1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 23 Oct 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 592       Contents:> Ah, if only it had been a disaster tolerant multi-site clusterB Re: Ah, if only it had been a disaster tolerant multi-site clusterB RE: Ah, if only it had been a disaster tolerant multi-site cluster/ Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today / Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today / Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today / Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today / Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today / Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today   Re: LIB$WAIT & COBOL/VMS problem) Re: OT: Is your HP printer spying on you? ) Re: OT: Is your HP printer spying on you? ) Re: OT: Is your HP printer spying on you? ) Re: OT: Is your HP printer spying on you? @ Re: Porting VAX/VMS to 8086 (Was: Re: Porting VMS back to VAX ?)@ Re: Porting VAX/VMS to 8086 (Was: Re: Porting VMS back to VAX ?) Re: Porting VMS back to VAX ?  Re: Porting VMS back to VAX ?  Re: Porting VMS back to VAX ? ' Re: pws600au vms startup console output L Re: Technical Update Days - Trip report Germany, Italy, Switzerland (part 1) Re: [Ann] FreeVMS 0.1.14 on x86   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 03:20:06 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> G Subject: Ah, if only it had been a disaster tolerant multi-site cluster 0 Message-ID: <11lme0bd8b3pbeb@corp.supernews.com>  F I've been using a long distance service, One Suite, for all but local I calls.  Not as hassle free as normal long distance, but at 2.5 cents per   minute, I'll accept the hassle.   H They went down over a week ago.  Must have lost lots of data.  Just got B set-up again today.  Had to have lost lots of money and customers.  H The statement was made to me that they lost their server.  Nothing more H specific, and they wouldn't tell me what type of system they were using.  G I've put in a call to the technical people.  Not sure who I'll get.  I  A asked for whoever was in charge of their systems, and whoever he  6 reported to.  I did hear something about 'new system'.  F If I can get ahold of anyone who is responsible for systems and such, I I'm going to ask, as a customer who suffered from their outage, and as a  E Software Engineer, what they're using, and why they aren't running a  F multi-site disaster tolerant system.  Don't know how it will go, but, = this sure is a business which just cannot tolerate down time.   F If they start asking me 'hard' questions, I might need some help.  My H VMs experience has always been at the lower end, you know, that portion # so well destroyed by DEC/Compaq/HP.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 00:57:07 -0700  From: Z <Z@no.spam> K Subject: Re: Ah, if only it had been a disaster tolerant multi-site cluster , Message-ID: <lnH6f.14963$RG4.14126@fe05.lga>   Dave Froble wrote:H > I've been using a long distance service, One Suite, for all but local K > calls.  Not as hassle free as normal long distance, but at 2.5 cents per  ! > minute, I'll accept the hassle.  > J > They went down over a week ago.  Must have lost lots of data.  Just got D > set-up again today.  Had to have lost lots of money and customers. > J > The statement was made to me that they lost their server.  Nothing more J > specific, and they wouldn't tell me what type of system they were using. > I > I've put in a call to the technical people.  Not sure who I'll get.  I  C > asked for whoever was in charge of their systems, and whoever he  8 > reported to.  I did hear something about 'new system'. > H > If I can get ahold of anyone who is responsible for systems and such, K > I'm going to ask, as a customer who suffered from their outage, and as a  G > Software Engineer, what they're using, and why they aren't running a  H > multi-site disaster tolerant system.  Don't know how it will go, but, ? > this sure is a business which just cannot tolerate down time.  > H > If they start asking me 'hard' questions, I might need some help.  My J > VMs experience has always been at the lower end, you know, that portion % > so well destroyed by DEC/Compaq/HP.   E Do you think you'll hear: "Since talking with you, Mr. Froble, we've  F decided to scrap our existing code base, our existing server hardware D and our entire business model and change over to a clustered HP/VMS  architecture? Thanks!"  % You're wasting your time. And theirs.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 09:59:58 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> K Subject: RE: Ah, if only it had been a disaster tolerant multi-site cluster R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB70C697@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----3 > From: Dave Froble [mailto:davef@tsoft-inc.com]=20   > Sent: October 23, 2005 3:20 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 9 > Subject: Ah, if only it had been a disaster tolerant=20  > multi-site cluster >=20J > I've been using a long distance service, One Suite, for all but local=20? > calls.  Not as hassle free as normal long distance, but at=20  > 2.5 cents per=20! > minute, I'll accept the hassle.  >=20B > They went down over a week ago.  Must have lost lots of data.=20 >  Just got=20D > set-up again today.  Had to have lost lots of money and customers. >=20? > The statement was made to me that they lost their server. =20  > Nothing more=20 A > specific, and they wouldn't tell me what type of system they=20 
