1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 28 Nov 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 663       Contents: Another Java problem# Beginner: nesting DCL command files ' Re: Beginner: nesting DCL command files ' Re: Beginner: nesting DCL command files ' Re: Beginner: nesting DCL command files ' Re: Beginner: nesting DCL command files ' Re: Beginner: nesting DCL command files  Re: Configure tipsC Configuring OVMS TCPIP SMTP server to discard undeliverable mail??? G Re: Configuring OVMS TCPIP SMTP server to discard undeliverable mail??? G Re: Configuring OVMS TCPIP SMTP server to discard undeliverable mail??? G Re: Configuring OVMS TCPIP SMTP server to discard undeliverable mail??? * Re: Decent alpha system for OpenVMS newbie* Re: Decent alpha system for OpenVMS newbie/ Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today / Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today  Re: LICENSE questions  Re: LICENSE questions  Re: Motif sniffing Re: No more SETI on VMS ? & Re: question about set file/attributes& Re: question about set file/attributes& Re: question about set file/attributes& Re: question about set file/attributes= Re: Selling Alphaserver 256MB memory modules & other stuff... = Re: Selling Alphaserver 256MB memory modules & other stuff...  Re: shutdown and feedback  Re: shutdown and feedback  Re: shutdown and feedback  Re: shutdown and feedback  Re: shutdown and feedback  Re: shutdown and feedback  Re: shutdown and feedback  SSH password expiry fixed  Re: System services and DCL  Re: System services and DCL  Re: System services and DCL  Re: System services and DCL ' Re: VAX software available for download , Re: Vaxstation 3100 1gig limit & MOP booting, Re: Vaxstation 3100 1gig limit & MOP booting, Re: [ORACLE 10G] Installing on OpenVMS Alpha, Re: [ORACLE 10G] Installing on OpenVMS Alpha  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 28 Nov 2005 02:02:08 GMT8 From: Bernhard Dorninger <bernhard.dorningerATscchDOTat> Subject: Another Java problem 3 Message-ID: <Xns971C1EE1847D4bdscch@193.171.255.23>   	 Hi again, s We have another relatively minor problem with our app described in the thread "Java App crashes under user SYSTEM". 9 Once the subprocess is running, the app works quite fine. ` In the subprocess we load a native library (some special calculations), which we access via JNI.J The native code makes callbacks to the Java Code (also via JNI, of course)O If the callbacks return ok, all is fine and the app continues to run endlessly.  However, sometimes these callbacks lead to Java exceptions, which are caught in our JNI Wrapper via jnienv->ExceptionOccured and a subsequent jnienv->ExceptionClear. This procedure is suggested by the authors of JNI. However after some hours of operation with the exceptions keeping being thrown, the subprocess suddenly stops with a failed assertion. No traceinfo is given by the system, since it is not a crash.  ^ Assertion failed: s->exc != NULL, file JDEV:[fastvm.srcjava.sys.alpha]einfo_vms.c;10, line 349   The main process (i.e. main application) is not affected and continues operation. The problem is never experienced on other platforms than VMS. ? Can anybody tell me whats the meaning of this failed assertion?    Thanks,  Bernhard --     ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 20:06:16 GMT ( From: Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com>, Subject: Beginner: nesting DCL command files- Message-ID: <Ykoif.632386$1i.530078@pd7tw2no>   H I've added command files to my SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM file to define various A logicals and symbols and to call other command files that define  C logicals and symbols.  I know the first level of command files get  C called, but the second-level command files are not.  Is this to be  E expected for some reason?  This is OVMS 7.3-2 and I did RTFM.  Did I  , miss something about nesting DCL procedures?  H One of the second-level files is the unedited TCPIP$DEFINE_COMMANDS.COM G shipped with VMS, so I imagine its coding is not the problem.  Another  F of these second-level command files is the one shipped with SAMBA for H VMS.  After startup the logicals and symbols (foreign commands) defined A in these two second-level files remain undefined.  Below are the  ! relevant snippets from the files.   G Can anyone help with a pointer on where I went wrong, or what to read?   Thanks.    Terry    SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM  =================  ... ? $ DEFINE/SYS/EXEC/TRANS=(CONCEALED)SAMBA_ROOT DISK$NET:[SAMBA.]  ...  $ @SYS$STARTUP:STARTUP_PRODUCTS     * SYS$STARTUP:STARTUP_PRODUCTS.COM (level 1) ================== ... $ $ @SYS$STARTUP:TCPIP$DEFINE_COMMANDS! $ @SAMBA_ROOT:[BIN]SAMBA_COMMANDS  ...      SAMBA_COMMANDS.COM (level 2) ================== ... ' $procedure = f$environment("PROCEDURE")  $! $command = "CONVERT_TDB" $program = "''command'.EXE;0" , $'command' :== $'f$parse(program,procedure)' ...    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 16:17:19 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 0 Subject: Re: Beginner: nesting DCL command files, Message-ID: <438A225A.294F0E3F@teksavvy.com>   Alder wrote: > I > I've added command files to my SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM file to define various B > logicals and symbols and to call other command files that defineD > logicals and symbols.  I know the first level of command files getD > called, but the second-level command files are not.  Is this to be > expected for some reason?      No.   ! What you may wish to do is to add    $SET VERIFY   F just before you invoke the procedure which you think does not execute. You may also wish to add   $SET VERIFY . $WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "About to call procedure X"  @PROCEDURE_X0 $WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "Returned from procedure X"   
 $SET NOVERIFY   G This way, you have a better idea of what really happens (you can remove & them once you know really is going on.  B It is possible that the procedure is called but exits prematurely.  C Note that TCPIP$DEFINE_COMMANDS only affects the curren process. It ? simply defines DCL symbols. So when the startup job ends, those $ definitions evaporate into thin air.  G If you want the TCPIP$DEFINE_COMMANDS to be available to all users, you E need to call it from the file SYLOGIN.COM which is executed oprior to H invoking a users's LOGIN.COM when they login. This sets their process up with the symbols.   F YOu may wish to make a copy of the DEFINE_COMMANDS file which containsG only the useful utilities. That procedure defines a large array of less E than common commands whih you may not wish users to be bothered with.   F When you load up the symbol table with a gazillion useless symbols, it> also makes debugging of applications more difficult since SHOWF SYMBOL/GLOBAL * results in a gazillion items being listed instead of a far fewer in a normal process.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 22:22:34 GMT ( From: Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com>0 Subject: Re: Beginner: nesting DCL command files. Message-ID: <Kkqif.630337$oW2.344261@pd7tw1no>   JF Mezei wrote::  E > Note that TCPIP$DEFINE_COMMANDS only affects the curren process. It A > simply defines DCL symbols. So when the startup job ends, those & > definitions evaporate into thin air.  @ I see.  Both files, or abridged versions at least, should be in 6 SYLOGIN.COM, not the file called by SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM.   Thanks!    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 17:51:01 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 0 Subject: Re: Beginner: nesting DCL command files0 Message-ID: <11oke0rhnme2699@corp.supernews.com>   Alder wrote: > J > I've added command files to my SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM file to define various C > logicals and symbols and to call other command files that define  E > logicals and symbols.  I know the first level of command files get  E > called, but the second-level command files are not.  Is this to be  G > expected for some reason?  This is OVMS 7.3-2 and I did RTFM.  Did I  . > miss something about nesting DCL procedures? > J > One of the second-level files is the unedited TCPIP$DEFINE_COMMANDS.COM I > shipped with VMS, so I imagine its coding is not the problem.  Another  H > of these second-level command files is the one shipped with SAMBA for J > VMS.  After startup the logicals and symbols (foreign commands) defined C > in these two second-level files remain undefined.  Below are the  # > relevant snippets from the files.  > I > Can anyone help with a pointer on where I went wrong, or what to read?  	 > Thanks.  >  > Terry  >  > SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM  > =================  > ... A > $ DEFINE/SYS/EXEC/TRANS=(CONCEALED)SAMBA_ROOT DISK$NET:[SAMBA.]  > ... ! > $ @SYS$STARTUP:STARTUP_PRODUCTS  >  > , > SYS$STARTUP:STARTUP_PRODUCTS.COM (level 1) > ================== > ... & > $ @SYS$STARTUP:TCPIP$DEFINE_COMMANDS# > $ @SAMBA_ROOT:[BIN]SAMBA_COMMANDS  > ...  >  >  > SAMBA_COMMANDS.COM (level 2) > ================== > ... ) > $procedure = f$environment("PROCEDURE")  > $! > $command = "CONVERT_TDB" > $program = "''command'.EXE;0" . > $'command' :== $'f$parse(program,procedure)' > ...   H In the above, a single '=' sign indicates that the symbol is LOCAL, and G dies when the command file, SAMBA_COMMANDS.COM, exist.  If you want to  E call the command file to set up GLOBAL (to the process) symbols, ie;  I they remain after the command file exits, then use ':==' as the operator.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 18:53:32 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>0 Subject: Re: Beginner: nesting DCL command files+ Message-ID: <438A550B.8A888211@comcast.net>    Alder wrote: > I > I've added command files to my SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM file to define various B > logicals and symbols and to call other command files that defineD > logicals and symbols.  I know the first level of command files getD > called, but the second-level command files are not.  Is this to beF > expected for some reason?  This is OVMS 7.3-2 and I did RTFM.  Did I. > miss something about nesting DCL procedures? > I > One of the second-level files is the unedited TCPIP$DEFINE_COMMANDS.COM  > shipped with VMS,   G TCPIP$DEFINE_COMMANDS.COM doesn't "ship with" VMS, it is installed when E UCX (n.k.a. "TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS", the shorter, older name is  used for brevity) in installed.   . > so I imagine its coding is not the problem.   H I'm not 100% sure about that. I have a similar problem on my development  and production machines at work.  	 > Another G > of these second-level command files is the one shipped with SAMBA for I > VMS.  After startup the logicals and symbols (foreign commands) defined B > in these two second-level files remain undefined.  Below are the# > relevant snippets from the files.  > H > Can anyone help with a pointer on where I went wrong, or what to read?   I'm kinda stumped on that, too.   G I have a set of "sysconfig" commands supplied by the application vendor C which are invoked from TCPIP$SYSTARTUP.COM *AFTER* the point where  D TCPIP$DEFINE_COMMANDS.COM is invoked, and the global symbols are not! found resulting in IVVERB errors.   E I've not escalated this as it was easy enough to insert the necessary H symbol assignment into the list of commands supplied by the third party.? Actually, the third-party supplied spreadsheet giving a list of @ parameters and suggested values. I massaged that into a list of    $ sysconfig ...    ...commands.  F Should you get some resolution, please be sure to post it here. I'd be' interested in knowing what's happening.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 05:05:23 GMT ( From: Alder <PGDEHMKOKIMD@spammotel.com>0 Subject: Re: Beginner: nesting DCL command files- Message-ID: <newif.634455$1i.598092@pd7tw2no>    David J Dachtera wrote:: > Alder wrote: > I >>I've added command files to my SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM file to define various B >>logicals and symbols and to call other command files that defineD >>logicals and symbols.  I know the first level of command files getD >>called, but the second-level command files are not.  Is this to beF >>expected for some reason?  This is OVMS 7.3-2 and I did RTFM.  Did I. >>miss something about nesting DCL procedures? >>   <snip>   >  > ! > I'm kinda stumped on that, too.  > I > I have a set of "sysconfig" commands supplied by the application vendor E > which are invoked from TCPIP$SYSTARTUP.COM *AFTER* the point where  F > TCPIP$DEFINE_COMMANDS.COM is invoked, and the global symbols are not# > found resulting in IVVERB errors.  >   G Does JF Mezei's reply to my post apply to your situation?  That is, if  H TCPIP$DEFINE_COMMANDS is called from SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM then its symbols * evaporate when the startup procedure ends.  H > Should you get some resolution, please be sure to post it here. I'd be) > interested in knowing what's happening.  >    Terry    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 22:44:08 -0500 - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>  Subject: Re: Configure tips 1 Message-ID: <bM2dnU1VIJCX4BfeRVn-tg@adelphia.com>    Martin Borgman wrote:  > John,  >  > Thanks you for your comments.  >  > John E. Malmberg wrote:  > ! >> Page 30, discussion on fork().  >>I >> If a program has a MS-DOS/Microsoft Windows variant, instead of fork,  G >> it will use run-time library calls of spawnXX() with the "XX" being  G >> replaced with characters that indicate how the arguments are passed.  >>H >> I have not tested this, but it appears that this might be able to be G >> implemented with either a static procedure or a macro using vfork()  > >> and the corresponding execXX() functions, which means less ) >> modifications to the original source.    G > To be perfectly honest, most of the stuff I port is UNIX open source  I > stuff. And I did not come across any spawnXX() calls. But I think your  - > assessment of the spawnXX() calls is right. F > When I have some source code with a spawnXX() call, I can test your   > thesis. Do you have something?  I I saw this in the Open Office Source code a few years back, specifically   in the dmake program.     > Are you using the simlink kit?  " Only on some test systems at work.  $ > What version of GNV are you using?  , At work, I am using 1.06-11 with my patches.  8 [Code to create a search list for GNV files edited out.]J > This is a very good idea, I would like to add this to the porting guide.  
