1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 26 Oct 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 597       Contents: AlphaServer GS140 For Sale Former Alpha Designers at Work" Re: Former Alpha Designers at Work" Re: Former Alpha Designers at Work% Getting W2K running services from VMS / Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today / Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today + Re: Intel confirms itanium will be late ... + Re: Intel confirms itanium will be late ... + Re: Intel confirms itanium will be late ... + Re: Intel confirms itanium will be late ... + Re: Intel confirms itanium will be late ... + Re: Intel confirms itanium will be late ...  Re: LASER symbiont  Re: LIB$WAIT & COBOL/VMS problem  Re: LIB$WAIT & COBOL/VMS problem  Re: LIB$WAIT & COBOL/VMS problem System disk booting problem  Re: System disk booting problem  Re: System disk booting problem C Re: There are none so blind (Was: Re: updated VMS Information (sent C Re: There are none so blind (Was: Re: updated VMS Information (sent C Re: There are none so blind (Was: Re: updated VMS Information (sent C Re: There are none so blind (Was: Re: updated VMS Information (sent C Re: There are none so blind (Was: Re: updated VMS Information (sent P Re: There are none so blind (Was: Re: updated VMS Information (sent   yesterday)P RE: There are none so blind (Was: Re: updated VMS Information (sent yesterday)) P Re: There are none so blind (Was: Re: updated VMS Information (sent yesterday)) % Re: USB SUPPORT ON DS10 ALPHA oPENvms % Re: USB SUPPORT ON DS10 ALPHA oPENvms % Re: USB SUPPORT ON DS10 ALPHA oPENvms   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 25 Oct 2005 16:04:00 -0700$ From: "ataylor" <kusoneko@gmail.com># Subject: AlphaServer GS140 For Sale C Message-ID: <1130281440.728060.170660@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>   G I'm selling my AlphaServer GS140. My friend that's hosting it for me is 1 moving, and I don't have room for it at my house.    Specs:   8x EV6 525Mhz CPUs 8Gb RAM E 6x 18Gb Hard Drives in the little arrays in the bottom of the chassis  7x SE SCSI Controllers 2x 10/100 Ethernet Controllers 1x 8 Port Serial Card  2x FC-AL Controllers (KGPSA-BY)   G I don't really know what these go for. I'd like to get $1250 for it. If E that's unreasonable, shoot me an offer. It's located in Tacoma, WA. I G can help you arrange shipping, and can deliver it at a loading dock for E you. If you're local, you could either pick it up, or I could deliver  it for a small fee.   : You can contact me at ataylor a.t subgeniuskitty d.o.t com   Thanks,     -Aaron Taylor   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:19:56 -0500 / From: "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> ' Subject: Former Alpha Designers at Work T Message-ID: <DA4AD590CAF06845B671C398333A89C60E346EA9@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>  
 According to: 5 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/10/24/pasemi_power/   ? DEC veterans prepare chip challenge for Intel, AMD, IBM and Sun   D By Ashlee Vance in Mountain View (ashlee.vance at theregister.co.uk), Published Monday 24th October 2005 21:23 GMT  K If you were contemplating starting an IT company, deciding to go up against K the likes of Intel, AMD, IBM, Sun Microsystems, Toshiba, Sony and TI with a G new processor probably wouldn't seem like the smartest or most feasible J idea. In fact, you'd likely characterize the idea as ludicrous with a dashJ of hopeless. That is unless you had assembled a ton of cash and an army of5 very talented and successful chip design mercenaries.   L PA Semi is this start-up hoping to turn a concept many might see as hopelessK into gold. It has recruited top engineers that worked on processors such as K DEC/Compaq/HP's Alpha chip, AMD's Opteron, Sun Microsystems' UltraSPARC and I even the lowly Itanium monster from Intel. These brains have come up with H their own take on IBM's Power processor design and developed a dual-coreG chip that will run at 2GHz while consuming between just 5-13 watts on a I typical software load. Such performance per watt figures would let the PA @ Semi PWRficient chips run in everything from embedded devices to supercomputers.   K "With this company, we are really driving a breakthrough in performance per J watt," said PA Semi's CEO Dan Dobberpuhl in an interview. "I think we will be way ahead of everyone."  H Dobberpuhl has earned the right to talk big. He's a legend in the IT andI chip industry in particular after leading much of the work with the Alpha J processor. As CEO of PA Semi, he has managed to secure millions in ventureK capital - enough cash in fact to hire close to 130 engineers and around 150 J total employees. Some of the class names on PA Semi's staff include Mister
 TanglewoodL (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/07/02/mister_tanglewood_tapped_as_intel/)I Peter Bannon, ex-AMD crazy man Wayne "I celebrate Michael Bolton's entire I catalogue" Meretsky, Jim "Hyper" Keller and just about every other former 9 DEC chip engineer not currently at HP, Intel, Sun or IBM.   F This team hopes to capitalize on the move toward green computing whereG systems run fast while consuming less power than in the past. PA Semi's K first processor - the PA6T-1682M - will sample in the third quarter of 2006 H as a 2GHz, dual-core product with two DDR2 memory controllers, 2MB of L2I cache, support for eight PCI Express controllers, two 10 Gigabit Ethernet H XAUI controllers, and four Gigabit Ethernet SGMII controllers sharing 24G serdes lanes. The product will ship widely in 2007 and be followed by a I single-core chip in early 2007 and a four-core chip in late 2007. PA Semi 3 also has plans for an eight-core processor in 2008.    It's not easy being green J The notion of green computing got its first mainstream attention thanks toJ the efforts of Los Alamos Labs whiz (http://public.lanl.gov/feng/) Wu-chunJ Feng and blade server pioneer Chris Hipp (http://www.hippster.com/). TheseJ two individuals pushed the use of the Transmeta processor in server blades
 back in 2002.   D At the time, most processor makers scoffed at the idea of using suchI low-performing chips in clusters even though the products improved system F up-time and delivered adequate horsepower for many applications. Then,G however, attitudes began to change as the likes of Sun and IBM revealed C plans for multicore chips that made use of slower than usual cores. J Processor makers had realized that they could no longer continue to up GHzL at historic levels because of heat issues and a disconnect between processor and memory performance.   L Eventually, AMD rolled out new 64-bit processor designs that proved far moreF energy efficient than competing chips from Intel, forcing Intel too toI change its play and adopt performance per watt marketing. Intel cancelled F plans (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10/14/intel_kills_4gh/) for aL 4.0GHz Pentium chip and reworked its server processor designs to make better8 use of dual and multicore technology. While Intel trailsH (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/10/20/intel_pax_bench/) rivals on theD green computing front, it has promised to deliver server and desktopJ products in 2006 that best the competition's performance per watt figures.
