1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 21 Aug 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 466       Contents: Re: Australian DECUSI Re: Cerner hopefully is using Zotob to show why hospitals should run VMS! P Re: Cerner hopefully is using Zotob to show why hospitals should run VMS! VMS! VP RE: Cerner hopefully is using Zotob to show why hospitals should run VMS! VMS! VP RE: Cerner hopefully is using Zotob to show why hospitals should run VMS! VMS! VP RE: Cerner hopefully is using Zotob to show why hospitals should run VMS! VMS! VP Re: Cerner hopefully is using Zotob to show why hospitals should run VMS! VMS! VP Re: Cerner hopefully is using Zotob to show why hospitals should run VMS! VMS! VP Re: Cerner hopefully is using Zotob to show why hospitals should run VMS! VMS! VP Re: Cerner hopefully is using Zotob to show why hospitals should run VMS! VMS! VP Re: Cerner hopefully is using Zotob to show why hospitals should run VMS! VMS!VMP Re: Cerner hopefully is using Zotob to show why hospitals should run VMS! VMS!VMP Re: Cerner hopefully is using Zotob to show why hospitals shouldrun VMS! VMS! VM Re: DECWindows Motif on VAX  Re: DECWindows Motif on VAX / Re: Finding virtual disks (Was:  SAMBA for VMS)   Re: Highwater marking experience  Re: Highwater marking experienceP Re: How many files can you have in a VMS directory without performance problems?P Re: How many files can you have in a VMS directory without performance problems?7 Re: LDDRIVER original developer (was Re: SAMBA for VMS) ( Re: Next project, C programming problem.( Re: Next project, C programming problem.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 13:21:18 -0400 ' From: Glenn Everhart <Everhart@gce.com>  Subject: Re: Australian DECUS , Message-ID: <LrWdnbqsOJQfJZXeRVn-1w@rcn.net>   John Proctor wrote:   C > I wrote to the current address for the Australian DECUS to get a  J > membership as I want to become part of the hobbyist programme. As yet I 2 > have had no response and it is over 4 weeks now. > B > I used to work for DEC as a Software Services manager in Sydney G > (1977-1979) and a salesman before going to a DEC customer (Alcan) to  J > manage their VAX sytems (1980-1985). I have an opportunity to acquire a H > 3300 at no cost to me so I am interested in getting it up and running. > A > Is there an alternative way to get a DECUS membership so I can  ) > partticipate in the hobbyist programme?  > @ Last sigtapes sent to the Australian DECUS office were returned.% Appears they are not around any more.  Glenn Everhart   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Aug 2005 14:58:05 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)R Subject: Re: Cerner hopefully is using Zotob to show why hospitals should run VMS!, Message-ID: <3mrj3tF183rijU1@individual.net>  0 In article <11gfhh5ahbroqe4@corp.supernews.com>,* 	Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:F >> In article <1124565228.925988.212330@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, >> 	bob@instantwhip.com writes:  >>  G >>>"This is a good example of why you can't protect a weak OS with some I >>>router only because if something happens from tyhe inside, you are hit  >>>just as badly." >>> 5 >>>so why haven't all these windoze cios figured this  >>>out yet and switched to vms?  >>   >>  H >> Because the security provided by VMS carries with it the same penalty: >> as a secured windows box.  No real world functionality. >>   >> bill  >>   >  > Now that I'll not agree with.   0 Wether you agree or not does not change reality.   > J > If you define real world functionality being able to run MS Office, and I > some do, then you have a point.  But MS Office isn't the only thing in   > the world worth doing.  C What is the current function of the largest percentage of computers D in use today?  Server apps?  Or Desktop apps?  Where are the largestE number of Windows boxes that get infected with the virus-du-jour?  In $ the server room?  Or on the desktop?  F So, where does VMS have to take over to have any impact on the currentB situation?  And, what possibility is there of that ever happening?   Sorry, reality check.   E Could this be changed?  Certainly.  Will it? I leave that one to you.    bill    --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 21 Aug 2005 06:58:19 -0700 From: bob@instantwhip.com Y Subject: Re: Cerner hopefully is using Zotob to show why hospitals should run VMS! VMS! V C Message-ID: <1124632699.015354.270800@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>   2 you can on vms because vms doesn't get viruses ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 12:31:20 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> Y Subject: RE: Cerner hopefully is using Zotob to show why hospitals should run VMS! VMS! V R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB6B2046@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----> > From: David J Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@comcast.net]=20  > Sent: August 21, 2005 11:25 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com = > Subject: Re: Cerner hopefully is using Zotob to show why=20 % > hospitals should run VMS! VMS! VMS!  >=20   [snip..]   >=20A > > So, where does VMS have to take over to have any impact on=20 
