1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 01 Sep 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 488       Contents: Re: Adding users Re: Adding users) Re: Assigning value of a logical variable ) Re: Assigning value of a logical variable  Re: crmpsc INVALIDARG  Re: crmpsc INVALIDARG  Re: crmpsc INVALIDARG  Re: crmpsc INVALIDARG  Re: crmpsc INVALIDARG  Re: crmpsc INVALIDARG  Re: crmpsc INVALIDARG  Re: crmpsc INVALIDARG  Re: crmpsc INVALIDARG # Re: DCPS generic queue form problem # Re: DCPS generic queue form problem # Re: DCPS generic queue form problem 0 Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15)0 Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15)0 Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15)0 Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15) Re: Itanium Solutions Alliance Re: Itanium Solutions Alliance Re: Itanium Solutions Alliance Re: Itanium Solutions Alliance Re: Itanium Solutions Alliance Re: Itanium Solutions Alliance Re: Itanium Solutions Alliance
 Macro code Re: Macro code RE: Macro code Re: Macro code Re: Macro code Re: Macro code Re: Macro code Re: Macro code Re: Macro code2 Re: MMS V3.5 v. ODS5: Unexpected case-sensitivity?% OpenVMS Special an Autumn Alpha DS10L " Re: Pass arguments to a .com file." Re: Pass arguments to a .com file. Re: problem with SLSC Re: Setting 'default' DECWindows display with multi-heads on rx26xx  Re: SFTP in batch- password? Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:46:23 -04004 From: "Peter Weaver" <newsgroup@weaverconsulting.ca> Subject: Re: Adding users + Message-ID: <3nopj2F2j0m8U1@individual.net>    Dave Froble wrote: >...G >  From what you're saying it sounds like AUTHORIZE doesn't display the C > rights correctly.  Support or not, I'd think that VMS engineering 2 > would like to know the specifics of the problem.  H Not only does AUTHORIZE not show it, new processes did not get the rightG granted to them. The problem appeared when the main programmer asked me H to grant an identifier to 3 or 4 users, I did it and a week or two laterD he called to tell me that I missed one user but the other users were fine.   G When I grant the id I get the GRANTMSG returned, but SHOW USERNAME does B not show the ID I just granted. A second grant gives me a GRANTERRB message, so AUTHORIZE thinks it is there, but will not display it.   UAF> grant/id id_name1 username 8 %UAF-I-GRANTMSG, identifier ID_NAME1 granted to USERNAME UAF> show username ... = Identifier                         Value           Attributes ,   id_name2                        %X80010002 UAF> grant/id id_name1 username @ %UAF-E-GRANTERR, unable to grant identifier ID_NAME1 to USERNAME( -SYSTEM-F-DUPIDENT, duplicate identifier  A I granted the same right to other users (including a copy of this C username) with no problems. I tried to grant 2 other rights to this E particular username but they caused the same problem. TNT was able to < grant the ID and this user was then able to run the program.  C When I have a chance I will try to rebuild the SYSAUF and RIGHTLIST A files to see if this is just a problem that has built up over the * decades that this system has been running.   --     Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.  Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAX  www.weaverconsulting.ca    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:47:06 -04004 From: "Peter Weaver" <newsgroup@weaverconsulting.ca> Subject: Re: Adding users + Message-ID: <3nopkdF2jubaU1@individual.net>    Alan Greig wrote: B > Doesn't this happen if you have a logical for sysuaf but not for3 > rightslist and haven't done a SET DEF SYS$SYSTEM?   F Could be, but that is not the case here. See my reply to Dave for more details.   --   Peter Weaver Weaver Consulting Services Inc.  Canadian VAR for CHARON-VAX  www.weaverconsulting.ca    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 02:07:06 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 2 Subject: Re: Assigning value of a logical variable, Message-ID: <43169A7F.1C45125E@teksavvy.com>   MUSTAFA ATAKAN wrote: D >    Is there any way to assign the value of a logical variable to a > symbol variable?      ! $mysymbol = f$trnlnm("mylogical")    HELP LEXICAL F$TRNLNM     6 Or, can we print the value of a logical variable (I do  ' $write sys$output f$trnlnm("mylogical")    or  ? $write sys$output "The value is ==>''f$trnlnm("mylogical")'<=="    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2005 07:50:30 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 2 Subject: Re: Assigning value of a logical variable3 Message-ID: <21mZqYhlM6mJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <F014DACB8BE63442993543B780A2F0180163BEF7@asteriks.inteltek.ist>, "MUSTAFA ATAKAN" <matakan@inteltek.com.tr> writes:  >  Hi, > D >    Is there any way to assign the value of a logical variable to aI > symbol variable? Or, can we print the value of a logical variable (I do G > not mean "show log xxx", I want to print just the value it contains)?  >  > Best Regards...   	    As in:       $define a b    $c = f$trnlnm("a")     $write sys$output c      ?   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2005 09:32:18 +0200 . From: huber@NOBODY-mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber) Subject: Re: crmpsc INVALIDARG+ Message-ID: <ytgwV5XgDbFN@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>   l In article <1125553469.520804.41620@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "saee" <aditi.hatwalne@gmail.com> writes:F > I am using crmpsc to create section for existing data file.The flags@ > used are  SEC$M_GBL | SEC$M_EXPREG .It successfully does this.H > Then I do delete global section and deltva call. I again do crmpsc forH > other file. Return address for this second crmpsc are same as previous > one. This is okay.! > Now consider second situation.. G > I do crmpsc first time with same flags. Now I do not do delete global G > section and deltva for this memory. I call crmpsc for second time for F > different file.For both crmpsc return addresses are different.that'sE > fine. Now I call delete global section and deltva for first memory. @ > Then I call crmpsc for third file...return address for this is: > different.Why it doesn't use address that it just freed?H > Now If try to use  return addresses of first crmpsc's for third crmpscG > wihout SEC$EXPREG flag..it gives INVALID ARGUMENTS. I don't why it is D > giving this error when other parameters are same as previous ones.  > Whether I am missing anything?  B Without SEC$EXPREG, the inadr must be an existing virtual address.5 (After $DELTVA the virtual address range is removed). < You must map to an existing virtual address range, usually aF .PSECT with the GBL,OVR,SHARE attribute like Fortran COMMON, C global 4 structures (compiled with /EXTERN_MODEL=COMMON) etc.E You can explicitly create a virtual address range using $CRETVA, and  C then map it using $CRMPSC, but that's what the SEC$EXPREG is doing  
