1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 12 Nov 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 632       Contents: A question about autocomplete  DECwindows Startup Error Re: DECwindows Startup Error Determine cause of bugcheck  Re: Determine cause of bugcheck  Re: Determine cause of bugcheck  Re: Determine cause of bugcheck  Re: Determine cause of bugcheck  Re: Determine cause of bugcheck  Re: Determine cause of bugcheck  Re: Determine cause of bugcheck  Re: Determine cause of bugcheck G Re: Lack of response on c.o.v. (was:Re: File spec wildcard match test?) G Re: Lack of response on c.o.v. (was:Re: File spec wildcard match test?) % Re: Strange Network performance issue % Re: Strange Network performance issue - Taking backup of disks of production system.. P Re: Will Rich Marcello either come clean or do some proper marketing and PR and K Re: Will Rich Marcello either come clean or do some proper marketingand  PR K Re: Will Rich Marcello either come clean or do some proper marketingand  PR K Re: Will Rich Marcello either come clean or do some proper marketingand  PR P Re: Will Rich Marcello either come clean or do some proper marketingand  PR  PRPO Re: Will Rich Marcello either come clean or do some proper marketingand PR PRPR O Re: Will Rich Marcello either come clean or do some proper marketingand PR PRPR O Re: Will Rich Marcello either come clean or do some proper marketingand PR PRPR   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 12:30:09 +0000 # From: issinoho <issinoho@gmail.com> & Subject: A question about autocomplete4 Message-ID: <dl4n4r$cgj$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>  H I've always felt that one of the biggest failings with DCL was the lack H of a Unix-style autocompletion of filepaths when TAB is hit. This would @ be a fantastic addition, however if I remember rightly an older G discussion around this offered some fundamental reasons why this would   never work under DCL.   G Well... how come it has been implemented within the bash shell on VMS?  * Can this code not be back-ported into DCL?   I await your collective wisdom.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 21:31:36 +1100 . From: "Ross Templeton" <rtemplet@iinet.net.au>! Subject: DECwindows Startup Error J Message-ID: <4375c48b$0$14238$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>  " I'm new to using OpenVMS hands-on.  ? I'm trying to get DECwindows running so I can use Reflection X.   ) When I start DECwindows I get this error:   1 DECW$TRANSPORT_TCPIP image base address: 005C4000 2 %DECW-W-ATT_FAIL, failed to attach transport TCPIP) -SYSTEM-F-NOLOGNAM, no logical name match   1 TCPIP is working OK. The system is a DHCP client.   - Any tips on how to resolve much appreciated.     ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2005 14:23:29 +01006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)% Subject: Re: DECwindows Startup Error , Message-ID: <4375fae1$1@news.langstoeger.at>  { In article <4375c48b$0$14238$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>, "Ross Templeton" <rtemplet@iinet.net.au> writes: # >I'm new to using OpenVMS hands-on.  > @ >I'm trying to get DECwindows running so I can use Reflection X. > * >When I start DECwindows I get this error: > 2 >DECW$TRANSPORT_TCPIP image base address: 005C40003 >%DECW-W-ATT_FAIL, failed to attach transport TCPIP * >-SYSTEM-F-NOLOGNAM, no logical name match > 2 >TCPIP is working OK. The system is a DHCP client. > . >Any tips on how to resolve much appreciated.   C 1) Is this message from the DECW$SERVER*.LOG file during startup or H does it always happen ? DHCP client could need some time (up to minutes)G to get the IP address (and rest of the config) set, and until this some @ things may not work (like PWIP). So starting this things (again)L afterwards might me neccessary (I hate this with PWIP, and prefer fixed IP).  F 2) Do you have something running on TCP port 6000 (which might prevent the MOTIF startup with TCPIP) ?   B 3) Do you start IP early in the SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM (or in SYSMAN) ?G It should be one of the first (after DECnet and maybe LAT of course)...    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2005 01:42:03 -0800& From: "Thorsten Jens" <thojens@gmx.de>$ Subject: Determine cause of bugcheckC Message-ID: <1131788523.788781.314860@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>    Hi,   D we don't have support for our VMS cluster anymore. We started havingG problems with one voting member a couple of days ago, it crashes almost : every two days. The last message on the serial console is:  B  **** OpenVMS (TM) Alpha Operating System V7.2-1   - BUGCHECK ****  F The machine is a AlphaServer DS20E. How could I determine the cause of@ that (probably recurring) bugcheck? I'm not really a VMS expert.   Thorsten   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 02:31:48 -0800 ( From: Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net>( Subject: Re: Determine cause of bugcheck0 Message-ID: <BF9B0494.17BAA%roktsci@comcast.net>   On 11/12/05 1:42 AM, in article F 1131788523.788781.314860@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com, "Thorsten Jens" <thojens@gmx.de> wrote:    > Hi,  > F > we don't have support for our VMS cluster anymore. We started havingI > problems with one voting member a couple of days ago, it crashes almost < > every two days. The last message on the serial console is: > D >  **** OpenVMS (TM) Alpha Operating System V7.2-1   - BUGCHECK **** > H > The machine is a AlphaServer DS20E. How could I determine the cause ofB > that (probably recurring) bugcheck? I'm not really a VMS expert. > 
 > Thorsten > # What is the BUGCHECK error message?    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2005 04:33:51 -0800& From: "Thorsten Jens" <thojens@gmx.de>( Subject: Re: Determine cause of bugcheckC Message-ID: <1131798831.593906.113680@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Jeff Cameron wrote: ! > On 11/12/05 1:42 AM, in article H > 1131788523.788781.314860@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com, "Thorsten Jens" > <thojens@gmx.de> wrote:  >  > > Hi,  > > H > > we don't have support for our VMS cluster anymore. We started havingK > > problems with one voting member a couple of days ago, it crashes almost > > > every two days. The last message on the serial console is: > > F > >  **** OpenVMS (TM) Alpha Operating System V7.2-1   - BUGCHECK **** > > J > > The machine is a AlphaServer DS20E. How could I determine the cause ofD > > that (probably recurring) bugcheck? I'm not really a VMS expert. > >  > > Thorsten > > % > What is the BUGCHECK error message?   F That is a good question. I don't get anything after that on the serial6 port. Is there a file I could inspect after rebooting?   Thorsten   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2005 06:11:25 -0800& From: "Thorsten Jens" <thojens@gmx.de>( Subject: Re: Determine cause of bugcheckC Message-ID: <1131804685.569369.296080@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>     Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:n > In article <1131798831.593906.113680@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Thorsten Jens" <thojens@gmx.de> writes: > >Jeff Cameron wrote:( > >> What is the BUGCHECK error message? > > I > >That is a good question. I don't get anything after that on the serial 9 > >port. Is there a file I could inspect after rebooting?  > @ > If you have a crash dump file (active, during crash) you could > ) > 	$ ANALYZE/CRASH	SYS$SYSTEM:SYSDUMP.DMP  > 	SDA> CLUE CRASH > 	or  > 	SDA> SHOW CRASH > E > Don't forget, the next shutdown (or crash) invalidates the contents  > of the dump file.   D The first crash that produces the dump file or the crash after that?C Because I would have to reset/reboot to actually analyze that file.   