 We'll see.    L ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----   Cooler than coolJ The folks at PA Semi don't think the mainstream processor makers have goneK far enough. They have licensed IBM's Power design and claim to have created F a chip that is 3- to 9-times more efficient than even Intel's upcoming	 products.   E With such low power consumption, PA Semi hopes to get its products in H high-end printers/copiers, switches, security appliances, storage boxes,* servers and digital entertainment systems.  J For the geeks out there, PA Semi explains its chip architecture as follows  L The PWRficient family of platform processors is derived from a common set ofG fundamental architectural elements. A coherent, ordered crossbar called K CONEXIUM interconnects multiple Power cores, L2 caches, memory controllers, H and the ENVOI I/O subsystem. ENVOI combines a set of configurable serdesF lanes with a set of protocol controllers for such I/O standards as PCI4 Express, Gigabit Ethernet, and 10 Gigabit Ethernet. A These controllers share a bridge to CONEXIUM, as well as a set of H centralized DMA channels, offload engines, and a coherent I/O cache. TheI architecture supports a variety of offload engines, including support for D TCP/IP, iSCSI, cryptography (IPSec and SSL), and RAID. This layered,L scalable architecture results in versatile single-chip solutions that can beL quickly developed by combining the appropriate number of Power cores, memoryE controllers, and L2 caches with a suitable number of serdes lanes and  protocol controllers.   L P.A. Semi also employs a unique scalable-socket plan, which provides severalL options for performance upgrades or cost reductions with little or no designK effort. P. A. Semi defines a 'socket' (package, pinout, and power envelope) J by the number of memory controllers (up to four), the number of serdes I/OL lanes (up to 32), and the supported system peripherals. Each socket supportsK several performance levels by varying the number of cores (up to eight on a K chip) and the size of the L2 cache (up to 8MB). Within a socket definition, I processors are tailored to different applications by adjusting the number E and type of the high-speed I/O protocols (for example PCI Express, 10 L Gigabit Ethernet, 1 Gigabit Ethernet, SATA/SAS, RapidIO, and Fibre Channel).E Initial socket definitions include the 'E' socket (entry), 'M' socket L (midrange), and 'P' socket (performance). Customers can design to a specificD socket, instead of a specific processor, to enable easy migration to compatible processors.  < There's more detailed information on the chip available hereH (http://www.pasemi.com/processors/index.html), and we'll be covering theE first official unveiling of the processor family tomorrow at the Fall  Processor Forum in San Jose.   Chip giants don't fold easy J There's little doubt that PA Semi is the most interesting chip start-up toI come along in quite some time - probably since Transmeta. Its performance I per watt figures blow away anything the competition has revealed to date, G and it appears that the Power-based products could be a huge hit in the * server and storage markets, in particular.  I The problem here is that PA Semi's product doesn't arrive until 2007, and J it's almost impossible to say what Intel, AMD, IBM and Sun will be sellingF at that time. All of the companies have talked up impressive multicoreF designs, and they enjoy massive existing customer bases. Remember thatK Transmeta too had compelling technology but could not overcome the might of G Intel. Chip start-ups need flawless execution and gear that is not just = better but rather phenomenally better than standard products.   J In addition, PA Semi has picked the Power architecture, which seems like aI limiting play. It will piggyback on IBM's huge Linux on Power efforts and F benefit from this investment and the strength of Power's design. LinuxL customers, however, have proven time and again that they're most comfortableB with x86 chips. Take, for example, IBM's recent decision to cull a? Linux-only Power server line and open all boxes back up to AIX.   J What PA Semi has on its side is a team with proven credentials and a trulyH unique design. Industry watchers will keep a close eye on this start-up,G looking to see where its chips pop up first. If a couple of server wins / close, expect the big boys to get very nervous.    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Oct 2005 16:05:39 -0700 From: bob@instantwhip.com + Subject: Re: Former Alpha Designers at Work B Message-ID: <1130281539.506916.22800@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  6 why don't they license alpha and do an EV8 so we don't have to port to itanium? :)    ------------------------------   Date: 26 Oct 2005 01:34:46 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)+ Subject: Re: Former Alpha Designers at Work + Message-ID: <3s84pmFmtt1sU1@individual.net>   B In article <1130281539.506916.22800@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, 	bob@instantwhip.com writes:8 > why don't they license alpha and do an EV8 so we don't > have to port to itanium? :)   @ Because the Alpha isn't the architecture they are interested in.> And I doubt they care one way or the other about what VMS gets
