1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 14 Oct 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 574       Contents: Re: Alpha last order date  Re: Alpha last order date  Re: Alpha last order date  Re: Alpha last order date  Re: Alpha last order date * Re: Anyone have a firefox (6520) keyboard? Re: File marked for delete Re: File marked for delete Re: File marked for delete Re: File marked for delete
 Re: fork()
 Re: fork()F Re: fork() (Was: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?) ?)F Re: fork() (Was: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?) ?)I Re: fork() (Was: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?) ?) ?) I Re: fork() (Was: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?) ?) ?) O Re: fork() (Was: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?) ?) ?) ?) ?) O Re: fork() (Was: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?) ?) ?) ?) ?) O Re: fork() (Was: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?) ?) ?) ?) ?) - Newbie trying to get foreign commands working 1 Re: Newbie trying to get foreign commands working 1 Re: Newbie trying to get foreign commands working 1 Re: Newbie trying to get foreign commands working 1 Re: Newbie trying to get foreign commands working 1 Re: Newbie trying to get foreign commands working 1 Re: Newbie trying to get foreign commands working 1 Re: Newbie trying to get foreign commands working 0 Red Hat trying to steal trucluster for linux ... SYMBOLS on OpenVMS/Itanium Re: They're baahaack Re: VMS logo feedback needed  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 08:53:38 +0200 3 From: Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com> " Subject: Re: Alpha last order date+ Message-ID: <3r938vFik4jfU2@individual.net>   ( On 2005-10-14 02:49, "Alan Greig" wrote:   ["Customer Times"]   > [...]  > K > Can this be downloaded as a complete version like the old OpenVMS Times?  I >   If you download it all you get is the index pages which all link off  - > to other files which need to be downloaded.   1 Get the PDF version (single document) instead ...    Michael    --  ; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. 5 My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 06:36:02 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)" Subject: Re: Alpha last order date$ Message-ID: <dinjki$8uv$1@online.de>  F In article <_bB3f.23947$U9.4632@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>, Alan Greig  <greigaln@netscape.net> writes:   F > I've been under the impression it was end 2006 but I can't remember H > where I saw that. A last order date of Oct 27 probably implies a last E > ship around December 2006 (excepting some special cases I suppose).  >  > Six years previously...    > Just for information:  >  >   < % >    Last order dates for VAX systems  > 4 >    VAX 4000, MicroVAX 3100 - 88 and 3100-98 models > = >    VAX 4000, MicroVAX 3100-88, and MicroVAX 3100-98 systems 2 >    and all associated options are being retired.6 >    Limited supply will be supported on a first come, >    first serve basis.  > ( >    Last order date: September 30, 2000 > & >    Last ship date: December 31, 2000  F Of course, 6 years ago, ALPHA had been out in the field for at least 6H years and had been recognised as the performance leader in its field forD essentially all of that time.  That's not the situation with ItaniumG now.  IIRC, VAXes were sold until they ran out of chips; perhaps there  " are no ALPHA chips sitting around.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 03:29:25 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> " Subject: Re: Alpha last order date0 Message-ID: <11kun72m70qrob4@corp.supernews.com>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: H > In article <_bB3f.23947$U9.4632@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>, Alan Greig" > <greigaln@netscape.net> writes:  >  > F >>I've been under the impression it was end 2006 but I can't remember H >>where I saw that. A last order date of Oct 27 probably implies a last E >>ship around December 2006 (excepting some special cases I suppose).  >> >>Six years previously...  >  >  >>Just for information:  >> >>  < % >>   Last order dates for VAX systems  >>4 >>   VAX 4000, MicroVAX 3100 - 88 and 3100-98 models >>= >>   VAX 4000, MicroVAX 3100-88, and MicroVAX 3100-98 systems 2 >>   and all associated options are being retired.6 >>   Limited supply will be supported on a first come, >>   first serve basis.  >>( >>   Last order date: September 30, 2000 >>& >>   Last ship date: December 31, 2000 >  > H > Of course, 6 years ago, ALPHA had been out in the field for at least 6J > years and had been recognised as the performance leader in its field forF > essentially all of that time.  That's not the situation with ItaniumI > now.  