 Feel free to.   I > I have the very bad habit of correcting something that is wrong in the  H > first place. I would include string.h in getopt.c and I would include  > stdlib.c in obstack.c.  H Can you get the maintainers of M4 to put the fixes in the next release? A   Otherwise you end up making the same edits over and over again.   D Right now, M4 is not on a critical path for what I need to get done.  I >> I did not link in a lib$initialize program on the build that I did, I  / >> was depending on the DECC$ feature logicals.  >   M > Yes, this works when you don't use the CRTL command line parsing functions.   C As long as you set the DECC$ logicals before the main() program is  - called the command line parsing options work.   I Currently I am using a modified version of Perl that uses those logicals  D to change to a mode that is more compatible with Bash.  I am slowly : getting those changes inserted into the main Perl version.  I > There already is something in the gcc wrapper, but when I tested this,  G > there appeared to be something missing. This was quite some time ago  	 > though.   E In one of the projects I am working on, I have had to enhance the CC  ? wrapper every few days in one way or another to continue on it.   H > So you are finally updating the pipe code in bash. Or will there be a ! > completely new version of bash?   E Just an update to the version in GNV, it was needed as part of other   tasks that I am doing for work.   ' > Were you aware of this porting guide?    No.   3 > Are you interested in contributing to this guide?    If I have time.   F I am noticing that there seem to be several open source projects like D GTK and such that are needed for multiple projects, and a number of 
 smaller ones.   D It takes a lot of time to participate in the mailing lists or other I forums for those projects once an OpenVMS port is done, to follow up and  " keep the project buildable on VMS.   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network! malmberg@dskwld.zko.hp.compaq.dec  Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Nov 2005 18:14:43 -0800$ From: "Bob Armstrong" <bob@jfcl.com>L Subject: Configuring OVMS TCPIP SMTP server to discard undeliverable mail???C Message-ID: <1133144083.184201.250150@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Hi guys,  D   Is there any way to configure the TCP/IP services for OpenVMS SMTPC server to simply discard incoming mail addressed to to non-existent A users rather than returning a bounce to the original sender?  For D example, if my SMTP server receives an incoming message addressed toC "yahoo@mydomain.com" where no user named "yahoo" exists, I want the : server to simply discard it without any attempt to send an1 undeliverable notice back to the original sender.   G   Yes, I know this isn't proper netiquette or RFC822 compliant, but the G SPAMmers leave me no choice.  I receive literally hundreds of SPAMs per G day that are addressed to bogus user names and my SMTP server is always G tied up trying to bounce these messages back to bogus return addresses. D  I've got a couple hundred such items sitting in my SMTP queue right9 now waiting for the server to eventually give up on them.   @   I already know about the trick of using "SET FORWARD/USER=" to? redirect some junk mail to a bit bucket account, but unless the C incoming SPAM is addressed to a fairly small set of consistent user  names that hack isn't useful.   F   I just want to silently discard undeliverable mail.  I'm pretty sureF there's no documented way to do this, but I'm hoping there's some backE door hack to accomplish the same thing.  I can't be the only one with " this kind of SPAM problem, can it?   Thanks, 
 Bob Armstrong    ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 20:35:24 -0600 (CST) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)P Subject: Re: Configuring OVMS TCPIP SMTP server to discard undeliverable mail???2 Message-ID: <05112720352480_2038971B@antinode.org>  $ From: "Bob Armstrong" <bob@jfcl.com>  F >   Is there any way to configure the TCP/IP services for OpenVMS SMTPE > server to simply discard incoming mail addressed to to non-existent E > users rather than returning a bounce to the original sender?  [...]   F    I know of none.  I'm still at TCPIP V5.4 - ECO 5, where the invalidH names (> 12 characters, for example) still get through.  The drug dealerD with the floating Web site (currently in China, at 221.7.209.83, andG apparently impervious to complaints) gets me about 1000 bounce messages G per hour these days (resulting from undelivered junk e-mail claiming to C be from <various_fictional>@antinode.org).  My old AlpSta 200 4/233 B could not handle the load.  I got moved to an XP1000 (which is not1 similarly paralyzed under the load) just in time.   H    I'm told that V5.5 fixes the leakers with the invalid names, but thatC doesn't do all you want done (or not done).  You do have the (nadly I named) "Symbiont-Checks-Deliverability: FALSE" thing set already, right?   It does help some.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Nov 2005 21:51:09 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) P Subject: Re: Configuring OVMS TCPIP SMTP server to discard undeliverable mail???3 Message-ID: <QGg2LN2BHjbH@eisner.encompasserve.org>   j In article <1133144083.184201.250150@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Bob Armstrong" <bob@jfcl.com> writes:
 > Hi guys, > F >   Is there any way to configure the TCP/IP services for OpenVMS SMTPE > server to simply discard incoming mail addressed to to non-existent C > users rather than returning a bounce to the original sender?  For F > example, if my SMTP server receives an incoming message addressed toE > "yahoo@mydomain.com" where no user named "yahoo" exists, I want the < > server to simply discard it without any attempt to send an3 > undeliverable notice back to the original sender.  > I >   Yes, I know this isn't proper netiquette or RFC822 compliant, but the   E Proper netiquette would be to issue an SMTP Reject message during the G dialog.  Accepting and then later "bouncing" is not acceptable behavior  in this day and age.  I > SPAMmers leave me no choice.  I receive literally hundreds of SPAMs per I > day that are addressed to bogus user names and my SMTP server is always I > tied up trying to bounce these messages back to bogus return addresses. F >  I've got a couple hundred such items sitting in my SMTP queue right; > now waiting for the server to eventually give up on them.  > B >   I already know about the trick of using "SET FORWARD/USER=" toA > redirect some junk mail to a bit bucket account, but unless the E > incoming SPAM is addressed to a fairly small set of consistent user  > names that hack isn't useful.  > H >   I just want to silently discard undeliverable mail.  I'm pretty sureH > there's no documented way to do this, but I'm hoping there's some backG > door hack to accomplish the same thing.  I can't be the only one with $ > this kind of SPAM problem, can it?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 00:00:33 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> P Subject: Re: Configuring OVMS TCPIP SMTP server to discard undeliverable mail???, Message-ID: <438A8ED0.92D9DD9D@teksavvy.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:G > Proper netiquette would be to issue an SMTP Reject message during the I > dialog.  Accepting and then later "bouncing" is not acceptable behavior  > in this day and age.  H I agree with Mr Kilgallen (as much as he may hate my agreeing with him).  E There is a patch available on Alpha that allows the received to check F for VMSmail deliverability during SMTP dialogue (allowsing received toE jrejectr message before it is sent).  Mr Schweda did find limitations  with this feature though.    