 ported to.   bill    --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 25 Oct 2005 19:17:51 -0700 From: contracer11@gmail.com . Subject: Getting W2K running services from VMSB Message-ID: <1130293071.469165.98720@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   Hi all:   C Is there any way to issue a command from VMS system to a W2K or WNT 4 machine to see all services running in this system ?  @ I need get all services running in a specified W2K system, and IE think it will be more easy to me create a VMS procedure to manipulate $ this data than use W2K DOS commands.   Thanks in advance.   ------------------------------   Date: 25 Oct 2005 20:33:44 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march today+ Message-ID: <3s7j58Fmukk5U1@individual.net>   @ In article <Xns96FAD84D5DE5Bdocopenvmsrockscom@212.100.160.126>,$ 	Doc <doc@openvms-rocks.com> writes: > F > There's a theatre group in the UK called 7:84.  Who knows what this L > stands for, and what's the current value of the statistic they're talking  > about?  : 7% of the population of Scotland owns 84% of the wealth.    D A nice socialist statistic which, of course, does not address wetherI or not they actually earned it.  While I doubt that 93% of the population F of Scotland are lazy slugs, the number may be high enough to skew thisH statistic.  The same is true of most countries as well.  When we finallyF reach the point where one is no longer allowed to posess the fruits ofF their labor the term third world will become synonomous with the third rock from the sun.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 25 Oct 2005 14:08:32 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>8 Subject: Re: HP : Massive strike and protest march todayB Message-ID: <1130274512.559218.42520@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  
 Doc wrote:- > bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote in % > news:3s70dhFmne2nU1@individual.net:  > G > > In article <1130247442.184319.199630@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, / > >      "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:  > E > >>> > At another job a 150-Amp fuse in a line leading to one of our I > >>> > UPSes needed to be changed. By law only a union guy is allowed to  > >>> > do this. > H > >> I don't know the specifics. But if it is from the contract, then itI > >> may as well be law. All I really know is that only a union guy could 2 > >> touch it. I'm sorry I can't be more specific. > J > > I don't know about unions, but I have seen circuit breakers that couldG > > only be thrown by certified electricians.  And if you had ever seen G > > what flash-over looks like, you wouldn't make fun of the protective C > > gear they wear.  Electricity at those levels is nothing to take  > > lightly.    D Point taken. There was a switch on the box. But yes, that's a lot ofC power at high voltage. But still, he definitely took his sweet time + about it. He also had a bit of an attitude.     D > In the UK, I believe that, whilst not a requirement that qualifiedF > electricians join the country-wide union, it is a requirement of the< > union that all members be qualified to specific standards. > J > In this case, mandating that a union member do the job ensures that someI > check into the validity of the person's qualifications has been carried  > out. > J > I certainly wouldn't want to go anywhere near a 150-Amp fuse that needed > replaced.     F OK. But does it have to be a UNION electrician? Are there no qualified NON-union electricians?    AEF    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:02:31 -0600 " From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>4 Subject: Re: Intel confirms itanium will be late ...( Message-ID: <435E7337.12E802E7@mist.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > GreyCloud wrote:@ > > Do you mean the dual-core P4-D?  I already purchased on from > > HP. > > > But it turned out to be a dog so I took it back.  Waste of- > > good sand when they marry it with XP tho.  > H > Imagine the marketing potential if VMS ran on the 8086 and had supportJ > for dual core before Windows. VMS marketing could really takle advantage8 > of this and arrange to be seen to be AHEAD OF WINDOWS.  7 I'd say that his Billness (Gates) is very afraid of VMS  getting onto the x86 archs. 8 Seeing that Compaq had vms, and now HP and still nothing; done to port it over, it appears that the strong arm of the : monopoly power is at work.  Besides, why would HP on their$ web site say "HP recommends XP Pro"? Money talks.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:03:36 -0600 " From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>4 Subject: Re: Intel confirms itanium will be late ...( Message-ID: <435E7378.4F374C40@mist.com>   Alan Greig wrote:  >  > JF Mezei wrote:  >  > > GreyCloud wrote: > > @ > >>Do you mean the dual-core P4-D?  I already purchased on from > >>HP. > > >>But it turned out to be a dog so I took it back.  Waste of- > >>good sand when they marry it with XP tho.  > >  > >  > > J > > Imagine the marketing potential if VMS ran on the 8086 and had supportL > > for dual core before Windows. VMS marketing could really takle advantage > J > Windows already supports dual core Opteron, Athlon-64, Pentium and Xeon.N > VMS engineering would need to add time travel capability to get there first.  7 True, but no 64-bit drivers for any peripherals are out  there.< Which makes windows dead in the water for practical reasons.9 I had the dual core Intel with XP Pro on it... a waste of 
 good sand.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:23:38 GMT   From: CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net>4 Subject: Re: Intel confirms itanium will be late ...* Message-ID: <435E782B.1030305@prodigy.net>   GreyCloud wrote:   > Alan Greig wrote:  >  >>JF Mezei wrote:  >> >> >>>GreyCloud wrote:  >>>  >>> @ >>>>Do you mean the dual-core P4-D?  I already purchased on from >>>>HP. > >>>>But it turned out to be a dog so I took it back.  Waste of- >>>>good sand when they marry it with XP tho.  >>>  >>>  >>> I >>>Imagine the marketing potential if VMS ran on the 8086 and had support K >>>for dual core before Windows. VMS marketing could really takle advantage  >>J >>Windows already supports dual core Opteron, Athlon-64, Pentium and Xeon.N >>VMS engineering would need to add time travel capability to get there first. >  > 9 > True, but no 64-bit drivers for any peripherals are out  > there.  $ What peripheral requires 64-bitness?  > > Which makes windows dead in the water for practical reasons.; > I had the dual core Intel with XP Pro on it... a waste of  > good sand.     --  D The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt toC minimize spam.  Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:29:18 -0600 " From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>4 Subject: Re: Intel confirms itanium will be late ...' Message-ID: <435EF80E.F55F6EE@mist.com>   