 > the current  > > situation?=20  >=20F > See recent discussions surrounding the idea of having VMS-based mail > exchangers and such. >=20: > > And, what possibility is there of that ever happening? >=20G > Depends, mostly on us. Will HP/VMS ever produce/market such a product A > suite? Most likely responses based on experience to date: No=20  > / No. That > leaves the ball in our court.  >=20   [snip..]  D Something to consider with respect to OpenVMS mail based solutions -$ imagine a mail server solution that:) - has zero server viruses to worry about.  - ultra-high native OS security   - web based or command line mgmtH - multi-site clusters scalable to 3,000+ cpus in datacenters up to 800km apart : - end users load balanced across all servers at all sites.H - shutdown servers and even an entire site for proactive management with$ zero application availability impact   A total solution -  8 OpenVMS and Communigate Pro + Sophos + Process Software:- http://h71000.www7.hp.com/solutions/mail.html 9 http://www.stalker.com/content/news_article_01252005.html F http://www.sophos.com/pressoffice/pressrel/us/20050322stalkersoft.html	 (Virus's) C http://www.process.com/precisemail/faq.html#partner (Spam, viruses)   H Anyone think this might be of interest to companies now concerned aboout< SOX/HIPPA and not having server issues related to the latest worms/viruses/trojans?  ; And some press reviews to support creative new initiatives:     "Time for a Mail Server Switch?"F http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1849784,00.asp (see references to Communigate Pro)  B Communigate Pro review (keep Outlook clients, but replace Exchange( Server with OpenVMS and Communigate Pro)6 http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1846661,00.asp=20  7 Stalker Software (Communigate Pro) comments on OpenVMS: G http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/integrity/integrity_video_script.html 
 (scroll down) A "We worked with HP on the porting project of OpenVMS to Integrity G servers, and found their UNIX to OpenVMS toolkit and the HP engineering < team support to be the best we have seen in the industry.=20  < In fact, we already have several customers who are preparingE implementations of the CommuniGate Pro Dynamic Cluster on OpenVMS for  Integrity servers."    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 10:41:13 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> Y Subject: RE: Cerner hopefully is using Zotob to show why hospitals should run VMS! VMS! V R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB6B2042@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----4 > From: Alan Greig [mailto:greigaln@netscape.net]=20 > Sent: August 21, 2005 7:51 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com = > Subject: Re: Cerner hopefully is using Zotob to show why=20 ? > hospitals should run VMS! VMS! VMS! run VMS! VMS! VMS! run=20  > VMS! VMS! VMS! >=20 >=20 >=20 > Main, Kerry wrote: >=20 > >=20? > > And you reminded me that Spybot anti-spyware utility has=20  > the capabilityE > > to write protect the host/lmhost file on a windows box and protct , > > against crap like this worm making chgs. >=20 > Kerry, >=20H > So does, for example MS-Anti-Spyware. The big flaw here is that any=20G > anti-spyware/anti-virus can only protect if it spots the infection=20 G > first. Typically one of the first things a virus will do is try to=20 G > detect and disable any protection software. A brand new virus will=20 I > almost always get through any defences. I have seen many cases where=20 E > people think they are protected but the machine is littered with=20 H > infections because the virus entered their machine before a pattern=20@ > engine update took place. Even worse attempting to manually=20 > remove the=20 C > virus is sometimes the trigger to cause the virus to switch to=20  > destructive mode.  >=20J > By the way one particular virus variant didn't search peoples address=20I > books for users to email to. It used a fixed file which it stored on=20 @ > various webservers around the world. My  virgin.net account=20 > was in that=20I > fairly small list and I received hundreds of mesages per hour at one=20 G > point. To add insult to injury Symantec reported that infection as=20 H > "Number of Infections Worldwide less than 10". The initial batch of=20J > these incoming got through Virgin's virus scanner and a half-awake me=20J > almost opened what claimed to be an attachment containing RFC822 SMTP=20B > transaction error details. My own virus scanner went off with=20 > a generic=20A > warning that a text file inside the zip archive was actually=20  > a disguised=20J > executable (it's name was such that the trailing .COM was outside the=20J > display column width). I immediately initiated a manual update of the=20@ > pattern engine and only then did it identify the virus as a=20 > particular=20 I > nasty backdoor engine. What I'm am still curious about is why it was=20 B > listed as  first identified about a month previously but "not=20
 > known in=20  > wild". >=209 > So you should never assume that just because you are=20  > "protected" you can=20  > leave eveything on auto-pilot. >=20 >=20 > --=20  > Alan Greig >=20   Alan,    Yep - good points. =20  G As a consultant, because I occasionally have Cust doc's on my laptop, I G am always super careful with the virus stuff. As an example for my home  PC's: G - Linksys firewall, but home fw's go without saying these days - unless # you are using OpenVMS of course :-) % - my home DMZ system is OpenVMS Alpha H - Norton anti-virus are def's checked via Symantec site and loaded a few times every day =20 G - Norton AV runs entire PC every day at 3:00 AM (one of the reasons why  I leave PC's on.. - Spybot runs in auto mode every day at 5:00AM9 - I manually run AdAware spyware about 1 every 2-3 weeks. F - I do not do the auto-update of fixes from MS on my laptop (they haveH broken stuff before), but do have it on for other PC's at home where notE so much non-std stuff is loaded. I manually do the updates about once E every 2 weeks or when something big happens in press. (yes, that is a 