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Nov 2005 18:00:17 -0800 From: stuie_norris@yahoo.com.au 3 Subject: Re: Decent alpha system for OpenVMS newbie C Message-ID: <1133143217.102699.157520@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Hi RC,  C > I have been testing it on OS/X and I am impressed. We have Oracle H > (formerly DEC) Rdb running, and have compiled programs successfully on > it.   E Where is the OSX version available from?  What machine do you have it  running on?   ? I am hoping to use a Powerbook G4 1 Gz 1 Gb RAM.  Any comments?    Thanks   Stuart   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Nov 2005 19:51:29 -0800, From: "rcyoung" <rcyoung@aliconsultants.com>3 Subject: Re: Decent alpha system for OpenVMS newbie C Message-ID: <1133149889.042732.260970@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   E I have it on both an eMac and a dual processor G3, both running Tiger  10.4.3.   @ I got the source (V35) from http://simh.trailing-edge.com/ , andF compiled it with the gcc 4 compiler from the Xcode 2 developer CD fromD Apple. You have to build/install libpcap (http://www.tcpdump.org) as@ well beforehand to use networking (This is buried in a couple ofD "obscure" places in the docs incl some comments in less-than-obviousB places in the source code, so be sure to look them over carefully)    A few  things that I came across  A 1) http://www.wherry.com/gadgets/retrocomputing/vax-simh.html has C instructions for building/installing on Linux, which served me very   very well. I would look at them.  G 2) You can not telnet/ftp/ etc to the "host" Mac from the emulator, but G you can go anywhere else. The same behavior is mentioned under Windows.   C 3) You can create the CDROM disk images (say of the VMS install CD) F using the Apple Disk Utility (making a dmg file). Just be sure to turn off compression first.  D 4) On Macs you are limited to a 2Gb disk at max, but you can have "aG bunch" them, across multiple "emulated" controllers. They are woking on E getting the limit fixed. The limit does not exist on Linux or Windows  (I think this is right anyway).   G 5) There are 2 EPROMs (ka655.bin & ka655x.bin)  images. The "x" version F is for larger memory support ( > 64Mb). Be sure to add -DUSE_ADDR64 to the compile line.    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Nov 2005 19:56:22 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march todayB Message-ID: <1133150182.780271.69180@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  
 Lurker wrote: 1 > "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message > > news:1132844010.172444.16400@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... >  > ...  >  > [Much snippage]   = Apologies for posting in haste and missing my chance to snip.    > ...  > I > > Well, I think we should get our issues straight as there are multiple  > > issues.  > >  > > Claims in this thread: > > ( > > 1. Unions are good/bad for buisness:H > >    a.) bad, as they get -- according to some -- outlandish wages and/ > > benefits, hurting businesses and taxpayers.  > = > It's not the wages as such - if the people are getting them ; > on the merits of their work - great. It's when the unions 8 > force the wage level regardless of performance and, in9 > effect, short-change the people who can/could do better  > when it becomes a problem.  F Since when does market wage equal merit wage? What exactly do you meanG by "merit"? What about workers whose market wages are not living wages?    > $ > Which brings us to the next point: > J > >    b.) bad, as they often institute highly restricitve rules about whoI > > can do what work for a buisness or gov't., making it difficult to get  > > things done. > 
 > Exactly. > - > >    d.) good because they provide training  > 4 > Well, they may provide training but it's not free.2 > Union members pay for that. I have no objections7 > to that at all - if you (and your union members) want 7 > to pay for that, that's strictly your/their business.  > 3 > Companies also routinely provide training for the  > employees, so what?   E Well, I'd think that one has to at least pass some sort of qualifying 1 exam first if one doesn't already know the trade.    > I > > 2. Unions are good/bad for workers, getting them a better/worse deal. = > > This includes wages and benefits, and working conditions.  > > C > > One thing I noticed from some is a pure "every man for himself" F > > attitude. They argue that unions should not be allowed to lock out/ > > non-union workers willing to work for less.  > ( > Why should they be allowed to do that? >  > > I think that's fine to aE > > point. I have read news about what I feel are unreasonably unsafe 3 > > working conditions for some workers in the U.S.  > @ > Hold on a second - if the conditions are "unreasonably unsafe"F > that's probably a matter for prosecution, right? Not for the unions.  D Well, that's fine if one can get such prosecution. But what of cases where that's not the case?   >  > > And then there are the< > > sweatshops which at least one poster claims don't exist. > = > Not sure if you meant me but, if you did, I claimed no such > > thing. What I said (from memory) was that slavery is illegalF > in most, if not all, of the countries today. Yes, of course, illegal> > things happen (surprise, surprise) that's why I suggested to? > another poster to report to the police the cases he knows of.   D I'm not talking about slavery. I'm talking about sweatshops in third@ world countries: low pay, too few bathroom breaks, harsh workingA conditions, unreasonable productivity demands, etc. In some cases D reporting to the police will do no good. So one either goes jobless,C puts up with it, or tries to organize. You have another suggestion?    > @ > The answer that police doesn't have jurisdiction there doesn'tJ > hold water - it simply says there are no cases within that jurisdiction.H > And, in places where there are no police, I doubt there are any unionsE > either. So, please explain, how staging a bus driver strike in, say > > Melbourne, will help sweatshop workers somewhere in SE Asia?B > Note that the strikers had no demands with regard to that - only) > pay and work conditions for themselves.  > G > > I don't think it's a terrible thing to want to try to bring about a D > > world in which workers don't have to endure truly horrid working > > conditions > 4 > Well, yes, but is it the way? We sort of come back > to what you've said:  D I didn't say unions are the only way. I think markets should be usedG when appropriate. But I think there exist, and have existed, situations F in which workers had no choice but to try to organize. Now this is forF getting decent working conditions, etc; not explicitly to shut "scabs"E out. Let's not carelessly mix the two! (Oops, I think I was guilty of F this!) But I suppose one naturally follows from the other, and there's the complicating rub.    > I > > 2. Unions are good/bad for workers, getting them a better/worse deal.  >  > That is the question :-)   Ah, we agree! :-)    > K > > Principles have the problem of unintended consequences. I believe it is H > > important to address such consequences, even if it means backing off) > > from the originating principle a bit.  >  > True.    We agree again!    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 00:15:11 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today, Message-ID: <438A923D.86161D4D@teksavvy.com>  
