1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 17 May 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 273       Contents: Re: BACKUP A:[...]*.* B:[...]  Re: BACKUP A:[...]*.* B:[...]  Re: BACKUP A:[...]*.* B:[...] * Re: BACKUP A:[...]*.* B:[...] missing root, CMD CDU 720/M Unibus to SCSI board available" Disaster Recovery World convention, Re: DO HLP HLD BRK PRN and other keymappings, Re: DO HLP HLD BRK PRN and other keymappings, Re: DO HLP HLD BRK PRN and other keymappings( RE: DUMP /ASCII - Request for Guy Peleg?/ How do I migrate my systemdisk to a bigger one? 3 Re: How do I migrate my systemdisk to a bigger one? 3 Re: How do I migrate my systemdisk to a bigger one? 3 Re: How do I migrate my systemdisk to a bigger one? 3 Re: How do I migrate my systemdisk to a bigger one? 3 Re: How do I migrate my systemdisk to a bigger one? 3 Re: How do I migrate my systemdisk to a bigger one? 3 Re: How do I migrate my systemdisk to a bigger one? 3 Re: How do I migrate my systemdisk to a bigger one? 3 Re: How do I migrate my systemdisk to a bigger one? 3 Re: How do I migrate my systemdisk to a bigger one? 3 Re: How do I migrate my systemdisk to a bigger one? 3 Re: How do I migrate my systemdisk to a bigger one? 3 Re: How do I migrate my systemdisk to a bigger one? 3 Re: How do I migrate my systemdisk to a bigger one? 3 Re: How do I migrate my systemdisk to a bigger one? 3 Re: How do I migrate my systemdisk to a bigger one? 3 Re: How do I migrate my systemdisk to a bigger one? 3 Re: How do I migrate my systemdisk to a bigger one? + Re: HP break up makes sense - Merrill Lynch + RE: HP break up makes sense - Merrill Lynch + Re: HP break up makes sense - Merrill Lynch + Re: HP break up makes sense - Merrill Lynch + Re: HP break up makes sense - Merrill Lynch + Re: HP break up makes sense - Merrill Lynch + Re: HP break up makes sense - Merrill Lynch ? Perl and binmode (was Re: DUMP /ASCII - Request for Guy Peleg?) " Re: The continuing saga of the VAX VMS for DS20l/SC209 VNC is great? -and- EDT over VNC -- Gold key doesn't work   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 14:11:02 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>& Subject: Re: BACKUP A:[...]*.* B:[...]+ Message-ID: <4288F046.31385BC2@comcast.net>   
 AEF wrote: >  > Rudolf Wingert wrote: 
 > > Hello, > > B > > if you have defined the logical correct (C:[d.]), did you also	 > specify B > > all the translation attribute (AFAIK: CONCEALED and TERMINAL). > >  > > Best regards R. Wingert  > D > You don't need TERMINAL. In fact, if the disk you use is a logicalA > name, like DISK$SCRATCH, you have to NOT use terminal. That is,  > @ >     $ DEFINE ROOTDISK DISK$SCRATCH:[SYSTEM.] /TRAN=(CONC,TERM) >  > will not work.   ...but this will:   C $ DEFINE ROOTDISK 'f$getdvi( "DISK$SCRATCH", "alldevnam")'[SYSTEM.]  /TRAN=(CONC,TERM)   2 ...assuming SYSTEM.DIR exists in the volume's MFD.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 14:15:23 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>& Subject: Re: BACKUP A:[...]*.* B:[...]+ Message-ID: <4288F14A.DF4FABAA@comcast.net>   / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:  > > > In article <42841714.314986B7@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera% > <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:  > I > > > What are other instances when, from a user point of view, B doesn't M > > > behave the same as C[D.]?  One that I can think of is that one can't do B > > > DEFINE E B:[F.] if B is defined as above.  Are there others? > > K > > May I assume that "C[D.]" (apparently, colon(":") is missing) is just a : > > transcription typo and not what's causing the problem? >  > Yes.  H Well, here's what happened on VMS V7.2-2... (Apologies for the confusing wraps)   DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ sh def    USER$ROOT:[WORK]$ DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ sho log user$root7    "USER$ROOT" = "DKA0:[DDACHTERA.]" (LNM$JOB_80D92E00)  DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ dir   Directory USER$ROOT:[WORK]  > CDKIT.SAV;1            59220/59220    24-MAR-2003 19:20:49.75  (RWED,RWED,RE,)   $ Total of 1 file, 59220/59220 blocks.4 DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ back/log [...]*.* [-]work.sav/sav4 %BACKUP-S-COPIED, copied USER$ROOT:[WORK]CDKIT.SAV;1, DJAS01::DDACHTERA$ back/list [-]work.sav/sav Listing of save set(s)   Save set:          WORK.SAV  Written by:        DDACHTERA    " UIC:               [000030,000001]* Date:              16-MAY-2005 14:08:12.014 Command:           BACK/LOG [...]*.* [-]WORK.SAV/SAV- Operating system:  OpenVMS Alpha version V7.2  BACKUP version:    AXP72R001 CPU ID register:   80000000   Written on:        _DJAS01$DKA0: Block size:        32256 Group size:        10  Buffer count:      247  > [WORK]CDKIT.SAV;1                                       59220  24-MAR-2003 19:20  :49    Total of 1 file, 59220 blocks  End of save set   A As other posters have noted, however, /IMAGE will change BACKUP's C behavior. So, you'll need to find another strategy for this if your G intent is to maintain aliases and such under a path which uses a rooted 
 logical name.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 16 May 2005 15:05:20 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>& Subject: Re: BACKUP A:[...]*.* B:[...]C Message-ID: <1116281120.465591.316740@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    David J Dachtera wrote:  > AEF wrote: > >  > > Rudolf Wingert wrote:  > > > Hello, > > > D > > > if you have defined the logical correct (C:[d.]), did you also > > specify D > > > all the translation attribute (AFAIK: CONCEALED and TERMINAL). > > >  > > > Best regards R. Wingert  > > F > > You don't need TERMINAL. In fact, if the disk you use is a logicalC > > name, like DISK$SCRATCH, you have to NOT use terminal. That is,  > > B > >     $ DEFINE ROOTDISK DISK$SCRATCH:[SYSTEM.] /TRAN=(CONC,TERM) > >  > > will not work. >  > ...but this will:  > E > $ DEFINE ROOTDISK 'f$getdvi( "DISK$SCRATCH", "alldevnam")'[SYSTEM.]  > /TRAN=(CONC,TERM)  > 4 > ...assuming SYSTEM.DIR exists in the volume's MFD. >   G My point was that /TRAN=TERM is not needed for rooted disks. It's often E a good idea to add it for other reasons, but it is not needed to make  the rooted disk part work.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 May 2005 15:11:41 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>3 Subject: Re: BACKUP A:[...]*.* B:[...] missing root B Message-ID: <1116281501.000430.44230@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   Dane Maslen wrote:- > norm.raphael@metso.com wrote in message ...  > > F > >Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net> wrote on 05/13/2005 08:25:13 AM: > > E > >> On 5/12/05 10:06 AM, in article d602e3$ejj$2@online.de, "Phillip & > >> Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply"! <helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de> 	 > >wrote:  > >>@ > >> > I'm sure it is a known bug that BACKUP A:[...]*.* B:[...] doesn't 	 > >behave B > >> > as expected if B: is not a real device but rather B = C[D.] > >[concealed]. B > >> Even with you logical name translation of B being C:[E.], the
