1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 12 Oct 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 569       Contents:8 Re: ALL printers are electronic thieves (Was just Epson)& Anyone have a firefox (6520) keyboard?* Re: Anyone have a firefox (6520) keyboard?* Re: Anyone have a firefox (6520) keyboard?, Compuware Announcement - OpenVMS and Itanium* Re: Epson printers are electronic theieves* Re: Epson printers are electronic theieves/ Re: Finding directory file of current directory C Re: fork() (Was: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?) C Re: fork() (Was: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?) / Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today / Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today / Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today / Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today / Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today / Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today " Re: Migrating from Multinet to UCX" Re: Migrating from Multinet to UCX" Re: Migrating from Multinet to UCX" Re: Migrating from Multinet to UCX" Re: Migrating from Multinet to UCX" Re: Migrating from Multinet to UCX" Re: Migrating from Multinet to UCX" Re: Migrating from Multinet to UCX" Re: Migrating from Multinet to UCXF Re: ODS-5 directory and header definitions, where? Was: [OT] - dealingP Re: ODS-5 directory and header definitions, where? Was: [OT] - dealing with ;327 Re: Samba-3 for OpenVMS  Re: Samba-3 for OpenVMS  Re: Samba-3 for OpenVMS ) Re: TCPIP V5.4, SMTP & non-existant users ) Re: TCPIP V5.4, SMTP & non-existant users ) Re: TCPIP V5.4, SMTP & non-existant users ) Re: TCPIP V5.4, SMTP & non-existant users ) Re: TCPIP V5.4, SMTP & non-existant users & Re: TCPware starts up, then shuts down Re: VMS logo feedback needed6 Re: Why did VMS users go along with the itanium farce?1 Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ? 1 Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?  Re: __PROBER(),   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 20:37:14 GMT & From: Gary Tait <classicsat@yahoo.com>A Subject: Re: ALL printers are electronic thieves (Was just Epson) ; Message-ID: <Xns96ECA9198A7C2wonkynillmailnil@142.77.1.194>   > "George E. Cawthon" <GeorgeC-Boise@worldnet.att.net> wrote in ? news:lcy2f.128129$qY1.56561@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:   $ > did deduct the cost of the hitect 5 > container (cartridge), without which the ink would  4 > be useless?   None of the other liquids come in a 3 > high tech container requiring exacting processes  0 > to manufacture. As an alternative include the * > price of a new car to use the gasoline.) >  > G To be fair tohugh, Gasoline takes an expensive machine to dispense and  G meter, considering its flammable nature. Plus thingd like milk require   refrigeration.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2005 16:35:23 -0700 From: jacob.ritorto@gmail.com / Subject: Anyone have a firefox (6520) keyboard? C Message-ID: <1129073723.378644.311000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   C I have an old VAX 6250 that seems to be booting and operable, but I G have no keyboard for it.  Iirc, it takes a keyboard with a db15 plug or E something like that.  Just wanted to fire it up and see if I remember F VMS.  If you have one, please reply to jacob.ritorto@gmail.com.  Maybe? we can work something out for a trade..  Got lotsa pdp11 stuff.    thanks   jake   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2005 17:39:22 -0700 From: jacob.ritorto@gmail.com 3 Subject: Re: Anyone have a firefox (6520) keyboard? B Message-ID: <1129077562.854949.60630@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>  @ Shoot, mistake in above post:  It's a Vax Station 3520.  Has theC graphics board, ethernet, etc.  The onboard keyboard connector is a 9 db15 male and requires db15 female plug on keyboard wire.    thanks in advance.   jake   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 02:31:45 GMT % From: Roger Ivie <rivie@ridgenet.net> 3 Subject: Re: Anyone have a firefox (6520) keyboard? 3 Message-ID: <slrndkotch.lm9.rivie@Stench.no.domain>   G On 2005-10-12, jacob.ritorto@gmail.com <jacob.ritorto@gmail.com> wrote: B > Shoot, mistake in above post:  It's a Vax Station 3520.  Has theE > graphics board, ethernet, etc.  The onboard keyboard connector is a ; > db15 male and requires db15 female plug on keyboard wire.   E The keyboard actually plugs into a dongle connected to the cable that J attaches to the DB15. It uses the same keyboards as the other VAXstations, the LK201 and friends.  D What you need is a cable. Several VAXstations used the DB15s, so youF might be able to use one for another model. However, I am aware of twoE different pinouts: the MicroVAX 2000 used a different pinout than the  4000/90, for example.  --  
 Roger Ivie rivie@ridgenet.net http://anachronda.webhop.org/  -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- 
 Version: 3.12 H GCS/P d- s:+++ a+ C++ UB--(++++) !P L- !E W++ N++ o-- K w O- M+ V+++ PS+? PE++ Y+ PGP t+ 5+ X-- R tv++ b++ DI+++ D+ G e++ h--- r+++ z+++   ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 22:45:35 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> 5 Subject: Compuware Announcement - OpenVMS and Itanium R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB70C2B5@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   All,  F I don't recall this announcement from June being posted here, but justA in case - readers of this list might be interested in another ISV   announcement on OpenVMS Itanium:  > http://www.compuware.com/pressroom/news/2005/4679_eng_html.htmF "Compuware Extends Support for Enterprise Applications on HP Integrity Server Family"  C "DETROIT--June 6, 2005--Compuware Corporation (NASDAQ: CPWR), an HP A partner, today announced enhancements to Compuware Uniface. These F enhancements will enable IT organizations to rapidly deploy enterpriseH applications on HP Integrity servers, based on the Intel(r) Itanium(r) 2E processor, running the OpenVMS operating system. This solution, which F enables organizations to deploy their mission-critical applications onB the latest HP hardware with zero source code changes, demonstratesG Compuware's continued commitment to supporting HP and the Intel Itanium  2 microarchitecture.=20   @ "Compuware, with decades of experience in enterprise application@ development, has proven its commitment to supporting the OpenVMSG platform with the support of the Itanium 2-based HP Integrity servers," D said Adrian Gosbell, Uniface Product Manager for Compuware. "UnifaceH gives customers the ability to deploy mission critical applications withE the reassurance that their application investments are transparent to ) changes in the deployment technology."=20   H OpenVMS, with 10 million users, is a proven operating system for missionA critical, enterprise applications. It features high-availability, F scalability, security, cluster technology and enhanced flexibility for large-scale SMP systems. "   [snip..]  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 23:45:16 +0200 3 From: "Dr. Dweeb" <NOSPAM_5msg0h202@sneakemail.com> 3 Subject: Re: Epson printers are electronic theieves = Message-ID: <434c326b$0$78286$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>    Marky wrote:@ > "Dr. Dweeb" <NOSPAM_5msg0h202@sneakemail.com> wrote in message9 > news:43499285$0$78279$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk...  >> Dr. Dweeb wrote:  >>> Gentlemen, >>> D >>> I have reached the conclusion that the Epson corporation is bothE >>> incompetant and corrupt.  Someone should sue their scrawny little 
 >>> asses.. >>> I have an RX500 - a high end combi-device. >>> D >>> Today, the reading on my black ink cartridge hit zero, while the >>> other 5 read between 23-28% @ >>> I replaced the black cartridge with a 3rd party product from