 in one go.   --  @    Joseph Huber , Muenchen,Germany:  http://www.huber-joseph.de/   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2005 09:58:07 +0200 . From: huber@NOBODY-mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber) Subject: Re: crmpsc INVALIDARG+ Message-ID: <MP3FpRgV4HOa@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>   m In article <1125560872.965396.202140@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "saee" <aditi.hatwalne@gmail.com> writes: I > okay ,I don't do deltva call, just deallocate global section...still it  > gives INVALID ARGS error.   A I'm not going now to read the system services manual, but I think C since CRMPSC is implicitly calling CRETVA when EXPREG flag is set,  8 deleting the global section internally also call DELTVA.  A Why do You insist "reusing" the address range ? To what purpose ?     --  @    Joseph Huber , Muenchen,Germany:  http://www.huber-joseph.de/   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2005 00:47:52 -0700 ' From: "saee" <aditi.hatwalne@gmail.com>  Subject: Re: crmpsc INVALIDARGC Message-ID: <1125560872.965396.202140@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   G okay ,I don't do deltva call, just deallocate global section...still it  gives INVALID ARGS error.    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2005 01:17:51 -0700 ' From: "saee" <aditi.hatwalne@gmail.com>  Subject: Re: crmpsc INVALIDARGC Message-ID: <1125562671.550251.301970@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   F My application needs huge amount of memory..Number of files are loadedC with crmpsc. At some point of time I got Virtual memory full error. E I wanted to assure that when any memory is deallocated..same could be # used for others.so I try to 'reuse'    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2005 10:37:01 +0200 . From: huber@NOBODY-mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber) Subject: Re: crmpsc INVALIDARG+ Message-ID: <hCjjHewFO9WK@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>   m In article <1125562671.550251.301970@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "saee" <aditi.hatwalne@gmail.com> writes: H > My application needs huge amount of memory..Number of files are loadedE > with crmpsc. At some point of time I got Virtual memory full error. G > I wanted to assure that when any memory is deallocated..same could be % > used for others.so I try to 'reuse'   D Yeah, but this case is only cured by increasing the PGFLQUO for the % account used to run this application.     --  @    Joseph Huber , Muenchen,Germany:  http://www.huber-joseph.de/   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2005 04:49:08 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: crmpsc INVALIDARG3 Message-ID: <kt2$g9TfRgGF@eisner.encompasserve.org>   l In article <1125553469.520804.41620@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "saee" <aditi.hatwalne@gmail.com> writes:  F > I am using crmpsc to create section for existing data file.The flags@ > used are  SEC$M_GBL | SEC$M_EXPREG .It successfully does this.H > Then I do delete global section and deltva call. I again do crmpsc forH > other file. Return address for this second crmpsc are same as previous > one. This is okay.! > Now consider second situation.. G > I do crmpsc first time with same flags. Now I do not do delete global G > section and deltva for this memory. I call crmpsc for second time for F > different file.For both crmpsc return addresses are different.that'sE > fine. Now I call delete global section and deltva for first memory. @ > Then I call crmpsc for third file...return address for this is: > different.Why it doesn't use address that it just freed?H > Now If try to use  return addresses of first crmpsc's for third crmpscG > wihout SEC$EXPREG flag..it gives INVALID ARGUMENTS. I don't why it is D > giving this error when other parameters are same as previous ones.  > Whether I am missing anything?  C You should carefully read the description of the inadr parameter in E the documentation.  That documentation emphasizes differences between F VAX and non-VAX architectures.  But we cannot say anything about those: since you did not specify what architecture you are using.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 09:57:58 -0400$ From: "Hein" <hein.nomail@hp.nomail> Subject: Re: crmpsc INVALIDARG, Message-ID: <431708eb$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  3 "saee" <aditi.hatwalne@gmail.com> wrote in message  < news:1125553469.520804.41620@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > Hi,  > F > I am using crmpsc to create section for existing data file.The flags& > used are  SEC$M_GBL | SEC$M_EXPREG . : @ > Then I call crmpsc for third file...return address for this is: > different.Why it doesn't use address that it just freed?  L Because OpenVMS decided NOT to manage virtual address space, assuming there  would always be enough.   8 The only exception is the very end of the address space.K This end is grown through EXPREG, and shrunk IFF (if and only if) a DELTVA  $ for the very last addresses is done.K So if you deltva in reverse order (lifo) from the crmpsc, then you will be   able to re-use transparently. K If not, then you will need you own 'hole' administration to remember which   VA range is availble. D Yes that mean you may have to worry about fragmentation, laddering, ) binary-buddies and happy stuff like that.   G This is (was!) a significant problem for RMS files with global buffers. B Frequent wrong-order open and closes could make you run out of VA.$ RMS has decided to fix this for 8.2.  F This problem can be exacerbated by 'mixed' VA usage. For example, the M private sections mentioned above combined with opening and closing RMS files  / will global buffers, intersperced with MALLOCs.   L The problem can be reduced by doing stuff like using an initial huge malloc L followed bu a free, using little known link options like IOSEGMENT, using a K 'cache' of mapped files / opened files. rmembering where you last mapped a  K file and re-specify that space, using strict LIFO allocation/de-allocation  > even if that means temporary unmapping and re-mapping an item.   Hope this helps,   Hein.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 11:14:15 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  Subject: Re: crmpsc INVALIDARG0 Message-ID: <11he6d1falp3o6a@corp.supernews.com>   saee wrote: H > My application needs huge amount of memory..Number of files are loadedE > with crmpsc. At some point of time I got Virtual memory full error. G > I wanted to assure that when any memory is deallocated..same could be % > used for others.so I try to 'reuse'  >   H No!  Don't try to manage memory.  VMS does that.  You can never be sure I what sections of physical, or virtual, memory is available.  You ask VMS  E for memory, and it will give you what you ask for, if it's available.   E The things you should be looking at, as another posted specified, is  I pfquota and the size of your pagefile(s), if physical memory is an issue.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2005 10:41:02 -0500  From: briggs@encompasserve.org Subject: Re: crmpsc INVALIDARG3 Message-ID: <Fg8gg8HEd$5X@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Z In article <11he6d1falp3o6a@corp.supernews.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:
 > saee wrote: I >> My application needs huge amount of memory..Number of files are loaded F >> with crmpsc. At some point of time I got Virtual memory full error.H >> I wanted to assure that when any memory is deallocated..same could be& >> used for others.so I try to 'reuse' >>   > J > No!  Don't try to manage memory.  VMS does that.  You can never be sure K > what sections of physical, or virtual, memory is available.  You ask VMS  G > for memory, and it will give you what you ask for, if it's available.   5 As Hein has already posted, this is completely false.   G > The things you should be looking at, as another posted specified, is  K > pfquota and the size of your pagefile(s), if physical memory is an issue.   B If your application is leaking VM the proper approach is to REDUCED its PGFLQUOTA.  Rather than throwing memory at the problem, you needC to take it away until somebody fixes the damned thing.  (Of course, = in the real world, this approach is not uniformly effective).    	John Briggs   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 14:16:33 GMT * From: Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com>, Subject: Re: DCPS generic queue form problem5 Message-ID: <010920050951367160%paul.anderson@hp.com>   2 In article <1125536816.334119@smirk>, Alan Frisbie( <Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> wrote:  C > The problem is that (as far as I can tell), generic queues cannot G > have forms associated with them.  I can manually enter a PRINT /FORM= B > command and it works just fine.  However, when printing from the8 > user's application, there is no way to specify a form. > : > Can someone give me a hint of how to solve this problem?  