 Thank you, Thorsten   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2005 06:54:05 -0800& From: "Thorsten Jens" <thojens@gmx.de>( Subject: Re: Determine cause of bugcheckB Message-ID: <1131807245.864952.55230@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   Thorsten Jens schrieb:   > Hi,  > F > we don't have support for our VMS cluster anymore. We started havingI > problems with one voting member a couple of days ago, it crashes almost < > every two days. The last message on the serial console is: > D >  **** OpenVMS (TM) Alpha Operating System V7.2-1   - BUGCHECK ****  " When rebooting, I get this output:  + -oGGFFFFFF=F7*** keyboard not plugged in...   ; System Event Frame at 6148, System-specific portion at 6160  6160 : 00000000.00000000 6168 : 00010000.00000000 6170 : 00000000.00000083 6178 : 00000000.0000004f 6180 : 00000000.00000000 6188 : 00000000.00000000 6190 : 00000000.00000000 6198 : 00000000.00000000 61a0 : 00000000.00000000 61a8 : 00000000.00000000  ; System Event Frame at 6148, System-specific portion at 6160  6160 : 00000000.00000000 6168 : 00010000.00000000 6170 : 00000000.0000008b 6178 : 00000000.0000006d 6180 : 00000000.00000000 6188 : 00000000.00000000 6190 : 00000000.00000000 6198 : 00000000.00000000 61a0 : 00000000.00000000 61a8 : 00000000.00000000 512 Meg of system memory probing hose 1, PCI " bus 0, slot 7 -- pka -- NCR 53C895  bus 0, slot 8 -- eia -- DE600-AA probing hose 0, PCI   probing PCI-to-ISA bridge, bus 16 bus 0, slot 5, function 1 -- dqa -- Cypress 82C693 IDE6 bus 0, slot 5, function 2 -- dqb -- Cypress 82C693 IDE4 bus 0, slot 6, function 0 -- pkb -- Adaptec AIC-78954 bus 0, slot 6, function 1 -- pkc -- Adaptec AIC-7895+ bus 0, slot 7 -- vga -- ELSA GLoria Synergy & bus 0, slot 8 -- pkd -- QLogic ISP10x0& bus 0, slot 9 -- pke -- QLogic ISP10x0  B plus several more of the "System Event Frame" messages. The serialE prompt does not respond to anything I type. The lower three LEDS next D to the power switch on the front are all on (amber). I guess this is some kind of hardware failure?  
