1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 30 May 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 299       Contents: Re: ABC problem with disk  Re: ABC problem with disk  Re: ABC problem with disk C Re: Are the sys$icc_* services being replaced/rewritten for Itanium 3 insufficient virtual memory, but eventually worked. 7 Re: insufficient virtual memory, but eventually worked. 7 Re: insufficient virtual memory, but eventually worked. 7 Re: insufficient virtual memory, but eventually worked. / Re: OpenVMS Management Station can't show disks   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 29 May 2005 14:43:40 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>" Subject: Re: ABC problem with disk+ Message-ID: <429A1B6C.592ADCA2@comcast.net>    Dave Froble wrote: > [snip]I > Maybe it's not HP that's to blame for the lack of third party software. I >   Perhaps it's the attitude of some users that's to blame.  Why ask for < > third party software if you won't purchase it and use it?   E Much of the debate here centers on the source of such attitudes among G users and vendors alike. The lack of VMS promotion has certainly gone a E long way toward convincing users that choosing VMS could be a "career  limiting" move.   D It's hard to "point the finger" at the users or vendors without also/ pointing at their motivation, or lack there of.    > Burn vendorsG > in this manner a few times, then don't be surprised if they refuse to  > provide software for VMS.   E Same comment. Vendors and users alike see little future for VMS, even : less for Alpha and no reason at all to see any for Itanic.  F Very few vendors engage in extensive philathropy. So, I don't see thisH situation improving without some powerful, positive stimulus in the formH of a massive, all-out, "balls to the wall" promotional campaign focusing& on VMS and it's host platform du jour.  F > I could list more than a few such instances, including the statement= > "I'll never buy support from you, you're too small to sue".  > > > I'm too disgusted to say more without becoming very abusive.  H Hopefully not toward me personally. Sure, I do my fair share of grousingE and then some, but if anyone can say what I personally can do to trun < VMS's fortunes around without HP's assistance, I'm all ears.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 29 May 2005 14:34:53 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>" Subject: Re: ABC problem with disk+ Message-ID: <429A195D.235E4C95@comcast.net>    Paul Sture wrote:  > 
 > Doc. wrote:  > - > > %NEWS-I-NEWMSG, David J Dachtera wrote in & > > news:4298D11C.F9109407@comcast.net > > J > > <snip - missing bit, build VMS system disk to restore VMS system disk> > > I > >>Precisely why such products can't cut it in the VMS market niche: you J > >>have to restore the system before you can restore the system. Too muchJ > >>delay, too much man-power requirement, too many interdependencies, too  > >>many things to go wrong, ... > >  > > L > > Are any other systems significantly different?  When you want to compareJ > > to Windows, what do they do for the zillion dollar datacenter version? > > M > > As far as I'm aware, any OS requires you boot some version or other of it L > > to restore a system disk.  Where I see VMS winning is that I could writeF > > instructions on one side of a sheet of paper and the janitor could > > restore the system disk. > >  > F > Taking that further, there's nothing to stop you building a separateG > bootable volume which has just enough (3rd party backup/restore apps, 9 > networking software and configuration, diags, whatever)   G IF I had the financing to gather the necessary resources, that would be F *MY* market niche: building stand-alone backup bootables for the "lost7 sheep" who unwisely insist on side-stepping VMS BACKUP.    > to restore the > system disk directly.   H I have an older (1998 or so) version of Backup Exec on my Wintel PC hereF that will allow me to build a stand-alone boot environment that can beH used to restore the system, whether you run your backup to tape or CD-R.H I've built restore kits, but never had the balls to attempt a restore. IG have could of extra hard discs around now, and I may try it this summer 8 some time, just to see if it would have actually worked.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 29 May 2005 23:19:49 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> " Subject: Re: ABC problem with disk0 Message-ID: <119l1he4ve099ac@corp.supernews.com>   David J Dachtera wrote:  > Dave Froble wrote: >  >>[snip]I >>Maybe it's not HP that's to blame for the lack of third party software. I >>  Perhaps it's the attitude of some users that's to blame.  Why ask for < >>third party software if you won't purchase it and use it?  >  > G > Much of the debate here centers on the source of such attitudes among I > users and vendors alike. The lack of VMS promotion has certainly gone a G > long way toward convincing users that choosing VMS could be a "career  > limiting" move.  > F > It's hard to "point the finger" at the users or vendors without also1 > pointing at their motivation, or lack there of.   I You're changing the subject.  