1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 07 Oct 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 559       Contents: Re: "Get off the Itanic" Re: "Get off the Itanic" Re: "Get off the Itanic" Re: can't dismount ? Re: can't dismount ? Re: can't dismount ? Re: can't dismount ? Re: can't dismount ?) Re: DISCONNECT a process other than mine? ) Re: DISCONNECT a process other than mine? - easy way to convert PCL to postscript on vms? - easy way to convert PCL to postscript on vms? & Re: How long for a shadow copy over CI& Re: How long for a shadow copy over CI& Re: How long for a shadow copy over CI& Re: How long for a shadow copy over CI& Re: How long for a shadow copy over CI& Re: How long for a shadow copy over CI/ Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today  Re: HP's strategy explained :  Re: HP's strategy explained : P Re: Intel Itanium is for "Big Iron" (was: Re: Why did VMS users go along with thP Re: Intel Itanium is for "Big Iron" (was: Re: Why did VMS users go along with thP Re: Intel Itanium is for "Big Iron" (was: Re: Why did VMS users go along with th) Re: Missed opportunity for VMS marketing. ) Re: Missed opportunity for VMS marketing.  Re: Multi-Threading in DCL Re: Multi-Threading in DCL Re: Multiple X servers?  Re: Multiple X servers? > Re: Samba 2.2-8 build 20050817 ported to Itanium OpenVMS 8.2-1 Re: Time to produce EV79s!, Re: What is holding up linux on wall street?, Re: What is holding up linux on wall street?, Re: What is holding up linux on wall street?6 Re: Why did VMS users go along with the itanium farce?6 Re: Why did VMS users go along with the itanium farce?1 Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ? 1 Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ? 1 Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ? 1 Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ? 1 Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 18:44:45 GMT , From: "warren sander" <warren.sander@hp.com>! Subject: Re: "Get off the Itanic" 2 Message-ID: <xge1f.14086$hQ.2836@news.cpqcorp.net>  K if you configure the systems then you will see that over 50% of the cost is  the memory. L maybe 16GB is a bit much for an rx1620 system. and yes the sun systems had a
 lot of memory  also.   . "Dan Allen" <dallen@nist.gov> wrote in message6 news:5qa1f.801$R62.211@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp... >  >  > > -----Original Message-----= > > From: David J Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@comcast.net] . > > Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 10:21 PM > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com % > > Subject: Re: "Get off the Itanic"  > >  > >  > > "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote:  > > > J > > > Just got this from Sun Microsystems.  It's worth a small grin; we've6 > > > been saying this all along; now we have company! > > > : > > > http://www.sun.com/emrkt/itanic/index.html?cid=46376 > > L > > If nothing else, it underscores that Sun's marketing folks stride boldly: > > forth to where OpenVMS marketing folks dare not tread. > >  > L > To me it screams FUD and underscores a very real concern on Sun's part.... >  > > Shameful...  >  > I'd say tasteless  >  >  > Dan  >  >    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Oct 2005 13:40:46 -0700 - From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> ! Subject: Re: "Get off the Itanic" B Message-ID: <1128631246.358630.32320@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   Alan Greig wrote:  > Schroeder, AJ wrote:O > >> That would imply that there actually *is* an OpenVMS marketing department. M > > If there is, then whatever they are getting paid is way over compensation  > > for the work they do.  > H > In the year or so leading up to the Alphacide, Rich Marcello seemed toG > have some success in getting VMS advertised. Sales were picking up. I G > have no idea why that stopped. At least I haven't seen any VMS ads in % > UK trade computer press since then.  > -- > Alan Greig  B Well, let's see. If they sell someone on OpenVMS high-end; they'veC announced that Alpha is dead; the Itanic isn't ready yet to replace ( Alpha; OH-MY-GAWD! What do we tell them?  )  1. Buy the dead-ended over-priced Alpha. 4      a. The software you buy won't run on the Itanic/         when you need to upgrade/migrate so you #         might have to buy it again.   -  2. Wait for the industry standard Itanic[1]. 2      b. The software you need isn't Itanisized yet"         and might never be anyway.  @ Conclusion: We'd better not try too hard to sell OpenVMS because& someone might actually want to buy it.   [1] E %DCL-W-IVQUAL, unrecognized qualifier - check validity, spelling, and 	 placement   \industry standard\   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 21:21:08 GMT - From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> ! Subject: Re: "Get off the Itanic" < Message-ID: <8zg1f.821$R62.625@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>   Alan Greig wrote:  > Schroeder, AJ wrote:O > >> That would imply that there actually *is* an OpenVMS marketing department. M > > If there is, then whatever they are getting paid is way over compensation  > > for the work they do.  > H > In the year or so leading up to the Alphacide, Rich Marcello seemed toG > have some success in getting VMS advertised. Sales were picking up. I G > have no idea why that stopped. At least I haven't seen any VMS ads in % > UK trade computer press since then.  > -- > Alan Greig  B Well, let's see. If they sell someone on OpenVMS high-end; they'veC announced that Alpha is dead; the Itanic isn't ready yet to replace ( Alpha; OH-MY-GAWD! What do we tell them?  )  1. Buy the dead-ended over-priced Alpha. 4      a. The software you buy won't run on the Itanic/         when you need to upgrade/migrate so you #         might have to buy it again.   -  2. Wait for the industry standard Itanic[1]. 2      b. The software you need isn't Itanisized yet"         and might never be anyway.  @ Conclusion: We'd better not try too hard to sell OpenVMS because& someone might actually want to buy it.   [1] E %DCL-W-IVQUAL, unrecognized qualifier - check validity, spelling, and 	 placement   \industry standard\   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 20:59:30 +0000 (UTC). From: klewis@LUMINA.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis) Subject: Re: can't dismount ? . Message-ID: <di437i$e9u$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann) writes in article <di3i7k$sq8$1@news.BelWue.DE> dated Thu, 6 Oct 2005 16:09:24 +0000 (UTC):h >In article <di3h77$q6o$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>, Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> writes: >>$ dism disk$www 2 >>%DISM-W-CANNOTDMT, DISK$WWW cannot be dismounted1 >>%DISM-W-INSTIMAGE, 7 images installed on volume  >>+ >>This (ODS2) disk used to hold osu_server. 8 >>I've deleted (& uninstalled) all the installed images.. >>$ sho dev/fil shows nothing (except indexf).. >>$ ins lis/fu/glo shows nothing on this disk.+ >>There are no printers or spooled devices.  >>1 >>How can I find/clear these 'installed images' ?  >>Alpha VMS 7.3-1  > A >Is the disk part of a cluster and mounted on some other node(s)?   L It doesn't matter.  He's not doing DISMOUNT/CLUSTER, and even if he was, theC error message is different when the open files are on another node.    $ dism /clus $2$DKA0: > %DISM-W-RMTDSMFAIL, _$2$DKA0: failed to dismount on node OMEGA7 -DISM-W-FILESOPEN, volume has files open on remote node 0 %DISM-W-CANNOTDMT, $2$DKA0: cannot be dismounted  0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 17:08:24 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: can't dismount ? Q Message-ID: <OF835796D2.7B087B7B-ON85257092.00740507-85257092.00742020@metso.com>   K Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> wrote on 10/06/2005 11:52:07 AM:    > $ dism disk$www 2 > %DISM-W-CANNOTDMT, DISK$WWW cannot be dismounted1 > %DISM-W-INSTIMAGE, 7 images installed on volume  > + > This (ODS2) disk used to hold osu_server. 8 > I've deleted (& uninstalled) all the installed images.. > $ sho dev/fil shows nothing (except indexf).. > $ ins lis/fu/glo shows nothing on this disk.+ > There are no printers or spooled devices.  > 1 > How can I find/clear these 'installed images' ?  > Alpha VMS 7.3-1  > $ FWIW, does INSTALL LIST/GLOBAL help?  , and does DISMOUNT/ABORT work (probably not).   > Thanks > Chris    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 21:21:25 GMT  From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: can't dismount ? < Message-ID: <pzg1f.826$R62.230@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>  K Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> wrote on 10/06/2005 11:52:07 AM:    > $ dism disk$www 2 > %DISM-W-CANNOTDMT, DISK$WWW cannot be dismounted1 > %DISM-W-INSTIMAGE, 7 images installed on volume  > + > This (ODS2) disk used to hold osu_server. 8 > I've deleted (& uninstalled) all the installed images.. > $ sho dev/fil shows nothing (except indexf).. > $ ins lis/fu/glo shows nothing on this disk.+ > There are no printers or spooled devices.  > 1 > How can I find/clear these 'installed images' ?  > Alpha VMS 7.3-1  > $ FWIW, does INSTALL LIST/GLOBAL help?  , and does DISMOUNT/ABORT work (probably not).   > Thanks > Chris    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 19:22:34 -0400, From: "Richard Tomkins" <tomkinsr@istop.com> Subject: Re: can't dismount ? 9 Message-ID: <1128641111_118213@spool6-east.superfeed.net>    $show device $2$dka0: /files  & Is dka0 the quorum disk by any chance?        ; "Keith A. Lewis" <klewis@LUMINA.MITRE.ORG> wrote in message ( news:di437i$e9u$1@newslocal.mitre.org...J > gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann) writes in articleI <di3i7k$sq8$1@news.BelWue.DE> dated Thu, 6 Oct 2005 16:09:24 +0000 (UTC): E > >In article <di3h77$q6o$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>, Chris Sharman $ <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> writes: > >>$ dism disk$www 4 > >>%DISM-W-CANNOTDMT, DISK$WWW cannot be dismounted3 > >>%DISM-W-INSTIMAGE, 7 images installed on volume  > >>- > >>This (ODS2) disk used to hold osu_server. : > >>I've deleted (& uninstalled) all the installed images.0 > >>$ sho dev/fil shows nothing (except indexf).0 > >>$ ins lis/fu/glo shows nothing on this disk.- > >>There are no printers or spooled devices.  > >>3 > >>How can I find/clear these 'installed images' ?  > >>Alpha VMS 7.3-1  > > C > >Is the disk part of a cluster and mounted on some other node(s)?  > J > It doesn't matter.  He's not doing DISMOUNT/CLUSTER, and even if he was, the E > error message is different when the open files are on another node.  >  > $ dism /clus $2$DKA0: @ > %DISM-W-RMTDSMFAIL, _$2$DKA0: failed to dismount on node OMEGA9 > -DISM-W-FILESOPEN, volume has files open on remote node 2 > %DISM-W-CANNOTDMT, $2$DKA0: cannot be dismounted > 2 > --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org@ > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.      O ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups K ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 00:21:14 GMT , From: "Richard Tomkins" <tomkinsr@istop.com> Subject: Re: can't dismount ? < Message-ID: <_bj1f.834$R62.212@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>   $show device $2$dka0: /files  & Is dka0 the quorum disk by any chance?        ; "Keith A. Lewis" <klewis@LUMINA.MITRE.ORG> wrote in message ( news:di437i$e9u$1@newslocal.mitre.org...J > gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann) writes in articleI <di3i7k$sq8$1@news.BelWue.DE> dated Thu, 6 Oct 2005 16:09:24 +0000 (UTC): E > >In article <di3h77$q6o$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>, Chris Sharman $ <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> writes: > >>$ dism disk$www 4 > >>%DISM-W-CANNOTDMT, DISK$WWW cannot be dismounted3 > >>%DISM-W-INSTIMAGE, 7 images installed on volume  > >>- > >>This (ODS2) disk used to hold osu_server. : > >>I've deleted (& uninstalled) all the installed images.0 > >>$ sho dev/fil shows nothing (except indexf).0 > >>$ ins lis/fu/glo shows nothing on this disk.- > >>There are no printers or spooled devices.  > >>3 > >>How can I find/clear these 'installed images' ?  > >>Alpha VMS 7.3-1  > > C > >Is the disk part of a cluster and mounted on some other node(s)?  > J > It doesn't matter.  He's not doing DISMOUNT/CLUSTER, and even if he was, the E > error message is different when the open files are on another node.  >  > $ dism /clus $2$DKA0: @ > %DISM-W-RMTDSMFAIL, _$2$DKA0: failed to dismount on node OMEGA9 > -DISM-W-FILESOPEN, volume has files open on remote node 2 > %DISM-W-CANNOTDMT, $2$DKA0: cannot be dismounted > 2 > --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org@ > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.      O ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups K ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 16:52:02 -0400* From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca>2 Subject: Re: DISCONNECT a process other than mine?0 Message-ID: <11kb3jkt8gjnp63@corp.supernews.com>  K "John Malmberg" <malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hp> a crit dans le message 0 de news:SsE_e.13408$DN1.7198@news.cpqcorp.net...  J > The Telnet sessions seem to notice that a connection is broken when theyI > have characters send to the now non-existent connection, and are unable 1 > to complete the sending in some timeout period.  > I > Causing a broadcast message to go to the hung terminal session seems to > > eventually work on Encompasserve to speed the process along. > D > Since I do not have any privileges on that machine, I use Phone to" > generate the broadcast messages. >  > -John # > malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hp  > Personal Opinion Only  >    Hi   It happened to me again...L My VPN connection dropped and I lost all my PowerTerm sessions. And they did$ not fall into "disconnected" status.  @ So I logged on a new session, did a REPLY/USER=SYLTREM SOMETHINGK and it worked! All my sessions got disconnected, and I was able to get back  into each of them.   Thanks for the trick, John ! Syltrem    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 01:03:04 +0200. From: "Gorazd Kikelj" <gorazd.kikelj@siol.net>2 Subject: Re: DISCONNECT a process other than mine?/ Message-ID: <J2i1f.634$h6.188771@news.siol.net>   5 "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca> wrote in message 6 news:lzg1f.825$R62.462@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp...   > It happened to me again...J > My VPN connection dropped and I lost all my PowerTerm sessions. And they did & > not fall into "disconnected" status. > B > So I logged on a new session, did a REPLY/USER=SYLTREM SOMETHINGH > and it worked! All my sessions got disconnected, and I was able to get back > into each of them. >   H If you enable keepalive on tcpip, then sessions will ged disconnected as0 packets are send regulary on keepalive interval.   Best, Gorazd   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Oct 2005 14:04:16 -0700  From: bob@instantwhip.com 6 Subject: easy way to convert PCL to postscript on vms?B Message-ID: <1128632656.033796.81210@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  
 any ideas?   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 21:21:18 GMT  From: bob@instantwhip.com 6 Subject: easy way to convert PCL to postscript on vms?: Message-ID: <izg1f.824$R62.8@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>  
 any ideas?   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Oct 2005 11:57:13 -0700 ( From: "denny" <denny_rich@ameritech.net>/ Subject: Re: How long for a shadow copy over CI C Message-ID: <1128625033.367611.221350@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>   / That is not out of the question...6 to 7 hours.   E We used to split shadow sets to do backup on a CI cluster of 7 nodes. C Same problem with night processing.  Reconstituting those save sets D took as much as 6 hours. If they were still copying at 8am, we would5 dismount the target - but that meant losing a backup.   F However, the performance hit was stupendous if the copies were allowed to continue.  E Move to LVD SCSI and fibre-connected drives.  