 CJT wrote: >  > GreyCloud wrote: >  > > Alan Greig wrote:  > >  > >>JF Mezei wrote:  > >> > >> > >>>GreyCloud wrote:  > >>>  > >>> B > >>>>Do you mean the dual-core P4-D?  I already purchased on from	 > >>>>HP. @ > >>>>But it turned out to be a dog so I took it back.  Waste of/ > >>>>good sand when they marry it with XP tho.  > >>>  > >>>  > >>> K > >>>Imagine the marketing potential if VMS ran on the 8086 and had support M > >>>for dual core before Windows. VMS marketing could really takle advantage  > >>L > >>Windows already supports dual core Opteron, Athlon-64, Pentium and Xeon.P > >>VMS engineering would need to add time travel capability to get there first. > >  > > ; > > True, but no 64-bit drivers for any peripherals are out 
 > > there. > & > What peripheral requires 64-bitness?  7 Printers and just about anything else.  XP-64 won't run  32-bit drivers.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:30:53 -0600 " From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>4 Subject: Re: Intel confirms itanium will be late ...( Message-ID: <435EF86D.69DAC3CA@mist.com>   Alan Greig wrote:  >  > GreyCloud wrote: >  > > ; > > True, but no 64-bit drivers for any peripherals are out 
 > > there. > @ > Well I don't run 64 bit XP but I do know there are drivers forJ > peripherals. I guess not your particular ones! More and more drivers areG > being ported but you can't expect every manufacturer to create 64 bit  > drivers for old hardware.  >   2 I know.  HP is one that says they don't have them.  @ > > Which makes windows dead in the water for practical reasons.= > > I had the dual core Intel with XP Pro on it... a waste of  > > good sand. > H > But Windows XP Pro will still use both cores as SMP in 32 bit edition.H > So stick to 32 bit mode until your favourite driver is available in 64H > bit mode. If you really need 64 bit mode right now (as opposed to justJ > wanting to play with it) then your needs are so high end that you shouldE > be able to justify buying currently certified hardware and drivers.  >   ; Which is why I took the machine back.  I don't have time to 9 wait for M$ to get its act together in the 64-bit arena.  ; So, I went to another vendor that could supply everything I 
 need, now.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 00:23:05 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>4 Subject: Re: Intel confirms itanium will be late ...= Message-ID: <pvidnZHTY843mcLeRVn-jA@metrocastcablevision.com>    Alan Greig wrote:  >  >  > GreyCloud wrote: >  >>: >> True, but no 64-bit drivers for any peripherals are out	 >> there.  >  > A > Well I don't run 64 bit XP but I do know there are drivers for  K > peripherals. I guess not your particular ones! More and more drivers are  H > being ported but you can't expect every manufacturer to create 64 bit  > drivers for old hardware.  > ? >> Which makes windows dead in the water for practical reasons. < >> I had the dual core Intel with XP Pro on it... a waste of
 >> good sand.  >  > I > But Windows XP Pro will still use both cores as SMP in 32 bit edition.  I > So stick to 32 bit mode until your favourite driver is available in 64  I > bit mode. If you really need 64 bit mode right now (as opposed to just  K > wanting to play with it) then your needs are so high end that you should  E > be able to justify buying currently certified hardware and drivers.   G Simply creating a dual-boot environment (one 32-bit to support all the  F hardware, the other 64-bit for whatever the special needs may be) can ( often be an easy way around the problem.   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 25 OCT 2005 18:25:25 GMT+ From: Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov>  Subject: Re: LASER symbiont 2 Message-ID: <25OCT05.18252553@feda34.fed.ornl.gov>  G In a previous article, "GeorgeC" <gconstantinides@myrealbox.com> wrote: 	 > Hi all,  >   / > I am running OpenVMS V7.2-2 on an Alpha 1200.  >   ? > I have a few LAT print queues using the LASER print symbiont. A > These printers are connected to the network via Emulex (NETQUE) B > print servers.  The printers are fitted with ethernet interfacesA > so they are capable of being connected to the network directly.  >   F > I want to connect the printers directly on the network and eliminateB > the print servers. I can do that by converting the LAT queues toH > TCPIP queues and use the default TCPIP print symbiont TCPIP$TELNETSYM.4 > In fact, I do this already with some of my queues. > However there is a snag... >   I > User written applications rely on queue form definitions (LANDSCAPE,..) 4 > that do not work with the default TELNET symbiont. >   G > What are my options?  At this stage I want to avoid using DCPS, which B > I now believe is free and included in the standard distribution. >   G > Is there a more recent version of LASER (or similar) which works with  > TELNET queues?  B I'm behind in reading c.o.v, so you may have already decided to goH another route.  But, I thought I'd mention that I use the laser symbiontI on 7.3-2 on an alpha typically with older HP LaserJets that are connected D directly to the network.  I use a queue init command something like:  5   $ INIT/QUEUE queuename /ON="TCP%a.b.c.d:9100/s" ...   < where "a.b.c.d" is the host ip address and 9100 is the port.  H I don't know how my version of the symbiont compares with the one JosephF Huber offered, but I downloaded mine from MIT in Aug 1999.  (Actually,F that was just LASER.TLB.  The most recent code change I downloaded wasF LASER.C in Nov 1998.)  In 2001 I noted that the version I had appearedG newer than the one on the Process website.  I haven't looked at the one H on the Process site since.  I'll be glad to make my version available if you think it'll be of any use.   Dave --------------9 Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOV H Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 10:23:12 +0800 3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> ) Subject: Re: LIB$WAIT & COBOL/VMS problem 1 Message-ID: <djmpd8$oe4$1@news-02.connect.com.au>   