You're responding to a post that basically  F said "If users won't buy third party software, maybe they are some of 1 the reason vendors don't write software for VMS."   I One simple case, hope Glenn doesn't mind.  Glenn Everhart wrote a rather  G useful piece of system software.  Couldn't sell it.  Users wanted such  H capabilities from DEC, but wouldn't buy/use a third party product.  The G real irony, (unless I have my facts mixed up) Glenn at one time worked  ! for DEC writing similar software.    >>Burn vendorsG >>in this manner a few times, then don't be surprised if they refuse to  >>provide software for VMS.  >  > G > Same comment. Vendors and users alike see little future for VMS, even < > less for Alpha and no reason at all to see any for Itanic. > H > Very few vendors engage in extensive philathropy. So, I don't see thisJ > situation improving without some powerful, positive stimulus in the formJ > of a massive, all-out, "balls to the wall" promotional campaign focusing( > on VMS and it's host platform du jour.  H It's not vendors I was talking about.  It was users who won't patronize  small third party vendors.  F >>I could list more than a few such instances, including the statement= >>"I'll never buy support from you, you're too small to sue".  >>> >>I'm too disgusted to say more without becoming very abusive. >  > J > Hopefully not toward me personally. Sure, I do my fair share of grousingG > and then some, but if anyone can say what I personally can do to trun > > VMS's fortunes around without HP's assistance, I'm all ears. >   H Not toward anyone.  I gave up on 'packaged' software for VMS years ago. I   No market.  The users want VMS engineering to provide everything.  The  9 users want cheaper VMS.  The users get what they deserve.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 29 May 2005 13:01:55 -0500 ( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>L Subject: Re: Are the sys$icc_* services being replaced/rewritten for Itanium/ Message-ID: <00A447D7.0DFE5F8F.3@tachysoft.com>   4 >From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> >X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsI >Subject: Are the sys$icc_* services being replaced/rewritten for Itanium , >Date: Sun, 29 May 2005 12:09:44 +0000 (UTC)/ >Organization: I've done my time I'm goin' home    > L >It is my understanding that these services were bound fairly closely to theI >Alpha architecture. (No more than 6 arguments to maximize register usage - >etc) Will there be new versions for Itanium?  >   N I have all my ICC stuff in a single library module, and I made *no* changes to it for itanium.    Wayne O =============================================================================== N Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html    O =============================================================================== P Jake Blues:"You traded the Caddy for a microphone? ...... Okay, I can buy that."   ------------------------------    Date: 29 May 2005 12:45:45 -0700 From: anuj.goyal@gmail.com< Subject: insufficient virtual memory, but eventually worked.C Message-ID: <1117395944.902302.113160@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    I just created a file (jam.exe)   C but I run out of memory trying to compile it... this is pretty odd, D does the cxx compiler limit the amount of virtual memory that a user gets during compilation?   GEIN $ run jam ...found 143 target(s)...  ...updating 31 target(s)...  MkDir1 [.binvms] Cc [.binvms]builtins.obj Cc [.binvms]command.obj  Cc [.binvms]compile.obj  Cc [.binvms]execvms.obj  Cc [.binvms]filevms.obj < Fatal:  Insufficient virtual memory to continue compilation.- %LIB-F-INSVIRMEM, insufficient virtual memory   5 cxx/obj=[.binvms]filevms.obj /define=VMS    filevms.c % ...failed Cc [.binvms]filevms.obj ...   ...removing [.binvms]filevms.obj Cc [.binvms]pathvms.obj  Cc [.binvms]jamgram.obj  Cc [.binvms]expand.obj Cc [.binvms]glob.obj Cc [.binvms]hash.obj Cc [.binvms]headers.obj  Cc [.binvms]lists.obj  Cc [.binvms]make.obj Cc [.binvms]make1.obj  Cc [.binvms]newstr.obj Cc [.binvms]option.obj Cc [.binvms]parse.obj  Cc [.binvms]regexp.obj Cc [.binvms]rules.obj  Cc [.binvms]scan.obj Cc [.binvms]search.obj Cc [.binvms]timestamp.obj  Cc [.binvms]variable.obj< ...skipped libjam.olb for lack of libjam.olb(filevms.obj)... Cc [.binvms]mkjambase.obj  Link [.binvms]mkjambase.exe  Chmod1 [.binvms]mkjambase.exe  Cc [.binvms]jam.obj  GenFile1 jambase.c Cc [.binvms]jambase.obj , ...skipped jam.exe for lack of libjam.olb...! ...failed updating 1 target(s)...  ...skipped 2 target(s)...  ...updated 28 target(s)...    : once I ran it outside of jam (see http://www.perforce.com) the cxx compilation suceeded:   < GEIN $ cxx/obj=[.binvms]filevms.obj /define=VMS    filevms.c GEIN $ run jam ...found 143 target(s)...  ...using 23 temp target(s)...  ...updating 2 target(s)... Archive [.binvms]libjam.olb  Link [.binvms]jam.exe  Chmod1 [.binvms]jam.exe  ...updated 2 target(s)...        GEIN $ type Jamfile. SubDir TOP ;   Echo [DEBUG]  OS is $(OS) ; # Echo [DEBUG]  OSPLAT is $(OSPLAT) ;    GEIN $ run jam [DEBUG] OS is VMS  [DEBUG] OSPLAT is AXP  ...found 7 target(s)...   	 <opinion> > jam is great if you have to do cross platform C++ development.
