1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 11 Oct 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 567       Contents:8 Re: ALL printers are electronic thieves (Was just Epson)8 Re: ALL printers are electronic thieves (Was just Epson)8 Re: ALL printers are electronic thieves (Was just Epson)8 Re: ALL printers are electronic thieves (Was just Epson)8 Re: ALL printers are electronic thieves (Was just Epson)8 Re: ALL printers are electronic thieves (Was just Epson) Re: can't dismount ? Re: can't dismount ?* Re: Epson printers are electronic theieves* Re: Epson printers are electronic theieves* Re: Firmware update on an AlphaStation 255< fork [Was Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?]@ Re: fork [Was Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?]C Re: fork() (Was: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?) C Re: fork() (Was: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?) H Re: fork() (Was: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?) ?)?)H Re: fork() (Was: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?) ?)?)? Re: fork() (Was: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?) / Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today # Re: Intel Itanium is for "Big Iron" # Re: Intel Itanium is for "Big Iron" # Re: Intel Itanium is for "Big Iron" P Re: Intel Itanium is for "Big Iron" (was: Re: Why did VMS users go along with thP Re: Intel Itanium is for "Big Iron" (was: Re: Why did VMS users go along with thP Re: Intel Itanium is for "Big Iron" (was: Re: Why did VMS users go along with th Migrating from Multinet to UCX" Re: Migrating from Multinet to UCX" Re: Migrating from Multinet to UCX" Re: Migrating from Multinet to UCX) Re: Missed opportunity for VMS marketing. ) Re: Missed opportunity for VMS marketing. * new syntax for certain file specificationsP Re: ODS-5 directory and header definitions, where? Was: [OT] - dealing with ;327P Re: ODS-5 directory and header definitions, where? Was: [OT] - dealing with ;327P Re: ODS-5 directory and header definitions, where? Was: [OT] - dealing with ;327P Re: ODS-5 directory and header definitions, where? Was: [OT] - dealing with ;327P Re: ODS-5 directory and header definitions, where? Was: [OT] - dealing with ;327P Re: ODS-5 directory and header definitions, where? Was: [OT] - dealing with ;327% Re: OPCCRASH.EXE (was: Re: OPC$CRASH) ! Re: Resetting Compaq SANSwitch 16 ) Re: TCPIP V5.4, SMTP & non-existant users ) Re: TCPIP V5.4, SMTP & non-existant users ) Re: TCPIP V5.4, SMTP & non-existant users ) Re: TCPIP V5.4, SMTP & non-existant users ) Re: TCPIP V5.4, SMTP & non-existant users ) Re: TCPIP V5.4, SMTP & non-existant users ) Re: TCPIP V5.4, SMTP & non-existant users ) Re: TCPIP V5.4, SMTP & non-existant users ) Re: TCPIP V5.4, SMTP & non-existant users ) Re: TCPIP V5.4, SMTP & non-existant users & Re: TCPware starts up, then shuts down& Re: TCPware starts up, then shuts down( Re: Thought you would enjoy this posting Re: Vamp Hacked! Re: Vamp Hacked! Re: VMS logo feedback needed Re: VMS logo feedback needed6 Re: Why did VMS users go along with the itanium farce?6 Re: Why did VMS users go along with the itanium farce?6 Re: Why did VMS users go along with the itanium farce?1 Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ? 1 Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ? 1 Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ? 1 Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ? 1 Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ? 1 Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ? 1 Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ? 1 Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ? 1 Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ? 1 RE: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ? 1 Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ? 1 Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ? 1 Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ? 1 Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ? 1 Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ? 1 Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ? 1 Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ? 1 RE: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:35:38 GMT & From: Gary Tait <classicsat@yahoo.com>A Subject: Re: ALL printers are electronic thieves (Was just Epson) ; Message-ID: <Xns96EB8A4E6800Dwonkynillmailnil@142.77.1.194>   I "zakezuke" <zakezuke_us@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1128941147.910356.140130  @z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:  2 > Granted the smallest unit of milk you can buy is > 240ml   J Where I am, anything 500 ml or less is taxed as a snack, greater than 500 - ML is taxed as a staple, even chocolate milk.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:39:19 GMT & From: Gary Tait <classicsat@yahoo.com>A Subject: Re: ALL printers are electronic thieves (Was just Epson) ; Message-ID: <Xns96EB8AEE711A4wonkynillmailnil@142.77.1.194>   @ Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net> wrote in news:BF6F410D.155AA% roktsci@comcast.net:  # > Printer ink             $8,895.72  > E > Calculation based on HP Ink jet cartridge number 58, which contains 9 > 17 ml of black ink at the typical list price of $39.95.  >   I You are forgetting that the HP ink includes a printer head, as well as a  A slightly more complicated container, say as a bottle of soda has. K Most of those other fluids come in more or less just a container (possibly  8 re-used), or stored in your own container (eg gasoline).   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 18:14:41 GMT : From: "George E. Cawthon" <GeorgeC-Boise@worldnet.att.net>A Subject: Re: ALL printers are electronic thieves (Was just Epson) G Message-ID: <lcy2f.128129$qY1.56561@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>    Jeff Cameron wrote: M > In a world where Gasoline prices are rising, but is still less than bottled 5 > water, here are some comparative prices of liquids. " > Items                   $/gallon# > Gasoline                $    3.00 # > Milk                    $    2.99 # > Coca-Cola               $    2.84 # > Gatorade                $    5.20 # > Evian Water             $    5.60 # > Orange Juice            $    6.64 # > Crisco Oil              $    7.44 # > Perrier Water           $    8.16 # > Snapple                 $   10.32 # > Scope Mouthwash         $   27.20 # > Lemon Oil               $   27.22 # > Olive Oil               $   51.04 # > Shampoo                 $   40.44 # > Real Maple Syrup        $   57.08 # > Jack Daniel's Bourbon   $  101.12 # > Visine Eye Drops        $  995.84 # > Nasacort Nasal Spray    $2,615.28 # > Printer ink             $8,895.72  > E > Calculation based on HP Ink jet cartridge number 58, which contains 9 > 17 ml of black ink at the typical list price of $39.95.  > < > All prices are in US dollars, and are subject to change... > Jeff Cameron > @ > Reference: http://www.vpcga.com/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=152 >  >   > On 10/9/05 9:33 AM, in article> > 43494643$0$78282$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk, "Dr. Dweeb"* > <NOSPAM_5msg0h202@sneakemail.com> wrote: >  >  >>Gentlemen, >>N >>I have reached the conclusion that the Epson corporation is both incompetant> >>and corrupt.  Someone should sue their scrawny little asses. >>, >>I have an RX500 - a high end combi-device. >>J >>Today, the reading on my black ink cartridge hit zero, while the other 5 >>read between 23-28% H >>I replaced the black cartridge with a 3rd party product from Gold-Ink. >>I >>After installation the printer informed me that it was loading the ink.  >># >>I decided to print the test page.  >> >>Failure - and worse. >>N >>1: "The ink cartridge is different from Epson blah blah blah" message.  This6 >>will now appear EVERY time I try to print !!!!!!!!!!2 >>2: The device reset all 5 other cartridges to 0%J >>3: The device has the black cartridge now pegged at 83%, despite not yet >>having printed 1 character >>N >>Because the other 5 cartridges now MUST be replaced I still cannot print andK >>I am REALLY pissed off.  Check how much 6 cartridges (even of alternative 4 >>branbd) ink costs - this is an expensive exercise. >>M >>The audacity of these assholes to pull this sort of stunt amazes me.  It is E >>both amoral and illegal.  There is no technical reason for what has D >>happenned to me - it is just punishment for installing a non-Epson9 >>cartridge - something I believe is my commercial right.  >>L >>I mean, how much money do I have to spend on cartridges before I give up ?E >>Is an ERROR message at EVERY print job even marginally apprpriate ?  >>! >>Where do I get my money back ??  >> >>Dr. Dweeb  >> >>   >> >> >  >  > 1 Wonderful, but did deduct the cost of the hitect  3 container (cartridge), without which the ink would  2 be useless?   None of the other liquids come in a 1 high tech container requiring exacting processes  . to manufacture. As an alternative include the ( price of a new car to use the gasoline.)  3 Of course, comparing liquid costs has little to do  2 with anything, did you try to figure out the cost $ of inoculations or liquid medicines?  2 None the less, take water, which costs nothing so , the profit is infinite, or the Visine which & probably cost 50 cents to manufacture.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 18:26:04 GMT : From: "George E. Cawthon" <GeorgeC-Boise@worldnet.att.net>A Subject: Re: ALL printers are electronic thieves (Was just Epson) G Message-ID: <0ny2f.128156$qY1.66797@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>    Gary Tait wrote:K > "zakezuke" <zakezuke_us@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1128941147.910356.140130   > @z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com: >  > 2 >>Granted the smallest unit of milk you can buy is >>240ml  >  > L > Where I am, anything 500 ml or less is taxed as a snack, greater than 500 / > ML is taxed as a staple, even chocolate milk.   / I've heard of that.  It's got to be one of the  1 most outrageous laws devised.  And the stupidest   constituency to put up with it.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:26:00 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> A Subject: Re: ALL printers are electronic thieves (Was just Epson) + Message-ID: <434ADC5F.1E7682E@teksavvy.com>    "George E. Cawthon" wrote:2 > Wonderful, but did deduct the cost of the hitect4 > container (cartridge), without which the ink would > be useless?      This goes both ways.  G Some laser printers allow you to just refill the toner cartridge, while I others expect you to change half the imaging unit including the OPC drum.   G So if HP designs its cartridges so that the print head lasts only for a D few ML of ink and needs to be replaced after that, it is part of the cost for those ML of ink.     D If the print head can actually last more than 17ml of ink,  then theG cartridge is not size properly and the amount of ink in it should match & the true capability of the print head.  F Either way, HP wants to to spend megabucks as often as possible to buyD new expensive cartridges that are made more complex than they really need to be.   G Coke competes against Pepsi, so they have every incentive to make their H bottles as low cost as possible. They aren't about to start puting fancyF electronics and presuisre monitors in those bottles because that would make them uncompetitive.    B Printer manufacturers compete on the initial purchase price of theB printer. They strive to lower those costs to compete, but they allH collude to keep price of ink cartridges high so that they can make theirH money on cartridge in the long term. (not different from razor companiesD when each company hd their own prorietary razor blades, so while theG actual razor was cheap, you were then forced to buy that manufacturer's H razor blades which weren't cheap). Same applies to diabetes test units. F The units are given away free, but you are then forced to buy the test! strips from them for a long time.     G Now, when consumers start to revolt angainst the ink cartridge tactics, H the manufacturers will be forced to come up with more expensive printersA but much cheaper ink systems. And it may result in manufactirersr D seeling printers, print heads and ink separately. (change print head7 once a year, buy new ink often but at much lower cost).   H The fact that photo shops now offer prints much cheaper than what a homeF printer can do is an indication that folsk like HP and EPSON will have1 to revioew their printer philosophies eventually.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:28:54 -0700 ( From: Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net>A Subject: Re: ALL printers are electronic thieves (Was just Epson) 0 Message-ID: <BF704746.157BF%roktsci@comcast.net>  J While the facts are true (based on current retail prices), I only intended< to exhibit the irony rather than foster a reasonable debate. JC      On 10/10/05 11:14 AM, in articleE lcy2f.128129$qY1.56561@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net, "George E. 0 Cawthon" <GeorgeC-Boise@worldnet.att.net> wrote:   > Jeff Cameron wrote: N >> In a world where Gasoline prices are rising, but is still less than bottled6 >> water, here are some comparative prices of liquids.# >> Items                   $/gallon $ >> Gasoline                $    3.00$ >> Milk                    $    2.99$ >> Coca-Cola               $    2.84$ >> Gatorade                $    5.20$ >> Evian Water             $    5.60$ >> Orange Juice            $    6.64$ >> Crisco Oil              $    7.44$ >> Perrier Water           $    8.16$ >> Snapple                 $   10.32$ >> Scope Mouthwash         $   27.20$ >> Lemon Oil               $   27.22$ >> Olive Oil               $   51.04$ >> Shampoo                 $   40.44$ >> Real Maple Syrup        $   57.08$ >> Jack Daniel's Bourbon   $  101.12$ >> Visine Eye Drops        $  995.84$ >> Nasacort Nasal Spray    $2,615.28$ >> Printer ink             $8,895.72 >>  F >> Calculation based on HP Ink jet cartridge number 58, which contains: >> 17 ml of black ink at the typical list price of $39.95. >>  = >> All prices are in US dollars, and are subject to change...  >> Jeff Cameron  >>  A >> Reference: http://www.vpcga.com/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=152  >>   >>  ! >> On 10/9/05 9:33 AM, in article ? >> 43494643$0$78282$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk, "Dr. Dweeb" + >> <NOSPAM_5msg0h202@sneakemail.com> wrote:  >>   >>   >>> Gentlemen, >>> P >>> I have reached the conclusion that the Epson corporation is both incompetant@ >>> and corrupt.  Someone should sue their scrawny little asses. >>> . >>> I have an RX500 - a high end combi-device. >>> L >>> Today, the reading on my black ink cartridge hit zero, while the other 5 >>> read between 23-28% J >>> I replaced the black cartridge with a 3rd party product from Gold-Ink. >>> K >>> After installation the printer informed me that it was loading the ink.  >>> % >>> I decided to print the test page.  >>>  >>> Failure - and worse. >>> P >>> 1: "The ink cartridge is different from Epson blah blah blah" message.  This8 >>> will now appear EVERY time I try to print !!!!!!!!!!4 >>> 2: The device reset all 5 other cartridges to 0%L >>> 3: The device has the black cartridge now pegged at 83%, despite not yet >>> having printed 1 character >>> P >>> Because the other 5 cartridges now MUST be replaced I still cannot print andM >>> I am REALLY pissed off.  Check how much 6 cartridges (even of alternative 6 >>> branbd) ink costs - this is an expensive exercise. >>> O >>> The audacity of these assholes to pull this sort of stunt amazes me.  It is G >>> both amoral and illegal.  There is no technical reason for what has F >>> happenned to me - it is just punishment for installing a non-Epson; >>> cartridge - something I believe is my commercial right.  >>> N >>> I mean, how much money do I have to spend on cartridges before I give up ?G >>> Is an ERROR message at EVERY print job even marginally apprpriate ?  >>> # >>> Where do I get my money back ??  >>> 
 >>> Dr. Dweeb  >>>  >>>  >>>  >>>  >>   >>   >>  2 > Wonderful, but did deduct the cost of the hitect4 > container (cartridge), without which the ink would3 > be useless?   None of the other liquids come in a 2 > high tech container requiring exacting processes/ > to manufacture. As an alternative include the * > price of a new car to use the gasoline.) > 4 > Of course, comparing liquid costs has little to do3 > with anything, did you try to figure out the cost & > of inoculations or liquid medicines? > 3 > None the less, take water, which costs nothing so - > the profit is infinite, or the Visine which ( > probably cost 50 cents to manufacture.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 00:24:36 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com  Subject: Re: can't dismount ? - Message-ID: <87achhz6ez.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   2 Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> writes:  + > The deepest directories on the disk were: 1 > Directory DISK$WWW:[WWW.DOCUMENTS.LIVE.BTN.WHT]  > G > PPK.DIR;1           RAD.DIR;1           WPK.DIR;1           XPK.DIR;1  >  > Total of 4 files.   B > (they were empty, are now deleted, and aren't too deep anyway, IA > think).  Perhaps I should mention that I carelessly deleted the D > installed images from the disk first, and uninstalled them second.  F Ah, that was the other detail of the mess. If you had a deep directoryF structure with no files except at the leaves, you could have directoryD FCBs hanging around with a 0 reference count, but not cleaned up. SoC at dismount time, it was stuck because you had a non-zero number of B FCBs.  You also had no way of getting them to go away that I could find at the time :(    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2005 21:12:04 -02006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: can't dismount ? , Message-ID: <434ad924$1@news.langstoeger.at>  m In article <10OCT05.11031638@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>, karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) writes: I >In a previous article, Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam> wrote:  > M >->I tried "SDA> sho proc/chan all" - that didn't list anything on that disk.  >->  > I >Hmm. Then there are no files open on the disk (if you believe SDA). I've > >had HP working on a similar problem a while back but on 7.3-2D >(3206154671). They chased vcbs and fcbs and found no reason why theH >transaction count didn't match sda and "show dev/files". The conclusionD >was something (kernel software) wasn't decrementing the transactionD >count (sho dev). I'm guessing your trans cnt here is 8 (add one forF >indexf.sys). We all suspected pathworks (you don't run that do you?).H >Perhaps the common thread is OSU, but there's no kernel software there.' >that. Do you use Decnet Phase IV or V?   L I still think that the INSTALL is the problem. He wrote, that he deleted theI images before he actually did deINSTALL them (INSTALL> REMOVE vs DELETE).   F >HP provided an image that will set the transaction count to what everH >you want (i.e. 1) and then the disk can be dismounted. If you reference, >that case number perhaps you can obtain it.  " A new $ SET DEVICE qualifier ? ;-)   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 12:54:51 -0600  From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net> 3 Subject: Re: Epson printers are electronic theieves 9 Message-ID: <1128970364_132367@spool6-east.superfeed.net>    measekite wrote: >  >  > Dr. Dweeb wrote: > 
 >> Gentlemen,  >>D >> I have reached the conclusion that the Epson corporation is both K >> incompetant and corrupt.  Someone should sue their scrawny little asses.  >>- >> I have an RX500 - a high end combi-device.  >>J >> Today, the reading on my black ink cartridge hit zero, while the other  >> 5 read between 23-28%I >> I replaced the black cartridge with a 3rd party product from Gold-Ink.  >>J >> After installation the printer informed me that it was loading the ink. >>$ >> I decided to print the test page. >> >> Failure - and worse.  >>   >>K > THAT SOUNDS GREAT.  YOU SHOULD HAVE USED EPSON OEM INK AND YOU WOULD NOT   > HAVE THE PROBLEM.   @ Why? Because Epson is a money grubbing company that doesn't want to have to compete.    > A >> 1: "The ink cartridge is different from Epson blah blah blah"  F >> message.  This will now appear EVERY time I try to print !!!!!!!!!!3 >> 2: The device reset all 5 other cartridges to 0% H >> 3: The device has the black cartridge now pegged at 83%, despite not ! >> yet having printed 1 character  >>F >> Because the other 5 cartridges now MUST be replaced I still cannot % >> print and I am REALLY pissed off.   > J > IT IS BETTER TO BE PISSED OFF THEN PISSED ON.  YOU GOT PISSED ON BY THE + > AFTERMARKET WHORE YOU BOUGHT THE INK FROM  > H >> Check how much 6 cartridges (even of alternative branbd) ink costs - ! >> this is an expensive exercise.  >>   >>F > BUY A NEW PRINTER ON SALE.  THEY USUALLY COST ABOUT THE SAME AS THE H > INK.  NOW THAT IS TRUE FOR THE PRINTER ONLY.  IF YOU HAD NOT BOUGHT A   ? Note that man printer companies supply "special" ink cartridges 7 with their new inkjet printers, that are only 1/4 full.   5 > MFD THEN YOU WOULD NOT HAVE TO REPLACE THE SCANNER.  > I >> The audacity of these assholes to pull this sort of stunt amazes me.   " >> It is both amoral and illegal.  > J > IF IT WAS ILLEGAL THEY WOULD NOT DO IT.  IMORAL, WELL SO ARE THE WHORES F > THAT SELL AFTERMARKET INK AND WILL NOT TELL YOU WHAT YOU ARE BUYING. >   < i.e. if you bought a sugar pot from C&H, then it is Ok if it& explodes when you put U&I sugar in it.  J >> There is no technical reason for what has happenned to me - it is just I >> punishment for installing a non-Epson cartridge - something I believe   >> is my commercial right. >>I >> I mean, how much money do I have to spend on cartridges before I give   >> up ? F >> Is an ERROR message at EVERY print job even marginally apprpriate ? >>" >> Where do I get my money back ?? >>   >>) > FROM THE WHORE YOU BOUGHT THE INK FROM.  >  >> Dr. Dweeb  O ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups K ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 14:40:53 +0000 (UTC) 1 From: "Shooter" <photoman52003-shoot@yahoo.co.uk> 3 Subject: Re: Epson printers are electronic theieves ? Message-ID: <diduhl$9ko$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>   6 I have a llb, llm and I am. Again I say you are wrong.    8 "Anna Daptor" <Anna@radio.active.co.uk> wrote in message1 news:8bt2f.12180$qR5.6512@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net...  > > > "Shooter" <photoman52003-shoot@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message; > news:didc6r$l26$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com... J > > No you are wrong, I refer to my many posts regarding the the loss of a< > > County Court action I brought against Epson UK and lost. > L > Get yourself a better lawyer. One that knows the law might be a good idea. >  >  > > < > > "Anna Daptor" <Anna@radio.active.co.uk> wrote in message4 > > news:pei2f.15605$4Q.4704@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net... > >>A > >> "Shooter" <photoman52003-shoot@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message > > >> news:dic3tq$ag6$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...G > >> > This discussion now brings up again that Epson will not honour a  > > warrantyD > >> > claim if third party ink is used or can be proved to be used. > >>K > >> Since when? There's *nothing* stopping anybody using 3rd party inks in 	 > > Epson G > >> or any other printer. Epson are just employing scare tactics in an  > >> attemptJ > >> at ensuring their cash cow. Using 3rd party inks has no baring on any > >> warranty claims.  > >> > >> > >> > >> > >  > >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:21:21 -0500 / From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> 3 Subject: Re: Firmware update on an AlphaStation 255 2 Message-ID: <434B1391.2070704@applied-synergy.com>   Mark Round wrote: H > I have an AlphaStation 255 that I'd like to use with OpenVMS, althoughB > it is currently running the AlphaBIOS firmware. From reading theF > various FAQs out there, I have discovered that I need to upgrade theH > firmware and switch to SRM before I can continue. To do this, it wouldA > appear that I need to create a floppy with the firmware on it - I > however, this particular system does not have a floppy drive installed.  > F > Am I right in thinking that I can take any floppy drive from a PC orF > similar box and connect it up and it will work ? Alternativley, someG > documentation seems to indicate that I can place the firmware on a CD E > and update from that. Is there any specific documentation on how to E > acheive this? All I could find on the "Ask the wizard" site was the I > phrase "It is also typically quite easy to acquire the firmware via the I > CD-ROM distribution kit, and use the CD-ROM to switch firmware", but no  > actual detail.  B I have an AS255 which is half flash, which means that you have to / reflash it to switch between AlphaBIOS and SRM.   G If you have full flash, there is a command in the AlphaBIOS menus that   can be used to switch to SRM.   G IIRC, yes, you can use a generic 1.4MB floppy on an AS255.  The floppy  F connector on the AS255 may be wired backwards.  (It was wrong on some G AlphaStations, but I don't remember which ones.)  If you turn power on  E and the floppy activity light stays on, try turning the cable around.   I To flash from the AlphaBIOS, you need a FAT formatted floppy.  The flash  E image must have a particular name. (Perhaps FWUPDATE.EXE?  Check the  ( documentation on the firmware web site.)  G If you have a half-flash machine, by default, the firmware update will  C update the flash for the system you are running.  Thus, the UPDATE  G command will flash your machine with the AlphaBIOS flash, which is not  9 what you want.  You need to use the command "UPDATE SRM".   
 Good luck!   --  G ----------------------------------------------------------------------- $ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  B Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com    Fax: 817-237-3074   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:29:14 -0400 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>E Subject: fork [Was Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?] / Message-ID: <434AA4EA.32324.29C1E2DB@localhost>   $ On 10 Oct 2005 at 20:33, Doc. wrote:H > Those who have been following the issue will have seen answers similarG > to the one Hoff has already posted in this thread.  My "scratching of F > the surface" on this problem has given me the impression that fork()F > was originally a copy to swap and clone the process operation, and IH > can't even begin to imagine the security headaches trying to implement# > that correctly in VMS would give.   B The Unix/Linux "fork" guarantees 16 (if I remember right) things, 1 only a few of which are readily available on VMS.   F Not only is regularly-allocated memory copied, but memory mapped with E "mmap" becomes shared among all fork'd processes.  I know personally  F that the C RTL implementation of "mmap" will have to be changed.  And > that's just one of the dozen or so things that need hammering.  E Not that it can't be done -- it's getting someone at HP to commit to  @ it as a project.  Projects have assigned personnel and delivery  dates...  