 syntax you > >are< > >> looking for is: BACKUP A:[000000...]*.*;* B:[000000...] > > F > >$ BACKUP A:[*...]*.*;* B:[*...]  !? to avoid a redundant 000000.dir ?  > G > Let me start by commenting that it's about five years since I did any = VMS system management, so take anything I say with a pinch of  > salt.  That said...  > ( > I seem to recall that the trouble with > ! > $ BACKUP A:[*...]*.*;* B:[*...]  > & > is that it misses files in [000000]. > E > Returning, however, to Phillip's original question, in all my years @ of managing VMS systems I never noticed differences in behaviour	 > between  > ! > $ BACKUP A:[*...]*.*;* B:[*...]  >  > when A and B are devices and > ! > $ BACKUP A:[*...]*.*;* B:[*...]  > - > when B (or A or both) are defined as C:[D.]  >   B It only seems to make a difference in the particular case in whichE Phillip gave an specific example (DCL code): If you're SET DEFAULT to G rooted_disk:[000000] and use [.dir...whatever] as your output-spec, the > create-directory part screws up by adding an extra 000000.dir.    E > I do, however, have a vague recollection that it might be important @ to ensure that C is the physical device and that the translationF > attributes include TERMINAL as well as CONCEALED.  On the other hand< it might just be that I used to do it that way for no better5 > reason than it seemed like a good idea at the time.  > 
 > Dane Maslen     E It used to be that it only worked with C being a physical device. Not A any more. You can make C a logical name that points to a physical 9 device, but you then have to drop the TERMINAL attribute.   F The CONCEALED attribute is only needed to allow the logical name to beB a parameter for the SET DEFAULT command. The generalized file-specD disk:[rootdir.][dir]name.typ;vers works fine as a file-spec in otherG commands. (There may be some exceptions, but I can't think of any right  now.)    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 21:45:18 GMT A From: "Colin Butcher" <colin_DOT.butcher_AT@xdelta_DOT.co_DOT.uk> 5 Subject: CMD CDU 720/M Unibus to SCSI board available ; Message-ID: <Ov8ie.33213$G8.701@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>   H I have a CMD CDU 720/M Unibus to SCSI interface. New, boxed, with manualK (dated 1993) and cable. Anyone interested? Anyone interested enough to give H me money (or suitable liquid alternative)? All shipping costs etc. to be* borne by taker (I'm based in Bristol, UK).   --     Hope this helps, Colin. ) colin DOT butcher AT xdelta DOT co DOT uk E It's not mine, but I like this definition: Legacy = stuff that works.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 16:56:58 -0400 # From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> + Subject: Disaster Recovery World convention , Message-ID: <14-dnXjjuIO-lBTfRVn-qg@igs.net>   www.drii.org/calendar.cfm  September 18-21, San Diego  1 I wonder if VMS will be featured at the HP booth.    Any bets it won't be?      --L OpenVMS - The never advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 13:59:36 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>5 Subject: Re: DO HLP HLD BRK PRN and other keymappings + Message-ID: <4288ED97.3DFB5617@comcast.net>    Thomas Dickey wrote: > G > In comp.terminals David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote:  > H > > If you have access to a VMS system, look at SYS$SYSTEM:SMGTERMS.TXT.L > > There in, you'll find descriptions of the escape sequence transmitted byH > > the active function keys. (Roughly equivalent to the termcap file in: > > UN*X-land, but must be "compiled" into TERMTABLE.EXE.) > J > It's analogous, but contains less information (at least I've not seen itH > describing the color escape sequences, and iirc, is rather limited forC > the line-drawing).  It does, as you note, list the function-keys.   > Look again, especially at the VT525 entry and other ANSI-colorG compatible entries. The item names are english-language and not cryptic 9 abbreviations, so it may a little getting used to, but...    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 19:22:32 -0000 / From: Thomas Dickey <dickey@saltmine.radix.net> 5 Subject: Re: DO HLP HLD BRK PRN and other keymappings 0 Message-ID: <118hsnomnh7kq18@corp.supernews.com>  E In comp.terminals David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote:  > Thomas Dickey wrote: >>  H >> In comp.terminals David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote: >>  I >> > If you have access to a VMS system, look at SYS$SYSTEM:SMGTERMS.TXT. M >> > There in, you'll find descriptions of the escape sequence transmitted by I >> > the active function keys. (Roughly equivalent to the termcap file in ; >> > UN*X-land, but must be "compiled" into TERMTABLE.EXE.)  >>  K >> It's analogous, but contains less information (at least I've not seen it I >> describing the color escape sequences, and iirc, is rather limited for D >> the line-drawing).  It does, as you note, list the function-keys.  @ > Look again, especially at the VT525 entry and other ANSI-colorI > compatible entries. The item names are english-language and not cryptic ; > abbreviations, so it may a little getting used to, but...   D I see what it says, but it's lacking (saying something is ANSI-colorG doesn't cover the range of possibilities - it only says that it follows ( whatever model DEC used for ANSI color).  J For instance, I'm told that DEC's color model doesn't clear the backgroundI with the current color.  That means that the other half (all of the newer > ones ;-) of the terminals that do won't work with smgterms.txt   --   Thomas E. Dickey http://invisible-island.net  ftp://invisible-island.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 14:58:45 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>5 Subject: Re: DO HLP HLD BRK PRN and other keymappings + Message-ID: <4288FB75.F28080C6@comcast.net>    Thomas Dickey wrote: > G > In comp.terminals David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote:  > > Thomas Dickey wrote: > >>J > >> In comp.terminals David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote: > >>K > >> > If you have access to a VMS system, look at SYS$SYSTEM:SMGTERMS.TXT. O > >> > There in, you'll find descriptions of the escape sequence transmitted by K > >> > the active function keys. (Roughly equivalent to the termcap file in = > >> > UN*X-land, but must be "compiled" into TERMTABLE.EXE.)  > >>M > >> It's analogous, but contains less information (at least I've not seen it K > >> describing the color escape sequences, and iirc, is rather limited for F > >> the line-drawing).  It does, as you note, list the function-keys. > B > > Look again, especially at the VT525 entry and other ANSI-colorK > > compatible entries. The item names are english-language and not cryptic = > > abbreviations, so it may a little getting used to, but...  > F > I see what it says, but it's lacking (saying something is ANSI-colorI > doesn't cover the range of possibilities - it only says that it follows * > whatever model DEC used for ANSI color).  H Umm, the ANSI model? (ANSI = American National Standards Institute whichA predates Bill Gates (the current "standards" dictator) and DEC by  several decades.)   L > For instance, I'm told that DEC's color model doesn't clear the backgroundK > with the current color.  That means that the other half (all of the newer @ > ones ;-) of the terminals that do won't work with smgterms.txt  F ...except that these commands are executed by the terminal in response> to receipt of the associated escape sequence, not by the host.  0 So, the behavior will be terminal/type-specific.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 15:10:44 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> 1 Subject: RE: DUMP /ASCII - Request for Guy Peleg? R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB5ED398@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----2 > From: Hein [mailto:hein.nomail@hp.nomail.com]=20 > Sent: May 16, 2005 8:15 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 3 > Subject: Re: DUMP /ASCII - Request for Guy Peleg?  >=20 >=20? > "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow> wrote in message ; > news:DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-td0zRqyp9TY7@dave2_os2.home.ours... H > > On Thu, 12 May 2005 13:21:58 UTC, "Hein" <hein.nomail@hp.nomail.com>
