whileF >> to show it off but haven't given it serious use since the late 70's > F > My good one is a Picket as well.  Cost me $60.00 back in 1969 and inE > those days that was real money. (Hint, it was over one months pay!) " > I never regreted the investment.  F I have never heard of these things.  No idea what you guys are talking about.G I might have been raised with a calculator but I am still am to do math  without H one.  I wouldnt blame the technology for the education problems, I would blame J the teachers that allow calculators to be used for testing purposes on low level math.     A CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This electronic transmission, including all L attachments, is directed in confidence solely to the person(s) to whom it isL addressed, or an authorized recipient, and may not otherwise be distributed,L copied or disclosed. The contents of the transmission may also be subject toJ intellectual property rights and all such rights are expressly claimed andG are not waived. If you have received this transmission in error, please H notify the sender immediately by return electronic transmission and thenH immediately delete this transmission, including all attachments, without* copying, distributing or disclosing same.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 15:16:47 -0400 * From: "Marty O'Connor" <moconnor@dvfs.com>Y Subject: Re: Re: OT: Only slightly off-shore programming - Bayesian Filter	 detected spam + Message-ID: <3ehobsF3610mU1@individual.net>   8 "Michael Clark" <MClark@Nemschoff.com> wrote in message ; news:3A0A94E82B68C64D9412D3CA3B32D6A68C05BD@EMAILSERVER3... . >> In article <3ehak3F34gf2U1@individual.net>,/ >> "Marty O'Connor" <moconnor@dvfs.com> writes:  >>>  >>> L >>> I still have my High School graduation present - a 40 scale Picket slideH >>> rule - and it was well used for many years. I bring it out once in a	 >>> while G >>> to show it off but haven't given it serious use since the late 70's  >>G >> My good one is a Picket as well.  Cost me $60.00 back in 1969 and inTF >> those days that was real money. (Hint, it was over one months pay!)# >> I never regreted the investment.P >[H > I have never heard of these things.  No idea what you guys are talking > about.I > I might have been raised with a calculator but I am still am to do mathr	 > withoutiJ > one.  I wouldnt blame the technology for the education problems, I would > blameCL > the teachers that allow calculators to be used for testing purposes on low
 > level math.r  M A slide rule never replaced the need to know and do math (especially in your lM head). This device was around for several hundred years. To use a slide rule  H effectively you had to really know your math. The slide rule was a true M aide. Also the Slide rule could only give you a 3 to 4 digit accuracy so you lI were never tempted to give answers that are more accurate than the input s0 data (as is done with calculators all the time).  C I remember one job while I was in college that was in a statistics cG department. I was the one who did all the mundane number crunching for gG everyone in the department. I used an HP desktop calculator with X-Y-Z  J displayed and magnetic cards to record data on. Very progressive for 1973 J era. after 6 months to this I got back to school and found that my mental J math was very rusty. From then on I try never to do simple (2 or 3 digit) 7 math with a calculator but use the one between my ears.0   Marty    ------------------------------    Date: 12 May 2005 14:06:22 -0700 From: tomarsin2015@comcast.net Subject: Replacement monitorshC Message-ID: <1115931982.094795.174580@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>6  F With DEC monitors coming harder and harder to come by, I was wonderingE whats a good replacement monitor for the QDSS board set.I recall thatu0 at one time Sony and NEC multisync monitors with< the RGB connectors were good replacements. But they are alsoC becoming hard to find. Would the RGB to VGA converters do the job??06 Also I'm trying to get a VAXconsole up and working andF the VR201 is almost dead, so does anybody out there have a green/amber" VR201 for cheap or even the VR241. thanks phillipT   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 15:38:49 -0700c# From: Tom Crabtree <spam@sucks.com>o! Subject: Re: Replacement monitorsm/ Message-ID: <N9GdnbOeUNYmRx7fRVn-iw@sunset.net>e   tomarsin2015@comcast.net wrote:iH > With DEC monitors coming harder and harder to come by, I was wonderingG > whats a good replacement monitor for the QDSS board set.I recall thatt2 > at one time Sony and NEC multisync monitors with> > the RGB connectors were good replacements. But they are alsoE > becoming hard to find. Would the RGB to VGA converters do the job??l8 > Also I'm trying to get a VAXconsole up and working andH > the VR201 is almost dead, so does anybody out there have a green/amber$ > VR201 for cheap or even the VR241. > thanks	 > phillipr > D Replacement monitors with RGB inputs are getting hard and harder to I find.  