 >>> Gold-Ink.  >>> F >>> After installation the printer informed me that it was loading the >>> ink.% >>> I decided to print the test page.  >>>  >>> Failure - and worse. >>> A >>> 1: "The ink cartridge is different from Epson blah blah blah" G >>> message.  This will now appear EVERY time I try to print !!!!!!!!!! 4 >>> 2: The device reset all 5 other cartridges to 0%H >>> 3: The device has the black cartridge now pegged at 83%, despite not" >>> yet having printed 1 character >>> F >>> Because the other 5 cartridges now MUST be replaced I still cannotH >>> print and I am REALLY pissed off.  Check how much 6 cartridges (evenE >>> of alternative branbd) ink costs - this is an expensive exercise.  >>> D >>> The audacity of these assholes to pull this sort of stunt amazesD >>> me. It is both amoral and illegal.  There is no technical reason >>> for what@ >>> has happenned to me - it is just punishment for installing aE >>> non-Epson cartridge - something I believe is my commercial right.  >>> D >>> I mean, how much money do I have to spend on cartridges before ID >>> give up ? Is an ERROR message at EVERY print job even marginally >>> apprpriate ?# >>> Where do I get my money back ??  >>> 
 >>> Dr. Dweeb  >> >> Guys, >>A >> The printer (an RX600 by the way, a typo before) is brand new. 4 >> This is the first attempt to change a cartridge ! >>F >> Also, Epson sells different models in different markets and the inkG >> is not interchangeable.  Generally speaking, for example, you cannot B >> buy RX600 ink in say, Thailand - since the model does not exist@ >> there.  A geek in a BKK ink shop said he did not think a ThaiG >> resetter would work, since the Thai cartridges were a different part G >> number with a different chip.  I took his word, though in retrospect 0 >> I should have paid the 10 bucks just in case. >>A >> Also, AFAICS that % full idea is a piece of crap.  It is in no > >> related to the amount of ink in the cartridge, just on someA >> arbitrary curve based on the number of pages through the loop.  >>- >> All in all, a pretty depressing situation.  >>: >> It sure printed and scanned nice for a while though :-( > F > Have you tried changing the other ink cartridges with Epson and then8 > swapping the third party carts back in? Sometimes this! > works...sometimes it doesn't...   ! The other ones ARE original Epson    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 23:50:39 +0200 3 From: "Dr. Dweeb" <NOSPAM_5msg0h202@sneakemail.com> 3 Subject: Re: Epson printers are electronic theieves = Message-ID: <434c33af$0$78284$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>    Dave Froble wrote: > Dr. Dweeb wrote:
 >> Gentlemen,  >>C >> I have reached the conclusion that the Epson corporation is both D >> incompetant and corrupt.  Someone should sue their scrawny little4 >> asses. I have an RX500 - a high end combi-device. >>C >> Today, the reading on my black ink cartridge hit zero, while the  >> other 5 read between 23-28%? >> I replaced the black cartridge with a 3rd party product from L >> Gold-Ink. After installation the printer informed me that it was loading  >> the) >> ink. I decided to print the test page.  >> >> Failure - and worse.  >>@ >> 1: "The ink cartridge is different from Epson blah blah blah"F >> message.  This will now appear EVERY time I try to print !!!!!!!!!!3 >> 2: The device reset all 5 other cartridges to 0% G >> 3: The device has the black cartridge now pegged at 83%, despite not ! >> yet having printed 1 character  >>E >> Because the other 5 cartridges now MUST be replaced I still cannot G >> print and I am REALLY pissed off.  Check how much 6 cartridges (even D >> of alternative branbd) ink costs - this is an expensive exercise. >>G >> The audacity of these assholes to pull this sort of stunt amazes me. C >> It is both amoral and illegal.  There is no technical reason for D >> what has happenned to me - it is just punishment for installing aD >> non-Epson cartridge - something I believe is my commercial right. >>C >> I mean, how much money do I have to spend on cartridges before I C >> give up ? Is an ERROR message at EVERY print job even marginally / >> apprpriate ? Where do I get my money back ??  >> >> Dr. Dweeb > G > Maybe your next printer should ba a laser printer, not an inkjet.  If D > you need color, such exist.  Myself, I will never purchase another- > inkjet type printer.  (Or take a free one.)  > H > When selecting a printer, be sure to check out the cost of replacementG > parts, toner, drum, and such.  Also check out the tech support.  Stay G > away from the companys where you have to pay to talk to tech support.  > C > The above suggestions were obtained through trial and much error. = > Printer companies are at the top of my permanant s**t list.    Guys,   G This is not about money.  I spend twice as much as the printer cost on  H airfares every week.  This is a matter of principle - I just hate being  ripped off.   K And again,  the printer performed exactly as it should until this incident  2 and I was happy with it as it met my requirements.   Dweeb    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2005 12:28:58 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>8 Subject: Re: Finding directory file of current directoryB Message-ID: <1129058937.975014.92520@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   David J Dachtera wrote:  > Jilly wrote:? > > "David Jones" <JONESD@ecr6.ohio-state.edu> wrote in message  [...]  > > 7 > > Good ideas.  I'll log them on our internal systems.  >  > Then, I'll add my $0.02... >  > How 'bout adding:  > 6 > $ X = F$PARSE( "SYS$STARTUP:SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM",,,, -  > 		"NO_TRANSLATE,SYNTAX_ONLY" ) > J > ...so the DIRECTORY item would return a null string, and the DEVICE itemJ > would return "SYS$STARTUP:" instead of "SYS$SYSROOT:" for the DEVICE andF > "[SYS$STARTUP]" for the DIRECTORY (SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM usually doesn't- > live there, though I suppose its possible).      David,  	 Try this:   > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$PARSE("0::SYS$STARTUP:SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM")! 0::SYS$STARTUP:SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM;   G NOTE 1: You don't need DECnet running to have 0:: work, at least not in  this sense.   = NOTE 2: This doesn't check for the existence of the specified D directory, but you can do that in a separate call without the "0::".   [...]    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2005 16:28:00 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) L Subject: Re: fork() (Was: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?)3 Message-ID: <ZUFmPpedoXto@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <434B8ACE.28696.2827C9F@localhost>, "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com> writes:  > G > In order for it to *really* work, the mmap data would have to be set  G > up so there's an automatic memory barrier (on Alpha, memory fence on  A > Itanium), or the updates between processes aren't visible in a  : > deterministic fashion.  Wonder how *nixes handle that...  D    I think the guys who ported OSF/1 to Alpha were well aware of the    memory barrier instruction.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 19:19:34 -0400 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>L Subject: Re: fork() (Was: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?). Message-ID: <434C1046.16722.48BD16F@localhost>  + On 11 Oct 2005 at 16:28, Bob Koehler wrote: C > I think the guys who ported OSF/1 to Alpha were well aware of the  > memory barrier instruction.   E But most of the user-mode code I see just assumes that global memory  B is visible automatically.  Is there something that does MB's on a  periodic basis?   