WOW. (i know that isn't 9 an option for all, but it sure made a difference for us.)    regards    denny    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 19:30:57 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>/ Subject: Re: How long for a shadow copy over CI + Message-ID: <4345C1C1.665BC7C6@comcast.net>    syslost wrote: > C > For a full copy, adding a new member to an existing single member 6 > shadow, or a really stale member re-joining the set. > C > The cluster has 3 nodes and is in a production environment.  It's F > banking, so there are online single tranactions, and batch at night.. > With other users running ad hoc RDB reports. > C > We don't let the copies run during the day, and limit the nightly   > copies to 2 per node, 6 total.G > Write back cache is turned on on the HSJs, nohighwater on the drives.  > H > Getting the times from operator.log, we're looking at 6 to 7 hours for? > only 1 shadow copy.  1 for the whole cluster, not 1 per node.   ? Hhmmm... a pity that you're probably "married" to V6.2 for VAX.   A There's a feature available in later versions called "mini-copy".   A ...although, I recall a site I had back in 2001 as an out-sourced = SysAdmin where mini-copy was actually working with HSJ50s and E OpenVMS-VAX V6.2 (I believe HSJ pair held the write bitmaps and other " structures to enable the feature).  > Anyone have details on that? Required firmware versions, ECOs,  parameters to activate and such?   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 19:33:54 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>/ Subject: Re: How long for a shadow copy over CI + Message-ID: <4345C271.1E5D349A@comcast.net>    denny wrote: > 1 > That is not out of the question...6 to 7 hours.  > G > We used to split shadow sets to do backup on a CI cluster of 7 nodes. E > Same problem with night processing.  Reconstituting those save sets F > took as much as 6 hours. If they were still copying at 8am, we would7 > dismount the target - but that meant losing a backup.  > H > However, the performance hit was stupendous if the copies were allowed > to continue. > G > Move to LVD SCSI and fibre-connected drives.  WOW. (i know that isn't ; > an option for all, but it sure made a difference for us.)   G For sure, and newer VMS with host-based mini-copy and mini-merge help a  *LOT*!  D That said, how do you feel about "unsupported" tricks? It's possibleH (recommendable is another question) to mirror within an array (HSx pair)H and control that from the host, though the methods of communicating withH the controller pair are unsupported anymore, though they still work to a fair degree.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 01:21:40 GMT 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>/ Subject: Re: How long for a shadow copy over CI < Message-ID: <E4k1f.840$R62.431@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>   denny wrote: > 1 > That is not out of the question...6 to 7 hours.  > G > We used to split shadow sets to do backup on a CI cluster of 7 nodes. E > Same problem with night processing.  Reconstituting those save sets F > took as much as 6 hours. If they were still copying at 8am, we would7 > dismount the target - but that meant losing a backup.  > H > However, the performance hit was stupendous if the copies were allowed > to continue. > G > Move to LVD SCSI and fibre-connected drives.  WOW. (i know that isn't ; > an option for all, but it sure made a difference for us.)   G For sure, and newer VMS with host-based mini-copy and mini-merge help a  *LOT*!  D That said, how do you feel about "unsupported" tricks? It's possibleH (recommendable is another question) to mirror within an array (HSx pair)H and control that from the host, though the methods of communicating withH the controller pair are unsupported anymore, though they still work to a fair degree.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 01:21:37 GMT 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>/ Subject: Re: How long for a shadow copy over CI < Message-ID: <B4k1f.839$R62.562@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>   syslost wrote: > C > For a full copy, adding a new member to an existing single member 6 > shadow, or a really stale member re-joining the set. > C > The cluster has 3 nodes and is in a production environment.  It's F > banking, so there are online single tranactions, and batch at night.. > With other users running ad hoc RDB reports. > C > We don't let the copies run during the day, and limit the nightly   > copies to 2 per node, 6 total.G > Write back cache is turned on on the HSJs, nohighwater on the drives.  > H > Getting the times from operator.log, we're looking at 6 to 7 hours for? > only 1 shadow copy.  1 for the whole cluster, not 1 per node.   ? Hhmmm... a pity that you're probably "married" to V6.2 for VAX.   A There's a feature available in later versions called "mini-copy".   B ....although, I recall a site I had back in 2001 as an out-sourced= SysAdmin where mini-copy was actually working with HSJ50s and E OpenVMS-VAX V6.2 (I believe HSJ pair held the write bitmaps and other " structures to enable the feature).  > Anyone have details on that? Required firmware versions, ECOs,  parameters to activate and such?   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Oct 2005 21:24:15 -0500 / From: brooks@cuebid.zko.dec.nospam (Rob Brooks) / Subject: Re: How long for a shadow copy over CI - Message-ID: <i8ZrIhE$vo3m@cuebid.zko.dec.com>   4 David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: > syslost wrote: >>  I >> Getting the times from operator.log, we're looking at 6 to 7 hours for @ >> only 1 shadow copy.  1 for the whole cluster, not 1 per node. > A > Hhmmm... a pity that you're probably "married" to V6.2 for VAX.  > C > There's a feature available in later versions called "mini-copy".  > C > ...although, I recall a site I had back in 2001 as an out-sourced ? > SysAdmin where mini-copy was actually working with HSJ50s and G > OpenVMS-VAX V6.2 (I believe HSJ pair held the write bitmaps and other $ > structures to enable the feature).  I Minicopy is not controller-dependent; it'll work with any storage, as all K the work is done by VMS.  The "write bitmap" subsystem (first developed for 6 minicopy) is also used by Host-Based Minimerge (HBMM).  G A VAX-only cluster, however, cannot use minicopy, as OpenVMS VAX cannot H "master" a bitmap.  VAXes can, though, have their writes registered on a' bitmap "mastered" by an Alpha (or I64).   K Minicopy first appeared on V7.3 (both VAX and Alpha), and was backported to  V7.2-2.    --    M Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- I/O Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.dec.com    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Oct 2005 11:36:03 -0700  From: mark_hpq@yahoo.com8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march todayC Message-ID: <1128623763.578076.180910@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    to lower customer satisfaction.  > A > Resulting in a loss of business as potential customers learn of B > the dis-satisfaction, thereby justifying not only these cuts but- > future  ones as well.  Typical union logic.  >     @ Which dissatisfaction ? Customers support the HP employees fight
 against these  short-sighted layoffs.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 19:21:38 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>& Subject: Re: HP's strategy explained :+ Message-ID: <4345BF92.A542D5A2@comcast.net>    Rich wrote:  >  >  1.  Cut jobs. > 2.  Save money.  > 3.  Shore up stock price.    4. Go out of business    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 01:21:08 GMT 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>& Subject: Re: HP's strategy explained :< Message-ID: <84k1f.835$R62.341@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>   Rich wrote:  >  >  1.  Cut jobs. > 2.  Save money.  > 3.  Shore up stock price.    4. Go out of business    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Oct 2005 20:09:05 -0700  From: bob@instantwhip.com Y Subject: Re: Intel Itanium is for "Big Iron" (was: Re: Why did VMS users go along with th C Message-ID: <1128654545.389864.137910@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   F I put big iron in quotes because I read an article interviewing intels> new boss and he stated that word for word ... that itanium was? being made for big iron, no workstations, no 1P boxes, no sales < to small and medium firms that don't need a superdome to runE small 2-4 user offices ... that was on one of the major IT news sites  straight from the horses mouth!    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 22:06:11 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> Y Subject: Re: Intel Itanium is for "Big Iron" (was: Re: Why did VMS users go along with th , Message-ID: <4345D80A.29DB92C9@teksavvy.com>   Hoff Hoffman wrote: J >   My current secret rocket-science marketeering decoder formula follows: > F >     Itanium == Big Iron == rx1600 == Superdome == OpenVMS != Pentium  G Just because there are low end "big iron" servers (rx1600) doesn't mean ' that this is a target market for IA64.      @ You need a low end version of big iron machines in order to alowG developpers, test systems, evaluation systems etc. It doesn't mean that C they are key and will get heavy marketing. It just means that those  boxes are "available".    C Will HP advertise HP-UX RX1600 against Dell-Windows solutions ? No.   G Because IA64 is targetted only at a very narrow market, it prevents VMS ? from reclaiming customers in lower and mid range markets. Those A customers aren't going to go to an anemic operating systems (VMS) H running on a platform whose niche has repeatedly been narrowed and whichH no longer includes the server space that the customer is in (even though boxes are available).   E And when VMS fans are staying away from IA64, it also should tell you G that you'll have an even harder time convinving customers to go to that  IA64 thing.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 02:21:27 GMT - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> Y Subject: Re: Intel Itanium is for "Big Iron" (was: Re: Why did VMS users go along with th < Message-ID: <HYk1f.843$R62.267@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>   Hoff Hoffman wrote: J >   My current secret rocket-science marketeering decoder formula follows: > F >     Itanium == Big Iron == rx1600 == Superdome == OpenVMS != Pentium  G Just because there are low end "big iron" servers (rx1600) doesn't mean ' that this is a target market for IA64.      @ You need a low end version of big iron machines in order to alowG developpers, test systems, evaluation systems etc. It doesn't mean that C they are key and will get heavy marketing. It just means that those  boxes are "available".    C Will HP advertise HP-UX RX1600 against Dell-Windows solutions ? No.   