1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 12 Nov 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 631       Contents:% Re: ATI Radeon 7500 & AlphaStation600 % Re: ATI Radeon 7500 & AlphaStation600 ? Re: failSAFE IP - Looks good! Who's using it? (and why/why-not) ? Re: failSAFE IP - Looks good! Who's using it? (and why/why-not) " Re: File spec wildcard match test?" Re: File spec wildcard match test?" Re: File spec wildcard match test?" Re: File spec wildcard match test?C Lack of response on c.o.v. (was:Re: File spec wildcard match test?)  Microvax image to simh?  Re: Microvax image to simh?  Oracle BG TRACE message  Re: Oracle BG TRACE message  Re: Oracle BG TRACE message  Re: Oracle BG TRACE message - Re: Request for feedback - BACKUP enhancement - Re: Request for feedback - BACKUP enhancement ! Strange Network performance issue = Re: Video card Digital PCI ZLXp-L1 compatibility with OpenVMS = Re: Video card Digital PCI ZLXp-L1 compatibility with OpenVMS 7 Re: Will Digital's abandonned software ever go PUBLIC ? 7 Re: Will Digital's abandonned software ever go PUBLIC ? K Re: Will Rich Marcello either come clean or do some proper marketing and PR K Re: Will Rich Marcello either come clean or do some proper marketing and PR P Re: Will Rich Marcello either come clean or do some proper marketing and PR and P Re: Will Rich Marcello either come clean or do some proper marketing and PR and P Re: Will Rich Marcello either come clean or do some proper marketing and PR and P Re: Will Rich Marcello either come clean or do some proper marketing and PR and P Re: Will Rich Marcello either come clean or do some proper marketing and PR and P Re: Will Rich Marcello either come clean or do some proper marketing and PR and J Re: Will Rich Marcello either come clean or do some proper marketingand PRO Re: Will Rich Marcello either come clean or do some proper marketingand PR PRPR J www.dvd100.net  No te Arrepientas,  Todo en Verbatim Traxdata Princo. VIH8  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 15:25:39 -0500 * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>. Subject: Re: ATI Radeon 7500 & AlphaStation600, Message-ID: <4374fe44$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  , > Would an Elsa Gloria Syngergy 8 work then?   Yes.  I "Christoph Gartmann" <gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens> wrote in message # news:dl2ib8$pf8$1@news.BelWue.DE... E > In article <1131726398.340684.143640@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,  jordan@ccs4vms.com writes:J > >The Radeon, as well as the Oxygen cards and Powerstorm 300/350 are onlyH > >supported on EV6 and later systems; some may be more restrictive than > >that. > > I > >Your best bet for more colors on the AS600 would be a Powersotmr 4D20, H > >or alternatively a ZLXp-E2/E3, or ZLXp-L1/L2 (at least until the nextJ > >version of VMS comes out when the Ls are desupported).  I'd try for theI > >4D20, but they are hard to get and still rather pricy due to being the + > >best card available for pre-EV6 systems.  > , > Would an Elsa Gloria Syngergy 8 work then? > 
 > Regards, >    Christoph Gartmann  >  > --  G >  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452  >  ImmunbiologieK >  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de  >  D-79011  Freiburg, Germany ; >                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 13:38:46 -0800 4 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com>. Subject: Re: ATI Radeon 7500 & AlphaStation600$ Message-ID: <1131745116.35506@smirk>   Christoph Gartmann wrote:   , > Would an Elsa Gloria Syngergy 8 work then?  9 I have successfully used it in my AlphaStation 200 4/233, * so it should work in just about any Alpha.   Alan   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Nov 2005 21:35:43 +01006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)H Subject: Re: failSAFE IP - Looks good! Who's using it? (and why/why-not)* Message-ID: <43750eaf@news.langstoeger.at>  h In article <1131730937.991301.200950@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, dave.baxter@bannerhealth.com writes: >Peter, H >        Does this approach also protect you against the simple "someone. >accidentally unplugged the cable" scenario???  = Not at home I'm afraid. Or do you have two switches at home ?  At work, yes it does  G But nevertheless, if you need higher availability, you do usually more. D (Like more than one IP subnets on more than one virtual LAN failover* devices or LAN over FC in addition or ...)   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 23:26:54 GMT 6 From: "Andy Bustamante" <a_c_bustamante@earthlink.net>H Subject: Re: failSAFE IP - Looks good! Who's using it? (and why/why-not)= Message-ID: <2N9df.16767$tV6.4663@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>   K We use failSAFE IP combined with LAN failover in production clusters.  Matt " Muggeridge has a great write up atF http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/journal/v2/articles/tcpip.html whichF provides some failSAFE configuration ideas.  FailSAFE IP provides more$ flexability than the old cluster IP.  K This is a known issue with failSAFE IP and the dedicated lock manager.  The @ fix is out from Colorado, but I'm still waiting for downtime for. installation.  This isn't in a formal ECO yet.     --       Andy Bustamante  Remove the ASCII 95s for e-mail     > "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> wrote in message+ news:dkulc5$mri$1@news-02.connect.com.au...  > Hi,  > I > I came across this "failSAFE IP" documentation the other day and became B > quite interested in the functionality that it provides. My briefL > understanding is that when an interface (or whole other node in a cluster)K > dies it can automatically ifconfig its IP address to another interface in C > the same box (or other box in the cluster). And when the original 	 interface G > becomes available again then it fails back seemlessly-like. Does that  sound  > about right? > J > Leaving aside cluster-aliases and DNS load-balancing servers and all theJ > other good IP-clustering stuff for the moment, is anyone out there using' > failSAFE? Any brick-bats or bouquets?  > G > You're normally all over this sort of stuff Kerry; thumbs up or down?  >  > Regards Richard Maher  >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 15:16:35 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> + Subject: Re: File spec wildcard match test? / Message-ID: <11n9v0o7vetf26@corp.supernews.com>    Larry Kilgallen wrote:\ > In article <11n9igsta294nc3@corp.supernews.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: >  >>Larry Kilgallen wrote: >  > # >>>I believe HP's efforts should be ' >>>concentrated on supported software.   >>I >>For the most part, yes.  However, to totally ignore all other activity  / >>will at times not be good customer relations.  >  > E > They should not ignore other activities.  They should consider what F > features drive people to use unsupported software and consider doing' > the equivalent in supported software.   G The sad facts are, customers don't support vendor activity in the same  C manner we're used to from the 70s and 80s.  VMS engineering cannot  I command the budget to do everything every customer wants/needs.  Even in  I the past everything wasn't available.  Just not possible.  Got to choose  ! your fights carefully these days.   D Surely you don't think that VMS engineering can produce and support H every capability that VMS customers want?  There are limits.  But those H limits should not limit what's available to people.  Thus the freeware, I and some of it quite good and useful.  I see people commenting favorably  ? on such, even the people in VMS engineering.  Just look at the  G acceptance of the DFU (or is it DFO) disk utility.  Freeware.  Happens  9 that the author worked at DEC, I believe.  Not supported.     >>>If people wanted a BACKUP/ZIPG >>>capability that certainly has been delayed by presence of the "free"  >>>version   >>K >>I don't think that's what's being discussed, nor have I personally heard  ) >>any requests for BACKUP to be involved.  >> >>ZIP does two things. >> >>1) it compresses data. >  >  > , > That is what Backup currently does not do. >  > H >>2) it encapsulates data inside a structure with known characteristics. >>F >>The 'archive' can be treated as binary data and transmitted as such J >>while retaining the capability of successfully extracting the data once  >>it reaches it's destination. >  >  > That is what Backup does.  >  > I >>While BACKUP does a similar task, it depends upon file characteristics  J >>outside the 'container', thus rendering it more complex to move outside  >>VMS environments.  >  > C > If you use a transmission method that destroys the metadata, then C > of course things will fail.  There have been command sequences to ; > work around such errors ever since there has been Backup.   I Yep, got some myself.  Short little (unsupported) program that reads the  E blocksize of any save set.  