NEC, Sony & Viewsonic used to make 19" monitors with RGB, but NEC sI appears to have stopped adding them completely and Sony & Viewsonic only  H provides them on their 21" and larger (even then, read the spec sheets, 7 if it's not mentioned specifically, it won't be there).e  Iiyama has a few, here's a link:4 http://www.iiyama.us/default.asp?SID=&NAV=236&PCAT=1  F Sony has a line of color & BW Audio Visual monitors (think Television B studios) with RGB inputs, but they are expensive and hard to find.  H Check your phone book for used computer and computer recycle companies. E You'd be *really_really* surprised at what shows up in those places. aG There's one such place about an hours drive from my home, I drive down  G at least once a month just to see what interesting junk they've gotten aG in.  I've gotten some bargains, VAX stations for $5, QLogic SCSI cards  E for $10, etc.  Every time I go in I make it a point to talk with the $F owner (if he's there), we have a standing agreement that he holds DEC  gear for me.   TomC   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 22:53:24 GMT * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>! Subject: Re: Replacement monitors 1 Message-ID: <E7Rge.5328$uy7.821@news.cpqcorp.net>    Uh.  How about a used DS15?o  + <tomarsin2015@comcast.net> wrote in message = news:1115931982.094795.174580@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com....H > With DEC monitors coming harder and harder to come by, I was wonderingG > whats a good replacement monitor for the QDSS board set.I recall thatc2 > at one time Sony and NEC multisync monitors with> > the RGB connectors were good replacements. But they are alsoE > becoming hard to find. Would the RGB to VGA converters do the job??$8 > Also I'm trying to get a VAXconsole up and working andH > the VR201 is almost dead, so does anybody out there have a green/amber$ > VR201 for cheap or even the VR241. > thanks	 > phillip  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 23:34:34 -0400 . From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnopt@teksavvy.com>! Subject: Re: Replacement monitorsp, Message-ID: <4284203E.94751D5F@teksavvy.com>   tomarsin2015@comcast.net wrote:yG > whats a good replacement monitor for the QDSS board set.I recall thatn2 > at one time Sony and NEC multisync monitors with, > the RGB connectors were good replacements.  F What you need is a VGA monitor with ability to sunc on green, and also- the proper screen size and refresh frequency.c  @ I have NEC Multisync LCD, and they adapt to just about anything.  A You just need to make a cable converter from the DB15 plug on the  computer to the VGA plug.n  E the VGA plug you can find at Radio Shack easily, (15 pins in 3 rows),:= but the old DC15 (15 pins in 2 rows) seem harder to find now.-  / http://home.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/vax/vs3khw.htmlo  6 provides the inouts for the DEC DB15 video connectors.? You can easilty find the VGA monitor plug standard with google.s  E You just need to connect the ringht pins. No need for singal changes.3   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 14:48:07 -0700t% From: DeanW <dean.woodward@gmail.com>p Subject: Re: seti on itanium? 6 Message-ID: <3f119ada05051214487c3206e@mail.gmail.com>  3 On 5/12/05, John Hayes <hayes1966@yahoo.com> wrote:r7 > "Wayne Sewell" <wayne@tachysoft.com> wrote in messagec+ > news:00A4373A.39474CD1.5@tachysoft.com...  > >nK > > I have been a seti@home participant since 2000 and have done 34000 worki
 > > units. > > F > > I would like to run it on my itanium system, but there is still noF > > executable. And I really need to switch to boinc for alpha anyway,L > > since that's where they are going.  There is no alpha executable for th= at.r  B The real issue is porting BOINC etc. to something that works underF VMS. I had a brief conversation with someone about it a while ago, and% (IIRC) he mentioned that the issue is F that BOINC likes to use fork() and/or some other constructs that don't& work well in our favorite environment.   ------------------------------    Date: 12 May 2005 20:27:37 -0700 From: elementyl@hotmail.com  Subject: Re: Strange PINGing ?C Message-ID: <1115954857.310860.102340@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>t  A The -t option is for timeout, so I would guess ping was patiently- waiting as specified.    ------------------------------   Date: 12 May 05 14:08:35 EDT) From: cook@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (George Cook).+ Subject: Re: The continuing saga of the VAXt! Message-ID: <ro$hpzQiKTxi@wvnvms>E  V In article <3ehhfoF36mfaU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:B > With many thanks to Island who provided me with the needed SC008, > for my systems I move on to the next step. > H > I hooked them up according to what I intrpolated from a picture in theD > Clustering Handbook.  Still "sh dev" on the VAX shows nothing. :-( > F > Can someone give me a quick rundown on how I should have cabled this" > so I can be sure I did it right? > F > First, I only did Port A,  is that OK or must I do all of the cablesG > connected to something?  (I was planning on a minimum system and then?1 > add redundancy after I had the basics working.)/  A Some interfaces (e.g., the CIPCA) have problems if both ports are/ not connected.  E > Basicly, I ran a cable from the VAX Port with the arrow pointed outyG > top the block on the SC008 labled transmit.  I ran the cable from the.G > VAX port with the arrow ointed in to the block labled receive.  I did I > the same from the HSJ.  The HSJ is offering 2 CDROMs and one stripeset.A  E Yes, transmit cables connect to arrow pointed out, and receive cabless go to arrow pointed in.4  ' > The VAX doesn't seem to see anything.h > B > Suggestions please?  (then we can get back to arguing about user# > interfaces, jobs and Bill Gates.)o  8 Do you have the SC008 Modularity jumper between 1 and 4?  D Have you tried the SHOW CLUSTER/CON command?  It can provide a great deal of useful information.a  E Is the VAX sysgen parameter VAXCLUSTER set to either 1 or 2 (I forgetpB if zero will work if you just need access to storage controllers)?B Is the sysgen parameter ALLOCLASS set to the disk allocation classF of the HSJ?  Have you run AUGOGEN since the CI hardware was installed?     George Cook  WVNETo   ------------------------------   Date: 12 May 2005 19:08:51 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)+ Subject: Re: The continuing saga of the VAX-+ Message-ID: <3ehnu1F36nv3U1@individual.net>A  ! In article <ro$hpzQiKTxi@wvnvms>,:, 	cook@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (George Cook) writes:X > In article <3ehhfoF36mfaU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:C >> With many thanks to Island who provided me with the needed SC008:- >> for my systems I move on to the next step.n >> rI >> I hooked them up according to what I intrpolated from a picture in theuE >> Clustering Handbook.  Still "sh dev" on the VAX shows nothing. :-(h >> eG >> Can someone give me a quick rundown on how I should have cabled thise# >> so I can be sure I did it right?  >>  G >> First, I only did Port A,  is that OK or must I do all of the cableseH >> connected to something?  (I was planning on a minimum system and then2 >> add redundancy after I had the basics working.) > C > Some interfaces (e.g., the CIPCA) have problems if both ports are: > not connected. > F >> Basicly, I ran a cable from the VAX Port with the arrow pointed outH >> top the block on the SC008 labled transmit.  I ran the cable from theH >> VAX port with the arrow ointed in to the block labled receive.  I didJ >> the same from the HSJ.  The HSJ is offering 2 CDROMs and one stripeset. > G > Yes, transmit cables connect to arrow pointed out, and receive cables  > go to arrow pointed in.B > ( >> The VAX doesn't seem to see anything. >>  C >> Suggestions please?  (then we can get back to arguing about userR$ >> interfaces, jobs and Bill Gates.) > : > Do you have the SC008 Modularity jumper between 1 and 4?  D This was it!!!  I can now see the CDROMS and the disk.  Next step is* do an initial install just to see it work.   > F > Have you tried the SHOW CLUSTER/CON command?  It can provide a great > deal of useful information.B > G > Is the VAX sysgen parameter VAXCLUSTER set to either 1 or 2 (I forget.D > if zero will work if you just need access to storage controllers)?D > Is the sysgen parameter ALLOCLASS set to the disk allocation classH > of the HSJ?  Have you run AUGOGEN since the CI hardware was installed?  C Obviously, this is stuff I need to save for once I have VMS runningl
 on it. :-)  A Once again, c.o.v comnes to the rescue.  We may argue about a lotqA of stuff (some of it pretty silly when you really look at it) butqB when it comes time for solving serious problems this is definitely
 the place.  C Thank you very much.  Time to go back into the computer room with a- CD Set. :-);   bill   -- nJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   m   ------------------------------    Date: 12 May 2005 16:25:19 -0700! From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com2- Subject: Winning slogan for the License PlatewC Message-ID: <1115940319.664213.174500@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>$   Dear News group,  C I just sent the following out, if you want to see the license platei? just send me email or my bet is Ken Farmer will post the draft.s   Dear Distribution Lists,  E Based on your input (550 votes) on www.openvms.org the winning sloganaF for the new OpenVMS license plate is "When downtime is not an option". Please see the attached PDF.  : Thank you very much for your input, this poll is now over.  G The license plates will be available at the Boot Camp, Technical Updater< Days and the HP Technical Forum in New Orleans in September.   Warm regards as always.T   Suee   ------------------------------    Date: 12 May 2005 14:12:20 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>K Subject: Re: Your VMS Sig (was Re: OT: Only slightly off-shore programming) C Message-ID: <1115932340.499277.117080@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>h   John Smith wrote:e > AEF wrote: > > John Smith wrote:gD > >> http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/4/28/170632.shtml [...]