1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 06 Oct 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 558       Contents: Re: "Get off the Itanic" Re: "Get off the Itanic" Re: "Get off the Itanic" Re: "Get off the Itanic" RE: "Get off the Itanic" Re: "Get off the Itanic" Re: "Get off the Itanic" Re: "Get off the Itanic" RE: "Get off the Itanic" Re: "Get off the Itanic" Re: "Get off the Itanic"& Re: Alpha DB9 to DECserver RJ45 cable? can't dismount ? Double-postings via home.ne.jp? # Re: Double-postings via home.ne.jp? # Re: Double-postings via home.ne.jp? # Re: Double-postings via home.ne.jp? # Re: Double-postings via home.ne.jp? # Re: Double-postings via home.ne.jp? # Re: Double-postings via home.ne.jp? # Re: Double-postings via home.ne.jp? # Re: Double-postings via home.ne.jp? # Re: Double-postings via home.ne.jp? # Re: Double-postings via home.ne.jp? # Re: Double-postings via home.ne.jp?  Re: Drawlib not loaded Re: Drawlib not loaded& Re: How long for a shadow copy over CI& Re: How long for a shadow copy over CI/ Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today / Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today / Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today  Re: INFO-VAX gone berserk?P Re: Intel Itanium is for "Big Iron" (was: Re: Why did VMS users go along with th6 Re: Layoffs at HP : MH needs your suggestions or ideas) Re: Missed opportunity for VMS marketing. ) Re: Missed opportunity for VMS marketing. ) Re: Missed opportunity for VMS marketing. ) Re: Missed opportunity for VMS marketing.  MSA Storage Works password MSA Storage Works password Multi-Threading in DCL Re: Multi-Threading in DCL Re: Multi-Threading in DCL Re: Multi-Threading in DCL Re: Multi-Threading in DCL Re: Multi-Threading in DCL Re: Multi-Threading in DCL Re: Multi-Threading in DCL: Samba 2.2-8 build 20050817 ported to Itanium OpenVMS 8.2-1: Samba 2.2-8 build 20050817 ported to Itanium OpenVMS 8.2-1> Re: Samba 2.2-8 build 20050817 ported to Itanium OpenVMS 8.2-1> Re: Samba 2.2-8 build 20050817 ported to Itanium OpenVMS 8.2-1> Re: Samba 2.2-8 build 20050817 ported to Itanium OpenVMS 8.2-1> Re: Samba 2.2-8 build 20050817 ported to Itanium OpenVMS 8.2-1> Re: Samba 2.2-8 build 20050817 ported to Itanium OpenVMS 8.2-1> Re: Samba 2.2-8 build 20050817 ported to Itanium OpenVMS 8.2-1> Re: Samba 2.2-8 build 20050817 ported to Itanium OpenVMS 8.2-1 Re: Time to produce EV79s! Re: Time to produce EV79s!, Re: What is holding up linux on wall street?6 Re: Why did VMS users go along with the itanium farce?6 Re: Why did VMS users go along with the itanium farce?6 Re: Why did VMS users go along with the itanium farce?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 06:38:14 -0400 2 From: Bob Willard <BobwBSGS@TrashThis.comcast.net>! Subject: Re: "Get off the Itanic" 0 Message-ID: <FtednTsEkJs5YdneRVn-pw@comcast.com>   Richard B. Gilbert wrote:   G > Just got this from Sun Microsystems.  It's worth a small grin; we've  2 > been saying this all along; now we have company! > 6 > http://www.sun.com/emrkt/itanic/index.html?cid=46376  F At least they are creative - their new SWaP metric is just as funny as& the old MFlops/MHz or MIPS FUDnumbers. --   Cheers, Bob    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Oct 2005 06:14:27 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ! Subject: Re: "Get off the Itanic" 3 Message-ID: <YTFHsKPsZjSj@eisner.encompasserve.org>   r In article <_dZ0f.749$R62.469@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>, "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes:G > Just got this from Sun Microsystems.  It's worth a small grin; we've  2 > been saying this all along; now we have company! > 6 > http://www.sun.com/emrkt/itanic/index.html?cid=46376  ? Fine, so why don't you go say it in a Sun newsgroup rather than ) obscuring our techincal discussions here.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 12:21:29 GMT - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ! Subject: Re: "Get off the Itanic" < Message-ID: <dF81f.788$R62.134@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>  r In article <_dZ0f.749$R62.469@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>, "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes:G > Just got this from Sun Microsystems.  It's worth a small grin; we've  2 > been saying this all along; now we have company! > 6 > http://www.sun.com/emrkt/itanic/index.html?cid=46376  ? Fine, so why don't you go say it in a Sun newsgroup rather than ) obscuring our techincal discussions here.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 07:43:25 -0500( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>! Subject: Re: "Get off the Itanic" B Message-ID: <1128602607.05df521b4bd71866e5d08b235950a152@teranews>  E On 10/06/2005 07:21:29 Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:   K > In article <_dZ0f.749$R62.469@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>, "Richard B.  + > Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes:   L >> Just got this from Sun Microsystems.  It's worth a small grin; we've been. >> saying this all along; now we have company!  5 >> http://www.sun.com/emrkt/itanic/index.html?cidF376   K > Fine, so why don't you go say it in a Sun newsgroup rather than obscuring ! > our techincal discussions here.   > We've already had a discussion about this anyway, have we not?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 09:32:24 -0400# From: "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> ! Subject: RE: "Get off the Itanic" : Message-ID: <JFEPKAPBPMDFDBOIANGDKEHLGOAA.dallen@nist.gov>   > -----Original Message-----; > From: David J Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@comcast.net] , > Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 10:21 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com # > Subject: Re: "Get off the Itanic"  >  >  > "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote:  > > H > > Just got this from Sun Microsystems.  It's worth a small grin; we've4 > > been saying this all along; now we have company! > > 8 > > http://www.sun.com/emrkt/itanic/index.html?cid=46376 > J > If nothing else, it underscores that Sun's marketing folks stride boldly8 > forth to where OpenVMS marketing folks dare not tread. >   J To me it screams FUD and underscores a very real concern on Sun's part....   
 > Shameful...    I'd say tasteless      Dan       ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 13:21:14 GMT ( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>! Subject: Re: "Get off the Itanic" < Message-ID: <ex91f.790$R62.367@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>  E On 10/06/2005 07:21:29 Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:   K > In article <_dZ0f.749$R62.469@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>, "Richard B.  + > Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes:   L >> Just got this from Sun Microsystems.  It's worth a small grin; we've been. >> saying this all along; now we have company!  5 >> http://www.sun.com/emrkt/itanic/index.html?cidF376   K > Fine, so why don't you go say it in a Sun newsgroup rather than obscuring ! > our techincal discussions here.   > We've already had a discussion about this anyway, have we not?   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Oct 2005 13:43:18 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)! Subject: Re: "Get off the Itanic" + Message-ID: <3qknvmFf6jisU2@individual.net>   : In article <JFEPKAPBPMDFDBOIANGDKEHLGOAA.dallen@nist.gov>,& 	"Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> writes: >  >  >> -----Original Message----- < >> From: David J Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@comcast.net]- >> Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 10:21 PM  >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com$ >> Subject: Re: "Get off the Itanic" >>   >>   >> "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: >> >  I >> > Just got this from Sun Microsystems.  It's worth a small grin; we've 5 >> > been saying this all along; now we have company!  >> >  9 >> > http://www.sun.com/emrkt/itanic/index.html?cid=46376  >>  K >> If nothing else, it underscores that Sun's marketing folks stride boldly 9 >> forth to where OpenVMS marketing folks dare not tread.  >> > L > To me it screams FUD and underscores a very real concern on Sun's part.... >    >> Shameful... >  > I'd say tasteless    I'd say marketing.  E And not much different from other companies who actually compete with @ their competitors.  Do you really think there is any substantialB difference between a Chevy Cavalier and a Ford Taurus?  And as forB FUD, How is it possible that every car by every manufacturer is #1C in it;s class for Federal Safety Standards?  Unless, every car is a  class unto itself.  :-)   ? HP could counter this with active marketing.  Except that where > Tru64 and HPUX are concerned, Sun is probably right and we all) know that VMS isn't even in the equation.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 14:21:43 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)! Subject: Re: "Get off the Itanic" < Message-ID: <Xpa1f.799$R62.456@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>  : In article <JFEPKAPBPMDFDBOIANGDKEHLGOAA.dallen@nist.gov>,& 	"Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> writes: >  >  >> -----Original Message----- < >> From: David J Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@comcast.net]- >> Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 10:21 PM  >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com$ >> Subject: Re: "Get off the Itanic" >>   >>   >> "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: >> >  I >> > Just got this from Sun Microsystems.  It's worth a small grin; we've 5 >> > been saying this all along; now we have company!  >> >  9 >> > http://www.sun.com/emrkt/itanic/index.html?cid=46376  >>  K >> If nothing else, it underscores that Sun's marketing folks stride boldly 9 >> forth to where OpenVMS marketing folks dare not tread.  >> > L > To me it screams FUD and underscores a very real concern on Sun's part.... >    >> Shameful... >  > I'd say tasteless    I'd say marketing.  E And not much different from other companies who actually compete with @ their competitors.  Do you really think there is any substantialB difference between a Chevy Cavalier and a Ford Taurus?  And as forB FUD, How is it possible that every car by every manufacturer is #1C in it;s class for Federal Safety Standards?  Unless, every car is a  class unto itself.  :-)   ? HP could counter this with active marketing.  Except that where > Tru64 and HPUX are concerned, Sun is probably right and we all) know that VMS isn't even in the equation.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 14:21:53 GMT # From: "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> ! Subject: RE: "Get off the Itanic" < Message-ID: <5qa1f.801$R62.211@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>   > -----Original Message-----; > From: David J Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@comcast.net] , > Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 10:21 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com # > Subject: Re: "Get off the Itanic"  >  >  > "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote:  > > H > > Just got this from Sun Microsystems.  It's worth a small grin; we've4 > > been saying this all along; now we have company! > > 8 > > http://www.sun.com/emrkt/itanic/index.html?cid=46376 > J > If nothing else, it underscores that Sun's marketing folks stride boldly8 > forth to where OpenVMS marketing folks dare not tread. >   J To me it screams FUD and underscores a very real concern on Sun's part....   
