1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 15 Nov 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 638       Contents: Re: copy [000000...]*.* # LK201 surgery: broken leg for R key ' Re: LK201 surgery: broken leg for R key ' Re: LK201 surgery: broken leg for R key  Motif sniffing Motif sniffing Re: Motif sniffing+ Re: OT: Sun's Andy Bechtolsheim  on Itanium + Re: OT: Sun's Andy Bechtolsheim  on Itanium + Re: OT: Sun's Andy Bechtolsheim  on Itanium + Re: OT: Sun's Andy Bechtolsheim  on Itanium + Re: OT: Sun's Andy Bechtolsheim  on Itanium + Re: OT: Sun's Andy Bechtolsheim  on Itanium + Re: OT: Sun's Andy Bechtolsheim  on Itanium + Re: OT: Sun's Andy Bechtolsheim  on Itanium + Re: OT: Sun's Andy Bechtolsheim  on Itanium - Re: Request for feedback - BACKUP enhancement - Re: Request for feedback - BACKUP enhancement " Re: Unable to Boot Firmware CD-ROM" Re: Unable to Boot Firmware CD-ROM? Re: Where to locate ECU diskette for 2100 & 2100A Alphaservers? ? Re: Where to locate ECU diskette for 2100 & 2100A Alphaservers? & [ANN] Data Plotting Library DISLIN 9.0  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 08:06:38 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)  Subject: Re: copy [000000...]*.*$ Message-ID: <dlc4ud$tvv$1@online.de>  5 In article <437914F3.212291A7@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei ' <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:     > Jeff Cameron wrote: D > > $BACKUP/IGNORE=INTER source-disk:[*...]*.*;*  target-disk:[*...]< > > (Note do not use [000000...]*.*;* as the specification). >  > 1 > What is the issue with using [000000...]*.*.* ?   D It depends on whether one wants the *.SYS files located in the root  directory or not.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 02:50:12 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> , Subject: LK201 surgery: broken leg for R key, Message-ID: <4379930B.6BCC1DAB@teksavvy.com>  B Yesterday, my R key on my LK201 equipped workstation started to be- flaxy. Today, it stopped working alltogether.   F So I took the kayboard apart and gave it a good clean (wash keycaps inC dish soap and use air pressure to push the gunk out of the board).    G Still didn't work. I could see the R key make full travel downwards but F not make contact. But with a small screwdriver pushing down instead of. the key, it had no problem generating an R....  E There are 2 metal legs providing the spring support, a 3rd leg in the @ middle is what moves down to make the R when the key is pressed.  A Turns out that one of the main legs was broken. Cracked/separated H cleanly.  Interesting development. I should sue Digital for not buildingE LK201 solidly enough to last more than 18 years... (this one is circa H 1987). Still don't undertand how that tab could have simply cracked like that.   C Anyways, since I had nothing to lose, I removed some of the plastic E above to gain access to the area, and used a soldering iron to rejoin A the broken leg. Had to use swiss army knife to remair some of the F heat/melt damage to the star shape tower in which the key travels, butE all seems to be working find now !  (not sure how long it will last). D (I also used tiny tools including a very small allen key to bend theG middle leg down a bit so it would require less pressure to activate the  R key.    D Because LK201s are no longer in production, I now hesitate to simply* swap broken ones with some spares I have.   G Is there anything special about the R key ? Is it used much more on VMS  than any other key ?    ? And it is always strange after cleaning a keyboard how it feels E differently. I think it takes a while befor key travel becomes smooth  again.    G BTW, did the DEC engineer who decided to use those damned screws on the  LK201 ever get fired ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 11:16:53 -0500 - From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> 0 Subject: Re: LK201 surgery: broken leg for R keyI Message-ID: <8660a3a10511150816m63d5bd77s31d46b8593c70934@mail.gmail.com>   ; On 11/15/05, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote: D > Yesterday, my R key on my LK201 equipped workstation started to be/ > flaxy. Today, it stopped working alltogether.  > H > So I took the kayboard apart and gave it a good clean (wash keycaps inD > dish soap and use air pressure to push the gunk out of the board). > I > Still didn't work. I could see the R key make full travel downwards but H > not make contact. But with a small screwdriver pushing down instead of0 > the key, it had no problem generating an R.... > G > There are 2 metal legs providing the spring support, a 3rd leg in the B > middle is what moves down to make the R when the key is pressed. > C > Turns out that one of the main legs was broken. Cracked/separated J > cleanly.  Interesting development. I should sue Digital for not buildingG > LK201 solidly enough to last more than 18 years... (this one is circa J > 1987). Still don't undertand how that tab could have simply cracked like > that.  > E > Anyways, since I had nothing to lose, I removed some of the plastic G > above to gain access to the area, and used a soldering iron to rejoin C > the broken leg. Had to use swiss army knife to remair some of the H > heat/melt damage to the star shape tower in which the key travels, butG > all seems to be working find now !  (not sure how long it will last). F > (I also used tiny tools including a very small allen key to bend theI > middle leg down a bit so it would require less pressure to activate the  > R key. >  > F > Because LK201s are no longer in production, I now hesitate to simply+ > swap broken ones with some spares I have.  > I > Is there anything special about the R key ? Is it used much more on VMS  > than any other key ? > A > And it is always strange after cleaning a keyboard how it feels G > differently. I think it takes a while befor key travel becomes smooth  > again. > I > BTW, did the DEC engineer who decided to use those damned screws on the  > LK201 ever get fired ? >   @ Hi, jf-  off-topic- can the pixellated cat logo be turned into a proper X background?  " and I don't mean using xv, either.  C Your story reminds me of the time years ago when the numeric keypad D "Enter" key on the Wyse keyboard for my wife's 286 system died (ThisE is no small matter for someone who does accounting and enters numbers 
 by touch)-  F Non-standard, of course- had the little RJ connector like the older LK
 keyboards do.   " I started trying to hunt one down.  3 Wyse said they'd gladly sell me a new one for $150. A I laughed and said that the *entire system* wasn't worth that any   more, much less just a keyboard.  L And after exhausting a number of other possibilities, I dragged out the too= ls. C (Yes, children, once upon a time people actually repaired keyboards 8 instead of just throwing them away when they got flaky.)  D It turned out that each key had its own *mechanical switch* that wasF soldered onto the PCB.   In addition, all the switches were identical.   Problem solved.   E I told my wife that she'd have to live without a right-hand "Control" F key, desoldered both switches, put the good switch (turned 90 degrees)E in the numeric "Enter" position, put the dead switch in the "Control" / position, closed the plastic and plugged it in.   L It worked right up until the day the MFM controller on the system passed aw= ay.    WWWebb  L PS- Dave Turner's got keyboards (or he did last time I checked) if you need=  one.    --C NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related  correspondence. C All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located at# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 12:16:40 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 0 Subject: Re: LK201 surgery: broken leg for R key0 Message-ID: <11nk5ulbnggu1fd@corp.supernews.com>   William Webb wrote: = > On 11/15/05, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:  > D >>Yesterday, my R key on my LK201 equipped workstation started to be/ >>flaxy. Today, it stopped working alltogether.   " Ok, similar topic, a cry for help.  F I've got a LK-411 keyboard with 3 keys missing.  "Z", "left Alt", and G "left compose".  I really miss the "Z".  Having the Alt would be nice.  ( Probably better off without the compose.  I Anybody have a broken LK-411 keyboard that is only good for spare parts?  D   I'd really like to have a "Z" key at least.  Picking up a pen and H sticking it down the hole where the "Z" key should be every time I need  a "Z" is becoming tiring.    Any and all help appriciated.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2005 23:01:34 -0800! From: "meidan" <meidan@gmail.com>  Subject: Motif sniffing B Message-ID: <1132038094.384139.26910@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   Hi all, A I used to work with a little utility that sniffed the X protocol.  I can not remember what it was.   Does anyone know such a utility?   Thanks.    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2005 23:48:48 -0800! From: "meidan" <meidan@gmail.com>  Subject: Motif sniffing C Message-ID: <1132040928.303274.322410@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>    Hi all, A I used to work with a little utility that sniffed the X protocol.  I can not remember what it was.   Does anyone know such a utility?   Thanks.    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Nov 2005 13:22:32 +0100. From: huber@NOBODY-mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber) Subject: Re: Motif sniffing + Message-ID: <$iz3pBKIM1kw@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>   g In article <1132040928.303274.322410@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, "meidan" <meidan@gmail.com> writes: C > I used to work with a little utility that sniffed the X protocol. ! > I can not remember what it was. " > Does anyone know such a utility?   