G Because IA64 is targetted only at a very narrow market, it prevents VMS ? from reclaiming customers in lower and mid range markets. Those A customers aren't going to go to an anemic operating systems (VMS) H running on a platform whose niche has repeatedly been narrowed and whichH no longer includes the server space that the customer is in (even though boxes are available).   E And when VMS fans are staying away from IA64, it also should tell you G that you'll have an even harder time convinving customers to go to that  IA64 thing.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 21:43:42 -0400 . From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>2 Subject: Re: Missed opportunity for VMS marketing., Message-ID: <4345D2C6.584A8828@teksavvy.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:   C > Hollywood is worthless for advertising beyond Pepsi and Gatorade.    WRONG.  B Hollywood works with product placement. If fact, recent James BondG movies have had production costs covered entirely by product placement. > And corporatiosn bid to get their products shown in the movie.  B Had VMS management gone to hollywood and offered to pay to get VMS5 exposure in that show, they would have considered it.   C To give you an idea of how far this is going now. One vodka company H approached the writers/producres of "Sex in the city" for a concept. OneF lady meets a young hunk and hangs out with him for many many episodes.@ It culminates when (in the plot) he is offered a model job for aG billboard. When the billboard comes out, she brings him to times square E and he then sees his billboard. (he is naked with bottle of the vodka B strategically placed).  The billboard was real and went up in many> places timed with the original broadcast date of that episode.  G This was something which was instigated by the advertising firm and the D vodka firm  (eg: they pushed the idea to the show, as opposed to the" show seeking them as advertisers).  = Advertising needs imagination, it needs to be very proactive.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 02:21:21 GMT . From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>2 Subject: Re: Missed opportunity for VMS marketing.< Message-ID: <BYk1f.842$R62.647@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:   C > Hollywood is worthless for advertising beyond Pepsi and Gatorade.    WRONG.  B Hollywood works with product placement. If fact, recent James BondG movies have had production costs covered entirely by product placement. > And corporatiosn bid to get their products shown in the movie.  B Had VMS management gone to hollywood and offered to pay to get VMS5 exposure in that show, they would have considered it.   C To give you an idea of how far this is going now. One vodka company H approached the writers/producres of "Sex in the city" for a concept. OneF lady meets a young hunk and hangs out with him for many many episodes.@ It culminates when (in the plot) he is offered a model job for aG billboard. When the billboard comes out, she brings him to times square E and he then sees his billboard. (he is naked with bottle of the vodka B strategically placed).  The billboard was real and went up in many> places timed with the original broadcast date of that episode.  G This was something which was instigated by the advertising firm and the D vodka firm  (eg: they pushed the idea to the show, as opposed to the" show seeking them as advertisers).  = Advertising needs imagination, it needs to be very proactive.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 11:56:00 -06006 From: "Michael D. Ober" <obermd.@.alum.mit.edu.nospam># Subject: Re: Multi-Threading in DCL . Message-ID: <Syd1f.19$qA2.351@news.uswest.net>  K Thanks to all who answered.  Downtime in this script waiting for other jobs H to finish isn't an issue.  Currently the script runs these jobs one at aI time, so the worst case is the same as current, best case is the speed of  the fastest concurrent job.    Mike.   A "Michael D. Ober" <obermd.@.alum.mit.edu.nospam> wrote in message ( news:c2a1f.12$VZ5.947@news.uswest.net...L > Single system - I want a single DCL procedure to run multiple tasks at theH > same time and then wait for them to all finish.  I'm trying to improveK > performance of our nightly processing jobs which have some parts that can  beJ > run in parallel, but others that require serial operations.  For example > + > $ ! A and B are independent of each other % > $ RUN/Notify_When_Done=A_Done A.exe % > $ run/Notify_When_Done=B_Done B.exe  > $ ! 1 > $ ! C is dependent on the completion of A and B ! > wait/Until_Done=(A_Done,B_Done) 
 > $ run c.exe  > $ exit > J > Actually, this would be useful in a clustered environment as well, but I > only have a single system. >  > Mike.  > 9 > "Richard Tomkins" <tomkinsr@istop.com> wrote in message 5 > news:1128606375_115235@spool6-east.superfeed.net... K > > I read your message as a single Computer system, not a Cluster and that  > you K > > want each of say, 4 processors in the single Computer system to run the  > same > > DCL Command Procedure. > > I > > Do you want all the DCL Command Procedures to run more or less at the  same	 > > time?  > > > > > If so, why? What are you interested in accomplishing here? > > I > > Can you detail what your requirement is and possibly you'll get amore 4 > > detailed and well though out response than mine. > > E > > "Michael D. Ober" <obermd.@.alum.mit.edu.nospam> wrote in message + > > news:gy91f.8$VZ5.647@news.uswest.net... L > > > Is there any way to have a single DCL script run a separate process on > > eachL > > > processor in a system.  If that won't work, how can I trigger an event > in% > > > DCL when a batch job completes?  > > > 