But a ZIP archive, transmitted as binary  8 data, has no metadata to lose, and needs no workarounds.  = >>>(that is "free" only for those who value their own time at 	 >>>zero).  >>) >>Here's where understanding breaks down.  >>( >>There are not charges for the product. >  > @ > And there is no support, so you end up supporting it yourself.@ > Thus it is not "free" unless you value your own labor at zero. >  > F >>As for obtaining the product, installing the product, and using the G >>product, what difference is there between the 'free' product and any  I >>'official' 'supported' product from HP for which you will incur a cost  % >>above that of the freeware product?  >  > ; > Submit a trouble report to HP on the unsupported product.  > Let us know when they fix it.  > F > Or let us know when you figure out how to fix it without any effort.* > (But the figuring out counts as effort.)  D Ok, comprehension hits me over the head.  Your concern is having to G support the freeware.  It seems that the normal response to that issue  G is, if it works, use it, if it doesn't work, don't use it, and in that  E case you aren't out any purchase price.  The only downside is if you  ) 'really' need it to work, and it doesn't.   G Submitting a trouble report to HP takes no effort?   If you're told it  E will be fixed in the next release of the product, how much good does  H that do you today?  You work around the problem, not using the product, , pretty much like freeware that doesn't work.  G Just to state my perspective, I'm not a fan of free software.  Someone  F has put effort into the product, and not too many of us can afford to G work for free.  Unfortunately, too many times people just will not buy  G smaller software products.  Had this conversation with Glenn Everhart,  I who also has written some nice things, and people just wouldn't cough up  G the bucks.  So, sometimes, just to support the community, you make the  + software available without charging for it.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Nov 2005 16:59:47 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) + Subject: Re: File spec wildcard match test? 3 Message-ID: <kORrRqNF2$GV@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Y In article <11n9v0o7vetf26@corp.supernews.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:   F > Surely you don't think that VMS engineering can produce and support J > every capability that VMS customers want?  There are limits.  But those    Only those with wide appeal.  J > limits should not limit what's available to people.  Thus the freeware, ' > and some of it quite good and useful.   C Certainly.  But for those with a mission-critical need, freeware is > not going to be "cheap".  It may be _necessary_ if there is noA supported product to do the same thing.  Freeware is only "cheap" C for those with the freedom to abandon their project if the freeware ' does not immediately do what they want.    > Larry Kilgallen wrote:  D >> If you use a transmission method that destroys the metadata, thenD >> of course things will fail.  There have been command sequences to< >> work around such errors ever since there has been Backup. > K > Yep, got some myself.  Short little (unsupported) program that reads the   > blocksize of any save set.  @ I have always used BACKUP followed by COPY/OVERLAY, avoiding the" need to carry a command procedure.  + > But a ZIP archive, transmitted as binary  : > data, has no metadata to lose, and needs no workarounds.  > But one cannot count on the required software being present on every VMS system.   F > Ok, comprehension hits me over the head.  Your concern is having to I > support the freeware.  It seems that the normal response to that issue  I > is, if it works, use it, if it doesn't work, don't use it, and in that  G > case you aren't out any purchase price.  The only downside is if you  + > 'really' need it to work, and it doesn't.   C Yes, mission-critical computing cannot be based on "hope it works".   I > Just to state my perspective, I'm not a fan of free software.  Someone  H > has put effort into the product, and not too many of us can afford to I > work for free.  Unfortunately, too many times people just will not buy  I > smaller software products.  Had this conversation with Glenn Everhart,  K > who also has written some nice things, and people just wouldn't cough up  I > the bucks.  So, sometimes, just to support the community, you make the  - > software available without charging for it.   > I have no quarrel with donors making their software available.B I am biased against recipients counting on it to meet their needs.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Nov 2005 16:07:27 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>+ Subject: Re: File spec wildcard match test? C Message-ID: <1131754047.199498.316210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>    Steven M. Schweda wrote:/ > From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  > M > > >> To find all files in a directory tree properly, one needs to call RMS.  > > > , > > >    Which is not what I'm trying to do. > > E > > I did not notice an English language description of what you were $ > > trying to do.  Please elaborate. > J >    At the risk of boring those who were paying attention, as I recall, I" > wrote (10-NOV-2005 00:31:47.24):   LOL!   > J > >    Is there an easy way (RMS service, or something else already extantD > > in VMS V5.4, say) to test a particular file spec against a given. > > wildcard file spec?  That is, for example: > > G > >    wild_match( "[.a.b.c]fred.dat", "[...b...]fred.*")  /* (true) */ H > >    wild_match( "[.a.b.c]fred.dat", "[...b]fred.*")     /* (false) */ >  > Q > > >> >    Has anyone else noticed that "Zip -x" (or "-i") doesn't deal properly ( > > >> > with "..." in a directory spec? > > >>D > > >> I thought there were multiple implementations of Zip for VMS. > > > I > > >    I refer to the Info-ZIP Zip.  You have in mind which other ones? 4 > > > (GNU zip, which lacks "-i" and "-x", perhaps?) > >  > > I am not a Zip user. > I >    Is there something about me personally which attracts useless advice G > from people who admit not knowing anything about the subject on which D > they offer advice?  Or is it something about Zip?  If I knew, then) > perhaps I could take appropriate steps.   F I hear you! I have gotten the full range of understanding to my posts.= Sometimes I get exactly the answer I need. Other times people D completely misunderstand me and post stuff that is of no help. Still other times I get nothing.  B E.g., I recently posted a question about why I can't get my DECnetD configurators to work. No response at all. Is it really true that noE one who reads cov can answer this question? Have all the configurator E experts put me in their kill file? Oh well. Maybe the configurator is A just a joke: It doesn't really work, but simply pads the manual a B little. ;-) (Just kidding.) Maybe I'll try ITRC or Ask the Wizard.  E Perhaps people aren't responding because of another misunderstanding: G my question about a node dropping itself. I asked: what does that mean? F Instead, I get people trying to diagnose my whole network. Not meaningC to be ungrateful, I was trying to steer things back to just what it E means for a node to drop itself. To me, it's like someone standing up C and shouting "I am not going to talk or listen to myself anymore so A everyone take notice!" (!) I guess the meaning of a node dropping > itself is so obvious to most they think I must be asking for aC diagnosis. The other problem is my network is part of a much larger E network and I don't know all the details of everything in the network D and no one at work in the network group is going to take the time toF answer such questions for me. I tried to answer people's questions butA I guess I came up short and everyone just sort of gave up at some D point. Networks is my weak suit (making my answering their questions0 more difficult) and I am trying to catch up. OK.  C I also once asked about the mysterious default input/output streams B table for SPAWN/INPUT and SPAWN/OUTPUT. No one seems to know aboutB this. Maybe this table is the same as that weird thing in older ONE documentation saying something like "to specify a control/y interrupt F specify CRTL/Y". Just something mysterious that somehow wanderred intoE the documentation. Well, the mysterious CTRL/Y statement is gone from F at least 6.2 and later but the spawn tables are still there. The SPAWN question involves this:   A "Note that when NRO PPFs are used as implicit input (that is, the B /INPUT qualifier is not specified and SYS$INPUT is a NRO PPF), the= SPAWN command can succeed, as shown in the following table: "   F What NRO PPF's. SYS$INPUT? SH DEV shows that "TT" is a record-oriented6 thing. What does it mean? When is SYS$INPUT a NRO PPF?  D In another thread I started someone insisted I reveal who I was. Now5 how is THAT going to help solve the problem???!!! :-)   G Now I'm reading this post and I can "feel your pain". Some are equating E '*' with '...'