 trade-off)  G When dealing with Cust's, one the absolute worst things a consultant or H anyone dealing with clients can do is send a doc or report or email that# has some kind of virus attached.=20   E Now, when looking at all of the damage caused in the last week or so, H one could easily blame the companies IT staff (as many *analysts* in theH Windows world media seem to be doing), but that would not be correct.=20  G Every IT shop worth their salt will *not* blindly apply patches without D some level of QA/testing in pre-production environments. The risk ofH breaking all sorts of customized scripts and applications is just way toD high. Heck, many of these large IT shops typically have hundreds and< sometimes literally thousands of Wintel servers to maintain.  D These IT Staff have real day jobs that are concerned with QA/testingE real software applications that add value to the Business Units. They C simply do not have the time and/or resources to keep daily watch on  these OS patch type issues.=20  ; Hence, one of the biggest hidden costs with these platforms C (windows/Linux) is the cost in terms of staff resources and time to 3 QA/test/roll-out these monthly security patches.=20   C At some point, I have to think, Customers are going to be forced to  scream *enough!!*   A And with visibility like this, perhaps the questions have already  started:; http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=3D25556  (Aug 19, 2005) / Virus brings down US Homeland Security - report C "COMPUTER VIRUSES affected numerous American international airports D yesterday, forcing the Custom & Border Protection system to stop for% hours, said the Wall Street Journal."    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 11:40:30 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> Y Subject: RE: Cerner hopefully is using Zotob to show why hospitals should run VMS! VMS! V R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB6B2045@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----4 > From: Alan Greig [mailto:greigaln@netscape.net]=20  > Sent: August 21, 2005 10:41 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com = > Subject: Re: Cerner hopefully is using Zotob to show why=20 ? > hospitals should run VMS! VMS! VMS! run VMS! VMS! VMS! run=20  > VMS! VMS! VMS! >=20 >=20 >=20 > bob@instantwhip.com wrote: >=206 > > you can on vms because vms doesn't get viruses ... >=20= > If passwords and systems are insecure any system can get=20  > attacked. Have=20 ; > you ever heard of the infamous VMS WANK (Worms Against=20  > Nuclear Killers)=20 ? > Worm from about 15 years ago? A lot of lessons were learnt=20  > the hard way=20  > back then. >=20 > --=20  > Alan Greig >=20   Alan,   F I am certainly no security guru, but my understanding is that virus's,H Trojans and worms success depends primarily not on password hacking, but  in known holes in specific OS's.  F The statement around OpenVMS is not that there has never been or neverG will be an OpenVMS virus, but rather there are no known OpenVMS viruses C today. Quoting an virus example for OpenVMS that is 15 years old is . imho, an excellent testimonial for OpenVMS.=20  
 Reference:< http://www.sophos.com/support/knowledgebase/article/156.htmlC "There are currently no known viruses which infect OpenVMS systems. C However, it is often useful for an OpenVMS system to scan files for - viruses which infect other operating systems.   6 This could be the case when an OpenVMS system is used:7 - As a file server for Windows computers and Macs (e.g.  Pathworks/Advanced Server).=20) - To provide an ALL-IN-1 file cabinet.=20 7 - For processing email with attachments (e.g. PMDF).=20   E In addition, Sophos Anti-Virus for OpenVMS installed as an InterCheck D server for central virus reporting can provide on-access logging for client computers."  D Those not familiar with OpenVMS security design and/or features willE typically now chime in and state that it is because OpenVMS is not as . popular as Windows/Linux, but that is crap.=20  D Course, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, so now insert the standard "yeahbuts .."   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 16:12:56 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>Y Subject: Re: Cerner hopefully is using Zotob to show why hospitals should run VMS! VMS! V ; Message-ID: <cK1Oe.7845$5m3.3390@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>    Main, Kerry wrote:   > H > I am certainly no security guru, but my understanding is that virus's,J > Trojans and worms success depends primarily not on password hacking, but" > in known holes in specific OS's.  G The Worm didnt' exploit any actual flaws in VMS but it did exploit its  H features as well as password weaknesses. It made use of DECNET proxies, G FAL, remote tasks, PHONE, VMS Mail etc. The only systems it left alone  E were those on DEC's internal network in New Zealand - it checked the  D DECNET area and exited on these hosts. There's a book on the people F believed to be "close to the creators" (they were Australian) which I I don't think was published outside Australia. I'll have a look for it. Of  F course these days the defaults you get when installing VMS and DECNET A are different - mainly because of this worm. More information at  . http://www.cert.org/advisories/CA-1989-04.html  