 > > wrote: > : : > > > ------------- dump.p ------------------------------- > :  >=205 > > A reason to install Perl? Again? I need to check. ' > > Too busy doing other  stuff though.  >=20H > You will not regret. Best I recall (I never looked back :-), the basic? > installation was simple as they come (even I could do it),=20  > without other  > stuff to be loaded first . >=20B > Specially if you like 'coding' in DCL and are able to code up=20
 > a C program A > when needed then you'll find Perl is in the middle somewhere=20  > there, readyB > for most any modest (and large) data processing jobs. Not too=20 > worry, forB > many jobs DCL will remain your weapon of choice (notably with=20 > F$GETJPI and > F$GETQUI involved).  >=20@ > If your workstation is a PC, then you may want to pull over=20 > 'Active State  > Perl' for there as well..  >=20 > Hein.  >=20  ( Re: DCL, Perl and scripting languages ..  C Interesting note on the growing popularity and support enhancements  using scripting languages.  G http://news.com.com/2102-1007_3-5705448.html?tag=3Dst.util.print (May =  13,  2005)        Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------    Date: 16 May 2005 19:55:57 +0200( From: Andreas Davour <ante@update.uu.se>8 Subject: How do I migrate my systemdisk to a bigger one?4 Message-ID: <cs9oebbf42a.fsf@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE>  E I haven't got very much space for hard disks for my simulated VAX and D decided to try to migrate to a bigger disk, learning how it would be done on a physical VAX.   F I have mounted a RA82 and after booting my VMS7.2 CD I tried to backup, my DUA0: to the bigger RA82 DUA1: like this:  @ BACKUP/RECORD/NOALIAS/VERIFY/IGNORE=INTERLOCK/IGNORE=NOBACKUP - 
  DUA0: DUA1:    G When I reboot and try to use the DUA1 disk as bootdisk it just stops. I F get the boot promt and after BOOT/R5  it just dies and dumps me in the
 simh console.   " Any ideas on what I'm doing wrong?   /andreas   --  A A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. ' Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?  A: Top-posting. ; Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?    ------------------------------    Date: 16 May 2005 11:11:26 -0700) From: "Ken Robinson" <kenrbnsn@rbnsn.com> < Subject: Re: How do I migrate my systemdisk to a bigger one?C Message-ID: <1116267086.911644.156730@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Andreas Davour wrote: G > I haven't got very much space for hard disks for my simulated VAX and F > decided to try to migrate to a bigger disk, learning how it would be > done on a physical VAX.  > A > I have mounted a RA82 and after booting my VMS7.2 CD I tried to  backup. > my DUA0: to the bigger RA82 DUA1: like this: > A > BACKUP/RECORD/NOALIAS/VERIFY/IGNORE=INTERLOCK/IGNORE=NOBACKUP -  >  DUA0: DUA1: > G > When I reboot and try to use the DUA1 disk as bootdisk it just stops.  I D > get the boot promt and after BOOT/R5  it just dies and dumps me in the  > simh console.    You need to do an image backup:   ! $ backup/image/verify dua0: dua1:   F You shouldn't use any "/ignore" qualifiers. Interlock is meanless whenD booted off a CD. Unless you set files that are needed to "nobackup",E removing "nobackup" will backup the file headers, allocate the space,  without backing up the data.  G If this still doesn't work, you may have to use the writeboot procedure  to (re)write the boot block.   Ken    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 18:19:03 GMT % From: Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com> < Subject: Re: How do I migrate my systemdisk to a bigger one?D Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0505161214270.1483@localhost.localdomain>  * On Mon, 16 May 2005, Andreas Davour wrote:  B > I have mounted a RA82 and after booting my VMS7.2 CD I tried to 5 > backup my DUA0: to the bigger RA82 DUA1: like this:  > A > BACKUP/RECORD/NOALIAS/VERIFY/IGNORE=INTERLOCK/IGNORE=NOBACKUP - 
 > DUA0: DUA1:  > A > When I reboot and try to use the DUA1 disk as bootdisk it just  G > stops. I get the boot promt and after BOOT/R5 it just dies and dumps   > me in the simh console.   1 You should have booted standalone backup and then   ! $ BACKUP/IMAGE/VERIFY DUA0: DUA1:   ) If you don't have standalone backup, then    $ @SYS$UPDATE:STABACKIT   B and install standalone backup on DUA0:.  Then boot from root F (I  think).   C The longer answer involves deciding how DUA1 should be initialized  D (how many headers to initially allocate, how many max files, etc.),  initializing it, and then   . $ BACKUP/IMAGE/VERIFY/NOINITIALIZE DUA0: DUA1:   hth      --    B Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o mA G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (866)438-2101 (voice) toll free! 6 Edmonton                         (780)438-9343 (voice)5                                   (780)437-3367 (FAX) 2                                   http://gmcl.com/   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 18:21:21 GMT % From: Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com> < Subject: Re: How do I migrate my systemdisk to a bigger one?D Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0505161220070.1483@localhost.localdomain>  % On Mon, 16 May 2005, Rob Brown wrote:   , > On Mon, 16 May 2005, Andreas Davour wrote: > C >> I have mounted a RA82 and after booting my VMS7.2 CD I tried to  6 >> backup my DUA0: to the bigger RA82 DUA1: like this: >>  C >> BACKUP/RECORD/NOALIAS/VERIFY/IGNORE=INTERLOCK/IGNORE=NOBACKUP -   >> DUA0: DUA1: >>  B >> When I reboot and try to use the DUA1 disk as bootdisk it just B >> stops. I get the boot promt and after BOOT/R5 it just dies and   >> dumps me in the simh console. > 3 > You should have booted standalone backup and then   F Oops.  I didn't notice that you had booted the CD.  In that case, you  don't need standalone backup.   # > $ BACKUP/IMAGE/VERIFY DUA0: DUA1:   " Is still the correct command line.     --    B Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o mA G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (866)438-2101 (voice) toll free! 6 Edmonton                         (780)438-9343 (voice)6                                    (780)437-3367 (FAX)3                                    http://gmcl.com/    ------------------------------    Date: 16 May 2005 20:25:57 +0200( From: Andreas Davour <ante@update.uu.se>< Subject: Re: How do I migrate my systemdisk to a bigger one?4 Message-ID: <cs9k6lzf2oa.fsf@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE>  ' Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com> writes:   ' > On Mon, 16 May 2005, Rob Brown wrote:  > . > > On Mon, 16 May 2005, Andreas Davour wrote: > > D > >> I have mounted a RA82 and after booting my VMS7.2 CD I tried to8 > >> backup my DUA0: to the bigger RA82 DUA1: like this:D > >> BACKUP/RECORD/NOALIAS/VERIFY/IGNORE=INTERLOCK/IGNORE=NOBACKUP - > >> DUA0: DUA1:C > >> When I reboot and try to use the DUA1 disk as bootdisk it just C > >> stops. I get the boot promt and after BOOT/R5 it just dies and " > >> dumps me in the simh console. > > 5 > > You should have booted standalone backup and then  > G > Oops.  I didn't notice that you had booted the CD.  In that case, you  > don't need standalone backup.  > % > > $ BACKUP/IMAGE/VERIFY DUA0: DUA1:  > $ > Is still the correct command line.  F Thanks to all who answered! I added all the IGNOREs after trying to doH it while running the system from DUA0. Using standalone backup from CD I guess it might not be needed.    /Andreas   --  A A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. ' Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?  A: Top-posting. ; Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?    ------------------------------    Date: 16 May 2005 20:32:42 +0200( From: Andreas Davour <ante@update.uu.se>< Subject: Re: How do I migrate my systemdisk to a bigger one?4 Message-ID: <cs9fywnf2d1.fsf@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE>  + "Ken Robinson" <kenrbnsn@rbnsn.com> writes:    > Andreas Davour wrote: I > > I haven't got very much space for hard disks for my simulated VAX and H > > decided to try to migrate to a bigger disk, learning how it would be > > done on a physical VAX.  > > C > > I have mounted a RA82 and after booting my VMS7.2 CD I tried to  > backup0 > > my DUA0: to the bigger RA82 DUA1: like this: > > C > > BACKUP/RECORD/NOALIAS/VERIFY/IGNORE=INTERLOCK/IGNORE=NOBACKUP -  > >  DUA0: DUA1: > > I > > When I reboot and try to use the DUA1 disk as bootdisk it just stops.  > I F > > get the boot promt and after BOOT/R5  it just dies and dumps me in > the  > > simh console.  > ! > You need to do an image backup:  > # > $ backup/image/verify dua0: dua1:  > H > You shouldn't use any "/ignore" qualifiers. Interlock is meanless whenF > booted off a CD. Unless you set files that are needed to "nobackup",G > removing "nobackup" will backup the file headers, allocate the space,  > without backing up the data. > I > If this still doesn't work, you may have to use the writeboot procedure  > to (re)write the boot block.  H Considering I think that my commandline, although a bit "overweight", isG basically sound I must have a look at that "writeboot" procedure. Where D do I find it? (and is there any VMS equivalance to the unix "find"?)   /Andreas   --  A A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. ' Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?  A: Top-posting. ; Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 15:01:29 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> < Subject: Re: How do I migrate my systemdisk to a bigger one?/ Message-ID: <118hrejt9kh3ad@corp.supernews.com>    Andreas Davour wrote: - > "Ken Robinson" <kenrbnsn@rbnsn.com> writes:  >  >  >>Andreas Davour wrote:  >>H >>>I haven't got very much space for hard disks for my simulated VAX andG >>>decided to try to migrate to a bigger disk, learning how it would be  >>>done on a physical VAX. >>> B >>>I have mounted a RA82 and after booting my VMS7.2 CD I tried to >> >>backup >>/ >>>my DUA0: to the bigger RA82 DUA1: like this:  >>> B >>>BACKUP/RECORD/NOALIAS/VERIFY/IGNORE=INTERLOCK/IGNORE=NOBACKUP - >>> DUA0: DUA1:  >>> H >>>When I reboot and try to use the DUA1 disk as bootdisk it just stops. >> >>I  >>E >>>get the boot promt and after BOOT/R5  it just dies and dumps me in  >> >>the  >> >>>simh console. >>! >>You need to do an image backup:  >># >>$ backup/image/verify dua0: dua1:  >>H >>You shouldn't use any "/ignore" qualifiers. Interlock is meanless whenF >>booted off a CD. Unless you set files that are needed to "nobackup",G >>removing "nobackup" will backup the file headers, allocate the space,  >>without backing up the data. >>I >>If this still doesn't work, you may have to use the writeboot procedure  >>to (re)write the boot block. >  > J > Considering I think that my commandline, although a bit "overweight", isI > basically sound I must have a look at that "writeboot" procedure. Where F > do I find it? (and is there any VMS equivalance to the unix "find"?) > 
 > /Andreas >   A I doubt it.  Without serious thought, I'm thinking your files in  H multiple directories were not copied properly.  Could be wrong.  /IMAGE  is the way to replicate a disk.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 19:28:00 GMT % From: Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com> < Subject: Re: How do I migrate my systemdisk to a bigger one?D Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0505161325440.2248@localhost.localdomain>  * On Mon, 16 May 2005, Andreas Davour wrote:  - > "Ken Robinson" <kenrbnsn@rbnsn.com> writes:  >  ... " >> You need to do an image backup: >>$ >> $ backup/image/verify dua0: dua1: >> ... : > Considering I think that my commandline, although a bit > > "overweight", is basically sound I must have a look at that C > "writeboot" procedure. Where do I find it? (and is there any VMS  " > equivalance to the unix "find"?)  E Your commandline is not basically sound.  You did not specify /IMAGE.   D If you want to copy a bootable disk and end up with a bootable disk  you need /IMAGE.     --    B Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o mA G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (866)438-2101 (voice) toll free! 6 Edmonton                         (780)438-9343 (voice)5                                   (780)437-3367 (FAX) 2                                   http://gmcl.com/   ------------------------------   Date: 16 May 2005 19:45:31 GMT/ From: Thierry Dussuet <thierry@dussuet.lugs.ch> < Subject: Re: How do I migrate my systemdisk to a bigger one?0 Message-ID: <slrnd8hu2r.1h2.thierry@MARS.Family>   Hello!  8 On 2005-05-16, Andreas Davour <ante@update.uu.se> wrote:A > If there is not FIND I hope someone could tell me what they use  > instead.    M Whenever I look for something and I'm absolutely not sure where it is, I do a    $ DIR disk:[path...]file*   ) or if you know it's in some subdirectory:    $ DIR [...]file.extension    HTH    Thierry    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 12:45:15 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> < Subject: Re: How do I migrate my systemdisk to a bigger one?( Message-ID: <opsqvvtpy0zgicya@hyrrokkin>  H On 16 May 2005 21:42:18 +0200, Andreas Davour <ante@update.uu.se> wrote:  ) > Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com> writes:  > - >> On Mon, 16 May 2005, Andreas Davour wrote:  >>0 >> > "Ken Robinson" <kenrbnsn@rbnsn.com> writes: >> > >> ...% >> >> You need to do an image backup:  >> >> ' >> >> $ backup/image/verify dua0: dua1:  >> >>  >> ...< >> > Considering I think that my commandline, although a bit@ >> > "overweight", is basically sound I must have a look at thatE >> > "writeboot" procedure. Where do I find it? (and is there any VMS % >> > equivalance to the unix "find"?)  >>H >> Your commandline is not basically sound.  You did not specify /IMAGE. >>F >> If you want to copy a bootable disk and end up with a bootable disk >> you need /IMAGE.  > 5 > Now I have to look at what I posted again. *checks*  > G > Amazing, I thought I had included just about every option that looked ; > fitting. God, I missed the first one I realized I needed!  >  > BTW.A > If there is not FIND I hope someone could tell me what they use 
 > instead.   I usually just use, $ search device:[000000]directory.lis string and 6    LOCATE == "SEARCH ALL$DISKS:[000000]DIRECTORY.LIS " $ locate foo.pli > 
 > /Andreas >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 16:03:34 -0400  From: norm.raphael@metso.com< Subject: Re: How do I migrate my systemdisk to a bigger one?Q Message-ID: <OF36745E0B.7CDA51BD-ON85257003.006E12CF-85257003.006E0809@metso.com>   , $search sys$update:*.com; "writeboot"/wind=03 SYS$COMMON:[SYSUPD]AXPVMS$PCSI_EX_INS_PRODUCT.COM;1 " SYS$COMMON:[SYSUPD]VMSKITBLD.COM;1  2 I'd look in the second one as I searched an Alpha.G There are differences between VAX and Alpha.  You want the VAX version.   ' You need to tell it about VMB.EXE IIRC.     < ante@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE wrote on 05/16/2005 02:32:42 PM:  - > "Ken Robinson" <kenrbnsn@rbnsn.com> writes:  >  > > Andreas Davour wrote: K > > > I haven't got very much space for hard disks for my simulated VAX and J > > > decided to try to migrate to a bigger disk, learning how it would be > > > done on a physical VAX.  > > > E > > > I have mounted a RA82 and after booting my VMS7.2 CD I tried to 
