1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 25 Oct 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 596       Contents:? DEC Veterans Prepare Chip Challange For Intel, AMD, IBM and Sun / Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today / Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today / Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today + Re: Intel confirms itanium will be late ... + Re: Intel confirms itanium will be late ... + Re: Intel confirms itanium will be late ... + Re: Intel confirms itanium will be late ...   Re: LIB$WAIT & COBOL/VMS problem  Re: LIB$WAIT & COBOL/VMS problem  Re: LIB$WAIT & COBOL/VMS problem  Re: LIB$WAIT & COBOL/VMS problem NCR 53C810 on DS10L  Re: NCR 53C810 on DS10L - OpenVMS continues to laugh at CERT errors ...  Re: Porting VMS back to VAX ? K There are none so blind (Was: Re: updated VMS Information (sent yesterday)) O RE: There are none so blind (Was: Re: updated VMS Information (sent yesterday)) O RE: There are none so blind (Was: Re: updated VMS Information (sent yesterday)) P Re: There are none so blind (Was: Re: updated VMS Information (sent yesterday)) P Re: There are none so blind (Was: Re: updated VMS Information (sent yesterday)) % Re: USB SUPPORT ON DS10 ALPHA oPENvms % Re: USB SUPPORT ON DS10 ALPHA oPENvms   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:45:11 GMT 1 From: Robert Alan Byer <byer@mail.ourservers.net> H Subject: DEC Veterans Prepare Chip Challange For Intel, AMD, IBM and Sun9 Message-ID: <bVo7f.70537$Hs.55002@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com>   / I really hope these guys make it in the market. = (and I hope their new processor will someday run OpenVMS :) )   5 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/10/24/pasemi_power/    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Oct 2005 06:37:22 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march todayC Message-ID: <1130247442.184319.199630@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   
 Lurker wrote: 1 > "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message > > news:1130204538.698968.52860@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > G > > At another job a 150-Amp fuse in a line leading to one of our UPSes H > > needed to be changed. By law only a union guy is allowed to do this. > K > That's interesting. Are you sure it was by law and not by some collective G > contract or so? Seems hard to imagine a law requiring that instead of H > qualifications, certificate or whatever. I might be mistaken of courseG > but, if it was indeed mandated by the law, then the situation is even  > worse than I imagined.    G I don't know the specifics. But if it is from the contract, then it may F as well be law. All I really know is that only a union guy could touch' it. I'm sorry I can't be more specific.    ------------------------------   Date: 25 Oct 2005 15:13:53 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today+ Message-ID: <3s70dhFmne2nU1@individual.net>   C In article <1130247442.184319.199630@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, ' 	"AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:  >  > Lurker wrote: 2 >> "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message? >> news:1130204538.698968.52860@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...  >>H >> > At another job a 150-Amp fuse in a line leading to one of our UPSesI >> > needed to be changed. By law only a union guy is allowed to do this.  >>L >> That's interesting. Are you sure it was by law and not by some collectiveH >> contract or so? Seems hard to imagine a law requiring that instead ofI >> qualifications, certificate or whatever. I might be mistaken of course H >> but, if it was indeed mandated by the law, then the situation is even >> worse than I imagined.  >  > I > I don't know the specifics. But if it is from the contract, then it may H > as well be law. All I really know is that only a union guy could touch) > it. I'm sorry I can't be more specific.  >   F I don't know about unions, but I have seen circuit breakers that couldH only be thrown by certified electricians.  And if you had ever seen whatH flash-over looks like, you wouldn't make fun of the protective gear they> wear.  Electricity at those levels is nothing to take lightly.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 25 Oct 2005 12:17:36 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today3 Message-ID: <RQ4inNgz7DYC@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Z In article <dA_6f.2176$S24.150786@news.xtra.co.nz>, "Lurker" <nowhere@nothing.com> writes: > D > Wrong. When you accept a job you sign a legally binding agreement.  L    What state do you work in?  Here, like every other state else I've worked!    in, there is no such contract.   H    I signed for life insurance beneficiaries, the company's right to ownD    what I produce, and required tax forms.  No employment agreement.  C    I do now, and have always, worked in an employ-at-will state.  I #    believe most states are similar.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 03:03:50 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 4 Subject: Re: Intel confirms itanium will be late ...+ Message-ID: <435DD8A9.11F0AF2@teksavvy.com>    Bill Todd wrote:G > And for icing on the cake, you get to wait until 2007 before anything H > approaching what Montecito was *supposed* to be gets out the door, andA > until 2008 before a successor (Tukwila) is scheduled to appear.   