 > Shameful...    I'd say tasteless      Dan       ------------------------------   Date: 6 Oct 2005 07:47:05 -0700 * From: "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net>! Subject: Re: "Get off the Itanic" B Message-ID: <1128610025.013749.76560@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>   Schroeder, AJ wrote:M >> That would imply that there actually *is* an OpenVMS marketing department. K > If there is, then whatever they are getting paid is way over compensation  > for the work they do.   F In the year or so leading up to the Alphacide, Rich Marcello seemed toE have some success in getting VMS advertised. Sales were picking up. I E have no idea why that stopped. At least I haven't seen any VMS ads in # UK trade computer press since then.  --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 15:21:31 GMT * From: "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net>! Subject: Re: "Get off the Itanic" < Message-ID: <%hb1f.808$R62.195@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>   Schroeder, AJ wrote:M >> That would imply that there actually *is* an OpenVMS marketing department. K > If there is, then whatever they are getting paid is way over compensation  > for the work they do.   F In the year or so leading up to the Alphacide, Rich Marcello seemed toE have some success in getting VMS advertised. Sales were picking up. I E have no idea why that stopped. At least I haven't seen any VMS ads in # UK trade computer press since then.  --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 08:42:30 -0400? From: "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" <david@hpaq.net> / Subject: Re: Alpha DB9 to DECserver RJ45 cable? 0 Message-ID: <11ka6p5jgbj7i9a@corp.supernews.com>  3 We have loads of these cables & connectors in stock    They are brand NEW original DEC   	 Cheap too    David    --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X252  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@icusc.com  Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html   ? "Bob Kaplow" <kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.mars> wrote in message - news:aSU8nBq9pUSr@eisner.encompasserve.org... I > I need to connect the console of my new DS25 to a DS700 terminal server  for L > remote console access. In the past I've used an H8571-J DB9 to MMJ adapterE > and the BN24H cable, or the H8571-J to a BC16E cable to an H8584-AC  adapter. > D > Is there an appropriate adapter that will work with a standard (orA > crossover) network cable? Is the H8584-AC what I'm looking for?  > I > I did find a bunch of DB9F to RJ45 adapters, that aren't DEC/HP and are H > labeled "terminal" and "74-0495-01" but they don't seem to work either withL > a straight or crossover network cable. Any one know what this part is for? >  > --  F >   Bob Kaplow   NAR # 18L   >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars
 (yet)! <<<G > Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf ? >     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org  www.nar.org  > @ > Voting for "the lesser of two evils" is still voting for evil.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 16:52:07 +0100 0 From: Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> Subject: can't dismount ? 4 Message-ID: <di3h77$q6o$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>   $ dism disk$www 0 %DISM-W-CANNOTDMT, DISK$WWW cannot be dismounted/ %DISM-W-INSTIMAGE, 7 images installed on volume   ) This (ODS2) disk used to hold osu_server. 6 I've deleted (& uninstalled) all the installed images., $ sho dev/fil shows nothing (except indexf)., $ ins lis/fu/glo shows nothing on this disk.) There are no printers or spooled devices.   / How can I find/clear these 'installed images' ?  Alpha VMS 7.3-1    Thanks Chris    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 13:37:40 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) ( Subject: Double-postings via home.ne.jp?2 Message-ID: <EM91f.14038$GB.2527@news.cpqcorp.net>  F   FWIW, I have forwarded the following along to abuse@home.ne.jp, withC   an example of the doubled news postings that have been appearing.   G   Please ignore the second posting of this message -- it wasn't me. :-)   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com      	--      Hello,  B   Something within your news feed is apparently reposting messagesC   back out -- there are doubles of messages being posted.  Here are B   two of the postings, with what looks to be the original and what*   looks to be a reposting from within your  '         ...news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp   A   environment.  The doubles are all referencing home.ne.jp in the D   headers.  This may well be affecting other newsgroups, too, though3   I have not checked groups other than comp.os.vms.   -   Thanks for taking the time to look at this,    Stephen Hoffman    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Oct 2005 13:45:21 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon), Subject: Re: Double-postings via home.ne.jp?+ Message-ID: <3qko3hFf6jisU3@individual.net>   2 In article <EM91f.14038$GB.2527@news.cpqcorp.net>,& 	hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes: > H >   FWIW, I have forwarded the following along to abuse@home.ne.jp, withE >   an example of the doubled news postings that have been appearing.  >   C Maybe it should have been sent to their peers so that they could be A shut off.  Good News Admins are getting hard to find anymore too.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 14:21:46 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon), Subject: Re: Double-postings via home.ne.jp?< Message-ID: <_pa1f.800$R62.593@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>  2 In article <EM91f.14038$GB.2527@news.cpqcorp.net>,& 	hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes: > H >   FWIW, I have forwarded the following along to abuse@home.ne.jp, withE >   an example of the doubled news postings that have been appearing.  >   C Maybe it should have been sent to their peers so that they could be A shut off.  Good News Admins are getting hard to find anymore too.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 6 Oct 2005 14:46:02 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon), Subject: Re: Double-postings via home.ne.jp?+ Message-ID: <3qkrlaFfd61kU1@individual.net>   C In article <1128609550.683793.324740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, - 	"Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net> writes:  >  > Hoff Hoffman wrote: G >> FWIW, I have forwarded the following along to abuse@home.ne.jp, with F >>   an example of the doubled news postings that have been appearing. > I > I did that as well. Maybe your from address will wake them up. I got an F > automated reply back saying my complaint was being dealt with but no > other response so far. >  >   5 Yeah, that really worked.  This one had three copies.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 6 Oct 2005 07:37:21 -0700 * From: "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net>, Subject: Re: Double-postings via home.ne.jp?C Message-ID: <1128609441.392273.314910@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>    Hoff Hoffman wrote: F > FWIW, I have forwarded the following along to abuse@home.ne.jp, withE >   an example of the doubled news postings that have been appearing.   G I did that as well. Maybe your from address will wake them up. I got an D automated reply back saying my complaint was being dealt with but no other response so far.    I >   Please ignore the second posting of this message -- it wasn't me. :-)  > P >  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------M >     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq P >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------G >         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com  >  >  > 	--  > 
 >   Hello, > D >   Something within your news feed is apparently reposting messagesE >   back out -- there are doubles of messages being posted.  Here are D >   two of the postings, with what looks to be the original and what, >   looks to be a reposting from within your > ) >         ...news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp  > C >   environment.  The doubles are all referencing home.ne.jp in the F >   headers.  This may well be affecting other newsgroups, too, though5 >   I have not checked groups other than comp.os.vms.  > / >   Thanks for taking the time to look at this,  >   Stephen Hoffman    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Oct 2005 07:37:16 -0700 * From: "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net>, Subject: Re: Double-postings via home.ne.jp?C Message-ID: <1128609436.323595.314610@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>    Hoff Hoffman wrote: F > FWIW, I have forwarded the following along to abuse@home.ne.jp, withE >   an example of the doubled news postings that have been appearing.   G I did that as well. Maybe your from address will wake them up. I got an D automated reply back saying my complaint was being dealt with but no other response so far.    I >   Please ignore the second posting of this message -- it wasn't me. :-)  > P >  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------M >     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq P >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------G >         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com  >  >  > 	--  > 