 > > backup2 > > > my DUA0: to the bigger RA82 DUA1: like this: > > > E > > > BACKUP/RECORD/NOALIAS/VERIFY/IGNORE=INTERLOCK/IGNORE=NOBACKUP -  > > >  DUA0: DUA1: > > > K > > > When I reboot and try to use the DUA1 disk as bootdisk it just stops.O > > IeH > > > get the boot promt and after BOOT/R5  it just dies and dumps me in > > the. > > > simh console.] > >:# > > You need to do an image backup:  > > % > > $ backup/image/verify dua0: dua1:  > >DJ > > You shouldn't use any "/ignore" qualifiers. Interlock is meanless whenH > > booted off a CD. Unless you set files that are needed to "nobackup",I > > removing "nobackup" will backup the file headers, allocate the space,S  > > without backing up the data. > >mK > > If this still doesn't work, you may have to use the writeboot procedure   > > to (re)write the boot block. >mJ > Considering I think that my commandline, although a bit "overweight", isI > basically sound I must have a look at that "writeboot" procedure. WhereIF > do I find it? (and is there any VMS equivalance to the unix "find"?) >k
 > /Andreas >e > --C > A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.a) > Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?  > A: Top-posting.t= > Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?    ------------------------------    Date: 16 May 2005 22:05:06 +0200( From: Andreas Davour <ante@update.uu.se>< Subject: Re: How do I migrate my systemdisk to a bigger one?4 Message-ID: <cs93bsney31.fsf@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE>  4 David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:  D > If you insist on not using /IMAGE, you will work long and hard forF > nought. /IMAGE is what takes care of the WRITEBOOT and alias issues.  F So /IMAGE makes alias issues go away? Good thing. I actually thought IH *had* /IMAGE in the commandline I posted. Sometimes when you belive it's9 there it shows up on the screen even if it isn't there...   7 WRITEBOOT issues don't go away, though. I tried to do aa: BACKUP/IMAGE/VERIFY DUAx: DUAy: and it still wouln't boot.  H Now I have located the writeboot.exe, though, and will see if that makes any difference.n   /andreas   -- XA A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.d' Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?- A: Top-posting.-; Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?    ------------------------------    Date: 16 May 2005 21:42:18 +0200( From: Andreas Davour <ante@update.uu.se>< Subject: Re: How do I migrate my systemdisk to a bigger one?4 Message-ID: <cs9br7bez51.fsf@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE>  ' Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com> writes:l  , > On Mon, 16 May 2005, Andreas Davour wrote: > / > > "Ken Robinson" <kenrbnsn@rbnsn.com> writes:g > >R > ...r$ > >> You need to do an image backup: > >>& > >> $ backup/image/verify dua0: dua1: > >> > ...C; > > Considering I think that my commandline, although a bitE? > > "overweight", is basically sound I must have a look at thatlD > > "writeboot" procedure. Where do I find it? (and is there any VMS$ > > equivalance to the unix "find"?) > G > Your commandline is not basically sound.  You did not specify /IMAGE.  > E > If you want to copy a bootable disk and end up with a bootable diskO > you need /IMAGE.  3 Now I have to look at what I posted again. *checks*i  E Amazing, I thought I had included just about every option that lookedn9 fitting. God, I missed the first one I realized I needed!/   BTW.  ? If there is not FIND I hope someone could tell me what they use-	 instead. -   /Andreas   -- oA A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.a' Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?. A: Top-posting.s; Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?r   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 19:49:49 GMTs& From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>< Subject: Re: How do I migrate my systemdisk to a bigger one?1 Message-ID: <xP6ie.5474$ZX3.890@news.cpqcorp.net>e   Andreas Davour wrote:O6 (and is there any VMS equivalance to the unix "find"?)  * DIRECTORY can handle wildcarded pathnames.  ) $ DIRECTORY DKA0:[000000...]*WRITEBOOT*.*]  E However, unlike 'find', you can't select some arbitrary action to be aH performed on the filespec when found.  You can use /OUTPUT to a file or E PIPE to move it along to something else but without an equivalent of CH XARGS, it tends to involve writing some additional DCL command files to C read the input stream and iterate over the potential list of files.C   -- d John Reaganr/ HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leader0 Hewlett-Packard Company2   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 14:53:06 -0500:2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>< Subject: Re: How do I migrate my systemdisk to a bigger one?+ Message-ID: <4288FA22.823663D7@comcast.net>v   Andreas Davour wrote:  > ) > Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com> writes:  > ) > > On Mon, 16 May 2005, Rob Brown wrote:  > > 0 > > > On Mon, 16 May 2005, Andreas Davour wrote: > > >.F > > >> I have mounted a RA82 and after booting my VMS7.2 CD I tried to: > > >> backup my DUA0: to the bigger RA82 DUA1: like this:F > > >> BACKUP/RECORD/NOALIAS/VERIFY/IGNORE=INTERLOCK/IGNORE=NOBACKUP - > > >> DUA0: DUA1:E > > >> When I reboot and try to use the DUA1 disk as bootdisk it just E > > >> stops. I get the boot promt and after BOOT/R5 it just dies andn$ > > >> dumps me in the simh console. > > >,7 > > > You should have booted standalone backup and then' > >eI > > Oops.  I didn't notice that you had booted the CD.  In that case, you ! > > don't need standalone backup.r > > ' > > > $ BACKUP/IMAGE/VERIFY DUA0: DUA1:a > > & > > Is still the correct command line. > H > Thanks to all who answered! I added all the IGNOREs after trying to doJ > it while running the system from DUA0. Using standalone backup from CD I > guess it might not be needed.e  B If you insist on not using /IMAGE, you will work long and hard forD nought. /IMAGE is what takes care of the WRITEBOOT and alias issues.   -- 2 David J Dachtera dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:-" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 20:19:25 GMT % From: Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com> < Subject: Re: How do I migrate my systemdisk to a bigger one?D Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0505161416001.2743@localhost.localdomain>  & On Mon, 16 May 2005, Tom Linden wrote:  J > On 16 May 2005 21:42:18 +0200, Andreas Davour <ante@update.uu.se> wrote: >bB >> If there is not FIND I hope someone could tell me what they use >> instead.S >E > I usually just use. > $ search device:[000000]directory.lis string > and'6 >  LOCATE == "SEARCH ALL$DISKS:[000000]DIRECTORY.LIS " > $ locate foo.pli  G ODS-1 and ODS-2 do not have [000000]directory.lis (at least not in VMS oF 7.1 or earlier).  I don't know about ODS-5 or about newer versions of F VMS.  I suspect that you have some kind of home-grown LOCATE database  manager.     --    B Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o mA G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (866)438-2101 (voice) toll free!l6 Edmonton                         (780)438-9343 (voice)5                                   (780)437-3367 (FAX) 2                                   http://gmcl.com/   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 20:24:28 GMT@% From: Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com> < Subject: Re: How do I migrate my systemdisk to a bigger one?D Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0505161422410.2743@localhost.localdomain>  * On Mon, 16 May 2005, Andreas Davour wrote:  : > WRITEBOOT issues don't go away, though. I tried to do a < > BACKUP/IMAGE/VERIFY DUAx: DUAy: and it still wouln't boot.  ? I have never heard of /IMAGE copy of a bootable disk not being ]7 bootable.  I think something else must have gone wrong.a     -- m  B Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o mA G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (866)438-2101 (voice) toll free! 6 Edmonton                         (780)438-9343 (voice)5                                   (780)437-3367 (FAX) 2                                   http://gmcl.com/   ------------------------------   Date: 16 May 2005 20:35:17 GMT$ From: "Doc." <doc@openvms-rocks.com>< Subject: Re: How do I migrate my systemdisk to a bigger one?7 Message-ID: <Xns9658E67668A7Edcovmsrox@212.100.160.126>*  ( %NEWS-I-NEWMSG, Andreas Davour wrote in + news:cs9fywnf2d1.fsf@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SEk  J > Considering I think that my commandline, although a bit "overweight", isI > basically sound I must have a look at that "writeboot" procedure. WhererF > do I find it? (and is there any VMS equivalance to the unix "find"?)  6 Trust the other posters... You need to be using /IMAGE     Doc. -- cG OpenVMS:     Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems. G http://www.openvms-rocks.com    Deathrow Public-Access OpenVMS Cluster.L   ------------------------------    Date: 16 May 2005 23:23:10 +0200( From: Andreas Davour <ante@update.uu.se>< Subject: Re: How do I migrate my systemdisk to a bigger one?4 Message-ID: <cs9u0l2eugx.fsf@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE>  ' Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com> writes:l  , > On Mon, 16 May 2005, Andreas Davour wrote: > ; > > WRITEBOOT issues don't go away, though. I tried to do ar> > > BACKUP/IMAGE/VERIFY DUAx: DUAy: and it still wouln't boot. > @ > I have never heard of /IMAGE copy of a bootable disk not being9 > bootable.  I think something else must have gone wrong.o  @ Notice that I use simh, and not a physical VAX. It might be the ? cause of troubles. Otherwise it's just me who have mixed up the 5 files I have hooked up to the RQ as a simulated RA82.t  > Anyway, using the WRITEBOOT I now have a bootable image of my  system disk on a RA82!   /andreas   -- 2A A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.i' Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?a A: Top-posting.); Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?v   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 14:17:40 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 4 Subject: Re: HP break up makes sense - Merrill Lynch, Message-ID: <4288E3B4.4B0EEAAB@teksavvy.com>   John Smith wrote:LM > JF, can you sit there with a straight-face and honestly say that the past 4a@ > years of VMS's history have been among its best managed by the > owner-du-jour?  H Yes I can. The last 4 years of VMS management have been the best 4 yearsE of VMS management under the current owner HP.  I am honest and have ai= straight face while saying that. (ok, maybe a slight grin :-)   C I guess expectations were that we'd be happy that HP didn't can VMSI@ outright.  The total absence of mention of VMS during the mergerE pregnancy, as well as Stallard infamous memor lead me to believe that % this was under serious consideration.e  D So, based on the premise that MS was about to be killed, wher we are* today is a great improvement over that :-)  E Just because HP has chosen to hide VMS and not leverage its potentials; doesn't mean that HP as a company needs to be broken apart.   H VMS in fact is a great example of what is wrong at HP. There needs to beE real leadership at the top with vision and courage and respect. Why ?NH because some decisions, such as marketing and expanding VMS may not seemF logical to some (such as Stallard, Winkler et all) and Hurd would needG to put his foot down hard to ensure that the naysayers would comply andd move positively on this.  F If Dell is able to be profitable, then there is no reason HP shoudln'tG be able to.  Someone must put his foot down hard on the PC division andn5 clearly change whatever needs to be change to make HPlE profitable/competitive in the wintel market. If it means ditching the H "channel", and going direct sales, then so be it. But things need to get done, not just discussed.r  E Seems to me that HP knows ho to fix its PC division, but doesn't have/F the guts to go ahead because the changes would be fairly philosophicalC in the way it does business and I think managers only expect slight-C productivity improvemenst to do the trick, and those aren't enough.   N > If you had a 1937 Duesenberg dual-cowl Phaeton and an auto broker approachedM > you with a willing buyer at a price you could live with, would you call thec > broker a scum-sucking leech?  - Has anyone approached HP to buy its PC unit ?e  E Lets face it, its PC unit gives HP great visibility and makes HP looka bigger than it really is.   F A properly managed company would not restrict one of its products from growing and competing.  D HP's problems are due to bad management, not its products portfolio.  M > On the other hand, if somebody purchased individual business units it mightbK > be a fair assumption that they wanted those units for more than the papers% > clips and staplers those units had.   F Or just the patents. Look at Intel with Alpha. It has no intentions of? developping Alpha, but struck deals to obtain its employees andn intellectual property.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 14:29:36 -0400h' From: "Main, Kerry" <kerry.main@hp.com> 4 Subject: RE: HP break up makes sense - Merrill LynchR Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB5ED391@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message------ > From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]=20  > Sent: May 16, 2005 10:55 AMI > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 2 > Subject: HP break up makes sense - Merrill Lynch >=20. >  http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=3D23270 > HP break up "makes sense"n >=205 > Financials Analyst line ahead of tomorrow's results  >=20 >=20/ > By Ambrose McNevin: Monday 16 May 2005, 13:51/ >=20A >  INVESTMENT ANALYST Merrill Lynch said today "We still think=20a > breakup HPC > makes sense but it appears that option is off the table for now.":A > Ahead of Tuesday's financial results (the first quarter with=207 > new boy MarkA > Hurd at the helm) Dow Jones Newswires reported that the Wall=20a > Street firm is@ > telling clients that HP's board "is mistaken if it believes=20 > the company only> > has execution problems" and it should ask itself "In what=20 > businesses shouldV > HP compete?" >=20$ > Merrill is expecting weak quarter. >=20 >=20    C Mmmm... I wonder if this is one of the analyst firms that also told E Gerstner to split up IBM when he first took over .."Lou - you need to-H determine which business you want to compete in and sell of the rest..."   :-)t    