 Which begins:  "	3 CERT Advisory CA-1989-04 WANK Worm On SPAN Network % Original issue date: October 17, 1989   Last revised: September 17, 1997 Attached copyright statement  7 A complete revision history is at the end of this file.   G On 16 October, the CERT received word from SPAN network control that a  H worm was attacking SPAN VAX/VMS systems. This worm affects only DEC VMS I systems and is propagated via DECnet protocols, not TCP/IP protocols. If  H a VMS system had other network connections, the worm was not programmed I to take advantage of those connections. The worm is very similar to last  ) year's HI.COM (or Father Christmas) worm.   H This is NOT A PRANK. Serious security holes are left open by this worm. D The worm takes advantage of poor password management, modifies .com F files, creates a new account, and spreads to other systems via DECnet.  D It is also important to understand that someone in the future could G launch this worm on any DECnet based network. Many copies of the virus  K have been mailed around. Anyone running a DECnet network should be warned."      --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 13:11:23 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> Y Subject: Re: Cerner hopefully is using Zotob to show why hospitals should run VMS! VMS! V , Message-ID: <4308B5BA.685957CF@teksavvy.com>   "Main, Kerry" wrote:I > When dealing with Cust's, one the absolute worst things a consultant or J > anyone dealing with clients can do is send a doc or report or email that" > has some kind of virus attached.      D I remember getting a call from a customer in NYC telling me that the3 diskette I had sent them was infected with a virus.   F The diskette had been created on a MAC and I had moved just text filesA to it.   Seems their PC virus detection had seen the MAC resource F directory (resource forks stored in a separate directory from the data@ files when copied to a DOS disk) and probably called it a virus.  G The customer could not give me any details on the name/type of virus. I F had a hard time explaining that the diskette had been created on a MAC4 and that it couldn't possibly contain a PC virus :-)   Still, it looks bad.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 11:50:41 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>Y Subject: Re: Cerner hopefully is using Zotob to show why hospitals should run VMS! VMS! V : Message-ID: <lUZNe.7374$5m3.102@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>   Main, Kerry wrote:   > I > And you reminded me that Spybot anti-spyware utility has the capability C > to write protect the host/lmhost file on a windows box and protct * > against crap like this worm making chgs.   Kerry,  D So does, for example MS-Anti-Spyware. The big flaw here is that any C anti-spyware/anti-virus can only protect if it spots the infection  C first. Typically one of the first things a virus will do is try to  C detect and disable any protection software. A brand new virus will  E almost always get through any defences. I have seen many cases where  A people think they are protected but the machine is littered with  D infections because the virus entered their machine before a pattern G engine update took place. Even worse attempting to manually remove the  ? virus is sometimes the trigger to cause the virus to switch to   destructive mode.   F By the way one particular virus variant didn't search peoples address E books for users to email to. It used a fixed file which it stored on  H various webservers around the world. My  virgin.net account was in that E fairly small list and I received hundreds of mesages per hour at one  C point. To add insult to injury Symantec reported that infection as  D "Number of Infections Worldwide less than 10". The initial batch of F these incoming got through Virgin's virus scanner and a half-awake me F almost opened what claimed to be an attachment containing RFC822 SMTP H transaction error details. My own virus scanner went off with a generic I warning that a text file inside the zip archive was actually a disguised  F executable (it's name was such that the trailing .COM was outside the F display column width). I immediately initiated a manual update of the G pattern engine and only then did it identify the virus as a particular  E nasty backdoor engine. What I'm am still curious about is why it was  G listed as  first identified about a month previously but "not known in   wild".  I So you should never assume that just because you are "protected" you can   leave eveything on auto-pilot.     --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 14:41:11 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>Y Subject: Re: Cerner hopefully is using Zotob to show why hospitals should run VMS! VMS! V : Message-ID: <bo0Oe.9611$jr4.424@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>   bob@instantwhip.com wrote:  4 > you can on vms because vms doesn't get viruses ...  H If passwords and systems are insecure any system can get attacked. Have H you ever heard of the infamous VMS WANK (Worms Against Nuclear Killers) H Worm from about 15 years ago? A lot of lessons were learnt the hard way 
 back then.   --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 10:26:22 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>Y Subject: Re: Cerner hopefully is using Zotob to show why hospitals should run VMS! VMS!VM + Message-ID: <43089D1E.36FB99DF@comcast.net>    GreyCloud wrote: >  > bob@instantwhip.com wrote: > > 9 > > what have you been drinking?  I can give any user any = > > functionality I want ... what real world functionality is  > > missing in your world? > ; > I still don't understand, after all the noise made by the < > insecurity of M$ windows, that those responsible for their! > IT budget still buy M$ windows.   3 See http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?addiction    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 10:25:05 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>Y Subject: Re: Cerner hopefully is using Zotob to show why hospitals should run VMS! VMS!VM + Message-ID: <43089CD1.67078A97@comcast.net>    Bill Gunshannon wrote: > 2 > In article <11gfhh5ahbroqe4@corp.supernews.com>,3 >         Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  > > Bill Gunshannon wrote:H > >> In article <1124565228.925988.212330@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,% > >>      bob@instantwhip.com writes:  > >>I > >>>"This is a good example of why you can't protect a weak OS with some K > >>>router only because if something happens from tyhe inside, you are hit  > >>>just as badly." > >>> 7 > >>>so why haven't all these windoze cios figured this ! > >>>out yet and switched to vms?  > >> > >>J > >> Because the security provided by VMS carries with it the same penalty< > >> as a secured windows box.  No real world functionality. > >>	 > >> bill  > >> > > ! > > Now that I'll not agree with.  > 2 > Wether you agree or not does not change reality.  B So, a laptop on an airplane with no network connection is useless?   Reality double-check...    > > K > > If you define real world functionality being able to run MS Office, and J > > some do, then you have a point.  But MS Office isn't the only thing in > > the world worth doing. > E > What is the current function of the largest percentage of computers F > in use today?  Server apps?  Or Desktop apps?  Where are the largestG > number of Windows boxes that get infected with the virus-du-jour?  In & > the server room?  Or on the desktop?  G The virus count for M$-DOS was well into the tens of thousands prior to F the dawn of WhineBloze which was preceded the earliest versions of theF products that came to be known as M$-Orifice. I still have M$-Word for$ DOS diskettes around here somewhere.  H > So, where does VMS have to take over to have any impact on the current
 > situation?    D See recent discussions surrounding the idea of having VMS-based mail exchangers and such.  8 > And, what possibility is there of that ever happening?  E Depends, mostly on us. Will HP/VMS ever produce/market such a product G suite? Most likely responses based on experience to date: No / No. That  leaves the ball in our court.    > Sorry, reality check.   > %RQP-I-OPEROVER, Request check over-ride requested by operator  G > Could this be changed?  Certainly.  Will it? I leave that one to you.   E ...or, at the very least, the entrepreneurially inclined among us who ? are willing/able to go for it. There's gotta some, somewhere...    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 13:16:28 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> Y Subject: Re: Cerner hopefully is using Zotob to show why hospitals shouldrun VMS! VMS! VM , Message-ID: <4308B6EB.B007786F@teksavvy.com>   Alan Greig wrote: F > job. Hyper amusingly CNN were one of the firms hit. But remember theE > bosses at CNN probably believe this expert over their own IT staff.     C Yes, CNN, the network that used to sport VT terminals on its anchor K desks.  They deserve every viri they get for dumping VMS and going Windows.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 13:29:02 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> $ Subject: Re: DECWindows Motif on VAX, Message-ID: <4308B9DB.DC0D5469@teksavvy.com>   Alan Greig wrote: F > other utilities - I can even start the session manager. Trouble is I> > can't start a DECterm. CREATE/TERM/DET just hangs for ever.   B Have you tried to start decterm from the session manager on your X
 terminal ?  G Also have you tried MC DEC$TERMINAL on the VT screen ? This would force D any error message  output to your VT screen and you may get a better idea of what is wrong.  J > When I installed Motif it pointed this out but allowed me to continue. I5 > then used decw$tailor to install the base support.    I I would re-install Motif over the DECW base support. And start with 1.2-5   D There is no longer any quality control or support for VAX software. E 1.2-6 was probably just released to remove display postscript support : and I doiubt they did much quiality control on it for VAX.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 17:45:26 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>$ Subject: Re: DECWindows Motif on VAX; Message-ID: <W43Oe.7891$5m3.1647@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>    JF Mezei wrote:    > D > Have you tried to start decterm from the session manager on your X > terminal ?   Tried that.   I > Also have you tried MC DEC$TERMINAL on the VT screen ? This would force F > any error message  output to your VT screen and you may get a better > idea of what is wrong.  3 Yep I've tried that. There's no error but I do see:   D DECterm version T1.2-6 compiled at Feb 21 2001 23:31:03 now at your 
 service...  0 T1.2-6?? Doesn't that indicate a field test kit? >  >  > K > I would re-install Motif over the DECW base support. And start with 1.2-5    Think I may do that.  F > There is no longer any quality control or support for VAX software. G > 1.2-6 was probably just released to remove display postscript support < > and I doiubt they did much quiality control on it for VAX.   --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 13:06:47 -0400 ' From: Glenn Everhart <Everhart@gce.com> 8 Subject: Re: Finding virtual disks (Was:  SAMBA for VMS), Message-ID: <D56dnSsk_aeHKJXeRVn-vA@rcn.net>   Jeff Cameron wrote:   M > On 8/15/05 8:59 PM, in article 43012C4C.1035.B8D3071@localhost, "Stanley F. ) > Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com> wrote:  >  > 2 >>On 15 Aug 2005 at 21:06, David J Dachtera wrote: >>G >>>>Before it becomes supported, can the device type be changed so that F >>>>the virtual disks come up as "D" something?  To see the disks on aC >>>>system, I do a "SHOW DEVICE D", and this command will miss them 
 >>>>all... >>D >>I have a command procedure to display disk information.  Here's an
 >>excerpt: >> >><loops through all disks>  >>disk = f$device ("*", "DISK") 6 >>If .not. f$getdvi(disk,"mnt")  then Goto GET_NXT_DEV< >>If f$getdvi (disk,"devclass") .ne. 1 then Goto GET_NXT_DEV >>/ >>Turns out that if I change the first line to:  >> >>disk = f$device ("*")  >>G >>It chews through every device on the system, not just "disks".  Since E >>only a disk can be mounted, or have a device class of 1, it doesn't G >>skip the virtual disks.  I know it finds VDAx virtual disks by actual 