 >   Hello, > D >   Something within your news feed is apparently reposting messagesE >   back out -- there are doubles of messages being posted.  Here are D >   two of the postings, with what looks to be the original and what, >   looks to be a reposting from within your > ) >         ...news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp  > C >   environment.  The doubles are all referencing home.ne.jp in the F >   headers.  This may well be affecting other newsgroups, too, though5 >   I have not checked groups other than comp.os.vms.  > / >   Thanks for taking the time to look at this,  >   Stephen Hoffman    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Oct 2005 07:39:10 -0700 * From: "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net>, Subject: Re: Double-postings via home.ne.jp?C Message-ID: <1128609550.683793.324740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>    Hoff Hoffman wrote: F > FWIW, I have forwarded the following along to abuse@home.ne.jp, withE >   an example of the doubled news postings that have been appearing.   G I did that as well. Maybe your from address will wake them up. I got an D automated reply back saying my complaint was being dealt with but no other response so far.    I >   Please ignore the second posting of this message -- it wasn't me. :-)  > P >  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------M >     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq P >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------G >         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com  >  >  > 	--  > 
 >   Hello, > D >   Something within your news feed is apparently reposting messagesE >   back out -- there are doubles of messages being posted.  Here are D >   two of the postings, with what looks to be the original and what, >   looks to be a reposting from within your > ) >         ...news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp  > C >   environment.  The doubles are all referencing home.ne.jp in the F >   headers.  This may well be affecting other newsgroups, too, though5 >   I have not checked groups other than comp.os.vms.  > / >   Thanks for taking the time to look at this,  >   Stephen Hoffman    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 15:21:22 GMT * From: "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net>, Subject: Re: Double-postings via home.ne.jp?< Message-ID: <Shb1f.805$R62.494@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>   Hoff Hoffman wrote: F > FWIW, I have forwarded the following along to abuse@home.ne.jp, withE >   an example of the doubled news postings that have been appearing.   G I did that as well. Maybe your from address will wake them up. I got an D automated reply back saying my complaint was being dealt with but no other response so far.    I >   Please ignore the second posting of this message -- it wasn't me. :-)  > P >  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------M >     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq P >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------G >         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com  >  >  > 	--  > 
 >   Hello, > D >   Something within your news feed is apparently reposting messagesE >   back out -- there are doubles of messages being posted.  Here are D >   two of the postings, with what looks to be the original and what, >   looks to be a reposting from within your > ) >         ...news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp  > C >   environment.  The doubles are all referencing home.ne.jp in the F >   headers.  This may well be affecting other newsgroups, too, though5 >   I have not checked groups other than comp.os.vms.  > / >   Thanks for taking the time to look at this,  >   Stephen Hoffman    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 15:21:28 GMT * From: "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net>, Subject: Re: Double-postings via home.ne.jp?< Message-ID: <Yhb1f.807$R62.309@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>   Hoff Hoffman wrote: F > FWIW, I have forwarded the following along to abuse@home.ne.jp, withE >   an example of the doubled news postings that have been appearing.   G I did that as well. Maybe your from address will wake them up. I got an D automated reply back saying my complaint was being dealt with but no other response so far.    I >   Please ignore the second posting of this message -- it wasn't me. :-)  > P >  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------M >     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq P >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------G >         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com  >  >  > 	--  > 
 >   Hello, > D >   Something within your news feed is apparently reposting messagesE >   back out -- there are doubles of messages being posted.  Here are D >   two of the postings, with what looks to be the original and what, >   looks to be a reposting from within your > ) >         ...news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp  > C >   environment.  The doubles are all referencing home.ne.jp in the F >   headers.  This may well be affecting other newsgroups, too, though5 >   I have not checked groups other than comp.os.vms.  > / >   Thanks for taking the time to look at this,  >   Stephen Hoffman    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 15:21:42 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon), Subject: Re: Double-postings via home.ne.jp?< Message-ID: <aib1f.811$R62.510@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>  C In article <1128609550.683793.324740@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, - 	"Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net> writes:  >  > Hoff Hoffman wrote: G >> FWIW, I have forwarded the following along to abuse@home.ne.jp, with F >>   an example of the doubled news postings that have been appearing. > I > I did that as well. Maybe your from address will wake them up. I got an F > automated reply back saying my complaint was being dealt with but no > other response so far. >  >   5 Yeah, that really worked.  This one had three copies.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 6 Oct 2005 16:29:19 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon), Subject: Re: Double-postings via home.ne.jp?+ Message-ID: <3ql1mvFfdv8iU1@individual.net>   < In article <Yhb1f.807$R62.309@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>,- 	"Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net> writes:  >  > Hoff Hoffman wrote: G >> FWIW, I have forwarded the following along to abuse@home.ne.jp, with F >>   an example of the doubled news postings that have been appearing. > I > I did that as well. Maybe your from address will wake them up. I got an F > automated reply back saying my complaint was being dealt with but no > other response so far. >  >   9 Between Google and the Japs we're up to six copies!!  :-)    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 17:21:36 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon), Subject: Re: Double-postings via home.ne.jp?< Message-ID: <A2d1f.813$R62.692@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>  < In article <Yhb1f.807$R62.309@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>,- 	"Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net> writes:  >  > Hoff Hoffman wrote: G >> FWIW, I have forwarded the following along to abuse@home.ne.jp, with F >>   an example of the doubled news postings that have been appearing. > I > I did that as well. Maybe your from address will wake them up. I got an F > automated reply back saying my complaint was being dealt with but no > other response so far. >  >   9 Between Google and the Japs we're up to six copies!!  :-)    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 6 Oct 2005 14:48:12 +0100 K From: pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40)  Subject: Re: Drawlib not loaded ! Message-ID: <M4wlHq9iWIbT@sinead>   ] In article <1128538586.141682.78750@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, jordan@ccs4vms.com writes: G > So essentially, all 3D support on pre EV6 systems is dropped once you G > upgrade to V8.2, plus a subset of graphics cards will stop working at  > all. > I > Sorry to gripe but that is disappointing, and it will mean at least one E > downgrade on my home systems (ZLXp-L1 to ZLXp-E2 in order to retain H > graphics) and the dropping of our only work 3D capable system (a PWS).E > When Display Postscript went away there was a legal requirement for G > that to happen.  I suppose this cut falls under 'business reasons'...   7 VMS is no more a workstation OS, we must learn that :-(    Patrick  --O =============================================================================== N pmoreau@ath.cena.fr              ______      ___   _          (Patrick MOREAU)4 DSNA/DTI/SDER (ex CENA)         / /   /     / /|  /|J Athis-Mons France              / /___/     / / | / |   __   __   __   __  N BP 205                        / /         / /  |/  |  |  | |__| |__  |__| |  |N 94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX    / /   ::    / /       |  |__| | \  |__  |  | |__|N http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/              http://membres.lycos.fr/pmoreau/O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 13:21:25 GMT K From: pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40)  Subject: Re: Drawlib not loaded < Message-ID: <px91f.792$R62.763@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>  ] In article <1128538586.141682.78750@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, jordan@ccs4vms.com writes: G > So essentially, all 3D support on pre EV6 systems is dropped once you G > upgrade to V8.2, plus a subset of graphics cards will stop working at  > all. > I > Sorry to gripe but that is disappointing, and it will mean at least one E > downgrade on my home systems (ZLXp-L1 to ZLXp-E2 in order to retain H > graphics) and the dropping of our only work 3D capable system (a PWS).E > When Display Postscript went away there was a legal requirement for G > that to happen.  I suppose this cut falls under 'business reasons'...   