 > were using.  >=20> > I've put in a call to the technical people.  Not sure who=20 > I'll get.  I=20 E > asked for whoever was in charge of their systems, and whoever he=20 8 > reported to.  I did hear something about 'new system'. >=20J > If I can get ahold of anyone who is responsible for systems and such,=20< > I'm going to ask, as a customer who suffered from their=20 > outage, and as a=20 I > Software Engineer, what they're using, and why they aren't running a=20 J > multi-site disaster tolerant system.  Don't know how it will go, but,=20? > this sure is a business which just cannot tolerate down time.  >=20J > If they start asking me 'hard' questions, I might need some help.  My=20? > VMs experience has always been at the lower end, you know,=20  > that portion=20 % > so well destroyed by DEC/Compaq/HP.  >=20 > --=20      David,  D The only way companies would even remotely consider changing is whenD they have a compelling business reason for doing so. Preventing what/ just occurred likely classifies as one example.   A In addition to avoiding what just happened from re-occurring, one A business reason might be as a competitive advantage i.e. "ask our G competitors if they lost their datacenter, what would they do?" or "Mr. E Customer - we use technology that is the same as many banks and stock H exchanges to ensure our servers are not impacted by viruses, Trojans andG monthly security patches - another example of how we want to ensure the 7 reliability, availability and security of your data..."    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Oct 2005 14:29:10 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today+ Message-ID: <3s1l1lFlqct8U1@individual.net>   + In article <435AF32F.3F6D5A55@comcast.net>, 5 	David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:  > Lurker wrote:  >>  B >> "David J Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message( >> news:435A7FE5.560C92E8@comcast.net... >>  M >> > My Dad's UAW pension is all that allows my mother to remain in the house  >> > where I grew up.  >>  = >> You forgot that your dad paid for that throughout his life = >> (and your mother too if she was working and in the union).  >  > TANSTAAFL. > 7 >> If they could be allowed to keep the money they have 9 >> paid to the union, they might have invested it and she / >> could have a better financial situation now.  > 2 > Coulda - woulda- shoulda. Doesn't pay the bills. > < >> Note that I said "could". Yes, of course, there is a risk> >> in that, and there should be some safety net in case things9 >> go seriously wrong. But, by and large, people would be : >> better off if they got to keep (and invest) their money4 >> rather then paying union functionaries who do not >> produce anything at all.  > = > ...except protection from corporate greed and exploitation.  > 6 >> > Without it, my siblings and I would be paying herI >> > utilities, groceries and property taxes (the only real semi-variable  >> > expenses she has).  >>  A >> No, she would simply have a stack of cash in the bank or bonds 4 >> or whatever with no need to rely on that pension. > 6 > You been smokin' the same stuff as "Z", haven't you? > E > You *REALLY* have no clue as to what it took to survive financially # > fifty or so years ago, have you?    F Some of us do.  And a lot of us still think the unions did more damage than good to our lifestyles.  I >                                  People actually *WORKED* for a living! J > They didn't sit on fat duffs playing point-and-click all day, believe it
 > or else.  I Except when the unions went on strike and told them to sit on their duffs G loosing money and falling further behind every day until finally forced F to take a much lower paying job in order to feed their family.  Why isE it union supporters fail to realize that after a strike that cost you E 25% of your annual income even a 10% pay raise leaves you behind over E the long term.  The only ones profiting from union activities are the I union officials being paid by the union.  They still get paid even during  the strike.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 23 Oct 2005 14:46:25 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today+ Message-ID: <3s1m20Flv8u1U1@individual.net>   + In article <435AEB70.F8BBA6FF@comcast.net>, 5 	David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:  > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>  . >> In article <435A7D52.B6EE59B1@comcast.net>,? >>         David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:  >> > Bill Gunshannon wrote:  >> >> 1 >> >> In article <4351AE21.5BC5F080@comcast.net>, B >> >>         David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: >> >> >  >> >> > [snip]N >> >> >  4. Do you have any detriments in your current day life as a result ofO >> >> > your parents or other fore-bearers having had the benefit of collective  >> >> > bargaining?  >> >> 