G Since I am of the opinion that an exit strategy has already begun, I am ) not sure about anything beyond 2007/2008.   D Alpha had a large installed base and because the announcement of VMSH moving to IA64 was made years before IA64 was ready for prime time, theyD had to promise some number of Alpha iterations to maintain customers  until they could switch to IA64.  G The 64 bit 8086 is available now, and by 2007, the new system interface B allowing scaling to high end systems will fill the niche currentlyE occupied by Alpha/IA64 at high end. Lets say 2008 just to be safe. So G there isn't much need for new IA64 beyond 2007 since by 2008, new sales  will all go to the 8086.  H Ideally, HP would announce the port of VMS in early 2006, initially onlyE for low end to mid range based 8086s. IA64 retains its niche for high C end systems. (similar to 8086 vs Sparc at Sun).  Then, when the new H system interfaces become available for the 8086 in 2007 some addition toN the roadmap will be made to include support for such systems sometime in 2008.  H HP would make it clear that VMS would run only on a subset of 8086 basedH systems with pre-requisites such as EFI boot, certain IO interfaces etc.? (similar to IA64 policy). Expect the VMS roadmap to discuss VMS H eventually supporting blade systems (for marketing reasons). In the longA term, VMS would run of just about any 8086 produced by HP. (Via a L combination of expanding VMS's capabilities and HP narrowing its standards).  E As soon as VMS is available on the new "high end" 8086 systems, there H will no longer be a point of selling VMS on IA64 systems, except for the: few customers who adopted those IA64 space heating things.  H So the life of IA64 for VMS depends on how quickly the VMS engineers canH produce a commercial version of VMS on the 8086 and how quickly they canH add support for the new system interfaces coming in 2007.  If sample EFIF based motherboards are already available from Intel for such projects,9 the engineers would already have some systems to work on.     F If we are really lucky, VMS is already running on the 8086 and will beH commercially available as version 8.3 by October 2006 the day before the last Alpha sale cutoff :-) :-)  G The big question at HP is HP-UX.  Can this big endian beast be moved to H the 8086 in little endian mode ? Would it bring any added value compared
 to Linux ?   ----  G Now the minute HP announces the ports to the 8086, the end of IA64 will C be quasi official. Intel can continue to claim that it continues it E commitments to IA64 and will produce Montvale and Tukwilla. (same way H Compaq committed to producing EV7 and EV79). Tukwilla will end up just aD Montvale with  a speed bump with a "new and improved" sticker on it.G Intel could even claim that work on Poulson will continue (but allocate : half a person on it, perhaps a student working part time).  F I don't really see the need for Intel to commit to anything beyond the 2007/2008 timeframe.  G If the decisions to abandon IA64 was made in early 2004 when the strong @ signals began, they have plenty of time to plan and execute that= strategy and by 2006/2007, things could start moving quickly.   F And I wouldn't be surprised to see a former VMS product manager's nameF appear as head of some porting project, as well as the revelation thatC there is a sub-basement at ZKO, below the exercise rooms... :-) :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 06:52:22 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 4 Subject: Re: Intel confirms itanium will be late ..., Message-ID: <435E0E29.BC55E934@teksavvy.com>   Robert Boers wrote: I > It does run (on an AMD64 4200+ dual core in this case), see the link at  > the bottom of this page:1 > http://www.softresint.com/charon-axp/index.htm#     G The VAX version only runs VAX-VMS which is now a number of years behind F Alpha-VMS and lacking many serious features such as ODS5 for instance.G While not official, HP is no longer develooping VAX-VMS. (although some : layered products such as DCPS are still making it to VAX).  G And while having Charon-Alpha run on the 8086 will be neat, I can't see H this as a long term solution. VMS must run natively on the 8086. Yeah, IH know this may put Charon out of business, but they could then sell a VAXA emulator that runs on VMS-8086.  (allowing to host a full VAX-VMS G version as an application running on VMS on an 8086, this way you could G still provide transparent moving of old VAX applications/systems to the  8086 based machines.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 07:29:58 -0400 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>4 Subject: Re: Intel confirms itanium will be late .../ Message-ID: <435DDEF6.11996.1180BC89@localhost>   ' On 25 Oct 2005 at 6:52, JF Mezei wrote: I > VMS must run natively on the 8086. Yeah, I know this may put Charon out C > of business, but they could then sell a VAX emulator that runs on  > VMS-8086.   F I signed up as a CHARON-VAX reseller as a way to market my VMS system C admininstration skills, not to sell widgets.  So, whether it's VMS- D 8086 or Windows or VMS/Alpha or Linux or ... underneath, it's still 
 VMS to me.  = I'd like to see VMS running natively on the super-cheap 8086  @ hardware.  But what's the business justification?  Remember, HP A *still* thinks it's a hardware company.  Cheap means "there's no  . money in it" (to quote from the Robots movie).  D If you have a customer with several million dollars to spend on VMS-1 8086, send them to HP.  Until then, stop whining.   