7 VMS is no more a workstation OS, we must learn that :-(    Patrick  --O =============================================================================== N pmoreau@ath.cena.fr              ______      ___   _          (Patrick MOREAU)4 DSNA/DTI/SDER (ex CENA)         / /   /     / /|  /|J Athis-Mons France              / /___/     / / | / |   __   __   __   __  N BP 205                        / /         / /  |/  |  |  | |__| |__  |__| |  |N 94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX    / /   ::    / /       |  |__| | \  |__  |  | |__|N http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/              http://membres.lycos.fr/pmoreau/O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Oct 2005 07:37:01 -0700 ' From: "syslost" <wm.reynolds@gmail.com> / Subject: Re: How long for a shadow copy over CI C Message-ID: <1128609421.836929.313270@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   A For a full copy, adding a new member to an existing single member 4 shadow, or a really stale member re-joining the set.  A The cluster has 3 nodes and is in a production environment.  It's D banking, so there are online single tranactions, and batch at night., With other users running ad hoc RDB reports.  A We don't let the copies run during the day, and limit the nightly  copies to 2 per node, 6 total.E Write back cache is turned on on the HSJs, nohighwater on the drives.   F Getting the times from operator.log, we're looking at 6 to 7 hours for= only 1 shadow copy.  1 for the whole cluster, not 1 per node.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 15:21:18 GMT ' From: "syslost" <wm.reynolds@gmail.com> / Subject: Re: How long for a shadow copy over CI < Message-ID: <Ohb1f.804$R62.213@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>  A For a full copy, adding a new member to an existing single member 4 shadow, or a really stale member re-joining the set.  A The cluster has 3 nodes and is in a production environment.  It's D banking, so there are online single tranactions, and batch at night., With other users running ad hoc RDB reports.  A We don't let the copies run during the day, and limit the nightly  copies to 2 per node, 6 total.E Write back cache is turned on on the HSJs, nohighwater on the drives.   F Getting the times from operator.log, we're looking at 6 to 7 hours for= only 1 shadow copy.  1 for the whole cluster, not 1 per node.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 10:11:58 +0200  From: S <soterroatyahoodotcom>8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today& Message-ID: <4344dc4e$1@news1.ethz.ch>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:A > Resulting in a loss of business as potential customers learn of B > the dis-satisfaction, thereby justifying not only these cuts but- > future  ones as well.  Typical union logic.   G You mean, you'd recommend to do whatever it takes for the big brother,  H oops I meant big company-mother? Like, swallowing benefit cuts, layoffs H with no reason and such? Even in Japan that kind of employee dedication H is pass. There's a difference in mentality: HP is neither the Army nor 7 God, its decisions CAN be questioned (and usually are).   H And speaking about unions: in my union I get lower costs for the health C insurance (already compensates the union contribution), free legal  I counsel and support (just in case), some money in case of pregnancy (too  D bad I can't benefit), they just negotiated some minimal wages and I G could count some more achievements. True, it's not in the US. Jealous?  C One could say 'yeah but look at your country GDP or whatever it is  E called today' - my answer is I don't give a damn about macroeconomic  C indicators, I care about my family and my status which seems to be  A higher than in the US (statistics say so). The state should work  G primarily for its citizens not its corporations, and it's exactly what  H it does here in Switzerland. And the corporations aren't doing that bad  either.    S    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 09:32:36 -0400) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> 8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today8 Message-ID: <AH91f.3055$R4.475957@news20.bellglobal.com>  0 "Lurker" <nowhere@nothing.com> wrote in message / news:RoM0f.16157$iM2.1328350@news.xtra.co.nz...  >  [...snip...] > H > What about the customers? What about 3rd party people? What about the  > damage. > the strikers are doing to their own economy? >   C It's funny that almost no one raises the same questions when upper  G management decides to down size you and ship your job to a third world   country.  J What happens to your economy when the only person making good money is in M upper management? I can tell you (because I've seen it in Ontario) that when  M the going gets tough, these fat cats get on a plane with their money and fly  8 somewhere better leaving the rest of us to hold the bag.  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 09:45:47 -0400) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> 8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today8 Message-ID: <XT91f.3063$R4.476800@news20.bellglobal.com>  L "S" <soterroatyahoodotcom> wrote in message news:4344dc4e$1@news1.ethz.ch... > Bill Gunshannon wrote:B >> Resulting in a loss of business as potential customers learn ofC >> the dis-satisfaction, thereby justifying not only these cuts but . >> future  ones as well.  Typical union logic. > I > You mean, you'd recommend to do whatever it takes for the big brother,  J > oops I meant big company-mother? Like, swallowing benefit cuts, layoffs M > with no reason and such? Even in Japan that kind of employee dedication is  L > pass. There's a difference in mentality: HP is neither the Army nor God, 4 > its decisions CAN be questioned (and usually are). > I I hope this isn't a slip of the keyboard because I've believed for years  J that "big brother" was "the company" rather than the government. This all M started when I lost my mind back 1987 and accepted a management job. I won't  L bore you with any personal details because much has changed since then (for C the better) and now lower level management actually likes having a  L collective agreement available so that all people are treated in a fair and 
 standard way.   M p.s. I still do the same job as before but with a non-management hat. In the  H mean time lower level managers tried to form a "manager's union" (as is G common in Europe) but due to the labour laws in Ontario, could not get  0 enough votes to begin the union forming process.  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html      ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 12:21:15 GMT - From: John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> # Subject: Re: INFO-VAX gone berserk? < Message-ID: <%E81f.787$R62.172@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>  I On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 10:21:12 GMT, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  wrote:  n >In article <1128484290.e543d66355d5cf35ed1e1cb04880f8ee@teranews>, Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com> writes: >>   >>  E >> On 10/04/2005 22:21:52 sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) wrote:  >>  N >>> I just got about a hundred old postings, including a few "Rejected postingJ >>> to INFO-VAX@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU" messages related to duplicates of my ownD >>> postings.  If this continues, someone might wish to take a look. >>   >>  K >> Yeah, I got a bunch of those duplicates too.  If my last couple of posts N >> hadn't been via an actual newsreader and news server, those would probably  >> have been dupes too.  > = >I got a recent rush of duplicates over the newsgroup itself.   I Some misconfigured news server in Japan is re-injecting articles with new L article ids, by the look of it.  Complaints to abuse@home.ne.jp according to9 the headers.  I've done so, for all the good it might do.    --   Dragon riders are weyr'd!    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 15:28:23 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Y Subject: Re: Intel Itanium is for "Big Iron" (was: Re: Why did VMS users go along with th 2 Message-ID: <rob1f.14052$wD.1217@news.cpqcorp.net>   In article <rdeininger-0510052201530001@user-uinj4v9.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) writes:D :In article <1128552404.152853.323950@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, :bob@instantwhip.com wrote: 8 :>is Intel stating that the itaniums were for "big iron"	 :>users,   : K :You put "big iron" in quotation marks.  Who are you quoting?  Probably not J :Intel, I've never seen them say that about Itanium.  Are you quoting your :own misconceptions?  F   Much like the old microcomputer v. minicomputer v. superminicomputerD   v. supermicrocomputer v. mainframe v. supercomputer debates of oldB   (and I apologize in advance if I've omitted your favorite systemF   categories from this list), this is all debating opinions and shades   of gray and marketeering.     G   Or, in marketing terms, this is standard-issue "product positioning".   H   My current secret rocket-science marketeering decoder formula follows:  D     Itanium == Big Iron == rx1600 == Superdome == OpenVMS != Pentium  I   By current cross-industry marketeering usage, the rx1600 and rx1620 are I   low-end servers within the "big iron" range.  The "Big iron" indicates  E   to me the high-end systems and high-end software, and this includes H   Itanium systems such as the rx1600 and rx1620.  These Intel statementsG   are clearly intended to cross the entire market, and are intended to  H   differentiate the Itanium systems and installations from the so-calledH   "low end" Pentium systems and servers and the associated software, andF   not to differentiate among the various Integrity systems themselves.  I   What we here in OpenVMS Engineering or here in the newsgroup might call E   "big iron" will most certainly continue to be Superdome, rx8620 and K   similar systems.  The biggest of the big iron.  Within the cross-industry I   positioning and marketeering, the whole of the Integrity line is in the    "big iron" range.   J   Eons ago, this would have been the VAXmate and the VAX systems, or otherH   similar product positioning.  This sort of positioning and the ensuingL   discussions are nothing new to anyone that has been following the computerM   market and that also possesses the perspective of history, whether acquired I   through reading through industry history or from the experience gained  I   during the growth of at least a few distinguished-looking gray hairs or G   -- for the more follically-challenged readers among us -- through the J   knowledge gained contemporaneously with the acquisition of a beautifully   bald pate.  :-)   F   But do continue with the discussion around the marketeering and the G   product positioning -- it is quite heartening to learn that folks are G   reading and considering it.  The product positioning and the product  F   marketing has clearly gotten farther than I might have guessed, too.  H   Now if y'all will excuse me, I'm off to look at my I/O packet trace...    --    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 10:35:19 GMT . From: "CWatters" <colin.watters@pandoraBOX.be>? Subject: Re: Layoffs at HP : MH needs your suggestions or ideas : Message-ID: <H571f.14510$WQ3.645192@phobos.telenet-ops.be>  + "Impmon" <impmon@digi.mon> wrote in message 2 news:gjjgj1981832oqnf55nba26lgdcb7fmlcj@4ax.com...: > On 26 Sep 2005 10:58:27 -0700, mark_hpq@yahoo.com wrote: > J > > you have any ideas or suggestions on how Hewlett-Packard can serve you