 AEF wrote:I > What I meant was something like the following: Consider illegal aliens. E > One may have the priniciple that they should be caught by any legal  > means and shipped out.      D There was a feature documentary some years ago about how the USA hasG facilities to control and deport aliens when necessary. They have large B facilities under a Holland Tunnel service tower. And they use some= mighty powerful weapons to incapacitate uncooperative aliens.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 16:04:38 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: LICENSE questions, Message-ID: <438A1F64.ADDBAF96@teksavvy.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:F > Likely because the level of request from supported customers is low.  F While revenus generated by the hobbyist programme may represent a veryF very very very very small proportion of total VMS revenus, in terms ofG number of nodes runing the hobbyist software, wouldn't that represent a  significant number ?  F Also, are there not some types of paying customers whose licences mustH be renewed annually ? (educational for instance ?) Those would also have2 to delete licences and install new ones each year.   Ideally, one would have   A LICENCE/DELETE/SELECT=copy_with_earliest_termination_date/CONFIRM   H which would only delete licences where a more recent termination date of the same product exists.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 17:32:51 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  Subject: Re: LICENSE questions0 Message-ID: <11okcuqiiu4vo9f@corp.supernews.com>   Jeff Cameron wrote: B > On 11/27/05 2:43 AM, in article dmc2k2$v0r$1@online.de, "PhillipL > Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply" <helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de> wrote: >  > / >>A few various and assorted LICENSE questions.  >>F >>Although it is easy to do it in a procedure, why is there no commandF >>LICENSE DISABLE /BEFORE command?  This would be useful when renewingI >>hobbyist licenses.  (On a related note, why not have /SINCE=TERM=<DATE> I >>which would allow /SINCE and /BEFORE to be used together, like with the A >>DIRECTORY command.  Now, "/SINCE cannot be used with /BEFORE".)  >>J >>Why are the commands AMEND and CANCEL mentioned in the overview, but not >>in an individual HELP entry? >>J >>Why is the release date of hobbyist licenses the same as the terminationI >>date?  In my view, the latter is correct and the former is one year too  >>late.  >> > K > I have been making a completely different LMDB file for each new hobbyist I > license release each year. I then make the system wide license database G > logical name a search list with the master (unchanging normal default H > database) first in the list, then my changing annual hobbyist database	 > second.  > I > Prior to this method I used TPU to read in the hobbyist license command F > procedure and create an equivalent license remove command procedure. > K > Just two possible alternatives for you to consider, for the same problem.  >   H Yeah, too many ways to solve this issue to involve VMS engineering in a  no-return project.  H My option would be to have a 'master' copy of the license database with F any non-hobbyist licenses, rename or delete the license database, and G make a copy of the 'master' as the new license database.  If there are  D no non-hobbyist licenses involved, just start with an empty license 	 database.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 13:42:59 -0500 ' From: Glenn Everhart <Everhart@gce.com>  Subject: Re: Motif sniffing , Message-ID: <J6CdnXWi5vmJYhTeRVn-pw@rcn.net>  
 meidan wrote:  > Hi, ( > As i can see this utility is for Unix.! > I ment a VMS util from digital.  > Thanks anyway, >  > Meidan > C What, you mean something like xpeek? That has been done for VMS, is ? on sigtapes and may be on some net sites still independently. I ! have used it for VMS in the past.    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Nov 2005 12:48:03 -0800& From: "SYSMGR" <willem@grootersnet.nl>" Subject: Re: No more SETI on VMS ?C Message-ID: <1133124483.130432.195620@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>    Robert Alan Byer schreef:   $ > Yes, there is a BONIC SETI client. > G > I'm making progress, I'm hoping to have something working in the next  > few weeks. > I > Once I get my WWW server back up (waiting for new SCSI cable) I'll post  > what I have on my WWW site :)  >  > Chris Scheers wrote: > > Robert Alan Byer wrote:  > >  > >>E > >> I'm currently going over the source code for BOINC and hopefully ) > >> soon will have an OpenVMS port done.  > >  > > H > > The BOINC source is available so this is a possibility, but if thereL > > isn't a SETI client (or some other BOINC client) for VMS, it won't be of
 > > much use.  > > : > > Is anyone working on any BOINC project client for VMS? > >   > Do you post just the executables, or code as well? because I'mB interested in that , and saince I don't get CVS built on my systemF (missing header files, for instance) I could not download the codeset.D I can only hope that adaptions to the code are accepted by Berkeley,E but my fear is they won't. VMS <> Solaris/ Linux or Windows, and that F seems all these kids are taught nowadays. Proof: they have the guts toF call package " Open"  where they mean "Unix", and dropped the facility2 to download the code as ZIP or TAR.GZ archives....   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 17:22:45 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> / Subject: Re: question about set file/attributes 0 Message-ID: <11okcbulbompi06@corp.supernews.com>   Jeff Cameron wrote: B > On 11/26/05 2:14 PM, in article dmamnj$dqt$1@online.de, "PhillipL > Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply" <helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de> wrote: >  > 8 >>In article <3urq90FvnvpjU1@individual.net>, Paul Sture >><paul.sture@decus.ch> writes:  >> >> >>>$ @FOO.COM/OUT=T = >>>$ convert/fdl=nl: T * ! convert to variable instead of VFC  >>3 >>Why can't I do the same thing with SET FILE/ATTR?  >> > # > Two completely different animals:  > I > SET FILE/ATTRIB merely changes the RMS file characteristics in the file J > header. Does not look at or touch the actual data. Result: same physical > file.  > M > CONVERT reads in the data, in one format and rewrites a new file in another # > format. Result: a whole new file.  >   H I haven't tried it, but I'd think that COPY would accept multiple input H files and write them out to a single output file with the format of the E first input file.  Copying to the desired destination would avoid an  ) intermediate file.  Too lazy to try this.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 18:38:51 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>/ Subject: Re: question about set file/attributes * Message-ID: <438A519B.EC2D00B@comcast.net>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:  > 8 > In article <3urq90FvnvpjU1@individual.net>, Paul Sture > <paul.sture@decus.ch> writes:  >  > > $ @FOO.COM/OUT=T> > > $ convert/fdl=nl: T * ! convert to variable instead of VFC > 3 > Why can't I do the same thing with SET FILE/ATTR?   F Because changing the attributes of a file does not change the contentsG of the file, only how RMS will attempt to interpret those contents when  you try to read the file.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Nov 2005 19:25:12 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>/ Subject: Re: question about set file/attributes C Message-ID: <1133148312.209865.272770@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>    David J Dachtera wrote: 1 > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:  > > : > > In article <3urq90FvnvpjU1@individual.net>, Paul Sture! > > <paul.sture@decus.ch> writes:  > >  > > > $ @FOO.COM/OUT=T@ > > > $ convert/fdl=nl: T * ! convert to variable instead of VFC > > 5 > > Why can't I do the same thing with SET FILE/ATTR?  > H > Because changing the attributes of a file does not change the contentsI > of the file, only how RMS will attempt to interpret those contents when  > you try to read the file.   