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com) "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option"    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:12:42 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>4 Subject: Re: Intel confirms itanium will be late ...; Message-ID: <_ip7f.4613$Bj2.3537@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>    JF Mezei wrote:    > GreyCloud wrote: > > >>Do you mean the dual-core P4-D?  I already purchased on from >>HP. < >>But it turned out to be a dog so I took it back.  Waste of+ >>good sand when they marry it with XP tho.  >  >  > H > Imagine the marketing potential if VMS ran on the 8086 and had supportJ > for dual core before Windows. VMS marketing could really takle advantage  I Windows already supports dual core Opteron, Athlon-64, Pentium and Xeon.  L VMS engineering would need to add time travel capability to get there first.    8 > of this and arrange to be seen to be AHEAD OF WINDOWS.   --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:02:55 +0800 3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> ) Subject: Re: LIB$WAIT & COBOL/VMS problem 1 Message-ID: <djkhtd$gp1$1@news-02.connect.com.au>   	 Hi Larry,   H > That would be pointer arithmetic -- the #1 downfall of C and something > to be avoided at all cost.  L WOW! There goes a whole lot of addressing modes right there. Maybe this sortH Cromwellian zeal is how RISC got started? I sure hope John Reagan is notL listening, I certainly wouldn't want the Macro-32 legs cut from under us! IfB anyone's got one of those pdp11 fold-out cards with the opcode andK addressing mode values on it then please send it on before it makes the LJK 
 burn-list.  F As far as the "#1 downfall of C" goes, there's just too many vying forK contention for my money. It's like the Melbourne (pronounced Melbin for our J American friends :-) Cup all over again. I grant you that buffer over-runsI and stray pointers seem to be a recurring theme with C/Unix but don't the B resulting security breaches have alot to do with people failing to! adequately protect memory anyway?   L I firmly believe that it is next to impossible to write bug-free code, whichH is why testing comes in pretty handy. Integer Overflows, Dodgy Pointers,L Subscript Out-of-bounds all this stuff has a nasty habit of biting us in theJ arse, which is why we all test! (And stay away from Kernel mode as much as possible :-)  F VMS without pointer arithmatic? I wonder how many modules would remain
 untouched.   Regards Richard Maher   : "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@SpamCop.net> wrote in message- news:dWt4jwp0N67$@eisner.encompasserve.org... C > In article <djk21d$p7u$1@news-02.connect.com.au>, "Richard Maher" % <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> writes:  > # > > *AND* then there's the lovely:-  > >  > > ADD ws_offset TO buff_addr > H > That would be pointer arithmetic -- the #1 downfall of C and something > to be avoided at all cost. > C > If I wanted the fourth through last characters of a string in Ada  > I would use: > G > lib.whatever ( my_string ( my_string'first + 3 .. my_string'last ) );  > D > If I wanted to do it in Pascal I would have to look in the manual,D > but that is just me.  Certainly Pascal supports substrings without > doing pointer arithmetic.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 03:34:58 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ) Subject: Re: LIB$WAIT & COBOL/VMS problem , Message-ID: <435DDFF2.761CBC26@teksavvy.com>  J > > That would be pointer arithmetic -- the #1 downfall of C and something > > to be avoided at all cost.  8 My main problem with pointers in C is something such as:  ! struct my_recipe *my_pointer[30];   G eg: distinction between an array of pointers, or a pointer to an array. = The above is fairly obvious, but it is when you make function # declarations that it can get dicey.   F I actually like working with pointers. It forces one to have a certainC amount of discipline when thinking about structure of code and also 6 greatly simplifies argument passing between routines.   E In terms of the whole "string" stuff, the null terminated issue isn't D really related to pointers.  It is related to laziness of assuming aF zero terminated string, so you can just pass one argument, the pointerG to the string instead of having complex structures such as a descriptor 7 or passing other arguments such as maximum string size.   > A good programmer can use null terminated strings for "output"   char *flavour = "Chocolate".   