 </opinion>     GEIN $ cxx/ver, Compaq C++ V6.5-046 for OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-1   ------------------------------   Date: 29 May 2005 20:06:40 GMT$ From: "Doc." <doc@openvms-rocks.com>@ Subject: Re: insufficient virtual memory, but eventually worked.7 Message-ID: <Xns9665E100FF036dcovmsrox@212.100.160.126>   7 %NEWS-I-NEWMSG,  wrote in news:1117395944.902302.113160  @g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com   ! > I just created a file (jam.exe)  > E > but I run out of memory trying to compile it... this is pretty odd, F > does the cxx compiler limit the amount of virtual memory that a user > gets during compilation?  G No, your user quotas do, and they're fairly restrictive on the initial  C account set up.  Mainly because the Deathrow machines are short on   memory.   B Can you mail me on the cluster (I'm user DC) and once I know your J username I'll up your quotas for you.  You might also want to join in the H Notes discussion on the cluster, it can get issues noticed and resolved  for you a little quicker.    > GEIN $ cxx/ver. > Compaq C++ V6.5-046 for OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-1  J Once I got the kit off ftp.compaq.com it was no problem.  Well, there was ) a problem.  I nearly choked when I got...    GEIN $ ftp ftp.compaq.com 4 gein.vistech.net MultiNet FTP user process V5.0(119). Connection opened (Assuming 8-bit connections)1 <zmaftppro13 Microsoft FTP Service (Version 5.0).               ^^^^^^^^^   Doc. --  G OpenVMS:     Eight out of ten hackers prefer *other* operating systems. G http://www.openvms-rocks.com    Deathrow Public-Access OpenVMS Cluster.    ------------------------------    Date: 29 May 2005 17:16:30 -0700 From: anuj.goyal@gmail.com@ Subject: Re: insufficient virtual memory, but eventually worked.C Message-ID: <1117412189.981358.128030@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    i'm user GOANUJ   F i am trying to use notes, but as with anything new there is a learning; curve for me.  which forum would be best for me to post in?   2 microsoft FTP ... that machine must be a zombie :)   ------------------------------    Date: 29 May 2005 22:14:11 -0700 From: anuj.goyal@gmail.com@ Subject: Re: insufficient virtual memory, but eventually worked.C Message-ID: <1117430051.202783.292500@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    DOc ,   F you might already be aware about this tool, but here's a link anyways:  , http://www.executive.com/downloads/menu.aspx
 search for& OpenVMS Fragmentation Analysis Utility  F Find out how much fragmentation is impacting your OpenVMS Alpha or VAX with this free utility.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 10:14:21 +1000 # From: "Gremlin" <not-here@all.mate> 8 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Management Station can't show disks/ Message-ID: <429a5ade$1@duster.adelaide.on.net>    Hi Chris   Thanks for that, but..... ( [SYSMGR] > @sys$startup:tnt$startup boot/ OpenVMS Management Server appears to be running   M Initializing the print subsystem from the OpenVMS Management Station printer   dat  abase   & [SYSMGR] > @tnt$utility update storage  8 Updating the OpenVMS Management Station storage database  5 The following messages were returned from the server: $ %TNT-F-OBJNOTFOUND, object not found3 %TNT-I-EMPTYSET, nothing satisfied the given filter 
 [SYSMGR] >   So, still no joy!!    0 "Chris" <an.other@not_here.ca> wrote in message 2 news:JUmme.2776$yG4.89569@news20.bellglobal.com.../ > First thing is to run the TNT update utility:  > + > $ @sys$manager:TNT$UTILITY UPDATE STORAGE  > : > Then make sure you have started the TNT server properly: > " > $  @sys$startup:TNT$STARTUP BOOT > ; > Never had any troubles one this was completed on a system  >  > Chris  > 0 > "Gremlin" <not-here@all.mate> wrote in message+ > news:4299a3fa$1@duster.adelaide.on.net... 	 >> Hi All  >>L >> OpenVMS Management Station 3.2C talking to OVMSAlpha 7.1 - can manage andJ >> display everything except for storage.  Trying to display storage gives6 >> TNT-I-EMPTYSET, nothing satisfied the given filter. >>L >> OK, the filter is set to device name = * and trying all the other options > = K >> * produces the same result.  Can use telnet to monitor/mount/unmount the  >> disks which look like this: >>H >> Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free > Trans  >> MntI >>  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks  > Count  >> Cnt1 >> VAX$DQA0:               Online               0 I >> VAX$DQA1:               Mounted              0  ALPHASYS      33548148  > 247  >> 11 >> VAX$DQB0:               Online               0 1 >> VAX$DQB1:               Online               0 1 >> VAX$DVA0:               Online               0  >>C >> So, can't even see the system disk using the management station!  >> >> Any thoughts appreciated. >> >> TIA >> >> >  >    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.299 ************************