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com) "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option"    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2005 17:10:59 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) I Subject: Re: fork [Was Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?] 3 Message-ID: <9gJusm8N1$Vc@eisner.encompasserve.org>   d In article <434AA4EA.32324.29C1E2DB@localhost>, "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com> writes:  D > The Unix/Linux "fork" guarantees 16 (if I remember right) things, 3 > only a few of which are readily available on VMS.  > H > Not only is regularly-allocated memory copied, but memory mapped with G > "mmap" becomes shared among all fork'd processes.  I know personally  H > that the C RTL implementation of "mmap" will have to be changed.  And @ > that's just one of the dozen or so things that need hammering.  F Presumably each item so shared would need to have that sharing audited  at the time of process creation.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:08:12 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) L Subject: Re: fork() (Was: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?)4 Message-ID: <MSz2f.14257$Ha5.10548@news.cpqcorp.net>  u In article <434ab9e8$0$90389$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes:  :Bill Gunshannon wrote: C :> I was under the impression that VMS didn't have a true fork() at C :> all, thus the big problem porting most OpenSource Unix software. C :> In the Windows world, fork(0 has been around dince the MSDOS/MSC  :> days. : . :My impression is that fork is a real Unixism. : + :But if Windows can have a fork I think VMS  :can have a fork.   C   fork and exec replicates the process address space and all of the F   process  data structures, and -- to allow for reasonable performanceA   -- assumes the availability of copy-on-write support within the    memory management.  D   I've seen only a very few fork/exec pairs that were using a forkedE   process implementation, the vast majority were simply using it as a D   way to chain to a new executable image.  It's the few that use theB   call to its potential that are the interesting cases -- the rest'   are basically vfork-style operations.   G   OpenVMS memory management does not provide copy-on-write, and OpenVMS E   I/O maintains rather more I/O channel context -- having two or more @   processes active on the same (or on a cloned) channel would beE   "interesting" when the applications don't expect same, and a forked D   process would likely expect all the I/O structures would point to -   the same file data as the original process.   D   Getting to the same context and contents within all of the variousG   process data structures of the new process is analogous to the effort A   involved in what is classically called checkpoint-restart, too. E   You're effectively copying the whole process context, and reloading    it within another process.  G   At its simplest, this fork stuff is easy -- and we already have vfork H   for those cases.   For the processes that really use fork the way thatC   it was "meant" to be used -- and not as a way to chain to another D   image -- the implementation of fork is an involved effort.  And ifH   it were easy, we'd already have it -- and we've most definitely lookedF   at the fork implementation and its requirements in detail, FWIW, andG   to the level of capabilities and compatibility that you would expect.     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:33:31 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> L Subject: Re: fork() (Was: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?), Message-ID: <434ADE22.8E7812B9@teksavvy.com>   Hoff Hoffman wrote: F >   I've seen only a very few fork/exec pairs that were using a forkedG >   process implementation, the vast majority were simply using it as a + >   way to chain to a new executable image.   E Under what circumstances would one want to copy your process to a new H identical one which can then diverge and write stuff to its own memory ?  G Or is this Unix' answer to global sections where the forked process can B continue to read memory structures of its parent process while theA parent continues to modify the memory ? (and as long as the child G doesn't write to it, it maintains the shared copy "owned" by the parent  ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 22:24:00 +0200 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>Q Subject: Re: fork() (Was: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?) ?)?) < Message-ID: <434acddb$0$90373$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>   Hoff Hoffman wrote: w > In article <434ab9e8$0$90389$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes:  > :Bill Gunshannon wrote: E > :> I was under the impression that VMS didn't have a true fork() at E > :> all, thus the big problem porting most OpenSource Unix software. E > :> In the Windows world, fork(0 has been around dince the MSDOS/MSC 
 > :> days. > : 0 > :My impression is that fork is a real Unixism. > : - > :But if Windows can have a fork I think VMS  > :can have a fork.  > E >   fork and exec replicates the process address space and all of the H >   process  data structures, and -- to allow for reasonable performanceC >   -- assumes the availability of copy-on-write support within the  >   memory management.    And Windows have copy-on-write ?   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 23:42:39 +0200 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>Q Subject: Re: fork() (Was: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?) ?)?) < Message-ID: <434ae049$0$90373$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Hoff Hoffman wrote: G > Under what circumstances would one want to copy your process to a new J > identical one which can then diverge and write stuff to its own memory ? > I > Or is this Unix' answer to global sections where the forked process can D > continue to read memory structures of its parent process while theC > parent continues to modify the memory ? (and as long as the child I > doesn't write to it, it maintains the shared copy "owned" by the parent  > ?    One usage is for a server.  ' On a threading OS you accept connection ( and start a thread to handle the client.  + On a non threading OS you accept connection * and fork a clone of yourself to handle the client.    Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 23:08:02 GMT 7 From: John Malmberg <malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hp> H Subject: Re: fork() (Was: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?)4 Message-ID: <mvC2f.14282$R85.13851@news.cpqcorp.net>   Bill Gunshannon wrote: > B > I was under the impression that VMS didn't have a true fork() atB > all, thus the big problem porting most OpenSource Unix software.B > In the Windows world, fork(0 has been around dince the MSDOS/MSC > days.   6 Not in any of the documentation that I have ever seen.  F The only fork() I have seen for the Microsoft world is in third party 
 libraries.   -John ! malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hp  Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 19:28:56 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today+ Message-ID: <434B0747.DB956724@comcast.net>   
 Lurker wrote:  > A > "David J Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message ' > news:4349428C.FDC0B542@comcast.net...  > > Lurker wrote:  > > > E > > > "David J Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message + > > > news:43482691.74A28823@comcast.net...  > > > M > > > > Like it or else, your employees are your business partners as much as / > > > > your vendors, investors or anyone else.  > > > ; > > > Employees - yes, they are. Unions - no, they are not.  > > E > > The union is there to protect the employees and keep the employer  > > honest.  > ; > You think so? What has honesty or not have to do with it? 6 > Presumably, all employees (and employer) have signed7 > a legally-binding contract, right? So it's more about 7 > re-negotiating the contract where the union gets into ; > the picture. If one of the parties is dishonest and tries 7 > to cheat on the contract - there are courts for that.  > 2 > I'll give you [an admittedly anecdotal] example:/ > Some years back I used to work for a software - > company which was split about 50/50 between , > unionized and non-unionized employees. Can- > you imagine the amount of mutual resentment + > between those two groups? Ironically, the 3 > non-unionized people were actually getting better 4 > pay packages (despite the usual claims that unions5 > get you a better deal). But of course, I'll have to 2 > admit that unionized people did get those 2-hour. > discussion meetings on company time when the  > rest of us had to do the work. >  > What's honest about that?   ? Unless the facts you cite were deliberately hidden, EVERYTHING!    > >  > > Are unions perfect? No > >  > > Are employers perfect? No. > >  > > Are employees perfect? NO. > > ' > > It's all about checks and balances.  > $ > Well, I'll agree with that one but' > my personal feeling is that the thing   > is way too much out of balance > at the moment.  E If you mean that employers are exploiting employees at the employees' + expense, I'd have to agree whole-heartedly.   C Does anyone actually believe that this crap about "you're paid well ? BECAUSE you're on call 24x7" would have ever even come close to + surviving organized, collective bargaining?   ! No F'ing way, dude! No F'ing way!   F IMO, we're paid for what we know and because we can fix tough problemsH in short order when no one else can. The fact that it frequently happensF in the wee hours via dial-up or VPN is frosting on the COMPANY's cake,	 not mine!   C If the company had to pay me overtime and/or out-of-hours time, I'd G likely still be living upstairs in my Mom's house driving a 15-year-old G beater, spouse or no spouse - because my base salary would be less than C the annualized hourly wages of the guy who collects the garbage and  recyclables.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 15:42:12 -0700 , From: Alan <Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com>, Subject: Re: Intel Itanium is for "Big Iron"% Message-ID: <1128983980.185794@smirk>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > I >>  other and various similar tasks, and running OpenVMS.  And the market F >>  that purchases OpenVMS on an rx1620 or on a Superdome is high-end,5 >>  big-iron customer.  Not the corner grocery store.   H > And you're missing the huge market in between the corner store and the( > high end, as well as the corner store.  > That is precisely the market that I used to sell into, back in= the PDP-11 and VAX days.   The customers may not have known a E lot about computers, but knew (via advertising) that "DEC", "PDP-11", B and "VAX" were high quality.   All I was selling was software, butC because it ran on DEC gear "it must be good", so they purchased the 3 configuration I recommended and everyone was happy.   @ True, none of them were corner grocery stores, but I had several+ customers with less than a dozen employees.    Alan   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Oct 2005 00:30:42 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon), Subject: Re: Intel Itanium is for "Big Iron"+ Message-ID: <3r0fdiFh8dcaU1@individual.net>   % In article <1128983980.185794@smirk>, / 	Alan <Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> writes:  > JF Mezei wrote:  >> Hoff Hoffman wrote: >>  J >>>  other and various similar tasks, and running OpenVMS.  And the marketG >>>  that purchases OpenVMS on an rx1620 or on a Superdome is high-end, 6 >>>  big-iron customer.  Not the corner grocery store. > I >> And you're missing the huge market in between the corner store and the ) >> high end, as well as the corner store.  > @ > That is precisely the market that I used to sell into, back in? > the PDP-11 and VAX days.   The customers may not have known a G > lot about computers, but knew (via advertising) that "DEC", "PDP-11", D > and "VAX" were high quality.   All I was selling was software, butE > because it ran on DEC gear "it must be good", so they purchased the 5 > configuration I recommended and everyone was happy.  > B > True, none of them were corner grocery stores, but I had several- > customers with less than a dozen employees.      E I still get pizza from a local shop who's POS was (and I assume still G is being as they are still using the same HDS terminalsthey have always G used) a MicrVAX running VMS.  I don't know who maintains it, if anyone, ! but it is definitely still going.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:47:12 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> , Subject: Re: Intel Itanium is for "Big Iron"0 Message-ID: <11km2gmpkljr07f@corp.supernews.com>   bob@instantwhip.com wrote:< > but what do you see after the rx1620 or is that to be sold; > for the next 5-10 years as the only entry level solution?  >    RX1621 RX1622 RX1623 .  .  .    :-)    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 18:14:04 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Y Subject: Re: Intel Itanium is for "Big Iron" (was: Re: Why did VMS users go along with th 3 Message-ID: <Mby2f.14237$W25.9725@news.cpqcorp.net>   _ In article <1128654545.389864.137910@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, bob@instantwhip.com writes: G :I put big iron in quotes because I read an article interviewing intels ? :new boss and he stated that word for word ... that itanium was @ :being made for big iron, no workstations, no 1P boxes, no sales= :to small and medium firms that don't need a superdome to run F :small 2-4 user offices ... that was on one of the major IT news sites  :straight from the horses mouth!  F   Itanium servers can be front-end systems in specific configurations,H   and running OpenVMS, or can be Superdome class servers running classic   Big Iron applications.    I   I certainly expect to see rx1620 systems driving X Windows displays and G   other and various similar tasks, and running OpenVMS.  And the market D   that purchases OpenVMS on an rx1620 or on a Superdome is high-end,3   big-iron customer.  Not the corner grocery store.   I   I might well see an OpenVMS Integrity server providing central services .   for Microsoft Windows or Linux clients, too.  H   And in this context, I certainly consider the rx1620 to be "big iron".    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2005 16:03:42 -0700 From: bob@instantwhip.com Y Subject: Re: Intel Itanium is for "Big Iron" (was: Re: Why did VMS users go along with th C Message-ID: <1128985422.889202.226980@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   : but what do you see after the rx1620 or is that to be sold9 for the next 5-10 years as the only entry level solution?    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:12:41 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> Y Subject: Re: Intel Itanium is for "Big Iron" (was: Re: Why did VMS users go along with th , Message-ID: <434AD942.59637885@teksavvy.com>   Hoff Hoffman wrote: I >   other and various similar tasks, and running OpenVMS.  And the market F >   that purchases OpenVMS on an rx1620 or on a Superdome is high-end,5 >   big-iron customer.  Not the corner grocery store.     F And you're missing the huge market in between the corner store and the& high end, as well as the corner store.  