 >> >> Yes. >> > >> > Do explain. >>  E >> Quite simple.  If unions hadn't forced my father to start all over D >> from the beginning so many time when I was young, I wouldn't haveE >> grown when we were so poor and I would have had the opportunity to E >> go to college which would have resulted in a much better lifestyle  >> for me and my family. > G > My Dad supported a wife and three children with somewhat more than an J > 8th grade education. My sister had rheumatic fever during her young daysH > when Dad was in the Army. My brother and I were late-life children. I,I > the youngest, was a premie, and had several near-fatal conditions arise F > over the course of my young life, the effects of a couple of which I > still live with today. > G > I have only the "higher" education that I myself could afford (though G > I'd be more likely to blame the Illinois State Scholarship Commission F > for that than anything else, since they seem to (still, even to thisI > day!) think that retired blue collar folks on a fixed income can afford . > to send their late-life children to college. > > > I think I do fairly well for someone without a sheepskin and > double-digit IQ.  I So did I, (except for the part about a double-digit IQ which I also doubt F applies to you!!) but I could have done better if my father could haveL afforded to send me to college.  The proof of that is in my youngest siblingG who was able to go to college.  He was far enough behind the rest of us K that my father had gotten his non-union job and had a few years to actually J build up some savings.  Oh, and to support something others have said, theG non-union place wasn't without it's agitators.  Twice individual plants K of the factory voted in unions.  It usually took the length of one contract F for the union employees to fall behind the non-union employees in bothF wages and benefits and the workers would then vote the union back out.   > F >> And before you try saying the unions didn't do that, of course theyC >> did, by making unrealistic demands and then forcing my father to D >> not work until he had no choice but look elsewhere for employmentD >> resulting a return to a lower initial entry salary and a completeF >> loss of seniority and all the benefits (like more vacation to spend& >> with his family) that come with it. >>  + >> Being brainwashed with the union mantra,  > 	 > Hardly.  >  >> I hardly expect you to . >> accept anything I have to say against them, > , > I can accept it, without agreeing with it. >  >> but I can tell you A >> from personal experience that they made my life harder growing  >> up  > I > ...and I can tell you from personal experience that if not for the UAW, ? > I probably would not be here (waiting for the cheering and/or H > disappointed moaning to subside) thanx to even the meagre medical care8 > my parents could afford thanx to Dad's union benefits.  D And my father never had any medical coverage prior to his first goodC non-union job.  If it were not for the generosity and understanding E of the doctors of the era (not at all like today's MD's) we might not  have survived at all.    > B >> and the one time I was forced into union membership (by closed-C >> shop runles, which should be illegal as a violation of my rights A >> of association) they happily took my money and then screwed me ? >> when I could have actually used the supposed "benefits" they  >> claim to offer. > / > Well, "Z" seems to live in a perfect world...  > F > I do understand everything you say, unlike younger folks who have noJ > concept of what they are trying to talk about. Unions have their ups and& > downs, just like non-union workers.  > * > Our experiences differ, and that's o.k.  > E > I just want you to understand that I am *NOT* "brainwashed with the F > union mantra". I am alive - and my 93-year-old Mom still has her ownH > home - today for one reason and one reason only: because the UAW stoodE > up to IH and said, "like hell you'll treat your workers that way!".   E And I can say the same thing except that it is in spite of the unions G rather than because of them.  My membership in a union (not my choice!) F was 5-6 years after my father's last union job.  I found them to be no8 more helpful or beneficial than they were for my father.   > 9 > As always, your mileage may - and probably will - vary.  >    Undoubtedly.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 10:31:43 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today+ Message-ID: <435BACDE.BFB8A83E@comcast.net>    Bill Gunshannon wrote: > - > In article <435AF32F.3F6D5A55@comcast.net>, > >         David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:
 > > [snip]G > > You *REALLY* have no clue as to what it took to survive financially $ > > fifty or so years ago, have you? > H > Some of us do.  And a lot of us still think the unions did more damage > than good to our lifestyles.  F Again, I understand that it's question of differing experience. For my= part, I'm glad I had the chance to live to age 51 and beyond.   K > >                                  People actually *WORKED* for a living! L > > They didn't sit on fat duffs playing point-and-click all day, believe it > > or else. > K > Except when the unions went on strike and told them to sit on their duffs   C ...or walk a picket line - not easy in freezing rain and/or howling 3 winds, or blistering sun and oppressive humidity...   I > loosing money and falling further behind every day until finally forced H > to take a much lower paying job in order to feed their family.  Why isG > it union supporters fail to realize that after a strike that cost you G > 25% of your annual income even a 10% pay raise leaves you behind over  > the long term.    H Does no one believe in standing up for principle anymore? Do we *REALLY*@ want to let management believe that labor is their dormat, to beC (ab)used as they see fit? Have the words "honor" and "dignity" been  expunged from the dictionary?   + http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?honor - http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?dignity   8 Hhmmm, apparently not, at least not the on-line version.  7 > The only ones profiting from union activities are the K > union officials being paid by the union.  They still get paid even during 
 > the strike.   D You may want to inquire of a neighbor or acquaintance who is a union worker about strike pay...   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:57:04 -0400 % From: BRAD <bradhamilton@comcast.net> 8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today* Message-ID: <435BB2D0.7000108@comcast.net>   David J Dachtera wrote: J > Does no one believe in standing up for principle anymore? Do we *REALLY*B > want to let management believe that labor is their dormat, to beE > (ab)used as they see fit? Have the words "honor" and "dignity" been  > expunged from the dictionary?   @ Remember - in the ultimate irony - Ronald Reagan, friend of the D lunchpail Democrat, singlehandedly busted that nasty ATC union, and B forever changed the political landscape.  Now, unions are seen as @ arrogant, greedy, rapacious organizations, while businesses are 4 enlightened, generous friends of the working person.   :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 10:08:50 -0600 % From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> 8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march todayA Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20051023100435.0231dfc8@raptor.psccos.com>   # At 09:57 AM 10/23/2005, BRAD wrote:  >David J Dachtera wrote:J >>Does no one believe in standing up for principle anymore? Do we *REALLY*B >>want to let management believe that labor is their dormat, to beE >>(ab)used as they see fit? Have the words "honor" and "dignity" been  >>expunged from the dictionary?  > K >Remember - in the ultimate irony - Ronald Reagan, friend of the lunchpail  K >Democrat, singlehandedly busted that nasty ATC union, and forever changed  E >the political landscape.  Now, unions are seen as arrogant, greedy,  E >rapacious organizations, while businesses are enlightened, generous   >friends of the working person.   B Having been forced once to join a union, I totally agree with the L "arrogant, greedy" etc line.  There was a place for unions in the past, but G their time has, by and large, passed (and has been so for the last few  I decades).  There are a few exceptions, but in general, unions tend to do  7 more for themselves than for their dues-paying members.    My personal opinion...  K Besides, with respect to the ATC union, I suggest you go review that.  The  G ATC union was BREAKING THE LAW...they thought they could get away with  J breaking it (after all, who would fire an ATC?)...but unfortunately, they . encountered somebody who called their bluff...   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Oct 2005 16:38:33 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today+ Message-ID: <3s1sk9Fm59l1U1@individual.net>   + In article <435BACDE.BFB8A83E@comcast.net>, 5 	David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:  > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >>  . >> In article <435AF32F.3F6D5A55@comcast.net>,? >>         David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:  >> > [snip] H >> > You *REALLY* have no clue as to what it took to survive financially% >> > fifty or so years ago, have you?  >>  I >> Some of us do.  And a lot of us still think the unions did more damage  >> than good to our lifestyles.  > H > Again, I understand that it's question of differing experience. For my? > part, I'm glad I had the chance to live to age 51 and beyond.   E I am too.  But in my case it seemed more like the union was doing all I it could to prevent that.  I guess the big (and very likely unanswerable) 5 question is did they help more people than they hurt?    > L >> >                                  People actually *WORKED* for a living!M >> > They didn't sit on fat duffs playing point-and-click all day, believe it 
