1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 16 Oct 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 577       Contents:* Re: Anyone have a firefox (6520) keyboard?@ Re: fork() (Was: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium@ Re: fork() (Was: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to ItaniumF Re: fork() (Was: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?) ?)! Re: JAVA for telephone handsets ? 1 Re: Newbie trying to get foreign commands working  Porting VMS back to VAX ?  Re: Porting VMS back to VAX ?  Re: Porting VMS back to VAX ?  Re: Porting VMS back to VAX ?  Re: Porting VMS back to VAX ?  Re: Porting VMS back to VAX ? # pws600au vms startup console output ' Re: pws600au vms startup console output ' Re: pws600au vms startup console output ' Re: pws600au vms startup console output ' Re: pws600au vms startup console output  Re: VMS support strategy?  Re: VMS support strategy?  Re: VMS support strategy?  Re: VMS support strategy?  Re: VMS support strategy?  Re: VMS support strategy?  Re: VMS support strategy?  Re: VMS support strategy?  Re: VMS support strategy?  Re: VMS support strategy?  Re: VMS support strategy?  Re: VMS support strategy?  Re: VMS support strategy?  Re: VMS support strategy?  Re: VMS support strategy?  Re: VMS support strategy?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 12:45:15 -0500 . From: Bob Blunt <RobertDOTblunt@digitalDOTcom>3 Subject: Re: Anyone have a firefox (6520) keyboard? : Message-ID: <sfydnc8oTaRRoszenZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@comcast.com>   jacob.ritorto@gmail.com wrote:E > I have an old VAX 6250 that seems to be booting and operable, but I I > have no keyboard for it.  Iirc, it takes a keyboard with a db15 plug or G > something like that.  Just wanted to fire it up and see if I remember H > VMS.  If you have one, please reply to jacob.ritorto@gmail.com.  MaybeA > we can work something out for a trade..  Got lotsa pdp11 stuff.  >  > thanks >  > jake >   < Jake, here's a URL where I found the Firefox service manual:  - http://starfish.osfn.org/rcs/VAX/vs3540sg.pdf   H The video cable part number listed there does match the one Hoff posted F in his email (listed on page B-2 of the service manual).  I owned two H Firevixen and that's one honkin' BIG, inflexible, LONG cable.  It's got G split-outs for the RGB that plugs into the graphics interface, monitor  G and for the 15pin that goes to the keyboard and mouse on the I/O panel.   G If you don't have a working monitor, you can simply plug a VT terminal  I with a BC16E cable to the MMJ connector on the bulkhead.  When you power  I on the system you can force the syste to use the alternate console using  G the VT terminal by holding in the halt button until the console output  F comes out on the terminal (page 2-5 of the service manual).   I think F that one of the front panel LEDs will start flashing when you've held  the button in long enough, too.   F In case you're looking for a monitor to replace the original VR295, I I think the VRT19 should work at 66hz.  It would also be MUCH lighter, the   VR295 was one heavy monster.     bob    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2005 15:13:42 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) I Subject: Re: fork() (Was: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium 3 Message-ID: <s7XCg9HT4Qkk@eisner.encompasserve.org>   [ In article <jvV3f.14614$oa.7260@news.cpqcorp.net>, John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> writes:   0 > No.  Memory and devices are always consistent.  E    According to the Architecture reference, an MB is necessary before D    handing a buffer off for DMA output so that the data that the CPUH    instructions put into the buffer will actually be in RAM be when the G    DMA starts, just as it is necessary for handing off the same buffer  .    to another CPU in a multi-processor system.  H    And in reverse, and MB is specified after DMA input, although I don't5    know if any I/O subsystems actually required this.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 16:32:52 -0400 * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>I Subject: Re: fork() (Was: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium , Message-ID: <43516775$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  H "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote in message- news:s7XCg9HT4Qkk@eisner.encompasserve.org... @ > In article <jvV3f.14614$oa.7260@news.cpqcorp.net>, John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> writes: > 2 > > No.  Memory and devices are always consistent. > G >    According to the Architecture reference, an MB is necessary before F >    handing a buffer off for DMA output so that the data that the CPUI >    instructions put into the buffer will actually be in RAM be when the H >    DMA starts, just as it is necessary for handing off the same buffer0 >    to another CPU in a multi-processor system. >   E It doesn't actually have to be in RAM, it has to be at it's coherency  point - K so that any attempt to access the memory location will get it - it could be G in cache for an implementation.  In fact the reason that MB was so slow F on EV4 and EV5 is that it was waiting for the memory system to ack the+ update - this doesn't happen on EV6 ad EV7.    > J >    And in reverse, and MB is specified after DMA input, although I don't7 >    know if any I/O subsystems actually required this.  >   F Indirectly.  Remember earlier my remark about a register read being anG implicit MB - now you know how it's done.  The device/bus doesn't issue I a CPU MB instruction, but a register read to the device is an implicit MB F (as if the device *had* issued an MB).  So when, for example, a deviceF driver reads the interrupt status register on the device - this is the implicit MB that is needed for the DMA.   