Was it XSCAN ?2   http://www.xfocus.net/tools/200206/xscan.tar.gz    --  @    Joseph Huber , Muenchen,Germany:  http://www.huber-joseph.de/   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 10:33:08 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>4 Subject: Re: OT: Sun's Andy Bechtolsheim  on Itanium; Message-ID: <EPief.6123$6A4.2533@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>    GreyCloud wrote:   >  > + > http://www.sgi.com/industries/government/   9 I do wonder how this will go down with government buyers:   O http://www.sgi.com/company_info/newsroom/press_releases/2005/november/nyse.html  === $ SGI Securities to Cease NYSE Trading  F MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif., (November 1, 2005)SGI announced today that it G has been advised by the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE) that its common  D stock - ticker symbol SGI - and its 6.5% Senior Secured Convertible I Notes due June 1, 2009 - ticker symbol SGI 09 - will no longer be traded  G on the NYSE beginning with the opening of business on Monday, November  H 7, 2005. The Company expects its common stock will be quoted on the OTC  Bulletin Board.   I As previously reported, SGI received notice from the NYSE on May 9, 2005  H that SGI's common stock had fallen below the NYSE's minimum share price D standard for continued listing. The NYSE's standard requires that a I company's common stock trade at a minimum average closing share price of  I $1.00 during a consecutive 30-day trading period. SGI's common stock has  . not returned to compliance with this standard.  F On November 1, 2005, the NYSE notified SGI of its decision to suspend F trading and stated that an application to the Securities and Exchange C Commission to delist these securities from the NYSE is pending the  $ completion of applicable procedures. === - And some analysis on the new Itanium monsters   7 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/11/15/sgi_altix_4000/   C Without question, SGI's focus on bringing Linux to the highest-end  G systems has been appreciated by the industry. Its reliance on Itanium,  # however, has proved less rewarding.   F Back when SGI pitched Irix on MIPS, it was burned just by the idea of F Itanic. Customers questioned how SGI could compete against this super I chip from Intel and HP and stalled their purchases of SGI gear. That was   the first burn.   F Then SGI actually moved to Itanic and saw the chip struggle to gain a G foothold in the server market. Intel still has not shipped a dual-core  G Itanium, while competitors busy away on their second, third and fourth  H generation dual-core parts. In addition, HP stands as the clear Itanium B server leader, making SGI look like an also ran tied to a rival's ( architecture. Industry standard? Hardly.  I The slow sales of Itanium-based gear have left SGI in financial turmoil.  D It now trades on the pink sheets and has a market cap far less than # relative newcomer Rackable Systems.   G Customers aren't likely to flock to the Altix 4000 until the dual-core  G Montecito ships arrived in the middle of next year. That's a long time  ! to wait for a troubled concern.       > And some videos. > 7 > http://www.sgi.com/industries/government/weather.html  >  > Whatever happened to JSTARS??    --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 07:12:20 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 4 Subject: Re: OT: Sun's Andy Bechtolsheim  on Itanium, Message-ID: <4379D06C.7B80047E@teksavvy.com>   Re: SGI delisted from NYSE.   4 It isn't the only company to have lost its listings.  4 To me, the real concern about HP is "restructuring".  F The Wall Street Casino Analysts have often asked if HP should spin offD its PC and printer business. They have never asked whether HP shouldG spin off/sell/dismantle its proprietary enterprise systems and focus on  Wintel servers.   F The death of that IA64 thing would make it quite easy for HP to simplyD say Sayonara to those proprietary systems such as HP-UX, NSK and VMSH running on proprietary hardware and focus exclusively on making industryG standard servers, computers and of course package $0.02 of ink in a $40  plastic cartridge.   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Nov 2005 14:58:44 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)4 Subject: Re: OT: Sun's Andy Bechtolsheim  on Itanium+ Message-ID: <3tubd4FumngnU1@individual.net>   : In article <sPydnXCiboZt7uTenZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d@bresnan.com>,% 	GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> writes:  > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > = >> In article <xaGdnSAok9bMj-TenZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@bresnan.com>, ( >> 	GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> writes: >>  H >>>Currently.  It appears that the Military is taking a big interest in 7 >>>their systems and what these systems have to offer.   >>   >>  D >> Care to provide some pointers?  I found one article about DOD and >> SGI and that was from April.  >>   >>  E >>>                                                    Which used to  J >>>belong to the old DEC VMS systems.  