build_cake(flavour);      $ But would use more robust for input:   char flavour[80];   & ask_flavour(flavour, sizeof(flavour)); build_cake(flavour);    C where ask_flavour would always use the maximum buffer size to limit E where it writes and always ensure that the string is null terminated.     D With C, it is true that with sloppy programming, you can get tons ofD problems. But if you have sufficient discipline and know how to planE your structures and what arguments are required between routines, you ! can have some pretty robust code.   L Pointers are not evil. They are a powerful tool that must be used correctly.   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Oct 2005 11:11:37 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org) Subject: Re: LIB$WAIT & COBOL/VMS problem 3 Message-ID: <Ry8XtBlIR0RS@eisner.encompasserve.org>   g In article <djk21d$p7u$1@news-02.connect.com.au>, "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> writes: 
 > Hi John, > L > COBOL (and I'm sure all other compilers) also lets you stick BY DESCRIPTOR; > infront of most things to build a descriptor for you e.g.  > ) > call "fred" using by descriptor "Hello" 7 > call "jack" using by descriptor my_arrary(element_no)  > (1:dynamic_runtime_len)  > J > But what you're telling us is that never in your 40 years of tending theC > frogs at the "Local Shop" for "Pascal people" have you ever had a  > requirement to: -   
 No.  I'm not.   0 And you're dead wrong about all other compilers.   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Oct 2005 11:10:28 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org) Subject: Re: LIB$WAIT & COBOL/VMS problem 3 Message-ID: <bBJ4QWPUS8nT@eisner.encompasserve.org>   g In article <djk13p$o1g$1@news-02.connect.com.au>, "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> writes:  > Hi Briggs, > 6 > So how would the compiler handle a situation like: - > 4 > move sub_rtn_array (user_option) to my_identifier.& > call my_identifier using some_stuff.  # I was talking about Ada, not Cobol.    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Oct 2005 08:02:07 -0700" From: "Rok" <Rok.Vidmar@gmail.com> Subject: NCR 53C810 on DS10LC Message-ID: <1130252527.862846.136510@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   C  AlphaServer DS10L 466 MHz, CONSOLE_VERSION V6.8-9, PALCODE_VERSION A 1.98-83, NCR 53C810 controller with 3 disks (ids 1,2,3), an RRD43  (id 4), and a TZ89 (id 5).  #  The SRM console detects NCR 53C810 &    bus 0, slot 17 -- pka -- NCR 53C810 polls the devices, waits twice&    waiting for pka0.7.0.17 to poll ...5 but finds no SCSI device hanging from the controller.     Console error log showsC    bad interrupt received on pka0.4.0.17.0, dstat = 00, sist0 = 04, 
 sist1 = 00C    bad interrupt received on pka0.5.0.17.0, dstat = 00, sist0 = 04, 
 sist1 = 00  E  The second NCR 53C810 I have behaves the same. If I shorten the SCSI > bus to just one device it is not found either. (Un)shunting E15 (termination) on NCR 53C810 card makes no difference.   ?  OpenVMS AXP V8.2 has no problem to detect and use all devices.   7  Now, how do I boot this configration from SCSI disk!?     Regards, Rok   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:17:22 +0200 . From: "Gorazd Kikelj" <gorazd.kikelj@siol.net>  Subject: Re: NCR 53C810 on DS10L/ Message-ID: <mUs7f.928$h6.316568@news.siol.net>    First upgrade console to 7.0.   9 In a very quick look I don't find that adapter supported.    Best, Gorazd  - "Rok" <Rok.Vidmar@gmail.com> wrote in message = news:1130252527.862846.136510@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... D > AlphaServer DS10L 466 MHz, CONSOLE_VERSION V6.8-9, PALCODE_VERSIONC > 1.98-83, NCR 53C810 controller with 3 disks (ids 1,2,3), an RRD43  > (id 4), and a TZ89 (id 5). > % >  The SRM console detects NCR 53C810 ( >    bus 0, slot 17 -- pka -- NCR 53C810  > polls the devices, waits twice( >    waiting for pka0.7.0.17 to poll ...7 > but finds no SCSI device hanging from the controller.  >  >  Console error log showsE >    bad interrupt received on pka0.4.0.17.0, dstat = 00, sist0 = 04,  > sist1 = 00E >    bad interrupt received on pka0.5.0.17.0, dstat = 00, sist0 = 04,  > sist1 = 00 > G >  The second NCR 53C810 I have behaves the same. If I shorten the SCSI @ > bus to just one device it is not found either. (Un)shunting E17 > (termination) on NCR 53C810 card makes no difference.  > A >  OpenVMS AXP V8.2 has no problem to detect and use all devices.  > 8 >  Now, how do I boot this configration from SCSI disk!? >  > Regards, Rok >    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Oct 2005 06:27:58 -0700 From: bob@instantwhip.com 6 Subject: OpenVMS continues to laugh at CERT errors ...C Message-ID: <1130246878.797854.147950@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   9 http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=05/10/25/5520719    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 07:48:04 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> & Subject: Re: Porting VMS back to VAX ?9 Message-ID: <VXo7f.4581$ki7.225420@news20.bellglobal.com>   5 "Dave Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message  * news:11lmb9egupiah93@corp.supernews.com... > JF Mezei wrote:  >> Neil Rieck wrote: >>K >>>I was never convinced that RISC was better than CISC until I experienced J >>>OpenVMS on Alpha. (CISC was much more important when RAM was expensive  >>>but >>>those days are long gone).  >> >> >>1 >> What is the difference between CISC and RISC ?  > M > Well, some of the things people wanted to do is pipeline instructions, run  F > multiple pipelines, and such.  One important requirement is to have L > everything in the pipeline the same size.  Things like MOVC5 just weren't K > good for pipelining.  The number of instructions wasn't important.  Some  7 > RISC systems had/have a large number of instructions.  > G > Might be a bit fuzzy on some of the details, but one example was the  H > number of pipelines the Alpha was getting to in EV6, and beyond.  The F > complexity does not rise in a linear fashion, more like exponential. > B > So, how was the N-VAX and the x86 CPUs made faster.  The actual B > instructions the CPU would use was/is limited to what meets the J > requirements.  Take the MOVC5 for example.  Provide some microcode that K > will perform the task, and yes, the microcode 'program' involves lots of  M > instructions, but all can be pipelined and/or meet the requirements of the  B > CPU designer.  What you get is most of the instructions running L > 'normally', but much faster since the optimizations can be used, and when K > you get to something complex, it runs as a small 'program', just as fast  C > as everything else.  While you're still 'paying' for the complex  L > instruction, it won't cause the pipeline(s) to slow down, thus a very big I > improvement when you can bump up the number of pipelines and the clock   > speed. > K > The above is grossly simplified, in part because I may not be able to be  C > more precise about the details.  The concept is what's important.  >  > --  6 > David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04506 > Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596@ > DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com > 170 Grimplin Road  > Vanderbilt, PA  15486   A I agree with all of this but need to reiterate that some complex  J instructions (like POLY) tied up the CPU for way too long. So simplifying M your CPU to only run microcode AND having all your compilers compile down to  J microcode really gives you the best of all worlds. (Remember the Motorola I engineer who once said "RISC = Relegate Important Stuff to the Complier")   K p.s. this approach also allows you to discover problems "late in the game"  K then fix them by just changing the software (as opposed to the "IA32 FDIV"  L problem where Intel was forced to spend tons of money changing the hardware  after it had gone out the door)   
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.9 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html     ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:43:11 +0800 3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> T Subject: There are none so blind (Was: Re: updated VMS Information (sent yesterday))1 Message-ID: <djkk8q$jrs$1@news-02.connect.com.au>   	 Hi Kerry,   H > Again, I am just curious to find out if someone knows of any site that( > is doing 2PC on Windows (not OpenVMS).  F I know of several, none of which want to be identified, but if you areK genuinely interested in tracking a site down then I suggest that you ask in K comp.databases.ms-sqlserver or microsoft.public.platformsdk.complus_mts (on J the msnews.microsoft.com server). Having said that it's probably easier toI ask one of your VMS Roadmap people for a copy of their extensive research  and customer-base surveys.  K On the other hand if you're simply repeating your "Zver are dem customers?" H mantra then your best to go on, like most people in this group, deludingH yourself that no one is doing anything serious with that "billy-box crapK disney-database virus-breeder" yadda yadda yadda more insults, abuse and so  on. . .    