F Besides using Layup, as previously suggested, you could create anotherG execution queue, with the desired form as default, pointing to the same  printer.   Paul   --    Paul Anderson   OpenVMS Engineering    Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:50:15 -0400- From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> , Subject: Re: DCPS generic queue form problem7 Message-ID: <8660a3a1050901085062adf53a@mail.gmail.com>   ( ------=_Part_9445_16916836.1125589815235, Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  Content-Disposition: inline   6 On 9/1/05, Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@hp.com> wrote: >=204 > In article <1125536816.334119@smirk>, Alan Frisbie* > <Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> wrote: >=20E > > The problem is that (as far as I can tell), generic queues cannot J > > have forms associated with them. I can manually enter a PRINT /FORM=3DC > > command and it works just fine. However, when printing from the : > > user's application, there is no way to specify a form. > > < > > Can someone give me a hint of how to solve this problem? >=20H > Besides using Layup, as previously suggested, you could create anotherI > execution queue, with the desired form as default, pointing to the same 
 > printer. >=20 > Paul >=20 > -- > Paul Anderson  > OpenVMS Engineering  > Hewlett-Packard Company  >=20  L I used to have departments using LNO8As with the large capacity input trays= =20 ! as well as the two regular trays.   J I had *three* execution queues feeding into each printer, and different=20J forms in each of the three trays- plain paper, letterhead and statement=20 paper.  H Worked like a dream. However, this was before 1996 so don't ask me to=208 remember exactly what I did with DCPS to make it happen.  	 WWWebb=20    --=20 F NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related=20 correspondence. L All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for service= s=202 pursuant to the terms and conditions located at=20# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/   ( ------=_Part_9445_16916836.1125589815235+ Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  Content-Disposition: inline   L <br><br><div><span class=3D"gmail_quote">On 9/1/05, <b class=3D"gmail_sende=L rname">Paul Anderson</b> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:paul.anderson@hp.com">paul.a=L nderson@hp.com</a>&gt; wrote:</span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=L =3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; p= adding-left: 1ex;"> L In article &lt;1125536816.334119@smirk&gt;, Alan Frisbie<br>&lt;<a href=3D"=L mailto:Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com">Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com</a>=L &gt; wrote:<br><br>&gt; The problem is that (as far as I can tell), generic=  queues cannotL <br>&gt; have forms associated with them.&nbsp;&nbsp;I can manually enter a=L  PRINT /FORM=3D<br>&gt; command and it works just fine.&nbsp;&nbsp;However,=L  when printing from the<br>&gt; user's application, there is no way to spec= ify a form.<br>&gt; L <br>&gt; Can someone give me a hint of how to solve this problem?<br><br>Be=L sides using Layup, as previously suggested, you could create another<br>exe=H cution queue, with the desired form as default, pointing to the same<br>L printer.<br><br>Paul<br><br>--<br> Paul Anderson<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;OpenVMS Eng=L ineering<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;Hewlett-Packard Company<br></blockquote></div><br>I=L  used to have departments using LNO8As with the large capacity input trays =! as well as the two regular trays.  <br> <br>G I had *three* execution queues feeding into each printer, and different G forms in each of the three trays- plain paper, letterhead and statement 
 paper.<br> <br>E Worked like a dream.&nbsp; However, this was before 1996 so don't ask H me to remember exactly what I did&nbsp; with DCPS to make it happen.<br> <br>L WWWebb <br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>NOTE: This email address is only used f=3 or noncommerical VMS-related correspondence.<br>All ? unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located atL <a href=3D"http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/">http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e= /webbww/</a>  * ------=_Part_9445_16916836.1125589815235--   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 08:58:33 -0700 4 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com>, Subject: Re: DCPS generic queue form problem% Message-ID: <1125590194.521352@smirk>    Paul Anderson wrote:  C >>The problem is that (as far as I can tell), generic queues cannot G >>have forms associated with them.  I can manually enter a PRINT /FORM= B >>command and it works just fine.  However, when printing from the8 >>user's application, there is no way to specify a form.  H > Besides using Layup, as previously suggested, you could create anotherI > execution queue, with the desired form as default, pointing to the same 
 > printer.  * Aha!   I didn't know that I could do that.> Is there an example anywhere (I didn't see one in the manual)?   Thanks,  Alan   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2005 13:13:33 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)9 Subject: Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15) + Message-ID: <3nod3sF2hhsoU1@individual.net>   3 In article <1lYAAhIpgVh0@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:^ > In article <4315D67C.DAAB8968@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: >>  J >> As an indication of how long this will take: Houston has just cancelledI >> its Astrodome's schedule because they will bus people from New Orleans J >> to Houston, and they've zapped all events there until December already.< >> (shouldn't they use military airlifts instead of buses ?) > H >    I think the problems at hand would be better solved if the airliftsF >    were used to bring in supplies, so let the busses take folks out. > G >    Meanwhile, I don't think there are any large airfields above water  >    in New Orleans. >     ) Chinooks don't need large airfields.  :-)   H I can't, for the life of me, figure out why my Unit (and me with them!) C isn't down there fishing surviviors from the roofs of buildings and B moving emergency supplies into the areas where survivors are still
 stranded!!   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2005 07:46:21 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 9 Subject: Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15) 3 Message-ID: <1lYAAhIpgVh0@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <4315D67C.DAAB8968@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > I > As an indication of how long this will take: Houston has just cancelled H > its Astrodome's schedule because they will bus people from New OrleansI > to Houston, and they've zapped all events there until December already. ; > (shouldn't they use military airlifts instead of buses ?)   F    I think the problems at hand would be better solved if the airliftsD    were used to bring in supplies, so let the busses take folks out.  E    Meanwhile, I don't think there are any large airfields above water     in New Orleans.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 11:19:23 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 9 Subject: Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15) 0 Message-ID: <11he6mja1c5l51d@corp.supernews.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:^ > In article <4315D67C.DAAB8968@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > I >>As an indication of how long this will take: Houston has just cancelled H >>its Astrodome's schedule because they will bus people from New OrleansI >>to Houston, and they've zapped all events there until December already. ; >>(shouldn't they use military airlifts instead of buses ?)  >  > H >    I think the problems at hand would be better solved if the airliftsF >    were used to bring in supplies, so let the busses take folks out. > G >    Meanwhile, I don't think there are any large airfields above water  >    in New Orleans. >   B You'd still have to get people to and from airfields.  That means E busses.  Since the distance isn't very far, involving aircraft might   actually slow things down.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2005 12:20:58 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 9 Subject: Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15) 3 Message-ID: <tolLzK4M8bsc@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <3nod3sF2hhsoU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > J > I can't, for the life of me, figure out why my Unit (and me with them!) E > isn't down there fishing surviviors from the roofs of buildings and D > moving emergency supplies into the areas where survivors are still > stranded!!  F    Politics.  I was happy to hear that our governor deployed our (MD)     guard to Mississippi.  E    But the management of emergency response takes manpower and money. D    Some politicians are willing to short them in hopes they won't be(    needed during that politician's term.  H    The Bush administration has been critized before for poor performance8    by FEMA.  I suspect in this case they will be, again.  A    IMHO the current speed and size of the response by the federal B    government is tragic.  I can only hope the many state and local?    governments who are responding can in part make up for this.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 02:26:43 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> ' Subject: Re: Itanium Solutions Alliance 0 Message-ID: <11hd7ft72n90c7e@corp.supernews.com>   Rob Young wrote:j > In article <JUjRe.39331$5m3.29935@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>, Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net> writes: >  >> >>JF Mezei wrote:  >> >>h >>>http://news.com.com/Itanium+allies+to+pool+development+efforts/2100-1006_3-5844877.html?tag=nefd.lede >>> C >>>Intel is getting its IA64 customers to fund an Itanium Solutions 5 >>>Alliance to help promopte the struggling alliance.  >>> K >>>The article then moves on to more familiar territory, outlining why IA64 G >>>just hasn't caught on. (It isn't just the inquirer that has negative  >>>spin on IA64).  >>I >>The entire IT news industry knows that Itanium is critically ill. They  D >>only differ on whether it's terminal or not. Most have just about G >>forgotten about it. It was extremely telling that Intel's CEO didn't  G >>mention the Itanic at all during his 1 hour long keynote at IDF last  I >>week - "In terms of Itanium it was time budget. I was given 59 minutes  ; >>and I hit 59 minutes." I read that as "That's all folks."  >>F >>The presentations are all available for replay on Intel's web site. F >>Worth checking out. Itanic did get a brief 10 minute mention on day K >>three. Very, very tellingly nothing was even hinted at beyond Montecito.   >  > - > 	Yawn...  stretch, harrumphh, harrumphh....  > 8 > 	Yes... very very telling nothing was hinted at beyond0 > 	Montecito.  Very telling indeed.  Pleeeze.... > @ > 	If you're going to FUD something up in the Internet/Blog era,7 > 	you are going to have to do a lot better than that.   > 4 > http://news.zdnet.co.uk/0,39020330,39215762,00.htm >  > Stephen Shankland  > CNET News.com  > August 31, 2005, 13:30 BST > L > "The industry has lined up . all but one . with Itanium as the platform ofJ > choice for RISC replacement and mainframe platforms for the future," PatP > Gelsinger, general manager of Intel's digital enterprise group, said last week0 > at the Intel Developer Forum in San Francisco. > M > The lone holdout Gelsinger referred to is IBM, whose Power processor is the M > second horse in what Intel likes to call a two-horse race, but it should be N > noted that Sun also shuns Itanium in favour of high-end systems built aroundH > Sparc processors.    [But UltraSparc isn't even worth mentioning, note > Sun's continued slide] >  > [snip] > M > Intel's Itanium plans still extend years into the future. Next up will be a L > model code-named Montecito, due to be released by the end of this year. ItQ > employs dual cores, an approach already used by high-end server chips from Sun, 
 > HP and IBM.  > O > "Montecito will deliver a huge step up in performance, more than doubling the Q > performance capabilities of today's Madison family of products," Gelsinger said  > last week. > P > After Montecito comes a close relative called Montvale, in 2006. Then in 2007,Q > Intel plans to introduce a four-core Itanium called Tukwila, a design that will = > be succeeded by another four-core chip, code-named Poulson.  >  >  > J >>>The big question now is whether this effort to keep IA64 alive is IntelK >>>driven, or driven by HP and possibly SGI to help justify their continued  >>>reliance on that chip.  >>6 >>SGI seem to be implementing plan "B" move to X86-64. >> >  >  > 	Sure. > 	 > 				Rob  >   E Don't forget, Rob assured us that Hammer would never 'make it', even  @ hinting that AMD would go under before the product was released.  F Well, I guess he was partly right, there is no product called HAMMER. 6 But we do have Athlon64, Athlon-FX, Opteron, and such.   Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2005 03:31:25 -0700  From: icerq4a@spray.se' Subject: Re: Itanium Solutions Alliance B Message-ID: <1125570685.896267.73540@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   JF Mezei wrote: g > http://news.com.com/Itanium+allies+to+pool+development+efforts/2100-1006_3-5844877.html?tag=nefd.lede  > D > Itanium hasn't yet reached heir-apparent status by most estimates.G > HP--the server maker that has pushed the chip most aggressively--sold E > $108 million in Itanium-based Unix servers in the second quarter of D > 2005, compared with $1.1 billion in the PA-RISC-based Unix servers< > they're intended to replace, according to Gartner figures.   It has been updated now:C "Itanium hasn't yet reached heir-apparent status by most estimates. E HP--the server maker that has pushed the chip most aggressively--sold C $287 million in Itanium-based Unix servers in the second quarter of B 2005, compared with $913 billion in the PA-RISC-based Unix servers@ they're intended to replace, according to Gartner figures. TotalD Itanium server revenue for HP, which also includes Linux and Windows5 operating systems, was $411 million in the quarter. "    and   6 "Correction: This story included incorrect figures forG Hewlett-Packard's Itanium server revenue in the second quarter of 2005. E The company sold $287 million in Itanium-based Unix servers, compared 1 with $913 billion in PA-RISC-based Unix servers."   E HP-UX users have had no reason to switch yet. PA-RISC is still a very  good chip and is in dual-core.C Montecito/Tukwila will change this, and ofcourse things will change 2 rapidly when HP stops selling PA-RISC machines. ;)   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2005 05:02:08 -0700  From: icerq4a@spray.se' Subject: Re: Itanium Solutions Alliance C Message-ID: <1125575996.980076.169680@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Alan Greig wrote:  > icerq4a@spray.se wrote:  >  > >  > >  > > It has been updated now: > F > But by someone hunior dork who clearly can't proof-read and probably> > just listened to HP marketing dictating copy down the phone.   Yes. :)   G > > "Itanium hasn't yet reached heir-apparent status by most estimates. I > > HP--the server maker that has pushed the chip most aggressively--sold G > > $287 million in Itanium-based Unix servers in the second quarter of F > > 2005, compared with $913 billion in the PA-RISC-based Unix servers > D > $913 Billion? Hell, that's a long way to catch up. And this is the > corrected version? >  > > : > > "Correction: This story included incorrect figures forK > > Hewlett-Packard's Itanium server revenue in the second quarter of 2005. I > > The company sold $287 million in Itanium-based Unix servers, compared 5 > > with $913 billion in PA-RISC-based Unix servers."  > G > And lets screw-up again. Yes they really do repeat the mistake in the  > "correction".  > I > > HP-UX users have had no reason to switch yet. PA-RISC is still a very " > > good chip and is in dual-core.G > > Montecito/Tukwila will change this, and ofcourse things will change 6 > > rapidly when HP stops selling PA-RISC machines. ;) > E > How much businesss did HP do in AMD64 last year? More than Itanium.   / Lots more, if you by AMD64 mean the x86 market. D What did you expect? ;), the x86 market volume is in another league.   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2005 07:33:03 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ' Subject: Re: Itanium Solutions Alliance 3 Message-ID: <mB17PDmXHdmi@eisner.encompasserve.org>   N In article <opswdmv306zgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: > F > Not necessarily.  A verically microcoded engine might have been veryD > workable.  VAX images are about  1/3 the size of Alpha so not sureA > it would slow down the memory system, it might have sped it up!   B   The VAX architecture requires access to memory in ways (such as E   non-aligned access) that were left out of the memory subsystem for  ?   speed.  Early Alphas didn't even have word and byte access to ?   memory, which was corrected in later Alphas because the extra E   instructions to get to bytes and words were at least as slow as the (   complications to the memory subsystem.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 11:27:01 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> ' Subject: Re: Itanium Solutions Alliance 0 Message-ID: <11he74vde15jr51@corp.supernews.com>   icerq4a@spray.se wrote:   G > HP-UX users have had no reason to switch yet. PA-RISC is still a very   > good chip and is in dual-core.  " And that's good for the customers.  E > Montecito/Tukwila will change this, and ofcourse things will change 4 > rapidly when HP stops selling PA-RISC machines. ;)  F Well duh!  I suppose this will be called the customer's choice?  What @ else can the customers do if they cannot buy their first choice?   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 17:07:20 GMT 1 From: Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> ' Subject: Re: Itanium Solutions Alliance 2 Message-ID: <czGRe.11578$29.8257@news.cpqcorp.net>   Paul A. Jacobi wrote:  > I hope we I > can somehow get him to do a demo of OpenVMS on Itanium at IDF sometime.   : OpenVMS has already been demonstrated at IDF -- last year:H "In the HP booth during IDF, HP is demonstrating an HP Superdome server E running Linux, HP-UX, Windows, and OpenVMS concurrently in four hard   partitions."C http://www.hp-interex.org/site/cms/newsarticleview.asp?article=2166    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 17:14:54 GMT 1 From: Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> ' Subject: Re: Itanium Solutions Alliance 2 Message-ID: <iGGRe.11581$lc.4913@news.cpqcorp.net>   Bob Koehler wrote:9 >   Early Alphas didn't even have word and byte access to A >   memory, which was corrected in later Alphas because the extra G >   instructions to get to bytes and words were at least as slow as the * >   complications to the memory subsystem.  G Early Alphas avoided word and byte access on purpose to achieve higher   overall performance.  G Late in Alpha's life, byte instructions were added to the architecture  H and subsequent implementations under pressure because Windows NT device D drivers used a lot of byte accesses and it was hard to port them to K Alpha. Ironically, Windows support for Alpha was dropped shortly afterward.   B I'll agree that certain specific byte-oriented operations are now G faster, but I believe the compromise likely resulted in a reduction in  8 overall chip performance due to the trade-offs required.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 09:43:57 +0200  From: S <soterroatyahoodotcom> Subject: Macro code & Message-ID: <4316b13a$1@news1.ethz.ch>   Hi all,   I Could someone please drop me a link to read about that Macro language(?)   thing?H I'm quite curious because I see it always mentioned as a roadblock when G porting an OS to another platform. VMS has issues with it, Windows has  E issues with it, so why did people use it, why do they keep using it,  C what's the big deal with it, and what's wrong going with assembler?   
 Thank you, S    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2005 10:13:03 +0200 . From: huber@NOBODY-mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber) Subject: Re: Macro code + Message-ID: <$HINwt32Evqb@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>   G In article <4316b13a$1@news1.ethz.ch>, S <soterroatyahoodotcom> writes: K > Could someone please drop me a link to read about that Macro language(?)   > thing?J > I'm quite curious because I see it always mentioned as a roadblock when I > porting an OS to another platform. VMS has issues with it, Windows has  G > issues with it, so why did people use it, why do they keep using it,  E > what's the big deal with it, and what's wrong going with assembler?   E VMS MACRO IS an assembler (except macro-32 on Alpha, which in fact is G more a compiler for VAX compatibility). The name just reflects the fact E that it has macro features in addition to just assemble the symbolic  E notation of CPU instructions. Read some basic computer language book  = to learn what (text-)macros are (in contrast to subroutines). @ Nothing  is wrong with assembler, if You don't use macros, then H Macro-xx IS simply an assembler. On VMS You have only the one assembler, MACRO or MACRO-64.F (I don't know Windoze enough to know if there are different assemblers# with and without macro capabilies.)     --  @    Joseph Huber , Muenchen,Germany:  http://www.huber-joseph.de/   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 18:59:11 +10006 From: "O'Brien Paddy" <Paddy.O'Brien@transgrid.com.au> Subject: RE: Macro code X Message-ID: <8BAD914A0B8CA84C9E94187103A1AB9E05BE97@EX-TG2-PR.corporate.transgrid.local>  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5AED3.6B7824A3 . Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   G In article <4316b13a$1@news1.ethz.ch>, S <soterroatyahoodotcom> writes: K > Could someone please drop me a link to read about that Macro language(?)=  =20  > thing?J > I'm quite curious because I see it always mentioned as a roadblock when= =20 K > porting an OS to another platform. VMS has issues with it, Windows has=20 I > issues with it, so why did people use it, why do they keep using it,=20 E > what's the big deal with it, and what's wrong going with assembler?   L MACRO on VMS is effectively the machine language.  VMS machine language is =L different between VAX and Alpha (although the latter can "compile" VAX MACR=L O.  And undoubtedly different on IA.  It is the closest that you can get to=&  the actual machine code instructions.  L I'm not sure what you mean by "a roadblock", but machine code will be diffe=L rent on each platform that you use.  Different instruction sets; different =L ways of using registers; different numbers of registers.  And many other di=L fferences which use specific instructions that are available on a particula= r chip.    Regards, Paddy =20     G ***********************************************************************   C "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged @ and confidential information intended only for the use of the=20D addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of=20C this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise D the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,=207 distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.   C If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid=20 C immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the=20 ? individual sender except where the sender expressly and with=20 C authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses > virus-scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in any attachment.  < Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now$ firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"  G ***********************************************************************     ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5AED3.6B7824A3 - Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   1 <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">  <HTML> <HEAD>L <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-= 1"> K <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version 6.5.7226.0">  <TITLE>RE: Macro code</TITLE>  </HEAD>  <BODY>) <!-- Converted from text/plain format -->   L <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>In article &lt;4316b13a$1@news1.ethz.ch&gt;, S &lt;soterr= oatyahoodotcom&gt; writes:<BR>L &gt; Could someone please drop me a link to read about that Macro language(= ?)<BR> &gt; thing?<BR> L &gt; I'm quite curious because I see it always mentioned as a roadblock whe= n<BR> L &gt; porting an OS to another platform. VMS has issues with it, Windows has= <BR>L &gt; issues with it, so why did people use it, why do they keep using it,<B= R>L &gt; what's the big deal with it, and what's wrong going with assembler?<BR> <BR>L MACRO on VMS is effectively the machine language.&nbsp; VMS machine languag=L e is different between VAX and Alpha (although the latter can &quot;compile=L &quot; VAX MACRO.&nbsp; And undoubtedly different on IA.&nbsp; It is the cl=C osest that you can get to the actual machine code instructions.<BR>  <BR>L I'm not sure what you mean by &quot;a roadblock&quot;, but machine code wil=L l be different on each platform that you use.&nbsp; Different instruction s=L ets; different ways of using registers; different numbers of registers.&nbs=L p; And many other differences which use specific instructions that are avai= lable on a particular chip.<BR>  <BR> Regards, Paddy<BR>
 &nbsp;</FONT>  </P>   <FONT SIZE=3D3><BR>  <BR>K ***********************************************************************<BR>  <BR>G "This electronic message and any attachments may contain privileged<BR> B and confidential information intended only for the use of the <BR>F addressees named above.  If you are not the intended recipient of <BR>G this email, please delete the message and any attachment and advise<BR> F the sender.  You are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, <BR>; distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.<BR>  <BR>E If you have received the email in error, please notify TransGrid <BR> E immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of the <BR> A individual sender except where the sender expressly and with <BR> G authority states them to be the views of TransGrid.  TransGrid uses<BR> B virus-scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses<BR>  contained in any attachment.<BR> <BR>@ Please note the email address for TransGrid personnel is now<BR>( firstname.lastname@transgrid.com.au"<BR> <BR>K ***********************************************************************<BR>  </FONT>  </BODY>  </HTML> ) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C5AED3.6B7824A3--    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2005 03:10:38 -0700 # From: "Galen" <gltackett@gmail.com>  Subject: Re: Macro code B Message-ID: <1125569438.750763.35490@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   Paddy wrote:  - > I'm not sure what you mean by "a roadblock"   D "S" is probably thinking of the use in VMS (in its older VAX versionA especially) of hardware-specific features which wrapped a complex G atomic operation like interlocked queue insertion in one big CISC-style  machine instruction.  C When RISC architectures came along this was a bit of a roadblock, I C guess, because RISCy processors avoided the logic load required for D such complex instructions, instead favoring faster overall execution for all instructions.    Galen    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 07:21:29 -0400) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>  Subject: Re: Macro code 9 Message-ID: <7uBRe.7922$2F1.498619@news20.bellglobal.com>   L "S" <soterroatyahoodotcom> wrote in message news:4316b13a$1@news1.ethz.ch...	 > Hi all,  > K > Could someone please drop me a link to read about that Macro language(?)   > thing?J > I'm quite curious because I see it always mentioned as a roadblock when I > porting an OS to another platform. VMS has issues with it, Windows has  G > issues with it, so why did people use it, why do they keep using it,  E > what's the big deal with it, and what's wrong going with assembler?  >  > Thank you, > S   M In a nut shell, MACRO-32 was an assembler targeted at VAX while MACRO-64 was   targeted at Alpha.  6 http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware40/MACRO64/> http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/docs/alpha_diary.html#macro64  D In the modern world of RISC-based systems, topics like "instruction J scheduling" have made assemblers almost obsolete for public use. The very H best performance can usually be gained by employing a C-compiler with a 9 built-in optimizer. (HP-C for OpenVMS Alpha for example).   F However, in the practical world of business my employer believes that H applications need to be easier to maintain so has mandated the use of a J high-level languages. In our shop we use HP-BASIC for OpenVMS (which also J has a built-in optimizer) but provides us with other features like native  support for RMS file access.  I Getting back to your question, if you are doing any low-level stuff like  L writing a device driver, then languages like C or BLISS are the only way to E go. You would never use HP-BASIC to produce something like an Apache   web-server. :-)   
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada." http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 14:04:30 +0200  From: S <soterroatyahoodotcom> Subject: Re: Macro code & Message-ID: <4316ee4b$1@news1.ethz.ch>   Neil Rieck wrote: K > Getting back to your question, if you are doing any low-level stuff like  N > writing a device driver, then languages like C or BLISS are the only way to   C My question was more "what the heck is that Macro thing people are  6 talking about". Thanks to all now I got the picture :)   S    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2005 07:52:26 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Macro code 3 Message-ID: <lTXvbQ+VRXus@eisner.encompasserve.org>   G In article <4316b13a$1@news1.ethz.ch>, S <soterroatyahoodotcom> writes: 	 > Hi all,  > K > Could someone please drop me a link to read about that Macro language(?)   > thing?J > I'm quite curious because I see it always mentioned as a roadblock when I > porting an OS to another platform. VMS has issues with it, Windows has  G > issues with it, so why did people use it, why do they keep using it,  E > what's the big deal with it, and what's wrong going with assembler?   1    Macro is just assmbler with powerfull helpers.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 14:09:17 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> Subject: Re: Macro code 3 Message-ID: <hYDRe.11543$y_7.1149@news.cpqcorp.net>    Neil Rieck wrote:    > O > In a nut shell, MACRO-32 was an assembler targeted at VAX while MACRO-64 was   > targeted at Alpha. > 8 > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware40/MACRO64/@ > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/docs/alpha_diary.html#macro64 > F > In the modern world of RISC-based systems, topics like "instruction L > scheduling" have made assemblers almost obsolete for public use. The very J > best performance can usually be gained by employing a C-compiler with a ; > built-in optimizer. (HP-C for OpenVMS Alpha for example).   D BTW, Macro-64 is slightly more than just as assembler.  It actually F includes GEM's peepholer and instruction scheduler.  So what goes in,  isn't exactly what comes out.   A We also have provided an assembler for Itanium.  It is more of a  B traditional assembler.  