 >> > or else.  >>  L >> Except when the unions went on strike and told them to sit on their duffs > E > ...or walk a picket line - not easy in freezing rain and/or howling 5 > winds, or blistering sun and oppressive humidity...   D And how much do they pay you to do that?  My experience is much lessI than what the workers were earning.  Like you said, coulda-shoulda-woulda - don't pay the bills or put food on the table.    > J >> loosing money and falling further behind every day until finally forcedI >> to take a much lower paying job in order to feed their family.  Why is H >> it union supporters fail to realize that after a strike that cost youH >> 25% of your annual income even a 10% pay raise leaves you behind over >> the long term.  > < > Does no one believe in standing up for principle anymore?   J Principle doesn't feed the family either.  It's nice to say you can alwaysJ stand on priknciple, but if your a family man, you do have to take care of your family.  J >                                                           Do we *REALLY*B > want to let management believe that labor is their dormat, to be > (ab)used as they see fit?   B The fact that there are so many non-union shops that still seem to6 be able to find willing employees makes that unlikely.  E >                           Have the words "honor" and "dignity" been  > expunged from the dictionary?   B The use of those words in conjunction with the words "labor union"5 is way too much of an oxymoron for even me to accept.    > - > http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?honor / > http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?dignity  > : > Hhmmm, apparently not, at least not the on-line version. > 8 >> The only ones profiting from union activities are theL >> union officials being paid by the union.  They still get paid even during >> the strike. > F > You may want to inquire of a neighbor or acquaintance who is a union > worker about strike pay...  E What percentage of real pay is strike pay?  Do you honestly expect me F to believe that the unions will pay equivalent salaries for months (orG in the case of at least one of my father's employers, years) of strike?    B The rank and file loose in a strike.  Always.  The union officials= still get to drive their Cadilacs and smoke their big cigars.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:31:40 +0200 & From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>) Subject: Re: LIB$WAIT & COBOL/VMS problem + Message-ID: <3s1hlsFm2jlnU1@individual.net>    Richard Maher wrote:M > OK Here's a better example. Try toggling the value of lib$k_nowait from 0/1 3 > between runs and see the difference in behaviour.   B Yes, I can see different behaviour here when I toggle that (COBOL  V2.5-961, VMS V7.2).  G Note that with lib$k_nowait set to zero, the sys$hiber at the end also  B performs a 10 second wait - I added another  "perform show_time."   immediately after "Whatsagohon?"  ! Result with lib$k_nowait = zero :    $ run test_wait_2  Time is 23-OCT-2005 09:12:05.73  Time is 23-OCT-2005 09:12:05.73  Time is 23-OCT-2005 09:12:15.73  Time is 23-OCT-2005 09:12:15.73 $ Whatsagohon? Why aren't we snoozing?C Time is 23-OCT-2005 09:12:25.73    <--- note, another 10 sec delay.    Result with lib$k_nowait = 1 :   $ run test_wait_2  Time is 23-OCT-2005 09:14:53.46  Time is 23-OCT-2005 09:15:03.46  Time is 23-OCT-2005 09:15:13.46  Time is 23-OCT-2005 09:15:23.46 $ Whatsagohon? Why aren't we snoozing?6 Time is 23-OCT-2005 09:15:23.46    <--- no extra delay   > (I would have posted it I > earlier this morning but I've just got back from taking the kids to the M > beach. Yes, it's finally warm! (So you know where you can stick your Tuscan 
 > sunsets :-)    :-)   J > I think the moral of the story is that unless you know for sure that theJ > $wake was for you then you'd better not use it up. As I said before thisM > could be your problem with Rdb but my money is still on pilot error. Sorry.  >   G I'm wondering if the misdeclaration of the flags field as a COMP-1 (32  C bit F-floating for non COBOL folks) in Alex's declarations was the   'pilot error'...   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 02:02:20 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 2 Subject: Re: OT: Is your HP printer spying on you?0 Message-ID: <11lm9eh34274030@corp.supernews.com>   JF Mezei wrote: 
 > Z wrote: > H >>I'm sure that back when carmakers started stamping car and truck partsI >>with hidden VINs, some people were up in arms and talking about how the F >>government was spying on them and how criminals would just steal the* >>vehicles to make the hidden VINs futile. >  > H > Car serial numbers don't get secretly stamped on everything you put in > the boot/trunk.    > E > The printers secretely stamp their serial numbers on everything you 	 > print.   > B > What you print is your own creation. The printer has no business5 > altering it, especially not without your knowledge.  > G > The printer manufacturer has 0 rights over what you print. Therefore, L > they have 0 rights to affix their serial number on your printed materials. > G > They can stamp their serial number on everyuthing inside the printer. I > They have rights/copyrights on the design of the machine. But they have  > 0 rights on your creations.    :-(   " Damn, now I have to agree with JF.  . Nothing really to be added.  He covers it all.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 02:11:55 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 2 Subject: Re: OT: Is your HP printer spying on you?0 Message-ID: <11lma0hipo7sl28@corp.supernews.com>  