. Others are looking for actual matching files when all D you want is to see if a given non-wildcard file-spec matches a givenG wildcard file-spec or not. Again, an answer from someone who can't help F you !!! but at least I understand (or think I do) the problem posed! IC think you're trying to fix the zip equivalent of /EXCLUDE. And then ! there's the free vs. pay sidebar.   F I also find out that Google Groups actually has something that anotherC newsreader doesn't (I mean beside the years-long archive and stupid  bugs and stupid features.)  B Then there's the 'infamous' am/pm thread which I never intended to@ start or nourish but people kept posting posts that showed grossB misunderstanding of what I was trying to say or claimed I was deadG wrong. Maybe I was unclear. Maybe some couldn't read. I don't know. But B I couldn't just let everyone misunderstand me! And I felt I had toG defend myself against accusations of being dead wrong. (Maybe those who E killfiled me for the am/pm bit are exactly the configurator experts!)   C Anyway, good luck with your problem. Sorry, but I can't help you!!!    > H >    On the bright side, it's getting harder not to be an UnZip user, asD > many patch kits are now being distributed as self-extracting UnZip: > archives.  (Using an obsolete UnZip version, of course.) >  > > [... blather ...] I > > What price are you willing to pay for such a quality implementation ? A > > I am sure that will affect whether people jump into the fray.  > G >    Never mind.  I'll just keep working on it myself.  You can work on 2 > whatever you want when and as you feel the need.  C I'll give 10 quatloos. (Sorry, can't resists a chance to bring Star B Trek into the discussion!) And thanks for the great laugh session.   > J > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > 6 >    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98185 >    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org  >    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    AEF    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Nov 2005 17:50:07 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>+ Subject: Re: File spec wildcard match test? C Message-ID: <1131760207.333423.233170@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>    Steven M. Schweda wrote:> > From: "Hein RMS van den Heuvel" <heinvandenheuvel@gmail.com> > A > > As par as that base problem goes, I think that SYS$PARSE with I > > NAM$V_SYNCHK is as close as you are going to get with system services ; > > to help you normalize & parse a user provided filespec.  > ; >    I'm starting to lean that way.  More thought required.  > D > > While dabling in this space, maybe you spot some ''easy' regularC > > expression code allowing your end user more elaborate selection 
 > > criteria?  > J >    Maybe not.  Just trying to match the current non-VMS functionality inG > Zip with normal VMS user expectations (mine).  The ODS5 extended file H > name escape syntax ("^") causes trouble for the existing code, too, asG > it tends to think one character at a time.  Everything's complicated.     2 OK, good. Your request should really be clear now.    / > From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  > J > > For each file, you might be able to build some sys$parse that uses theL > > $SEARCH result and the /exclude with proper use of defeault, related andE > > actual specs to test if the $SEARCH result would result in $PARSE > > > finding the file (hence telling you to exclude that file). > F >    I don't want to do a $SEARCH here, just check an already searchedF > name.  The goal is to make it work better, not to re-write the whole
 > program. > & > > Again, this is just brainstorming. >   >    Call off the cloud seeding.     LOL, I love it!     / > From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  > L > > >    And "[*.m]" would match "[a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.l.m]" as well as it > > > would "[a.m]". > > 8 > > In normal VMS usage [...m] will match both of those. > E >    And "[*.m]" wouldn't.  I think that that was my point.  Or did I  > misunderstand me?      Good.   @ Well, you did miss a question mark or a ;-) right after "[a.m]".    A > > I think you need to describe the matching semantics you want.  > J >    I think "[n]ormal VMS usage" covers it pretty well.  Which news group > is this?  Am I lost?    - Creme de la creme. It doesn't get any better!   G Thank you so much. But please, do give some warning next time. I almost ) stopped breathing I was laughing so hard!    Brilliant delivery, thank you.   "Am I lost?" you ask.   D Meet Mr. Steven M. Schweda. A VMS programmer in St. Paul, Minnesota,E working on making the exclude qualifier of zip finally work correctly C for the ellipsis wildcard string. Doing a great service for the VMS F community. But he comes to a stumbling block. Goes to c.o.v. to try toF get some answers, but finds, instead, ...do-do-do-do do-do-do-do...  A> signpost on the road ahead. Your next stop: The Twilight Zone.  G Hey, that's the best I can do after being laugh-deprived of oxygen. ;-)    > J > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > 6 >    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98185 >    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org  >    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    AEF    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 20:14:05 -0500 % From: BRAD <bradhamilton@comcast.net> L Subject: Lack of response on c.o.v. (was:Re: File spec wildcard match test?)* Message-ID: <437541DD.8050607@comcast.net>  
 AEF wrote: <snip>H > I hear you! I have gotten the full range of understanding to my posts.? > Sometimes I get exactly the answer I need. Other times people F > completely misunderstand me and post stuff that is of no help. Still > other times I get nothing. > D > E.g., I recently posted a question about why I can't get my DECnetF > configurators to work. No response at all. Is it really true that noG > one who reads cov can answer this question? Have all the configurator G > experts put me in their kill file? Oh well. Maybe the configurator is C > just a joke: It doesn't really work, but simply pads the manual a D > little. ;-) (Just kidding.) Maybe I'll try ITRC or Ask the Wizard.  G Perhaps not many folks are left who know the answer to your question -  F after all, it _is_ about DECnet ("Phase IV", as well!); by the time I I started working as a System Mangler in the late 1990s, the network staff  I at my company had no clue what "decknet" was, and supported IP only.  To  C save ourselves much heartache, my colleagues and I spent much time  A making sure the application needed as little use of "decknet" as  H possible.  I decided that learning the ins and outs of Phase IV (and V) # was not worth it to me (or my job).   D I appreciate your feelings, including the rant that follows; I just E decided that it wasn't worth the time or energy tilting at windmills.   ( "Forget it, Jake... It's Chinatown."	:-)   <snip>   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 17:55:27 -0800 1 From: Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R <caf@omen.com>   Subject: Microvax image to simh?5 Message-ID: <pan.2005.11.12.01.55.26.154244@omen.com>   8 I have a MicrovaxII with dectape and magtape running 5.48 something or other.  It is getting long in the tooth and8 took quite a while to get it going the last time I tried
 to use it.    6 Against the odd chance that a customer would like some2 upgrade to VAX Zmodem, I would like to write out a8 complete bootable system restore tape which I could then: convert to SIMH format and load into simh.  How might this	 be done??  --  < Chuck Forsberg    caf@omen.com   www.omen.com   503-614-0430< Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications:   Omen Technology Inc      "The High Reliability Software"< 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   FAX 629-0665   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Nov 2005 19:34:05 -0800* From: "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net>$ Subject: Re: Microvax image to simh?C Message-ID: <1131766445.503918.222580@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   # Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R wrote: : > I have a MicrovaxII with dectape and magtape running 5.4: > something or other.  It is getting long in the tooth and: > took quite a while to get it going the last time I tried > to use it.  E Simh will perform up to 20 times as fast on current PC hardware under  simh as a real Microvax II.    > 8 > Against the odd chance that a customer would like some4 > upgrade to VAX Zmodem, I would like to write out a: > complete bootable system restore tape which I could then< > convert to SIMH format and load into simh.  How might this > be done??   D Backup/image the boot disk of your MVII to a backup saveset. InstallE VMS and Boot simh using the documented procedures (or just boot stand F alone backup) and restore the image to another virtual disk. Boot simh from the oher disk  F VMS can read an ISO fomat CD so you can copy the backup saveset to cd.D Zip and unzip the saveset on VMS to retain RMS info. Or just installB VMS under siimh, get networking up and backup the system disk over- decnet to another disk under simh  then boot.  > --> > Chuck Forsberg    caf@omen.com   www.omen.com   503-614-0430  ( Good to see you are stiill around Chuck.  > > Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications< >   Omen Technology Inc      "The High Reliability Software"> > 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231   FAX 629-0665   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Nov 2005 11:51:24 -0800+ From: "chenster000" <chenster000@gmail.com>   Subject: Oracle BG TRACE messageC Message-ID: <1131738684.130017.214560@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   4 I got following message in the Oracle BG TRACE file:  - *** SESSION ID:(23.1) 2005-10-30 21:30:49.990 5 Could not a write message to alert file, probably too  busy.  (VMS error was: 98954): . The message will be written to this trace file instead:2 ARC0: Evaluating archive   log 3 thread 1 sequence 157487   *** 2005-10-30 21:31:32.073   4 Would you please let me know what this message mean?   Thanks   David    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Nov 2005 15:54:00 -0500/ From: brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks) $ Subject: Re: Oracle BG TRACE message- Message-ID: <GMCfHscTGusH@cuebid.zko.dec.com>   - "chenster000" <chenster000@gmail.com> writes: 6 > I got following message in the Oracle BG TRACE file: > / > *** SESSION ID:(23.1) 2005-10-30 21:30:49.990 7 > Could not a write message to alert file, probably too  > busy.  > (VMS error was: 98954): 0 > The message will be written to this trace file
 > instead:4 > ARC0: Evaluating archive   log 3 thread 1 sequence > 157487 >  > *** 2005-10-30 21:31:32.073  > 6 > Would you please let me know what this message mean?   $ exit 989541 %RMS-E-FLK, file currently locked by another user    --    M Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.dec.com    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Nov 2005 13:19:26 -0800; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> $ Subject: Re: Oracle BG TRACE messageB Message-ID: <1131743966.625222.77990@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   Rob Brooks wrote: / > "chenster000" <chenster000@gmail.com> writes: 8 > > I got following message in the Oracle BG TRACE file: > > 1 > > *** SESSION ID:(23.1) 2005-10-30 21:30:49.990 9 > > Could not a write message to alert file, probably too 	 > > busy.  > > (VMS error was: 98954): 2 > > The message will be written to this trace file > > instead:6 > > ARC0: Evaluating archive   log 3 thread 1 sequence
 > > 157487 > >  > > *** 2005-10-30 21:31:32.073  > > 8 > > Would you please let me know what this message mean? >  > $ exit 989543 > %RMS-E-FLK, file currently locked by another user  >  > -- > O > Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.dec.com   D So that means that somebody has/had your alert-<sid>.log file in theE Oracle [???.admin.bdump] directory locked against writing when Oracle ' wanted to write some information to it.    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Nov 2005 13:41:01 -0800< From: "Hein RMS van den Heuvel" <heinvandenheuvel@gmail.com>$ Subject: Re: Oracle BG TRACE messageC Message-ID: <1131745261.621262.209090@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    fwiw....  & This topic is from the same author as:  o http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/browse_frm/thread/420aacd5a53dea79/bbd9c1661fd45f58#bbd9c1661fd45f58    Over there is reads:  F "Would you please let me know if I read the Oralce Alert.log file fromE the EDIT /EDT with the CHANGE command, but didn't made any changes to B the Oracle Alert.log file for about two hours, will this cause theF Oracle database hang? Oracle also has to write the Archive informationG to the same file(Alert.log). The oracle database is up and running. The   C only information that has been written to the Alert.log file is the ! Archive information at that time. > After I exit from editing without any changes. All the archive6 information is still intack within the Alert.log file.    # Thank you very much for your help.       David "    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 20:50:44 +0100 & From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>6 Subject: Re: Request for feedback - BACKUP enhancement+ Message-ID: <3tkb0lFte96dU1@individual.net>    Dave Froble wrote: > JF Mezei wrote:  > " >> google@van-ruitenbeek.nl wrote: >>= >>> The snapshot can be avoid if you are using shadow-sets !   >> >> >> >>K >> One issue to consider in this however is $$$$$. Can you justify spending I >> the big bucks for disk shadowing licence only so you can do a backup ?  >  > I > Wrong issue.  The question is justifying the $$$$$ to allow you to run  G > 24 x 365.  If that's what you need, and you can justify spending the  ! > $$$$$, then that's what you do.  > J > A backup taken on a running system is a waste of time and effort.  Data ( > files will be out of sync.  Worthless.  9 No they won't be out of sync if you close databases down,    > J > Doing a backup is mandatory, for anyone with retained data.  Protecting I > against data loss with shadowing doesn't protect against the fire that  H > takes out the whole system.  Only offsite data, and/or multiple sites H > with data shadowed on both sites may do that.  Even multiple sites do J > not protect against loss of data through application and/or user errors. > G > I can see the tax people now.  "What do you mean that you don't have  ? > supporting data for this $20,000,000 deduction?  Disallowed!"  >   1 Giving that example is just being sensationalist.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 20:51:53 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 6 Subject: Re: Request for feedback - BACKUP enhancement0 Message-ID: <11nailcc9qdq270@corp.supernews.com>   Paul Sture wrote:  > Dave Froble wrote: >  >> JF Mezei wrote: >># >>> google@van-ruitenbeek.nl wrote:  >>> > >>>> The snapshot can be avoid if you are using shadow-sets !  >>>  >>>  >>>  >>>  >>> L >>> One issue to consider in this however is $$$$$. Can you justify spendingJ >>> the big bucks for disk shadowing licence only so you can do a backup ? >> >> >>J >> Wrong issue.  The question is justifying the $$$$$ to allow you to run H >> 24 x 365.  If that's what you need, and you can justify spending the " >> $$$$$, then that's what you do. >>F >> A backup taken on a running system is a waste of time and effort.  . >> Data files will be out of sync.  Worthless. >  > ; > No they won't be out of sync if you close databases down,   B Hmmm, asking delicately, what part of 'running system' didn't you H understand?  If users need to be using the applications full time, then = data files, databases, and such are constantly being updated.   @ >> Doing a backup is mandatory, for anyone with retained data.  G >> Protecting against data loss with shadowing doesn't protect against  H >> the fire that takes out the whole system.  Only offsite data, and/or F >> multiple sites with data shadowed on both sites may do that.  Even J >> multiple sites do not protect against loss of data through application  >> and/or user errors. >>H >> I can see the tax people now.  "What do you mean that you don't have @ >> supporting data for this $20,000,000 deduction?  Disallowed!" >> > 3 > Giving that example is just being sensationalist.   G Yes it is.  That said, it's still valid, and regardless of value, lost   data is just that, lost data.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 18:39:02 -0800 ( From: Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net>* Subject: Strange Network performance issue0 Message-ID: <BF9A95C6.17B7D%roktsci@comcast.net>  K I'm having a very Strange Network issue concerning performance that I would 9 like to solicit comments and suggestions from all of you.   0 I have three separate VMS systems outlined here:  
 Node: MAUI VAXStation 3100  VMS 5.6  10Base-T Ethernet FDX   
 Node: PELE
 Alpha DS20	 VMS 7.3-2  100Base-T Ethernet FDX   Node: KUPUA 
 Alpha 2100	 VMS 7.3-1  100Base-T Ethernet FDX  3 All nodes are running Decnet Phase IV and Multinet.   J Nodes are connected through a single common Hub and all reside on the sameK IP subnet. All hub ports have Auto-Negotiate disabled, and Full Duplex set. 0 They also all share the same DECNet Area number.  G The hub makes a connection to the company LAN. The idea was to keep the 4 Decnet and Intra-VMS IP traffic off the Company LAN.  K Decnet Copy and FTP Speeds are consistent with one another, and shown here:    MAUI <-> PELE  : 250K Bytes/Sec  MAUI <-> KUPUA : 250K Bytes/Sec  PELE <-> KUPUA :  17K Bytes/Sec   B FTP speeds from PCs located on different IP subnet on company LAN:   PCs  <-> MAUI  : 242K Bytes/Sec  PCs  <-> PELE  : 247K Bytes/Sec  PCs  <-> KUPUA : 245K Bytes/Sec   L The question is why is the throughput between the two Alpha's with 100Base-T  so abysmally slow, DECNet or IP?  
