1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 03 Nov 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 613       Contents:" Re: %SYSTEM-F-ILLEGAL_SHADOW error Re: Determining SCSI settings  Re: how to break cluster Re: how to break cluster Re: how to break cluster/ Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today / Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today / Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today / Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today  OT: The return of timesharing + Tape backup device Alpha/Integrity for VMS? 7 Re: Were you an Interex member?  Now you're being sold! 7 Re: Were you an Interex member?  Now you're being sold! O Re: What's matter with my VMS mail utility, Please help to resolve it,  Thanks. N Re: What's matter with my VMS mail utility, Please help to resolve it, Thanks.9 Re: Will Digital's abandonned software ever go "public" ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 12:59:34 -0700 4 From: Norman Lastovica <norman.lastovica@oracle.com>+ Subject: Re: %SYSTEM-F-ILLEGAL_SHADOW error * Message-ID: <43691AA6.7B2D79A7@oracle.com>  5 %SYSTEM-F-ILLEGAL_SHADOW, illegal formed trap shadow, @ Imask=0111510C, Fmask=0000001B, summary=0B, PC=000000000000005B, PS=0000001B   < my bet is that some code returned 1460 as an exit status.  I doubt that PC 5b is valid.     Malcolm Dunnett wrote: > 9 > I'm running VMS 7.3-2 on a cluster of two ES40 servers.  > 6 > Since moving to this configuration I've noticed that7 > occasionally ( but not reliably reproducibly ) when a * > program exits I get the following error: > 7 > %SYSTEM-F-ILLEGAL_SHADOW, illegal formed trap shadow, N > Imask=0111510C, Fmask=0000001B, summary=0B, PC=000000000000005B, PS=0000001B > 4 >   Improperly handled condition, image exit forced.3 >     Signal arguments:   Number = 0000000000000003 3 >                         Name   = 00000000000005B4 3 >                                  000000000111510C 3 >                                  000000000000001B  >  >     Register dump:L >     R0  = 0000000001735488  R1  = 0000000000000002  R2  = 0000000000000000L >     R3  = 0000000000000000  R4  = 0000000000000000  R5  = 0000000000000000L >     R6  = 0000000000000000  R7  = 0000000000000000  R8  = 0000000000000000L >     R9  = 0000000000000000  R10 = 0000000000000000  R11 = 0000000000000000L >     R12 = 0000000000000000  R13 = 000000007AE09140  R14 = 00000000017354A8L >     R15 = 0000000003842984  R16 = 000000000111510B  R17 = 000000000111510CL >     R18 = 000000000010ACA1  R19 = 0000000000000000  R20 = 0000000000000000L >     R21 = 000000000000000F  R22 = 0000000000000000  R23 = 4024000000000000L >     R24 = 0000000000000001  R25 = 0000000000000002  R26 = 000000000111510BL >     R27 = 000000000000005B  R28 = 000000000000001B  R29 = 0000000000000000L >     SP  = 000000007AE08FD0  PC  = 000000000111510C  PS  = 100000000000001B > & > The HELP/MESSAGE isn't very helpful: > N > Explanation:  The instruction sequence does not obey the rules stated in theN >                 Alpha Architecture Reference Manual for software completion.K >                 It is impossible for system software to complete the IEEE 6 >                 floating-point arithmetic operation. > F >   User Action:  Recompile the program to enable software completion. > E > I don't believe it's my code that is causing this and I'm certainly / > not doing any IEEE floating-point arithmetic.  > E > The only reference I could find on Google to this error pertains to I > Oracle Rdb, which we don't use - though these programs do use "Classic" J > Oracle. We converted the programs to the Oracle 9.2 client when we movedI > to these new servers so it's certainly conceivable that it's the Oracle I > client code that is causing the problem. There is a reference on Oracle I > Metalink to someone getting a similar error using the Oracle DBCA tool.  > K > This doesn't appear to be a big problem as it never occurs any time other H > that at image exit, but of course unexplained errors always bother me. > K > Has anyone else seen this and/or have any explanation for why it might be  > happening?   --  	 - - - - - 0  opinions expressed here are mine and mine alone.  and certainly are not intended in any way to 0  express or represent any opinions or commitment  of oracle corporation.   *  norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 16:56:53 -0800 ( From: Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net>& Subject: Re: Determining SCSI settings0 Message-ID: <BF8EA055.171AA%roktsci@comcast.net>  G On 11/2/05 8:21 AM, in article 43687726$1@mvb.saic.com, "Mark Berryman"  <mark@theberrymans.com> wrote:  H > How does one tell what type of bus and speed have been negotiated by aE > SCSI controller?  For example, is the SCSI bus running in LVD or SE E > mode?  