. > >m > >> --eG > >> OpenVMS - The never advertised operating system with the dwindling- > >> ISV base. > >h > > E > > Please condiser adding something positive to this. E.g.: The most 7 > > secure and reliable OS that is never advertised ...f >K >7 >n > Do you mean: > F > OpenVMS - The operating system that all advertised operating systems want toV > be.r     Good.d   >a > or would you prefer, >iC > OpenVMS - The best operating system HP owns but never advertises.      Good.C     >A > or >.5 > OpenVMS - The best operating system on the planet*.o% > * not available in stores near you.0     Not as good.   >> > or >t > OpenVMS - Never Hurd of it.a    ! Where's the positive in this one?G     >  > 9 > All worthy candidates for an official HP license plate.P   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 21:32:32 -0400t# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com>>C Subject: [OT]: Dell posts excellent results - wait and see about HPx, Message-ID: <gLidnZBBRr8unhnfRVn-2g@igs.net>  7 Let's see how HP's engine of drag does when it reports.>    : http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050512/ap_on_bi_ge/earns_dell    ) Dell Posts 28 Percent Rise in 1Q Earnings>$ By MATT SLAGLE, AP Technology Writer  H Dell Inc. said first-quarter earnings rose 28 percent from a year ago onL strong international sales, and forecast higher revenue growth in the second quarter.K Dell, the world's largest direct-sale computer vendor, said net income grew>J to $934 million, or 37 cents per share, in the three months ended April 29E from $731 million, or 28 cents per share, a year ago. Revenue rose 16aB percent to $13.39 billion from $11.54 billion last year, driven byB international growth and sales of strategic products and services.  K The results, announced after markets closed Thursday, were in line with theaK forecast of analysts surveyed by Thomson Financial for earnings of 37 centsb and sales of $13.42 billion.  I Dell said sales outside the U.S. increased 21 percent from a year ago and>I grew to 42 percent of the company's total revenue. Worldwide revenue from K storage systems increased 49 percent and sales of mobility products grew 22x percent from a year ago.  I Revenue in Europe was up 20 percent, while the company's Asia-Pacific andtJ Japanese markets saw 20 percent growth. That compares to 16 percent in theE United States, which CEO Kevin Rollins described as a healthy but nots explosive market.   @ "The U.S. had an excellent quarter, we're quite happy," he said.  H For the first time, Round Rock-based Dell broke out its revenue into sixJ product categories, reflecting the company's push to expand beyond desktop# PCs and corporate computer systems.-  C Revenue from desktops, which still account for 40 percent of Dell'scK business, fell 5 percent from the previous quarter but still grew 6 percent. year-over-year to $5.3 billion.c  F The mobility category, which includes laptops and handheld organizers,C jumped 22 percent from a year ago to $3.3 billion. The services andaL peripherals category, which includes printers and televisions, accounted for< $2 billion in revenue, up 29 percent from the previous year.  F Rollins said Dell has maintained profitability despite a shifting techJ landscape that has seen executive shake-ups at Hewlett-Packard Co. and theF purchase of International Business Machines Corp.'s personal computing/ division by Lenovo, China's top computer maker.e  G "It's not a market phenomenon but a winners or losers phenomenon," saidyD Rollins. "This environment is ideal for our model and plays into the strength of our strategy."  J Last month, he announced during the company's annual analysts meeting thatG he expects Dell to become a company with annual sales of $80 billion in  another three to four years.  G One analyst wasn't suprised by Dell's seemingly unending profitability, G which has been driven by grabbing market share from rivals and measured00 expansion into lucrative new product categories.  B "It's an execution machine, that's all there is to it," said BarryE Jaruzelski, management consultant at Booz Allen Hamilton. "They're ansL operations company, and they stay incredibly true to their operating model."  H The company forecast second-quarter earnings per share of 37 cents to 39G cents, and predicted that revenue will rise 16 percent to 18 percent to ? between $13.6 billion and $13.8 billion. Analysts are expectingeG second-quarter profit of 38 cents per share on sales of $13.64 billion.i2 Second quarter earnings will be announced Aug. 11.  K Dell said it spent $2 billion in the first quarter to buy back more than 50aG million shares. In the past year, the company has reduced the number ofd+ outstanding shares by more than 80 million.o  L Dell shares rose 7 cents to close at $36.61 on the Nasdaq Stock Market, nearL the midpoint of its 52-week range. In after hours trading, Dell shares added$ 95 cents, or 2.6 percent, to $36.61.         --L OpenVMS - The never advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.265 ************************