 Kerry Main Senior Consultantt HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660o Fax: 613-591-4477s kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  $ "OpenVMS has always had integrity .. Now, Integrity has OpenVMS .."   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 14:57:52 -0400s' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 4 Subject: Re: HP break up makes sense - Merrill Lynch0 Message-ID: <118hr7v104usef8@corp.supernews.com>   JF Mezei wrote:a  H > If Dell is able to be profitable, then there is no reason HP shoudln'tI > be able to.  Someone must put his foot down hard on the PC division and 7 > clearly change whatever needs to be change to make HPIG > profitable/competitive in the wintel market. If it means ditching thedJ > "channel", and going direct sales, then so be it. But things need to get > done, not just discussed.u  ( Dell is profitableo for various reasons.  7 One of those reasons is that Dell doesn't spend on R&D.m  C This is a problem.  Without R&D, new ideas don't happen.  However, aH buyers will purchase based upon today's technology.  They don't want to ? fund R&D.  If the buyers won't fund R&D, then really, who will?r  E No company that looks to the future can compete with Dell.  However, wE Dell is cutting the throat of most companies who look to the future. w; IBM realized this, and dumped the business.  Several times.e   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road- Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 16:55:00 -0400:# From: "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> 4 Subject: Re: HP break up makes sense - Merrill Lynch, Message-ID: <H5OdnXQsu4AtlRTfRVn-sQ@igs.net>   Main, Kerry wrote: >> -----Original Message-----.+ >> From: John Smith [mailto:a@nonymous.com]  >> Sent: May 16, 2005 10:55 AM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com3 >> Subject: HP break up makes sense - Merrill Lynch  >>- >>  http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=23270s >> HP break up "makes sense" >>6 >> Financials Analyst line ahead of tomorrow's results >> >>0 >> By Ambrose McNevin: Monday 16 May 2005, 13:51 >>? >>  INVESTMENT ANALYST Merrill Lynch said today "We still think0
 >> breakup HPtD >> makes sense but it appears that option is off the table for now."? >> Ahead of Tuesday's financial results (the first quarter with  >> new boy Markt? >> Hurd at the helm) Dow Jones Newswires reported that the Wall  >> Street firm is > >> telling clients that HP's board "is mistaken if it believes >> the company onlyn< >> has execution problems" and it should ask itself "In what >> businesses should >> HP compete?"e >>% >> Merrill is expecting weak quarter.s >> >> >e >aE > Mmmm... I wonder if this is one of the analyst firms that also toldiG > Gerstner to split up IBM when he first took over .."Lou - you need tolA > determine which business you want to compete in and sell of theu
 > rest..."     Kerry,   What's HP *actually* good at?   H To me HP (courtesy of the Compaq acqusition and VMS and NSK) is great at business-critical computing.  I It's neither here nor there in *quality* with its unix and PC businesses.o  J The consulting business is ok but nothing to write home about - definitely middle-of-the-pack.a  J And it's grossly overvalued and wites poor drivers to boot in the printingI business - which is gradually being eroded from below by Dell/Lexmark ands1 others in the most lucrative end of the business.S  J HP was also great in instrumentation and measurement equipment, but that's long gone (Agilent).     --F OpenVMS - The never advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 17:05:04 -0400o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 4 Subject: Re: HP break up makes sense - Merrill Lynch, Message-ID: <42890AE5.3BEB8442@teksavvy.com>   "Main, Kerry" wrote:  nE > Mmmm... I wonder if this is one of the analyst firms that also toldeG > Gerstner to split up IBM when he first took over .."Lou - you need to J > determine which business you want to compete in and sell of the rest..."  H The process if splitting up IBM had alredy begun before Gestner got in. ? IBM had already hired firms to find names for each new compnay,?H investment bankers to start to do all the corporate legal stuff etc etc.  H Gerstner put a stop to it before it was too late, and saw how much money0 those outside firms were making on that project.  C Similarly, when investment bankers hired by Curly approached IBM to:G pitch Compaq to IBM, Gerstner saw how the investment bankers wanted the G commission and fees to execute a buyout/merger wven though the purchase1" of Compaq made no financial sense.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 17:07:57 -0400f- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>i4 Subject: Re: HP break up makes sense - Merrill Lynch, Message-ID: <42890B91.DBE94E8F@teksavvy.com>   Dave Froble wrote:D > This is a problem.  Without R&D, new ideas don't happen.  However,I > buyers will purchase based upon today's technology.  They don't want toBA > fund R&D.  If the buyers won't fund R&D, then really, who will?A  C Good point. However, DELL is simply an execution arms for Intel andB+ Microsoft. They are the ones doing the R&D.   D When building industry standard stuff, R&D is actually not desirableA since you don't want to be too different from your peers and thuse labeled "incompatible".o   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 17:49:50 -0400g- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>a4 Subject: Re: HP break up makes sense - Merrill Lynch, Message-ID: <4289155F.15C628A8@teksavvy.com>   John Smith wrote:  > What's HP *actually* good at?e > J > To me HP (courtesy of the Compaq acqusition and VMS and NSK) is great at > business-critical computing.  F No it is not. It may have products which have the potential to make itE great in business critical computing, but it is only pushing HP-UX onn$ IA64 and that isn't "great" product.  D HP is living off its name. It used to be equal to "durable, quality,G solidly built". Consider its instrumentation, calculators. That is what/ vuilt HP's reputation.  G But now, HP is migrating to consumer grade products, including consumeruG TV sets. It has sold off its instrumentation (HP's core business in the D past, a bit like The Hudson's Bay corp sold off its fur business andH remote stores which were the cornerstore of the Husdon's Bay Crop in itsH early days). Its products don't have any special quality image. They are just products.  L > The consulting business is ok but nothing to write home about - definitely > middle-of-the-pack.o  F The HP name does not have an image in the consulting business. It is aF mismash of its own very small, almagamated with Tandem and Digital viaH Compaq. And because HP's marketying focuses on commodity consumer goods,H it becomes harder to build an image of top quality , industrial quality  products and services.  G It is possible to have both consumer and business. IBM had succeeded in-E using its high quality business image to enter the consumer market in C the early 1980s with its IBM PC. And its products retain sufficient-6 quality image to maintain IBM's image of high quality.  % HP doesn't seem to have managed that.j   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 19:23:48 -0500.6 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler>H Subject: Perl and binmode (was Re: DUMP /ASCII - Request for Guy Peleg?)D Message-ID: <craigberry-72C20F.19234716052005@news.isp.giganews.com>  2 In article <nm2he.5355$CV7.2822@news.cpqcorp.net>,*  "Hein" <hein.nomail@hp.nomail.com> wrote:  * > <elementyl@hotmail.com> wrote in message= > news:1115953280.753293.5540@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...U > > Hein wrote:s > > > [...]>> > > > open (FILE,"<$file") or die "Failed to open file $file"; > > > binmode FILE; [...]o > >.K > > While this should default to raw, with the default 5.6.1 installation I K > > tried this on this missed the record control bytes in the variable file  > E > You are absolutely right. I glanced over my test output too quicklym > yesterday.K > I now see it tried to 'help' by replacing the nice variable length record % > structur to lf terminated nonsense.3) > Changing read to sysread is even worse. M > Adding an explicit discipline (layer) ":raw" (the default?!) to binmode did)# > not help either (on  perl v5.6.0) 0 > I may have to check out VMS::Stdio  after all.  