Are the devices running at 160MB or do some negotiate at 40?  > J > I used to get some indication of this at bootup time but, at least on myI > V8.2 system, I no longer see any SCSI information at startup.  Is there G > a data structure anywhere that stores this information, or is there a D > way to query the controller to find out what settings it is using? >  > Mark Berryman   J I don't know of a way to tell from the OS side, however if you look on theJ faceplate next to the connecter you should see one of four symbols stamped< into the metal. Here are the symbols (click on link to see).   Single Ended SCSI : 6 http://homepage.mac.com/jeffcameron/.Public/scsise.gif   High Voltage Differential : 7 http://homepage.mac.com/jeffcameron/.Public/scsihvd.gif    Low Voltage Differential :7 http://homepage.mac.com/jeffcameron/.Public/scsilvd.gif   ' Low Voltage Differential/Single Ended : 8 http://homepage.mac.com/jeffcameron/.Public/scsilvse.gif   Jeff Cameron   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 11:41:27 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> ! Subject: Re: how to break cluster ( Message-ID: <opszmozdaazgicya@hyrrokkin>  6 On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 21:09:50 -0600, David J Dachtera  " <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote:   > abuaaaz@gmail.com wrote: >> >> Hi  >> I am very new for this group I >> We have some OpenVMS cluster,my boss is asking me to break the cluster ' >> Can some one help me on this subject 	 >> Thanks  > J > Consider posting your query to comp.os.vms. I cross-posted this reply to > include that group.  > < > To "break" the cluster, just disconnect something vital... > 4 > Humor aside, what is meant by "break the cluster"? > 5 You might want to ask your boss what he really wants.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 21:20:41 -0500, From: "Richard Tomkins" <tomkinsr@istop.com>! Subject: Re: how to break cluster 7 Message-ID: <1130984600_1875@spool6-east.superfeed.net>   K I seem to remember a command procedure, @cluster$config.com or somesuch. Do J a directory on sys$update and look for something in there that has cluster in the filename.   rtt     ? "David J Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message % news:43682DFE.56FAC7A8@comcast.net...  > abuaaaz@gmail.com wrote: > >  > > Hi  > > I am very new for this groupJ > > We have some OpenVMS cluster,my boss is asking me to break the cluster( > > Can some one help me on this subject
 > > Thanks > J > Consider posting your query to comp.os.vms. I cross-posted this reply to > include that group.  > < > To "break" the cluster, just disconnect something vital... > 4 > Humor aside, what is meant by "break the cluster"? >  > --   > David J Dachtera > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ > + > Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: $ > http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/  > $ > Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/  >  > Coming soon:( > Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page >       O ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups K ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 21:08:14 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>! Subject: Re: how to break cluster + Message-ID: <43697F1D.BB6C4C3F@comcast.net>    Richard Tomkins wrote: > M > I seem to remember a command procedure, @cluster$config.com or somesuch. Do L > a directory on sys$update and look for something in there that has cluster > in the filename.  C You're likely thinking of SYS$MANAGER:CLUSTER_CONFIG.COM (at least,  there's one on V7.2-2).    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 20:38:14 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today+ Message-ID: <43697815.ABFEE4AD@comcast.net>    Bill Gunshannon wrote: > - > In article <43681C12.B2CBAE0A@comcast.net>, > >         David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: > > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > >>0 > >> In article <43616ACB.A938E100@comcast.net>,A > >>         David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:  > >> > Lurker wrote: > >> >> ? > >> >> A few years back some wiring in my house short-circuted ? > >> >> and caught fire. It was put out quick enough so not too 9 > >> >> much damage was done but the wiring itself needed  > >> >> replacement of course. > >> >> % > >> >> Since I couldn't do it myself  > >> > > >> > Why not?  > >>L > >> Some people know their limitations. Not everyone is an electrician or aI > >> plumber or a carpenter.  Of course, some of us who haven't spent our > > >> entire lives in front of a keyboard are all of them.  :-) > >> > >> >( > >> >> I've pulled out  theYellow Pages@ > >> >> which had something like a full page of electricians and: > >> >> companies who could and would do that in the area.? > >> >> A few phone calls resulted in some interesting results. < > >> >> All union shops quoted exactly the same price - downA > >> >> to a cent. Not too surprising really, that's part of what  > >> >> the unions do I guess. > >> >L > >> > Yes: they watch out for each other. No one gets cheated, and everyone  > >> > has the same opportunity. > >>$ > >> Yeah, it's called price fixing. > > I > > Well, yes and no. Yes, prices are "fixed" so that you know if someone E > > wants to try and charge more than "union scale", they're probably L > > scamming you, and if they offer to charge less, their credentials or the. > > quality of their work may be questionable. >  > Non-sequitor.    Not really.   # > Charging more than a union worker    ...make that "union shop"...   > doesn't mean scamming   5 ...necessarily, but it is a distinct possibility, ...   . > and charging less does not mean low quality>  9 ...necessarily, but again, it is a distinct possibility.     > In any event, it is not . > the union's place to set the one true price,  F I don't recall saying there was (or even could be) a "one true price".   > that should be an agreement K > between the worker and the payer.  If you think the offer is slave wages,  > don't take the job   ...or hire the contractor...  6 > but don't tell someone else that they're not allowed; > to do the job because they are willing to do it for less.   0 ...even though that is the definition of "scab".   > > $ > >> Just what one would expect from= > >> an organization that is totally against free enterprise.  > > L > > Well, actually, no they aren't. Unions are PRO free enterprise, but ANTIL > > slave-labor. A fair wage for a fair and honest effort - that's the goal. > H > As above, that is a matter for the parties involved and not the union.  C However, union pay scales tend to be very uniform over the range of G employers. Basic rules of comptetion require that shops be competitive; F so, to keep profits and such in line, shops tend to charge the same orH similar for labor while pricing on materials can vary, sometimes widely,* depending upon sourcing and other factors.   > >  > >> >+ > >> >> But, non-union professionals quoted D > >> >> anything from exactly the same as the union did (got the cue> > >> >> there I guess) up to 50% lower. And yes, they were all  > >> >> certified and qualified. > >> > > >> > ...by whom? > >>I > >> In any place that actually has building codes (rural america in most  > >> cases does not) > > K > > Well, yes and no. In some states, such codes are found at the county or  > > state level. >  > Not in many.     Illinois, for one.  7 > Most farmers are free to do pretty much all their own  > work.   G However, inspectors are sort of like "rev'noo-ers". An ounce of caution  can save tons of trouble later.    > > 4 > >> electricians are required to be licensed by the > >> municipalities  > > $ > > ...or the state and/or county... > D > I have never been anywhere that those kinds of licenses went above; > the municipality, but I'm willing to be shown otherwise.     Check out Illinois.    > There are,G > of course, US Codes as well, but there is no inspector at the federal # > level to actually check them out.  >  > > 5 > >> in which they wish to work and the the licensing A > >> body makes sure of qualifications and things like insurance.  > > / > > ...in so much and as far as funding allows.  > , > But it is their job, and not some unions.   F Well, yes and no. No, the unions do not set prices directly, they justF have a profound influence on labor costs. Yes, unions help insure that= workers are trained, qualified, and in some cases, certified.    > I voted them into officeB > (well, not me all the time, but the majority), I never gave that > power to any union.    You didn't have a choice.    > >  > >> > > >> >> Guess who got the job? > >> >N > >> > Do you *REALLY* want to trust your safety to the lowest bidder? (think:8 > >> > Space Shuttle Challenger, Hubble Telescope, etc.) > >>M > >> Well, I thought the same thing about the lowest bidder.  I would tend to D > >> pick someone in the middle. (Except that I would do it myself!) > > I > > I would tend to pick someone who offers the most common price and has K > > the best references and reputation. Sometimes you get more than you pay 0 > > for; but, be careful you don't get any less. > J > And why would I assume that just because some jerk has the union seal ofK > approval that he is any better than anyone else?  I have seen incompetent  > union workers too.  D As mentioned in other posts, there are no guarantees either way. So,H like everyone from the government to gamblers to criminals, you play the odds.    >  > >  > >> >A > >> >> That means two things: One: if you accept the union offer , > >> >> you pay twice as much as you should. > >> >K > >> > Depends. The union guys all have the same training. John from Bill's K > >> > Electrical can come in and start a job, then go on family leave, and N > >> > Bill from John's Electrical and come in and finish it without having toO > >> > guess what John was thinking or having to redo the work you already paid  > >> > for.  > >>K > >> Hahahahahahahaha   Maybe in a perfect world.  I have known some really  > >> incompetent union people. > > H > > Likewise. No, the world is not perfect, but that's the intent of the% > > system, however flawed it may be.  > > G > > Incomptence is not limited to the union workers, of course - nor is  > > competence.  > E > So then, why is a non-union worker who is willing to do the job for  > less a dubious choice?  C For the same reason that ANYone, regardless of affiliation (or lack D there of) may try to charge more. Are they that much better? Do theyE offer a better guarantee? Do they use better materials (union-made in G the U.S. vs. slave-labor made in the third world)? What justifies there F request? ...and can you negotiate a fair trade-off if you want his/her work at your price?    > >  > >> >N > >> > If Bubba from Billy-Bob and Bubba, Inc., Electrical Contractor comes inO > >> > and can't finish for whatever reason (busted for dope, unplanned shotgun O > >> > wedding or whatever), will any of his work have to be redone by who ever  > >> > gets the job to finish? > >>7 > >> Not too prejudiced in favor of the unions, are we?  > > E > > I wouldn't say "prejudiced". See my previous posts explaining the - > > differences in our lives and experiences.  > H > Hmmmm.... Let's see.....  Non-union means junky, hick and incapable of > finishing the job.    B Never said that, though there is a strong implication. I have alsoB acknowledged possibilities to the converse. What more do you want?  ) > And you don't think you have any bias?    C Never said I didn't. I just argued the use of the word "prejudice". H Rather like, "Innocent until proven guilty, but we'll keep you locked up anyway until you're acquitted".    > Of course,I > you failed to cover the union worker refusing to finish the job because J > his brothers down at the local factory went on strike and they are going > out in support.   E My respect for him my waiver if he didn't support the union's action, 8 unless the strike was not against his specific employer.   > >  > >> Being a card carryingO > >> union member is no more a guarantee of competence than not being one means  > >> your a hick moron.  > > 0 > > ...and, of course, the reverse is also true. > J > See your comment above about why non-union workers won't finish the job.  ; See also my other acknowledgements in this post and others.    >  > >  > >> > > >> >> Two: some union B > >> >> worker has lost out on that job simply because a non-union? > >> >> one could beat him on the price (by a good margin too).  > >> >N > >> > ...or he'll get the rework when it fails or doesn't meet code, at whichO > >> > point you end up paying 50% *MORE* than if you'd done it right the first  > >> > time. > >> > >> See comment above!!!  > > 
 > > Ditto. > >  > >> >+ > >> > TANSTAAFL. You get what you pay for.  > >> > >> Microsoft Windows XP  > > F > > Anyone who wastes good money for Micro$lop deserves what they get. > F > That's not the point,  You said "You get what you pay for" and I was8 > merely pointing out that that is not always the case.    I agreed with you, did I not?    > So forcing people K > to pay higher prices does not mean the union worker will do a better job.   , ...but does not mean that they won't either.  H I'm going to bow out at this point. You're getting a bit too emotionallyA invested in your own position and this discussion is has stalled.   H So, let me go back a few posts: Your mileage may vary, and probably will7 (definitely does). Let's agree to disagree and move on.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 20:43:52 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today+ Message-ID: <43697968.58E597E8@comcast.net>   
 AEF wrote: >  > David J Dachtera wrote: 