 Any ideas?   Thank you in advance.  Jeff Cameron   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 15:23:50 -0500 * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>F Subject: Re: Video card Digital PCI ZLXp-L1 compatibility with OpenVMS, Message-ID: <4374fdd7$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>   The tale of Open3D and Open3D.  8 In the way-back machine, Digital Equipment (aka DEC) had= a workstation group, and in that group a graphics group. They ; did both hardware and software development for primarily 3D < graphics devices. They released this support using a layered: product called Open3D.  The license for Open3D enabled it.  < Fast forward.  The workstation group moved to purely x86 and< Windows.  3D hardware was obtained from third party vendors.9 The software support for the 3D graphics was moved to the $ Operating System groups (VMS/Tru64).  9 For VMS, the best way to develop and ship was to make the ? software a part of the base OS, and enable it with the license. ; So 3D cards starting with the Powerstorm 300 had the "bits" . included - all you need to add is the license.  ; For older cards - like the Pixelvision (ZLXp-L*) the "bits" > remained in the old layered product kit - due to the fact that8 the build environment for them was too complex to easily9 move it into the standard VMS build environment (it was a 7 hybrid environment that used some UNIX tools, MMS, hand 8 rolled command procedures, and even some hand tweaking).  : So.  You need both the license *and* the Open3D LP kit forB the older cards.  I think the latest, and last kit is V4.9b and it= should install on V7.1, and on V7.3-2 (although *some* of the 8 cards - in-particular the ZLXp-E (TGA2) may need a patch) if you are using Motif later than V1.2-6.   / The cards supported by this kit are pretty old.       3 "pbritto" <britto.paulo@gmail.com> wrote in message = news:1131726528.765982.267100@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... C > I think I've got Open3D licensed, but I still get the message "no I > graphics device found", once someone told me to SET WINDOW_STATE = 1, I ? > did but still the DECWindow not starting. Any clue of what is H > happening, it's a fresh OpenVMS installation, I have just installed soF > it's a standard installation (flags and config startup files are all > default).  >  > Michael Kraemer escreveu:  > L > > In article <4374ada3$1@news.langstoeger.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN'  > > LANGSTOEGER) writes: > > I > > > IIRC, the ZLXp-L1 is a 3D card (which required Open3D - product and 	 license). K > > > Now as Open3D is discontinued (just as the ZLXp-L1) you have only the L > > > option of using an old version of OpenVMS/DWMOTIF/OPEN3D (I don't knowC > > > if V7.1 is old enough, but I really think so - V7.3-2/V8.* is 
 definitely) > > > too new) or replacing your ZLXp-L1.  > >  > > what about the ZLXp-L2 ? >    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Nov 2005 22:09:28 +01006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)F Subject: Re: Video card Digital PCI ZLXp-L1 compatibility with OpenVMS, Message-ID: <43751698$1@news.langstoeger.at>  n In article <1131726528.765982.267100@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "pbritto" <britto.paulo@gmail.com> writes:B >I think I've got Open3D licensed, but I still get the message "no  2 	$ SHOW LICENSE OPEN3D/FULL	! will make this clear  H >graphics device found", once someone told me to SET WINDOW_STATE = 1, I> >did but still the DECWindow not starting. Any clue of what isG >happening, it's a fresh OpenVMS installation, I have just installed so E >it's a standard installation (flags and config startup files are all 
 >default).  ; Did you install MOTIF at VMS installation time (or later) ? ' Did you install Open3D kit afterwards ?   ; Without it, then it is no wonder that MOTIF won't start ;-)    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 17:40:40 -0500 ( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>@ Subject: Re: Will Digital's abandonned software ever go PUBLIC ?/ Message-ID: <00A4CA6F.7F00B730.1@tachysoft.com>   ( >From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> >X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsC >Subject: Re: Will Digital's abandonned software ever go "public" ? & >Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 12:05:56 -0500     >Michael Kraemer wrote: F >> In article <1131688383.361011.141240@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, >> phil@rephil.org writes: >>  G >>>Incidentally, I think that coding this tight is one thing that makes I >>>for the reliability of RSX and VMS, and my personal bias is to suggest C >>>that just becuase memory's cheap doesn't mean that coding should C >>>necessariy be approached any differently -- but that's just (my)  >>>armchair philosophy.  >>   >>  > >> OTOH, this "art" of tight coding may conserve memory space,K >> but wastes a lot of human resources. Not only man-hours (-days ?) of the G >> actual coder, but even more so the expensive working time of his/her E >> followers, trying to understand the tricks of the original author. J >> Also, I don't see why such coding practices would increase reliability," >> the contrary seems to be true.  > J >When a programmer spends the time to fully test and understand the code, E >then there are far fewer chances of errors.  A single look can miss  I >things.  Going through something multiple times, in detail, will expose   >things.    