IIRC, VAXes were sold until they ran out of chips; perhaps there  $ > are no ALPHA chips sitting around. >   C I'd think that the chips are still being fabbed.  I also read that  D options will be available for another year.  That could also be CPU * upgrades, additional processors, and such.  I With IBM doing the fabbing, HP might be able to order what they need, in  C whatever quantities they need.  With VAX, they wanted to shut down  + production, so a large amount was produced.   F Today is not then, and I'd guess that what's required to fab chips is E kept around.  That would mean that in a bad case scenario additional  H Alpha chips could be produced.  Don't know what's involved in reverting 3 to a process size multiple generations in the past.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:09:51 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>" Subject: Re: Alpha last order date< Message-ID: <jeN3f.22850$ey6.3293@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>   Michael Unger wrote:   >  > 3 > Get the PDF version (single document) instead ...   D Havbe you tried it? The single version PDF document is just full of F links to external documents. It does not contain the articles. If you 6 have found a copy which does then please post the URL.  	 > Michael  >    --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 15:54:08 +0200 3 From: Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com> " Subject: Re: Alpha last order date+ Message-ID: <3r9ro1Fg5qrcU1@individual.net>   ( On 2005-10-14 14:09, "Alan Greig" wrote:   >  > Michael Unger wrote: > 4 >> Get the PDF version (single document) instead ... > F > Havbe you tried it? The single version PDF document is just full of H > links to external documents. It does not contain the articles. If you 8 > have found a copy which does then please post the URL.  F Sorry -- confusion at my end: I mixed up "Customer Times" and "OpenVMS Times".    Michael    --  ; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. 5 My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2005 09:41:58 -0700- From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> 3 Subject: Re: Anyone have a firefox (6520) keyboard? C Message-ID: <1129308118.705785.144340@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Roger Ivie wrote: = > On 2005-10-12, Doug Phillips <dphill46@netscape.net> wrote:  > > Roger Ivie wrote: F > >> The 2000 has a DB-25 for the printer, a DB-9 for the console, andH > >> a DB-15 for video, keyboard, and mouse. Well, except I think "DB-9"K > >> should actually be "DE-9" and I'm not sure what "DB-15" should be (the G > >> B refers to the size of the connector, so a DB-9 would be the size ' > >> of a DB-25, but only have 9 pins).  > > K > > The 9 pin RS232 connector is a DB-9. The 15 pin (3 rows of 5) connector  > > is an HD-15. > J > I'm pretty certain you're wrong about the HD-15. The HD-15 appears to beL > the VGA connector, which is the same size as an alleged DB-9 but has threeH > rows of pins. The 15-pin connector used in the VAXstations is slightly > larger with two rows of pins.   C You are correct. The HD-15 is the 3 row connector that has the same F case as the DB-9. I did find a 2-row DB-15 connector on the back of an@ old computer, but didn't find the manual. Some catalogs refer toE HD-D-Sub-15 & D-Sub-15 for the 3 row & 2 row connectors respectively.    > G > I'm also seeing web pages claiming I was right about the DB-9 being a B > DE-9, but I can't cut and paste between the web session and this= > terminal session (different machines) to include a pointer.  >   A I, too, found that DE-9 is the "real" name for the DB-9, but most F catalogs I find just say DB-9 or D-Sub-9 and if you're lucky there's a drawing or picture.   B Once again the old adage holds true: A picture is worth a thousand words.    C > The Amigas used an even slightly larger connector with 23 pins. I B > suspect the Amiga connector would be DC-23, the 15-pin connectorB > used in the VAXstation would be DD-15, and the 9-pin serial port? > is DE-9. But I've been wrong before, and no doubt will again.   A As Yogi might have said: You're only wrong when you're not right.   G I haven't been quite right for years, but I hang around with people who  don't seem to mind:~]    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 02:09:03 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net># Subject: Re: File marked for delete = Message-ID: <5IWdnTLrmNod1tLeRVn-rw@metrocastcablevision.com>    JF Mezei wrote:    ...   F > Could it be a question of ana/disk/repair acting at such a low levelI > that caches for the control files not being invalitated, so the systems G > would still us their cached data instead of getting updated data from  > the .sys files ?  