 > >better, > [snip] > E > They can start serving us by offering ink carts for a lot less than F > $30.  Right now they are $30+ each for most carts and often containsD > so little ink they often only lasts 50 pages or so before they run > out.  9 My 90 series HP cart has managed around 400 pages so far.    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Oct 2005 06:13:31 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 2 Subject: Re: Missed opportunity for VMS marketing.3 Message-ID: <zcryqjsd5QMh@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <4344ABAA.B24A3826@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:I > The ABC (USA) TV series "Lost" features some elaborate cave system with H > some "research" project begun in 1980. It features some computers (oldI > IBM mag drives seen, as well as an APPLE II used as a "console" (and it 4 > is , part of the ploty, something they can't stop) > J > Now, imagine if the VMS folks had gotten their act together and gave theG > ABC producers some VAX 780s and VT100s with requirement that "VMS" be E > mentioned in a context that it has been running without any crashes & > since 1980 and no virus can hack it.  8 You could just as well imagine that the moon were really made of green cheese !  E One must face the fact that Apple is the darling of product placement B opportunities.  Macintosh is widely used by creative types, and is) their choice in many television programs.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 11:21:18 GMT - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 2 Subject: Re: Missed opportunity for VMS marketing.; Message-ID: <OM71f.785$R62.62@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>   \ In article <4344ABAA.B24A3826@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:I > The ABC (USA) TV series "Lost" features some elaborate cave system with H > some "research" project begun in 1980. It features some computers (oldI > IBM mag drives seen, as well as an APPLE II used as a "console" (and it 4 > is , part of the ploty, something they can't stop) > J > Now, imagine if the VMS folks had gotten their act together and gave theG > ABC producers some VAX 780s and VT100s with requirement that "VMS" be E > mentioned in a context that it has been running without any crashes & > since 1980 and no virus can hack it.  8 You could just as well imagine that the moon were really made of green cheese !  E One must face the fact that Apple is the darling of product placement B opportunities.  Macintosh is widely used by creative types, and is) their choice in many television programs.    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Oct 2005 13:34:32 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)2 Subject: Re: Missed opportunity for VMS marketing.+ Message-ID: <3qknf8Ff6jisU1@individual.net>   , In article <4344ABAA.B24A3826@teksavvy.com>,0 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:I > The ABC (USA) TV series "Lost" features some elaborate cave system with H > some "research" project begun in 1980. It features some computers (oldI > IBM mag drives seen, as well as an APPLE II used as a "console" (and it 4 > is , part of the ploty, something they can't stop) > J > Now, imagine if the VMS folks had gotten their act together and gave theG > ABC producers some VAX 780s and VT100s with requirement that "VMS" be E > mentioned in a context that it has been running without any crashes & > since 1980 and no virus can hack it. > G > You would have seen some fancy research cave with DEC gear, and heard  > conversations such as: > E > "This thing runs on VMS and hasn't crashed since it was installed". J > These days, we're used to expecting computers to crash, but VMS doesn't,F > and I have to keep entering those codes every 108 minutes to preventL > xxxxxx from happening". Can't hack in because it has very strong security. >  > I > Now, the next day, you follow up with full page ads in major newspapers  > with something akin to:  > J > "You may have seen VMS featured in LOST yesterday, did you know that VMSE > is still available, is still being developped, has state of the art 2 > clustering, disaster tolerance etc etc etc etc". > J > (eg: they saw "VMS" on the popular TV show, and the next day, the ownersE > of VMS tell them that VMS is for real and available today on modern C > machines, and still based on the high wuality ultra reliable code  > written by mature engineers.)   D Yeah, all the computer experts in the world are going to run to workC for Hollywood.  That's why I caught just enough of another big name H show the other night to watch them use an IP address to track a computerD all the way down to a hotel room.  Identify it as a laptop.  And didC all this with ease.  An especially daunting task as the first octet 3 of the IP Address was 359.  Maybe it was IPv7,  :-)   A Hollywood is worthless for advertising beyond Pepsi and Gatorade.    bill     --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 14:21:34 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)2 Subject: Re: Missed opportunity for VMS marketing.< Message-ID: <Opa1f.798$R62.181@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>  , In article <4344ABAA.B24A3826@teksavvy.com>,0 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:I > The ABC (USA) TV series "Lost" features some elaborate cave system with H > some "research" project begun in 1980. It features some computers (oldI > IBM mag drives seen, as well as an APPLE II used as a "console" (and it 4 > is , part of the ploty, something they can't stop) > J > Now, imagine if the VMS folks had gotten their act together and gave theG > ABC producers some VAX 780s and VT100s with requirement that "VMS" be E > mentioned in a context that it has been running without any crashes & > since 1980 and no virus can hack it. > G > You would have seen some fancy research cave with DEC gear, and heard  > conversations such as: > E > "This thing runs on VMS and hasn't crashed since it was installed". J > These days, we're used to expecting computers to crash, but VMS doesn't,F > and I have to keep entering those codes every 108 minutes to preventL > xxxxxx from happening". Can't hack in because it has very strong security. >  > I > Now, the next day, you follow up with full page ads in major newspapers  > with something akin to:  > J > "You may have seen VMS featured in LOST yesterday, did you know that VMSE > is still available, is still being developped, has state of the art 2 > clustering, disaster tolerance etc etc etc etc". > J > (eg: they saw "VMS" on the popular TV show, and the next day, the ownersE > of VMS tell them that VMS is for real and available today on modern C > machines, and still based on the high wuality ultra reliable code  > written by mature engineers.)   D Yeah, all the computer experts in the world are going to run to workC for Hollywood.  That's why I caught just enough of another big name H show the other night to watch them use an IP address to track a computerD all the way down to a hotel room.  Identify it as a laptop.  And didC all this with ease.  An especially daunting task as the first octet 3 of the IP Address was 359.  Maybe it was IPv7,  :-)   A Hollywood is worthless for advertising beyond Pepsi and Gatorade.    bill     --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 6 Oct 2005 06:47:28 -0700   From: jim.lahman@mittalsteel.com# Subject: MSA Storage Works password B Message-ID: <1128606448.872430.55410@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>  G I'm trying to change the configuration on my MSA storageworks array and G forgot the password.  Is there a way for me to reset it to a default or  even retrieve it?    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 14:21:20 GMT   From: jim.lahman@mittalsteel.com# Subject: MSA Storage Works password < Message-ID: <Apa1f.796$R62.622@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>  G I'm trying to change the configuration on my MSA storageworks array and G forgot the password.  Is there a way for me to reset it to a default or  even retrieve it?    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 07:22:18 -06006 From: "Michael D. Ober" <obermd.@.alum.mit.edu.nospam> Subject: Multi-Threading in DCL - Message-ID: <gy91f.8$VZ5.647@news.uswest.net>   K Is there any way to have a single DCL script run a separate process on each I processor in a system.  If that won't work, how can I trigger an event in  DCL when a batch job completes?    Thanks, 