 Lurker wrote: 6 > "Dave Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message, > news:11ldj3eh9ao6l2d@corp.supernews.com... >  > C >>I'm also thinking about some of the court decisions RIAA has been 
 >>getting. >  > > > You know, it's a bit curious how posters from the US presume> > that all the rest of the world knows what the acronims mean.  C You're right, and I apologize.  I had assumed that the idiots were  ' notorious world wide for their actions.   @ > Sure, I can Google it and probably find what the heck that one@ > means but you (and others) seem to use it like a houshold term> > which is (by default) known to everyone and everywhere else. > Well, sorry mate, it's not.  >  >   ? Actually, I'm not sure of it's exact name.  Recording Industry  I <something> of America.  They spend big bucks buying the politicians and  7 get laws passed that allow them to invade your privacy.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 02:17:13 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 2 Subject: Re: OT: Is your HP printer spying on you?0 Message-ID: <11lmaafkcvrbnba@corp.supernews.com>   Z wrote: > JF Mezei wrote:  > @ >>> You know, it's a bit curious how posters from the US presume@ >>> that all the rest of the world knows what the acronims mean. >  > I >> RIAA is the Recording Industry Association of America. It includes the I >> big bad record labels and some of the artists. Its role is to find and J >> sue individuals who listen to their music on the internet, find ways to >  > I > Replace "listen to their music" with make "download music they haven't  J > paid for" and "make available for download music they haven't paid for." > 4 > If you want the music, pay for it; don't steal it.   Agreed.   D But the illegal actions of some does not justify the actions of the F RIAA.  I seem to remember them getting legislation passed that allows ? them to invade your computer system looking for songs and such.   E Makes me almost angry enough to set up some 'tar pits' for them.  At  E least I'm pretty sure their software will not get past my safeguards.   I Guess I shouldn't be so proud of the safeguards, because that path leads  8 to complacency, and that leads to successful intrusions.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 13:42:39 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>2 Subject: Re: OT: Is your HP printer spying on you?< Message-ID: <jrM6f.80481$U9.38221@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>   Dave Froble wrote:   > A > Actually, I'm not sure of it's exact name.  Recording Industry  K > <something> of America.  They spend big bucks buying the politicians and    G Recording Industry Association of America - and it wan't that long ago  ? when anyone interested in sound at all knew of it through RIAA  ; equalization on their turntable's magnetic pick-up pre-amp.   3 More (in)famous for other things, of course, today.      --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 02:39:35 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> I Subject: Re: Porting VAX/VMS to 8086 (Was: Re: Porting VMS back to VAX ?) 0 Message-ID: <11lmbkc3ocgij22@corp.supernews.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Richard Maher wrote: > M >>Given the near 1:1 instuction set match between the 8086 and VAX assemblers K >>(I have no idea how close they really are but to the casual observer they K >>both quack-like-a-duck.  Anyway, that's what John Reagan's for), would it L >>not be better (cheaper and easier!) to port *VAX*/VMS to 8086 and then addL >>the 64-bit VLM extensions? The new features that made it to Alpha and then@ >>I64 could subsequently be rolled-out, once more, with a proven6 >>upgrade/modification path, at engineering's leisure.   <snip>  J > Would it really be easier to port VAX-VMS to the 8086 instruction set ? F >  Seems to me that if they managed to get VMS on IA64, that code base4 > should be versatile enough to also go to the 8086.  I Me thinks that Richard has pulled your leg a bit, maybe several thousand   miles.  :-)    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 05:02:20 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> I Subject: Re: Porting VAX/VMS to 8086 (Was: Re: Porting VMS back to VAX ?) , Message-ID: <435B5191.2C1530AF@teksavvy.com>   Dave Froble wrote:J > Me thinks that Richard has pulled your leg a bit, maybe several thousand