E Right. When you write a file, you write it in a particular format and D it specifies what format was used in the attributes part of the fileE header. Now, when some application later reads this file, it needs to E know the format. RMS gets this information from the attributes in the G file header. So if you want to convert a file from one type to another, C you must change both the format of the file and the file attributes  data in the file header.  > SET FILE/ATTRIBUTES changes ONLY what the file header says theE attributes are, i.e., the metadata in the fileheader. It is useful if D you come across a file whose "attributes" are "incorrect"; i.e., theF attributes specified in the file header are not the TRUE attributes of	 the file.   < IOW, the term "attributes" as part of SET FILE/ATTRIBUTES isD misleading. It doesn't chnage the attributes of the file: it changes- what the file header SAYS the attributes are.   E It's like changing a gasoline car to a diesel car. If you only change D the fuel-type label by the gas cap, it won't work too well! You mustD also change the engine. (Yes, I know, and the gas tanks and the fuel lines, or at least drain them!)    >  > -- > David J Dachtera > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ > + > Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: $ > http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/  > $ > Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/  >  > Coming soon:( > Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Nov 2005 19:35:37 -0800$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>/ Subject: Re: question about set file/attributes C Message-ID: <1133148937.642270.125390@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    David J Dachtera wrote: 1 > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:  > > : > > In article <3urq90FvnvpjU1@individual.net>, Paul Sture! > > <paul.sture@decus.ch> writes:  > >  > > > $ @FOO.COM/OUT=T@ > > > $ convert/fdl=nl: T * ! convert to variable instead of VFC > > 5 > > Why can't I do the same thing with SET FILE/ATTR?  > H > Because changing the attributes of a file does not change the contentsI > of the file, only how RMS will attempt to interpret those contents when  > you try to read the file.   E Right. When you write a file, you write it in a particular format and D it specifies what format was used in the attributes part of the fileE header. Now, when some application later reads this file, it needs to E know the format. RMS gets this information from the attributes in the G file header. So if you want to convert a file from one type to another, C you must change both the format of the file and the file attributes  data in the file header.  > SET FILE/ATTRIBUTES changes ONLY what the file header says theE attributes are, i.e., the metadata in the fileheader. It is useful if D you come across a file whose "attributes" are "incorrect"; i.e., theF attributes specified in the file header are not the TRUE attributes of	 the file.   < IOW, the term "attributes" as part of SET FILE/ATTRIBUTES isD misleading. It doesn't chnage the attributes of the file: it changes- what the file header SAYS the attributes are.   E It's like changing a gasoline car to a diesel car. If you only change D the fuel-type label by the gas cap, it won't work too well! You mustD also change the engine. (Yes, I know, and the gas tanks and the fuel lines, or at least drain them!)    >  > -- > David J Dachtera > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ > + > Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: $ > http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/  > $ > Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/  >  > Coming soon:( > Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Nov 2005 13:53:05 -0800 From: vanjkos@gmail.com F Subject: Re: Selling Alphaserver 256MB memory modules & other stuff...B Message-ID: <1133128385.849368.97660@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>  4 Yes i'm in Italy,in Modena,40 km north from Bologna.   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Nov 2005 13:59:23 -0800; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> F Subject: Re: Selling Alphaserver 256MB memory modules & other stuff...C Message-ID: <1133128763.210498.137530@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   E There's a guy in Denmark who might be interested.  He's looking for a > good Alpha for a newbie. ;)  The DS20 would certainly qualify.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 12:13:25 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> " Subject: Re: shutdown and feedback( Message-ID: <ops0w04nwezgicya@hyrrokkin>  K On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 18:04:09 +0000 (UTC), Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES   1 to reply <helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de> wrote:   G > As a hobbyist, I have no support, so can't file a bug report as such. G > (I have a VMS day job, but the problem doesn't occur there since such F > things are always done from a fully priviledged account, so there is@ > really no valid reason for submitting an official bug report.)  C Seems to me there is no good reason why you couldn't submit the SPR : through your work, you are, after all, doing HP a service.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 22:44:58 GMT # From: Beach Runner <bob@nospam.com> " Subject: Re: shutdown and feedback9 Message-ID: <KFqif.23340$dT3.949@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>    Dave Froble wrote:  1 > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote:  > ; >> SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN.COM checks for a list of privileges:  >>O >> AUDIT,CMKRNL,EXQUOTA,LOG_IO,NETMBX,OPER,SECURITY,SYSNAM,SYSPRV,TMPMBX,WORLD   >> >>I >> with the idea being that it will exit without doing anything if there  H >> aren't enough privileges available.  However, if an account has ONLY 0 >> these privileges, the shutdown will fail with >>E >>    %RMS-F-PRV, insufficient privilege or file protection violation G >> when running SYS$SYSTEM:AGEN$FEEDBACK (if requested to do so during   >> the shutdown).  >> >> This is a bug, right? >>H >> Probably, not enough people have complained since most shutdowns are 3 >> done by SYSTEM or a suitably privileged account.  >>E >> BYPASS can be added to the list of enabled privileges to solve the J >> problem.  However, it would be nice if SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN.COM did the  >> right thing.   I You can set shutdown$verify "true" and see for yourself.  I'm working on   a similar elevation. >> > G > You might want to check the protection on the AGEN$* files to see if  K > they have been altered.  SYSPRV should be enough for any file in the VMS  , > directories with the standard protections. >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 17:37:07 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> " Subject: Re: shutdown and feedback0 Message-ID: <11okd6ocjdfqp4d@corp.supernews.com>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: : > SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN.COM checks for a list of privileges: > M > AUDIT,CMKRNL,EXQUOTA,LOG_IO,NETMBX,OPER,SECURITY,SYSNAM,SYSPRV,TMPMBX,WORLD  > H > with the idea being that it will exit without doing anything if there G > aren't enough privileges available.  However, if an account has ONLY  / > these privileges, the shutdown will fail with  > E >    %RMS-F-PRV, insufficient privilege or file protection violation   > J > when running SYS$SYSTEM:AGEN$FEEDBACK (if requested to do so during the  > shutdown). >  > This is a bug, right?  > G > Probably, not enough people have complained since most shutdowns are  2 > done by SYSTEM or a suitably privileged account. > D > BYPASS can be added to the list of enabled privileges to solve theI > problem.  