 Hi Briggs,  % > I was talking about Ada, not Cobol.    So are you saying that Ada: -   H a) Does not support the calling of an identifier/variable so the problem doesn't occur?  L b) Just somehow knows what will happen at run-time and therefore can vet the argument list?   Regards Richard Maher   + <briggs@encompasserve.org> wrote in message - news:bBJ4QWPUS8nT@eisner.encompasserve.org... C > In article <djk13p$o1g$1@news-02.connect.com.au>, "Richard Maher" % <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> writes:  > > Hi Briggs, > > 8 > > So how would the compiler handle a situation like: - > > 6 > > move sub_rtn_array (user_option) to my_identifier.( > > call my_identifier using some_stuff. > % > I was talking about Ada, not Cobol.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 10:19:47 +0800 3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> ) Subject: Re: LIB$WAIT & COBOL/VMS problem 1 Message-ID: <djmp6t$o64$1@news-02.connect.com.au>   
 Hi Briggs,   > No.  I'm not.  > 2 > And you're dead wrong about all other compilers.  J No, you're dead wrong! I was asking "John" Reagan :-) If your name happens- to be John then you certainly didn't tell me.    Regards Richard Maher   D PS. Did they get "The League of Gentlemen" (Series 1) in the States?  + <briggs@encompasserve.org> wrote in message - news:Ry8XtBlIR0RS@eisner.encompasserve.org... C > In article <djk21d$p7u$1@news-02.connect.com.au>, "Richard Maher" % <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> writes:  > > Hi John, > > C > > COBOL (and I'm sure all other compilers) also lets you stick BY 
 DESCRIPTOR= > > infront of most things to build a descriptor for you e.g.  > > + > > call "fred" using by descriptor "Hello" 9 > > call "jack" using by descriptor my_arrary(element_no)  > > (1:dynamic_runtime_len)  > > L > > But what you're telling us is that never in your 40 years of tending theE > > frogs at the "Local Shop" for "Pascal people" have you ever had a  > > requirement to: -  >  > No.  I'm not.  > 2 > And you're dead wrong about all other compilers. >    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Oct 2005 23:11:23 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ) Subject: Re: LIB$WAIT & COBOL/VMS problem 3 Message-ID: <vaLXcTLpKnoz@eisner.encompasserve.org>   g In article <djmp6t$o64$1@news-02.connect.com.au>, "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> writes:  > Hi Briggs, >  >> No.  I'm not. >>3 >> And you're dead wrong about all other compilers.  > L > No, you're dead wrong! I was asking "John" Reagan :-) If your name happens/ > to be John then you certainly didn't tell me.   ; Richard, you seem to be confused about the various Internet ? protocols.  One-to-one communications is handled via SMTP mail. I Your post was via NNTP news, the protocol for many-to-many communication.   F If you don't want answers from all participants, don't post in public.   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Oct 2005 15:06:07 -0700$ From: "Oblix" <oba_baby@hotmail.com>$ Subject: System disk booting problemB Message-ID: <1130277967.506881.95970@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  5 I am not an expert in OpenVMS so bare with me please.   F I have a Microvax 3100-95. When I try to boot on the system disk I get the following:   >>>Boot DKA300 (Boot/R5: 0 DKA300)      2..  -DKA300  ?56 DRVERR, DKA300 ?06 HLT INST             PC = 00000F39  Bootstrap failure. >>>   3 This message comes out after like 15 minutes or so. C This only happens when I try the boot command from the >>> console. D When The station is powered ON, it boots normally with no errors and! executes the startup batch files.   	 >>>SH DEV F shows normal results with the two SCSI drives seen by the BioS (I have 2 Disk Drives).   E I also tried to install a new CONNER CFP2105S SCSI drive with no use. B The SH DEV showed 7 Hard disks with the same size as the hard diskD drive. Now I know that the OpenVMS doesn't support more than 1.073GBD disk drives but that is for older versions of 3100-10x and 3100-20x.F What can I do to install this Drive properly. How can I access it from a stand alone backup tape?  ) Sorry for troubling you guys, and thanks.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 23:43:21 +0100 - From: John Laird <nospam@laird-towers.org.uk> ( Subject: Re: System disk booting problem8 Message-ID: <bqctl1t38bc2m2evgkfhdv5hdileatgc2m@4ax.com>  D On 25 Oct 2005 15:06:07 -0700, "Oblix" <oba_baby@hotmail.com> wrote:  6 >I am not an expert in OpenVMS so bare with me please. > G >I have a Microvax 3100-95. When I try to boot on the system disk I get  >the following:  >  >>>>Boot DKA300  >(Boot/R5: 0 DKA300) >    2.. >-DKA300 >?56 DRVERR, DKA300 
 >?06 HLT INST  >            PC = 00000F39 >Bootstrap failure.  >>>> > 4 >This message comes out after like 15 minutes or so.D >This only happens when I try the boot command from the >>> console.E >When The station is powered ON, it boots normally with no errors and " >executes the startup batch files.  I It would seem unlikely that root 0 on DKA300 is your default boot device, J then.  What does >>>SHOW BOOT return ?  Also, SHOW BFLG ?  Entering B/R5:0F forces an attempted boot from root 0.  If this is not the same as thatK specified in the high byte of BFLG, you are changing the boot sequence to a ! root that possibly does not work.   F With VMS, BLFG (or B:R5) can allow the use of up to 255 different root& directories.  0 is the normal default.  