Regards Richard Maher   2 "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote in messageL news:FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB70C68D@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net...   > -----Original Message-----: > From: Richard Maher [mailto:maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com]  > Sent: October 22, 2005 8:13 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 7 > Subject: Re: updated VMS Information (sent yesterday)  >  > Hi Kerry,  > < > > First - I am certainly not the right resource talking in > detail about$ > > software strategies and futures. > < > That may be, but you're certainly not shy when it comes to > telling everyone6 > that two-phase commit transactions (heterogeneous or > otherwise) are a wasteD > of time and that absolutely no one out there in VMS is using them. >    Huh?   What are you talking about?   F I asked who in the Windows world was using 2PC - not OpenVMS .. I knowE many OpenVMS sites use it, but it is primarily VMS to VMS as far as I  know.   G I just have a really hard time trying to imagine (but certainly willing F to be corrected) of someone who needs HA and data consistency normally( associated with 2PC doing it on Windows.  H Perhaps the vendor recommended monthly security patches and virus issuesF are not a concern for them, but 2PC is typically reserved for the most critical data consistency.  F Again, I am just curious to find out if someone knows of any site that& is doing 2PC on Windows (not OpenVMS).  	 [snip ..]    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)   4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:44:12 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> X Subject: RE: There are none so blind (Was: Re: updated VMS Information (sent yesterday))R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB70C738@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----= > From: Richard Maher [mailto:maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com]=20   > Sent: October 25, 2005 2:43 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ; > Subject: There are none so blind (Was: Re: updated VMS=20  > Information (sent yesterday))  >=20 > Hi Kerry,  >=20? > > Again, I am just curious to find out if someone knows of=20  > any site that * > > is doing 2PC on Windows (not OpenVMS). >=20H > I know of several, none of which want to be identified, but if you are@ > genuinely interested in tracking a site down then I suggest=20 > that you ask in # > comp.databases.ms-sqlserver or=20 . > microsoft.public.platformsdk.complus_mts (on< > the msnews.microsoft.com server). Having said that it's=20 > probably easier to; > ask one of your VMS Roadmap people for a copy of their=20  > extensive research > and customer-base surveys. >=20@ > On the other hand if you're simply repeating your "Zver are=20 > dem customers?" = > mantra then your best to go on, like most people in this=20  > group, deluding = > yourself that no one is doing anything serious with that=20  > "billy-box crap : > disney-database virus-breeder" yadda yadda yadda more=20 > insults, abuse and so 	 > on. . .  >=20 > Regards Richard Maher   E I am not saying OpenVMS is the answer for world hunger. However, I am H aware of a number of migration projects started about 2-3 years ago thatE have been recently cancelled or seriously cut back because that group @ was just not able to deliver what they were goaled on. So, whileG announced to much fan fare 2-3 years ago, these projects are now in the B dust bin with the Customer now stating "ok, now what do we do?"=20  E I have no doubt that some Customers are doing some serious stuff with H Windows, because this type of stuff takes 2-3 years to change directionsF and in most cases, no one wants to admit they made a mistake. So, theyA push on until the bottom falls out e.g. major outage or breach of A Customer information data due to [pick one - virus, trojan, worm,  security hack]  G Having stated all this, and pure personal opinion, but I have to wonder D how they manage the QA and testing of the monthly vendor recommendedH security patches - most (not all) of which require system reboots. Heck,G the rolling out of virus, trojan and worms fix info across all of their E servers are almost (ok, almost) a non-issue compared to the amount of F effort to QA/test monthly security patches with their mission critical