 > > [snip]H > > Remember: "market" price is what people are willing to pay (example:L > > gasoline). "Fair" price is often what the market would otherwise supportE > > lacking influences which effect the price artificially (examples: A > > gasoline, OpenVMS licenses, new Alpha machines, housing, ...)  > I > There's market price with a monopoly and market price with competition. @ > Then it depends on what you call "influences". Does collectiveF > bargaining count as an "influence"? Does your fair definition assume > monopoly on either side?  A Your local newspaper's Business section likely carried an article E (possibly even headlined) about recent announcements by the petroleum H industry companies of outstanding profits during the recent quarter when, crude and gasoline-pump prices were peaking.  @ I'll let that speak for itself. (Hint: No one U.S. company has a: monopoly on the U.S. petroleum distillate product market.)   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Nov 2005 19:13:43 -0800 $ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march todayC Message-ID: <1130987623.247502.222640@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    David J Dachtera wrote:  > AEF wrote: > >  > > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > > [snip]J > > > Remember: "market" price is what people are willing to pay (example:N > > > gasoline). "Fair" price is often what the market would otherwise supportG > > > lacking influences which effect the price artificially (examples: C > > > gasoline, OpenVMS licenses, new Alpha machines, housing, ...)  > > K > > There's market price with a monopoly and market price with competition. B > > Then it depends on what you call "influences". Does collectiveH > > bargaining count as an "influence"? Does your fair definition assume > > monopoly on either side? > C > Your local newspaper's Business section likely carried an article G > (possibly even headlined) about recent announcements by the petroleum J > industry companies of outstanding profits during the recent quarter when. > crude and gasoline-pump prices were peaking. > B > I'll let that speak for itself. (Hint: No one U.S. company has a< > monopoly on the U.S. petroleum distillate product market.)  F Well, if there were just one big oil company, prices and profits would be even higher.   G Prices are up because demand is up and supply is down or not increasing = fast enough. The price moves in such a way that tends to keep 0 inventories or shortages from getting excessive.  F Note that there are different prices, each under different conditions,E at different stages, which makes things more complicated. Regardless, F in general, the law of supply and demand has a very big say as to what prices are.   # BTW, you didn't adress my question.    >  > -- > David J Dachtera > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ > + > Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: $ > http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/  > $ > Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/  >  > Coming soon:( > Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 21:34:27 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today+ Message-ID: <43698542.DB0AD838@comcast.net>   
 AEF wrote: >  > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > AEF wrote: > > >  > > > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > > > [snip]L > > > > Remember: "market" price is what people are willing to pay (example:P > > > > gasoline). "Fair" price is often what the market would otherwise supportI > > > > lacking influences which effect the price artificially (examples: E > > > > gasoline, OpenVMS licenses, new Alpha machines, housing, ...)  > > > M > > > There's market price with a monopoly and market price with competition. D > > > Then it depends on what you call "influences". Does collectiveJ > > > bargaining count as an "influence"? Does your fair definition assume > > > monopoly on either side? > > E > > Your local newspaper's Business section likely carried an article I > > (possibly even headlined) about recent announcements by the petroleum L > > industry companies of outstanding profits during the recent quarter when0 > > crude and gasoline-pump prices were peaking. > > D > > I'll let that speak for itself. (Hint: No one U.S. company has a> > > monopoly on the U.S. petroleum distillate product market.) > H > Well, if there were just one big oil company, prices and profits would > be even higher.   E I.e., a true monopoly, and yes, pricing at that point would be beyond  control.  $ > Prices are up because demand is up   ...or steadily rising...   > and supply is down  
 ...and/...   > or not increasing ? > fast enough. The price moves in such a way that tends to keep 2 > inventories or shortages from getting excessive.  G Well, yes and no. Yes, in so far as one needs to make enough profit off E the current batch of end product to be able to cover current expenses H and buy the next batch of raw material at its then-current price. No, inD so far as fluctuations in the supply or price of raw material do notH change the level of costs incurred when the end product in inventory was	 produced.   H > Note that there are different prices, each under different conditions,; > at different stages, which makes things more complicated.   A Depends. We've been talking about end-user prices to the ultimate : consumer. That seems to be everyone's over-riding concern.  