 >>testing. >>5 >>So, all is well.  Except F$DEVICE is broken.  Yuck.  >> >>--Stan Quayle  >>Quayle Consulting Inc. >> >>----------/ >>Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 5 >>8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 2 >>stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com+ >>"OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option"  >> >> > L > I think it is important to understand that a Virtual disk (aka a ram disk)M > is a completely different class of device from magnetic disks. Additionally + > their drivers are considerably different.  > J > Just because this type of device supports a file system and has the wordM > "disk" in it's name does not mean it should show up as a device class of 1.  > I > Magnetic tapes can also support a file system, but they are a different ? > class of devices, hence they have a different type of driver.  > J > That is why the virtual disk device mnemonic starts with a V (as in VDA)0 > instead of a D (as in DUA, DIA, DKA, DJA etc.) > J > Remember the TU58 tape cartridge? It had a complete files-11 file systemJ > implemented on tape that even allowed you to delete files and create newN > ones in the space that was released when files were deleted. From the user'sM > standpoint it reacted like a very slow disk, when in fact it was a magnetic 3 > tape, and it did not show up as a class 1 device.  >  > Jeff > $ And note with vddriver at least that   $ asnvd/report vdan:  J will tell you where the container file is. (True in almost all versions of the code out there.)   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Aug 2005 23:00:41 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>) Subject: Re: Highwater marking experience C Message-ID: <1124604041.033839.163230@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>    JF Mezei wrote: 4 > VAX VMS 7.2 on a volume without highwater marking. > + > $COPY SYS$SYSTEM:NETSERVER.EXE []temp.exe " > $set file temp.exe/attr=(lrl=80)$ > $edit temp.exe 		(tpu, decwindows) > L > both files (netserver.exe and temp.exe) have 18 blocks allocated, 11 used. > J > In the edited display, I see 50 bytes at the very end (last record of 80H > bytes) which do not belong to this file, in fact, the reason I noticedF > this is that in the first attempt, the data was text representing anI > email address. In a  second attempt the 50 bytes of padding were binary $ > junk, so it was much less obvious. >  > 3 > The original file at 11 blocks * 512 = 5632 bytes K > The new file has 71 lines of 80 bytes = 5680  , a difference of 50 bytes.    Er, that's 48 bytes.   [...] E > Since I removed highwater marking some time ago to test performance G > difference (and forgot to put it back on), I guess I got what I asked E > for. I just never realised that high-water marking would be such an G > important basic security measure, I had figured it was just some neat 	 > add on.  > C > What is also interesting is that once I have re-enabled highwater C > marking, DUMP/ALLOCATED shows a whole bunch of nulls on the newly B > created file, but for the file created prior to /HIGHWATER beingP > enabled, I can still see the other peoples' data on the last 7 allocated block > J > So it seems that /HIGHWATER_MARKING is truly something which is requiredH > for basic data security. It isn't some neat add-on and is something is; > that done while writing a file, not while reading a file.     ' I have no idea what you're saying here.      > Question:  >  > Between : 1 > SET VOLUME/HIGHWATER_MARKING /NOERASE_ON_DELETE  > and 2 > SET VOLUME /NOHIGHWATER_MARKING /ERASE_ON_DELETE > = > Is there a functional difference in the level of security ?     # Well, try the following experiment:   * 1. Set a volume to have highwater marking.? 2. Allocate all free blocks to a file and populate it with some  recognizable data. 3. Delete the file. / 4. Set the volume to have no highwater marking. & 5. Allocate all free blocks to a file.4 6. Dump the file to see if it contains the old data.  F If you had erase-on-delete for step 1, then step 6 would not yield theF old data. If step 6 yields the old data, then you have the difference.  B JMHO -- Hey, it's late. This may not be the best way to answer the@ question, but it should be *a* way, if my hypothesis is correct.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Aug 2005 05:30:44 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ) Subject: Re: Highwater marking experience 3 Message-ID: <J$$wVqSp7kho@eisner.encompasserve.org>   j In article <1124604041.033839.163230@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes: >  > JF Mezei wrote:   K >> So it seems that /HIGHWATER_MARKING is truly something which is required I >> for basic data security. It isn't some neat add-on and is something is < >> that done while writing a file, not while reading a file. >  > ) > I have no idea what you're saying here.   B I sense an implicit claim that some place in the VMS DocumentationB says it is safe to leave highwater marking disabled.  I have neverB found that place in the documentation and I know of nothing in VMS that would allow such behavior.   D See also NIST Special Publication 800-53, SC-4 Information Remnants.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 13:12:55 -0400 ' From: Glenn Everhart <Everhart@gce.com> Y Subject: Re: How many files can you have in a VMS directory without performance problems? , Message-ID: <t_idnTO0j64IK5XeRVn-hg@rcn.net>   briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:   e > In article <1124275575.684487.287580@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, "RAQ" <_raq_@yahoo.com> writes:  >  >>Hi >> >>Everytime I ask HP aboutE >>"How many files can you have in a VMS directory without performance  >>problems?" >>F >>they send me an article that is about 10-15 years old for VMS 5.2 orC >>even 1.0, that describes that more than 300 files in a catalog is  >>bad... >>H >>I have a feeling that <25.000 files works ok (no major complains), butD >>when we reach 100.000 files it gets bad - and with 500.000 it gets >>really nasty :)  >> >>A >>Does anyone know the real numbers? Or how I can calculate them? = >>Its for VMS 7.x + EVA SAN, and is mainly for file creation.  >  > E > As you know from reading the article about VMS 5.2, the real crunch F > point is when the directory size exceeds 127 blocks and caching gets > thrown out the window. > E > The piece that hurts is when you delete the last directory entry in > > a directory block and you need to slide the remainder of theF > directory down one block to fill in.  Historical implementations didE > this by "bubbling" the remainder of the directory down one block at F > a time in sequence -- block i is copied from i+1, i+1 from i+2, etc. > E > For a 1000 block directory file, that's 2000 disk I/O operations to 4 > delete the last file in the first directory block. > G > The improvements in directory handling since then have (if I remember F > rightly) improved performance by doing multi-block reads and writes.E > So now you bubble the directory contents down 127 blocks at a time.  > J > For a 1000 block directory file, that's 16 disk I/O operations to delete- > the last file in the first directory block.  > ) > NOTE THAT IT'S STILL AN O(n^2) PROBLEM.  > I > All that has changed is the constant of proportionality.  Deletions are G > about 127 times faster than they were at one time.  But if you double H > the directory size, you'll still increase file delete time by a factor
 > of four. > L > If you have 500,000 files in a directory, you need to work out a differentQ > file naming scheme.  By my calculations that's a 50,000 block (or so) directory K > file and will require 800 disk I/O's for every tenth file that you delete O > at the front or 400 disk I/O's for every tenth file that you create or delete  > in the middle. > N > (Assumes ten files per directory block -- your mileage may vary depending on > file name length). > N > One common approach is to put files into a directory tree.  If the names areQ > constructed right, you might be able to harvest the first two characters in the , > file name to be a directory tree position. >  > e.g. > " > TY6WDGT.DAT => [.T.Y]TY6WDGT.DAT" > W9QRXAG.DAT => [.W.9]W9QRXAG.DAT > A > And now you're down to less than 1000 files per directory.  You H > can expand or shrink any given directory in a maximum of 2 disk I/O's.F > And you can figure out which directory to use by a simple inspection > of the file name.  >  > 	John BriggsL Those who remember Spiralog will recall that it kept directories in B trees.O The concept turned out not to be as good as had been thought, but the directory " handling seemed to be pretty good.L    That said, it should be added that handling B trees requires keeping someD indices around, which may not have worked as well in clusters as theG older implementation. Migrating index blocks across machines, where the < intra-cluster link was not too fast, could easily be a bear.   Glenn Everhart   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 13:22:43 -0400 ' From: Glenn Everhart <Everhart@gce.com> Y Subject: Re: How many files can you have in a VMS directory without performance problems? , Message-ID: <LrWdnbWsOJRKJZXeRVn-1w@rcn.net>   Dave Froble wrote:   > Bob Koehler wrote: > ; >> In article <ddv7ge$n24$1@rdel.co.uk>, "Chris Blackburn"  / >> <chris.blackburn@uk.thalesgroup.com> writes:  >>F >>> I have noticed on our VMS boxes that perfomance begins to degrade  >>> when the
 >>> number, >>> of files in a directory exceeds 10,000.  >> >> >>K >>    Probably depends on ACP_DINDXCACHE and ACP_DIRCACHE.  From experience 3 >>    I don't trust AUTOGEN to manage these values.  >> > K > Actually, the practical answer is 20-22 files.  Any more and they scrool  J > off the screen when issuing the DIR command with one file per line.  :-) > F How many files do you need before what you have is a digital landfill?G This answer is at least in the ballpark for what is likely to be really  useful, regardless of OS.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 13:04:58 -0400 ' From: Glenn Everhart <Everhart@gce.com> @ Subject: Re: LDDRIVER original developer (was Re: SAMBA for VMS), Message-ID: <D56dnSgk_aczKZXeRVn-vA@rcn.net>   Dan Foster wrote: = > In article <1ZednZqwgfTbNp3eRVn-rA@rcn.net>, Glenn Everhart  > <Everhart@gce.com> wrote:  > A >>Thanks for the comment, but LDdriver was not one of mine. I did F >>VDdriver and some others, but LDdriver was done internally at DEC byA >>Ton D. (sorry, I forget the spelling of his last name). The old F >>RSX11M/M+ VDdriver was Ralph Stamerjohn's thing, though I and others >>did various tweaks.  >  > I > My sincerest apologies to the original developer -- intent was *NOT* to  > mis-credit the developer.  > M > And a thank-you to Mr. Everhart for setting the record straight. Mea culpa.  > J > I should note that from a previous HP OpenVMS Technical Journal article,H > it states the original developer was reported to have been Adrie SweepC > from the Netherlands, and originally written for VAX/VMS in 1985.  > R > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/journal/v6/disk_partitioning_with_lddriver.pdf > I > I am not sure how to reconcile this with Mr. Everhart's recollection of : > Ton D. having done this version internally at DEC.. hmm. >  > -DanI Simple...I remembered the author wrongly. Used to get DFU and LD from the D same site inside DEC if I remember right (and I may be wrong again). Glenn    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 10:39:21 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>1 Subject: Re: Next project, C programming problem. * Message-ID: <4308A029.CEB10E5@comcast.net>   Bill Gunshannon wrote: > D > OK, now that I am ready to turn the students  loose on the VAX forD > programming projects I have another problem to solve.  