G The standard binmode() doesn't actually do anything on recent versions nD of Perl on VMS for the following reasons (or to be more precise, it F affects only Perl's internal I/O layers that sit on top of CRTL calls ( that in turn sit on top of RMS calls).    G A Unix or Windows application that calls binmode() generally wants one DD thing and one thing only from it, namely to get a stream of data in H which line ending characters are not interpreted as record boundaries.  E This can be thought of as a special instance of treating metadata as -H data, though in the contexts where it is applicable, there really isn't $ any metadata in the file, only data.  G RMS's ctx=bin is a much bigger hammer simply because there are so many o@ kinds of metadata on VMS, and in most cases you do not want the G metadata.  Usually getting the control characters from a VFC file, for eF example, is the wrong thing to do.  Just because a unixy program does D not want a data byte corresponding to the ASCII value of a linefeed G character treated as a record boundary does not mean that it does want iH the VMS metadata, which it almost certainly won't know what to do with. H  The CRTL has generally already made a decision about what data to feed B back to the program, so binmode() for its traditional purposes is ! seldom or never necessary on VMS.t  D So, what if you do want to get the VMS-specific metadata in all its G glory?  You can pass "ctx=bin" to VMS::Stdio::vmssysopen() just as you e? would the the various CRTL functions that support optional RMS bD arguments.  Or you can call VMS::Stdio::binmode() afterwards, which  reopens the file with ctx=bin.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 14:21:17 -0500o2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>+ Subject: Re: The continuing saga of the VAXh+ Message-ID: <4288F2AC.BA647FC5@comcast.net>    Bill Gunshannon wrote: >  > OK, on to the next problem.D > A > I can now see devices.  But apparently, not boot from them. :-): > F > Here is some output.  I have repeated this about a half dozen times.4 > It sure isn't like booting one of ny VS3100's  :-) >  > P00>>> sh dev . > polling for units on cixcd0, slot 3, xmi0...3 > dua1.2.0.3.0       $1$DUA1 (HSJ002)          HSX1n3 > dua41.2.0.3.0      $1$DKA41 (HSJ002)        RRD46  > P00>>> boot dua41.2.0.3.0p > Initializing...  > H > F   E   D   C   B   A   9   8   7   6   5   4   3   2   1   0   NODE #E >                             A   M   .   .   .   P   P   P   P   TYPaE >                             o   +   .   .   .   +   +   +   +   ST1eE >                             .   .   .   .   .   E   E   E   B   BPDoE >                             o   +   .   .   .   +   +   +   +   ST2oE >                             .   .   .   .   .   E   E   E   B   BPDeE >                             +   +   .   .   .   +   +   +   +   ST3oE >                             .   .   .   .   .   E   E   E   B   BPDu > J >     +   .   .   .   .   .   +   .   .   .   .   +   .   +       C0 XMI +D > .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   C1D > .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   C2D > .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   C3 > E >                             .  A0   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   ILViG >                             . 512   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   512MBp > J > Firmware Rev = S4.4-4857      SROM Rev = S3.1-0      SYS SN = NI525N9935 > P00>>> > Booting...) > Connecting to boot device dua41.2.0.3.0  > Created device: dua41.2.0.3.0s1 > block 0 of dua41.2.0.3.0 is  a valid boot block & > reading 87 blocks from dua41.2.0.3.0 > bootstrap code read in > base = 154000, start = 200" > boot device name = dua41.2.0.3.0 > boot flags  0,2,0p > boot device type = 20b > controller ID = a  > unit number = 41
 > node ID = 2I
 > channel = 0E
 > slot = 3
 > hose = 0  > jumping to bootstrap at 154200 > ' > -------------------------------------b > 2 > And there it sits.  Until I hit ^P.  Then I get. > - > CPU:0 Console entry reason: ^P or Node Halt  > + > Entry PC: 00154E07     Entry PSL:041F0200d >  > P00>>> ^Ca > P00>>> sh deva. > polling for units on cixcd0, slot 3, xmi0... > Resetting IO subsystem...e > P00>>>   sh deva. > polling for units on cixcd0, slot 3, xmi0...3 > dua1.2.0.3.0       $1$DUA1 (HSJ002)          HSX1k3 > dua41.2.0.3.0      $1$DKA41 (HSJ002)        RRD46    WHOA, THERE!  D "dua41.2.0.3.0" shows up as "$1$DKA41 (HSJ002)"? Is that a typo or a corruption?   D I'm assuming here that you have some type of SBB containing an RRD46> plugged into a disk shelf connected to an HSJ of some vintage.  : Can you show us the output of these commands from the HSJ?   SHOW UNITS FULLt SHOW STORAGE FULL  SHOW DEVICE FULL   -- i David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:t" http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/a  " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/i   Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 16 May 2005 11:55:19 -0700; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com>, Subject: VMS for DS20l/SC20rC Message-ID: <1116269719.196600.120350@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>y  F I don't suppose there is any way that VMS would boot on a DS20L?  It'sC not listed as supported on the SPD nor the SC20 information.  I was:A just wondering if it were close enough to a DS20E that the properu& hardware layer files would still work.   ------------------------------    Date: 16 May 2005 16:31:58 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>B Subject: VNC is great? -and- EDT over VNC -- Gold key doesn't workC Message-ID: <1116286318.656826.246010@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>a  G I searched cov archives for VNC and was surprised to see so much praiseiF of it. I have it installed on my PC at work and at home and it is veryB slow and screen updates often need the help of extra clicks of the< mouse. So what makes it so great? (Well, besides the price.)  E Also, the EDT GOLD key doesn't work when I use VNC to go from a Win98 A (at home) to my PC (W2K) at work. I use SmarTerm on my work PC to & connect to the VAX systems via Telnet.  G (VNC v4-something at home (I'll check and post), and VNC 3.3.6 (server)  at work.   What's the deal?  Thanks.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.273 ************************ a bigger one? and definitely not to be taken seriously under any circumstances
garden gnome
http://www.2000cn.com.au/~willow

~~faeries are able to fly because they take themselves lightly~
But, Still... <ollie.sandcastle@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:b19kdr$11aj77$1@ID-73971.news.dfncis.de...
> War's going to happen, so, I reckon we might as well make a decent party
out
> of it? How's everyone fixed?
>
> OTS
>
>


^~00001063:0000004474:007905:From: melhadden@prodigy.net (Merkle)
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Subject: Re: Any Colonials out there?
Date: 29 Jan 2003 14:48:03 -0800
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Does anyone know which tax rate is best for the CoM?
^~00003282:0000331384:016469:From: ebubmfexhg@zuyaeco.org (Nicole Roseborough)
Subject: U.S. Hands off Iraq! All Foreign Troops Out of the Mideast
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U.S. Hands off Iraq! All Foreign Troops Out of the Mideast

Working people and all opponents of U.S. imperialism should join in
condemning the latest round of U.S.-led provocations against Iraq. It
is an important time to organize forums, teach-ins, and other events to
tell the truth about who the real terrorists are.
From the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, to the genocidal war
in Vietnam and carpet-bombing of Cambodia, to the slaughter of tens of
thousands of fleeing Iraqi civilians and soldiers in the 1991 Gulf W