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2005 15:06:35 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) O Subject: Re: fork() (Was: Re: Will "COM for OpenVMS" be ported to Itanium ?) ?) 3 Message-ID: <A$I8G4QPxSN5@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <43500FB9.814171B2@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > G > In a single CPU machine, are there cases where the CPU would actually L > read from RAM a block instead of reading it from a still unwritten cache ?  H    No.  That would violate the architecture spec.  A single CPU must see2    memory consistent with what it wrote to memory.  J > Or is the sole need in single CPU machines the issue of DMA transfers toJ > devices attached to the bus ? with the CPU ensuring all memory access by) > and from itself are actually coherent ?   G    Exactly.  On an Alpha all hardware which transferes data to and from *    memory must be considered "processors".   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2005 15:21:07 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) * Subject: Re: JAVA for telephone handsets ?3 Message-ID: <yyU1w9vBCyOO@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <4350980B.DDF90201@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:D > Is it possible to write java programs that can be pre-compiled (orI > whatever the term is) on an Alpha and then have the jar file moved to a  > handset and run on it ?   G    Assuming the handset has the same version, or later of the JRE, yes.   I > Or is the Java "compiler" on Alpha generate very specifalised JAVA code " > that can only run on VMS/Alpha ?  @    The Java compiler on VMS is a port of Sun's Java compiler andA    generates standard class files with standard Java byte stream.   H > Has anyone succesfully written JAVA code on ALPHA and then executed it > on a handset ? > I > (I realise that Handset manufacturers provide proprietary windows based E > application development environments, but I assume that the handset * > still support basic JAVA functionality).  H    I've never developed code for a handset, but I use VMS on Alpha as myH    primary Java developement platform for VMS, IRIX, Windows, and MacOS.  G    The only problems I've encountered were using JRE classes present on G    my Alpha which were not available in earlier JRE that were loaded on      some of the target platforms.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 19:55:30 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>: Subject: Re: Newbie trying to get foreign commands working+ Message-ID: <4351A502.19A4D8C2@comcast.net>    Mark Berryman wrote: >  > Mark Round wrote: K > > On a related note, is this normal procedure for a large site ? Say, for E > > instance, I have downloaded a large number of 3rd party tools and I > > binaries and plonked them in a shared "utils" directory. Would I have G > > to set up foreign commands for each and every one ? How do you guys  > > handle this on your sites ?  > 0 > I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet... > F > In later versions of VMS (and you said you were running V7.3-1 whichI > counts as a later version) there is a much easier way than defining all  > of those symbols.  > 2 > Create a directory that has World RE protection.G > Place your utilities such as tar, zip, unzip, etc. in this directory. > > Define the logical name DCL$PATH to point to this directory. > E > If you want the utilities to work only for you, define the DCL$PATH < > logical name only for your process (usually in Login.com). > H > If you want the utilities available for all users, define the DCL$PATH# > logical name in the system table.  >  > Examples:  > > > $ CREATE/DIR/OWN=SYSTEM/PROT=WO:RE DISK$FREEWARE:[UTILITIES]4 > $ DEFINE/SYSTEM DCL$PATH DISK$FREEWARE:[UTILITIES]
 > $ COPY -E > _$ ZIP.EXE,UNZIP.EXE,TAR.EXE,GZIP.EXE,GUNZIP.EXE,DFU.EXE,PERL.EXE -  > _$ DCL$PATH:*.*;/PROT=WO:RE  > G > (Obviously this is just an example.  The disk name and directory name J > can be whatever you choose and the executable images you choose to place* > in that directory will probably differ). > G > At this point, VMS first checks the VMS way of doing things.  If that > > fails, it follows the DOS/UNIX way of doing things.  To wit: >  > User types a command:  > D > $ tar -tf file.tar  !This user has SET PROC/PARSE=EXTENDED enabled > 8 > VMS checks to see if TAR is a DCL command.  It is not.G > VMS checks to see if TAR is defined as a foreign command.  It is not. H > If the logical name DCL$PATH is defined VMS searches the directory (orE > directories) pointed to by that logical for a file named TAR.COM or B > TAR.EXE (the case of the filename doesn't matter unless you haveJ > explicitly enabled that feature on the disk where these files reside andH > a .COM file will be found before a .EXE file if both are present).  IfI > the file is found, it is executed the same as if it had been referenced  > in a foreign command.  > H > This way, you simply place your utilities in the appropriate directoryE > and you don't have to worry about defining symbols to execute them.    Agreed. I use DCL$PATH at work.   8 See these URL's for some important caveats re: DCL$PATH:1 http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/4038/sld015.htm 1 http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/4038/sld016.htm 1 http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/4038/sld017.htm    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 17:16:26 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> " Subject: Porting VMS back to VAX ?, Message-ID: <435171A8.66340643@teksavvy.com>  D Ok, putting all management and business issues aside for a moment...  E Much has been said about VMS having gotten a good cleanup when ported S from Alpha to IA64 and making possible common code bases across multiple platforms.   D Much has been said about VAX not having the same code base as Alpha.    E How difficult would it be to "port" VMS back to VAX and have it share F the same code base as Alpha/IA64 ?  