A Remember that small shops often buy a turn-key solution from some G vendor. For instance, there are vendors that specialise in bicycle shop A software (inventory of a bicycle shop is "interesting" because of F diversity of parts and parts that are sold as parts while from the sam1 stock, you may be using parts to assemble bikes).   F Such software writers might desire a robust solution such as VMS whichG would reduce their support costs at their customers (the bike shops for F instance), but because it is not aimed at that market, theyt avoid it.    E IA64 is *limiting* the potential for VMS.  In fact, it is limiting it  more than Alpha.    G For VMS, what is needed is a platform that does not limit its potential E market. And right now, that means the 8086 because it is available in 4 truly scalable versiosn from laptop to data centre.   E It doesn't rule out keeping VMS on that IA64 thing for Superdome type 8 applications until the 8086 scales to that size as well.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 19:38:32 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>' Subject: Migrating from Multinet to UCX + Message-ID: <434B0988.9635C794@comcast.net>   * (reposting to the Multinet and VMS groups)   Folks,  G Our site is migrating from Multinet to TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS V5.4 - (I call it simply "UCX" for obvious reasons).   A Does anyone have any automation for migrating the entire Multinet # configuration for each node to UCX?   A I'd prefer not to re-invent that wheel if someone already has it.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:58:09 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> + Subject: Re: Migrating from Multinet to UCX , Message-ID: <434B0E0B.43939F30@teksavvy.com>   David J Dachtera wrote: I > Our site is migrating from Multinet to TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS V5.4 / > (I call it simply "UCX" for obvious reasons).     F Since this is generally regarded as a downgrade, could you provide the) reasons for this move ? Is it financial ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:04:03 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>+ Subject: Re: Migrating from Multinet to UCX + Message-ID: <434B0F82.A815221E@comcast.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > David J Dachtera wrote: K > > Our site is migrating from Multinet to TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS V5.4 1 > > (I call it simply "UCX" for obvious reasons).  > H > Since this is generally regarded as a downgrade, could you provide the+ > reasons for this move ? Is it financial ?   & I agree, it is a FUNCTIONAL downgrade.  E Management has made it clear that the question is not open to debate.   D That said, I do hope the performance we hope to gain will offset the> increased operating costs we expect as a result of the switch.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 21:59:56 -0500 ( From: Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>+ Subject: Re: Migrating from Multinet to UCX B Message-ID: <1128999596.b157899a6833250e0542ce23fa3ba065@teranews>  J On 10/10/2005 20:04:03 David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote:   > JF Mezei wrote:    >> David J Dachtera wrote:  K >>> Our site is migrating from Multinet to TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS V5.4 1 >>> (I call it simply "UCX" for obvious reasons).   I >> Since this is generally regarded as a downgrade, could you provide the - >> reasons for this move ?  Is it financial ?   ( > I agree, it is a FUNCTIONAL downgrade.  G > Management has made it clear that the question is not open to debate.   F > That said, I do hope the performance we hope to gain will offset the@ > increased operating costs we expect as a result of the switch.  L One way to limit the effects of the downgrade is to disable the ftp and smtp3 services in the stack and use hgftp and mx instead.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:35:19 -0400 2 From: "Paul A. Jacobi" <Paul.Jacobi@nospam.hp.com>2 Subject: Re: Missed opportunity for VMS marketing., Message-ID: <434adf52$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  @ "David J Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message % news:43472C36.F617661F@comcast.net...  > ? > As far as that goes, every month's new issue of any trade rag - > constitutes a missed marketing opportunity.   M OpenVMS is included in the ad for the RX4640 on page 33 in the September 26,  . 2005 issue of EETIMES.  Is that recent enough?     Paul A. Jacobi HP OpenVMS System Group 
 Nashua, NH   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 19:32:39 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>2 Subject: Re: Missed opportunity for VMS marketing.* Message-ID: <434B0827.83BB0C8@comcast.net>   "Paul A. Jacobi" wrote:  > A > "David J Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message ' > news:43472C36.F617661F@comcast.net...  > > A > > As far as that goes, every month's new issue of any trade rag / > > constitutes a missed marketing opportunity.  > N > OpenVMS is included in the ad for the RX4640 on page 33 in the September 26,0 > 2005 issue of EETIMES.  Is that recent enough? >  > Paul A. Jacobi > HP OpenVMS System Group  > Nashua, NH  < Link please? ...or page number and date and full name of the publication?   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 19:23:12 -0700 3 From: "C.W.Holeman II" <cwhii_googlespam@yahoo.com> 3 Subject: new syntax for certain file specifications 0 Message-ID: <11km8gg5bim4rc0@corp.supernews.com>   Hoff Hoffman wrote: I >   BTW, one of the other engineers just stopped by -- there are some new B >   changes underway that will snarl code that thinks it can parseF >   filenames. We are probably going to be activating a new syntax forL >   certain file specifications in an upcoming release -- existing code thatJ >   has carnal knowledge of the filename format won't "know" about the newF >   file naming syntax and its associated naming structure, obviously.  3 Like http://vms.xyz.com/dka2:[samiam]abc.txt;1234 ?    --   C.W.Holeman II) cwhii@Julian5Locals5.com remove the fives   http://free.ProHosting.com/cwhii   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 18:29:20 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Y Subject: Re: ODS-5 directory and header definitions, where? Was: [OT] - dealing with ;327 4 Message-ID: <4qy2f.14243$W25.11804@news.cpqcorp.net>  K In article <87wtkpasp5.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, prep@prep.synonet.com writes: 4 :Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> writes: :  :> prep@prep.synonet.com wrote: L :>> Anyone know where the details of ODS-5 and version numbering is defined? : H :> Kirby McCoy's book "VMS File System Internals", ISBN 1-55558-056-4 orG :> 0-13-931783-X, details ODS-2 and version numbering. ODS-5 is just an F :> extension (fairly minor in scope) to ODS-2 for things like extended@ :> character sets for filenames. Hoff's pointers may be helpful. : O :Specifically, does ODS-5 have the same NAME, VERSION-NUMBER, FID (with counts, N :lengths etc) as the ODS-2 directory? The name part I can ignore, if the rest  :is consistant.   &   ODS-5 names differ from ODS-2 names.  C   Don't parse specifications yourself, you will almost certainly be C   wrong in your assumptions and your implementation -- either right C   now, or in the future.  (This is not intended to be rude; solely  E   to transfer knowledge gained from where I got myself into trouble.)   C   Don't parse the contents of directories, you are almost certainly C   going to get caught out if/when we change the internal structures C   of the directories.  (There are documented and supported APIs for ?   processing the contents of directories, too, ranging from the B   lib$find_file family to the C readdir and friends to the RMS and(   XQP services, to various other calls.)  A   Where's the version number within the specification string, for ?   instance, when there can be multiple periods within the name? A   This parsing stuff is tricky, and it gets uglier the deeper you    get into it.  ?   I thought I could parse filenames, and I know about the angle B   brackets, the multiple dots (including the available second-dot A   delimiter for the version string), the shortened filenames (the A   so-called FIDded and DIDded names), the unicode characters, and ?   existing differences in the version string parsing.   Oh, and A   the case-sensitivity that can be relevent within some of parsin C   contexts.   After I was sufficiently, um, educated by the parsing F   code and the "fun" I had, I found using the system parsing routines *   to be far faster, and far more reliable.  =   The whole point of the implementation of and the use of the ?   available application programming interfaces is to allow your C   code to survive upgrades, and (in cases such as this one) changes )   made to the underlying disk structures.       Please learn from my mistakes.        N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2005 11:27:31 -0700$ From: "Ed Wilts" <ewilts@ewilts.org>Y Subject: Re: ODS-5 directory and header definitions, where? Was: [OT] - dealing with ;327 C Message-ID: <1128968851.313884.122060@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Hoff Hoffman wrote: A >   I thought I could parse filenames, and I know about the angle C >   brackets, the multiple dots (including the available second-dot C >   delimiter for the version string), the shortened filenames (the C >   so-called FIDded and DIDded names), the unicode characters, and A >   existing differences in the version string parsing.   Oh, and C >   the case-sensitivity that can be relevent within some of parsin 
 >   contexts.   G And the commas in the directory spec.  It's amazing how many people get ? this wrong.  Even dfu, which is supposed to validate and repair  directories, can't handle this.   D What I still don't understand, though, is why dev:[0,0] is valid butD only when dev is not rooted to a subdirectory.  Sure it's goofy, but why shouldn't it work?  	    .../Ed    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:17:22 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Y Subject: Re: ODS-5 directory and header definitions, where? Was: [OT] - dealing with ;327 4 Message-ID: <m%z2f.14261$Ha5.12005@news.cpqcorp.net>  j In article <1128968851.313884.122060@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Ed Wilts" <ewilts@ewilts.org> writes: :Hoff Hoffman wrote:B :>   I thought I could parse filenames, and I know about the angleD :>   brackets, the multiple dots (including the available second-dotD :>   delimiter for the version string), the shortened filenames (theD :>   so-called FIDded and DIDded names), the unicode characters, andB :>   existing differences in the version string parsing.   Oh, andD :>   the case-sensitivity that can be relevent within some of parsin :>   contexts. : H :And the commas in the directory spec.  It's amazing how many people get@ :this wrong.  Even dfu, which is supposed to validate and repair  :directories, can't handle this.  D   FIDded and DIDded (filename abbreviations) get involved here, too,D   as ways to have "strange" character sequences embedded within fileB   specifications -- you can't do a straight string comparision forD   equality or sorting when one or both of the file specifications is!   FIDded or DIDded, for instance.   E :What I still don't understand, though, is why dev:[0,0] is valid but E :only when dev is not rooted to a subdirectory.  Sure it's goofy, but  :why shouldn't it work?   F   The UIC directory syntax is arguably a corner-case within the parserH   implemented for RSX-11M application compatibility, and this particularH   case is (actually) explicitly documented as not working.  RSX-11M onlyE   had these directories at the top level, so this limitation isn't a  I   particular change from the way RSX-11M implemented this.  That written, J   there are a number of other corner cases lurking, including the handling   of the 000000 specification.  G   BTW, one of the other engineers just stopped by -- there are some new K   changes underway that will snarl code that thinks it can parse filenames. F   We are probably going to be activating a new syntax for certain fileH   specifications in an upcoming release -- existing code that has carnalI   knowledge of the filename format won't "know" about the new file naming 8   syntax and its associated naming structure, obviously.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:35:21 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Y Subject: Re: ODS-5 directory and header definitions, where? Was: [OT] - dealing with ;327 3 Message-ID: <dgA2f.14265$fa5.5294@news.cpqcorp.net>   T In article <3qvtc0Fh59sbU1@individual.net>, Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch> writes:F :... and the device specification must be a physical device name. The J :equivalence name for a rooted-device logical name must not contain other  :logical names.   H   This has been a long-standing assumption.  Albiet, apparently, not theD   most well-documented of ones.  I prefer to set up concealed rootedD   logical names this way, having read of this particular restrictionF   (expectation) an eon or so ago.  (When one of these concealed rootedF   logical name definitions doesn't work, I will usually go directly to@   the SYS$SYSROOT logical name translations as an example, too.)  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2005 15:53:55 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Y Subject: Re: ODS-5 directory and header definitions, where? Was: [OT] - dealing with ;327 3 Message-ID: <Dt4XiA37uIAk@eisner.encompasserve.org>   j In article <1128968851.313884.122060@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Ed Wilts" <ewilts@ewilts.org> writes: > F > What I still don't understand, though, is why dev:[0,0] is valid butF > only when dev is not rooted to a subdirectory.  Sure it's goofy, but > why shouldn't it work?  C    For compatability with RSX and ODS-1, where [g,m] refered to the F    three digit octal group and member number of a directory who's fullB    name is gggddd.DIR;1 in [0,0].  Early versions of VMS had [1,3]!    instead of [SYSLOST] and such.   C    You can set up a 000000.DIR;1 in a rooted directory, pointing to A    itself, so that it works with [0,0], but I wouldn't do it if I     were you.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 09:46:07 +0800 + From: Tim E Sneddon <tesneddon@bigpond.com> Y Subject: Re: ODS-5 directory and header definitions, where? Was: [OT] - dealing with ;327 B Message-ID: <1128995203.65afe672fd4d768562a2b0f37db87a63@teranews>   Bob Koehler wrote:l > In article <1128968851.313884.122060@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Ed Wilts" <ewilts@ewilts.org> writes: > F >>What I still don't understand, though, is why dev:[0,0] is valid butF >>only when dev is not rooted to a subdirectory.  Sure it's goofy, but >>why shouldn't it work? >  > E >    For compatability with RSX and ODS-1, where [g,m] refered to the H >    three digit octal group and member number of a directory who's fullD >    name is gggddd.DIR;1 in [0,0].  Early versions of VMS had [1,3]# >    instead of [SYSLOST] and such.   @ RSTS had this syntax too. I'm pretty sure TOPS-10/20 had similar: syntax, but you could have sub-directories inside the UFD.   > E >    You can set up a 000000.DIR;1 in a rooted directory, pointing to C >    itself, so that it works with [0,0], but I wouldn't do it if I  >    were you. >   G This is also the syntax used when describing how to restore VMS0xx.B in $ the OpenVMS VAX installation manual.  