However, it would be nice if SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN.COM did the   > right thing. >   E You might want to check the protection on the AGEN$* files to see if  I they have been altered.  SYSPRV should be enough for any file in the VMS  * directories with the standard protections.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 23:03:08 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)" Subject: Re: shutdown and feedback$ Message-ID: <dmddvc$v36$2@online.de>  F In article <KFqif.23340$dT3.949@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>, Beach Runner <bob@nospam.com> writes:    K > You can set shutdown$verify "true" and see for yourself.  I'm working on   > a similar elevation.  H That's how I say that it was running AGEN$FEEDBACK which was the problem  I > > You might want to check the protection on the AGEN$* files to see if  M > > they have been altered.  SYSPRV should be enough for any file in the VMS  . > > directories with the standard protections.  G I don't know what the EXACT error was.  It would be nice to know WHICH  8 privilege is missing, WHICH file access is required etc.   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Nov 2005 18:17:49 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) " Subject: Re: shutdown and feedback3 Message-ID: <f7OZ2cpXNvrf@eisner.encompasserve.org>   w In article <dmddqh$v36$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes:   E > I still think it makes sense to mention bugs here, independently of F > whether they are reported by some other means.  First, other readersI > might be interested in them.  Second, perhaps I am mistaken and what I  ' > think is a bug is actually a feature.   D Thirdly, someone might be able to suggest a method of narrowing downE the nature of the problem, perhaps permitting someone else to justify  a formal submission.  B If all problems were fully diagnosed in the field, there would notB be much cost to HP in taking submissions from all.  But they stillB must prioritize the work they do, and who would pay for support if others get it free.    ------------------------------    Date: 27 Nov 2005 18:18:19 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) " Subject: Re: shutdown and feedback3 Message-ID: <gkzTLY2gSLUA@eisner.encompasserve.org>   w In article <dmddvc$v36$2@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: H > In article <KFqif.23340$dT3.949@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>, Beach Runner > <bob@nospam.com> writes:   > L >> You can set shutdown$verify "true" and see for yourself.  I'm working on  >> a similar elevation.  > J > That's how I say that it was running AGEN$FEEDBACK which was the problem > J >> > You might want to check the protection on the AGEN$* files to see if N >> > they have been altered.  SYSPRV should be enough for any file in the VMS / >> > directories with the standard protections.  > I > I don't know what the EXACT error was.  It would be nice to know WHICH  : > privilege is missing, WHICH file access is required etc.   Try using VMS Auditing.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 19:20:51 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> " Subject: Re: shutdown and feedback, Message-ID: <438A4D53.FCEA6FA8@teksavvy.com>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: J > If HP value such input as such, then I could enter it as a hobbyist.  IfH > I do so as a paying customer, then I feel obliged to explain how it is8 > needed to run the business I am paying HP to support.     G Submitting problem reports should be "free" and there should be an easy G way for anyone to do so. Those who don't pay for support can't expect a  fix.    G But VMS, as a product, benefits from hobbyists finding issues with VMS, ? especially since hobbyists often start using some pieces before . commercial customers with stable applications.   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Nov 2005 15:48:24 -0800 From: d.champion@rl.ac.uk " Subject: SSH password expiry fixedB Message-ID: <1133135304.096852.72120@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  E This isn't a problem more an information post. Earlier on this year i F sent a message to the putty boys to see if they could fix the passwordE expiry problem which has been discussed, most recently in march. They F got back to me recently and in the *LATEST* development snapshot there	 is a fix.    you can now set   $ allowvms(non)loginwithexpiredpw  yes  F in the config file and when a user logs in with an expired password itF will allow the packets to be exchanged properly and a new password canC be set by the user. i have tested this on my system and it seems to G work. if other people could test it i think they would be happy to hear 	 from you.   ' see the link below for more information   T http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/wishlist/ssh2-password-expiry.html   *HOORAY*   dickon   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 18:30:24 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>$ Subject: Re: System services and DCL+ Message-ID: <438A4FA0.8A5F2F71@comcast.net>    Larry Kilgallen wrote: > b > In article <43877B61.169894D8@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: > ! > > Well, how 'bout, for example:  > >  > > $ x = F$SYSCALL( - > >       "routine_name", - % > >       "DESCRIPTOR=symbol_name", - $ > >       "REFERENCE=symbol_name", - > >       "VALUE=expression" > >               .  > >               .  > >               .  > >       )  > B > At that point, one might as well use a compiled language and getC > the performance advantages as well.  By choosing a strongly typed 7 > compiled language one even gets detection of defects.   D ...except that compiled languages do not integrate well with DCL (no> provision for "F$USLF()" (User Supplied Lexical Function(s))).   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 18:32:10 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>$ Subject: Re: System services and DCL+ Message-ID: <438A500A.27C10C7A@comcast.net>    William Webb wrote:  > B > On 11/25/05, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote:
 > > [snip]! > > Well, how 'bout, for example:  > >  > > $ x = F$SYSCALL( - > >        "routine_name", -& > >        "DESCRIPTOR=symbol_name", -% > >        "REFERENCE=symbol_name", -  > >        "VALUE=expression"  > >                . > >                . > >                . > >        ) > > K > > ...where the routine sets up the parameter block based on the arguments  > > passed:  > > E > > The "DESCRIPTOR" keyword tells the lexical function to insert the L > > appropriate information for a string descriptor into the parameter block > > at that point. > > D > > The "REFERENCE" keyword tells the lexical function to insert theD > > appropriate information for a the address of a longword into the" > > parameter block at that point. > > L > > The "VALUE" keyword tells the lexical function to insert the appropriateJ > > information for the value of an expression into the parameter block at > > that point.  > > K > > That's more or less how it works in VAX/DEC/HP BASIC, is it not, except B > > that the programmer provides the passing mechanism explicitly? > > F > > As to JF's inquiry about having a DCL code block run with elevatedI > > privileges (for example), I could envision extending the CALL keyword < > > and the "@" operator with additional qualifiers, such as > > < > > $ CALL/PRIV=(priv[_list])/[EXEC|KERN] label p1[ p2[...]] > > 