No real optimization, but it does have an I auto-bundler so you don't have to worry about templates and where to put   in nop instructions.     > K > Getting back to your question, if you are doing any low-level stuff like  N > writing a device driver, then languages like C or BLISS are the only way to  > go.   F Writing OpenVMS device drivers in Macro-32 works quite nicely as well.  @ You would never use HP-BASIC to produce something like an Apache > web-server. :-)    Why not?  Should work.   >  > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  > Ontario, Canada.$ > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/  >  >      --   John Reagan / HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2005 12:22:34 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Macro code 3 Message-ID: <KQIjFfIVjPe2@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <hYDRe.11543$y_7.1149@news.cpqcorp.net>, John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> writes: > F > BTW, Macro-64 is slightly more than just as assembler.  It actually H > includes GEM's peepholer and instruction scheduler.  So what goes in,  > isn't exactly what comes out.   C    IIRC it's the only native thing that turns source into object on #    VMS and defaults to /nooptimize.    ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 09:39:43 -0500 (CDT)* From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda); Subject: Re: MMS V3.5 v. ODS5: Unexpected case-sensitivity? 2 Message-ID: <05090109394299_204079D5@antinode.org>  . From: klewis@LUMINA.MITRE.ORG (Keith A. Lewis)   > sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) writes in article <05082506523069_20A0026A@antinode.org> dated Thu, 25 Aug 2005 06:52:30 -0500 (CDT):, > >: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>G > >> Work around #1 you have found, rename the extension to upper case.  > > J > >   Too unpleasant.  Defeats the purpose of using an ODS5 file system to > >preserve case.  > I > Not really.  You can preserve the names and just change the extensions.   F    Yes, really.  As the rest of the world does not distinguish betweenG name and extension, changing the case of the extension is, effectively,  changing the case of the name.  7 > But then if you move it to Unix you'll have problems.   H    Well, duh.  Did you read my original posting?  The one where it said,8 "so that it would be easier to use on a non-VMS system"?  N > >> Work around #2 is to use explicit rules in the .MMS file for each target  > >> with it's sources.  > F > Maybe adding some rules to MMS$RULES?  (I couldn't find the originalB > MMS$RULES file in the product distribution, so I copied from theN > documentation when I needed to change things.)  I'm thinking of source rules > such as .c.OBJ, .h.TLB, etc.  F    Just curious: Did you look at the example I provided?  The one with( the rule?  Did you get it to work?  How?  .    As for the default rules, you might look in! SYS$COMMON:[SYSHLP.EXAMPLES.MMS].       Am I sounding grumpy again?  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 07:32:04 -0400? From: "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" <david@hpaq.net> . Subject: OpenVMS Special an Autumn Alpha DS10L0 Message-ID: <11hdpi310n7ou71@corp.supernews.com>   Our special this month   Alphaserver DS10L 466Mhz 256MB Memory 30GB IDE 7200RPM Disk  CDROM and Floppy Combo 1 Open PCI Slot  Free Mouse Pad  % Only $549 while stocks last !!!!!!!!! . Or add $129 for an ATI Radeon 7500 with 64MB *     12 months warranty   Shipping USA: $45  Shipping UK: $90 Shipping EU: $110  Shipping Canada: $70? Shipping to Other Countries; Email for Quote sales@islandco.com     7 *Offer on RADEON is not valid without purchase of DS10L  --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X252  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@icusc.com  Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2005 07:42:19 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) + Subject: Re: Pass arguments to a .com file. 3 Message-ID: <AsZ8eEGCJ7CL@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Z In article <df5gba$ple$1@news01.intel.com>, Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com> writes:F >      Right.  $ DEL*ETE == "DELETE/CONFIRM" is especially frustratingB > when you're wanting to do a DELETE/ENTRY or DELETE/SYMBOL, etc.   H    If DEL*ETE == "DELETE/CONFIRM" then DELETE/SYMBOL will complain, but 3    will work when you DELETE/SYMBOL/GLOBAL DELETE .   *    Which has always served me well enough.   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2005 07:40:17 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) + Subject: Re: Pass arguments to a .com file. 3 Message-ID: <uj2sxcEwN$kY@eisner.encompasserve.org>   @ In article <iDlRe.4072$aR1.3063@fe07.lga>, Z <Z@no.spam> writes:  I > Users I run across seem to _love_ $DEL*ETE :== ... in their LOGIN.COMs  @ > and using the full spelling of DELETE doesn't circumvent that.  ;    That's what DELETEE is for.  I use it in lots of places.    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2005 09:17:56 +0100 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: problem with SLS , Message-ID: <4316c744$1@news.langstoeger.at>  ` In article <4316501E.2EE6E5AE@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: >NOSPAM wrote:8 >Try a newer SLS. The current version is V2.9H, I think.   V2.9J since VMS V8.2  : http://h30266.www3.hp.com/masterindex/spd/spd_0027de40.txt  A  o  OpenVMS VAX Operating System, Versions 6.2, 7.1, 7.2 and 7.3.   D  o  OpenVMS Alpha Operating System, Versions 6.2, 7.1-2, 7.2-1, 7.2-!     2, 7.3, 7.3-1, 7.3-2 and 8.2.   G  Note: SLS V2.9J does not utilize ODS5 disk structure. SLS V2.9J is not   supported on OpenVMS 5.5-2.H  OpenVMS Versions 7.2-2 and later provide support for Fibre Channel (FC)E  connected tape devices. This is accomplished through the use of Mod- D  ular Data Router (MDR) or Network Storage Router (NSR) connected toE  the FC Switch. Either router converts Fibre Channel protocol to SCSI ,  protocl, which the tape device understands.   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2005 10:29:10 -0700 ! From: kenneth.randell@verizon.net L Subject: Re: Setting 'default' DECWindows display with multi-heads on rx26xxB Message-ID: <1125595750.272716.96470@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   FredK wrote: > $ DECW$DEVICE == "GHB0, GHA0"  >   / Thanks for that -- it's now working as desired.    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2005 07:43:44 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) % Subject: Re: SFTP in batch- password? 3 Message-ID: <1X$lnkTcBp1p@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Z In article <11hc36pj7m46pd2@corp.supernews.com>, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: > DeanW wrote: >>  " >> SFTP or sneakernet, I'm afraid. > F > Run a 'tunnel' between the VMS systems.  DECnet, TCP/IP, most every B > protocol should work.  In theory.  In practice may be different.  D    If you know what IP port your stack will tunnel DECnet over, thenD    you can SSH tunnel that port.  And the network "gurus" will never    know.   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2005 02:54:19 -0700 # From: "Galen" <gltackett@gmail.com> % Subject: Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX B Message-ID: <1125568459.276962.10110@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>  F To my ear VAXen has always suggested vixen, which originally in MiddleF English just meant a female fox. If VAXen had been a singular form and> if they came in two genders the other might be called a VOX orD something similar. (I'm not at all clear on M.E. vowel mutations, or whatever they might be called.)   C The few English plurals in "(e)n" derive from the "weak declension" B nouns in early English and its Germanic ancestors. In this context> VAXen is mentioned  in a Wikipedia article on English plurals:F http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_plural#Irregular_Germanic_plurals  C The Wikepedia article also mentions these  other plurals in "n(e)", G some archaic or dialect: "kine" (cows), "shoon" (shoes), children (from 1 an earlier plural form "childre"), "eyen" (eyes).    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2005 04:04:34 -0700 3 From: "Big John" <john.powers@airwidesolutions.com> % Subject: Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX B Message-ID: <1125572674.525111.18420@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   Well, I've always preferred..   . Since the plural of 'appendix' is 'appendices'$ What's wrong with 'VAX' -> 'VACES' ?   : John )   Jim MacKenzie wrote:3 > "H Vlems" <nospam@what.ever.com> wrote in message 8 > news:c725d$431600c5$513b9a2c$21263@news.versatel.nl... > > H > > If VAX is considered to be a noun then in dutch you'd be correct. InL > > english, a foreign language for me, I'd hesitate. IMHO the plural of VAX > > is > > VAX systems. > D > If "VAX systems" is the plural, then "VAX system" is the singular. > K > If we can use "VAX" as a singular, then it must have a plural form.  "ax" H > (sometimes spelled "axe") is "axes" in the plural, but "ox" is "oxen". > E > If it were my paper, I'd be inclined to use "VAXen" - it seems well M > accepted - but I'd insert a footnote at the first iteration, explaining why 