 Regards, Tim.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 18:47:19 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) . Subject: Re: OPCCRASH.EXE (was: Re: OPC$CRASH)3 Message-ID: <XGy2f.14246$W25.2231@news.cpqcorp.net>    In article <1128953731.023094.44150@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "SanthoshfromJay@gmail.com" <SanthoshfromJay@gmail.com> writes:  G :Can anyone  give full details of OPCCRASH and logicals related to it ,  :ex: OPC$nodump   =   Some background on the problem you seek to resolve, please?   F   The basic opccrash documentation is in the manuals, and specificallyH   in the emergency shutdown procedures in the system management manuals.  B http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/82FINAL/aa-pv5mj-tk/aa-pv5mj-tk.HTMl  G   If you are interested in some of the undocumented interfaces, do look H   within SHUTDOWN.COM, and do try entering "opccrash opc$nodump" or such#   into your prefered search engine.      ---   J   As of OpenVMS V8.2, the logical names (documented and otherwise) include   the following:    1     OPC$UNLOAD: TRUE causes disk unload/spindown, .     OPC$REBOOT: TRUE enables automatic reboot,5     OPC$NODUMP: set TRUE to disable writing the dump, D     OPC$CLUSTER_SHUTDOWN: set TRUE if performing a cluster shutdown,B     OPC$REMOVE_NODE: set TRUE if this node is leaving the cluster,B     OPC$GALAXY_SHUTDOWN: set TRUE if the Galaxy is shutting down, ?     OPC$POWER_OFF: set TRUE to power down.  (Requires hardware  :         that can support a software-requested power-down.)  F   Logical name translation strings begining with T, Y or 1 are assumed(   to be TRUE, all else is assumed FALSE.  G   AFAIK, only OPC$NODUMP is documented and supported.  All other values C   and all other logical names are subject to change without notice.   E   If you need/want more details, do see the OpenVMS source listings.  B   The module you will want to seek in there is [OPCOM]OPCCRASH.LIS  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 00:13:33 GMT @ From: "Schroeder, AJ" <aaron.no-spam.schroeder@tmscomputers.com>* Subject: Re: Resetting Compaq SANSwitch 168 Message-ID: <NsD2f.97867$32.12151@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com>   Colin Butcher wrote:F > ** The SANswitch 16 manual (EK-BCP28-IA.B01) says this on page 4-12: >  >     Reset to Default > J >     To reset all values in the Configuration menu to default conditions,N > press <Enter> while Reset to Default displays on the front panel. Select YesK > and press     <Enter>. If you have customized the Ethernet IP address and I > switch name for your environment, these do not reset to default values. A >     NOTE: Resetting the switch to default conditions causes all K > configuration settings, names, and passwords entered to revert to default  > settings.  >  > J > ** The Fabric OS manual V3.1.x / V4.1.x (AA-RS24C-TE) says this on pages
 > 139-140: >  >     configDefault E >     Reset a subset of configuration settings to the default values.  > configDefault  >     Admin  >     V3.1.x and V4.1.x M >     Use this command to reset certain configuration settings to the default J > values. All configuration parameters, with the following exceptions, are > reset to default
 >     values: < > n         Ethernet MAC address, IP address, and subnetmask > n         IP gateway address > n         License keys > n         OEM customization  > n         SNMP configuration > n         System name  > n         World Wide Name ) > n         Advanced Zoning configuration L >     Note: See the configure command for more information on default values > for configuration parameters. M >     The configDefault command may not be executed on an enabled switch. You @ > must first disable the switch using the switchDisable command. >  >     Fabric OS CommandsF >     Some configuration parameters are cached by the system. To avoidM > unexpected switch behavior, reboot the system after executing this command.  >        Operands  >     None. 
 >     Example < >     To restore the system configuration to default values: > D >      switch:admin> configDefault Committing Configuration ...done. >  >     See Also8 >     agtcfgDefault configure switchDisable switchEnable >  >  > I > Worth checking that you did disable the switch first. Maybe you need to  > update the firmware too? > I One other thing to note is the command 'configDefault' doesn't exit with    a zero like every other command:   fcs2:root> configDefault  Committing configuration...done.K It is recommended that the system be rebooted to avoid unexpected behavior.  value = 76 = 0x4c 
 fcs2:root>   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 12:41:56 -0500 (CDT) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)2 Subject: Re: TCPIP V5.4, SMTP & non-existant users2 Message-ID: <05101012415655_20200274@antinode.org>   From: jordan@ccs4vms.com  H > Verified on ECO2 as well.  I guess my customers have been lucky in theH > choice of fake addresses being used.  I'd guess it limits based on the# > standard OpenVMS username length.   ,    "Twelve" does have a familiar ring to it.  H > Is your system under support, so you can report this as a bug?  If not" > I will.  Or maybe I will anyway.  H    I have only Hobbyist licenses, so no support beyond whining in forumsG like this (which often works, I must admit).  (But I believe that I can H get a full refund on the cost of the licenses.)  Anyone in a position to" do more certainly has my blessing.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 15:54:41 -0500 (CDT) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)2 Subject: Re: TCPIP V5.4, SMTP & non-existant users2 Message-ID: <05101015544152_20200274@antinode.org>  %    Still worse.  As noted previously:   " rcpt to: twelve_chars@antinode.org< 550 < twelve_chars@antinode.org> ... Addressee undeliverable   while:  # rcpt to: thirteen_chrs@antinode.org 1 250 < thirteen_chrs@antinode.org>... Recipient OK   % But a bit more poking around reveals:   " rcpt to: twelve-chars@antinode.org0 250 < twelve-chars@antinode.org>... Recipient OK   rcpt to: abc-def@antinode.org + 250 < abc-def@antinode.org>... Recipient OK   E .. and so on.  Perhaps any VMS-invalid user name is considered "OK".   Or perhaps not:   $ rcpt to: AARRRGGGHHH!!!@antinode.org8 550 < AARRRGGGHHH!!!@antinode.org> ... Addressee unknown  1 Could be worse.  (Could be _completely_ useless.)   H    With the current junk e-mail bounce message deluge here, I could sure1 use a quick fix for this.  Instant would be good.   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:06:08 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 2 Subject: Re: TCPIP V5.4, SMTP & non-existant users, Message-ID: <434AD7B9.FF88C822@teksavvy.com>   "Steven M. Schweda" wrote:" > RCPT TO: 1234567890@antinode.org< > 550 < 1234567890@antinode.org> ... Addressee undeliverable  G > And now it becomes clear.  Invalid names no longer than 12 characters E > are undeliverable.  Invalid names longer than 12 characters are OK.     H The VMSMAIL_PROFILE.DATA has its primary key length of 31 bytes, not 12.: And the TCPIP_SMTP$RECEIVER.EXE should be checking againstK VMSMAIL_PROFILE.DATA and not SYSUAF.DAT. So the 12 byte limit is not right.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:44:31 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 2 Subject: Re: TCPIP V5.4, SMTP & non-existant users, Message-ID: <434AE0B6.39281B55@teksavvy.com>   "Steven M. Schweda" wrote:J >    With the current junk e-mail bounce message deluge here, I could sure3 > use a quick fix for this.  Instant would be good.     F Do you have a list of usernames that the spammers use ? If so, you can load then up with:  C $MAIL SET FORWARD/USER="chantellsjoquisstin" smtp%nla0@antinode.org   ' (do the same for all the common names )    then  " $CREATE TCPIP$SMTP$COMMON:NLA0.DIS <CTRL Z> $     E The emails will be received but delivered to nobody because the names 2 redirect to a distribution list containing nobody.   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 18:11:10 -0500 (CDT) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)2 Subject: Re: TCPIP V5.4, SMTP & non-existant users2 Message-ID: <05101018110990_20200274@antinode.org>  - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>   F > Do you have a list of usernames that the spammers use ? If so, [...]  G    Here's a small sample (extracted from TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.LOG;*, and ) slightly altered).  Do you see a pattern?   ) recv buf=RCPT TO:<phi@antinode.ord>\0d\0a 5 recv buf=RCPT TO:<piggtoseutychos@antinode.ord>\0d\0a 1 recv buf=RCPT TO:<NILMAHLIAK2@antinode.ord>\0d\0a 0 recv buf=RCPT TO:<kailhamlin@antinode.ord>\0d\0a/ recv buf=RCPT To:<maestkfer@antinode.ord>\0d\0a 0 recv buf=RCPT TO:<eitantamez@antinode.ord>\0d\0a, recv buf=RCPT TO:<sweene@antinode.ord>\0d\0a) recv buf=RCPT To:<sto@antinode.ord>\0d\0a , recv buf=RCPT TO:<duggan@antinode.ord>\0d\0a- recv buf=RCPT TO:<eroscim@antinode.ord>\0d\0a , recv buf=RCPT TO:<merita@antinode.ord>\0d\0a, recv buf=RCPT TO:<samfor@antinode.ord>\0d\0a/ recv buf=RCPT TO:<cordewick@antinode.ord>\0d\0a , recv buf=RCPT TO:<kellin@antinode.ord>\0d\0a3 recv buf=RCPT TO:<karesindrhopp@antinode.ord>\0d\0a 1 recv buf=RCPT TO:<pirankgilgu@antinode.ord>\0d\0a 5 recv buf=RCPT TO:<chennauljcgiedr@antinode.ord>\0d\0a / recv buf=RCPT TO:<iessjqbml@antinode.ord>\0d\0a / recv buf=RCPT TO:<stokelutg@antinode.ord>\0d\0a ) recv buf=RCPT TO:<poe@antinode.ord>\0d\0a + recv buf=RCPT TO:<spero@antinode.ord>\0d\0a , recv buf=RCPT To:<harlan@antinode.ord>\0d\0a0 recv buf=RCPT TO:<coleleague@antinode.ord>\0d\0a5 recv buf=RCPT TO:<wilhoionvvsaman@antinode.ord>\0d\0a ? recv buf=RCPT TO:<vienwcvxhqpoxcjixenarvaez@antinode.ord>\0d\0a 4 recv buf=RCPT TO:<dusdlwxmercury@antinode.ord>\0d\0a1 recv buf=RCPT To:<stukegilber@antinode.ord>\0d\0a + recv buf=RCPT To:<given@antinode.ord>\0d\0a / recv buf=RCPT TO:<pipesglor@antinode.ord>\0d\0a 4 recv buf=RCPT TO:<hartsellsavina@antinode.ord>\0d\0a/ recv buf=RCPT TO:<montivdai@antinode.ord>\0d\0a 2 recv buf=RCPT TO:<dekvobellamy@antinode.ord>\0d\0a/ recv buf=RCPT TO:<tsengisid@antinode.ord>\0d\0a - recv buf=RCPT TO:<ronalda@antinode.ord>\0d\0a , recv buf=RCPT TO:<foxxre@antinode.ord>\0d\0a, recv buf=RCPT TO:<boutte@antinode.ord>\0d\0a, recv buf=RCPT TO:<tugger@antinode.ord>\0d\0a+ recv buf=RCPT TO:<stotd@antinode.ord>\0d\0a 1 recv buf=RCPT TO:<tavarisador@antinode.ord>\0d\0a + recv buf=RCPT TO:<oppeg@antinode.ord>\0d\0a + recv buf=RCPT To:<enita@antinode.ord>\0d\0a 1 recv buf=RCPT TO:<medsduchene@antinode.ord>\0d\0a , recv buf=RCPT TO:<little@antinode.ord>\0d\0a0 recv buf=RCPT TO:<gaitynherm@antinode.ord>\0d\0a1 recv buf=RCPT TO:<orazioweila@antinode.ord>\0d\0a * recv buf=RCPT TO:<esth@antinode.ord>\0d\0a4 recv buf=RCPT TO:<02060607211952@antinode.ord>\0d\0a/ recv buf=RCPT To:<tucklodew@antinode.ord>\0d\0a , recv buf=RCPT TO:<spagno@antinode.ord>\0d\0a/ recv buf=RCPT TO:<marinbuhr@antinode.ord>\0d\0a , recv buf=RCPT TO:<cypher@antinode.ord>\0d\0a- recv buf=RCPT TO:<ustinya@antinode.ord>\0d\0a 0 recv buf=RCPT TO:<corentrumf@antinode.ord>\0d\0a+ recv buf=RCPT TO:<gyles@antinode.ord>\0d\0a , recv buf=RCPT TO:<tomasi@antinode.ord>\0d\0a+ recv buf=RCPT TO:<jakes@antinode.ord>\0d\0a 2 recv buf=RCPT TO:<giosettadoug@antinode.ord>\0d\0a- recv buf=RCPT TO:<cogburn@antinode.ord>\0d\0a / recv buf=RCPT TO:<thaliahel@antinode.ord>\0d\0a 7 recv buf=RCPT To:<gremilliohlenadit@antinode.ord>\0d\0a / recv buf=RCPT TO:<viktowhet@antinode.ord>\0d\0a 0 recv buf=RCPT TO:<grehgmayra@antinode.ord>\0d\0a, recv buf=RCPT TO:<ragnar@antinode.ord>\0d\0a+ recv buf=RCPT TO:<zenia@antinode.ord>\0d\0a   G    If you need more, I can get you a set of 1000 new ones every hour or  so.   E    I hadn't realized how many of these _were_ being rejected (as they G were short enough not to hit the bug).  I knew that more were coming in F than I was seeing, but I had assumed that they were being rejected for other reasons.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:43:40 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 2 Subject: Re: TCPIP V5.4, SMTP & non-existant users, Message-ID: <434B0AA7.4B1FB135@teksavvy.com>   "Steven M. Schweda" wrote:I >    Here's a small sample (extracted from TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.LOG;*, and + > slightly altered).  Do you see a pattern?       C Yep I see a clear pattern: they are all destined to your domain :-)   D But i see your point. I was kinda hoping that they would have a moreF limited list of names used to construct fake email addresses.  The oneF advantage is for Hollywood folks who now have an easy access to a wide6 variety of names that can be used in their scripts :-)  H Out of curiosity, how did you generate that list ? Did you use SEARCH toC scan all the different receiver logs to extract the RCPT TO lines ?     