G Well,  it *could* be just about *anything*, but I seriously doubt that  I VMS developers would create such a potentially serious bug (e.g., if the  F now-stale cache entries were updated and then overwrote some, but not H all, of the changes that ANALYZE had made) in the first place let alone / not have caught it long before it ever shipped.   D I'd be more inclined to suspect the kind of unforeseen delay that I H described, perhaps specific to the disk-full condition (which certainly H qualifies as a sufficiently rare situation that it only need be handled / properly rather than be performance-optimized).    - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:17:27 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net># Subject: Re: File marked for delete < Message-ID: <rlN3f.24374$U9.11578@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>   Bill Todd wrote:    F > I'd be more inclined to suspect the kind of unforeseen delay that I J > described, perhaps specific to the disk-full condition (which certainly J > qualifies as a sufficiently rare situation that it only need be handled 1 > properly rather than be performance-optimized).   D VMS delaying freeing up disk space because of a disk full condition H would seem to be missing the point of the DELETE somewhat! And I really C can't recall ever seeing it happen before with a disk at zero free   blocks. Anyone else?   --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 14:58:55 +0200 & From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch># Subject: Re: File marked for delete + Message-ID: <3r9ocgFi9mvaU1@individual.net>    Alan Greig wrote:  > Bill Todd wrote: >  >  > G >>My only wild guess is that it could have been interaction between the J >>mechanism that caches released space privately to a node for some periodG >>of time such that every node will have some space it can grab quickly F >>without having to coordinate with other nodes.  If this space was so >  > G > I did a SET VOLUME/REBUILD which seemed to free up no space but might F > also have been a trigger.  Also did an ANAL/DISK/REPAIR from the oneF > Alpha node just before I noticed the space actually free up - may be > significant. >   ( No magic insights into the delay, but...  F I think SET VOLUME/REBUILD will have been a trigger. Both the HELP on 5 this and the DCL Dictionary contain the same wording:    "SET VOLUME/REBUILD[=FORCE]   H Recovers caching limits for a volume that was dismounted improperly. If A a disk volume was dismounted improperly (such as during a system  G failure), and was then remounted with the MOUNT/NOREBUILD command, you  H can use SET VOLUME/REBUILD to recover the caching that was in effect at I the time of the dismount. The FORCE option forces the disk to be rebuilt  I unconditionally, thus updating the free block count in the disk volumes   lock value block."  . Hmm - don't think I've ever tried =FORCE here.  B Do the startup files use MOUNT/NOREBUILD for this disk, perchance?  F Whilst here, does SHOW DEVICES/REBUILD_STATUS show any other disks in  need of a rebuild?   > I >>reserved, then the other nodes (and a free space query) *might* not see E >>it as being free for some period of time unless some other activity < >>triggered a global reevaluation of distributed free space. >>B >>I'd suspect something related to aging data out of a cache as anF >>alternate explanation, but you seem to have ruled that out by saying/ >>that the file hadn't been accessed for years.  >  > F > I did copy it to another disk immediately before the delete - shouldH > have mentioned that. Later I copied and deleted a file of similar sizeI > and it went instantly as I would expect. Files hanging about in "marked A > for delete" status for 10 minutes when they are not open is not , > something I can recall ever seeing before.    From your initial post:  +  >Versions of VMS are VAX 6.2, Alpha 7.2-1.   H The versions sound a bit far apart to me. ISTR quite a few ECOs in this 3 period relating to F11BXQP.EXE  and related images.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 15:15:31 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net># Subject: Re: File marked for delete ; Message-ID: <nYP3f.24963$U9.3078@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>    Paul Sture wrote:    > D > Do the startup files use MOUNT/NOREBUILD for this disk, perchance?  + Nope, the mount during boot does a rebuild.    >  From your initial post: > - >  >Versions of VMS are VAX 6.2, Alpha 7.2-1.  > J > The versions sound a bit far apart to me. ISTR quite a few ECOs in this 5 > period relating to F11BXQP.EXE  and related images.   D Yes, I suspect the mix is not formally supported. A monitor cluster F doesn't work properly for example. I seem to recall there was a patch C for VAX VMS 6.2 that fixed the mon/clus problem and probably other  / things too, but no patches have been installed.    --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:34:12 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com  Subject: Re: fork() - Message-ID: <8764s0o09n.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   4 "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com> writes:  , > On 13 Oct 2005 at 9:44, Bob Koehler wrote:  @ >>    But mostly people used single processor systems, where all# >>    processes see the same thing.   D > Not true.  I had a set of processes communicating through a globalC > section.  Worked perfectly on VAX, but totally messed up on Alpha F > until I put explicit memory barrier instructions.  Single processor.  7 > Hoff told me I'd have to do that, and he was right...   C What is the question here? Alpha had a different memory consistancy F model from what the Vax had, and this was mentioned at every excuse in detail.    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 09:48:35 -0400 * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> Subject: Re: fork() , Message-ID: <434fb734$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  ( <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote in message' news:8764s0o09n.fsf@prep.synonet.com... 6 > "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com> writes: > . > > On 13 Oct 2005 at 9:44, Bob Koehler wrote: > B > >>    But mostly people used single processor systems, where all% > >>    processes see the same thing.  > F > > Not true.  I had a set of processes communicating through a globalE > > section.  Worked perfectly on VAX, but totally messed up on Alpha H > > until I put explicit memory barrier instructions.  Single processor. > 9 > > Hoff told me I'd have to do that, and he was right...  > E > What is the question here? Alpha had a different memory consistancy H > model from what the Vax had, and this was mentioned at every excuse in	 > detail.  >   F This is correct.  The question here was if MB's are needed for correctC synchronization between process on a single CPU - and the answer is I NO.  However, the claim was adding MB's "fixed" his problem.  In reality, F my guess is that the MB's created optimization barriers in the program: that "fixed" (or at least made it work) the code on Alpha.  A Remember that there are a *lot* of other perhaps more interesting C differences between Alpha and VAX that can get you in trouble.  The C VAX compilers pretty much put out a coherent stream of instructions C that get executed in order.  The Alpha compilers do a wide range of I code optimization to schedule the instructions efficiently - for example.   D So a read that appears to the compiler to have no dependencies mightC be moved someplace non-obvious (as an example).  Things like MB and J C operators like volatile IIRC create optimization barriers in addition to their other functions.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 07:49:04 -0400 * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>O Subject: Re: fork() (Was: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?) ?) , Message-ID: <434f9b31$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:N0Bbv48AZ8Qt@eisner.encompasserve.org... 7 > In article <434EC730.177DD67E@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei & <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > > "Stanley F. Quayle" wrote:G > >> Not true.  I had a set of processes communicating through a global F > >> section.  Worked perfectly on VAX, but totally messed up on AlphaI > >> until I put explicit memory barrier instructions.  Single processor.  > >  > > I > > Pardon my ignorance here, but what does "memory barrier instructions" 
 > > mean ? > > H > > DO you mean semaphores/flags/locks to signal that one portion of theG > > application wants exclusive access to the memory and tell the other 5 > > portions to wait an instant before accessing it ?  > >  > > F > > Or is this at a much lower level, declaring a page of memory to be/ > > non-shareable at the virtual memory level ?  > H >   MB tells the Alpha CPU to stall until all in-process memory accessesG >   are completed to the actual chip that holds the data.  Normally the F >   Alpha does not wait in between instructions for writes or modifies; >   to complete thier journey through the memory subsystem.  >   J No.  See my post.  MB does not cause the processor to stall.  A subsequent read might stall.    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2005 07:28:45 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) O Subject: Re: fork() (Was: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?) ?) 