 Mike Ober.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 09:43:37 -0400, From: "Richard Tomkins" <tomkinsr@istop.com># Subject: Re: Multi-Threading in DCL 9 Message-ID: <1128606375_115235@spool6-east.superfeed.net>   K I read your message as a single Computer system, not a Cluster and that you L want each of say, 4 processors in the single Computer system to run the same DCL Command Procedure.  J Do you want all the DCL Command Procedures to run more or less at the same time?   : If so, why? What are you interested in accomplishing here?  E Can you detail what your requirement is and possibly you'll get amore 0 detailed and well though out response than mine.  A "Michael D. Ober" <obermd.@.alum.mit.edu.nospam> wrote in message ' news:gy91f.8$VZ5.647@news.uswest.net... H > Is there any way to have a single DCL script run a separate process on eachK > processor in a system.  If that won't work, how can I trigger an event in ! > DCL when a batch job completes?  > 	 > Thanks,  > Mike Ober. >  >  >  >       O ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups K ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 07:56:22 -06006 From: "Michael D. Ober" <obermd.@.alum.mit.edu.nospam># Subject: Re: Multi-Threading in DCL . Message-ID: <c2a1f.12$VZ5.947@news.uswest.net>  J Single system - I want a single DCL procedure to run multiple tasks at theF same time and then wait for them to all finish.  I'm trying to improveL performance of our nightly processing jobs which have some parts that can beH run in parallel, but others that require serial operations.  For example  ) $ ! A and B are independent of each other # $ RUN/Notify_When_Done=A_Done A.exe # $ run/Notify_When_Done=B_Done B.exe  $ ! / $ ! C is dependent on the completion of A and B  wait/Until_Done=(A_Done,B_Done)  $ run c.exe  $ exit  H Actually, this would be useful in a clustered environment as well, but I only have a single system.   Mike.   7 "Richard Tomkins" <tomkinsr@istop.com> wrote in message 3 news:1128606375_115235@spool6-east.superfeed.net... I > I read your message as a single Computer system, not a Cluster and that  you I > want each of say, 4 processors in the single Computer system to run the  same > DCL Command Procedure. > L > Do you want all the DCL Command Procedures to run more or less at the same > time?  > < > If so, why? What are you interested in accomplishing here? > G > Can you detail what your requirement is and possibly you'll get amore 2 > detailed and well though out response than mine. > C > "Michael D. Ober" <obermd.@.alum.mit.edu.nospam> wrote in message ) > news:gy91f.8$VZ5.647@news.uswest.net... J > > Is there any way to have a single DCL script run a separate process on > eachJ > > processor in a system.  If that won't work, how can I trigger an event in# > > DCL when a batch job completes?  > >  > > Thanks,  > > Mike Ober. > >  > >  > >  > >  >  >  > F > ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
 News==----J > http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
 NewsgroupsG > ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption  =----  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 14:21:17 GMT , From: "Richard Tomkins" <tomkinsr@istop.com># Subject: Re: Multi-Threading in DCL ; Message-ID: <xpa1f.795$R62.64@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>   K I read your message as a single Computer system, not a Cluster and that you L want each of say, 4 processors in the single Computer system to run the same DCL Command Procedure.  J Do you want all the DCL Command Procedures to run more or less at the same time?   : If so, why? What are you interested in accomplishing here?  E Can you detail what your requirement is and possibly you'll get amore 0 detailed and well though out response than mine.  A "Michael D. Ober" <obermd.@.alum.mit.edu.nospam> wrote in message ' news:gy91f.8$VZ5.647@news.uswest.net... H > Is there any way to have a single DCL script run a separate process on eachK > processor in a system.  If that won't work, how can I trigger an event in ! > DCL when a batch job completes?  > 	 > Thanks,  > Mike Ober. >  >  >  >       O ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups K ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Oct 2005 07:34:52 -0700 * From: "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net># Subject: Re: Multi-Threading in DCL A Message-ID: <1128609292.377729.5770@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>    Michael D. Ober wrote:M > Is there any way to have a single DCL script run a separate process on each K > processor in a system.  If that won't work, how can I trigger an event in ! > DCL when a batch job completes?    $ spawn/nowait @proc1  $ spawn/nowait @proc2 @ ... repeat for processor count. System will schedule them across available processors for you.   F $ help synch for second question will give info on the simplest option  	 > Thanks,  > Mike Ober.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Oct 2005 07:34:47 -0700 * From: "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net># Subject: Re: Multi-Threading in DCL B Message-ID: <1128609287.358723.45820@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   Michael D. Ober wrote:M > Is there any way to have a single DCL script run a separate process on each K > processor in a system.  If that won't work, how can I trigger an event in ! > DCL when a batch job completes?    $ spawn/nowait @proc1  $ spawn/nowait @proc2 @ ... repeat for processor count. System will schedule them across available processors for you.   F $ help synch for second question will give info on the simplest option  	 > Thanks,  > Mike Ober.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 15:21:15 GMT * From: "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net># Subject: Re: Multi-Threading in DCL ; Message-ID: <Lhb1f.803$R62.23@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>    Michael D. Ober wrote:M > Is there any way to have a single DCL script run a separate process on each K > processor in a system.  If that won't work, how can I trigger an event in ! > DCL when a batch job completes?    $ spawn/nowait @proc1  $ spawn/nowait @proc2 A .... repeat for processor count. System will schedule them across  available processors for you.   F $ help synch for second question will give info on the simplest option  	 > Thanks,  > Mike Ober.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 09:25:12 -0700  From: Z <Z@no.spam> # Subject: Re: Multi-Threading in DCL ( Message-ID: <Hdc1f.954$qo6.375@fe07.lga>   Alan Greig wrote:  > $ spawn/nowait @proc1  > $ spawn/nowait @proc2 B > ... repeat for processor count. System will schedule them across > available processors for you.  > H > $ help synch for second question will give info on the simplest option  G The problem with $SYNC is that you've got a lot of potential dead time.   F I prefer using jobwide logical names to signal when jobs are done and  their final status.   E Pass in the logical names on the spawns, then periodically check the  A logicals to tell which jobs have completed and their exit status.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 10:57:07 +02003 From: "Gorazd Kikelj" <gorazd.kikelj@nospam.hp.com> C Subject: Samba 2.2-8 build 20050817 ported to Itanium OpenVMS 8.2-1 * Message-ID: <4344e6e5@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  K In midnight hack I ported samba 2.2.8 build 20050817 to itanium on OpenVMS  K 8.2-1. As my knowledge in C is very limited, I just replicated all __alpha  M to __ia64 and compile. So now I have two sets of ifdefs. Clumsy, I know, but  	 it works.   3 As I can tell, all functions I try till now, works.   
 Best, Gorazd     ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 09:21:28 GMT 3 From: "Gorazd Kikelj" <gorazd.kikelj@nospam.hp.com> C Subject: Samba 2.2-8 build 20050817 ported to Itanium OpenVMS 8.2-1 < Message-ID: <s061f.776$R62.619@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>  K In midnight hack I ported samba 2.2.8 build 20050817 to itanium on OpenVMS  K 8.2-1. As my knowledge in C is very limited, I just replicated all __alpha  M to __ia64 and compile. So now I have two sets of ifdefs. Clumsy, I know, but  	 it works.   3 As I can tell, all functions I try till now, works.   
 Best, Gorazd     ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 07:39:23 -0500( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>G Subject: Re: Samba 2.2-8 build 20050817 ported to Itanium OpenVMS 8.2-1 B Message-ID: <1128602365.e7232738af94a998e79d16eac5320a8c@teranews>  K On 10/06/2005 04:21:28 "Gorazd Kikelj" <gorazd.kikelj@nospam.hp.com> wrote:   L > In midnight hack I ported samba 2.2.8 build 20050817 to itanium on OpenVMSE > 8.2-1.  As my knowledge in C is very limited, I just replicated all L > __alpha to __ia64 and compile.  So now I have two sets of ifdefs.  Clumsy, > I know, but it works.   5 > As I can tell, all functions I try till now, works.     N Yes, but now *only* on itanium.  Your version probably will not work on alpha.  M The preferred way to do this is to change "#ifdef __alpha" to "#ifndef __vax" ) and "#ifndef __alpha" to "#ifdef __vax".    K Since alpha and itanium tend to be alike, this makes the source work on all  *three* architectures.  # But thanks for doing the port.  :-)    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 13:21:11 GMT ( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>G Subject: Re: Samba 2.2-8 build 20050817 ported to Itanium OpenVMS 8.2-1 < Message-ID: <bx91f.789$R62.778@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>  K On 10/06/2005 04:21:28 "Gorazd Kikelj" <gorazd.kikelj@nospam.hp.com> wrote:   L > In midnight hack I ported samba 2.2.8 build 20050817 to itanium on OpenVMSE > 8.2-1.  As my knowledge in C is very limited, I just replicated all L > __alpha to __ia64 and compile.  So now I have two sets of ifdefs.  Clumsy, > I know, but it works.   5 > As I can tell, all functions I try till now, works.     N Yes, but now *only* on itanium.  Your version probably will not work on alpha.  M The preferred way to do this is to change "#ifdef __alpha" to "#ifndef __vax" ) and "#ifndef __alpha" to "#ifdef __vax".    K Since alpha and itanium tend to be alike, this makes the source work on all  *three* architectures.  # But thanks for doing the port.  :-)    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 07:23:08 -06006 From: "Michael D. Ober" <obermd.@.alum.mit.edu.nospam>G Subject: Re: Samba 2.2-8 build 20050817 ported to Itanium OpenVMS 8.2-1 - Message-ID: <2z91f.9$VZ5.847@news.uswest.net>   ) But it's a first step to a complete port.   