 applications.   B And for those who think they do not need to do QA/testing of these$ monthly security patches, check out:  H http://news.com.com/Windows+patch+backfires+on+the+security-minded/2100- 1002_3-5897997.html E "Security-conscious Windows users who tweaked the operating system to F protect their PCs better are getting hit hardest by a flawed Microsoft patch, experts said Monday.=20  D Microsoft has acknowledged that a patch released last week can causeG trouble for some users. It could lock them out of their PC, prevent the G Windows Firewall from starting, block certain applications from running D or installing, and empty the network connections folder, among other: things, the software maker said in an advisory on Friday."  H http://www.computerworld.com/softwaretopics/os/story/0,10801,105453,00.h tml   4 Other recent news articles including holes in MSDTC:H http://news.com.com/Microsoft+plugs+Windows+worm+holes/2100-1002_3-58933 44.html?tag=3Dnl  3 http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1869991,00.asp   	 [snip...]    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Oct 2005 18:03:02 -02006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)X Subject: RE: There are none so blind (Was: Re: updated VMS Information (sent yesterday)), Message-ID: <435e7356$1@news.langstoeger.at>  | In article <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB70C738@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes:
 >[snip...]  O Please Kerry, don't tell us. We know it. Do tell it our bosses. Do advertize...    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:40:31 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>Y Subject: Re: There are none so blind (Was: Re: updated VMS Information (sent yesterday))  = Message-ID: <3et7f.60043$MF6.40799@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>    Main, Kerry wrote:  D > And for those who think they do not need to do QA/testing of these& > monthly security patches, check out: > J > http://news.com.com/Windows+patch+backfires+on+the+security-minded/2100- > 1002_3-5897997.html G > "Security-conscious Windows users who tweaked the operating system to H > protect their PCs better are getting hit hardest by a flawed Microsoft > patch, experts said Monday.   - Even by MS standards that one's a real blast:   & http://support.microsoft.com/kb/909444   SYMPTOMSF On a computer that is running Microsoft Windows XP, Microsoft Windows G 2000, or Windows Server 2003, one or more problems may occur after you  D install the critical update that is discussed in Microsoft Security 8 Bulletin MS05-051. These problems include the following:. 	The Windows Installer service may not start.- 	The Windows Firewall Service may not start. * 	The Network Connections folder is empty.H 	The Windows Update Web site may incorrectly recommend that you change @ the Userdata persistence setting in Microsoft Internet Explorer.I 	Active Server Pages (ASP) pages that are running on Microsoft Internet  H Information Services (IIS) return an HTTP 500  Internal Server Error  error message.8 	The Microsoft COM+ EventSystem service will not start.# 	COM+ applications will not start. C 	The computers node in the Microsoft Component Services Microsoft  . Management Console (MMC) tree will not expand.F 	Authenticated users cannot log on, and a blank screen appears after - the users apply the October Security Updates.    --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:03:47 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>Y Subject: Re: There are none so blind (Was: Re: updated VMS Information (sent yesterday))  3 Message-ID: <7su7f.15314$Kx2.9941@news.cpqcorp.net>    Alan Greig wrote:  >  >  > Main, Kerry wrote: > E >> And for those who think they do not need to do QA/testing of these ' >> monthly security patches, check out:  >>K >> http://news.com.com/Windows+patch+backfires+on+the+security-minded/2100-  >> 1002_3-5897997.htmlH >> "Security-conscious Windows users who tweaked the operating system toI >> protect their PCs better are getting hit hardest by a flawed Microsoft  >> patch, experts said Monday.   >  > / > Even by MS standards that one's a real blast:  > ( > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/909444 > 