They could re-use the VAX specificD code and integrate it into the source code management system right ?  F How much of the VMS code is 64 bit specific that would require lots ofG changes to run on a 32 bit entity such as VAX ? Or is a large amount of D code written in such a way that it can easily be compiled for 32 bit architecture (aka VAX) ?  A For instance, would ODS5 compile easily for VAX, or would it be a E nighmare because there are so many assumptions that it will run in 64  bit environment ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 19:31:49 -0400 8 From: "Chris" <paynoattentionto@themanbehindthe.curtain>& Subject: Re: Porting VMS back to VAX ?: Message-ID: <Gjg4f.8009$S43.1238313@news20.bellglobal.com>  L Not sure why hp (or anyone else) would be interested in even evaluating thisJ kind of effort for a platform that is (allegedly) no longer in production.      : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:435171A8.66340643@teksavvy.com...F > Ok, putting all management and business issues aside for a moment... > G > Much has been said about VMS having gotten a good cleanup when ported J > from Alpha to IA64 and making possible common code bases across multiple
 platforms. > F > Much has been said about VAX not having the same code base as Alpha. >  > G > How difficult would it be to "port" VMS back to VAX and have it share H > the same code base as Alpha/IA64 ?  They could re-use the VAX specificF > code and integrate it into the source code management system right ? > H > How much of the VMS code is 64 bit specific that would require lots ofI > changes to run on a 32 bit entity such as VAX ? Or is a large amount of F > code written in such a way that it can easily be compiled for 32 bit > architecture (aka VAX) ? > C > For instance, would ODS5 compile easily for VAX, or would it be a G > nighmare because there are so many assumptions that it will run in 64  > bit environment ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 20:30:17 -0400 * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>& Subject: Re: Porting VMS back to VAX ?, Message-ID: <43519f1a$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  H Because JF's twisted mind is looking for a way to get back to 32-bits as a step to running on x86-32.    C "Chris" <paynoattentionto@themanbehindthe.curtain> wrote in message 4 news:Gjg4f.8009$S43.1238313@news20.bellglobal.com...I > Not sure why hp (or anyone else) would be interested in even evaluating  thisL > kind of effort for a platform that is (allegedly) no longer in production. >  >  > < > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message( > news:435171A8.66340643@teksavvy.com...H > > Ok, putting all management and business issues aside for a moment... > > I > > Much has been said about VMS having gotten a good cleanup when ported L > > from Alpha to IA64 and making possible common code bases across multiple > platforms. > > H > > Much has been said about VAX not having the same code base as Alpha. > >  > > I > > How difficult would it be to "port" VMS back to VAX and have it share J > > the same code base as Alpha/IA64 ?  They could re-use the VAX specificH > > code and integrate it into the source code management system right ? > > J > > How much of the VMS code is 64 bit specific that would require lots ofK > > changes to run on a 32 bit entity such as VAX ? Or is a large amount of H > > code written in such a way that it can easily be compiled for 32 bit > > architecture (aka VAX) ? > > E > > For instance, would ODS5 compile easily for VAX, or would it be a I > > nighmare because there are so many assumptions that it will run in 64  > > bit environment ?  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 21:20:08 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> & Subject: Re: Porting VMS back to VAX ?, Message-ID: <4351AAB5.5B9D615C@teksavvy.com>   FredK wrote: > J > Because JF's twisted mind is looking for a way to get back to 32-bits as > a step to running on x86-32.  I Not at all. When VMS is ported to the 8086, I expect only 64 bit support.   E I was asking more in the point of view of source code management with F regards to the efforts that had been made during port to IA64 to allowF multiple platform support from same code base, in relation to the factC that VAX-VMS has unofficially been abandonned, partly because it it , costs more to maintain a separate code base.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 20:21:59 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>& Subject: Re: Porting VMS back to VAX ?+ Message-ID: <4351AB37.181BE33E@comcast.net>    FredK wrote: > J > Because JF's twisted mind is looking for a way to get back to 32-bits as > a step to running on x86-32.  A ...or perhaps Stan Quayle might make a similar inquiry seeking to / prolong his tenure in the VAX emulation market.   G ...but, yes, cleaning up the 32-bit code so the source tree could serve H all three architectures is, perhaps, even beyond the great minds we knowH to be working at OpenVMS engineering. Like us, they, too, are aging, andH the mind is soon no longer what it once was, and is no longer capable of what it once was.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 22:10:44 -0400 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>& Subject: Re: Porting VMS back to VAX ?, Message-ID: <43517E64.358.174D5AE@localhost>  0 On 15 Oct 2005 at 20:21, David J Dachtera wrote:C > ...or perhaps Stan Quayle might make a similar inquiry seeking to 1 > prolong his tenure in the VAX emulation market.   E Thanks for the mention.  Actually, there's still 100,000 VAX systems  D out there.  Might be a lifetime employment opportunity.  [Shameless 6 Plug(tm) Alert:  http://www.stanq.com/charon-vax.html]  C > ...but, yes, cleaning up the 32-bit code so the source tree could ( > serve all three architectures is [...]  ; And unnecessary.  Wait until an emulator for Alpha becomes   available...  