 Thorsten Jens    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2005 16:14:40 +01006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)( Subject: Re: Determine cause of bugcheck* Message-ID: <437614f0@news.langstoeger.at>  l In article <1131804685.569369.296080@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, "Thorsten Jens" <thojens@gmx.de> writes:! >Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote: o >> In article <1131798831.593906.113680@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Thorsten Jens" <thojens@gmx.de> writes:  >> >Jeff Cameron wrote: ) >> >> What is the BUGCHECK error message?  >> >J >> >That is a good question. I don't get anything after that on the serial: >> >port. Is there a file I could inspect after rebooting? >>A >> If you have a crash dump file (active, during crash) you could  >>* >> 	$ ANALYZE/CRASH	SYS$SYSTEM:SYSDUMP.DMP >> 	SDA> CLUE CRASH  >> 	or >> 	SDA> SHOW CRASH  >>F >> Don't forget, the next shutdown (or crash) invalidates the contents >> of the dump file. > E >The first crash that produces the dump file or the crash after that?   C The dump file is NOT produced at crash/dump time (only filled up) !   H It must be created before and must be big enough (or the crash dump willD be incomplete, but usable). It is opened on VMS boottime (to preventF successfull deletion of the file - thus freeing up the diskblocks [forI allocation by another files] which are already told to the savedump code) I to avoid overwriting valid files on disk (because crashdump is written by 8 primitive code not checking filestructures at this time)  I The SYSGEN parameters SAVEDUMP (overwrite dump) and DUMPSTYLE (compressed L and/or selective dump, ...) and the DOSD feature are for a later discussion.  D >Because I would have to reset/reboot to actually analyze that file.  I This I don't understand. Is the computer already shutdown since the crash I or is it still running ? Did you have a SYSDUMP.DMP before (it is usually H created at VMS installtion/configuration time) ? Yes, you need a running VMS to do a ANAL/CRASH.    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 07:42:10 -0800 ( From: Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net>( Subject: Re: Determine cause of bugcheck0 Message-ID: <BF9B4D52.17BD3%roktsci@comcast.net>   On 11/12/05 4:33 AM, in article F 1131798831.593906.113680@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, "Thorsten Jens" <thojens@gmx.de> wrote:    > Jeff Cameron wrote: " >> On 11/12/05 1:42 AM, in articleI >> 1131788523.788781.314860@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com, "Thorsten Jens"  >> <thojens@gmx.de> wrote: >>   >>> Hi,  >>> H >>> we don't have support for our VMS cluster anymore. We started havingK >>> problems with one voting member a couple of days ago, it crashes almost > >>> every two days. The last message on the serial console is: >>> F >>>  **** OpenVMS (TM) Alpha Operating System V7.2-1   - BUGCHECK **** >>> J >>> The machine is a AlphaServer DS20E. How could I determine the cause ofD >>> that (probably recurring) bugcheck? I'm not really a VMS expert. >>>  >>> Thorsten >>> & >> What is the BUGCHECK error message? > H > That is a good question. I don't get anything after that on the serial8 > port. Is there a file I could inspect after rebooting? > 
 > Thorsten > J If your sysgen parameters are configured to collect a crash dump, then you+ can do the following after the next reboot:    $ANALYZE/CRASH SDA> SHOW CRASH    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2005 08:31:06 -0800& From: "Thorsten Jens" <thojens@gmx.de>( Subject: Re: Determine cause of bugcheckB Message-ID: <1131813066.201423.58610@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>    Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:m > In article <1131807245.864952.55230@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, "Thorsten Jens" <thojens@gmx.de> writes: % > >When rebooting, I get this output:  > > . > >-oGGFFFFFF=F7*** keyboard not plugged in... >  > And is the keyboard in ?$ > Do you have another one to check ?  A No, I don't think there has ever benn a keyboard attached to this D machine. It's a server, which is accessed via ethernet or the serial
 line only.  > > >System Event Frame at 6148, System-specific portion at 6160 > >6160 : 00000000.00000000  > >6168 : 00010000.00000000  > >6170 : 00000000.00000083  > >6178 : 00000000.0000004f  > >6180 : 00000000.00000000  > >6188 : 00000000.00000000  > >6190 : 00000000.00000000  > >6198 : 00000000.00000000  > >61a0 : 00000000.00000000  > >61a8 : 00000000.00000000  > > > > >System Event Frame at 6148, System-specific portion at 6160 > >6160 : 00000000.00000000  > >6168 : 00010000.00000000  > >6170 : 00000000.0000008b  > >6178 : 00000000.0000006d  > >6180 : 00000000.00000000  > >6188 : 00000000.00000000  > >6190 : 00000000.00000000  > >6198 : 00000000.00000000  > >61a0 : 00000000.00000000  > >61a8 : 00000000.00000000  > F > These I would think indicate a hardware problem. I don't think it isG > related to a missing keyboard. You could open up your box and get the & > dust out of it. This sometimes help. > E > >plus several more of the "System Event Frame" messages. The serial H > >prompt does not respond to anything I type. The lower three LEDS nextG > >to the power switch on the front are all on (amber). I guess this is ! > >some kind of hardware failure?  >  > I think so too. N > And therefor you don't need to think again where your crashes a coming from.  E Well, Glueck im Unglueck :-/ Now we at leats know what's going on. We 7 still have hardware support,  I'll call them on Monday.    Thank you,   Thorsten   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2005 09:16:24 -0800& From: "Thorsten Jens" <thojens@gmx.de>( Subject: Re: Determine cause of bugcheckC Message-ID: <1131815784.298085.327000@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Jeff Cameron wrote: ! > On 11/12/05 4:33 AM, in article H > 1131798831.593906.113680@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, "Thorsten Jens" > <thojens@gmx.de> wrote:  >  > > Jeff Cameron wrote: ( > >> What is the BUGCHECK error message? > > J > > That is a good question. I don't get anything after that on the serial: > > port. Is there a file I could inspect after rebooting? > >  > > Thorsten > > L > If your sysgen parameters are configured to collect a crash dump, then you- > can do the following after the next reboot:  >  > $ANALYZE/CRASH > SDA> SHOW CRASH   D Thanks, I will do that. I hope it's going to tell me it was "just" a hardware error of some kind.   