 > Regardless, H > in general, the law of supply and demand has a very big say as to what
 > prices are.   G Well, yes and no. Some items are priced artificially high to stymie the ; demand. Cases in point: OpenVMS, gasoline. Some items, like F pharmaceuticals are priced based on market "captivity": you either buy< it, or you suffer reduced quality of life (or loss of life).  F Also, the "law of supply and demand" tends to vary, depending on one'sF paradigm. To the Wall Street Casino player (commodities investor), theG meaning is more classical. To the business trying to garner or increase F market share it reads more like this: "The customer demands it, so youD supply it at a price the customer will accept before the competitionH does and does so to undercut your price". So, that's not really the best	 argument.   % > BTW, you didn't adress my question.   D Well, actually yes, I did. It's all there. Keep reading the previousB post and any other information it may reference until you find it.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 19:34:31 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> & Subject: OT: The return of timesharing, Message-ID: <43695B10.2E076C62@teksavvy.com>  H Microsoft today announced it would try to offer applications that run onE the net, instead of having people install the apps on their machines.   C While the media are focusing on the potential for Microsoft getting H advertising revenus (imagine as you type a Word document on the web, the> ads changing depending on what you are typing :-), there is an unmentioned aspect of this:   G In corporate environments, they may prefer to use the same server based E software to serve what are essentially net terminals. (aka: return to % ALL-IN-1 style of office automation).   C If VMS had marketing, they would have full page ads in the New York E Times tomorrow saying that "VMS has it now, and has had it for years,  way ahead of Microsoft".  : So, instead of a browser, you have an X terminal software.    E See, if Digital had opensourced DECwrite,  someone could modify it to H include advertising in the menu bar and make Wall Street Casino AnalystsE jump up and down at the thought of someone being able to take revenus  from Microsoft.    ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 21:31:36 +0000 (UTC). From: Dale Dellutri <ddelQQQlutr@panQQQix.com>4 Subject: Tape backup device Alpha/Integrity for VMS?, Message-ID: <dkbb7o$m12$1@reader2.panix.com>  C What's the current wisdom on tape backup devices to order with new   Alpha or Integrity VMS systems?   A I currently have ES40's with TZ89's (DLT 7000?) and I use DLT IV   media.  F I assumed that I should order new systems with SDLT 320 tape drives toE get "backward read compatibility" (BRC) with the DLT IV tapes written G on a TZ89.  However, the HP web site mentions a SDLT 600, which is BRC  + with the SDLT 320, but doesn't mention DLT.   2 There are other formats: VS80, VS160, various DAT.  
 Any thoughts?    --  7 Dale Dellutri <ddelQQQlutr@panQQQix.com> (lose the Q's)    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 20:55:22 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>@ Subject: Re: Were you an Interex member?  Now you're being sold!+ Message-ID: <43697C1A.6AB65EB4@comcast.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > David J Dachtera wrote: M > > > And whoever buys the membership list will have full rights to the list. N > > > Because Interex is being liquidated, any privacy protections Interex had > > >  are now totally moot. > > E > > Not according to U.S. law. In most cases, covenants are deemed to  > > survive succession.  > , > This is not succession, it is liquidation.  E Nope. "Succession", in this case, refers to ownership of the specific B property, regardless of the reason or process of transfer, not the process in general.    > Bankrupcy law allows the! > judge to cancel any contracts.     Nope.   ) > The only goal is to sell assets for the J > most money to give back to creditors. They are not selling a user group.N > they are selling office chairs, desk lamps, mailing lists, and file folders. > H > Whoever buys the mailing list might have to abide by whatever law thatH > protects any/all mailings lists, but the court *may* void any specificD > rules that the bankrupted organisation had above and beyond normal > privacy requirements.   C I think you may need to study up on U.S. privacy laws. You're kinda ( talking outta the top of your head here.  B > > Now, that duty falls to the courts and the Justice Department. >  > Nop.   