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com) "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option"    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 20:14:47 -0500 ) From: Wayne  Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com> , Subject: pws600au vms startup console outputB Message-ID: <1129425287.68e927888db92f537094b1e4bcb63b94@teranews>  B The recent thread about getting back to SRM from alphabios on the H PWS433 reminded me of a console problem I have had forever on the 600au.  G I have only serial lines connected to my two PWS 600au machines, which  5 feed into a decserver.  There is no graphics monitor.   H I use set host/dte to get to the consoles, and the SRM consoles are set  to "serial".  D I am able to boot the machines, but for some reason I don't see the F boot messages from VMS.  The last line I see is "jumping to bootstrap H code".  Yet the machine actually does boot.  If I wait a few minutes, I G can hit return and get the normal login prompt.  I can then log in and  4 from that point on it behaves like a normal console.    ) Basically, this is all I get during boot:    (boot dka0.0.0.1009.0 -flags 0) 0 block 0 of dka0.0.0.1009.0 is a valid boot block( reading 1134 blocks from dka0.0.0.1009.0 bootstrap code read in3 base = 1d8000, image_start = 0, image_bytes = 8dc00  initializing HWRPB at 2000! initializing page table at 1ca000  initializing machine state# setting affinity to the primary CPU  jumping to bootstrap code     F Nothing at all from VMS startup.  Not even the version number message.  G None of my other machines behave this way.  Just the PWS 600au nodes.   H All consoles are routed through the decservers in exactly the same way, G and all the other nodes display the full console output, including the   itanium.  G Again, the console *is* set to serial.  What else can I do to make the   full boot dialogue show up?    --   Wayne Sewell   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 01:39:57 +0000 - From: David B Sneddon <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> 0 Subject: Re: pws600au vms startup console output* Message-ID: <4351AF6D.7080308@bigpond.com>  " Wayne Sewell was overheard to say:K > The recent thread about getting back to SRM from alphabios on the PWS433  C > reminded me of a console problem I have had forever on the 600au.  > I > I have only serial lines connected to my two PWS 600au machines, which  7 > feed into a decserver.  There is no graphics monitor.  > J > I use set host/dte to get to the consoles, and the SRM consoles are set  > to "serial". > K > I am able to boot the machines, but for some reason I don't see the boot  K > messages from VMS.  The last line I see is "jumping to bootstrap code".   J > Yet the machine actually does boot.  If I wait a few minutes, I can hit K > return and get the normal login prompt.  I can then log in and from that  , > point on it behaves like a normal console. >  > + > Basically, this is all I get during boot:  > ! > (boot dka0.0.0.1009.0 -flags 0) 2 > block 0 of dka0.0.0.1009.0 is a valid boot block* > reading 1134 blocks from dka0.0.0.1009.0 > bootstrap code read in5 > base = 1d8000, image_start = 0, image_bytes = 8dc00  > initializing HWRPB at 2000# > initializing page table at 1ca000  > initializing machine state% > setting affinity to the primary CPU  > jumping to bootstrap code  >  > H > Nothing at all from VMS startup.  Not even the version number message. > I > None of my other machines behave this way.  Just the PWS 600au nodes.   J > All consoles are routed through the decservers in exactly the same way, I > and all the other nodes display the full console output, including the  
 > itanium. > I > Again, the console *is* set to serial.  What else can I do to make the   > full boot dialogue show up?   C Which of the serial ports are you using?  I think you see the above > symptoms if you use the wrong one.  On my 600au the console is' the port numbered 1 i.e. the lower one.    Regards, Dave.  --  D David B Sneddon (dbs)  VMS Systems Programmer  dbsneddon@bigpond.comD Sneddo's quick guide ...     http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/D DBS freeware     http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htm   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 22:56:21 -0500 ) From: Wayne  Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com> 0 Subject: Re: pws600au vms startup console outputB Message-ID: <1129434983.fec919e20ceec8dcace9aeb3111d8924@teranews>  K On 2005-10-15 20:39:57 -0500, David B Sneddon <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> said:   $ > Wayne Sewell was overheard to say:E >> The recent thread about getting back to SRM from alphabios on the  K >> PWS433 reminded me of a console problem I have had forever on the 600au.  >>  J >> I have only serial lines connected to my two PWS 600au machines, which 8 >> feed into a decserver.  There is no graphics monitor. >>  K >> I use set host/dte to get to the consoles, and the SRM consoles are set   >> to "serial".  >>  G >> I am able to boot the machines, but for some reason I don't see the  I >> boot messages from VMS.  The last line I see is "jumping to bootstrap  K >> code".  Yet the machine actually does boot.  If I wait a few minutes, I  J >> can hit return and get the normal login prompt.  I can then log in and 7 >> from that point on it behaves like a normal console.  >>   >>  , >> Basically, this is all I get during boot: >>  " >> (boot dka0.0.0.1009.0 -flags 0)3 >> block 0 of dka0.0.0.1009.0 is a valid boot block + >> reading 1134 blocks from dka0.0.0.1009.0  >> bootstrap code read in 6 >> base = 1d8000, image_start = 0, image_bytes = 8dc00 >> initializing HWRPB at 2000 $ >> initializing page table at 1ca000 >> initializing machine state & >> setting affinity to the primary CPU >> jumping to bootstrap code >>   >>  I >> Nothing at all from VMS startup.  