3 Message-ID: <Otp$FXxS2BXp@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <434ED517.4BFEF65B@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Bob Koehler wrote:J > Is this something that came about with Wildwire class machines where theI > memory isn't a single block of RAM but rather a collection of blocks of G > RAM ? Are there signals back to the CPU originating the write request J > that the RAM was in fact updated ? Or does the "stall" just hold the CPUF > for a pre-determined amount of time , an amount calculated to ensureC > that memory updates to the furthest memory have time to be done ?   H    MB has been a part of the Alpha architecture since before first ship.J    At the time the 21064 (EV4) was produced, memory would be a bottleneck L    if Alpha waited for every memory access to complete.  The customers made J    it clear they wanted all possible speed and the engineers realized thatH    generally one just didn't need to wait, so they brought out the issueF    to the ordinary instruction level where it could be called for only    when needed.    > J > Is this something that is needed even on simpler multi CPU machines like > DS/ES class machines ?  G    Yes.  Even my DEC 3000 Model 200 (the slowest production Alpha ever      shipped, IIRC) had MB.    > J > If you have a single RAM controlled by a single memory controller, wouldJ > such instructions still be needed ? Would one CPU not have direct accessI > to all of the RAM and not have to worry about some writes taking longer  > than others ?   G    No.  The CPU never has "direct" access to RAM.  It goes through some G    sort of bus connected to some sort of memory controller connected to C    some sort of bus connected to some sort of RAM on every computer D    built since the 60's (I'm not sure the connections on some of theD    earlier minis could be called "busses", ask a PDP-8 engineer, for    example).   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 19:10:23 +0100 3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> R Subject: Re: fork() (Was: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?) ?) ?)1 Message-ID: <dio3q0$b4l$1@news-02.connect.com.au>    Hi,   B Can anyone show me which part of the "Programming Concepts Manual"I (presumably the bit on shared memory) that tells you that your $enq/$deqs J are a plebian waste of time and that unless you're coding in C and use theG MB() instruction and have Hoff on the project then you're up shit creek  without a paddle?   E So I can release my memory resource lock and yet my write still isn't L visible on a single or multi-processor machine? I'm not going to sleep until0 I see for myself that the sun comes up tomorrow.   Regards Richard Maher   = "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com> wrote in message ' news:434EEF78.7009.FC37B3A@localhost... + > On 14 Oct 2005 at 1:08, Bob Harris wrote: C > > But I would have expected that an MB would be executed during a D > > process switch, so I would have expected consistency on an Alpha+ > > without the user doing any explicit MB.  > F > It doesn't do that.  It would nuke performance on a system with lotsB > of context switches.  From what I've experienced (not having theE > Alpha VMS source listings), it's clear there's never a MB in the OS  > unless it's needed...  > @ > > Then again, this might be good training for single processorC > > systems as training for applications that might then get run on  > > SMP boxes. > B > The problem I had to fix was first discovered on a 4-way ES box.D > Took about a year for me to reproduce on a DPWS (1 processor), but > it's there, too. >  > --Stan Quayle  > Quayle Consulting Inc. >  > ----------/ > Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 5 > 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 2 > stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com+ > "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option"  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 07:47:56 -0400 * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>R Subject: Re: fork() (Was: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?) ?) ?), Message-ID: <434f9aed$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  C Me too.  I think that he just changed something else in the program 9 optimization (MB also forms a optimization barrier IIRC).     3 "John Reagan" <john.reagan@hp.com> wrote in message - news:8Qx3f.14496$Ei7.4359@news.cpqcorp.net...  > Stanley F. Quayle wrote:. > > On 13 Oct 2005 at 9:44, Bob Koehler wrote: > > A > >>   But mostly people used single processor systems, where all $ > >>   processes see the same thing. > >  > > F > > Not true.  I had a set of processes communicating through a globalE > > section.  Worked perfectly on VAX, but totally messed up on Alpha H > > until I put explicit memory barrier instructions.  Single processor. > > 9 > > Hoff told me I'd have to do that, and he was right...  > >  > E > Really?  That surprises me.  The process swap has MBs in it.  So if C > Process A did a couple of writes that the chip decided to do in a J > different order, the MB in the process swap makes sure that both of themG > go to the shared global section before Process B becomes current.  If F > Process B does two reads, it shouldn't matter if the chip decided to! > read them in a different order.  >  > --  