 > miles.  :-)   F It would be kilometres between australia and canada... No USA involvedA in this :-) And Perth (Australia) is the furthest major city from  Montreal on the planet.     H And no, he was not pulling my leg. Consider how vehemently VMS engineersC have been denying the port to the 8086. They know it is going on in D ZKO's basement but have to kill any rumours of it happening until HPF decides they are ready to annnounce it. There is even a topic about it in  "Ask the Wizzard".  @ As part of the preparation to convert the covert project into anC official announcement,  HP will be making leaks over time to slowly < switch its policy.  Mr Maher's statement was just one of theD not-so-official leaks to begin the process. Remember that leaks willH never happen from HP staff, they relay the information to various peopleF to make the leaks. With Terry Shanon no longer with us, HP has to find other channels for its leaks.     :-)  :-) ;-) :-) :-) :-) ;-) :-)    A Actually, HP should be making the BIG leak to me. I would quickly F announce it everywhere, except nobody would believe me. Then, when theJ big official announcement arrives, it would truly be an announcement/news.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 02:33:44 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> & Subject: Re: Porting VMS back to VAX ?0 Message-ID: <11lmb9egupiah93@corp.supernews.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Neil Rieck wrote:  > J >>I was never convinced that RISC was better than CISC until I experiencedL >>OpenVMS on Alpha. (CISC was much more important when RAM was expensive but >>those days are long gone). >  >  > 0 > What is the difference between CISC and RISC ?  G Well, some of the things people wanted to do is pipeline instructions,  H run multiple pipelines, and such.  One important requirement is to have B everything in the pipeline the same size.  Things like MOVC5 just @ weren't good for pipelining.  The number of instructions wasn't F important.  Some RISC systems had/have a large number of instructions.  E Might be a bit fuzzy on some of the details, but one example was the  F number of pipelines the Alpha was getting to in EV6, and beyond.  The D complexity does not rise in a linear fashion, more like exponential.  @ So, how was the N-VAX and the x86 CPUs made faster.  The actual @ instructions the CPU would use was/is limited to what meets the H requirements.  Take the MOVC5 for example.  Provide some microcode that I will perform the task, and yes, the microcode 'program' involves lots of  G instructions, but all can be pipelined and/or meet the requirements of  D the CPU designer.  What you get is most of the instructions running E 'normally', but much faster since the optimizations can be used, and  I when you get to something complex, it runs as a small 'program', just as  F fast as everything else.  While you're still 'paying' for the complex F instruction, it won't cause the pipeline(s) to slow down, thus a very E big improvement when you can bump up the number of pipelines and the   clock speed.  I The above is grossly simplified, in part because I may not be able to be  A more precise about the details.  The concept is what's important.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 07:01:50 -0400 8 From: "Chris" <paynoattentionto@themanbehindthe.curtain>& Subject: Re: Porting VMS back to VAX ?6 Message-ID: <t4K6f.705$Nj3.5661@news20.bellglobal.com>  L Probably right about the chipsets, but I was told that the US guys with "allH the tanks and missiles" had an order filled for a fairly large number of VAXen surprisingly recently     4 "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote in message5 news:LOw6f.13134$ns3.1375399@news20.bellglobal.com...  > E > "Chris" <paynoattentionto@themanbehindthe.curtain> wrote in message 6 > news:n7C5f.11319$ns3.901029@news20.bellglobal.com...H > > If anyone has a contact at HP that they KNOW to be "in the know" andA > > unflinchingly honest, ask them when the last VAX was actually  > > manufactured. A > > The real answer definitely surprised me, given the "official"  > > announcements. > > H > Depends on what you mean by the word "manufacture". I thought the lastH > "order" date was Sept-2000 and the last "ship" date was expected to beH > Dec-2000 but I'm sure they would have put together a number of systems after J > 2000 in order to clear out the store rooms. I doubt that they would have7 > manufactured any VAX specific chips after that point.  >  > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  > Ontario, Canada.: > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 07:05:04 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> & Subject: Re: Porting VMS back to VAX ?( Message-ID: <opsy3qqqb0zgicya@hyrrokkin>  G On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 02:33:44 -0400, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>    wrote:   > JF Mezei wrote:  >> Neil Rieck wrote: >>B >>> I was never convinced that RISC was better than CISC until I   >>> experienced L >>> OpenVMS on Alpha. (CISC was much more important when RAM was expensive   >>> but  >>> those days are long gone).4 >>    What is the difference between CISC and RISC ? > J > Well, some of the things people wanted to do is pipeline instructions,  K > run multiple pipelines, and such.  One important requirement is to have   E > everything in the pipeline the same size.  Things like MOVC5 just   C > weren't good for pipelining.  The number of instructions wasn't   H > important.  Some RISC systems had/have a large number of instructions. > H > Might be a bit fuzzy on some of the details, but one example was the  I > number of pipelines the Alpha was getting to in EV6, and beyond.  