Not even the version number message.  >>  J >> None of my other machines behave this way.  Just the PWS 600au nodes.  K >> All consoles are routed through the decservers in exactly the same way,  J >> and all the other nodes display the full console output, including the  >> itanium.  >>  J >> Again, the console *is* set to serial.  What else can I do to make the  >> full boot dialogue show up? > E > Which of the serial ports are you using?  I think you see the above @ > symptoms if you use the wrong one.  On my 600au the console is) > the port numbered 1 i.e. the lower one.   C Yep, that was it.  Port 0 is TTA0, not OPA0.  It's amazing how the  G little things will bite you.  It's kind of counter-intuitive that port  H 1 would be the console, given that it is 0 on so many machines.  Still, G I would have figured this out years ago if port 0 had not given a dead  D sergeant and accepted commands.  I'm kind of surprised that console H commands, including boot, are allowed from the wrong port, i.e. the one > *not* the console.  I would have expected it to be completely $ unresponsive without an OS running .  E So I'm *kinda* embarrassed at the trivial fix, but not very, because  . this seems like goofy firmware behavior to me.   Wayne  --   Wayne Sewell   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 22:59:28 -0500 ) From: Wayne  Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com> 0 Subject: Re: pws600au vms startup console outputB Message-ID: <1129435170.3db6f352d7e1cbc01a5d7a499217b25f@teranews>  / On 2005-10-15 20:24:01 -0500, David J Dachtera  ! <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> said:    > Wayne Sewell wrote:  >>  D >> The recent thread about getting back to SRM from alphabios on theK >> PWS433 reminded me of a console problem I have had forever on the 600au.  >>  I >> I have only serial lines connected to my two PWS 600au machines, which 8 >> feed into a decserver.  There is no graphics monitor. >>  J >> I use set host/dte to get to the consoles, and the SRM consoles are set >> to "serial".  >>  F >> I am able to boot the machines, but for some reason I don't see theH >> boot messages from VMS.  The last line I see is "jumping to bootstrapJ >> code".  Yet the machine actually does boot.  If I wait a few minutes, II >> can hit return and get the normal login prompt.  I can then log in and 7 >> from that point on it behaves like a normal console.  >>  , >> Basically, this is all I get during boot: >>  " >> (boot dka0.0.0.1009.0 -flags 0)3 >> block 0 of dka0.0.0.1009.0 is a valid boot block + >> reading 1134 blocks from dka0.0.0.1009.0  >> bootstrap code read in 6 >> base = 1d8000, image_start = 0, image_bytes = 8dc00 >> initializing HWRPB at 2000 $ >> initializing page table at 1ca000 >> initializing machine state & >> setting affinity to the primary CPU >> jumping to bootstrap code >>  I >> Nothing at all from VMS startup.  Not even the version number message.  >>  H >> None of my other machines behave this way.  Just the PWS 600au nodes.J >> All consoles are routed through the decservers in exactly the same way,I >> and all the other nodes display the full console output, including the  >> itanium.  >>  I >> Again, the console *is* set to serial.  What else can I do to make the  >> full boot dialogue show up? > J > When you log in, what terminal does SHOW PROCESS indicate you are logged' > into? Perhaps there's a clue there...     F Yep, turns out it's TTA0, not OPA0.  See my response to David Sneddon.  = The question is why you are allowed to boot from TTA0 at all.    --   Wayne Sewell   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 23:26:53 -0500 (CDT) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)0 Subject: Re: pws600au vms startup console output2 Message-ID: <05101523265066_20200274@antinode.org>  ) From: Wayne  Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com>   H > Yep, turns out it's TTA0, not OPA0.  See my response to David Sneddon. > ? > The question is why you are allowed to boot from TTA0 at all.   E    It was _helping_ you.  Some people will complain if they're hanged  with a new rope.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2005 13:53:30 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) " Subject: Re: VMS support strategy?3 Message-ID: <PbHH1xA5bRsK@eisner.encompasserve.org>   l In article <1129401564.061238.62870@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Pete" <peter.giza@spitbrook.com> writes:I > I mean all levels of support; VMS systems mgmt, internals, programming, F > custom applications, both telephone and onsite support and hardware.F > The whole ball of wax the VMS user community used to have under DEC. > H > This is generally a developers or sysadmin news group from what I see.H > My interest is at this level but all the way up the chain to the CXO'sC > who have VMS platforms they depend upon day and night to make the  > doughnuts. > H > I've heard a lot of grumbling on the grapevine, but I've yet to find aD > forum that airs the complaints of corporate users.  That is what I > really need to find.  C As regards business issues, this newsgroup only has people venting. B Those interested in actually getting answers from HP need to do soC through the various invitational Manager Forums run by HP.  It also C might be possible to feed that through Encompass.  But just griping E here does nothing but annoy those of us trying to engage in technical  communication.   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2005 11:39:24 -0700' From: "Pete" <peter.giza@spitbrook.com> " Subject: Re: VMS support strategy?B Message-ID: <1129401564.061238.62870@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  G I mean all levels of support; VMS systems mgmt, internals, programming, D custom applications, both telephone and onsite support and hardware.D The whole ball of wax the VMS user community used to have under DEC.  F This is generally a developers or sysadmin news group from what I see.F My interest is at this level but all the way up the chain to the CXO'sA who have VMS platforms they depend upon day and night to make the 