I always wondered who the military J >>>was buying from.  Check out their military videos.  Small market niche : >>>really.  Only takes a few sales to make a hefty profit. >>   >>  : >> Unless your giving them away like most Itanium systems. > + > http://www.sgi.com/industries/government/  >  > And some videos. > 7 > http://www.sgi.com/industries/government/weather.html  >   1 I'll take a look.  I'll reserve comment til then.    > Whatever happened to JSTARS??   F Alive and well.  With new 3 new planes delivered between February 2003H and March 2005.  Still claims to be AlphaServer GS-320 based and I wouldG not expect to see that change.  I have seen no mention of plans to move F it to Itanium.  Considering power and heat budgets aboard an aircraft,$ I think it unlikely to be an option.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 10:38:05 -0500 * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>4 Subject: Re: OT: Sun's Andy Bechtolsheim  on Itanium, Message-ID: <437a00de$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  5 "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message % news:3tubd4FumngnU1@individual.net...  > ! > > Whatever happened to JSTARS??  > H > Alive and well.  With new 3 new planes delivered between February 2003J > and March 2005.  Still claims to be AlphaServer GS-320 based and I wouldI > not expect to see that change.  I have seen no mention of plans to move H > it to Itanium.  Considering power and heat budgets aboard an aircraft,& > I think it unlikely to be an option. >  > bill  M http://www.is.northropgrumman.com/products/army_products/e8c/e8c.html#gallery   L The E-8C (Joint STARS) built by NGC has delivered all of the aircraft in theK program (I believe).  I also understand that it will remain operational for  at leastH a couple decades with upgrades.  There are a variety of computer systemsJ on board, but the workstations and the central computers are all currentlyK based on a slightly modified (for form factor) ES40.  They all run OpenVMS.   L Upgrades take a significant time, as each aircraft needs to be cycled in one atL a time.  The next generation of computers has not been announced (and as farJ as I know has not been decided).  Heat and power budgets are without doubtG a part of the equation - weight and size is another perhaps even larger D consideration.  I imagine that the software cost to migrate to a new
 platform -8 and potentially a new OS base - is also a consideration.  J The current generation of systems was a replacement of militarized DEC3000' and VAX systems (also running OpenVMS).   H I've worked with NGC's Battle Management Systems people in Melbourne for= about the last 15 years, and have frequent contact with them.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 10:17:22 -0700 " From: GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com>4 Subject: Re: OT: Sun's Andy Bechtolsheim  on Itanium0 Message-ID: <7aadnePy1aLdhefeRVn-vg@bresnan.com>   Alan Greig wrote:  >  >  > GreyCloud wrote: >  >> >>, >> http://www.sgi.com/industries/government/ >  > ; > I do wonder how this will go down with government buyers:  > R > http://www.sgi.com/company_info/newsroom/press_releases/2005/november/nyse.html  >  > === & > SGI Securities to Cease NYSE Trading > H > MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif., (November 1, 2005)SGI announced today that it I > has been advised by the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE) that its common  F > stock - ticker symbol SGI - and its 6.5% Senior Secured Convertible K > Notes due June 1, 2009 - ticker symbol SGI 09 - will no longer be traded  I > on the NYSE beginning with the opening of business on Monday, November  J > 7, 2005. The Company expects its common stock will be quoted on the OTC  > Bulletin Board.  > K > As previously reported, SGI received notice from the NYSE on May 9, 2005  J > that SGI's common stock had fallen below the NYSE's minimum share price F > standard for continued listing. The NYSE's standard requires that a K > company's common stock trade at a minimum average closing share price of  K > $1.00 during a consecutive 30-day trading period. SGI's common stock has  0 > not returned to compliance with this standard. > H > On November 1, 2005, the NYSE notified SGI of its decision to suspend H > trading and stated that an application to the Securities and Exchange E > Commission to delist these securities from the NYSE is pending the  & > completion of applicable procedures. > === / > And some analysis on the new Itanium monsters  > 9 > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/11/15/sgi_altix_4000/  > E > Without question, SGI's focus on bringing Linux to the highest-end  I > systems has been appreciated by the industry. Its reliance on Itanium,  % > however, has proved less rewarding.  > H > Back when SGI pitched Irix on MIPS, it was burned just by the idea of H > Itanic. Customers questioned how SGI could compete against this super K > chip from Intel and HP and stalled their purchases of SGI gear. That was   > the first burn.  > H > Then SGI actually moved to Itanic and saw the chip struggle to gain a I > foothold in the server market. Intel still has not shipped a dual-core  I > Itanium, while competitors busy away on their second, third and fourth  J > generation dual-core parts. In addition, HP stands as the clear Itanium D > server leader, making SGI look like an also ran tied to a rival's * > architecture. Industry standard? Hardly. > K > The slow sales of Itanium-based gear have left SGI in financial turmoil.  F > It now trades on the pink sheets and has a market cap far less than % > relative newcomer Rackable Systems.  > I > Customers aren't likely to flock to the Altix 4000 until the dual-core  I > Montecito ships arrived in the middle of next year. That's a long time  # > to wait for a troubled concern.    E You'd be surprised at what the government would buy.  These concerns  C don't bother them for some reason.  I've seen worse decisions made. C If the specifications document for what they want, and some really  I klutzy system fits it precisely, then that is what they buy.  Been there  B and done that.  I had to be really careful with the specs and the I wording to get a VAX with VMS back in the 80s, and the process goes thru  I a few depts. and it always takes at least a year to three years before a  I contract is awarded.  By the time I received the 785, the machine was at   end of life.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 10:23:30 -0700 " From: GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com>4 Subject: Re: OT: Sun's Andy Bechtolsheim  on Itanium: Message-ID: <XqKdnZAdJegthOfenZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@bresnan.com>   JF Mezei wrote:    > Re: SGI delisted from NYSE.  > 6 > It isn't the only company to have lost its listings. > 6 > To me, the real concern about HP is "restructuring". > H > The Wall Street Casino Analysts have often asked if HP should spin offF > its PC and printer business. They have never asked whether HP shouldI > spin off/sell/dismantle its proprietary enterprise systems and focus on  > Wintel servers.  > H > The death of that IA64 thing would make it quite easy for HP to simplyF > say Sayonara to those proprietary systems such as HP-UX, NSK and VMSJ > running on proprietary hardware and focus exclusively on making industryI > standard servers, computers and of course package $0.02 of ink in a $40  > plastic cartridge.  I I saw the hand writing on the wall back in 1991, when DEC was overpriced  G and where Intel was catching up fast.  Even tho the Intel was inferior  H at the time to the vax chips, I saw the evidence of the technology pace E moving faster than DEC could move.  It was only a matter of time.  I  G even suggested to Carvell Moore to have DEC look into porting VMS over  @ to a faster cheaper platform.  He knew it too, but he said high I management wouldn't listen, so he quit and then soon became president of   Excel corp. H The best thing to do is to port to the amd64 and get it over with while I there is still time and a chance to compete.  It appears that the era of  * niche computing markets are to dissappear.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 10:27:12 -0700 " From: GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com>4 Subject: Re: OT: Sun's Andy Bechtolsheim  on Itanium0 Message-ID: <lZednUEN59UNh-feRVn-sA@bresnan.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:  < > In article <sPydnXCiboZt7uTenZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d@bresnan.com>,' > 	GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> writes:  >  >>Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> >>= >>>In article <xaGdnSAok9bMj-TenZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@bresnan.com>, ( >>>	GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> writes: >>>  >>> I >>>>Currently.  It appears that the Military is taking a big interest in  8 >>>>their systems and what these systems have to offer.  >>>  >>> D >>>Care to provide some pointers?  I found one article about DOD and >>>SGI and that was from April.  >>>  >>>  >>> E >>>>                                                   Which used to  K >>>>belong to the old DEC VMS systems.  I always wondered who the military  K >>>>was buying from.  Check out their military videos.  Small market niche  ; >>>>really.  Only takes a few sales to make a hefty profit.  >>>  >>> : >>>Unless your giving them away like most Itanium systems. >>+ >>http://www.sgi.com/industries/government/  >> >>And some videos. >>7 >>http://www.sgi.com/industries/government/weather.html  >> >  > 3 > I'll take a look.  I'll reserve comment til then.  >  >  >>Whatever happened to JSTARS??  >  > H > Alive and well.  With new 3 new planes delivered between February 2003J > and March 2005.  Still claims to be AlphaServer GS-320 based and I wouldI > not expect to see that change.  I have seen no mention of plans to move H > it to Itanium.  