 Of course.  N I think the point was that the code is *unnecessarily* complicated and obtuse,O requiring much more study, and therefore much more time, than would be required  with more straightforward code.    Wayne O =============================================================================== N Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738   wayne@tachysoft.com; http://www.tachysoft.com/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html    O =============================================================================== P Jake Blues:"You traded the Caddy for a microphone? ...... Okay, I can buy that."   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 21:22:05 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> @ Subject: Re: Will Digital's abandonned software ever go PUBLIC ?0 Message-ID: <11nakdt731cf452@corp.supernews.com>   Wayne Sewell wrote: ) >>From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  >>X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms D >>Subject: Re: Will Digital's abandonned software ever go "public" ?' >>Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 12:05:56 -0500  >  >  >  >>Michael Kraemer wrote: >>F >>>In article <1131688383.361011.141240@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, >>>phil@rephil.org writes: >>>  >>> H >>>>Incidentally, I think that coding this tight is one thing that makesJ >>>>for the reliability of RSX and VMS, and my personal bias is to suggestD >>>>that just becuase memory's cheap doesn't mean that coding shouldD >>>>necessariy be approached any differently -- but that's just (my) >>>>armchair philosophy. >>>  >>> > >>>OTOH, this "art" of tight coding may conserve memory space,K >>>but wastes a lot of human resources. Not only man-hours (-days ?) of the G >>>actual coder, but even more so the expensive working time of his/her E >>>followers, trying to understand the tricks of the original author. J >>>Also, I don't see why such coding practices would increase reliability," >>>the contrary seems to be true.  >>K >>When a programmer spends the time to fully test and understand the code,  F >>then there are far fewer chances of errors.  A single look can miss J >>things.  Going through something multiple times, in detail, will expose 	 >>things.  >  >  >  > Of course. > P > I think the point was that the code is *unnecessarily* complicated and obtuse,Q > requiring much more study, and therefore much more time, than would be required ! > with more straightforward code.   < That would depend upon whether there were adequate comments.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Nov 2005 12:48:41 -0800* From: "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net>T Subject: Re: Will Rich Marcello either come clean or do some proper marketing and PRB Message-ID: <1131742121.395220.54690@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   Dave Froble wrote:  B > A few?  With the recent info on that infamous "gutter press" TheC > Inquirer that last quarter AMD outsold Intel on the desktop, (not G > including Dell, so I don't understand the claim), I'd think that most & > Intel executives are focused on x86.  !  I think the writer is being coy.    --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 21:21:41 -0600 , From: "Dave Gudewicz" <k9jdk@NOSPAMarrl.net>T Subject: Re: Will Rich Marcello either come clean or do some proper marketing and PR: Message-ID: <O7SdnRIugJVRwujenZ2dnUVZ_tednZ2d@comcast.com>  5 "Dave Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message  * news:11nak3da33i36d3@corp.supernews.com... > Bill Todd wrote: >> Dave Froble wrote:  >> >>> Alan Greig wrote:  >>> I >>>> Up until now, Marcello - who I used to see as a good guy - has just  M >>>> responded with "gutter press" insults at publications daring to suggest  K >>>> all is not well with Itanium. If the chip isn't dying then it's about  L >>>> time he resigned and was replaced with someone who can actually market L >>>> the thing successfully. If he knows it's dying then it is time to come  >>>> clean or resign.  >>>  >>>  >>> F >>> Not everyone can afford to take the moral 'high ground' in such a  >>> manner.  >> >>M >> Why, of course not!  I mean, expecting morality from people when it might  7 >> actually prove inconvenient for them - what an idea!  >>G >> Until our society (that starts with us, folks) is willing to create  K >> conditions where *not* acting morally is what turns out to be difficult  M >> to 'afford', we'll get precisely the kind of behavior from executives and  M >> politicians that we deserve - and continue to deserve the contempt of the  L >> rest of the world for the gross disparity between our empty rhetoric and . >> our actual behavior which we already enjoy. >>L >> That's what holding cHumPaq accountable for its cavalierly broken solemn K >> promises and blatantly self-serving lies has always been about:  making  K >> immorality unprofitable and in fact the more expensive choice.  Turning  L >> around and giving Marcello a 'pass' for his current enthusiastic embrace K >> of attack-spin just because at some time in the past his heart may have  H >> been in something resembling the right place (though we have no real M >> proof one way or the other) is hardly consistent with deploring such acts  5 >> in others (as ISTR you have not been loath to do).  >>	 >> - bill  > 8 > Entertaining, but lets stick to this particular issue. > L > Do you feel that Richard Marcello has had in the past, has now, or in the L > near future anything to say about what hardware will be available for VMS? > " > As for me, I seriously doubt it. > K > He's a guy in the middle, and if you want to search for a victum, he's a  H > prime candidate.  He's had Alpha jerked out from under him.  He's had L > people tell him what hardware he can have.  He's had people tell him what   > kind of advertising he can do. > J > What's he to do?  What he knows is what he's doing.  Should he tell his M > bosses they're a bunch of idiots (which they are/were), quit his job, have  M > the bank repo his house and car, and live in an empty cardboard box in the   > alley? > L > I've known other people is similar situations.  At times I despised them. G > I've learned that not everyone can give up the paycheck their family  - > depends upon, and am a bit less judgmental.  > K > Now, if you want me to condemn those who actually made the decisions, to  J > jeprodize their customers, cost their customers significant investment, L > and might cost them even more, then yeah, I'll do that.  Names like curly J > and carly.  Oh, and that nitwit chief technology idiot, who has forever ( > tarnished the term 'chief technology'. >   M I think its safe to say (and obvious) that Marcello's attention is no longer  K focused on VMS as it once was.  I wonder if he gives VMS equal time in the  E mix of stuff he's responsible for  now.  Boils down to $$, as always.    Dave...    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 15:38:48 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Y Subject: Re: Will Rich Marcello either come clean or do some proper marketing and PR and  0 Message-ID: <11na0aapnholic5@corp.supernews.com>   Alan Greig wrote: F > Up until now, Marcello - who I used to see as a good guy - has just J > responded with "gutter press" insults at publications daring to suggest H > all is not well with Itanium. If the chip isn't dying then it's about I > time he resigned and was replaced with someone who can actually market  I > the thing successfully. If he knows it's dying then it is time to come   > clean or resign.  B Not everyone can afford to take the moral 'high ground' in such a H manner.  Hey, the guy has a job, and he does what his boss tells him to C do.  If they say "push the itanic", then that's his job.  Mortgage  I payments come around every month, whether you dislike the itanic, or not.   F Remember that Richard has always been basically a software guy.  He's G never had the option of deciding what hardware to use.  Still doesn't.   That's someone else's call.   B The person(s) that stuck us with the itanic and killed Alpha have G already been replaced.  Unfortunately, they were firebugs, and even if  F today's management wanted to, some of those bridges just aren't there H anymore.  Say they wanted to fall back to Alpha.  How could they do so? F   The experienced chip engineers are gone, and I doubt even one would E return.  Getting the pink slip rarely leaves one with a good feeling.   F Same issues with marketing.  Advertising costs money.  Lots of money. 4 Can't spend what management won't give you to spend.  : > Especially if he expects VMS to die with it. Or are the * > following quotes "gutter press" as well? > ? > Microsoft Certified Professional Magazine - 9th November 2005 = > http://www.mcpmag.com/columns/article.asp?EditorialsID=1142  > E > "64-bit vs. 32-bit. Intels 64-bit Itanium is dying fast except in  A > mega-high-end database server platforms; x64 is where its at."  >  > ===  > " > ITWeek (VNU) - 4th November 2005G > http://www.vnunet.com/itweek/comment/2145558/wants-itanium-processors  > H > "While most Intel executives are generally loyal to the Itanium chip, F > there is no shortage of independent observers who think the chip is E > about to be killed off. There are even more IT directors and chief  J > technology officers who tell anyone who will listen that the Itanium is H > not an attractive proposition. In recent times there have even been a J > few Intel executives who seem more focused on x86 compatible chips such # > as the Xeon than on the Itanium." 	 > =======   A A few?  With the recent info on that infamous "gutter press" The  B Inquirer that last quarter AMD outsold Intel on the desktop, (not F including Dell, so I don't understand the claim), I'd think that most $ Intel executives are focused on x86.  E > This fantasy that there are just a few disgruntled nutters causing  C > trouble in comp.os.vms has to end now. It's time someone started   > answering some questions.  >   E How dare we suggest that the emporor's new cloths are something less  