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com) "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option"    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 00:22:03 +0200 3 From: "Dr. Dweeb" <NOSPAM_5msg0h202@sneakemail.com> 8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today= Message-ID: <434c3b0b$0$78284$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Dave Froble wrote:E >> So, if you hire more people when your business grows, what are you ! >> saying when you let people go?  > 8 > You don't brag about it. You do it quietly and slowly. >  > H > Corporations must not only listen to Wall Street Casino analysts. TheyE > must be consious of their social ties in the countries in which the 
 > operate. > D > HP announcing job cuts in Germany in the middle of an election was > seen> > as a very inept faux-pax or HP getting involved politically. >   / It was pretty crude - you're right on there JF.   C > Is HP jeoperdizing its growth potential outside the USA with such  > inept news announcements ?     ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 20:14:34 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today+ Message-ID: <434C637A.B51A9159@comcast.net>    Z wrote: >  > Lurker wrote: % > >>Just what has become of Moulinex?  > / > > Well, nothing much - it just went bankrupt.  > 2 > Delphi is about to join them, thanks to the UAW.  F I doubt UAW had anything to do with it. Blame management first for notH being able to "make it work". Other companies do, they should have, too.  3 > Another evil corporation slayed by a labor union!   F Did you have a bad experience with UAW or something? You've got a real burr up your ass about them!   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 20:16:22 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today+ Message-ID: <434C63E6.E5385F70@comcast.net>    S wrote: >  > Lurker wrote: 6 > > in any case, why are the unions allowed to disrupt > > other people's lives?  > D > Now this one is quite simple: because the bus drivers are not yourI > slaves. They are people as well which seem to need more than just being $ > fed and watered like house plants.  
 Amen, bro!   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 20:52:59 -0700  From: Z <Z@no.spam> 8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today) Message-ID: <vM%2f.8871$Zf.8807@fe05.lga>    JF Mezei wrote: I > This one is a bit different. Delphi used to be GM. GM spun it off a few H > years ago (I think 1999). It has struggled since because GM puts priceC > pressure on the products it buys from Delphi, yet Delphi is still E > straddled with the burdens that GM had agreed to back when it owned  > Delphi. (eg: benefits etc).  > J > Car companies and Wall Mart have long hung suppliers by the neck, tryingF > to extract every penny out of suppliers who are not very profitable. > J > In many cases, the drive to be competitive results in large corporationsD > focusing hardships on a fairly focused area of the corporation andI > letting the rest keep their comfortable budgets. Often, it is the wrong J > areas that are asked to make sacrifices and that is simpky because headsH > of the "good" areas manage to convince the CEO that they should not beH > the target of cuts and that the CEO should instead cut budgets of such > and such departments.   H "The average union worker's wage-and-benefit package at Delphi is about " $65 an hour, according to Delphi."  : The *average* UAW wage and benefits package is *$65/hr*?! B _SIXTY_FIVE_DOLLARS_PER_HOUR?! That's all anyone needs to know to  understand the problem.   A ps: Congratulations, UAW, you've killed yet another golden goose.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 20:54:45 -0700  From: Z <Z@no.spam> 8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today( Message-ID: <9O%2f.8872$Zf.236@fe05.lga>   David J Dachtera wrote: H > I doubt UAW had anything to do with it. Blame management first for notJ > being able to "make it work". Other companies do, they should have, too.  H You doubt that Delphi paying UAW monkeys $130 THOUSAND DOLLARS PER YEAR 2 in total compensation had anything to do with it?!   You're joking, right?    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 17:46:55 +1300 $ From: "Lurker" <nowhere@nothing.com>8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today5 Message-ID: <9x03f.17344$iM2.1415944@news.xtra.co.nz>   L "S" <soterroatyahoodotcom> wrote in message news:434b796b$1@news1.ethz.ch... > Lurker wrote: 6 > > in any case, why are the unions allowed to disrupt > > other people's lives?  > D > Now this one is quite simple: because the bus drivers are not yourI > slaves. They are people as well which seem to need more than just being $ > fed and watered like house plants.  ? But neither am I theirs. Would you still maintain your attitude 8 if the water supply to your house was cut off, ambulance. and firefighters refused to respond and so on?  & Here is a [possibly] interesting link:  ) http://www.twu.org/departments/legal.html   , Note that I specifically picked the TWU site+ that can't by any stretch of imagination be $ called anti-union. Yet even it says:  6 "Transit workers are also in a strong position because# of the economic threat of a strike"   2 Note that it's talking about threat. So we are not. talking about some oppressed people but rather+ some people who are in a position to threat  the others.    It also goes on to say:   E "Most states' public employee statutes also include a ban on strikes, D such as New York's Taylor Law, which also mandates strong penalties"  2 So yes, there are cases where strikes are illegal.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 13:44:35 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> + Subject: Re: Migrating from Multinet to UCX 0 Message-ID: <11knu4bak832a1e@corp.supernews.com>   bob@instantwhip.com wrote:6 > TCPWARE wins performance hands down as it still uses > the vms kernel ... >    Same old s**t from boob   F Now really, what is that statement suppost to mean?  Are you claiming E that TCPWare is part of the VMS kernel (a vague term)?  What are you  / trying to say, (which is incorrect regardless).    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 18:29:05 +0000 (UTC) . From: klewis@LUMINA.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis)+ Subject: Re: Migrating from Multinet to UCX . Message-ID: <dih09h$kqp$2@newslocal.mitre.org>   peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes in article <434b9d7c$1@news.langstoeger.at> dated 11 Oct 2005 11:09:48 -0200: a >In article <434B0F82.A815221E@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: F >>That said, I do hope the performance we hope to gain will offset the@ >>increased operating costs we expect as a result of the switch. >  >Performance ?    G I hope you're not using IMAP.  The IMAP server in UCX 5.4 is slooooow.    I Multinet (from distant memory) was better.  The difference is probably in I how they deal with the VMS-IMAP4 conflict of message length.  In VMS it's I easy to get length to the next larger block but hard to get an exact byte J count, which is required by the IMAP4 RFC.  