 > SYMPTOMSH > On a computer that is running Microsoft Windows XP, Microsoft Windows I > 2000, or Windows Server 2003, one or more problems may occur after you  F > install the critical update that is discussed in Microsoft Security : > Bulletin MS05-051. These problems include the following:3 >     The Windows Installer service may not start. 2 >     The Windows Firewall Service may not start./ >     The Network Connections folder is empty. F >     The Windows Update Web site may incorrectly recommend that you I > change the Userdata persistence setting in Microsoft Internet Explorer. E >     Active Server Pages (ASP) pages that are running on Microsoft  E > Internet Information Services (IIS) return an HTTP 500  Internal   > Server Error error message.= >     The Microsoft COM+ EventSystem service will not start. ( >     COM+ applications will not start.H >     The computers node in the Microsoft Component Services Microsoft 0 > Management Console (MMC) tree will not expand.K >     Authenticated users cannot log on, and a blank screen appears after  / > the users apply the October Security Updates.  >   H I wouldn't call the Microsoft patch flawed.  The failure only occurs on > systems where the end-user changed protection on system-owned F directories and/or files.  Not much different than a VMS user putting D some funky ACL on [SYSLIB] and then being upset when a patch didn't ( install or ended up breaking the system.   --   John Reagan / HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Oct 2005 08:39:43 -02006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER). Subject: Re: USB SUPPORT ON DS10 ALPHA oPENvms, Message-ID: <435def4f$1@news.langstoeger.at>  a In article <djjmvc$rkj$1@rainier.uits.indiana.edu>, "B. Manwaring" <manwarin@indiana.edu> writes: H >Apologies to all you pros; I'm a relative greenhorn. Got several DS10s J >running 7.3 and they have USB plugs; can I format a memory stick and use I >it somehow, or take a VMS IDE drive with a USB interface and copy files   >back and forth?   No.   B With a later VMS version and a EV7 system, things might change ;-)   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:28:30 -0400 , From: Forrest Kenney <Forrest.Kenney@hp.com>. Subject: Re: USB SUPPORT ON DS10 ALPHA oPENvms& Message-ID: <435E6B3E.1032870C@hp.com>   Bill,   6 	This is not real simple and has been answered before.  A 1) There was real limited USB support in the V7.3 time frame but  C    for any hope of support you need to be at V7.3-2 or better still F    V8.2.  The official support for USB mass storage devices excluding     floppies is in V8.3 .  H 2) The USB mass storage support in V8.3 is limited to a small number of D    USB DVD readers.  We will only claim support for devices we have I    tested.  Having said that when ever someone shows up with a USB flash  H    drive, or disk I give it a quick test.  We have found and fixed more     than a few bugs this way.  G 3) In most cases what folk are really looking for is a way to exchange  D    files with a PC using a pen drive.  There are no plans to support thatB    in an release that I currently know about.  Folks have had some success 3    using the EFI$CP utility.  You mileage may vary.   G 4) If you get to V7.3-2 you can get a USB mass storage driver from the  F    freeware site.  There are intruction on what you need to do to get     it working.  ! 	Now on the issues with the DS10.   > 1) Depending upon what generation of firmware you have the USB
 controllerC    may be hidden from the O.S.  The hardware team when they decided  there D    was no use for USB on the DS10 modified the firmware to hide the F    controller from the O.S.  To see if it is visible do the following:  4 		a) set term/wid=132  ! Makes output easier to read 		b) Ana/System 8 		c) sda> clue config  ! look at controller display for + 				       a controller with no VMS device   				       associated to it.  G 2) If the DS10 had one then you can try to get it enabled you will need  to  F    get the PCI device ID from the clue config output and add and ettry or  G    it to sys$user_config.dat.  Just steal the one for the Lucent USS344     and change the device ID.  A 3) If it does not show up then you will need to buy an add in USB 
 controllerE    that uses the NEC USB controller chip.  The one Belklin sells uses  this  H    chip there are other.  You will need to be at V7.3-2 for this but you needC    to be there for the mass storage driver so that should not be an  issue.     Forrest Kenney OpenVMS engineering 0 I am the engineer who does most of the USB stuff       "B. Manwaring" wrote:  > H > Apologies to all you pros; I'm a relative greenhorn. Got several DS10sJ > running 7.3 and they have USB plugs; can I format a memory stick and useI > it somehow, or take a VMS IDE drive with a USB interface and copy files  > back and forth?  >  > regards, Bill    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.596 ************************