Considering power and heat budgets aboard an aircraft,& > I think it unlikely to be an option. >   G If it is working very well for the Air Force then they'll continue the  G contracts.  Believe me, the FEDS move very slow and are slow to change. G Then you have all that work that went into the logistics of JSTARS, so  H there in another behemoth that won't change any time soon... the supply  system.   E In the weather video, the only puzzling thing I have is why does the  G U.S. Navy consider weather data as classified SECRET?  That leads into   what they are doing.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 10:33:51 -0700 " From: GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com>4 Subject: Re: OT: Sun's Andy Bechtolsheim  on Itanium: Message-ID: <BMmdnQwmXpuBgefenZ2dnUVZ_s6dnZ2d@bresnan.com>   FredK wrote:  7 > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message ' > news:3tubd4FumngnU1@individual.net...  >   >>>Whatever happened to JSTARS?? >>H >>Alive and well.  With new 3 new planes delivered between February 2003J >>and March 2005.  Still claims to be AlphaServer GS-320 based and I wouldI >>not expect to see that change.  I have seen no mention of plans to move H >>it to Itanium.  Considering power and heat budgets aboard an aircraft,& >>I think it unlikely to be an option. >> >>bill >  > O > http://www.is.northropgrumman.com/products/army_products/e8c/e8c.html#gallery  > N > The E-8C (Joint STARS) built by NGC has delivered all of the aircraft in theM > program (I believe).  I also understand that it will remain operational for 
 > at leastJ > a couple decades with upgrades.  There are a variety of computer systemsL > on board, but the workstations and the central computers are all currentlyM > based on a slightly modified (for form factor) ES40.  They all run OpenVMS.  > N > Upgrades take a significant time, as each aircraft needs to be cycled in one > atN > a time.  The next generation of computers has not been announced (and as farL > as I know has not been decided).  Heat and power budgets are without doubtI > a part of the equation - weight and size is another perhaps even larger F > consideration.  I imagine that the software cost to migrate to a new > platform -: > and potentially a new OS base - is also a consideration. > L > The current generation of systems was a replacement of militarized DEC3000) > and VAX systems (also running OpenVMS).  > J > I've worked with NGC's Battle Management Systems people in Melbourne for? > about the last 15 years, and have frequent contact with them.   F Then you realize just how slow the gov is going to move on making any H changes.  Sometimes they are so slow that a person could actually start H working for the gov in that project and retire from it.  The worst case D I saw was when a technician tried to get a direct replacement for a F transistor in a nuclear instrument drawer... a 2N335.  They had to go G digging around the country side until they found in some scrape heap a  D machine that actually had that transistor and cannabalized it.  The F drawer was of the old pi transistor design technique, so it relied on B the internal properties of that era.  A different transistor just  wouldn't work.  H But I can see a problem with JSTARS if someone in gov. would review the C problem with the vendors.  Of course these contracts using old DEC  7 systems can also be junked in favor of something newer.    ------------------------------   Date: 15 Nov 2005 18:29:44 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)4 Subject: Re: OT: Sun's Andy Bechtolsheim  on Itanium+ Message-ID: <3tunooFul9jhU1@individual.net>   0 In article <lZednUEN59UNh-feRVn-sA@bresnan.com>,% 	GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> writes:  > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > = >> In article <sPydnXCiboZt7uTenZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d@bresnan.com>, ( >> 	GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> writes: >>   >>>Bill Gunshannon wrote:  >>>  >>> > >>>>In article <xaGdnSAok9bMj-TenZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@bresnan.com>,) >>>>	GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> writes:  >>>> >>>>J >>>>>Currently.  It appears that the Military is taking a big interest in 9 >>>>>their systems and what these systems have to offer.   >>>> >>>>E >>>>Care to provide some pointers?  I found one article about DOD and   >>>>SGI and that was from April. >>>>   >>>> >>>>F >>>>>                                                   Which used to L >>>>>belong to the old DEC VMS systems.  I always wondered who the military L >>>>>was buying from.  Check out their military videos.  Small market niche < >>>>>really.  Only takes a few sales to make a hefty profit. >>>> >>>>; >>>>Unless your giving them away like most Itanium systems.  >>> , >>>http://www.sgi.com/industries/government/ >>>  >>>And some videos.  >>> 8 >>>http://www.sgi.com/industries/government/weather.html >>>  >>   >>  4 >> I'll take a look.  