Multinet saves it in a file, I think.  0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2005 11:45:36 -0700 From: bob@instantwhip.com + Subject: Re: Migrating from Multinet to UCX C Message-ID: <1129056336.755793.321420@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>   F well Dave, here are some people who have answered this in the past ...B lets start with Dan an engineer from Process ... remember, its all in the kernel ...      http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/browse_frm/thread/4b7f5a2d9e2ff90b/4f1470d516ace791?q=tcpware+vms+kernel+different&rnum=3#4f1470d516ace791   C But fundamentally, the TCPware kernel is still a different creature  than the MultiNet kernel.         http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/browse_frm/thread/2e3b586900faf94a/3226d6b446b2a5cd?q=tcpware+vms+kernel&rnum=1#3226d6b446b2a5cd    > and people at process G > software today will tell you today how good the vms kernel really is,     G     I'm going to go out on a limb here and speak for myself.  I believe   E     that the VMS kernel is exceptional.  Being connected with the VMS E     group I have been able to see it in source, and read the comments G     of the developers themselves.  VMS is full of foresight and design,   4     something that I like to include in my own code.    / > and how good of a vms ip stack tcpware is ...     B     So this is the opinion of current tcpware engineers about code written E     by past tcpware engineers, and it is this opinion which forms the  basis >     of YOUR statement that a VMS-based kernel is better than a     Unix-based one.       > if your os kernel is that good         And it is --    H > then i imagine any well written app that uses that kernel as its basisH > will outperform similar apps based on other kernels ... this is common > sense, not rocket science!    F     As a general claim, this may have merit.  If the code that you areD     porting is basically algorithm with limited interaction with the
 underlyingG     operating system, does this claim still apply?  I don't believe so.          Common sense?  No comment.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 22:56:50 GMT # From: Beach Runner <bob@nospam.com> + Subject: Re: Migrating from Multinet to UCX < Message-ID: <SqX2f.141837$xl6.77562@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>   Keith A. Lewis wrote:  > peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes in article <434b9d7c$1@news.langstoeger.at> dated 11 Oct 2005 11:09:48 -0200:  > b >>In article <434B0F82.A815221E@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: >>G >>>That said, I do hope the performance we hope to gain will offset the A >>>increased operating costs we expect as a result of the switch.  >> >>Performance ?  >  > I > I hope you're not using IMAP.  The IMAP server in UCX 5.4 is slooooow.   > K > Multinet (from distant memory) was better.  The difference is probably in K > how they deal with the VMS-IMAP4 conflict of message length.  In VMS it's K > easy to get length to the next larger block but hard to get an exact byte L > count, which is required by the IMAP4 RFC.  Multinet saves it in a file, I > think. > 2 > --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org@ > The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.    H It is nice to elevate a problem.   And I can't tell you have many times ! we've seen Multinet on the stack.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 20:26:09 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>+ Subject: Re: Migrating from Multinet to UCX + Message-ID: <434C6631.88BD3FAF@comcast.net>    Javier Henderson wrote:  >  > David J Dachtera wrote: . > > (reposting to the Multinet and VMS groups) > > 
 > > Folks, > > K > > Our site is migrating from Multinet to TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS V5.4 1 > > (I call it simply "UCX" for obvious reasons).  > > E > > Does anyone have any automation for migrating the entire Multinet ' > > configuration for each node to UCX?  > > E > > I'd prefer not to re-invent that wheel if someone already has it.  > >  > F > An excentric wheel called UCX was invented in the dark ages. We wereF > then illuminated with the perfectly round wheel called MultiNet, andD > some of us were fortunate enough to have worked at the company who# > brought you such a great product.  > 4 > Pray tell, why are you going back to the darkness?   1. Scalable kernel1 2. Buffered I/O (reduces interrupt service times)   ! No valid reason other than those.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 20:49:29 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>+ Subject: Re: Migrating from Multinet to UCX + Message-ID: <434C6BA8.7BB837E6@comcast.net>    Bob Blum wrote:  > G > Gee, I see no reason not to migrate away from Multinet... to TCPware. $ > <Cheshire cat grin fully implied>. > G > Seriously, though, I am not aware of any automatic method, unless (as G > you are asking) someone has already done this before. Since it is not H > a trivial matter, and I would hope an infrequent event, chances are noH > one has taken the time to write an automatic or semi-automatic method. > . > That being said, I would ask some questions: > H >         * What features are you currently using in Multinet (services,- >           etc.) that are duplicated in UCX?   = All the "usual suspects" for a site that is not a web host or  mailserver.   F >         * What features are you currently using in Multinet that are" >           NOT duplicated in UCX?  ( $ MULTINET SHOW/CONNECTIONS/SNMP=a.b.c.d  $ MULTINET SHOW/MIB/SNMP=a.b.c.d  * Very useful in debugging printer problems.  C >         * How complex is your configuration (multiple physical or   / Don't go there. Already got burned by that one.   6 >           pseudo interfaces, complex routing, etc.)?  6 Big dreams for PD's, but nothing fully functional yet.  D >         * What types and quantities of print queues are you using?   SCADS!!! ... all stream queues.   G >         * How familiar are you with managing and configuring Multinet  >           and UCX?  G Enough that I still need dramamine, naprocin and a heavy, blunt object.   7 >         * Is this a single node, or a cluster member?   : Extremely high volume cluster in a healthcare environment.  D On two occasions, we've shown up throughput related bugs in hardware@ (GS160 64-bit PCI riser cards), firmware (HSG) and the DKDRIVER.  ? >         * What other applications use Multinet (like Oracle)?   G Oracle, MQ Series, application middleware and the application front-end  tier.   F > The answers to these should at least give you the direction to go to > perform it manually.  ; Surprisingly little of the above figures into the scenario.   0 So far, MQ Series looks like it works just fine.  2 Opinions are that Oracle should not need a reLINK.  = The biggest non-UCX gripe has been dealing with print queues.   2 > I would suggest going through every subsystem inH > Multinet that you are using, and save the configuration output it intoF > a flat file or document. Then determine the commands in UCX required > to duplicate those settings.  > That's what I'm doing in the automation I've developed so far.  A > The times I've had to do something similar to this, I've used a D > spreadsheet to create a table with multiple columns. For instance,B > have four columns: first one with the Multinet command required;C > second the current Multinet value; third would be the "to-be" UCX F > value; then finally another column with the commands required to setG > that parameter in UCX. I realize this might be challenging, since the B > installs tend to either prompt you for values or be menu driven. > E > One other thing. If you have the disk space available, don't delete H > the Multinet installation. You might be able to just disable it in theC > startup and shutdown command files for the system, then reboot it H > clean, before performing the UCX installation. I haven't installed UCXD > ("TCPIP Services") in a while, and even then it was at least a few" > versions back, like 5.0A or 5.1.  G One thing: edit the MULTINET:REMOVE.COM proc. to only delete the verbs, : nothing else. The UCX V5.x install may choke if you don't.  D > I understand about the management decisions to do things a certainA > way, or use a certain product. That's also part of the reason I E > suggested you don't delete the Multinet installation, so you can go F > back to it if needed, at least giving you a second chance to migrateH > to UCX later. That way it would reduce the overall risk of an extended) > downtime if you have problem migrating.   > The need to have rapid back-out is what led me to my approach.    A *BIG* UCX "gotcha" by the way:  E Under Multinet, you can have interfaces defined that exist but do not F actually have IP connectivity and everything works just fine, sort of:H Multinet will only send outbound traffic over the "primary" interface on1 any subnet (how it determines that is beyond me).   H UCX, on the other hand assumes that it can send outbound traffic via anyB interface on the same subnet as the target IP address. If you haveH interfaces configured in UCX which do not actually have IP connectivity,G you will lose data. (I thought UCX had "broken" DCSC until I got on the , horn with the CSC and figured this one out!)   Another UCX "gotcha":   D UCX uses special usernames for certain services (TCPIP$mumble), likeD DECnet before it (the default DECNET user, usernames associated withF DEFINEd objects, etc.). These seem to be expected to have certain UICsE and be linked to certain Identifiers (RIGHTSLIST). So, automating the H migration is not entirely possible without seriously reverse-engineeringF TCPIP$CONFIG.COM. Time constraints do not allow that this time around.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 20:51:16 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>+ Subject: Re: Migrating from Multinet to UCX + Message-ID: <434C6C13.E6FE9EEB@comcast.net>    Manuel J Norman wrote: > F >     What I did with our VMS cluster (which we no longer have, due toE > an unfortunate - in my opinion - decision of our management) was to G > have two command files, one for bringing up Multinet and one for UCX. F > The SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM contained calls to both of them, with one callE > always commented out (normally the UCX one).  Multinet was used for G > normal running and UCX was usually only used if we had a problem with I > Multinet waiting to be resolved, or for system testing where necessary.  > A >     I would keep the Multinet configuration up to date (more or C > less!), and would only update the UCX one if it became necessary.   = We have vendor-supported considerations which would make that  infeasible.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2005 19:08:54 -0700; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> + Subject: Re: Migrating from Multinet to UCX C Message-ID: <1129082934.411791.286600@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    David J Dachtera wrote:  > Bob Blum wrote:  > > I > > Gee, I see no reason not to migrate away from Multinet... to TCPware. & > > <Cheshire cat grin fully implied>. > > I > > Seriously, though, I am not aware of any automatic method, unless (as I > > you are asking) someone has already done this before. Since it is not J > > a trivial matter, and I would hope an infrequent event, chances are noJ > > one has taken the time to write an automatic or semi-automatic method. > > 0 > > That being said, I would ask some questions: > >  >>A > >         * What other applications use Multinet (like Oracle)?  > I > Oracle, MQ Series, application middleware and the application front-end  > tier.  >   G Unfortunately if you have a network related problem and tell Oracle you C are using anything except TCPIP Services for VMS they will tell you F sorry for your luck.  HP's stack is the only offically supported stack for Oracle.   H > > The answers to these should at least give you the direction to go to > > perform it manually. > = > Surprisingly little of the above figures into the scenario.  > 2 > So far, MQ Series looks like it works just fine. > 4 > Opinions are that Oracle should not need a reLINK. >   E Probably not... Just depends how similar Multinet's and TCPIP's RTL'S   are.  I haven't checked in ages.       John H. Reinhardt    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2005 20:08:14 -0700; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> + Subject: Re: Migrating from Multinet to UCX C Message-ID: <1129086494.795386.198930@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Dave Froble wrote: > bob@instantwhip.com wrote:J > > well Dave, here are some people who have answered this in the past ...F > > lets start with Dan an engineer from Process ... remember, its all > > in the kernel ...  > >  > >  > > http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/browse_frm/thread/4b7f5a2d9e2ff90b/4f1470d516ace791?q=tcpware+vms+kernel+different&rnum=3#4f1470d516ace791  > > G > > But fundamentally, the TCPware kernel is still a different creature  > > than > > the MultiNet kernel. > @ > Ok, he's saying that the internals of MultiNet and TCPWare areE > different.  What does this have to do with the VMS Operating System ( > kernel (which is still to be defined)? >  > > http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/browse_frm/thread/2e3b586900faf94a/3226d6b446b2a5cd?q=tcpware+vms+kernel&rnum=1#3226d6b446b2a5cd  > >  > >  > >>and people at process I > >>software today will tell you today how good the vms kernel really is,  > H > Fine, but what has this to do with the statement you continue to make,  > "TCPWare uses the VMS kernel"? > D > To put things into perspective, any application running on VMS, byI > definition, is using the OS to run the application, thus the VMS kernel G > is used by every application program.  That includes MultiNet, TCPIP,  > UCX, etc.  > K > >     I'm going to go out on a limb here and speak for myself.  I believe  > > I > >     that the VMS kernel is exceptional.  Being connected with the VMS I > >     group I have been able to see it in source, and read the comments K > >     of the developers themselves.  