 >>>>SH DEVG >shows normal results with the two SCSI drives seen by the BioS (I have  >2 Disk Drives). > F >I also tried to install a new CONNER CFP2105S SCSI drive with no use.C >The SH DEV showed 7 Hard disks with the same size as the hard disk E >drive. Now I know that the OpenVMS doesn't support more than 1.073GB E >disk drives but that is for older versions of 3100-10x and 3100-20x. G >What can I do to install this Drive properly. How can I access it from  >a stand alone backup tape?   B Seeing multiple instances of the same disk is usually a symptom ofI installing that disk with the same SCSI id as the host controller.  Older K Microvaxes and Vaxstations had this typically set to 6, and it could not be L changed.  My memory is hazy, but at a later stage this may have defaulted toJ 7, and could be altered at the >>> prompt.  But that may have been only on Alphas.  Try SHOW SCSI.    Hope this helps.   --    I don't want any Smeggin' toast!   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 00:41:20 +0200 - From: Alex van Denzel <vandenzel@hotmail.com> ( Subject: Re: System disk booting problem7 Message-ID: <435eb490$0$33610$dbd4d001@news.wanadoo.nl>    Oblix wrote:D > The SH DEV showed 7 Hard disks with the same size as the hard disk	 > drive.    G Seems like a SCSI ID conflict. Remember that the SCSI Controller could   be at ID 6, not at 7.    -- Alex.    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Oct 2005 15:37:28 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) L Subject: Re: There are none so blind (Was: Re: updated VMS Information (sent3 Message-ID: <BXdU0tN6lmkG@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <7su7f.15314$Kx2.9941@news.cpqcorp.net>, John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> writes:  J > I wouldn't call the Microsoft patch flawed.  The failure only occurs on @ > systems where the end-user changed protection on system-owned H > directories and/or files.  Not much different than a VMS user putting F > some funky ACL on [SYSLIB] and then being upset when a patch didn't * > install or ended up breaking the system.  B Folklore says that Microsoft systems often have files inadequatelyC protected for C2-equivalent purposes.  If the user modification was A to remedy that I would think Microsoft bears some responsibility.   > I think VMS installation procedures apply big hammers to avoid such issues.   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Oct 2005 16:00:32 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) L Subject: Re: There are none so blind (Was: Re: updated VMS Information (sent3 Message-ID: <6oF08WUN0CfW@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <7su7f.15314$Kx2.9941@news.cpqcorp.net>, John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> writes: >>   > J > I wouldn't call the Microsoft patch flawed.  The failure only occurs on @ > systems where the end-user changed protection on system-owned H > directories and/or files.  Not much different than a VMS user putting F > some funky ACL on [SYSLIB] and then being upset when a patch didn't * > install or ended up breaking the system. >   !    I would call the patch flawed.   F    When I do a patch on VMS, I am usually warned to log into SYSTEM orF    told what privileges I need.  If I use an insufficiently privileged@    account, that's my fault, whether due to an ACL I set or not.  <    When I do a patch on Windows, it generally wants me in anD    Administrator account.  From an Administrator account I should be@    able to apply the patch, no matter what the file protections.     D    Windows has a problem:  an Administrator group account is not TheC    Administrator account.  But you all thought it was just as good, 	    right?   A    Did you know it's possible in Windows to remove access to some 0    functions for an Administrator group account?   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Oct 2005 15:38:32 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) L Subject: Re: There are none so blind (Was: Re: updated VMS Information (sent3 Message-ID: <sJS3bzUbabJX@eisner.encompasserve.org>   f In article <tUu7f.8704$Bj2.7727@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>, Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net> writes: >  >  > John Reagan wrote: >  >>  K >> I wouldn't call the Microsoft patch flawed.  The failure only occurs on  A >> systems where the end-user changed protection on system-owned  I >> directories and/or files.  Not much different than a VMS user putting  G >> some funky ACL on [SYSLIB] and then being upset when a patch didn't  + >> install or ended up breaking the system.  >  > Go tell Kerry, not me.  I I don't think John, or anyone else here, is telling anyone in particular. ) We are all participating in a discussion.    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Oct 2005 15:43:12 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) L Subject: Re: There are none so blind (Was: Re: updated VMS Information (sent3 Message-ID: <Z8AtwYNk2Doh@eisner.encompasserve.org>   T In article <3s7dj4Fmhaj9U1@individual.net>, Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch> writes:   > John Reagan wrote:  K >> I wouldn't call the Microsoft patch flawed.  The failure only occurs on  A >> systems where the end-user changed protection on system-owned  I >> directories and/or files.  Not much different than a VMS user putting  G >> some funky ACL on [SYSLIB] and then being upset when a patch didn't  + >> install or ended up breaking the system.  >>   > E > Even when installing the VMS patch using the SYSTEM account, as is   > normally (always recommended?   A There have been occasional reports of software actually requiring ? the SYSTEM username, and that software is tragically broken for C use on a secured system.   The SYSTEM username should never be used A interactively except from the system console in defense against a  denial of service attack.   , Sharing of passwords defeats accountability.  