I'll reserve comment til then. >>   >>    >>>Whatever happened to JSTARS?? >>   >>  I >> Alive and well.  With new 3 new planes delivered between February 2003 K >> and March 2005.  Still claims to be AlphaServer GS-320 based and I would J >> not expect to see that change.  I have seen no mention of plans to moveI >> it to Itanium.  Considering power and heat budgets aboard an aircraft, ' >> I think it unlikely to be an option.  >>   > I > If it is working very well for the Air Force then they'll continue the  I > contracts.  Believe me, the FEDS move very slow and are slow to change. I > Then you have all that work that went into the logistics of JSTARS, so  J > there in another behemoth that won't change any time soon... the supply 	 > system.   D The supply system has changed considerably in the last decade.  ThatF is not what will keep JSTARS flying.  The fact that it works and worksE reliably will.  But that also means until someone comes up with a new F system with the same functionality to pitch the old system will remainD pretty much as it is.  If anyone is working on a new system, it is aD pretty safe bet it is not VMS based,  That is not necessarily a good thing.  C OK, I viewed the video.  Let me address this first comment and then  give you my general comments.    G > In the weather video, the only puzzling thing I have is why does the  I > U.S. Navy consider weather data as classified SECRET?  That leads into   > what they are doing.  H First, what makes you think the SECRET data refered to is weather?  TheyE spoke of correlating clasified and unclasified data sets, the doesn't ( necessarily mean they were both weather.  I Second, it could have been weather data. If you have atmospheric pictures F that could reveal classified satellite technology the data produced by% those satellites would be classified.   C Third if you have an operation that is dependant on certain weather A conditions the predicitonof those conditions would be classified.   D There are probably numerous other reasons.  Lots of information thatD seems harmless to the untrained can be very damaging in the hands of an inteligence analyst.     F And now to general comments on the videos overall.  They are old. TheyA do not necessarily reflect any current SGI - government business. E The oldest was from 1998 and the newest is from 2002.  A lifetime ago  in this industry.     F The flight simulation is cute, but my Xbox can do that today!!  I haveE been in a CH47 simulator (recently) that does all that they claim for 5 theirs and it was definitely not using SGI computers.   E Origin 3000, Origin 3800, Origin 3900, SGI Onyx.  All of the machines B mentioned are MIPS, not Itanium.  And Onyx is a decade old.  Video6 games do what their "visualization system" used to do.  C Show me something current, other than the WPAFB system, that SGI is D doing with the government.  One system does not make them the leaderD and considering that the WPAFB system doesn't do anything that couldD not have been done faster/better with either XEON or AMD cpus it wasB probably another money loosing system where the intended value wasA in being able to make veiled claims as a form of bragging rights.   E If this was meant to show SGI as a powerhouse company pushing Itanium 0 systems to the government, it fails.  Sorry.....   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 15 Nov 2005 04:15:00 -0800% From: "steelerx" <steelerx@gmail.com> 6 Subject: Re: Request for feedback - BACKUP enhancementB Message-ID: <1132056900.884044.21530@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  C Guy, I think that both of these enhancements will be benificial and E would like to see them in the near future, can you have them ready by F year-end?  :)  And while your at it, how about a shadowing enhancement@ to handle 5 volumes, 3 mounted on-line, and 2 off-line, when youE dismount a current shadow for backup, it will automatically mount the @ oldest of the off-line volumes so that you always have 'tripple'A shadowing in place, and do not have to wait for backup to finish.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 08:42:53 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 6 Subject: Re: Request for feedback - BACKUP enhancement, Message-ID: <4379E5DC.60CDED86@teksavvy.com>  , How about BACKUP/LIVE $DISK2 MUA0:IO_LOG.SAV  G This would interface with the XQO directly and any write IO to the disk M would get copied to tape sequentially with time stamps every X units of time.   H This way, you could "replay" a disk's activity over a period of time andH stop at at the right time to take a look at what the disk looked like atE that very moment, then proceed and advance time and see what the disk  looked like later on etc etc.     , (sort of a new definition of "incremental".)  H Yep, this would probably require you start off with a BACKUP/PHYSICAL soI that all subsequent IOs would place the data in the same physical blocks.