VMS is full of foresight and design,  > > 8 > >     something that I like to include in my own code. > . > And this has what to do with your statement? > 1 > >>and how good of a vms ip stack tcpware is ...  >  > Because it runs under/on VMS?  > F > >     So this is the opinion of current tcpware engineers about code > > written I > >     by past tcpware engineers, and it is this opinion which forms the 	 > > basis B > >     of YOUR statement that a VMS-based kernel is better than a > >     Unix-based one.  > C > You've always refered to the VMS kernel.  Now it appears that the ) > 'kernel' for/of TCPWare is the subject.  > G > I haven't yet written a TCP/IP package, but knowing the task, I don't 0 > think that the use of 'kernel' is appropriate. > " > >>if your os kernel is that good > >  > >  > >  > >     And it is -- > >  > >  > > J > >>then i imagine any well written app that uses that kernel as its basisJ > >>will outperform similar apps based on other kernels ... this is common > >>sense, not rocket science! > E > An OS and a TCP/IP package are two seperate and distinct things.  I ! > doubt they have much in common.  > I > Some of the basic things at the core of an OS include a memory manager, D > a job scheduler, and such.  I don't see a TCP/IP stack having suchB > things.  A TCP/IP stack is just another application the OS runs. > J > >     As a general claim, this may have merit.  If the code that you areH > >     porting is basically algorithm with limited interaction with the > > underlyingK > >     operating system, does this claim still apply?  I don't believe so.  >  > Huh? > " > >     Common sense?  No comment. >  > No sense.  >  > --6 > David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04506 > Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596@ > DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com > 170 Grimplin Road  > Vanderbilt, PA  15486   D Okay, this isn't going to be easy, but let me try.  Just don't shootF the messenger, okay?  First of all, the basic misunderstanding here isD that when Bob is saying the "VMS Kernel" he is NOT talking about theD actual VMS kernel (It's cluttered, but some of the clips do mean theE VMS Kernel, but these are by other people). What I am interpreting he A meas is that TCPware has a kernel that was basically written from B scratch (i.e. not ported from BSD, Tru64, OS/F, etc) using the VMSB run-time library calls therefor using the VMS "kernel" API's.  TheG assumption is that UCX/TCPIP and Multinet having borrowed their kernels C from U*IX have their code calling the standard C library functions, D which, on VMS then call the VMS RTLS, thereby adding a layer of codeE and losing some "crispyness" and perhaps some performance.  That's my C interpretation.  I can see where Bob is coming from but I won't say 2 I'll agree without some hard benchmarking proof.     John H. Reinhardt    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2005 14:32:55 -04003 From: Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> O Subject: Re: ODS-5 directory and header definitions, where? Was: [OT] - dealing . Message-ID: <mddirw3ykdk.fsf@panix5.panix.com>  = koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:   J > In article <1128995203.65afe672fd4d768562a2b0f37db87a63@teranews>, Tim E) > Sneddon <tesneddon@bigpond.com> writes:   C >> RSTS had this syntax too. I'm pretty sure TOPS-10/20 had similar = >> syntax, but you could have sub-directories inside the UFD.   D >    I don't recall any numerical directories on my TOPS-20 systems.  H There is a way to assign a Tops-10 PPN to a Tops-20 directory for use byH certain utility programs, but nothing native pays any attention to them.  J >    Under TOPS-10, you had to logon using your UIC instead of a username.  L Later versions of Tops-10 allow logon with a username--I do it all the time.- (I didn't learn Tops-10 until two years ago.)    --  L Rich Alderson                                       | /"\ ASCII ribbon     |L news@alderson.users.panix.com                       | \ / campaign against |L "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime."    |  x  HTML mail and    |L                          --Death, of the Endless    | / \ postings         |   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2005 16:26:38 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Y Subject: Re: ODS-5 directory and header definitions, where? Was: [OT] - dealing with ;327 3 Message-ID: <FFl0rW9UN+By@eisner.encompasserve.org>   i In article <1129050313.461461.52920@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Ed Wilts" <ewilts@ewilts.org> writes:  > G > You can't do that with standard tools.  If your rooted directory (say D > ewsub) is user1:[ewilts.], ewsub:[000000] implicitely exists - youD > can't create/dir ewsub:[000000].  Typing [0,0] is sure easier thanE > [000000] though.  Perhaps an alias for [0] pointing to [000000] :-)   E    You can create/dir user1:[ewilts.000000] and use set file to enter E    this in itself.  But the rest of the directories in user1:[ewilts] A    won't automatically show up in ewsub:[0,0] unless you also put     them there.  H > Some days us old guys just need to drive the engineers nuts with weirdC > backwards compatibility issues with 25-year old apps :-).  Yes, I  > remember PIP for VMS...   I    Do you remember VMS DIRECTORY command output in the format of PIP /LI?    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2005 11:06:15 -0700; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com>   Subject: Re: Samba-3 for OpenVMSB Message-ID: <1129053975.146556.56460@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   Joerg wrote: > Hi folks,  > B > I will (re-)start using distributed Netbeans for OpenVMS and I'mB > looking for a binary for Samba-3. Does anybody knows if there is > "installation kit" for it? >  > Joerg   F There is no Samba-3 version available for VMS as far as I know.  ThereD are two for Samba-2.  Samba 2.2.8 is available courtesy of Jean-YvesG Collot at http://www.pi-net.dyndns.org/anonymous/jyc/ and John Malmberg  has a V2.2.12 version at0 http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~malmberg/samba/  G Jean-Yves version is for VAX/Alpha but not IA64 while John's will build C on either Alpha or IA64 (but not VAX? I don't remember).  There are ? some differences between the two versions having to do with VMS = specifics.  Jean-Yves' has had a bit more customization done.   G For more information you will wnt to read the archives of the VMS-Samba @ mailing list here http://lists.samba.org/archive/samba-vms/  and+ probably subscribe to the mailing list here 2 https://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/samba-vms  F The latest word is that unless an outside source does it, Samba-3 willA not likely be ported to VMS by HP.  Since Samba-4 is in the early G alpha/development stage unconfirmed rumours/assumptions are that the HP ! efforts are being directed there.      John H. Reinhardt    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2005 11:39:43 -0700! From: Tapani.Rundgren@treville.se   Subject: Re: Samba-3 for OpenVMSC Message-ID: <1129055983.237075.287590@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>    Joerg skrev:   > Hi folks,  > B > I will (re-)start using distributed Netbeans for OpenVMS and I'mB > looking for a binary for Samba-3. Does anybody knows if there is > "installation kit" for it? >  > Joerg   	 Hi Joerg!    No need for Samba anymore.A The latest Distributed Netbeans can also use FTP for file access. 9 Works great. Have already removed Samba from our systems.    /Tapani    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 20:20:35 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>  Subject: Re: Samba-3 for OpenVMS+ Message-ID: <434C64E3.234694D4@comcast.net>   " Tapani.Rundgren@treville.se wrote: >  > Joerg skrev: > 