 doughnuts.  F I've heard a lot of grumbling on the grapevine, but I've yet to find aB forum that airs the complaints of corporate users.  That is what I really need to find.   -pete    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2005 11:43:36 -0700' From: "Pete" <peter.giza@spitbrook.com> " Subject: Re: VMS support strategy?C Message-ID: <1129401816.684320.185160@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   E You statement regarding "financial resources" may or may not be true. F As HP likes to say "What If?"  What if there is enough dissatisfactionE amongst the corporate users to effect change?  HP isn't going to "get D on the stick".  They have already stated that the $1.5B VMS space isF diminishing and they are not particularly interested.  They are tryingC to force superdome on corporate users who are less than interested. C Add it all up and you have a dead-end support strategy that must be   addressed before it is too late.   -pete    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2005 21:04:27 -02006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)" Subject: Re: VMS support strategy?, Message-ID: <43516edb$1@news.langstoeger.at>  c In article <RyPOQZitKZFm@eisner.encompasserve.org>, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: a >In article <43508885.3C09CB59@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:  >> Pete wrote:F >>> Is there a forum to discuss support strategies for VMS?  Given theI >>> current concerns about HP's committment to supporting VMS I'd like to J >>> hear from other concerned netizens.  If there is a better forum please >>> feel free to inform. >>  4 >> Well, there's a lot of "discussion" of that here. >>  I >> Generally, the feeling is that VMS needs to be bought away from HP and  > D >No, _generally_ the feeling is that a bunch of loudmouths spend allD >their time grousing about non-technical issues rather than creating >great software on VMS.   * And what do we have of great VMS software 0 if we aren't allowed to buy VMS products anymore' because nobody knows VMS at all anymore  or VMS does no longer exist - because it has no longer a platform to run on  ???   F "Loudmouths" did already announce us the success of AMD64 (which as weE all know lead to EM64T). So, please don't talk negatively about them. C We need them, just as we need the "great VMS software" producers...   % And now back to technical discussions    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2005 12:52:12 -0700' From: "Pete" <peter.giza@spitbrook.com> " Subject: Re: VMS support strategy?B Message-ID: <1129405932.309977.47070@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>   Larry,  C   I agree. I will start my own newsgroup or find another avenue. My E goal is research and like criticism, griping can lead to creativity - C if done constructively. Unfortunately using a "managerial forum" or F Encompass is not going to give an unbiased customer view. I am lookingG for fact based information uncolored by existing  support institutions. 9  So if anyone cares I will post the new group here later.    -pete    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 16:37:55 -0400 * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>" Subject: Re: VMS support strategy?, Message-ID: <435168a4$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  2 "Pete" <peter.giza@spitbrook.com> wrote in message= news:1129401816.684320.185160@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... G > You statement regarding "financial resources" may or may not be true. H > As HP likes to say "What If?"  What if there is enough dissatisfactionG > amongst the corporate users to effect change?  HP isn't going to "get F > on the stick".  They have already stated that the $1.5B VMS space isH > diminishing and they are not particularly interested.  They are tryingE > to force superdome on corporate users who are less than interested. E > Add it all up and you have a dead-end support strategy that must be " > addressed before it is too late. >   C Funny - customers seem to be interested in SuperDome.  I suppose we F must talk to different ones.  Or is there some implicit agenda in your questions/statements?   I A dead-end strategy would be to continue to flog the "revive Alpha" idea,  and ignore Itanium.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 17:09:33 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> " Subject: Re: VMS support strategy?, Message-ID: <4351700B.64011192@teksavvy.com>   FredK wrote:E > Funny - customers seem to be interested in SuperDome.  I suppose we   > must talk to different ones.      G Of the remaining VMS customers, a high percentage will be interested in F big iron. But that is simply because the owner of VMS have driven away all other customers.  G When you look at the potential customer base/market for VMS, it is much E wider and superdome customers would represent only a tiny fraction of  what VMS could be.  E VMS cannot succeed in the "big iron only" market. It can only survive L there. Just like Tandem isn't growing. It has a small niche and stays in it.  E For VMS to succeed, it needs to be unleashed and not retricted to one 