F It would be interesting for you to do a SET WATCH FILE in the receiverF to see if the receiver tries to access the VMSMAIL_PROFILE.DATA and/or the SYSUAF.DAT      ; HP could do us a big favour if they were to open source the G TCPIP$RECEIVER . We need something that can move fast for the anti-spam D features, and right now, the TCPIP Services folks are moving way too* slow. And we don't get it for VAX anymore.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:55:19 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 2 Subject: Re: TCPIP V5.4, SMTP & non-existant users, Message-ID: <434B0D62.DD60BBC6@teksavvy.com>  	 One idea.      point antinode.ord to node2   @ On node2, have a vmsprofile entry for just your valid usernames.  ( eg: MAIL SET FORWARD/user=sms node1::sms9 or  MAIL SET FORWARD/user=sms smtp%sms@node1.antinode.ord     C This way, node2 would be handling all the junk, and only legitimate  messages would get to node1.   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2005 20:03:17 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 2 Subject: Re: TCPIP V5.4, SMTP & non-existant users3 Message-ID: <2rKkpQcVyxE+@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <434B0AA7.4B1FB135@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:  = > HP could do us a big favour if they were to open source the I > TCPIP$RECEIVER . We need something that can move fast for the anti-spam F > features, and right now, the TCPIP Services folks are moving way too > slow.   ; The typical response to such behavior is alternate vendors.   E Process Software is in this market with three lines of email support.    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 21:41:39 -0500 (CDT) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)2 Subject: Re: TCPIP V5.4, SMTP & non-existant users2 Message-ID: <05101021413914_20200274@antinode.org>  - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>   F > But i see your point. I was kinda hoping that they would have a moreH > limited list of names used to construct fake email addresses.  The oneH > advantage is for Hollywood folks who now have an easy access to a wide8 > variety of names that can be used in their scripts :-)  =    I'm no junk e-mail expert, but the names appear to be more B pronouncable than purely random letters, rather like VMS generated
 passwords.  J > Out of curiosity, how did you generate that list ? Did you use SEARCH toE > scan all the different receiver logs to extract the RCPT TO lines ?   % ALP $ search /match = and /noheader - 5  TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.LOG;* "RCPT TO", "@antinode.org"   I I currently keep about 4000 log files, so you didn't get the whole list.  2 (And I did remove a few cases of valid addresses.)  # Directory SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$SMTP]    TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.LOG;20428 G                             2  10-OCT-2005 22:00:07.10  (RWED,RWED,RE,)  TCPIP$SMTP_RECV_RUN.LOG;16401 G                             2  10-OCT-2005 19:28:13.17  (RWED,RWED,RE,)   G    As you can see, that's about 4000 in about 2.5 hours (which is about  as fast as I've seen it).   H > It would be interesting for you to do a SET WATCH FILE in the receiverH > to see if the receiver tries to access the VMSMAIL_PROFILE.DATA and/or > the SYSUAF.DAT  )    No, it might be interesting for _you_.   = > HP could do us a big favour if they were to open source the I > TCPIP$RECEIVER . We need something that can move fast for the anti-spam F > features, and right now, the TCPIP Services folks are moving way too, > slow. And we don't get it for VAX anymore.  - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)   = > The typical response to such behavior is alternate vendors.  > G > Process Software is in this market with three lines of email support.   G    True, and there is a Hobbyist license there, too, though not for MX, 4 I believe, but conversion involves actual work, too.  H    As I've said before, I'd settle for a hook to a user-supplied commandH procedure which could implement more complex behavior.  (Perhaps one for' the receiver and one for the symbiont.)   E    The same goes for anonymous connections to the FTP server, where I 5 could greatly reduce my annoyance by rejecting these:   "    search /match = and /noheader -6     SYS$SYSDEVICE:[TCPIP$FTP]TCPIP$FTP_ANONYMOUS.LOG -"     "logged in", "gpuser@home.com"  G  3-JAN-2003 08:10:39.49 User:anonymous logged in ident:Cgpuser@home.com  from Host:166.114.253.187 G  6-JAN-2003 19:57:17.07 User:anonymous logged in ident:Igpuser@home.com % from Host:p50878BA1.dip.t-dialin.net  G  8-JAN-2003 12:11:43.92 User:anonymous logged in ident:Ugpuser@home.com 0 from Host:AToulouse-105-1-11-150.abo.wanadoo.fr G 12-JAN-2003 20:32:49.66 User:anonymous logged in ident:Ngpuser@home.com % from Host:pD9051AC8.dip.t-dialin.net  G 13-JAN-2003 09:19:46.53 User:anonymous logged in ident:Rgpuser@home.com + from Host:TK212017072094.tuwien.teleweb.at  G 14-JAN-2003 13:38:26.45 User:anonymous logged in ident:Ygpuser@home.com % from Host:pD9511383.dip.t-dialin.net  G 16-JAN-2003 19:05:24.62 User:anonymous logged in ident:Sgpuser@home.com " from Host:CDR8-29.accesscable.net G 25-JAN-2003 11:22:44.91 User:anonymous logged in ident:Rgpuser@home.com % from Host:pD9E48DED.dip.t-dialin.net  G 31-JAN-2003 13:08:40.15 User:anonymous logged in ident:Qgpuser@home.com % from Host:p50844B10.dip.t-dialin.net  G  1-FEB-2003 19:57:46.58 User:anonymous logged in ident:Cgpuser@home.com  from Host:80.131.52.140 G  6-FEB-2003 22:12:42.11 User:anonymous logged in ident:Ogpuser@home.com % from Host:pD9E3337C.dip.t-dialin.net  G 14-FEB-2003 16:12:25.93 User:anonymous logged in ident:Mgpuser@home.com  from Host:node-c-458d.a2000.nl  G 17-FEB-2003 03:38:11.39 User:anonymous logged in ident:Qgpuser@home.com " from Host:CDR8-29.accesscable.net G 23-FEB-2003 06:20:49.66 User:anonymous logged in ident:Igpuser@home.com % from Host:pD9E33613.dip.t-dialin.net  G 28-FEB-2003 06:33:51.99 User:anonymous logged in ident:Hgpuser@home.com % from Host:pD9E7D823.dip.t-dialin.net  G 21-MAR-2003 07:09:37.31 User:anonymous logged in ident:Mgpuser@home.com + from Host:ALyon-207-1-4-238.abo.wanadoo.fr   [...]   ?    These would be easy enough to identify, but I'm unaware of a / mechanism to do it with the current FTP server.   - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>    > One idea.  >  > point antinode.ord to node2  >  > On node2, [...]   H    If electric heat were cheaper than natural gas, or if I had some real@ work for the other system to do, I might more seriously considerF something like that.  But it's not, and I don't.  (The "new" XP1000 isD already doing SETI@home work units oodles faster than the AlpSta 200D 4/233.  It's even gaining in the "You have completed more work units1 than NN.NNN% of our users." value, for a change.)   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 23:59:24 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 2 Subject: Re: TCPIP V5.4, SMTP & non-existant users, Message-ID: <434B3892.95469CA4@teksavvy.com>   "Steven M. Schweda" wrote:? >    I'm no junk e-mail expert, but the names appear to be more D > pronouncable than purely random letters, rather like VMS generated > passwords.  C Of the junk I get, the From: lines are quite telling. They all have @ valid human first and last names in the freeform areas, and someH apparently valid username @domain.tld in the email address, however, the( username never matches the freeform name   eg: - From: Alexis Bauer <rzhhhddth@optoonline.com>   G It appears that they have harcvested a lot fo valid email addresses and E names and are mixing the name and email or simply randomly generating & the email address with a valid domain.  F Remember that for every tactitc used by systems managers, the spammers" work hard to find a way around it.    + >    No, it might be interesting for _you_.   E Knowing how the addition to the receiver works might help determine a  way to make it work.  F For instance, if the receiver process uses MAIL$USER_GET_INFO routine,E it needs SYSNAM. Doesd the TCPIP$SMTP_RECEIVER.EXE image have SYSNAME E installed ? If not, its requests to lookup the user profile would all ' come back with "not enough privileges".   E Also, consider that it is possible to have a user with a SYSUAF entry D but no VMSMAIL_PROFILE.DATA entry and vice versa.  But if I rememberD correctly, $GETUAI requires SYSPRV to find entries other than yours.   F So consider the coder. With a name longer than 12 characters, he wouldG know to only check vmsmail_profile.data with MAIL$USER_GET_INFO and not F bother checking SYSUAF since it couldn't be in sysuaf whose key is maxH 12 bytes. However, failure to get MAIL$USER_GET_INFO doesn't necessarilyF mean it is undeliverable sincit could be in SYSUAF without an entry in VMSMAIL profile yet.  J >    As I've said before, I'd settle for a hook to a user-supplied commandJ > procedure which could implement more complex behavior.  (Perhaps one for) > the receiver and one for the symbiont.)   B TCPIP$SMTP_RECEIVER.EXE uses undocumented TCPIP$xxxxxx routines toG create the control files and submit them to the symbiont. If those were C documented, it would then be possible to write your own receiver to $ simply replace the DEC supplied one.  F Right now, one would have to use the SFF routines which means incomingD message would have to be written to file, then give that file to SFFG routines which would then rewrite the same data to another set of files B (essentially executing the SMTP commands you add to the top of the8 message) and submit them to the symbiont for processing.   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2005 21:06:01 -02006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)/ Subject: Re: TCPware starts up, then shuts down , Message-ID: <434ad7b9$1@news.langstoeger.at>  _ In article <1128964089.161141.248660@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, bob@instantwhip.com writes: 6 >when you say startnet do you mean tcpware startnet or7 >decnet startnet ... if you have tcpware starting after 7 >all other network services and ucx startup is disabled : >then either vms is shutting you down or a network problem >must be ...  + Come on, Bob. He posted the relevant infos.  TCPware:Startnet.COMH And the failure of the RPC startup leads to TCPware shutting down again.    I For a workaround remove RPC from config (and start it afterward manually) J but for the reason I still have no clue. Did you perhaps installed another7 product (like SSH, DCE, ...) in the last months/weeks ?   4 And yes, having a startup log is always a good idea.H Start with STARTUP_P2="DC" in MODPARAMS.DAT for a SYS$SYSTEM:STARTUP.LOG   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2005 16:00:12 -0700 From: bob@instantwhip.com / Subject: Re: TCPware starts up, then shuts down C Message-ID: <1128985212.371819.179620@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>   8 if he is repositioning the tcpware startnet, it needs to3 be after all other network services i.e. decnet ...    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2005 19:12:56 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>1 Subject: Re: Thought you would enjoy this posting C Message-ID: <1128996776.042044.162190@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Z wrote: > AEF wrote:1 > >>>I found this posting on a Windoze newsgroup. 4 > >>>(should I have just told him to switch to VMS?) > 6 > >>No; he'll be screwed as soon as he gets to ;32767.K > >>Most 3rd party apps for Unix/Windows system don't have that limitation.  > E > > Well, Windows would probably blue screen long before reaching the  > > 32767th version!? > > Having multiple versions of files is a mixed blessing, IMO.  > C > Ok, now THAT I agree with! Too many people think the VMS way with I > multiple versions is always the best. "Mixed blessing" is closer to the 