Thorsten   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 16:10:19 GMT  From: "Jim" <j.n@nospam.com>P Subject: Re: Lack of response on c.o.v. (was:Re: File spec wildcard match test?)< Message-ID: <Ltodf.12577$7h7.930@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>  3 "BRAD" <bradhamilton@comcast.net> wrote in message  $ news:437541DD.8050607@comcast.net... > AEF wrote: > <snip>I >> I hear you! I have gotten the full range of understanding to my posts. @ >> Sometimes I get exactly the answer I need. Other times peopleG >> completely misunderstand me and post stuff that is of no help. Still  >> other times I get nothing.  >>E >> E.g., I recently posted a question about why I can't get my DECnet G >> configurators to work. No response at all. Is it really true that no H >> one who reads cov can answer this question? Have all the configuratorH >> experts put me in their kill file? Oh well. Maybe the configurator isD >> just a joke: It doesn't really work, but simply pads the manual aE >> little. ;-) (Just kidding.) Maybe I'll try ITRC or Ask the Wizard.  > I > Perhaps not many folks are left who know the answer to your question -  H > after all, it _is_ about DECnet ("Phase IV", as well!); by the time I K > started working as a System Mangler in the late 1990s, the network staff  K > at my company had no clue what "decknet" was, and supported IP only.  To  L > save ourselves much heartache, my colleagues and I spent much time making I > sure the application needed as little use of "decknet" as possible.  I  K > decided that learning the ins and outs of Phase IV (and V) was not worth   > it to me (or my job).  > F > I appreciate your feelings, including the rant that follows; I just G > decided that it wasn't worth the time or energy tilting at windmills.  > * > "Forget it, Jake... It's Chinatown." :-) >  > <snip>L Sorry to say, I didn't see the earlier post.  The OP should specify whether M he is trying to get Decnet Phase IV or Decnet/OSI going.  These are two very   different beasts. K I know little about DECnet/OSI because (a) DEC wanted an arm and a leg for  K the license, and (b) DECnet Phase IV was good enough for us.  Also, if you  M must learn a new networking scheme, it should be TCP/IP because that is what  & the rest of the world has implemented.E You must realize that since I retired in 1997, a lot of know how has  K escaped.  I am not certain what the OP means about configurator.  I always  - used NETCONFIG.COM to set up DECnet Phase IV. H With a very few precautions, the command procedure works quite well,  I E don't have any of the manuals any more, and without them, support is  	 hopeless. I Although the numbers of people who remember these products is declining,  I there are still some around who post from time to time.  Yes, I know who  C they are, but it is up to them to decide whether to respond or not. 2 To the OP, honey attracts more flies than vinegar. Jim    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Nov 2005 09:57:06 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>P Subject: Re: Lack of response on c.o.v. (was:Re: File spec wildcard match test?)B Message-ID: <1131818226.446880.25040@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>  
 Jim wrote:4 > "BRAD" <bradhamilton@comcast.net> wrote in message& > news:437541DD.8050607@comcast.net... > > AEF wrote:
 > > <snip>K > >> I hear you! I have gotten the full range of understanding to my posts. B > >> Sometimes I get exactly the answer I need. Other times peopleI > >> completely misunderstand me and post stuff that is of no help. Still  > >> other times I get nothing.  > >>G > >> E.g., I recently posted a question about why I can't get my DECnet I > >> configurators to work. No response at all. Is it really true that no J > >> one who reads cov can answer this question? Have all the configuratorJ > >> experts put me in their kill file? Oh well. Maybe the configurator isF > >> just a joke: It doesn't really work, but simply pads the manual aG > >> little. ;-) (Just kidding.) Maybe I'll try ITRC or Ask the Wizard.  > > J > > Perhaps not many folks are left who know the answer to your question -I > > after all, it _is_ about DECnet ("Phase IV", as well!); by the time I L > > started working as a System Mangler in the late 1990s, the network staffL > > at my company had no clue what "decknet" was, and supported IP only.  ToM > > save ourselves much heartache, my colleagues and I spent much time making J > > sure the application needed as little use of "decknet" as possible.  IL > > decided that learning the ins and outs of Phase IV (and V) was not worth > > it to me (or my job).  > > G > > I appreciate your feelings, including the rant that follows; I just I > > decided that it wasn't worth the time or energy tilting at windmills.  > > , > > "Forget it, Jake... It's Chinatown." :-) > > 
 > > <snip>M > Sorry to say, I didn't see the earlier post.  The OP should specify whether N > he is trying to get Decnet Phase IV or Decnet/OSI going.  These are two very > different beasts.    DECnet phase IV. See  u http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/browse_frm/thread/ad73ad2d5b26956b/f88d636370a39c67?hl=en#f88d636370a39c67   L > I know little about DECnet/OSI because (a) DEC wanted an arm and a leg forL > the license, and (b) DECnet Phase IV was good enough for us.  Also, if youN > must learn a new networking scheme, it should be TCP/IP because that is what( > the rest of the world has implemented.  E Well, I am supporting a legacy app on MicroVAX 3100 Models 80 and 95. F The app uses DECnet phase IV. I estimate the app will be around for atA least another year or two and maybe even many more years, so I am F trying to brush up on my DECnet IV. And I came across the CONFIGURATORF and could not get it to work. Now it's not a serious problem as thingsG are more or less running fine, but I think it's still better to know it G than not. I figure it can only help. And I'm just curious what it takes  to get it to run.   F > You must realize that since I retired in 1997, a lot of know how hasL > escaped.  I am not certain what the OP means about configurator.  I always/ > used NETCONFIG.COM to set up DECnet Phase IV.   @ Not that configurator. I mean NCP SHOW MODULE CONFIGURATOR KNOWN