 than reality?    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 16:23:08 -0500 ' From: Glenn Everhart <Everhart@gce.com> Y Subject: Re: Will Rich Marcello either come clean or do some proper marketing and PR and  , Message-ID: <jI6dnTMV-JkRkejeRVn-hw@rcn.net>  E In the background I suspect is still the spectre that a vitalized VMS H marketing effort must to be sensible start talking about things VMS doesH well and pointing out that other systems do them less well. Security andE clustering (including galaxy) support would be my poster children for G such marketing. This stands a very good chance of not being pleasing to A Microsoft, which has been reported to be quite unscrupulous about F its tactics toward competitors. Unfortunately Compaq and HP are likelyF vulnerable to such pressure. Hence (maybe and in part) the interest inM moving to a hardware platform Microsoft is not apparently very interested in.   M At times I wonder though whether a better move might be toward the processors L the PS3 is to be using, which have right now NO candidate OS that is capableI of industrial grade security that I have heard of. (There could easily be D one I have not heard of.) There would need to be though considerableI rework to take advantage of a platform that different, but it seems to me K that marketing is unlikely to materialize just now in an area where one has K to "diss" windows to proclaim the goodness of VMS. Something that is just a L bit off the wall like this could be worth a try, in a game where the options are not numerous.    Glenn Everhart   Dave Froble wrote: > Alan Greig wrote:  > G >> Up until now, Marcello - who I used to see as a good guy - has just  C >> responded with "gutter press" insults at publications daring to  F >> suggest all is not well with Itanium. If the chip isn't dying then E >> it's about time he resigned and was replaced with someone who can  J >> actually market the thing successfully. If he knows it's dying then it # >> is time to come clean or resign.  >  > D > Not everyone can afford to take the moral 'high ground' in such a J > manner.  Hey, the guy has a job, and he does what his boss tells him to E > do.  If they say "push the itanic", then that's his job.  Mortgage  K > payments come around every month, whether you dislike the itanic, or not.  > H > Remember that Richard has always been basically a software guy.  He's I > never had the option of deciding what hardware to use.  Still doesn't.   > That's someone else's call.  > D > The person(s) that stuck us with the itanic and killed Alpha have I > already been replaced.  Unfortunately, they were firebugs, and even if  H > today's management wanted to, some of those bridges just aren't there J > anymore.  Say they wanted to fall back to Alpha.  How could they do so? G >  The experienced chip engineers are gone, and I doubt even one would  G > return.  Getting the pink slip rarely leaves one with a good feeling.  > H > Same issues with marketing.  Advertising costs money.  Lots of money. 6 > Can't spend what management won't give you to spend. > E >> Especially if he expects VMS to die with it. Or are the following  ! >> quotes "gutter press" as well?  >>@ >> Microsoft Certified Professional Magazine - 9th November 2005> >> http://www.mcpmag.com/columns/article.asp?EditorialsID=1142 >>F >> "64-bit vs. 32-bit. Intels 64-bit Itanium is dying fast except in B >> mega-high-end database server platforms; x64 is where its at." >> >> === >># >> ITWeek (VNU) - 4th November 2005 H >> http://www.vnunet.com/itweek/comment/2145558/wants-itanium-processors >>I >> "While most Intel executives are generally loyal to the Itanium chip,  G >> there is no shortage of independent observers who think the chip is  F >> about to be killed off. There are even more IT directors and chief H >> technology officers who tell anyone who will listen that the Itanium J >> is not an attractive proposition. In recent times there have even been H >> a few Intel executives who seem more focused on x86 compatible chips ) >> such as the Xeon than on the Itanium." 
 >> ======= >  > C > A few?  With the recent info on that infamous "gutter press" The  D > Inquirer that last quarter AMD outsold Intel on the desktop, (not H > including Dell, so I don't understand the claim), I'd think that most & > Intel executives are focused on x86. > F >> This fantasy that there are just a few disgruntled nutters causing D >> trouble in comp.os.vms has to end now. It's time someone started  >> answering some questions. >> > G > How dare we suggest that the emporor's new cloths are something less   > than reality?  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 19:02:06 -0500 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>Y Subject: Re: Will Rich Marcello either come clean or do some proper marketing and PR and  G Message-ID: <2s-dnVQIIo-crOjenZ2dnUVZ_vidnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com>    Dave Froble wrote: > Alan Greig wrote:  > G >> Up until now, Marcello - who I used to see as a good guy - has just  C >> responded with "gutter press" insults at publications daring to  F >> suggest all is not well with Itanium. If the chip isn't dying then E >> it's about time he resigned and was replaced with someone who can  J >> actually market the thing successfully. If he knows it's dying then it # >> is time to come clean or resign.  >  > D > Not everyone can afford to take the moral 'high ground' in such a 	 > manner.   D Why, of course not!  I mean, expecting morality from people when it : might actually prove inconvenient for them - what an idea!  D Until our society (that starts with us, folks) is willing to create H conditions where *not* acting morally is what turns out to be difficult F to 'afford', we'll get precisely the kind of behavior from executives G and politicians that we deserve - and continue to deserve the contempt  C of the rest of the world for the gross disparity between our empty  8 rhetoric and our actual behavior which we already enjoy.  I That's what holding cHumPaq accountable for its cavalierly broken solemn  H promises and blatantly self-serving lies has always been about:  making H immorality unprofitable and in fact the more expensive choice.  Turning I around and giving Marcello a 'pass' for his current enthusiastic embrace  H of attack-spin just because at some time in the past his heart may have E been in something resembling the right place (though we have no real  E proof one way or the other) is hardly consistent with deploring such  7 acts in others (as ISTR you have not been loath to do).    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 20:58:32 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Y Subject: Re: Will Rich Marcello either come clean or do some proper marketing and PR and  0 Message-ID: <11naj1tkm707h13@corp.supernews.com>   Alan Greig wrote:  > Dave Froble wrote: >  > B >>A few?  With the recent info on that infamous "gutter press" TheC >>Inquirer that last quarter AMD outsold Intel on the desktop, (not G >>including Dell, so I don't understand the claim), I'd think that most & >>Intel executives are focused on x86. >  > # >  I think the writer is being coy.  >   D I don't think that AMD has the FAB capacity to outsell Intel.  Just I couldn't make enough, regardless of user desires.  But if what they have  / is kept busy, they'll find more FAB capability.   H For now, Intel is just too big to be hurt financially by AMD.  People's  perspectives are another issue.   # Could be wrong on all of the above.