 > I chose it.  >  > Jim    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 13:57:27 +0200  From: S <soterroatyahoodotcom>% Subject: Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX & Message-ID: <4316eca3$1@news1.ethz.ch>   Big John wrote: & > What's wrong with 'VAX' -> 'VACES' ?   It points to our Vices.    S    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:06:44 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com% Subject: Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX Q Message-ID: <OFA2C1908B.B2E2E5BF-ON8525706F.005D5075-8525706F.005E000C@metso.com>   J "Big John" <john.powers@airwidesolutions.com> wrote on 09/01/2005 07:04:34 AM:    > Well, I've always preferred..  > 0 > Since the plural of 'appendix' is 'appendices'  ? Well, actually, the Latin plural of "appendix" is "appendices." 1 The English plural of "appendix" is "appendixes."   C [Not all words migrate exactly from Latin to English.  For example, @ "agenda" is a Latin plural form, but in English it means a list,@ and so can take an English plural of "agendas," which to a Roman* would be like "listses," which is absurd.]  E We also, except in jest, do not use "hippopotami" for hippopotamuses.   D VAXen, to the point, is probably a corruption suggested by Oxen, andA has made a place in our argot because it appeals to the desire to C be slightly obscure and too strange by half.  I would not use it in  the non-VAX world.    & > What's wrong with 'VAX' -> 'VACES' ? > 
 > : John ) >  > Jim MacKenzie wrote:5 > > "H Vlems" <nospam@what.ever.com> wrote in message : > > news:c725d$431600c5$513b9a2c$21263@news.versatel.nl... > > > J > > > If VAX is considered to be a noun then in dutch you'd be correct. InJ > > > english, a foreign language for me, I'd hesitate. IMHO the plural of VAX  > > > is > > > VAX systems. > > F > > If "VAX systems" is the plural, then "VAX system" is the singular. > > G > > If we can use "VAX" as a singular, then it must have a plural form.  "ax"J > > (sometimes spelled "axe") is "axes" in the plural, but "ox" is "oxen". > > G > > If it were my paper, I'd be inclined to use "VAXen" - it seems well K > > accepted - but I'd insert a footnote at the first iteration, explaining  why  > > I chose it.  > >  > > Jim  >    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2005 12:25:45 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) % Subject: Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX 3 Message-ID: <gjkSXfhnEcUq@eisner.encompasserve.org>   p In article <OFA2C1908B.B2E2E5BF-ON8525706F.005D5075-8525706F.005E000C@metso.com>, norm.raphael@metso.com writes:  F > VAXen, to the point, is probably a corruption suggested by Oxen, andC > has made a place in our argot because it appeals to the desire to E > be slightly obscure and too strange by half.  I would not use it in  > the non-VAX world.  H    I was always under the impression that VAXen was a half-joking slang.B    At best jargon peculiar to the VMS community (I've never had an    ULTRIX lover say "VAXen").   G    I would not use it in formal writing.  But I use it on c.o.v. a lot.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.488 ************************                                                                                                                                                                      "/disk$misc/decus/info-vax" is current directory.<$ <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus/info-vax/1 >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/info-vax.e <<< TYPE I >>> 200 Type I ok.  <<< PORT 213,10,197,227,14,1406 >>> 200 Port 14.140 at Host 213.10.197.227 accepted. <<< SIZE 2004_587.txtd >>> 213 73862 <<< RETR 2004_587.txtkY >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/info-vax/2004_587.txt (73862 bytes) started.i; >>> 226 Transfer completed.  70782 (8) bytes transferred. $ <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus/info-vax/1 >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/info-vax.$
 <<< noop >>> 200 No-operation OK.$ <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus/info-vax/1 >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/info-vax.9	 <<< PWD0; >>> 257 "/disk$misc/decus/info-vax" is current directory.<$ <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus/info-vax/1 >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/info-vax.e <<< TYPE I >>> 200 Type I ok.  <<< PORT 213,10,197,227,14,1416 >>> 200 Port 14.141 at Host 213.10.197.227 accepted. <<< SIZE 2004_588.txtd >>> 213 54992 <<< RETR 2004_588.txtkY >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/info-vax/2004_588.txt (54992 bytes) started.i; >>> 226 Transfer completed.  52492 (8) bytes transferred. $ <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus/info-vax/1 >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/info-vax.$
 <<< noop >>> 200 No-operation OK.$ <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus/info-vax/1 >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/info-vax.9	 <<< PWD1; >>> 257 "/disk$misc/decus/info-vax" is current directory.<$ <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus/info-vax/1 >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/info-vax.e <<< TYPE I >>> 200 Type I ok.  <<< PORT 213,10,197,227,14,1426 >>> 200 Port 14.142 at Host 213.10.197.227 accepted. <<< SIZE 2004_589.txtd >>> 213 36492 <<< RETR 2004_589.txtkY >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/info-vax/2004_589.txt (36492 bytes) started.i; >>> 226 Transfer completed.  34852 (8) bytes transferred. $ <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus/info-vax/1 >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/info-vax.$
 <<< noop >>> 200 No-operation OK.$ <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus/info-vax/1 >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/info-vax.9	 <<< PWD2; >>> 257 "/disk$misc/decus/info-vax" is current directory.<$ <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus/info-vax/1 >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/info-vax.e <<< TYPE I >>> 200 Type I ok.  <<< PORT 213,10,197,227,14,1436 >>> 200 Port 14.143 at Host 213.10.197.227 accepted. <<< SIZE 2004_590.txtd >>> 213 44294 <<< RETR 2004_590.txtkY >>> 150 IMAGE retrieve of /disk$misc/decus/info-vax/2004_590.txt (44294 bytes) started.i; >>> 226 Transfer completed.  42300 (8) bytes transferred. $ <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus/info-vax/1 >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/info-vax.$
 <<< noop >>> 200 No-operation OK.$ <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus/info-vax/1 >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/info-vax.9	 <<< PWD3; >>> 257 "/disk$misc/decus/info-vax" is current directory.<$ <<< CWD /disk$misc/decus/info-vax/1 >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/info-v