 CIRCUITS e.g.   I > With a very few precautions, the command procedure works quite well,  I F > don't have any of the manuals any more, and without them, support is > hopeless. J > Although the numbers of people who remember these products is declining,J > there are still some around who post from time to time.  Yes, I know whoE > they are, but it is up to them to decide whether to respond or not.   4 > To the OP, honey attracts more flies than vinegar.  C Yes, I know, but I've run out of honey. I was hoping my humor would E dilute, or better yet, overcome the vinegar. In fact, I wasn't really G angry when I wrote it -- I was more in a humorous mood. (Though I can't A beat Steven's "Which newsgroup is this? Am I lost?" I almost died 
 laughing!)  E (Actually, I like vinegar! Have you ever tried cucumber salad? I love & it when it has a sharp vinegar taste.)  ? I also figured that I was not going to get an answer anyway and C couldn't resist doing my rant as I have suffered a similar fate for F many of my own posts. And c'mon, Steven clearly said he wanted to testC if a given non-wildcard file-spec matches a given wildcard spec. He E also clearly said ..., not *. His original post was very clear except G the relatively unimportant fact that his app happened to be Zip. Was it E Steve Lionel who wrote "free advice is worth every cent"? OK, a quick B Google search reveals, ..., YES! Also: I was right about the fifth force!  G Besides, what honey would you recommend? Should I offer money on c.o.v? ? Should I open with "dear gentle c.o.v. readers"? or "Dear super F wonderful heroic c.o.v. readers"? I'm not trying to be hostile here --C I am just trying to make a point. Friendly suggestions are welcome.   F I've always tried my best to help any poster I could and have actuallyG provided good answers to some, hoping what goes around comes around. At 9 times I even scooped everyone else with the right answer.   G It's easy to say the honey/vinegar bit, but coming up with the honey is B often not so easy. And I wasn't really excpecting any help at this= point anyway. But that's not to say that help is not welcome!   E Please, I am not trying to be hostile here, though some may insist on D interpreting it that way. (Hey, I'm often accused of things I didn'tF do.) I'm just trying to make a point with a little humor (perhaps VERY little humor for some!).     > Jim    AEF    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 07:45:50 -0800 ( From: Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net>. Subject: Re: Strange Network performance issue0 Message-ID: <BF9B4E2E.17BD4%roktsci@comcast.net>   On 11/12/05 4:56 AM, in article 9 3584a$4375e69a$513b9a2c$18100@news.versatel.nl, "H Vlems"  <nospam@what.ever.com> wrote:    > 9 > "Jeff Cameron" <roktsci@comcast.net> schreef in bericht , > news:BF9A95C6.17B7D%roktsci@comcast.net...H >> I'm having a very Strange Network issue concerning performance that I > would < >> like to solicit comments and suggestions from all of you. >>  3 >> I have three separate VMS systems outlined here:  >>  
 >> Node: MAUI  >> VAXStation 3100
 >> VMS 5.6 >> 10Base-T Ethernet FDX >>  
 >> Node: PELE 
 >> Alpha DS20  >> VMS 7.3-2 >> 100Base-T Ethernet FDX  >>   >> Node: KUPUA
 >> Alpha 2100  >> VMS 7.3-1 >> 100Base-T Ethernet FDX  >>  6 >> All nodes are running Decnet Phase IV and Multinet. >>  M >> Nodes are connected through a single common Hub and all reside on the same I >> IP subnet. All hub ports have Auto-Negotiate disabled, and Full Duplex  > set.3 >> They also all share the same DECNet Area number.  >>  J >> The hub makes a connection to the company LAN. The idea was to keep the7 >> Decnet and Intra-VMS IP traffic off the Company LAN.  >>  H >> Decnet Copy and FTP Speeds are consistent with one another, and shown > here:  >>  " >> MAUI <-> PELE  : 250K Bytes/Sec" >> MAUI <-> KUPUA : 250K Bytes/Sec" >> PELE <-> KUPUA :  17K Bytes/Sec >>  E >> FTP speeds from PCs located on different IP subnet on company LAN:  >>  " >> PCs  <-> MAUI  : 242K Bytes/Sec" >> PCs  <-> PELE  : 247K Bytes/Sec" >> PCs  <-> KUPUA : 245K Bytes/Sec >>  E >> The question is why is the throughput between the two Alpha's with  > 100Base-T # >> so abysmally slow, DECNet or IP?  >>  
 >> Any ideas?  >>   >> Thank you in advance. >> Jeff Cameron  >>   > Jeff,  > K > I see a similar speed degradation on my own LAN. I changed the Alpha's to J > 100 Mb/s half duplex and better speeds (!). I strongly suspect the buildI > quality of the network gear: an 8-port 3COM (labeled OfficeConnect dual K > speed switch) that connects to an E-tech ADSL router, a Linkspeed 54 Mb/s M > access point and an Edimax 8 port Fast Ethernet switch. The Edimax connects ! > to a 10 Mb/s UTP/RG58 repeater. 7 > All equipment on the hub runs at 10 Mb/s half duplex. J > The device I suspect most is the Edimax. If I had a little more money toJ > spend I'd replace it with a 3COM. But actually, at 35 euro per switch, ID > don't really trust these little boxes to perform at high bitrates. >  > Hans >  > H Thanks, but that is not the case at my site. I have used three differentG hubs, with all the same results. Linksys, and two different CISCO hubs.    Jeff   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 13:27:32 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> . Subject: Re: Strange Network performance issue0 Message-ID: <11ncd0534son258@corp.supernews.com>   Jeff Cameron wrote: ! > On 11/12/05 4:56 AM, in article ; > 3584a$4375e69a$513b9a2c$18100@news.versatel.nl, "H Vlems"  > <nospam@what.ever.com> wrote:  >  > 9 >>"Jeff Cameron" <roktsci@comcast.net> schreef in bericht , >>news:BF9A95C6.17B7D%roktsci@comcast.net... >>H >>>I'm having a very Strange Network issue concerning performance that I >> >>would  >>< >>>like to solicit comments and suggestions from all of you. >>> 3 >>>I have three separate VMS systems outlined here:  >>> 
 >>>Node: MAUI  >>>VAXStation 3100
 >>>VMS 5.6 >>>10Base-T Ethernet FDX >>> 
 >>>Node: PELE 
 >>>Alpha DS20  >>>VMS 7.3-2 >>>100Base-T Ethernet FDX  >>>  >>>Node: KUPUA