 Mike Ober.  5 "Wayne Sewell" <wayne@tachysoft.com> wrote in message 6 news:bx91f.789$R62.778@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp... >  > F > On 10/06/2005 04:21:28 "Gorazd Kikelj" <gorazd.kikelj@nospam.hp.com> wrote: > F > > In midnight hack I ported samba 2.2.8 build 20050817 to itanium on OpenVMS G > > 8.2-1.  As my knowledge in C is very limited, I just replicated all E > > __alpha to __ia64 and compile.  So now I have two sets of ifdefs.  Clumsy,  > > I know, but it works.  > 7 > > As I can tell, all functions I try till now, works.  >  > I > Yes, but now *only* on itanium.  Your version probably will not work on  alpha. > H > The preferred way to do this is to change "#ifdef __alpha" to "#ifndef __vax"* > and "#ifndef __alpha" to "#ifdef __vax". > I > Since alpha and itanium tend to be alike, this makes the source work on  all  > *three* architectures. > % > But thanks for doing the port.  :-)  >  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 09:03:59 -0500( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>G Subject: Re: Samba 2.2-8 build 20050817 ported to Itanium OpenVMS 8.2-1 B Message-ID: <1128607440.516cdcf7521a3756b65b2cfc21910dd1@teranews>  @ On 10/06/2005 08:21:11 Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com> wrote:  F > On 10/06/2005 04:21:28 "Gorazd Kikelj" <gorazd.kikelj@nospam.hp.com> > wrote:  E >> In midnight hack I ported samba 2.2.8 build 20050817 to itanium on J >> OpenVMS 8.2-1.  As my knowledge in C is very limited, I just replicatedI >> all __alpha to __ia64 and compile.  So now I have two sets of ifdefs.    >> Clumsy, I know, but it works.  6 >> As I can tell, all functions I try till now, works.  I > Yes, but now *only* on itanium.  Your version probably will not work on  > alpha.  H > The preferred way to do this is to change "#ifdef __alpha" to "#ifndef1 > __vax" and "#ifndef __alpha" to "#ifdef __vax".   I > Since alpha and itanium tend to be alike, this makes the source work on  > all *three* architectures.  % > But thanks for doing the port.  :-)   E Oh, I didn't read the original post carefully.  Missed the part about J *replicating* the code.  So you have both itan and alpha ifdefs containingD duplicate code.  Disregard my comment about it not working on alpha.  M However, my suggestion still stands.  If you have a single chunk of code used O by both architectures, you don't have to worry about making sure future changes % are made to the two duplicate chunks.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 14:11:01 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORGG Subject: Re: Samba 2.2-8 build 20050817 ported to Itanium OpenVMS 8.2-1 0 Message-ID: <00A4ADE6.B7583ACF@SendSpamHere.ORG>  m In article <1128607440.516cdcf7521a3756b65b2cfc21910dd1@teranews>, Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com> writes:  >  > A >On 10/06/2005 08:21:11 Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com> wrote:  > G >> On 10/06/2005 04:21:28 "Gorazd Kikelj" <gorazd.kikelj@nospam.hp.com> 	 >> wrote:  > F >>> In midnight hack I ported samba 2.2.8 build 20050817 to itanium onK >>> OpenVMS 8.2-1.  As my knowledge in C is very limited, I just replicated J >>> all __alpha to __ia64 and compile.  So now I have two sets of ifdefs. ! >>> Clumsy, I know, but it works.  > 7 >>> As I can tell, all functions I try till now, works.  > J >> Yes, but now *only* on itanium.  Your version probably will not work on	 >> alpha.  > I >> The preferred way to do this is to change "#ifdef __alpha" to "#ifndef 2 >> __vax" and "#ifndef __alpha" to "#ifdef __vax". > J >> Since alpha and itanium tend to be alike, this makes the source work on >> all *three* architectures.  > & >> But thanks for doing the port.  :-) > F >Oh, I didn't read the original post carefully.  Missed the part aboutK >*replicating* the code.  So you have both itan and alpha ifdefs containing E >duplicate code.  Disregard my comment about it not working on alpha.  > N >However, my suggestion still stands.  If you have a single chunk of code usedP >by both architectures, you don't have to worry about making sure future changes& >are made to the two duplicate chunks.  M Until the Itanium fizzles and then we're faced with doing this all over again 4 for yet another new be-all end-all of architectures. --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 14:21:13 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORGG Subject: Re: Samba 2.2-8 build 20050817 ported to Itanium OpenVMS 8.2-1 < Message-ID: <tpa1f.794$R62.122@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>  m In article <1128607440.516cdcf7521a3756b65b2cfc21910dd1@teranews>, Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com> writes:  >  > A >On 10/06/2005 08:21:11 Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com> wrote:  > G >> On 10/06/2005 04:21:28 "Gorazd Kikelj" <gorazd.kikelj@nospam.hp.com> 	 >> wrote:  > F >>> In midnight hack I ported samba 2.2.8 build 20050817 to itanium onK >>> OpenVMS 8.2-1.  As my knowledge in C is very limited, I just replicated J >>> all __alpha to __ia64 and compile.  So now I have two sets of ifdefs. ! >>> Clumsy, I know, but it works.  > 7 >>> As I can tell, all functions I try till now, works.  > J >> Yes, but now *only* on itanium.  Your version probably will not work on	 >> alpha.  > I >> The preferred way to do this is to change "#ifdef __alpha" to "#ifndef 2 >> __vax" and "#ifndef __alpha" to "#ifdef __vax". > J >> Since alpha and itanium tend to be alike, this makes the source work on >> all *three* architectures.  > & >> But thanks for doing the port.  :-) > F >Oh, I didn't read the original post carefully.  Missed the part aboutK >*replicating* the code.  So you have both itan and alpha ifdefs containing E >duplicate code.  Disregard my comment about it not working on alpha.  > N >However, my suggestion still stands.  If you have a single chunk of code usedP >by both architectures, you don't have to worry about making sure future changes& >are made to the two duplicate chunks.  M Until the Itanium fizzles and then we're faced with doing this all over again 4 for yet another new be-all end-all of architectures. --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 14:21:23 GMT ( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>G Subject: Re: Samba 2.2-8 build 20050817 ported to Itanium OpenVMS 8.2-1 < Message-ID: <Dpa1f.797$R62.154@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>  @ On 10/06/2005 08:21:11 Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com> wrote:  F > On 10/06/2005 04:21:28 "Gorazd Kikelj" <gorazd.kikelj@nospam.hp.com> > wrote:  E >> In midnight hack I ported samba 2.2.8 build 20050817 to itanium on J >> OpenVMS 8.2-1.  As my knowledge in C is very limited, I just replicatedI >> all __alpha to __ia64 and compile.  So now I have two sets of ifdefs.    >> Clumsy, I know, but it works.  6 >> As I can tell, all functions I try till now, works.  I > Yes, but now *only* on itanium.  Your version probably will not work on  > alpha.  H > The preferred way to do this is to change "#ifdef __alpha" to "#ifndef1 > __vax" and "#ifndef __alpha" to "#ifdef __vax".   I > Since alpha and itanium tend to be alike, this makes the source work on  > all *three* architectures.  % > But thanks for doing the port.  :-)   E Oh, I didn't read the original post carefully.  Missed the part about J *replicating* the code.  So you have both itan and alpha ifdefs containingD duplicate code.  Disregard my comment about it not working on alpha.  M However, my suggestion still stands.  If you have a single chunk of code used O by both architectures, you don't have to worry about making sure future changes % are made to the two duplicate chunks.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 04:07:32 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net># Subject: Re: Time to produce EV79s! G Message-ID: <1fCdnQY2c-LYRtnenZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com>    Main, Kerry wrote:   ...   @   my vote would be to invest in the OS and getting more ISV's onI > board. Spending another 2-3 years on another HW port instead just seems ) > to be a really tough thing to justify.    G What a coincidence:  that's exactly why the port *to* Itanic away from  F an already excellent platform was such a mistake.  Unfortunately, the F more Itanic continues to wallow, the less effective an argument it is B against correcting that earlier mistake by jumping ship to a more H seaworthy vessel (not that HP seems to give a damn what happens to VMS, C so I'm expecting neither another port nor much in the way of other  