The   F > complexity does not rise in a linear fashion, more like exponential. > C > So, how was the N-VAX and the x86 CPUs made faster.  The actual   C > instructions the CPU would use was/is limited to what meets the   K > requirements.  Take the MOVC5 for example.  Provide some microcode that   L > will perform the task, and yes, the microcode 'program' involves lots of  J > instructions, but all can be pipelined and/or meet the requirements of  G > the CPU designer.  What you get is most of the instructions running   H > 'normally', but much faster since the optimizations can be used, and  L > when you get to something complex, it runs as a small 'program', just as  I > fast as everything else.  While you're still 'paying' for the complex   I > instruction, it won't cause the pipeline(s) to slow down, thus a very   H > big improvement when you can bump up the number of pipelines and the   > clock speed.  B This essentially what Intel did with the x86 architecture.  They   implemented K risc-like core beginning around '89 and emulated the 86 instruction set.     I'm J sure that core has undergone significant changes.  In fact. you don't even( have to be compatible from core to core. > L > The above is grossly simplified, in part because I may not be able to be  C > more precise about the details.  The concept is what's important.  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 12:34:45 -0500 . From: Bob Blunt <RobertDOTblunt@digitalDOTcom>0 Subject: Re: pws600au vms startup console output0 Message-ID: <T-ednco9yZjTVMbeRVn-vg@comcast.com>   Wayne Sewell wrote: J > On 2005-10-15 23:26:53 -0500, sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) said: > , >> From: Wayne  Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.com> >>J >>> Yep, turns out it's TTA0, not OPA0.  See my response to David Sneddon. >>> A >>> The question is why you are allowed to boot from TTA0 at all.  >> >>H >>    It was _helping_ you.  Some people will complain if they're hanged >> with a new rope.  >> > I > Yeah, some help.  If it *really* wants to be helpful, it should behave  I > like a full console instead of a half-assed one.  In other words, make  H > the two ports completely interchangable, so it doesn't matter *which* I > one you use.  For that matter, all machines should do this.  Make OPA0  = > be whichever port you get input from when no OS is running.  > H > The only possible use for the current gag is if the real OPA0 port is K > physically broken.  Otherwise it makes more sense to simply use the real  . > console port and get the full functionality.  C Wayne, it's that way on any console-capable "port" on most Alphas.  H Regardless if you have "console" set to serial or graphics if you had a H graphics head on your system and pressed <CR> on it's keyboard it would F allow you to use that one as an "auxiliary or alternate" console too. G There are a few of the older Alpha systems that are less forgiving and  H one or two that just don't "act properly" without a graphics interface,  keyboard and mouse.   B Some of the VAXen were just as confusing, but you didn't have the D flexibility as you do on the Alphas.  You'd plug a console into the E wrong port and it just did't give you ANYTHING until VMS booted.  We  G tried to label those so it was less painful to figure out, but some of  H them still required graphics in the manuals to make it clear.  It isn't H a huge deal, you've got it figured out now.  Bottom line is that if you F don't see self-test on an Alpha you're connected to the wrong port or * the "console" variable is set incorrectly.  I If you don't like this "feature" you're definitely not going to be happy  D with it's equivalent on the Itanium systems.  The Alpha solution is ! wonderfully simple in comparison.    bob    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Oct 2005 08:15:18 -0700! From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com U Subject: Re: Technical Update Days - Trip report Germany, Italy, Switzerland (part 1) C Message-ID: <1130080518.748751.186270@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   F The customer visits have a very specific agenda since for these visits> there was no management just Guy, Norm and myself (unless I am9 considered the token mangment person, if so I need work).   G I can not mention the customer names since I do not have their ok to do G so (trying to respect their privacy).  If they chime in and say we were  there thats fine.   D As far as my nickname, I have no idea what they called me when I was+ not around but it must have been something.    Sue    ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 12:28:12 +0000 (UTC) 9 From: Roar =?iso-8859-1?Q?Thron=E6s?= <roart@nvg.ntnu.no> ( Subject: Re: [Ann] FreeVMS 0.1.14 on x86- Message-ID: <djfvks$sip$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>   8 John Malmberg <malmberg@dskwld.zko.dec.compaq.hp> wrote:  ( : You have CMU-IP listed as a component.  E : Do you have all the sources to it, including the mandatory patches?    No source for the patches.   --   -Roar    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.592 ************************