 >>>Alpha 2100  >>>VMS 7.3-1 >>>100Base-T Ethernet FDX  >>> 6 >>>All nodes are running Decnet Phase IV and Multinet. >>> M >>>Nodes are connected through a single common Hub and all reside on the same I >>>IP subnet. All hub ports have Auto-Negotiate disabled, and Full Duplex  >> >>set. >>3 >>>They also all share the same DECNet Area number.  >>> J >>>The hub makes a connection to the company LAN. The idea was to keep the7 >>>Decnet and Intra-VMS IP traffic off the Company LAN.  >>> H >>>Decnet Copy and FTP Speeds are consistent with one another, and shown >> >>here:  >>" >>>MAUI <-> PELE  : 250K Bytes/Sec" >>>MAUI <-> KUPUA : 250K Bytes/Sec" >>>PELE <-> KUPUA :  17K Bytes/Sec >>> E >>>FTP speeds from PCs located on different IP subnet on company LAN:  >>> " >>>PCs  <-> MAUI  : 242K Bytes/Sec" >>>PCs  <-> PELE  : 247K Bytes/Sec" >>>PCs  <-> KUPUA : 245K Bytes/Sec >>> E >>>The question is why is the throughput between the two Alpha's with  >> >>100Base-T  >># >>>so abysmally slow, DECNet or IP?  >>> 
 >>>Any ideas?  >>>  >>>Thank you in advance. >>>Jeff Cameron  >>>  >> >>Jeff,  >>K >>I see a similar speed degradation on my own LAN. I changed the Alpha's to J >>100 Mb/s half duplex and better speeds (!). I strongly suspect the buildI >>quality of the network gear: an 8-port 3COM (labeled OfficeConnect dual K >>speed switch) that connects to an E-tech ADSL router, a Linkspeed 54 Mb/s M >>access point and an Edimax 8 port Fast Ethernet switch. The Edimax connects ! >>to a 10 Mb/s UTP/RG58 repeater. 7 >>All equipment on the hub runs at 10 Mb/s half duplex. J >>The device I suspect most is the Edimax. If I had a little more money toJ >>spend I'd replace it with a 3COM. But actually, at 35 euro per switch, ID >>don't really trust these little boxes to perform at high bitrates. >> >>Hans >> >> > J > Thanks, but that is not the case at my site. I have used three differentI > hubs, with all the same results. Linksys, and two different CISCO hubs.  >  > Jeff >   ? I've also had a problem when trying to use full duplex.  As an  I experiment, try setting everything (VMS systems) to half duplex and then   do your speed tests.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 20:26:37 +0200 0 From: "MUSTAFA ATAKAN" <matakan@inteltek.com.tr>6 Subject: Taking backup of disks of production system..L Message-ID: <F014DACB8BE63442993543B780A2F01801AD742B@asteriks.inteltek.ist>   Hi,   G Our cluster system is 7x24 online and there is always something reading B or writing to disks. We are taking full image backup on Sunday andE incremental backups on other days of a week without shutting down any G program on the system. In the log files of the backup, there are always E a warning messages saying "X file is open for write by another user",   but still backuping the file.=20  E My question is, suppose that we are using 20 disks on our storage and F all of them are gone in a disaster. However, I have got the image tapeH backups of the disks (with the above method) and wanted to restore theseF backups to another 20 disks-storage device (suppose that it is also OKF to lose some file that is produced or changed after backup). But, I amF not sure whether it will work or not. Because, when looking at the log4 file of the backups, there are always saying that=20  B  "diskX:[000000]QUOTA.SYS;1 is open for write by another user".=20  G If some of files gave this kind of warning when taking the image backup D of a disk, is it possible to restore this backup to another disk andG still continue to work? Or is there another way to take the snapshot of 1 the disk and then taking backup of this snapshot?     F Note: My OS version OpenVMS 7-3-2 and my disks are on HSG80 storage=20   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 12:20:01 -0500 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>Y Subject: Re: Will Rich Marcello either come clean or do some proper marketing and PR and  G Message-ID: <mdWdnai7garbuevenZ2dnUVZ_v6dnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com>    Dave Froble wrote: > Bill Todd wrote: >  >> Dave Froble wrote:  >> >>> Alan Greig wrote:  >>> I >>>> Up until now, Marcello - who I used to see as a good guy - has just  E >>>> responded with "gutter press" insults at publications daring to  H >>>> suggest all is not well with Itanium. If the chip isn't dying then G >>>> it's about time he resigned and was replaced with someone who can  I >>>> actually market the thing successfully. If he knows it's dying then  ( >>>> it is time to come clean or resign. >>>  >>>  >>>  >>> F >>> Not everyone can afford to take the moral 'high ground' in such a  >>> manner.  >> >> >>G >> Why, of course not!  I mean, expecting morality from people when it  = >> might actually prove inconvenient for them - what an idea!  >>G >> Until our society (that starts with us, folks) is willing to create  A >> conditions where *not* acting morally is what turns out to be  H >> difficult to 'afford', we'll get precisely the kind of behavior from H >> executives and politicians that we deserve - and continue to deserve I >> the contempt of the rest of the world for the gross disparity between  E >> our empty rhetoric and our actual behavior which we already enjoy.  >>E >> That's what holding cHumPaq accountable for its cavalierly broken  C >> solemn promises and blatantly self-serving lies has always been  I >> about:  making immorality unprofitable and in fact the more expensive  H >> choice.  Turning around and giving Marcello a 'pass' for his current H >> enthusiastic embrace of attack-spin just because at some time in the H >> past his heart may have been in something resembling the right place A >> (though we have no real proof one way or the other) is hardly  G >> consistent with deploring such acts in others (as ISTR you have not   >> been loath to do).  >>	 >> - bill  >  >  > Entertaining,   G Well, it was meant to be instructive, but I guess some people are just   ineducable.    ...   K > He's a guy in the middle, and if you want to search for a victum, he's a   > prime candidate.  D Pardon me for failing to appreciate the vast gulf between those who D initiate unethical behavior because they perceive it to be in their G personal interest and those who actively support that behavior because  2 they perceive it to be in their personal interest.  H For the most part, that appears to be more a gulf in creativity than in  anything relating to morality.