While SAMBAG > now makes it trivial to move files between the VAX and out fileserver D > the files will not be in a proper VMS text format and the compilerC > won't deal with them.  No big thing.  I merely wrote 2 utilities, F > "unix2vms" and "vms2unix".  Simple on the unix side, but the idea isH > to have the students work on the VMS side.  If they  have to be loggedF > into the Unix server to convert every file before moving it, nothingE > is gained in trying to get them to work in the VMS environment. So, 9 > I need these utilities to work on the VMS side as well.  > C > Now the problem.  I convert the file by writing it to a temp file F > while playing with the "lf"/"lf cr" combinations and then rename theJ > tempfile to the original files name.  This (according to the descriptionI > of "rename") guarantees that the file can not be lost even in the event G > of a system crash.  But the problem is the tempfile is not created as G > StreamLF.  According to the CC docs I have found on the web it should F > have been as that is the default for "fopen(filename, "w")".  AnyoneF > here tell me what I need to do to make sure the new file I create isF > StreamLF so it doesn't end out with garbage padding at the end which7 > upsets the compiler even more  thanthe lack of "cr"s.   G Dunno if this helps, but at one time I found it useful to pass a STREAM @ text file through this sequence when converting from M$ to UN*X:   1. Copy it to a temp location. 2. Set the copy /ATTR=RFM=STMCR H 3. CONVERT the copy to a new file using a .FDL that specified the record format as STREAM_LF. 4. DELETE the copy from step 1.   ? Step 3 would filter out the <CR>'s but leave the <LF>'s intact.   3 An alternative method (if you want to avoid .FDLs):    1. Copy it to a temp location. 2. Set the copy /ATTR=RFM=STMCR  3. COPY NLA0: to a new file & 4. SET the new (empty) FILE/ATTR=STMLF! 5. APPEND the copy to a new file.  6. DELETE the copy from step 1.   H This produces a message about the source and target files not having theD same attributes, but it's only a -W- (warning) severity, and the endD result is the same. Step 5 would filter out the <CR>'s but leave the <LF>'s intact.  E I've never tried using PIPEs to eliminate the intermediate file - the - original technique was developed on V6.2-1H3.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 13:21:36 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 1 Subject: Re: Next project, C programming problem. , Message-ID: <4308B81E.1D6B8158@teksavvy.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:E >> programming projects I have another problem to solve.  While SAMBA G > now makes it trivial to move files between the VAX and out fileserver D > the files will not be in a proper VMS text format and the compiler > won't deal with them.   C When you move a file from unix to VMS with SAMBA, how are the files + created on VMS ? what does a DIR/FULL say ?   E If you edit the file with TPU, do you see CRs at the end ? LFs at the  end ? both ?  E Do you have documentation for SAMBA ?  Wouldn't there be some sort of G config file that would tell it how to create files on VMS based on file  extension ?   I Also, if you are doing this with UNIX boxes, did you consider using NFS ?    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.466 ************************                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    B.ORG::"0=JUENGST" and
  with FAL$LOG = 1/DISABLE=8
f Requested file access operation: Directory List 
Specified file: DISK$MISC:[DECUS.VMSLT03B.NOT]*.*;4 Resultant file: DISK$MISC:[DECUS.VMSLT03B.NOT]*.*;# DAP status code of 4032 generatedOx 
FAL terminated execution on      19-JUN-2004 16:46:25.27
========================================================
:   $NETNONPRIV$ job terminated at 19-JUN-2004 16:51:25.31 
  Accounting information:-Q   Buffered I/O count:                393      Peak working set size:       2976LQ   Direct I/O count:                  164      Peak virtual size:         173888iQ   Page faults:                       979      Mounted volumes:                0.Q   Charged CPU time:        0 00:00:00.18      Elapsed time:       0 00:19:04.72 9-JUN-2004 16:46:25.27
========================================================
:   $NETNONPRIV$ job terminated at 19-JUN-2004 16:51:25.31 
  Accounting information:-Q   Buffered I/O count:                393           "generic" match length code, capable of coding any length from
         3 (min match length + 0) to 65538 (min match length + 65535).
         This means that the length code #285 takes 16 bits (!) of uncoded
         extra data, added to a fixed min length of 3.
      Changes a) and b) would have been transparent for valid deflated
      data, but change c) requires to switch decoder configurations between
      Deflate and Deflate64 modes.
 */


#define PKZIP_BUG_WORKAROUND    /* PKZIP 1.93a problem--live with it */

/*
    inflate.h must supply the uch slide[WSIZE] array, the zvoid typedef
    (void if (void *) is accepted, else char) and the NEXTBYTE,
    FLUSH() and memzero macros.  If the window size is not 32K, it
    should also define WSIZE.  If INFMOD is defined, it can include
    compiled functions to support the NEXTBYTE and/or FLUSH() macros.
    There are defaults for NEXTBYTE and FLUSH() below for use as
    examples of what those functions need to do.  Normally, you would
    also want FLUSH() to compute a crc on the data.  inflate.h also
    needs to provide these typedefs:

        typedef unsigned char uch;
        typedef unsigned short ush;
        typedef unsigned long ulg;

    This module uses the external functions malloc() and free() (and
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  