 > John Reagan 1 > HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leader  > Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2005 07:30:02 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) X Subject: Re: fork() (Was: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?) ?) ?) ?) ?)3 Message-ID: <YDvaXXHEdZQa@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <434EA011.11054.E8D57EE@localhost>, "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com> writes:  > ? >   A Memory Barrier instruction forces the memory subsystem to < >   flush all pending writes out to memory.  Other processes= >   accessing the same data cell will then be able to see the ; >   changes.  If no Memory Barrier instruction is executed, 6 >   when the changes are visible is non-deterministic. >   C    The issue is not process-to-process, its processor-to-processor, -    unless the Alpha architecture has changed.    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2005 07:35:38 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) X Subject: Re: fork() (Was: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?) ?) ?) ?) ?)3 Message-ID: <sXtKqkuScPHv@eisner.encompasserve.org>   c In article <434EA011.11054.E8D57EE@localhost>, "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com> writes:  > H > This is (except for the "wait") is basically standard ENQ/DEQ stuff.  F > Fortunately, the global section (about 75% of the time) was covered H > with a lock, so I added the _MB() to anywhere there's a conversion to  > null mode.  F    A call to SYS$ENQ or SYS$DEQ should imply an MB without an explicitG    MB.  Or are these exceptions to the rule of change mode doing an MB? &    (My newest fiche is actuall fiche.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 09:39:56 -0400 * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>X Subject: Re: fork() (Was: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?) ?) ?) ?) ?), Message-ID: <434fb52d$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  F Sorry, I "meant" processor and wrote "processes" - it was early in the morning ;-)   H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:YDvaXXHEdZQa@eisner.encompasserve.org... D > In article <434EA011.11054.E8D57EE@localhost>, "Stanley F. Quayle"  <squayle@insight.rr.com> writes: > > A > >   A Memory Barrier instruction forces the memory subsystem to > > >   flush all pending writes out to memory.  Other processes? > >   accessing the same data cell will then be able to see the = > >   changes.  If no Memory Barrier instruction is executed, 8 > >   when the changes are visible is non-deterministic. > >  > E >    The issue is not process-to-process, its processor-to-processor, / >    unless the Alpha architecture has changed.  >    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2005 02:54:08 -0700* From: "Mark  Round" <mark.round@gmail.com>6 Subject: Newbie trying to get foreign commands workingA Message-ID: <1129283648.461633.7190@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>    Hi all,   @ I appreciatethis is a really rudimentary question, but so far myB Googling hasn't paid off. I'm running VMS 7.3-1 under SIMH, and amE trying to get "vmstar" to work as a "foreign command" (I believe this E is what I should be doing, anyway...). I have downloaded the VAX .exe D and can "run" it - my aim is to set the system up so I can just type! "tar" and then pass it arguments.   3 My system disk is dua0:, and my user disk is dua1:.    $ show log sys$login     "SYS$LOGIN" = "DUA1:[MROUND]" $ set def sys$login  $ dir [.downloads]  ! Directory DUA1:[MROUND.DOWNLOADS]     GUNZIP.EXE;1        VMSTAR.EXE;1   Total of 2 files.   C So the two files I want to use are there. I have tried the method I F have seen posted everywhere on the 'net for getting commands like this, working, but to no avail. I can "run" them :  ' $ run DUA1:[MROUND.DOWNLOADS]VMSTAR.EXE 1 usage: tar x|c|t[vbd][f tarfile] [file [file...]]   G But when I want to use it just by typing "tar" and passing arguments to  it, it doesn't work :   - $ tar :== "DUA1:[MROUND.DOWNLOADS]VMSTAR.EXE"  $ tar F %DCL-W-IVVERB, unrecognized command verb - check validity and spelling  \DUA1\    What am I doing wrong here ?   