 > > > Thanks,  > > > Mike Ober. > > >  > > >  > > >  > > >  > >  > >  > > H > > ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet > News==----L > > http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ > NewsgroupsI > > ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption  > =----  > >  >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 20:21:10 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net># Subject: Re: Multi-Threading in DCL + Message-ID: <4345CD86.9405494C@comcast.net>    "Michael D. Ober" wrote: > M > Is there any way to have a single DCL script run a separate process on each K > processor in a system.  If that won't work, how can I trigger an event in ! > DCL when a batch job completes?  > 	 > Thanks,  > Mike Ober.  = Might your site consider some kind of scheduler that supports  inter-dependencies?    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Oct 2005 13:47:40 -0700 ) From: "Joe Sewell" <ultrajoe@spamcop.net>   Subject: Re: Multiple X servers?C Message-ID: <1128631660.218375.242950@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>     stuie_norris@yahoo.com.au wrote: > Hi Joe Sewell  > D > What is the model number of the 5-port belkin PCI USB card you areE > using on your DS10?  Do any of the other single or dual port boards  > work?  > C > What devices do they appear as under VMS and what version are you  > using? >  > I am using a DS10L.  >  > Thanks >  > Stuart  . I think it's FredK you want to direct that at.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 21:21:11 GMT ) From: "Joe Sewell" <ultrajoe@spamcop.net>   Subject: Re: Multiple X servers?< Message-ID: <bzg1f.822$R62.513@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>    stuie_norris@yahoo.com.au wrote: > Hi Joe Sewell  > D > What is the model number of the 5-port belkin PCI USB card you areE > using on your DS10?  Do any of the other single or dual port boards  > work?  > C > What devices do they appear as under VMS and what version are you  > using? >  > I am using a DS10L.  >  > Thanks >  > Stuart  . I think it's FredK you want to direct that at.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 20:44:56 +0200. From: "Gorazd Kikelj" <gorazd.kikelj@siol.net>G Subject: Re: Samba 2.2-8 build 20050817 ported to Itanium OpenVMS 8.2-1 / Message-ID: <Hge1f.629$h6.187820@news.siol.net>   5 "Wayne Sewell" <wayne@tachysoft.com> wrote in message < news:1128602365.e7232738af94a998e79d16eac5320a8c@teranews... > H > The preferred way to do this is to change "#ifdef __alpha" to "#ifndef __vax"* > and "#ifndef __alpha" to "#ifdef __vax". > I > Since alpha and itanium tend to be alike, this makes the source work on  all  > *three* architectures. > % > But thanks for doing the port.  :-)   F As this are OpenVMS specific changes on common sources, this will haveL inpact on other platforms, so I don't think that this will suffice. If I canJ define, that I'm on OpenVMS (I'm sure that I can), then #ifndef __VAX willH work ok). I'll look at it in following days (as I say, my C knowledge is
 very much 0).    Best, Gorazd   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 22:08:55 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> # Subject: Re: Time to produce EV79s! , Message-ID: <4345D8AD.BB664E6A@teksavvy.com>   Dave Froble wrote: >  > Main, Kerry wrote: > I > > For most Cust business exec's, what chip their applications run on is H > > likely somewhere near #123 on their list of things they worry about. >  > I totally agree.   I disagree.   G Take Linux or Windows for instance. Most software is available on 8086. E Only a small subset of Windows apps are available on that IA64 thing.   ( Software availability is very important.  F And if a piece of software exists on Alpha-VMS but not IA64-VMS, guess9 where the customer will go when HP stops selling Alphas ?    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Oct 2005 14:01:00 -0700  From: bob@instantwhip.com 5 Subject: Re: What is holding up linux on wall street? C Message-ID: <1128632399.138673.135270@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   C you could put these new people on a unix shell (gnv) and they would = never notice the difference except the absence of patches ...    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 19:24:11 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>5 Subject: Re: What is holding up linux on wall street? + Message-ID: <4345C02A.134C1779@comcast.net>    bob@instantwhip.com wrote: > E > you could put these new people on a unix shell (gnv) and they would ? > never notice the difference except the absence of patches ...   H Well, you'd also you have to change the initial prompt from "Username: " to "login: "...   ) ...and somehow change CTRL+Z to CTRL+D...    ...and a few other cosmetics...    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 01:21:30 GMT 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>5 Subject: Re: What is holding up linux on wall street? < Message-ID: <u4k1f.837$R62.611@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>   bob@instantwhip.com wrote: > E > you could put these new people on a unix shell (gnv) and they would ? > never notice the difference except the absence of patches ...   H Well, you'd also you have to change the initial prompt from "Username: " to "login: "...   * ....and somehow change CTRL+Z to CTRL+D...    ....and a few other cosmetics...   