Yep.  D > The court's only duty is to sell the assets of the defunct companyH > for the most amount of money and then distribute the proceeds "fairly" > to creditors.   F ...but it may not violate the law in the process, nor may it authorize; others to violate the law by their use of purchased assets.   G > Members could go to the court and mention that if the list is sold to E > someone who does not withhold all of the Interex privacy rules, the . > members will sue the new onwer of the list.   F The court would be derelict in its duties in such case, since it wouldG have failed to consider the laws governing the use of a sold asset. Any E appropriate appeals court judge could easily overturn such an action, / and would likely be duty-bound to do just that.    > The court would then be < > forced to mention this to any potential buyer of the list.  D The court would be *REQUIRED* to admonish the buyer that the list isF sold subject to the laws which governed its use by the original owner.   > Shoudl he E > agree to buy the list, he would have full knowledged that should he G > breach Interex rules, he might get legal trouble from the members and 1 > can decide if the members were bluffing or not.   H ...but would definitely be subject to prosecution in such case, which is< no "bluff" in any U.S. jurisdiction. Can't say about Canada.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 23:47:15 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> @ Subject: Re: Were you an Interex member?  Now you're being sold!, Message-ID: <4369963D.E86BD848@teksavvy.com>   David J Dachtera wrote: G > Nope. "Succession", in this case, refers to ownership of the specific D > property, regardless of the reason or process of transfer, not the > process in general.   G If the bankrupted company had a rule prohibiting men in pink miniskirts D from sitting on office chairs, when the liquidators find a buyer forH such chairs, the buyers will not be bound by the defunct company's rulesE about chair usage. The new buyer can do as it wishes with the chairs.      > > Bankrupcy law allows the" > > judge to cancel any contracts. >  > Nope.   A Yes. in liquidation, there are no contracts left.  There are only H creditors who want compensation based on how much the bankrupted companyI owes them due to unpaid bills and unpaid securec contractual obligations.   H > ...but it may not violate the law in the process, nor may it authorize= > others to violate the law by their use of purchased assets.     ? I was talking about any interex specific bylaws/rules on use of G distribution list above and beyond the law. Of course, the buyer of the H list will need to abide by the law.  But any additional protections that Interex had are out the window.     G If the law allows a mailing onwer to sell names to other companies, but H interex had a policy of not selling its list, the new onwer will be ableB to sell the list according to the law and not be restricted by the defunct company's rules.    F > The court would be *REQUIRED* to admonish the buyer that the list isH > sold subject to the laws which governed its use by the original owner.  D Actually I am not 100% sure of this. If the backrupted company is inF state A, but a company buys an asset and moved it to state B, wouldn't2 state B's law now regulate the use of that asset ?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 09:56:12 +0800( From: "Fred Jiang" <r54123@motorola.com>X Subject: Re: What's matter with my VMS mail utility, Please help to resolve it,  Thanks.+ Message-ID: <dkbqs3$n8b$1@newshost.mot.com>   J Yes, the mail list is correct, we run multinet as tcpip protocol. also you can see the verify result. Show the logical names here: $ show log *smtp*    (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)    (LNM$JOB_81FE3080)   (LNM$GROUP_000001)   (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)  8   "MULTINET_SMTP_FORWARDER" = "remotesmtp.freescale.net"-   "MULTINET_SMTP_FROM_HOST" = "freescale.com" )   "MULTINET_SMTP_QUEUE" = "MULTINET_SMTP" 2   "MULTINET_SMTP_RETRY_INTERVAL" = "0 00:30:00.00"3   "MULTINET_SMTP_RETURN_INTERVAL" = "4 00:00:00.00" #   "MULTINET_SMTP_SEND_CLASS" = "16" /   "MULTINET_SMTP_SERVER_DISABLE_VRFYEXPN" = "3" *   "SMTP_MAILSHR" = "MULTINET:SMTP_MAILSHR",   "SMTP_MAILSHRP" = "MULTINET:SMTP_MAILSHRP"   (LNM$SYSCLUSTER_TABLE)   (DECW$LOGICAL_NAMES)L ============================================================================  ================================' Run the script here and show the queues  $ ) $ set def mtt_promprod:[prombat3.ssp.cfg] 