 > truth, IMO.   C But I still prefer multiple-versions. Sorry, I should have set that D initially. I acknowledge that you pay for multiple versions with theF need to periodically clean up and the ;32767 problem. You have to take? the good with the bad. A trade-off, as so many things are. Etc.    ------------------------------   Date: 10 Oct 2005 18:13:50 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com  Subject: Re: Vamp Hacked! , Message-ID: <dieb0u024ra@enews4.newsguy.com>  . Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@spamcop.net> wrote:J > In article <dhuusu01tb6@enews2.newsguy.com>, healyzh@aracnet.com writes: > > N > > What is your problem with Perl?  It depends on the person writing the codeI > > as to if it's good or bad, but the same can be said of just about any  > > language out there.     M > If that is your impression, you have not been learning the right languages. H > Ada is _strongly_ biased to make certain programming errors difficult.  I Sadly I've been specifically told that I'm not allowed to use Ada for any D software projects, as no one else could maintain the code.  I almostH mentioned Ada in the above statement, and it's why I said just about anyK language.  I also suspect someone "talented" enough could write bad code in  Ada.   		Zane   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2005 14:13:23 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: Vamp Hacked! 3 Message-ID: <7gWeK$Aw3rQb@eisner.encompasserve.org>   H In article <dieb0u024ra@enews4.newsguy.com>, healyzh@aracnet.com writes:0 > Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@spamcop.net> wrote:K >> In article <dhuusu01tb6@enews2.newsguy.com>, healyzh@aracnet.com writes:  >> >  O >> > What is your problem with Perl?  It depends on the person writing the code J >> > as to if it's good or bad, but the same can be said of just about any >> > language out there.   > N >> If that is your impression, you have not been learning the right languages.I >> Ada is _strongly_ biased to make certain programming errors difficult.  > K > Sadly I've been specifically told that I'm not allowed to use Ada for any < > software projects, as no one else could maintain the code.  A Of all the languages I have used, Ada is _least_ likely to let an @ careless edit pass the "does it still compile" test.  To me that@ makes the program much _more_ maintainable by someone who is not familiar with it.   F But I have experience maintaining software products in other languagesJ where the build procedure did _not_ consider all warnings from the compileF to be a showstopper.  They went ahead and linked it anyway because theE shop had "acceptable errors" at build time.  That is not the Ada way.   G > I also suspect someone "talented" enough could write bad code in Ada.   ? Ada, Pascal, Eiffel and other languages that tend toward strong % typing will detect careless mistakes.   B In any language one can make a logic error.  For the most rigorousD languages that would be writing flawed specifications which are then= automatically used to prove the code is compatibly flawed :-)    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2005 15:42:50 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) % Subject: Re: VMS logo feedback needed 3 Message-ID: <Wrg2ZQg4vocS@eisner.encompasserve.org>   i In article <1128965482.809984.301510@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Galen" <gltackett@gmail.com> writes:  > > > What about having an unfortunate penguin in the shark's maw? >   <    I'd raher see a flying window smashed between it's teeth.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:49:18 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> % Subject: Re: VMS logo feedback needed , Message-ID: <434AD3CB.4BD5BFB1@teksavvy.com>   Kenneth Farmer wrote: L > BTW, I'm not familar with vectorizing and all that graphic talk.  I assumeL > when it's vectorized the size can be changed and the image still looks the > same?     	 Correct.    G For 3d scenes, the objects may be vectorised, but you need to render it H to a bitmap to get the full effects. And you need to specify the size ofD the bitmap. The software then calculates what each indifvidual pixelA needs to be based on all objects and lighting and location of the > camera.  So it is more complex than something like freehand orE illustrator which is pure vector in 2d space and far more explicit in   terms of what needs to be drawn.  A So in this case, to get a good 3d look, I need to generate bitmap G images. The good news is that because the objects are vectorised in the D software, I can easily scale it and then generate a larger bitmap if; needed. (it just takes far more time and memory to produce.    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:53:51 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk? Subject: Re: Why did VMS users go along with the itanium farce? ) Message-ID: <die9rf$ct4$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>   V In article <3qvf10Fgk47hU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:* >In article <didv3t$93h$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>," >	david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes:f >> In article <NvwskviolK5n@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:M >>>In article <didppl$7jb$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes:  >>> S >>>> How different is the structure of a VMS device driver from a Unix/Linux device 
 >>>> driver ?  >>> 6 >>>What makes you think they would be at all similar ? >>> F >>>We have had people come to this newsgroup with backgrounds in otherK >>>operating systems who think drivers are best done as user mode programs.  >>  N >> Although I have 20 years experience of managing and programming VMS systemsM >> I've never had occasion to investigate Device Drivers hence the reason for K >> enquiring as to whether the NDISwrapper route to getting Windows drivers 6 >> working on Linux could be adapted for use with VMS. >>   > D >Well, considering that the NDIS Drivers are all x86 and VMS doesn't' >run on x86, my guess would be no.  :-)  >   H Which is why I mentioned that I wasn't sure whether this only worked on  Linux running on x86/x86-64.  L However if that is the "only" problem then it suggests that a port of VMS toL x86-64 might have benefits from the possibilty of utilising windows drivers  for certain applications.     H However I'm still not sure that this restriction is actually true since ? there seem to be rpms for ndiswrapper for sparc, alpha, ppc etc    see for instance  [ http://rpmfind.net/linux/RPM/cooker/cooker/sparc/media/main/ndiswrapper-1.2-2mdk.sparc.html    and   _ http://rpmfind.net/linux/RPM/cooker/cooker/sparc64/media/main/ndiswrapper-1.2-2mdk.sparc64.html    and   \ http://rpmfind.net/linux/RPM/cooker/cooker/alpha/media/main/ndiswrapper-0.12-1mdk.alpha.html   and   W http://rpmfind.net/linux/RPM/cooker/cooker/ppc/media/main/ndiswrapper-1.2-3mdk.ppc.html         
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University     >bill  >  >-- K >Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves E >bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.  >University of Scranton   | B >Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>      ------------------------------   Date: 10 Oct 2005 18:33:45 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)? Subject: Re: Why did VMS users go along with the itanium farce? + Message-ID: <3qvqg9Fgmj4oU2@individual.net>   ) In article <die9rf$ct4$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, ! 	david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes: X > In article <3qvf10Fgk47hU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:+ >>In article <didv3t$93h$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, # >>	david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes: g >>> In article <NvwskviolK5n@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: N >>>>In article <didppl$7jb$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes: >>>>T >>>>> How different is the structure of a VMS device driver from a Unix/Linux device >>>>> driver ? >>>>7 >>>>What makes you think they would be at all similar ?  >>>>G >>>>We have had people come to this newsgroup with backgrounds in other L >>>>operating systems who think drivers are best done as user mode programs. >>> O >>> Although I have 20 years experience of managing and programming VMS systems N >>> I've never had occasion to investigate Device Drivers hence the reason forL >>> enquiring as to whether the NDISwrapper route to getting Windows drivers7 >>> working on Linux could be adapted for use with VMS.  >>>  >>E >>Well, considering that the NDIS Drivers are all x86 and VMS doesn't ( >>run on x86, my guess would be no.  :-) >> > J > Which is why I mentioned that I wasn't sure whether this only worked on  > Linux running on x86/x86-64. > N > However if that is the "only" problem then it suggests that a port of VMS toN > x86-64 might have benefits from the possibilty of utilising windows drivers  > for certain applications.  >  > J > However I'm still not sure that this restriction is actually true since A > there seem to be rpms for ndiswrapper for sparc, alpha, ppc etc  >  > see for instance > ] > http://rpmfind.net/linux/RPM/cooker/cooker/sparc/media/main/ndiswrapper-1.2-2mdk.sparc.html  >  > and  > a > http://rpmfind.net/linux/RPM/cooker/cooker/sparc64/media/main/ndiswrapper-1.2-2mdk.sparc64.html  >  > and  > ^ > http://rpmfind.net/linux/RPM/cooker/cooker/alpha/media/main/ndiswrapper-0.12-1mdk.alpha.html >  > and  > Y > http://rpmfind.net/linux/RPM/cooker/cooker/ppc/media/main/ndiswrapper-1.2-3mdk.ppc.html  >   B From The NDIS Developer's Reference located at http:/www.ndis.com:A      "Current NDIS versions used by Windows For Workgroups (WFW), A       Windows 9X Windows NT, Windows 2000, Windows XP and Windows <       Server 2003 are Microsoft proprietary specifications."  E Still think there are NDIS drivers for anything other than x86?  Just C because the wrappers compile doesn't mean they have any real value.   7 And then we have this in the installation instructions: E    "you need to download appropriate Windows XP driver for your card"   : Any idea where I would download a Sparc Windows XP driver?  : You can't believe everything you see on the INTERNET.  :-)   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2005 15:43:51 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ? Subject: Re: Why did VMS users go along with the itanium farce? 3 Message-ID: <$ImO749qQAGU@eisner.encompasserve.org>   J In article <didppl$7jb$1@news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes: > P > How different is the structure of a VMS device driver from a Unix/Linux device
 > driver ?      Very.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:14:57 +0200 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>: Subject: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?< Message-ID: <434aaf9c$0$90349$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>   Main, Kerry wrote:G > My understanding (hence, not official) is that since Microsoft COM is F > ancient history i.e. legacy, (Microsoft statement), it does not make4 > much sense to port those legacy pieces to Itanium.  , .NET Enterprise Services still rely on COM+.  < No COM+ => no 2 phase commit, no components with declarative transactions etc. in .NET !    Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:16:56 +0200 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>: Subject: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?< Message-ID: <434ab012$0$90349$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>   Main, Kerry wrote:E > Instead, OpenVMS is focussing on improved J2EE and .Net integration  > technologies.   2 J2EE seems a much better fit for VMS than .NET ...   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:25:34 +0200 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>: Subject: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?< Message-ID: <434ab219$0$90385$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:> > In article <434aafd9$0$90349$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>,( > 	Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes:5 >>If it runs on Windows, Linux and *BSD, then porting  >>to VMS should be possible. >> >>(and Mono includes C#) > D > Unless, of course, it makes extensive use of the fork() call.  :-)  / The most interesting parts should have any need  to start a new process.   5 Is VMS'es fork less Unix compatible than Windows'es ?    Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:15:59 +0200 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>: Subject: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?< Message-ID: <434aafd9$0$90349$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>   healyzh@aracnet.com wrote:( > Main, Kerry <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote:; > I don't suppose that ".Net integration" might include C#?   0 It should actually not be that hard to port Mono to VMS.   3 If it runs on Windows, Linux and *BSD, then porting  to VMS should be possible.   (and Mono includes C#)   Arne   ------------------------------   Date: 10 Oct 2005 18:37:53 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon): Subject: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?+ Message-ID: <3qvqo1Fgmj4oU3@individual.net>   < In article <434ab219$0$90385$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>,& 	Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:? >> In article <434aafd9$0$90349$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>, ) >> 	Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes: 6 >>>If it runs on Windows, Linux and *BSD, then porting >>>to VMS should be possible.  >>>  >>>(and Mono includes C#)  >>  E >> Unless, of course, it makes extensive use of the fork() call.  :-)  > 1 > The most interesting parts should have any need  > to start a new process.  > 7 > Is VMS'es fork less Unix compatible than Windows'es ?   @ I was under the impression that VMS didn't have a true fork() at@ all, thus the big problem porting most OpenSource Unix software.