 > > ...where: J > > o /PRIVILEGE causes the routine or procedure to run with the specifiedI > > privilege(s) if the process holds or can acquire it(them) (the listed  > > privilege(s) or SETPRV).I > > o /EXECUTIVE_MODE and /KERNEL_MODE would operate similarly to the way K > > they do with the DEFINE or ASSIGN command, executing a CMEXEC or CMKRNL K > > prior to executing the requested routine/procedure, falling back to the I > > less privileged access based on the privileges held by the process at . > > the time the routine/procedure is invoked. > 4 > Sounds like "Build-your-own-security-holes" to me.  , How does this differ from invoking an image?   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Nov 2005 18:42:56 -0600- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) $ Subject: Re: System services and DCL3 Message-ID: <G5yUMn4qnkt9@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <438A4FA0.8A5F2F71@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: > Larry Kilgallen wrote: >>  c >> In article <43877B61.169894D8@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:  >>  " >> > Well, how 'bout, for example: >> > >> > $ x = F$SYSCALL( -  >> >       "routine_name", -& >> >       "DESCRIPTOR=symbol_name", -% >> >       "REFERENCE=symbol_name", -  >> >       "VALUE=expression"  >> >               . >> >               . >> >               . >> >       ) >>  C >> At that point, one might as well use a compiled language and get D >> the performance advantages as well.  By choosing a strongly typed8 >> compiled language one even gets detection of defects. > F > ...except that compiled languages do not integrate well with DCL (no@ > provision for "F$USLF()" (User Supplied Lexical Function(s))).  ? Yes, and that has great promise for encouraging people to write 4 the entire application in a strongly typed language.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 18:07:05 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> $ Subject: Re: System services and DCL( Message-ID: <ops0xhh3q7zgicya@hyrrokkin>  6 On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 18:30:24 -0600, David J Dachtera  " <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote:   > Larry Kilgallen wrote: >>A >> In article <43877B61.169894D8@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera   & >> <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: >>" >> > Well, how 'bout, for example: >> > >> > $ x = F$SYSCALL( -  >> >       "routine_name", -& >> >       "DESCRIPTOR=symbol_name", -% >> >       "REFERENCE=symbol_name", -  >> >       "VALUE=expression"  >> >               . >> >               . >> >               . >> >       ) >>C >> At that point, one might as well use a compiled language and get D >> the performance advantages as well.  By choosing a strongly typed8 >> compiled language one even gets detection of defects. > F > ...except that compiled languages do not integrate well with DCL (no@ > provision for "F$USLF()" (User Supplied Lexical Function(s))). >  How does bash do it?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 17:38:51 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 0 Subject: Re: VAX software available for download0 Message-ID: <11okda0hguq589a@corp.supernews.com>   Carl Karcher wrote: j > In a previous article, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote: > K > ->Note that Germany is still the world's #1 export nation---not just per  M > ->capita, but in absolute terms, even though, with a population of just 80M  > B > I had heard this recently and was shocked that it's about doubleI > China's. Add France into the picture and the two countries combined are  > TRIPLE China's exports.  >  > --8 > -- Carl Karcher, karcher.nomoresp+m@waisman.wisc.edu    = Wonder where Iraq is rated in their list of customers?  Iran?    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 15:56:17 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation 3100 1gig limit & MOP booting + Message-ID: <438A1D6F.3475B0D@teksavvy.com>    Martin Vorlaender wrote: > 0 > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:L > > I understand that the firmware in the Vaxstation 3100 is limited to 1gig	 > > disks  > G > I remember having heard that Wolfgang Moeller patched the 3100 ROM to J > enable boot disks bigger than 1 GB. To make room for the patch, he threw* > out, IIRC, the support for tape booting.    G Yes, I remember seeing his web site with full explanations on how to do E it. Problem is that I don't have a ROM burning machine and never used H one :-) I'll check my lottery tickets to see hwo much I won, and perhaps> I can then afford a ROM burning machine... (or just buy a DS20E workstation loaded with all the toppings, or better yet, buy myself a . tropical island and forget about computers :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 12:49:33 -0800 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 5 Subject: Re: Vaxstation 3100 1gig limit & MOP booting ( Message-ID: <ops0w2svr2zgicya@hyrrokkin>  . On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 15:56:17 -0500, JF Mezei  % <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:    > Martin Vorlaender wrote: >>1 >> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote: J >> > I understand that the firmware in the Vaxstation 3100 is limited to   >> 1gig 
 >> > disks >>H >> I remember having heard that Wolfgang Moeller patched the 3100 ROM toK >> enable boot disks bigger than 1 GB. To make room for the patch, he threw + >> out, IIRC, the support for tape booting.  >  > I > Yes, I remember seeing his web site with full explanations on how to do G > it. Problem is that I don't have a ROM burning machine and never used J > one :-) I'll check my lottery tickets to see hwo much I won, and perhaps@ > I can then afford a ROM burning machine... (or just buy a DS20G > workstation loaded with all the toppings, or better yet, buy myself a 0 > tropical island and forget about computers :-)F It may not be as expensive as you think, the real problem is to find   EEPROM's*  from that era and a machine to burn them.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 17:44:46 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 5 Subject: Re: [ORACLE 10G] Installing on OpenVMS Alpha 0 Message-ID: <11okdl46i2u3994@corp.supernews.com>    Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:N > 1a) I find the recommendation of SYSGEN PQL_Mxxxxx values uhhhm interesting.N > I understand CHANNELCNT and UAF parameters, but not the SYSGEN PQL_M hammer.  A The PQL_M* parameters are minimums for processes created without  ) LOGINOUT, so I don't see their relavence?   I         PQL_MFILLM sets the minimum open file limit for a process created I         by the Create Process ($CREPRC) system service or the DCL command          RUN (Process).   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 18:44:43 -0600 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>5 Subject: Re: [ORACLE 10G] Installing on OpenVMS Alpha + Message-ID: <438A52FB.958B8559@comcast.net>    Dave Froble wrote: > " > Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:P > > 1a) I find the recommendation of SYSGEN PQL_Mxxxxx values uhhhm interesting.P > > I understand CHANNELCNT and UAF parameters, but not the SYSGEN PQL_M hammer. > B > The PQL_M* parameters are minimums for processes created without+ > LOGINOUT, so I don't see their relavence?  > K >         PQL_MFILLM sets the minimum open file limit for a process created K >         by the Create Process ($CREPRC) system service or the DCL command  >         RUN (Process).  D Um, well, technically, the PQL_M parameters apply to *ALL* processesE where the associated values specified at process creation time do not F exceed the PQL_M values. Regardless of how the process is created, theH PQL_M values are *ALWAYS* the minimums. LOGINOUT doesn't figure into it.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.663 ************************            n87^8Б^{RݥZ*4R]J:Gj!m\ASAh#d1!ȑ$ͿY;Cn$f4FbiC]F+IR7j!/v`Cl(K9/uhH8R4٘{XR!?=YVyNn_&Ԥ #4#uF/Deg+T55j>I6TX[a9uz0c*c/vbG6oݩ5q=m}K<]߯xD>9Y0.U]#^phܡG3V5ּ^@\&Q-qoI@uxs yyoPv.AlǦ(?EMKQGFj%J,)l/CZ[X=,-9Km`3eX5*\ʏjޭ<=H /ղ0%]<jF;Jݷ}úXsGѽskM\a`Xii)ҐS/"GDNtNٕj8XS6	1=(
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