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 21:16:25 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Y Subject: Re: Will Rich Marcello either come clean or do some proper marketing and PR and  0 Message-ID: <11nak3da33i36d3@corp.supernews.com>   Bill Todd wrote: > Dave Froble wrote: >  >> Alan Greig wrote: >>H >>> Up until now, Marcello - who I used to see as a good guy - has just D >>> responded with "gutter press" insults at publications daring to G >>> suggest all is not well with Itanium. If the chip isn't dying then  F >>> it's about time he resigned and was replaced with someone who can H >>> actually market the thing successfully. If he knows it's dying then ' >>> it is time to come clean or resign.  >> >> >>L >> Not everyone can afford to take the moral 'high ground' in such a manner. >  > F > Why, of course not!  I mean, expecting morality from people when it < > might actually prove inconvenient for them - what an idea! > F > Until our society (that starts with us, folks) is willing to create J > conditions where *not* acting morally is what turns out to be difficult H > to 'afford', we'll get precisely the kind of behavior from executives I > and politicians that we deserve - and continue to deserve the contempt  E > of the rest of the world for the gross disparity between our empty  : > rhetoric and our actual behavior which we already enjoy. > K > That's what holding cHumPaq accountable for its cavalierly broken solemn  J > promises and blatantly self-serving lies has always been about:  making J > immorality unprofitable and in fact the more expensive choice.  Turning K > around and giving Marcello a 'pass' for his current enthusiastic embrace  J > of attack-spin just because at some time in the past his heart may have G > been in something resembling the right place (though we have no real  G > proof one way or the other) is hardly consistent with deploring such  9 > acts in others (as ISTR you have not been loath to do).  >  > - bill  6 Entertaining, but lets stick to this particular issue.  F Do you feel that Richard Marcello has had in the past, has now, or in F the near future anything to say about what hardware will be available  for VMS?    As for me, I seriously doubt it.  I He's a guy in the middle, and if you want to search for a victum, he's a  F prime candidate.  He's had Alpha jerked out from under him.  He's had E people tell him what hardware he can have.  He's had people tell him  # what kind of advertising he can do.   H What's he to do?  What he knows is what he's doing.  Should he tell his F bosses they're a bunch of idiots (which they are/were), quit his job, I have the bank repo his house and car, and live in an empty cardboard box  
 in the alley?   D I've known other people is similar situations.  At times I despised E them.  I've learned that not everyone can give up the paycheck their  2 family depends upon, and am a bit less judgmental.  I Now, if you want me to condemn those who actually made the decisions, to  H jeprodize their customers, cost their customers significant investment, D and might cost them even more, then yeah, I'll do that.  Names like F curly and carly.  Oh, and that nitwit chief technology idiot, who has . forever tarnished the term 'chief technology'.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 23:02:06 -0500 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>Y Subject: Re: Will Rich Marcello either come clean or do some proper marketing and PR and  = Message-ID: <KdadnaUJ2vPc9OjeRVn-tQ@metrocastcablevision.com>    Dave Froble wrote: > Alan Greig wrote:  >  >> Dave Froble wrote:  >> >>D >>> A few?  With the recent info on that infamous "gutter press" TheE >>> Inquirer that last quarter AMD outsold Intel on the desktop, (not I >>> including Dell, so I don't understand the claim), I'd think that most ( >>> Intel executives are focused on x86. >> >> >>$ >>  I think the writer is being coy. >> > ? > I don't think that AMD has the FAB capacity to outsell Intel.   H Not across the board, but certainly in selected markets - even ignoring G the significant increase in absolute parts count supported by both its  ' new fab and continuing process shrinks.   I Furthermore, last I knew AMD had an agreement with the Chartered foundry  E to help out as and when necessary, and with that help it could match  $ Intel's CPU output across the board.   ...   ? > For now, Intel is just too big to be hurt financially by AMD.   G Only because it has moved to avoid being so hurt (e.g., its volte face  G with regard to x86-64 and recent scurry to introduce dual cores).  And  > AMD's current and wide-spread momentum is clearly worrying it.  B That's not saying that AMD will threaten to supplant Intel in the I foreseeable future, but as long as it continues to execute well it shows  D signs of becoming a far less junior competitor (at least in the x86 D processor biz:  Intel's other lines will likely continue to give it ! added breadth and total revenue).    - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Nov 2005 13:18:02 -0800* From: "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net>S Subject: Re: Will Rich Marcello either come clean or do some proper marketingand PR B Message-ID: <1131743882.392953.73490@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   JF Mezei wrote:    > H > If you believe that HP is on its way to dump that IA64 thing, then youJ > would understand why Marcello or ayone else don't put much marketing forD > IA64. In fact, it seems to me that Hurd, in his speeches, has goneJ > through great lengths to avoid mentioning that IA64 thing and it was the > press who asked.  D I really don't care if they dump the IA64. I just don't want them toG dump VMS with it. And I now suspect that's the plan. I will be shutting > down 9 VMS systems for ever in a few weeks time. If I had even@ suggested porting to Itanium I'd have been laughed out the door.  E I now wonder if any indirect rumours about a port might now have been  "smoke and mirrors"?  F I'd love to be proved wrong. Certainly they seem to have you convinced@ a port is more likely than cancellation and I was more than half convinced for a while.   --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 15:42:34 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> X Subject: Re: Will Rich Marcello either come clean or do some proper marketingand PR PRPR, Message-ID: <43750238.366409E1@teksavvy.com>   Alan Greig wrote:  > E > Up until now, Marcello - who I used to see as a good guy - has just I > responded with "gutter press" insults at publications daring to suggest G > all is not well with Itanium. If the chip isn't dying then it's about H > time he resigned and was replaced with someone who can actually market > the thing successfully.     H For a very long time, people have assumed that everyone in the VMS groupD was very competant and that people above them are the ones who don'tB want to market VMS.  So when Marcello was "promoted" out of VMS toG handle some of HP's real products, people assumed that he would finally D give VMS a chance. What if the conviction that VMS would not benefit0 from marketing comes from within the VMS group ?    G Marcello succeeded in convicing Curly to not kill VMS right away and in G fact give it a few month's worth of marketing.  Perhaps he succeeded in C convincing HP not to kill VMS. (remember that 9 month period during > merger decision where HP refused to mention the fate of VMS ?)  - And for that I guess we need to be grateful.    F VMS, due to the Palmer and murder of Alpha is in a hospital in a coma.H While Marcello may have convinced Compaq and possibly HP not to pull theG plug on life support, nobody within or outside of the VMS group dare do E what is really needed: shock therapy to get VMS out of its coma. Yes, E someone needs to rock the boat at HP and provide HP with a vision for E VMS to grow and become healthy again.  But rocking the boat at a time F when HP is constantly downsizing is a bad idea and people have cars toG feed, mortgages to pay etc, and keeping your paycheck is more important F than putting the paddles on VMS, shout "clear" and press the button to send a big shock to revive it.  ? HP already sells 8086 servers. It is its main architecture. Its G strategic product line. So adding 8086 support for VMS wouldn't be such  a big thing within HP.    G The real issue I think is that HP employees' hands are tied. There is a D policy to follow, a line to toe. And at the high level, there is theG relationship with Intel to maintain. So nobody can announce the port to   the 8086 at this point in time.   F If you believe that HP is on its way to dump that IA64 thing, then youH would understand why Marcello or ayone else don't put much marketing forB IA64. In fact, it seems to me that Hurd, in his speeches, has goneH through great lengths to avoid mentioning that IA64 thing and it was the press who asked.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 22:32:47 GMT  From: maria@yrpjtokr.ca S Subject: www.dvd100.net  No te Arrepientas,  Todo en Verbatim Traxdata Princo. VIH8 3 Message-ID: <j_8df.26093$yg1.6838@twister.auna.com>    ---   r Fimi tigu cacamogab caxexetitin tanoluma tacibema lan mofofit bedere medobote mola heraceru wihotatahuv renitepe .   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.631 ************************