@ In the Windows world, fork(0 has been around dince the MSDOS/MSC days.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 10 Oct 2005 18:18:30 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon): Subject: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?+ Message-ID: <3qvpjmFgmj4oU1@individual.net>   < In article <434aafd9$0$90349$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>,& 	Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes: > healyzh@aracnet.com wrote:) >> Main, Kerry <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote: < >> I don't suppose that ".Net integration" might include C#? > 2 > It should actually not be that hard to port Mono	 > to VMS.  > 5 > If it runs on Windows, Linux and *BSD, then porting  > to VMS should be possible. >  > (and Mono includes C#)  B Unless, of course, it makes extensive use of the fork() call.  :-)   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:58:00 +0200 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>: Subject: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?< Message-ID: <434ab9b3$0$90389$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>   Arne Vajhj wrote:1 > The most interesting parts should have any need  > to start a new process.    *should not*   :-)    Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 20:58:54 +0200 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>: Subject: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?< Message-ID: <434ab9e8$0$90389$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:B > I was under the impression that VMS didn't have a true fork() atB > all, thus the big problem porting most OpenSource Unix software.B > In the Windows world, fork(0 has been around dince the MSDOS/MSC > days.   - My impression is that fork is a real Unixism.   * But if Windows can have a fork I think VMS can have a fork.   Arne   ------------------------------   Date: 10 Oct 2005 19:38:30 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon): Subject: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?+ Message-ID: <3qvu9lFh0dovU1@individual.net>   < In article <434ab9e8$0$90389$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>,& 	Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:C >> I was under the impression that VMS didn't have a true fork() at C >> all, thus the big problem porting most OpenSource Unix software. C >> In the Windows world, fork(0 has been around dince the MSDOS/MSC  >> days. > / > My impression is that fork is a real Unixism.  > , > But if Windows can have a fork I think VMS > can have a fork.  C There is no doubt that VMS "can" have a fork().  But it doesn't and A that is probably the biggest show-stopper from porting OpenSource C stuff.  Will it?  Probably, eventually.  But I would bet it's a lot A more work than many people here think as it does some things that 6 very likely rub the VMS engineers the wrong way!!  :-)   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:15:57 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> : Subject: RE: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB70C21D@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----1 > From: Arne Vajh=F8j [mailto:arne@vajhoej.dk]=20   > Sent: October 10, 2005 2:15 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com < > Subject: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ? >=20 > Main, Kerry wrote:; > > My understanding (hence, not official) is that since=20  > Microsoft COM isH > > ancient history i.e. legacy, (Microsoft statement), it does not make6 > > much sense to port those legacy pieces to Itanium. >=20. > .NET Enterprise Services still rely on COM+. >=20@ > No COM+ =3D> no 2 phase commit, no components with declarative > transactions etc. in .NET !  >=20 > Arne >=20   Arne,   J As it has been described to me, OpenVMS does not support COM+ today even =F on Alpha, only COM. COM+ is a superset of COM which has subsequently = also been replaced by .Net.   J There are other technologies that will do 2PC with OpenVMS, but we would => need to better understand the requirements before making any = suggestions.   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 22:44:33 +0200 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>: Subject: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?< Message-ID: <434ad2ab$0$90448$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>   Main, Kerry wrote:E > As it has been described to me, OpenVMS does not support COM+ today ?  > even on Alpha, only COM. COM+ is a superset of COM which has +  > subsequently also been replaced by .Net.    .NET has not replaced COM+.   $ .NET has put a layer on top of COM+.   To quote from .NET 2.0 docs:  ? #The System.EnterpriseServices namespace provides an important  F #infrastructure for enterprise applications. COM+ provides a services I #architecture for component programming models deployed in an enterprise  F #environment. This namespace provides.NET objects with access to COM+ I #services making the.NET Framework objects more practical for enterprise   #applications.  6 I have never used VMS COM. And I suspect that very few other people have.  6 I am not in any way complaining over that COM is being removed from VMS.   , I am just pointing out that COM+ is not dead2 with .NET - it has just got a new colour of paint.  < > There are other technologies that will do 2PC with OpenVMS  9 COM+ is as far as I know a very good transaction monitor.   3 But on VMS then BEA Tuxedo would probably be a more  natural choice.   2 (and if we talk J2EE it comes with the app server)   Arne   ------------------------------   Date: 10 Oct 2005 20:33:32 GMT$ From: "Doc." <Doc@openvms-rocks.com>: Subject: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?7 Message-ID: <Xns96EBE57CB9898DCovmsrox@212.100.160.126>   ? bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in news:3qvu9lFh0dovU1  @individual.net:  > > In article <434ab9e8$0$90389$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk>,, >      Arne Vajhj <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes: >> Bill Gunshannon wrote: D >>> I was under the impression that VMS didn't have a true fork() atD >>> all, thus the big problem porting most OpenSource Unix software.D >>> In the Windows world, fork(0 has been around dince the MSDOS/MSC	 >>> days.  >>  0 >> My impression is that fork is a real Unixism. >>  - >> But if Windows can have a fork I think VMS  >> can have a fork.  > E > There is no doubt that VMS "can" have a fork().  But it doesn't and C > that is probably the biggest show-stopper from porting OpenSource E > stuff.  Will it?  Probably, eventually.  But I would bet it's a lot C > more work than many people here think as it does some things that 8 > very likely rub the VMS engineers the wrong way!!  :-)  J Those who have been following the issue will have seen answers similar to G the one Hoff has already posted in this thread.  My "scratching of the  E surface" on this problem has given me the impression that fork() was  G originally a copy to swap and clone the process operation, and I can't  F even begin to imagine the security headaches trying to implement that  correctly in VMS would give.  @ I think the correct engineering terminology is that this is "An  Interesting Problem." :-)      Doc.   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2005 16:00:36 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) : Subject: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?3 Message-ID: <55M0$ybbihfy@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ^ In article <Xns96EBE57CB9898DCovmsrox@212.100.160.126>, "Doc." <Doc@openvms-rocks.com> writes: > L > Those who have been following the issue will have seen answers similar to 2 > the one Hoff has already posted in this thread.   D    I actually had the chance to discuss this with a VMS Engineer oneA    day.  It's not cloning the memory map that's a problem, anyone C    can do that.  It's assumptions built into the I/O subsystem that     get to be painfull.  I    Remember fork() children inherit parent device descriptors, everything ;    on UNIX is opened shared (but you can explicitly ask for C    synchronization), and nothing on VMS is opened shared unless you     explicitly ask for it.   5    On UNIX and VMS there are exceptions to the above.   ,    And there are no doubt other assumptions.   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Oct 2005 17:08:27 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) : Subject: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?3 Message-ID: <SE7OOv+x5Wsk@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <3qvu9lFh0dovU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  E > There is no doubt that VMS "can" have a fork().  But it doesn't and C > that is probably the biggest show-stopper from porting OpenSource E > stuff.  Will it?  Probably, eventually.  But I would bet it's a lot C > more work than many people here think as it does some things that 8 > very likely rub the VMS engineers the wrong way!!  :-)  D And security folks as well.  It might be another one of those thingsE where you have to have a particular bit in the SECURITY_POLICY system B parameter set or cleared.  As a result it might not be possible to3 presume that fork() would work at _every_ VMS site.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 19:19:03 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>: Subject: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?+ Message-ID: <434B04F7.61A39693@comcast.net>    Arne!     Glad to see you're still around!  
 All the best!    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Oct 2005 00:22:24 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com : Subject: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?, Message-ID: <dif0k002mtf@enews4.newsguy.com>  & Main, Kerry <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote:* > > Main, Kerry <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote:I > > > Instead, OpenVMS is focussing on improved J2EE and .Net integration  > > > technologies.  > > = > > I don't suppose that ".Net integration" might include C#?  > >  > >               Zane  J > Not sure if I understand your question, but with C# you can generate webE > services modules on Windows which can easily integrate with OpenVMS  > developed web services.   K Actually I was wondering if this meant we'd have C# running on OpenVMS.  In I other words an implementation of the Common Language Infrastructure (CLI)  Virtual Machine.   		Zane   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Oct 2005 00:26:45 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com : Subject: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?, Message-ID: <dif0s512mtf@enews4.newsguy.com>  ! Arne Vaj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:  > healyzh@aracnet.com wrote:* > > Main, Kerry <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote:= > > I don't suppose that ".Net integration" might include C#?   2 > It should actually not be that hard to port Mono	 > to VMS.   5 > If it runs on Windows, Linux and *BSD, then porting  > to VMS should be possible.   > (and Mono includes C#)  H I've not had time to look at what would be required to port Mono to VMS,L however, I suspect it would be easier to try to port "DotGNU Portable .NET".H http://www.dotgnu.org/pnet.html  I believe Mono has a fair amount of CPUG specific code (though I might be wrong about this), while Portable .NET  doesn't.  G Of course the question might be, is anything like this needed.  I don't 6 know, but I for one wouldn't mind having it available.   		Zane   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 21:25:56 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> : Subject: RE: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB70C222@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----; > From: healyzh@aracnet.com [mailto:healyzh@aracnet.com]=20   > Sent: October 10, 2005 8:22 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com < > Subject: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ? >=20( > Main, Kerry <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote:, > > > Main, Kerry <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote:B > > > > Instead, OpenVMS is focussing on improved J2EE and .Net=20
 > integration  > > > > technologies.  > > >=20? > > > I don't suppose that ".Net integration" might include C#?  > > >=20 > > >               Zane >=20B > > Not sure if I understand your question, but with C# you can=20 > generate webG > > services modules on Windows which can easily integrate with OpenVMS  > > developed web services.  >=20@ > Actually I was wondering if this meant we'd have C# running=20 > on OpenVMS.  In 9 > other words an implementation of the Common Language=20  > Infrastructure (CLI) > Virtual Machine. >=20 > 		Zane >=20 >=20  0 That sounds to me like a question for Microsoft.   :-)   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.567 ************************