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 13:35:45 +0200 4 From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman.nospam@hp.com>+ Subject: Re: Unable to Boot Firmware CD-ROM & Message-ID: <4379E431.730C4E5D@hp.com>   Schnootling wrote: >  > Hi Folks,  > I > I've Googled this group for RUN/STOP discussions and looked at the FAQ, @ > but I can't see anything that encourages me to try a (possibly5 > destructive) command without asking y'all directly: + > I try to BOOT DKa500 and get the good 'ol F > "dka500.5.0.1.1 has no media present or is disabled via the RUN/STOP	 > switch" G > message. If I try to load/ready the CD-ROM by pushing the load/unload 4 > button, the tray goes in then pops right back out.I > Here is the result (abridged, with "polling" lines removed) of the SHOW  > DEVICE command:  > >>>show device" > dka500.5.0.1.1 DKa500 RRD46 1337 > isp0 slot 0, ... > dva0.0.0.1000.0 DVA0 RX23 , > dra0.0.0.5.0 DRA0 6 member RAID 5 degraded' > ewa0.0.0.4.1 00-00-..... twisted pair  > B > So, it seems like the CD-ROM (dka500) is seen by the system, but > unusable.  > G > The/My system was purchased from a reseller who had (of course) wiped G > all software off the box. I'm pretty sure everything worked before it G > was shipped. And, the CD-ROM is an internal unit, so I didn't goof up ? > any CD-ROM connections by reconnecting things after I got it.  >  > Anyone got any ideas ? >  > Confused Chuck     And some bad news:F I've seen the (apparently) identical behaviour on an Alphaserver 255 -2 the CD drive had gone west and had to be replaced.   Mike --  E --------------------------------------------------------------------- E Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that. ? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il* F Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------  -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----  Version: 3.1: GCM/CS d(-)pu s:+>:- a++ C++ U-- L-- W++ N++ K? w--- V+++$6 PS+ PE-- t 5? X- tv-- b+ DI+ D-- G e++ h--- r+++ y+++@ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Nov 2005 05:41:17 -0800, From: "rcyoung" <rcyoung@aliconsultants.com>+ Subject: Re: Unable to Boot Firmware CD-ROM C Message-ID: <1132062077.233913.120590@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   E Here's my ten cents...try a cleaning disk in the CDROM unit. Although E the message seems to indicate it could be a different problem (like a D stuck switch), I did have a CDROM that was refusing to work properlyF and the cleaning disk resolved the problem by cleaning off the optical sensors.  @ I have also seen ( have one now) where the switches you refer toB (power, run/stop, halt) "stick" in which could be causing the sameG problem you mention. Do the switches move freely (with a click) or does / one seem "depressed" and only minimally moving?   D And on a totally different issue, it looks like you "may" have a badE disk in your RAID (the degraded message), although maybe it just need  to be reinit'd.    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Nov 2005 23:29:07 -0800 From: mb301@hotmail.com H Subject: Re: Where to locate ECU diskette for 2100 & 2100A Alphaservers?C Message-ID: <1132039747.208425.102580@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   G Have ECU v1.11a windows nt and OpenVMS & Unix diskette, can zip them up  and mail them to u.    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Nov 2005 05:31:23 -0800, From: "rcyoung" <rcyoung@aliconsultants.com>H Subject: Re: Where to locate ECU diskette for 2100 & 2100A Alphaservers?C Message-ID: <1132061483.216789.183950@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   ; That would be great , I'll send my email to you separately.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 11:31:43 +0100 ) From: Helmut Michels <michels@mps.mpg.de> / Subject: [ANN] Data Plotting Library DISLIN 9.0 + Message-ID: <dlcdef$2c8c$3@gwdu112.gwdg.de>   B I am pleased to announce version 9.0 of the data plotting software DISLIN.   ; DISLIN is a high-level and easy to use plotting library for C displaying data as curves, bar graphs, pie charts, 3D-colour plots, A surfaces, contours and maps. Several output formats are supported B such as X11, VGA, PostScript, PDF, CGM, WMF, HPGL, TIFF, GIF, PNG, BMP and SVG.  B The software is available for several C, Fortran 77 and Fortran 90C compilers. Plotting extensions for the interpreting languages Perl, B Python and Java are also supported for the most operating systems.  C DISLIN distributions and manuals in PDF, PostScript and HTML format ' are available from the DISLIN home page          http://www.dislin.de   and via FTP from the server   )       ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/grafik/dislin   9 All DISLIN distributions are free for non-commercial use.      -------------------     Helmut Michels     Max Planck Institute for >    Solar System Research               Phone: +49 5556 979-334>    Max-Planck-Str. 2                   Fax  : +49 5556 979-240@    D-37191 Katlenburg-Lindau           Mail : michels@mps.mpg.de   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.638 ************************