Many thanks in advance,    -Mark    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 10:10:28 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG: Subject: Re: Newbie trying to get foreign commands working0 Message-ID: <00A4B40E.7048D863@SendSpamHere.ORG>  n In article <1129283648.461633.7190@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, "Mark  Round" <mark.round@gmail.com> writes: >Hi all, > A >I appreciatethis is a really rudimentary question, but so far my C >Googling hasn't paid off. I'm running VMS 7.3-1 under SIMH, and am F >trying to get "vmstar" to work as a "foreign command" (I believe thisF >is what I should be doing, anyway...). I have downloaded the VAX .exeE >and can "run" it - my aim is to set the system up so I can just type " >"tar" and then pass it arguments. > 4 >My system disk is dua0:, and my user disk is dua1:. >  >$ show log sys$login ! >   "SYS$LOGIN" = "DUA1:[MROUND]"  >$ set def sys$login >$ dir [.downloads]  > " >Directory DUA1:[MROUND.DOWNLOADS] > ! >GUNZIP.EXE;1        VMSTAR.EXE;1  >  >Total of 2 files. > D >So the two files I want to use are there. I have tried the method IG >have seen posted everywhere on the 'net for getting commands like this - >working, but to no avail. I can "run" them :  > ( >$ run DUA1:[MROUND.DOWNLOADS]VMSTAR.EXE2 >usage: tar x|c|t[vbd][f tarfile] [file [file...]] > H >But when I want to use it just by typing "tar" and passing arguments to >it, it doesn't work : > . >$ tar :== "DUA1:[MROUND.DOWNLOADS]VMSTAR.EXE" >$ tarG >%DCL-W-IVVERB, unrecognized command verb - check validity and spelling  > \DUA1\ >  >What am I doing wrong here ?  >  >Many thanks in advance,  - $ tar == "$DUA1:[MROUND.DOWNLOADS]VMSTAR.EXE"  ----------^------    --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2005 03:15:52 -0700* From: "Mark  Round" <mark.round@gmail.com>: Subject: Re: Newbie trying to get foreign commands workingC Message-ID: <1129284952.177527.235720@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   1 Thank you all so much - it works perfectly now :)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 06:11:10 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> : Subject: Re: Newbie trying to get foreign commands working, Message-ID: <434F8407.8208865D@teksavvy.com>   Mark Round wrote: / > $ tar :== "DUA1:[MROUND.DOWNLOADS]VMSTAR.EXE"  > $ tar H > %DCL-W-IVVERB, unrecognized command verb - check validity and spelling	 >  \DUA1\  >  > What am I doing wrong here ?  H A symbol becomes a foreign command when its first character is a $ sign.F The dollar sign is "consumed", and the remainder of the symbol's value! used to find the executable file.    So you need to have:  . $ tar :== "$DUA1:[MROUND.DOWNLOADS]VMSTAR.EXE"    C Note that if you are using logical names that have a $, you need to 0 remember that the first dollar sign is consumed.   so you might need:  1 $mycommand :== "$$disk1:[directory]mycommand.exe"    for a device called "$disk1".    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 06:34:10 -0400 % From: BRAD <bradhamilton@comcast.net> : Subject: Re: Newbie trying to get foreign commands working* Message-ID: <434F89A2.7020706@comcast.net>   Mark Round wrote:  <snip>E > So the two files I want to use are there. I have tried the method I H > have seen posted everywhere on the 'net for getting commands like this. > working, but to no avail. I can "run" them : > ) > $ run DUA1:[MROUND.DOWNLOADS]VMSTAR.EXE 3 > usage: tar x|c|t[vbd][f tarfile] [file [file...]]  > I > But when I want to use it just by typing "tar" and passing arguments to  > it, it doesn't work :  > / > $ tar :== "DUA1:[MROUND.DOWNLOADS]VMSTAR.EXE"   A You must insert a dollar sign in front of the file specification:   . $ tar :== "$DUA1:[MROUND.DOWNLOADS]VMSTAR.EXE"   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2005 03:42:15 -0700* From: "Mark  Round" <mark.round@gmail.com>: Subject: Re: Newbie trying to get foreign commands workingB Message-ID: <1129286535.125613.12540@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>  G On a related note, is this normal procedure for a large site ? Say, for A instance, I have downloaded a large number of 3rd party tools and E binaries and plonked them in a shared "utils" directory. Would I have C to set up foreign commands for each and every one ? How do you guys  handle this on your sites ?    Thanks,    -Mark    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 07:42:57 -0400  From: x man <x@x.com> : Subject: Re: Newbie trying to get foreign commands working: Message-ID: <aa2dnRVBgpVcBNLenZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@comcast.com>   Mark Round wrote: I > On a related note, is this normal procedure for a large site ? Say, for C > instance, I have downloaded a large number of 3rd party tools and G > binaries and plonked them in a shared "utils" directory. Would I have E > to set up foreign commands for each and every one ? How do you guys  > handle this on your sites ?  > 	 > Thanks,  >  > -Mark  >   H There are numerous ways to do this.  I generally put the utilities into B a common directory.  I create a command file that defines all the 2 foreign symbols to the utilties (if they need it).  C Sometimes I will define a system-wide logical name to point to the  