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 17:16:53 +0800 3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> T Subject: Re: Will Rich Marcello either come clean or do some proper marketingand  PR1 Message-ID: <dl4c0e$pjf$1@news-02.connect.com.au>    Hi JF,  @ > and does offer many unique features, but not as unique as NSK.  I Sorry, what are those unique features again? When I used to push the foil L down on a bottle of VMS it had that lovely couple of ml of cream on the top!H These days VMS engineering has sought to homogenize it to such an extent@ that often I find it indistinguishable from any other web-server service-oriented blah-blah. . .   I Why was NSK's Transaction Internet Protocol support never realeased?  Who K asked for HP Web Services Transactions? Why in ANYONE'S name would they try F to pour this whole bullshit idea of compensating transactions down ourI throats? Have we all gone completely mad??? "Yes ACID properties were all A very quaint and had a certain 'old school' appeal, but there just @ so-like-yesterday in this hip new WebSphere/WebLogic/OAS world."  J VMS's unique features are only of use if someone is developing software ONK vms FOR vms and sadly, I don't think VMS engineering has believed that that  happens, for some time now :-(   Regards Richard Maher   I PS. Once again, let me state that I'm over the move with the fork() et al L efforts going on to help get more UNIX software to VMS and if , one day, SAPK was to re-emerge on VMS I would be popping champagne corks but don't forget   to "Leverage the Idiosyncrasy!".  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:43758FEA.FCEABED3@teksavvy.com... > Alan Greig wrote: J > > I'd love to be proved wrong. Certainly they seem to have you convincedD > > a port is more likely than cancellation and I was more than half > > convinced for a while. > J > HP is stuck with HP-UX, NSK and VMS on IA64.  HP cannot kill NSK becauseH > it is high visibility in Wall Street and HP can't aleniate Wall StreetI > casino analysts. So the odds are high that NSK would be ported to 8086.  > I > HP-UX is different because Linux is such a big competitor. On the other C > hand, moving HP-UX to 8086  might be the only way to maintain the A > installed base. HP-UX customers will buy HP 8086 servers. Linux ' > customers will buy anybody's servers.  > I > VMS is different from HP-UX in that it doesn't have a direct competitor D > and does offer many unique features, but not as unique as NSK. TheB > problem is that due to lack of vision, HP may not see any growth@ > potential for VMS and would think that nobody would notice its
 disapearance.  > F > If VMS management internally act the same way as they act publicallyI > (eg: everything is fine and there is no need to port to the 8086), then F > VMS is doomed because they won't have fought to port VMS when it wasI > time.  But if VMS management act, they should be able to include VMS in - > the plan to migrate away from IA64 to 8086.  > J > The problem is see is that VMS management seem to have a mandate to onlyE > cater to the installed base and only see sales potential in a small H > niche and don't seem to realise the potential for growth for VMS if itJ > were to be marketed to new markets at the mid and lower end. And if theyC > see the 8086 only as a low end crappy thing, they may not see any 3 > incentive to push for porting of VMS to the 8086.  > I > If VMS management remain asleep at the switch, the best hope is that MS I > will simply be lumped into NSK and HP-UX and ported to the 8086 because D > HP won't want to be seen as killing products due to its mistake inG > comitting to IA64. Remember that the Alpha murder was to support HP's J > mistake and this is a very recent event still fresh in customer's minds. > H > I don't know what Marcello may have done in his current position at HP< > to improve VMS. But I sure didn't *see* anything dramatic.   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Nov 2005 13:59:50 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)T Subject: Re: Will Rich Marcello either come clean or do some proper marketingand  PR+ Message-ID: <3tmaqlFto7voU1@individual.net>   , In article <437598B5.CF205F0E@teksavvy.com>,0 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > re AMD > I > One potential for HP is to hold an auction between Intel and AMD to see M > who could subsidize the most the port of its 3 proprietary OSs to the 8086.  > 5 > For AMD, it would be a big win to have VMS and NSK.    Why?   F >                                                    It would have theJ > majority of serious OSs on its chips (Solaris, VMS and NSK) and have its) > chips used in large enterprise systems.   D It's already got the first and it is likely going to have the secondC soon enough even if NSK and VMS go away with the demise of Itanium.    > E > Intel has nothing serious running on its 8086s. Gaining VMS and NSK G > would make it an industrial strength architecture and rival AMD which   > would have only Solaris on it.  F You place far too much value on NSK and VMS.  I don't follow NSK much,G but even VMS's owners don't seem to place much value on it beyond cash-  cow status.    <snip>  D More of the same.  The processor battle is not over VMS or NSK.  YouD really need to get a grip on reality.  Outside of comp.os.vms VMS isE just not that important.  I imagine NSK is the same in it's circle of  supporters.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 12:55:26 -0500  From: "Ray" <no@spam.me>T Subject: Re: Will Rich Marcello either come clean or do some proper marketingand  PR( Message-ID: <g0qdf.718$mY4.186@fe06.lga>  J > HP is stuck with HP-UX, NSK and VMS on IA64.  HP cannot kill NSK becauseH > it is high visibility in Wall Street and HP can't aleniate Wall StreetI > casino analysts. So the odds are high that NSK would be ported to 8086.   % No, HP is not stuck with NSK on IA64.   K From my point of view, the Tandem boys made some shrewd moves. Or they were  lucky. Or both.   G A long time ago, they  were told to start porting to IA64. They dragged  their feet.   > Then they were told to port to Alpha. They dragged their feet.  E Then they were told to drop the Alpha port and restart the IA64 port.  They're dragging their feet.  F They already *have* a low-end port on IA32. Spiffing that up to run onD IA32-64 and moving some/all of the features from their high-end is a no-brainer.   ? Part of the engineering they *did* do was to move the lock-step J functionality out of the hardware and into the software. This work was keyL to getting the IA64 port off the ground. This work will in no way be wasted.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 12:15:06 -0500 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>Y Subject: Re: Will Rich Marcello either come clean or do some proper marketingand  PR  PRP G Message-ID: <QoadnUItI82AvuvenZ2dnUVZ_sadnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > re AMD > I > One potential for HP is to hold an auction between Intel and AMD to see M > who could subsidize the most the port of its 3 proprietary OSs to the 8086.   = Since two of them are big-endian, that's two strikes already.    ...   1 > Intel has nothing serious running on its 8086s.   I You just mentioned one yourself:  Solaris.  Strike three, and you're out   of here.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 01:47:22 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> X Subject: Re: Will Rich Marcello either come clean or do some proper marketingand PR PRPR, Message-ID: <43758FEA.FCEABED3@teksavvy.com>   Alan Greig wrote: H > I'd love to be proved wrong. Certainly they seem to have you convincedB > a port is more likely than cancellation and I was more than half > convinced for a while.  H HP is stuck with HP-UX, NSK and VMS on IA64.  HP cannot kill NSK becauseF it is high visibility in Wall Street and HP can't aleniate Wall StreetG casino analysts. So the odds are high that NSK would be ported to 8086.   G HP-UX is different because Linux is such a big competitor. On the other A hand, moving HP-UX to 8086  might be the only way to maintain the ? installed base. HP-UX customers will buy HP 8086 servers. Linux % customers will buy anybody's servers.   G VMS is different from HP-UX in that it doesn't have a direct competitor B and does offer many unique features, but not as unique as NSK. The@ problem is that due to lack of vision, HP may not see any growthL potential for VMS and would think that nobody would notice its disapearance.  D If VMS management internally act the same way as they act publicallyG (eg: everything is fine and there is no need to port to the 8086), then D VMS is doomed because they won't have fought to port VMS when it wasG time.  But if VMS management act, they should be able to include VMS in + the plan to migrate away from IA64 to 8086.   H The problem is see is that VMS management seem to have a mandate to onlyC cater to the installed base and only see sales potential in a small F niche and don't seem to realise the potential for growth for VMS if itH were to be marketed to new markets at the mid and lower end. And if theyA see the 8086 only as a low end crappy thing, they may not see any 1 incentive to push for porting of VMS to the 8086.   G If VMS management remain asleep at the switch, the best hope is that MS G will simply be lumped into NSK and HP-UX and ported to the 8086 because B HP won't want to be seen as killing products due to its mistake inE comitting to IA64. Remember that the Alpha murder was to support HP's H mistake and this is a very recent event still fresh in customer's minds.  F I don't know what Marcello may have done in his current position at HP: to improve VMS. But I sure didn't *see* anything dramatic.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 02:06:22 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> X Subject: Re: Will Rich Marcello either come clean or do some proper marketingand PR PRPR, Message-ID: <4375945C.7F3C34A7@teksavvy.com>   Dave Froble wrote:J > He's a guy in the middle, and if you want to search for a victum, he's aG > prime candidate.  He's had Alpha jerked out from under him.  He's had F > people tell him what hardware he can have.  He's had people tell him% > what kind of advertising he can do.    OR   <devil's advocate>  F Marcello and VMS management just haven't been proactive enough, alwaysC affraid to rock the boat. The end result is that real decisions are F taken without their involvement and they only react to them instead of* being truly an integral part of decisions.  H If they are wanting to try to rock the boat, but don't know how to do itF without losing their jobs, then they need to either find a sacrificialD lamp to do that, or hire someone who can help steer the boat without jeoperdising their jobs.  D If they are unable to sell/market VMS to HP management, how can they/ succeed in selling VMS to potential customers ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 02:24:56 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> X Subject: Re: Will Rich Marcello either come clean or do some proper marketingand PR PRPR, Message-ID: <437598B5.CF205F0E@teksavvy.com>   re AMD  G One potential for HP is to hold an auction between Intel and AMD to see K who could subsidize the most the port of its 3 proprietary OSs to the 8086.   E For AMD, it would be a big win to have VMS and NSK. It would have the H majority of serious OSs on its chips (Solaris, VMS and NSK) and have its' chips used in large enterprise systems.   C Intel has nothing serious running on its 8086s. Gaining VMS and NSK E would make it an industrial strength architecture and rival AMD which  would have only Solaris on it.  B And when you consider the special system interfaces needed to makeB galaxy class machines, and the special hardware needed to run NSK,C whoever gets VMS and NSK will have a leg up in releasing enterprise N class 8086s because they will have direct contacts with the NSK/VMS engineers.  H But this isn't so easy as with Alpha. It was easy for Intel to subsidizeE the VMS and NSK ports because in exchange, they got use of all of the E Alpha intellectual property and got rid of the pesky Alpha competitor F that would have made ist IA64 look worse than the original 8088 on the
 first IBM PC.   F But now, there is much less leverage. It is just a competition betweenC Intel and AMD to see who can get the publicity from getting serious ) operating systems running on their chips.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.632 ************************                                                                       ŭ<2]m$INAwQw?r/;۴=L45V_c2ywIZc6߫.cG88+2) I&L^83#n!3v" /H\m
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