 > > Hi folks,  > > D > > I will (re-)start using distributed Netbeans for OpenVMS and I'mD > > looking for a binary for Samba-3. Does anybody knows if there is > > "installation kit" for it? > > 	 > > Joerg  >  > Hi Joerg!  >  > No need for Samba anymore.C > The latest Distributed Netbeans can also use FTP for file access. ; > Works great. Have already removed Samba from our systems.   E Interesting. How did FTP get integrated into Windows I/O such that it  could replace SMB?   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 18:18:50 +0000 (UTC) . From: klewis@LUMINA.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis)2 Subject: Re: TCPIP V5.4, SMTP & non-existant users. Message-ID: <digvma$kqp$1@newslocal.mitre.org>   Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes in article <2rKkpQcVyxE+@eisner.encompasserve.org> dated 10 Oct 2005 20:03:17 -0500: ] >In article <434B0AA7.4B1FB135@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:  > > >> HP could do us a big favour if they were to open source theJ >> TCPIP$RECEIVER . We need something that can move fast for the anti-spamG >> features, and right now, the TCPIP Services folks are moving way too  >> slow. > < >The typical response to such behavior is alternate vendors. > F >Process Software is in this market with three lines of email support.  K Another option is to port an already-open-source SMTP receiver to VMS.  The I main thing would be to use MAIL$ utilities to deliver the message, rather  than appending it to ~/mbox.    0 --Keith Lewis              klewis {at} mitre.org> The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2005 12:16:25 -0700 From: jordan@ccs4vms.com2 Subject: Re: TCPIP V5.4, SMTP & non-existant usersB Message-ID: <1129058185.104276.41680@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   Steven, G      I don't have a quick answer (and since I've been pulled out of the G office almost constantly the last couple of days I haven't been able to F call in a problem report either) but there is one possible alternative, if you want to spend the time looking at it.  E      Last year the following message was posted to COV by Jeff Morgan B showing a way to prefilter email; it does happen after receipt butC before delivery, so it might be applicable to this problem.  I just 9 checked and the website and download are still there too.   D      I actually intended to try this at home but haven't had time to+ set up the domain I was going to use it on.    Rich    ? http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/msg/e03d20ee60be5173    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 17:07:38 -0500 (CDT) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)2 Subject: Re: TCPIP V5.4, SMTP & non-existant users2 Message-ID: <05101117073845_20200274@antinode.org>   From: jordan@ccs4vms.com  A > http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/msg/e03d20ee60be5173   F    I remember seeing this when it was fresh.  It seemed kind of clumsyF then, and since the addition of "Symbiont-Checks-Deliverability", I'veI been fairly satisfied.  Until I found out that it doesn't work properly.  F (Some of us just don't get bothered about the state of the dikes until the storm-surge arrives.)   E    I've also lodged a whiny complaint in the ITRC forum, in case that E one has a higher-class readership than this one.  (It certainly stays G on-topic better.)  No one's offered a fresh .EXE yet, but hope endures.   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2005 15:50:51 -0700 From: jordan@ccs4vms.com2 Subject: Re: TCPIP V5.4, SMTP & non-existant usersC Message-ID: <1129071051.831429.300780@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   E OBTW, my planned implementation of the TEC procedure involved using a G EXECSYMB queue instead of the separate repeating batch job; as each job E landed in the queue, it would get searched, mangled, etc... I thought > it might even be able to handle the backup mail server role by@ redirecting appropriate mail to the primary mail server directly instead of via MX records.  E I never got to the point of finding out if the receiver would deliver C mail to a queue running a different symbiont, but I think using the  generic queue it would work.  B And yes its more work than having the symbiont check functionalityD working 100% but then I've got other problems to work around at someC point so the effort may be worth it.  At least till a truly capable B mailer becomes part of the TCPIP package (heh!) or budget for PMDF falls out of the sky.    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2005 15:45:03 -0700 From: jordan@ccs4vms.com2 Subject: Re: TCPIP V5.4, SMTP & non-existant usersC Message-ID: <1129070703.718631.270210@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   E I talked to an HP call screener but thats it so far; the call went in C pretty late though so I wasn't expecting the callback today.  Maybe 	 tomorrow.   A Believe me, the mta included with TCPIP services is chock full of E limitations and problems.  We're absolutely going to lose a couple of E customer email server spots to peecee based solutions that can handle B things like being the backup (store and forward) mail server for aF customer domain, and not have a problem separating identical usernamesD coming in for two different domains without silly forwarding tricks.   Rich   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 15:33:18 -0400 8 From: "Chris" <paynoattentionto@themanbehindthe.curtain>/ Subject: Re: TCPware starts up, then shuts down 9 Message-ID: <2sU2f.3457$vD4.220039@news20.bellglobal.com>   I Thanks for the suggestions.  I'll double-check, but we shouldn't be using K NFS or CNFS here at all, so RPC is the indicated bad-actor, just don't know K what condition might be leading to this.    Biggest concern is that I don't K believe any config changes have been made in a VERY long time on this node,  but again, I'll double-check  
 Thanks all   Chris   4 "Rich Whalen" <whalenr@process.com> wrote in message2 news:td4nk11u05hv8a1446jjmrpr85pmov7dd2@4ax.com...D > On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 12:34:58 -0400, "Chris" <an.other@not_here.ca> > wrote: > L > >I apologize for posting this here, but have had no answer from Process asK > >yet, and vmsnet.networks.tcpware seems deserted.  Any al all suggestions  > >gratefully received.  > >  > >Chris > > 3 > >Here is the NETCP.LOG that results after a boot:  > > D > >TCPware(R) for OpenVMS V5.6-2 Copyright (c) 2002 Process Software > > 1 > >**  6-OCT-2005 14:52:38 NETCP logging started.  > > C > >**  6-OCT-2005 14:52:41 Line LPB-0 (127.0.0.1) started by SYSTEM  (20400205). H > >**  6-OCT-2005 14:52:42 Line EWA-0 (172.22.120.204) started by SYSTEM