 development).    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 10:52:24 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> # Subject: Re: Time to produce EV79s! 0 Message-ID: <11kae5drn6ltu89@corp.supernews.com>   Main, Kerry wrote:  G > For most Cust business exec's, what chip their applications run on is F > likely somewhere near #123 on their list of things they worry about.   I totally agree.  H Now, where on that list would most customers place the issue of whether F or not they have a chip on which to run their applications?  Yeah, it G exists now, but will it continue to do so, and will HP have any say in   whether it continues to exist?   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 09:17:13 -0400) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> 5 Subject: Re: What is holding up linux on wall street? 8 Message-ID: <at91f.3053$R4.474705@news20.bellglobal.com>  3 >"Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote in message 7 >news:qpJ0f.671$R62.574@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp...  [...snip...]A >Imho, while Windows certainly does have its challenges (I am not H >defending in any way) wrt to security, viruses, ad-ware, trojans etc, I@ >would not put Linux to much higher on any pedestal. It also hasG >challenges e.g. 238 *security* (not maint) patches released by Red Hat % >since Jan 2005 i.e. this year alone.  >  >Reference: H >https://www.redhat.com/archives/enterprise-watch-list/ (click on thread+ >for each month and count them up yourself)  > G >The real scary scenario is I wonder how many Linux devotees were aware ) >that all these security patches existed?  > @ >And again, while the roll-out and reboot times can certainly beH >expensive, the real challenge is the time and efforts $'s of QA/Testing6 >these patches before they are rolled into production. > C >HP supports both Windows and Linux platforms, but one does need to , >recognize the challenges of both platforms. >  >Regards >  >Kerry Main  > J Kerry, I agree with everything you've said except the point where LINUX isJ not much better than Windows. LINUX/UNIX is mush better than Windows. LikeJ OpenVMS, LINUX was not designed to execute data which is the basis of mostH of most of Windows virus problems. I saw a honey-pot (hacker) spec a fewJ years ago which stating the average amount of time to break into a WindowsK system was 4 minutes while the average amount of time to break into a LINUX G system was 3 months. (we all know that no one was able to break into an G OpenVMS system at DEFCON9). When you see LINUX running on a laptop with J Open-Office, screen savers, games (ugh), and then learn that the owner hasH never installed any anti-adware or anti-virus software you really sit upE take and take notice. (for more info check out the recent book titled J "Moving To Linux Second Edition: Kiss The Blue Screen Of Death Goodbye!" )  H Problems in big companies (like my employer's) start when a new group ofK university grads come into the company with UNIX/LINUX skills; these people K influence every decision that is made and upper management doesn't know any H better. One of the more popular factoids these people tell management isK that IBM contributes more code to the LINUX movement every year than anyone J else; (we all know that IBM uses LINUX to sell IBM hardware and later usesL stealth marketing to sell their AS400 software but this factoid doesn't seemL to have the ability to replicate itself in daily conversation like the firstL one. I can tell you that more than a few heads were turned when people heardH that our OpenVMS was running Apache. For those people who asked, we toldJ them that we received the software from HP but basically it worked throughJ the UNIX portability API built into OpenVMS. There are even some people inL our company who think that OpenVMS is another flavour of UNIX (which to themH must mean not-Windows) so that is why I suggested marketing OpenVMS as a% platform to do UNIX better than UNIX.   
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 10:59:49 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> ? Subject: Re: Why did VMS users go along with the itanium farce? 0 Message-ID: <11kaeje3iit4dd8@corp.supernews.com>   Robert Deininger wrote: E > In article <1128552404.152853.323950@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,  > bob@instantwhip.com wrote: >  > * >>no, are they cheaper than ds10l's yet??? >  > I > Yes, Itaniums are cheaper than DS10L's were, when DS10L's were for sale K > new.  Your milage may vary in the used market.  I wouldn't surprise me if D > you can buy used DS10L systems cheaper than new Integrity systems. >  >  > 5 >>I am waiting to see all of these $2,000 itaniums we  >>were promised would appear   >  > K > I don't recall seeing any such promise.  I heard predictions for a couple I > of years that VMS Itanium systems would be substantially less expensive I > than comparable Alpha systems.  And that has come to pass.  But I never C > heard of a $2000 system being planned, or announced, or promised.   ! Ok, time for a 'cheap' shot.  :-)   1 I believe that curly mentioned $1000 VMS systems.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 15:21:39 GMT ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> ? Subject: Re: Why did VMS users go along with the itanium farce? < Message-ID: <7ib1f.810$R62.135@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>   Robert Deininger wrote: E > In article <1128552404.152853.323950@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,  > bob@instantwhip.com wrote: >  > * >>no, are they cheaper than ds10l's yet??? >  > I > Yes, Itaniums are cheaper than DS10L's were, when DS10L's were for sale K > new.  Your milage may vary in the used market.  I wouldn't surprise me if D > you can buy used DS10L systems cheaper than new Integrity systems. >  >  > 5 >>I am waiting to see all of these $2,000 itaniums we  >>were promised would appear   >  > K > I don't recall seeing any such promise.  I heard predictions for a couple I > of years that VMS Itanium systems would be substantially less expensive I > than comparable Alpha systems.  And that has come to pass.  But I never C > heard of a $2000 system being planned, or announced, or promised.   ! Ok, time for a 'cheap' shot.  :-)   1 I believe that curly mentioned $1000 VMS systems.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 15:59:22 GMT 6 From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAM.spyderbyte.com>? Subject: Re: Why did VMS users go along with the itanium farce? = Message-ID: <uRb1f.91231$SL.2270308@twister.southeast.rr.com>   5 "Dave Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message  * news:11k90l93g9t9m6b@corp.supernews.com... > Kenneth Farmer wrote: * >> <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message @ >> news:1127997942.208024.216130@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... >>D >>>We all read about all these big vms users so excited that vms wasC >>>moving to an "industry standard" platform ... they all knew that D >>>itanium wasn't even close to alpha and never will be according toI >>>DEC engineering reports, but they persisted in their idiocy regardless  >>>... why?  >>> C >>>And more importantly, know that they see itanium as the farce it 6 >>>is, why are they not demanding alpha startup again? >> >> Bob,  >> >> Are you using any Itaniums? >>J >> I arun two of them. They work just a well for me as the Alphas I have. K >> Might not be as fast, I don't know, but they have been just as reliably.  > C > It's not an issue of fast, or reliable.  It's an issue of future  M > availability.  The stories keep coming, and each one paints a picture less   > favorable than the last. > M > If VMS users were still able to get Alpha, or even VAX systems, they would  M > have the idea that DEC/Compaq/HP would continue to producr systems as long  G > as there were buyers.  The owners of VMS would have CONTROL over the  8 > future availability of CPUs.  That's not the case now. > + >> I wonder how many of you Itanium whiners  > M > As Bill points out elsewhere, that's a pretty cheap shot.  Someone doesn't  3 > agree with you, they're automatically a 'whiner'?  > ' > What's your definition of a 'whiner'?     , Ok, I probably shouldn't have used "whiner."    L > Was I a whiner 3 years ago when I predicted that AMD's HAMMER would force J > Intel to defend their x86 turf?  If saying something and time proves it H > correct is whining, just what is the statements of those who time has 2 > shown to be in error?  What should we call them? > E >> are actually using one.  My guess is very few if any.  Of all the  J >> people/companies I know using them I haven't heard one complaint...not  >> one!  > L > No, I'm not using an itanic.  I have no current needs for one.  If I did, D > I would have no problems with using one.  Assuming they are still F > available.  They're available today, and I hope they continue to be G > available, since the future of VMS currently depends upon them to be  F > available.  But, if I had to bet the farm, based upon current Intel  > actions, no way!       Ken   % _____________________________________  Kenneth Farmer <>< 336-736-7376 3 www.OpenVMS.org | dba.OpenVMS.org | dcl.OpenVMS.org  HP OpenVMS News and Info   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.558 ************************