E Thus the only reasonable way to have interactive access to the SYSTEM C username in a multi-person shop is to store a complex password in a B tamper-evident manner within the secured perimeter of the computer room.    ------------------------------   Date: 25 Oct 2005 22:02:03 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)L Subject: Re: There are none so blind (Was: Re: updated VMS Information (sent+ Message-ID: <3s7oaqFmp0soU1@individual.net>   3 In article <6oF08WUN0CfW@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:^ > In article <7su7f.15314$Kx2.9941@news.cpqcorp.net>, John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> writes: >>>  >>  K >> I wouldn't call the Microsoft patch flawed.  The failure only occurs on  A >> systems where the end-user changed protection on system-owned  I >> directories and/or files.  Not much different than a VMS user putting  G >> some funky ACL on [SYSLIB] and then being upset when a patch didn't  + >> install or ended up breaking the system.  >>   > # >    I would call the patch flawed.  > H >    When I do a patch on VMS, I am usually warned to log into SYSTEM orH >    told what privileges I need.  If I use an insufficiently privilegedB >    account, that's my fault, whether due to an ACL I set or not.  H But how can the patch possibly anticipate a local change to the security level of the system?   > > >    When I do a patch on Windows, it generally wants me in anF >    Administrator account.  From an Administrator account I should beB >    able to apply the patch, no matter what the file protections.  6 I can assure you this is not the case.  See below.....   >     F >    Windows has a problem:  an Administrator group account is not TheE >    Administrator account.  But you all thought it was just as good,  >    right?  > C >    Did you know it's possible in Windows to remove access to some 2 >    functions for an Administrator group account?  D Never mind system files.  Did you know there are User files that theA Administrator account does not have the ability do anything to?       bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 20:58:43 +0200 & From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>Y Subject: Re: There are none so blind (Was: Re: updated VMS Information (sent   yesterday) + Message-ID: <3s7dj4Fmhaj9U1@individual.net>    John Reagan wrote: > Alan Greig wrote:  >  >> >> >> Main, Kerry wrote:  >>F >>> And for those who think they do not need to do QA/testing of these( >>> monthly security patches, check out: >>> L >>> http://news.com.com/Windows+patch+backfires+on+the+security-minded/2100- >>> 1002_3-5897997.html I >>> "Security-conscious Windows users who tweaked the operating system to J >>> protect their PCs better are getting hit hardest by a flawed Microsoft  >>> patch, experts said Monday.  >> >> >>0 >> Even by MS standards that one's a real blast: >>) >> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/909444  >> >> SYMPTOMS I >> On a computer that is running Microsoft Windows XP, Microsoft Windows  J >> 2000, or Windows Server 2003, one or more problems may occur after you G >> install the critical update that is discussed in Microsoft Security  ; >> Bulletin MS05-051. These problems include the following: 4 >>     The Windows Installer service may not start.3 >>     The Windows Firewall Service may not start. 0 >>     The Network Connections folder is empty.G >>     The Windows Update Web site may incorrectly recommend that you  J >> change the Userdata persistence setting in Microsoft Internet Explorer.F >>     Active Server Pages (ASP) pages that are running on Microsoft F >> Internet Information Services (IIS) return an HTTP 500  Internal  >> Server Error error message. > >>     The Microsoft COM+ EventSystem service will not start.) >>     COM+ applications will not start. I >>     The computers node in the Microsoft Component Services Microsoft  1 >> Management Console (MMC) tree will not expand. F >>     Authenticated users cannot log on, and a blank screen appears 6 >> after the users apply the October Security Updates. >> > J > I wouldn't call the Microsoft patch flawed.  The failure only occurs on @ > systems where the end-user changed protection on system-owned H > directories and/or files.  Not much different than a VMS user putting F > some funky ACL on [SYSLIB] and then being upset when a patch didn't * > install or ended up breaking the system. >   C Even when installing the VMS patch using the SYSTEM account, as is   normally (always recommended?    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:06:18 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> Y Subject: RE: There are none so blind (Was: Re: updated VMS Information (sent yesterday))  R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB70C749@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message----- > From: Reagan, John=20   > Sent: October 25, 2005 2:04 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ? > Subject: Re: There are none so blind (Was: Re: updated VMS=20 7 > Information (sent yesterday)) yesterday)) yesterday))  >=20 > Alan Greig wrote:  > >=20 > >=20 > > Main, Kerry wrote: > >=20G > >> And for those who think they do not need to do QA/testing of these ) > >> monthly security patches, check out:  > >> > >>=20 @ > http://news.com.com/Windows+patch+backfires+on+the+security-mi > nded/2100- > >> 1002_3-5897997.html9 > >> "Security-conscious Windows users who tweaked the=20  > operating system to = > >> protect their PCs better are getting hit hardest by a=20  > flawed Microsoft# > >> patch, experts said Monday.=20  > >=20 > >=201 > > Even by MS standards that one's a real blast:  > >=20* > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/909444 > >=20 > > SYMPTOMS: > > On a computer that is running Microsoft Windows XP,=20 > Microsoft Windows=20= > > 2000, or Windows Server 2003, one or more problems may=20  > occur after you=20J > > install the critical update that is discussed in Microsoft Security=20< > > Bulletin MS05-051. These problems include the following:5 > > *    The Windows Installer service may not start. 