 $ set veri $ @aa ; $mail/subject="test1" mtt_promprod:[prombat3.ssp.cfg]aa.txt ( "@mtt_promprod:[prombat3.ssp.cfg]aa.dis"; $mail/subject="test2" mtt_promprod:[prombat3.ssp.cfg]aa.txt ( "@mtt_promprod:[prombat3.ssp.cfg]aa.dis" $exit  $ show queue *smtp*/full" Generic server queue MULTINET_SMTP3   /GENERIC=(SMTP_MTTAI,SMTP_MTHENG) /OWNER=[SYSTEM] ! /PROTECTION=(S:RSM,O:RSD,G:R,W:R)   A Server queue SMTP_MTHENG, idle, on MTHENG::, mounted form DEFAULT A   /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /DEFAULT=(FEED,FORM=DEFAULT) /NOENABLE_GENERIC 1 /OWNER=[SYSTEM] /PROCESSOR=MULTINET_SMTP_SYMBIONT #   /PROTECTION=(S:RSM,O:RSD,G:R,W:R)   ? Server queue SMTP_MTTAI, idle, on MTTAI::, mounted form DEFAULT A   /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /DEFAULT=(FEED,FORM=DEFAULT) /NOENABLE_GENERIC 1 /OWNER=[SYSTEM] /PROCESSOR=MULTINET_SMTP_SYMBIONT #   /PROTECTION=(S:RSM,O:RSD,G:R,W:R)  $   : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:43684287.DECEEB28@teksavvy.com... > Fred Jiang wrote:  > > aa.dis  file contains: > > smtp%aaaa@yahoo.com" > > smtp%bbbb@yahoo.com" > H > Is there a reason for the double quotes at the end of each recipient ? > : > > If I modify the command procedure aa.com as following:* > > $mail/subject="test1" aa.txt "@aa.dis" > > $wait 00:01 * > > $mail/subject="test2" aa.txt "@aa.dis" >  >  > Have you tried( > $mail/subject="test1" aa.txt "@aa.dis" > $!( > $mail/subject="test2" aa.txt "@aa.dis" > G > on VAX VMS 7.2, I am able to have 2 consecutive MAIL command with the , > same syntax as yours and it seems to work. >  >  > D > I would also suggest you $SET VERIFY before you invoke the commandD > procedure and watch not only the actual output, but also any pause > between the lines.   ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 19:34:50 +0000 (UTC)- From: klewis@OMEGA.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis) W Subject: Re: What's matter with my VMS mail utility, Please help to resolve it, Thanks. , Message-ID: <dkb4cq$r$1@newslocal.mitre.org>  z "Fred Jiang" <r54123@motorola.com> writes in article <dk96qa$3v9$1@newshost.mot.com> dated Wed, 2 Nov 2005 10:01:46 +0800: >Hi, VMS Specialists, < >My system is Open VMS 7.3-1 run on DS25 with firmware 6.9-26 >I got a problem here while use vms mail utility here.@ >Let's say I want to send mail to those on the mail list:aa.dis. >aa.dis  file contains:  >smtp%aaaa@yahoo.com"  >smtp%bbbb@yahoo.com"   ( When I tried it with that format, I got 9 %MAIL-E-USERSPEC, invalid user specification 'YAHOO.COM"'   2 I added a " after the %, and both messages worked.  0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 15:28:25 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> B Subject: Re: Will Digital's abandonned software ever go "public" ?, Message-ID: <43692168.5FBFD8D9@teksavvy.com>   David Mathog wrote: I > This is, in my opinion, one of the primary reasons to avoid proprietary < > software and go open source if it is in any way possible.     B The cannabalising of the VMS software under Palmer was a very goodG warning for me. One cannot really trust a vendor for long term software : support unless you're going with very mainstream software.  D And when you consider how many corporations standardised on Windows,E while the technical reasons are flawed, one can be assured of support S and continued evolution of windows for a very long time. Gartner type of decisions.   L Linux takes the other route: unsure today, but you don't depend on a vendor.  G When one considers all of the mergers, acquisitions and bankrupcies, it G is very hard to track software in the long term, unless you go with the  big guys like oracle, SAP etc.      F Consider at DEC, the CDA converter stuff. If they open sourced it, you? could expect porting of some of the newer document supports (in C particular the XML "open document" format, support for more current F versions of image converters etc. And it would provide a great base onE which to build X applications since you already have the jpeg reader, ? gif reader and you coudl easily display any text documehty with G attributes if there is a CDA reader for it. You want to print a picture @ ? convcert /doc dolphin.jpg/format=jpeg dolphin.ddif/format=DDIF- followed by print dolphin.ddif/para=data=ddif     E Instead, the product is allowed to rot. Making it open source doesn't N garantee it will live again. But not making it open source garantees it won't.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.613 ************************