 small market.    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2005 15:25:48 -0700' From: "Pete" <peter.giza@spitbrook.com> " Subject: Re: VMS support strategy?C Message-ID: <1129415148.722665.210280@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Fred,   B   Dead-end meaning that VMS current owner doesn't have; 1) a clear> marketing strategy for it (other than sunsetor Itanium), 2) is? outsourcing part of its support and trying to make it look like G standard helpdesk - won't work, 3) has reduced the level of support and B increased the cost, 4) has formally announced its disinterest in aC diminishing market, 5) anything I've forgotten?  I'm not saying VMS F isn't worthy of marketing, further development, etc.  What I have beenA watching a behaviour and I am concerned about the message in that 
 behaviour.   -pete    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 20:29:16 -0400 * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>" Subject: Re: VMS support strategy?* Message-ID: <43519edd@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  8 Neither HP or Intel believes that Itanium is "sensetor".  2 "Pete" <peter.giza@spitbrook.com> wrote in message= news:1129415148.722665.210280@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...  > Fred,  > D >   Dead-end meaning that VMS current owner doesn't have; 1) a clear@ > marketing strategy for it (other than sunsetor Itanium), 2) isA > outsourcing part of its support and trying to make it look like I > standard helpdesk - won't work, 3) has reduced the level of support and D > increased the cost, 4) has formally announced its disinterest in aE > diminishing market, 5) anything I've forgotten?  I'm not saying VMS H > isn't worthy of marketing, further development, etc.  What I have beenC > watching a behaviour and I am concerned about the message in that  > behaviour. >  > -pete  >    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2005 18:10:09 -0700' From: "Pete" <peter.giza@spitbrook.com> " Subject: Re: VMS support strategy?C Message-ID: <1129425009.728267.219680@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   A I've created a new group to discuss matters of continued support.   2 http://groups.google.com/group/systems-support-vms   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 20:11:46 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>" Subject: Re: VMS support strategy?* Message-ID: <4351A8D1.DD402E9@comcast.net>   Pete wrote:  > G > You statement regarding "financial resources" may or may not be true.  > As HP likes to say "What If?"   H You mean, as in "What if HP lanuched a massive, go-for-broke promotional1 campaign and pushed VMS as the alternative to the H bug/virus/trojan/worm-ridden bloatware that today is touted as 'de-facto; standard' (the unenlightened call it 'industry' standard)"?   * >  What if there is enough dissatisfaction0 > amongst the corporate users to effect change?   D See the archives of this group for all the dissatisfaction expressedH since years before the Alphacide. No one should need any more than that.A If they do, they should go back to business school, and this time  actually learn something!    > HP isn't going to "get > on the stick".    B I wouldn't expect that anymore than I'd expect - well, let's leave, political discussions/analogies out of this.  6 > They have already stated that the $1.5B VMS space is8 > diminishing and they are not particularly interested.   C ...as in, not interested in doing something about the fact that the G market for their obscure cash-cow is slowing dying due to their neglect  of it?   > They are trying E > to force superdome on corporate users who are less than interested.   H ...in vapor-ware that can only promise lack-lustre performance (comparedH to where Alpha should have been by now). By contrast, AMD x86-64 "has it' now", to paraphrase the old DEC slogan.   C Face it. HP knows that the Alphacide will go down in history as the G *THE* #1 Corporate Screw-up of all time. HP lacks the back-bone and the ' business savvy to mount that challenge.   E > Add it all up and you have a dead-end support strategy that must be " > addressed before it is too late.  G ...which is essentially the message that has been repeated almost daily  here for lo these many years.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 20:16:14 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>" Subject: Re: VMS support strategy?* Message-ID: <4351A9DE.A75EC95@comcast.net>   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > n > In article <1129401564.061238.62870@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Pete" <peter.giza@spitbrook.com> writes:K > > I mean all levels of support; VMS systems mgmt, internals, programming, H > > custom applications, both telephone and onsite support and hardware.H > > The whole ball of wax the VMS user community used to have under DEC. > > J > > This is generally a developers or sysadmin news group from what I see.J > > My interest is at this level but all the way up the chain to the CXO'sE > > who have VMS platforms they depend upon day and night to make the  > > doughnuts. > > J > > I've heard a lot of grumbling on the grapevine, but I've yet to find aF > > forum that airs the complaints of corporate users.  That is what I > > really need to find. > E > As regards business issues, this newsgroup only has people venting. D > Those interested in actually getting answers from HP need to do so< > through the various invitational Manager Forums run by HP.  H I trust you're now going to tell us the magic incantation for how to get onto the "invitee" list ... ?   	 > It also 4 > might be possible to feed that through Encompass.   C Encompass members are regular participants here. That channel has a   great dela of bandwidth already.   > But just gripingG > here does nothing but annoy those of us trying to engage in technical  > communication.  H ...but does at least provide the relief of having vented, and slakes theB desire to seek camaraderie and fellowship with those of like mind.