 directory:  2 $ define /system localtools commondisk:[utilities]  D (I define a logical to the disk/directory so that the utilities can @ moved elsewhere later, if need be, without affecting those that  reference it.)  @ Put the above command in the SYLOGICALS.COM file in SYS$STARTUP.  ( Then, you can either have each user put:  " $ @LOCALTOOLS:DEFINE_UTILITIES.COM  H in their LOGIN.COM files -OR- put it into the system-wide LOGIN.COM file  0 The "DEFINE_UTILITIES.COM" file looks like this:   $ TAR :== $LOCALTOOLS:TAR.EXE # $ GUNZIP :== $LOCALTOOLS:GUNZIP.EXE    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 07:57:28 -0500 ) From: Wayne  Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com> : Subject: Re: Newbie trying to get foreign commands workingB Message-ID: <1129294649.d3b35e4effa7d611f970553da4d0c719@teranews>  H On 2005-10-14 05:42:15 -0500, "Mark  Round" <mark.round@gmail.com> said:  I > On a related note, is this normal procedure for a large site ? Say, for C > instance, I have downloaded a large number of 3rd party tools and G > binaries and plonked them in a shared "utils" directory. Would I have E > to set up foreign commands for each and every one ? How do you guys  > handle this on your sites ?  > 	 > Thanks,  >  > -Mark   + Others have already answered this question.   D As a side note, the foreign command mechanism is fine for permanent G utilities such as those you describe, but it is annoying for quick and  H dirty one-shots.  In other words, you write a simple program to perform F a one-shot task, and you compile and link.  But you can't just run it C if it requires parameters. You have to take the additional step of   defining the foreign command.   A To avoid this you can do "mcr disk:[dir]program param1 param2".   G Archaic, yes, and probably undocumented, but it works and is likely to  @ continue working because of all the command procedures doing it.   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Oct 2005 06:33:32 -0700 From: bob@instantwhip.com 9 Subject: Red Hat trying to steal trucluster for linux ... C Message-ID: <1129296812.230539.236890@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   0 I hope HP patent lawyers are ready for court ...- this is a repeat of Bill Gates and Cutler and  DEC mica theft ...    2 http://www.itjungle.com/tlb/tlb101105-story04.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 14:51:17 +0200 9 From: "Robert Trawinski" <robert.trawinski@softax.com.pl> # Subject: SYMBOLS on OpenVMS/Itanium + Message-ID: <dio9k5$q4b$1@bozon2.softax.pl>   - Does anybody port SYMBOLS  on OpenVMS/Itanium   < http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?SYMBOLS   Robert     ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 18:30:38 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com  Subject: Re: They're baahaack - Message-ID: <87achco0fl.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:    > Alan Greig wrote:     >> Richard Maher wrote:   B >> > PS. Talking about Whinging-Poms for a moment, just what is itC >> > with this weather in Perth these days??? I've got 2 thick (Tog  >> > 20?) duvets on and all   F >> Nothing. That's perfectly normal October weather in Perth, Scotland >> :-)  & > Or Perth Ontario for that matter....  A Has been pretty chilly overnight for the last wekk or so. :( Roll  on summer!!   B Hope that has not put a curse on Melb weather for the next week...   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 08:49:39 +0200 3 From: Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com> % Subject: Re: VMS logo feedback needed + Message-ID: <3r938uFik4jfU1@individual.net>   & On 2005-10-12 22:57, "JF Mezei" wrote:   > Kenneth Farmer wrote:  >>   >> [...] >  > [...]  > 1 >> Check out Cafe Press, http://www.cafepress.com  > H > Blank page on netscape. But Was able to get something out via Mosaic. C > (validator.w3.org found about 200 html errors on the front page).  > F > So they basically want 300dpi for printing.  For an 8** inch image ,                          ^^^^^^  > that would be 2400*2400.    C Not having done t-shirt or mug printing yet I'd suggest (taking the 7 viewing distance into consideration) using (at least!):   , - 300 dpi for publications (printed or PDF), - 200 dpi for mugs,  - 100 dpi for t-shirts.    > [...]    Michael    --  ; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. 5 My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.574 ************************