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 23:26:54 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ? Subject: Re: Why did VMS users go along with the itanium farce? , Message-ID: <4345EAEF.8CC73D84@teksavvy.com>   Robert Deininger wrote: H > I can't talk about future systems that are in the works; if you have aK > need for such information, please contact OpenVMS product management, and  > be prepared to sign an NDA.     H If VMS were available on the 8086, we wouldn't need to sign NDAs and getE lawyers involved to ensure that should HP change the roadmap at will, F we'd be compensated. Why ? Because we know that HP depends on the 8086F for its survival and we know that it will produce a full range of 8086I machines and would never artificially limit the 8086 into certan niches.    E Do you ever doubt that Dell will produce servers using the latest and  greatest 8086 technology ?, Do you doubt that HP would not follow Dell ?  G But for IA64, one needs NDAs to get some sort of speech telling us that H HP will continue to make IA64 based machines in a certain range of size.   That says a lot.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 04:21:18 GMT - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ? Subject: Re: Why did VMS users go along with the itanium farce? < Message-ID: <2Jm1f.847$R62.577@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>   Robert Deininger wrote: H > I can't talk about future systems that are in the works; if you have aK > need for such information, please contact OpenVMS product management, and  > be prepared to sign an NDA.     H If VMS were available on the 8086, we wouldn't need to sign NDAs and getE lawyers involved to ensure that should HP change the roadmap at will, F we'd be compensated. Why ? Because we know that HP depends on the 8086F for its survival and we know that it will produce a full range of 8086I machines and would never artificially limit the 8086 into certan niches.    E Do you ever doubt that Dell will produce servers using the latest and  greatest 8086 technology ?, Do you doubt that HP would not follow Dell ?  G But for IA64, one needs NDAs to get some sort of speech telling us that H HP will continue to make IA64 based machines in a certain range of size.   That says a lot.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 05:05:30 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com : Subject: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?- Message-ID: <8764sacq5h.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   % hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:   A >   Do contact Gaitan, as he most definitely tracks the products, A >   options and trends here -- both Microsoft-based and Sun-based  >   technologies.   E I trust a move to Open Doc formats is now at the head of the priority  list? It had better be.    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 22:21:13 GMT  From: prep@prep.synonet.com : Subject: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?< Message-ID: <trh1f.828$R62.324@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>  % hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:   A >   Do contact Gaitan, as he most definitely tracks the products, A >   options and trends here -- both Microsoft-based and Sun-based  >   technologies.   E I trust a move to Open Doc formats is now at the head of the priority  list? It had better be.    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Oct 2005 22:41:40 GMT  From: healyzh@aracnet.com : Subject: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?+ Message-ID: <di49740nhq@enews1.newsguy.com>   & Main, Kerry <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote:E > Instead, OpenVMS is focussing on improved J2EE and .Net integration  > technologies.   9 I don't suppose that ".Net integration" might include C#?    		Zane   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 19:25:49 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>: Subject: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?+ Message-ID: <4345C08C.4A73EFDF@comcast.net>    healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > ( > Main, Kerry <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote:G > > Instead, OpenVMS is focussing on improved J2EE and .Net integration  > > technologies.  > ; > I don't suppose that ".Net integration" might include C#?   G ...and since many folks hold that Micro$lop rule sthe roost, I guess if  you don't C# you'll be flat...   *FLATULATE*    (Excuse me!)   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 01:21:33 GMT 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>: Subject: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?< Message-ID: <x4k1f.838$R62.699@news-virt.s-kddi1.home.ne.jp>   healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > ( > Main, Kerry <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote:G > > Instead, OpenVMS is focussing on improved J2EE and .Net integration  > > technologies.  > ; > I don't suppose that ".Net integration" might include C#?   H ....and since many folks hold that Micro$lop rule sthe roost, I guess if you don't C# you'll be flat...   *FLATULATE*    (Excuse me!)   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.559 ************************                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            @@@@@@@                @@@                     @@         B    2 2@@@@@@@                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    