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 21:26:10 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> " Subject: Re: VMS support strategy?, Message-ID: <4351AC1E.27DCE8BC@teksavvy.com>   David J Dachtera wrote: E > Face it. HP knows that the Alphacide will go down in history as the I > *THE* #1 Corporate Screw-up of all time. HP lacks the back-bone and the ) > business savvy to mount that challenge.     F HP doesn't see the euthanasia of Alpha as a mistake. Their goal was toH help Intel shareholders and from that point of view, the murder of AlphaH has greatly helped Intel shareholders and given Intel free access to allB the Alpha technolgioes and staff to keep its 8086 line competitive against AMD.  H HP doesn't care about its shareholders. Look at what happened when CarlyF wanted to buyt Compaq, she had to buy certain key shareholders (namelyF Bankers Trust/Deutshe Bank) to get the 50.00000000001 % support neededF for her pet project to go through. HP cartes about Intel and MicrosoftH shareholders. It won't do anything to jeoperdize that and jeoperdize itsG raltionship with its parent companies, Intel and Microsoft. HP operates / as a joint venture between Intel and Microsoft.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 21:28:52 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> " Subject: Re: VMS support strategy?, Message-ID: <4351ACC0.9D36D83F@teksavvy.com>   > Larry Kilgallen wrote:G > > As regards business issues, this newsgroup only has people venting. F > > Those interested in actually getting answers from HP need to do so> > > through the various invitational Manager Forums run by HP.    D If HP invites only satisfied customers to those forums, it will hear@ what it wants to hear, not what it needs to hear. It us far moreH important to hear from the customers who chose IBM or Sun, and hear fromD customers who are still customers but have already decided on a long# term plan to migrate away from VMS.    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Oct 2005 21:17:55 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) " Subject: Re: VMS support strategy?3 Message-ID: <DBbMsK+Bd7Nd@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <4351A9DE.A75EC95@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:  > Larry Kilgallen wrote:  F >> As regards business issues, this newsgroup only has people venting.E >> Those interested in actually getting answers from HP need to do so = >> through the various invitational Manager Forums run by HP.  > J > I trust you're now going to tell us the magic incantation for how to get  > onto the "invitee" list ... ?   > That seems like an appropriate topic for the alternative forum just mentioned.   
 >> It also5 >> might be possible to feed that through Encompass.   > E > Encompass members are regular participants here. That channel has a " > great dela of bandwidth already.  H This is not an official Encompass channel.  They have official channels.   >> But just griping H >> here does nothing but annoy those of us trying to engage in technical >> communication.  > J > ...but does at least provide the relief of having vented, and slakes theD > desire to seek camaraderie and fellowship with those of like mind.  8 Having found that camaraderie, please take it elsewhere.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 23:10:58 -0500 ) From: Wayne  Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com> " Subject: Re: VMS support strategy?B Message-ID: <1129435862.f33d68fa348d6fad9745868816f364ae@teranews>  K On 2005-10-15 21:17:55 -0500, Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) said:   > > In article <4351A9DE.A75EC95@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera % > <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:  >> Larry Kilgallen wrote:  > G >>> As regards business issues, this newsgroup only has people venting. F >>> Those interested in actually getting answers from HP need to do so> >>> through the various invitational Manager Forums run by HP. >>  K >> I trust you're now going to tell us the magic incantation for how to get   >> onto the "invitee" list ... ? > @ > That seems like an appropriate topic for the alternative forum > just mentioned.   B Not that I am involved in this discussion, but isn't that comment  somewhat circular?    E If you want to find out how to get an invitation to a forum, you can  E ask *on* the forum you don't have an invitation to and cannot access?    --   Wayne Sewell   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.577 ************************                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            PASV@ >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,10,17)! <<< LIST /vax000-87c/vax000-87c> >>> 150 List started.d >>> 226 Transfer completed.1 <<< TYPE A >>> 200 Type A ok.
 <<< PASV@ >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,10,19)! <<< LIST /vax000-88a/vax000-88a> >>> 150 List started.d >>> 226 Transfer completed.1 <<< TYPE A >>> 200 Type A ok.
 <<< PASV@ >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,10,21)! <<< LIST /vax000-88b/vax000-88b> >>> 150 List started.d >>> 226 Transfer completed.1 <<< TYPE A >>> 200 Type A ok.
 <<< PASV@ >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,10,23) <<< LIST /vax000/vax000A >>> 150 List started.s >>> 226 Transfer completed., <<< TYPE A >>> 200 Type A ok.
 <<< PASV@ >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,10,25) <<< LIST /vax79a/vax79a  >>> 150 List started.e >>> 226 Transfer completed.8 <<< TYPE A >>> 200 Type A ok.
 <<< PASV@ >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,10,28) <<< LIST /vax79b/vax79be >>> 150 List started.  >>> 226 Transfer completed.P <<< TYPE A >>> 200 Type A ok.
 <<< PASV@ >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,10,30) <<< LIST /vax80a/vax80ae >>> 150 List started.  >>> 226 Transfer completed.P <<< TYPE A >>> 200 Type A ok.
 <<< PASV@ >>> 227 Entering passive mode; use PORT (198,151,12,104,10,32) <<< LIST /vax80b/vax80be >>> 150 Li