4 > > *    The Windows Firewall Service may not start.1 > > *    The Network Connections folder is empty. J > > *    The Windows Update Web site may incorrectly recommend that you=20; > > change the Userdata persistence setting in Microsoft=20  > Internet Explorer.I > > *    Active Server Pages (ASP) pages that are running on Microsoft=20 I > > Internet Information Services (IIS) return an "HTTP 500 - Internal=20   > > Server Error" error message.? > > *    The Microsoft COM+ EventSystem service will not start. * > > *    COM+ applications will not start.B > > *    The computers node in the Microsoft Component Services=20 > Microsoft=202 > > Management Console (MMC) tree will not expand.A > > *    Authenticated users cannot log on, and a blank screen=20  > appears after=201 > > the users apply the October Security Updates.  > >=20 >=20B > I wouldn't call the Microsoft patch flawed.  The failure only=20 > occurs on=20B > systems where the end-user changed protection on system-owned=20J > directories and/or files.  Not much different than a VMS user putting=20H > some funky ACL on [SYSLIB] and then being upset when a patch didn't=20* > install or ended up breaking the system. >=20       John,=20  H Yeah, but many Windows system directories (at least with W2K, and by theG above KB indication, W2K3 as well) had W:re on them (W:rwe in some as I E recall), so OS hardening with these types of activities is a standard C practice in many Windows shops concerned about security. I can only G surmise that the patches somehow assumed that the default very open dir  prot's were still in place.   E Regardless of the issue, many shops who blindly applied the Microsoft E recommended monthly security patches got caught with their pants down A big time. This really supports the concept that one needs to test 1 changes before they are moved into production.=20   H Heck, although I usually do not have to state this obvious best practice4 to them, I say the same thing for OpenVMS Customers.  H The challenge with Windows (and Linux to btw) environments is that thereB are so many security patches (RH Linux announced over 235 securityC patches this year alone on their web site) that this QA/testing can < become a full time activity - never mind the new applicationF functionality that the business groups want the QA groups to focus on.   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 20:44:53 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>Y Subject: Re: There are none so blind (Was: Re: updated VMS Information (sent yesterday))  3 Message-ID: <9Pw7f.15335$KC2.4778@news.cpqcorp.net>   I You have all the same permission errors on the Macintosh OS X as well by   the way.  F Apple "fixed" it with the "fix file permissions" option on their disk I first aid tool.  The standard practice before installing OS X updates is  D to fix the file permissions before and after.  The state of the art  isn't any better elsewhere.    --   John Reagan / HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Oct 2005 13:44:06 -0700 From: stuie_norris@yahoo.com.au . Subject: Re: USB SUPPORT ON DS10 ALPHA oPENvmsC Message-ID: <1130273046.387119.295430@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Hi Forrest,   H > Depending upon what generation of firmware you have the USB controller > may be hidden from the O.S  ? Does the same apply for the DS10L or is this just for the DS10.   E Would love to get it to work on a 666Mhz DS10L so I can have graphics  (DecWindows) and USB.    Thanks   Stuart   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:26:59 -0400 , From: Forrest Kenney <Forrest.Kenney@hp.com>. Subject: Re: USB SUPPORT ON DS10 ALPHA oPENvms& Message-ID: <435EB133.75FC3425@hp.com>  ; 	I have never had my hands on a DS10L but I assume the same B restrictions apply.  Note that you would not be able to have a VGAC console.  There is 0 support for USB in the alpha consoles with the B exceptions for the GS1280's and ES47's.  So if the DS10L has 2PCI D slots you can get what you want.  I would strongly encourage you to  try this on V8.2.      Forrest     stuie_norris@yahoo.com.au wrote: > 
 > Hi Forrest,  > J > > Depending upon what generation of firmware you have the USB controller > > may be hidden from the O.S > A > Does the same apply for the DS10L or is this just for the DS10.  > G > Would love to get it to work on a 666Mhz DS10L so I can have graphics  > (DecWindows) and USB.  >  > Thanks >  > Stuart   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Oct 2005 18:58:14 -0700; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> . Subject: Re: USB SUPPORT ON DS10 ALPHA oPENvmsC Message-ID: <1130291894.476325.315950@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>    Forrest Kenney wrote: < > I have never had my hands on a DS10L but I assume the sameD > restrictions apply.  Note that you would not be able to have a VGAE > console.  There is 0 support for USB in the alpha consoles with the C > exceptions for the GS1280's and ES47's.  So if the DS10L has 2PCI E > slots you can get what you want.  I would strongly encourage you to  > try this on V8.2.  >  > 	 > Forrest  > " > stuie_norris@yahoo.com.au wrote: > >  > > Hi Forrest,  > > L > > > Depending upon what generation of firmware you have the USB controller  > > > may be hidden from the O.S > > C > > Does the same apply for the DS10L or is this just for the DS10.  > > I > > Would love to get it to work on a 666Mhz DS10L so I can have graphics  > > (DecWindows) and USB.  > > 
 > > Thanks > > 
 > > Stuart  G The DS10L only has 1 PCI slot and no built-in graphics capability so if D the on-board USB won't work you'd need a Video/USB combo board which6 AFAIK doesn't exist and probably wouldn't work anyway.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.597 ************************