 > >(20400205)  > >.! > >   Line EWA-0 is using _EWA5:. J > >**  6-OCT-2005 14:52:42 Updating multicast address list for line EWA-0:& > >   Adding address 01-00-5E-00-00-01F > >**  6-OCT-2005 14:52:42 Line EWA-1 (172.22.128.2) started by SYSTEM > >(20400205).! > >   Line EWA-1 is using _EWB4:. J > >**  6-OCT-2005 14:52:42 Updating multicast address list for line EWA-1:& > >   Adding address 01-00-5E-00-00-01K > >**  6-OCT-2005 14:52:42 TCP started (or restarted) by SYSTEM (20400205). K > >**  6-OCT-2005 14:52:42 UDP started (or restarted) by SYSTEM (20400205). L > >**  6-OCT-2005 14:52:42 INET started (or restarted) by SYSTEM (20400205).K > >**  6-OCT-2005 14:52:42 UCX started (or restarted) by SYSTEM (20400205). 3 > >%RPC-E-LISTENERR, error listening for connection K > >-SYSTEM-F-THIRDPARTY, network logical link disconnected by a third party  > D > An exception producing error is happening when starting RPC.  ThisG > causes the NETCP's exception handler to take over and shut everything F > down.  Check your configuration of NFS, CNFS and RPC.  Try disabling= > them one at a time and seeing which one clears the problem.  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 00:44:57 +0200 3 From: "Dr. Dweeb" <NOSPAM_5msg0h202@sneakemail.com> % Subject: Re: VMS logo feedback needed = Message-ID: <434c4068$0$78287$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk>    Galen wrote: > JF,  > G > I like the way it looks. You must have spent a lot of time working on . > it. A couple of tongue in cheek suggestions: > > > What about having an unfortunate penguin in the shark's maw? >    Cheeky, I like it :-)   F > Any chance of getting it on coffee mugs, shirts, hats, paperweights, > or coasters? >  > Keep up the good work. > F > Oh, and using gold sounds good to me. It looks good with blue and of) > course lends an air of royalty as well.  >  > Just my thoughts...  >  > Galen    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 15:56:39 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ? Subject: Re: Why did VMS users go along with the itanium farce? , Message-ID: <434C18F6.6F5D7AE0@teksavvy.com>   mhatch@ics.com wrote: F > To be fair to OpenVMS, none of the UNIX platforms ship OpenMotif 2.xB > either because of the original license under which OpenMotif was > released.     # Doesn't HP-UX have Motif 2.0 ?????    D Fact is that Motif and X windows are not discussed at all in the VMSF roadmap.  So if no additional work is to be done on it, they shoudl atA least open source the VMS specific portions of it (file selection E dialogues etc) so that those could be integrated into the open source E motif source code. Remember that hobbyists are technically allowed to  use open motif.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 23:06:46 -0500 ' From: "Tom M" <kryios@spam.comcast.net> : Subject: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?0 Message-ID: <6p6dnZffKrOkENHeRVn-ug@comcast.com>  0 "Arne Vajhj" <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote in message6 news:434b6673$0$90419$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk... > healyzh@aracnet.com wrote:% > > Arne Vaj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote: 4 > >>It should actually not be that hard to port Mono > >>to VMS.  > > 7 > >>If it runs on Windows, Linux and *BSD, then porting  > >>to VMS should be possible. > >  > >>(and Mono includes C#) > >  > > L > > I've not had time to look at what would be required to port Mono to VMS,I > > however, I suspect it would be easier to try to port "DotGNU Portable  .NET".L > > http://www.dotgnu.org/pnet.html  I believe Mono has a fair amount of CPUK > > specific code (though I might be wrong about this), while Portable .NET  > > doesn't. > 9 > It is my impression that Mono is ahead both technically  > and market wise over DotGNU. > @ > How do DoTGNU avoid CPU specific code in a JIT compiler ? Have: > they written most of the stuff in managed code (like the > Jikes RVM for Java) ?   I Looks like it is basically an interpreter, so performance is likely poor.   L The porting guide for Mono talks about needing a code generator for the JIT,# so porting it would be non-trivial.    > K > > Of course the question might be, is anything like this needed.  I don't : > > know, but I for one wouldn't mind having it available. > A > There are coming a lot of C# programmers out of school the next 
 > 5-10 years.  >  > Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 23:38:41 -0500 ' From: "Tom M" <kryios@spam.comcast.net> : Subject: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?0 Message-ID: <G-qdnR5DAMsoCdHeRVn-iA@comcast.com>  2 "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote in messageL news:FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB70C222@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net... > -----Original Message-----8 > From: healyzh@aracnet.com [mailto:healyzh@aracnet.com]  > Sent: October 10, 2005 8:22 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com < > Subject: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ? > ( > Main, Kerry <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote:, > > > Main, Kerry <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote:? > > > > Instead, OpenVMS is focussing on improved J2EE and .Net 
 > integration  > > > > technologies.  > > > ? > > > I don't suppose that ".Net integration" might include C#?  > > >  > > >               Zane > ? > > Not sure if I understand your question, but with C# you can  > generate webG > > services modules on Windows which can easily integrate with OpenVMS  > > developed web services.  > = > Actually I was wondering if this meant we'd have C# running  > on OpenVMS.  In 6 > other words an implementation of the Common Language > Infrastructure (CLI) > Virtual Machine. >  > Zane >  >   0 That sounds to me like a question for Microsoft.   :-)   ) That sounds to me like a question for HP.   L I for one would like to see it.  We use C# for our Windows applications, and@ it would be nice to be able to use it for VMS applications also.   Tom    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Oct 2005 16:31:52 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: __PROBER(),3 Message-ID: <meuaISoykR4Y@eisner.encompasserve.org>   j In article <1129047917.301067.281640@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "roger" <rogerntucker@msn.com> writes: > G > To be clear, CPU A running thread 1 protects or deletes the user-mode F > virtual address space that CPU B running thread 2 has already probed" > but hasn't written yet.  Ouch...  ;    The need to make some operations thread safe is not new.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.569 ************************