1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 07 Sep 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 499       Contents: Re: /include/nocopy # Re: ARCH_NAME nomenclature question 9 DEC/DECUS memorabilia -- ebay categories and search terms = Re: DEC/DECUS memorabilia -- ebay categories and search terms = Re: DEC/DECUS memorabilia -- ebay categories and search terms = Re: DEC/DECUS memorabilia -- ebay categories and search terms  Re: Has HP Forgotten?  Re: Has HP Forgotten?  Re: Has HP Forgotten?  Re: Has HP Forgotten?  Re: Has HP Forgotten?  Re: Has HP Forgotten?  Re: Has HP Forgotten?  Re: Has HP Forgotten?  Re: Has HP Forgotten?  Re: Has HP Forgotten?  Re: Has HP Forgotten?  Re: Has HP Forgotten? 0 Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15)0 Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15)0 Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15)0 Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15)0 Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15)0 Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15)0 Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15)0 Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15)0 Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15)0 Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15)0 Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15) Re: Macro code+ Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64  Perl Net::SMTP module  Re: Perl Net::SMTP module  Re: Perl Net::SMTP module  Re: Security - John the Ripper Re: Security - John the Ripper Re: Security - John the Ripper1 Re: tcp connection that looks like a serial port? 1 Re: tcp connection that looks like a serial port? 1 Re: tcp connection that looks like a serial port? 1 Re: tcp connection that looks like a serial port?  Re: VAXen as a plural of VAXI Re: [OpenVMS V7.3-2,DWMOTIF V1.3-1] DECW$SERVER in Endless Loop at Prio 6 I Re: [OpenVMS V7.3-2,DWMOTIF V1.3-1] DECW$SERVER in Endless Loop at Prio 6 I Re: [OpenVMS V7.3-2,DWMOTIF V1.3-1] DECW$SERVER in Endless Loop at Prio 6 I Re: [OpenVMS V7.3-2,DWMOTIF V1.3-1] DECW$SERVER in Endless Loop at Prio 6   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 06 Sep 2005 19:05:50 GMT6 From: spamsink2001@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (AEF) Subject: Re: /include/nocopyE Message-ID: <431de88e$0$32203$892e7fe2@authen.white.readfreenews.net>   / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: ; > In article <d29ucg$cno$1@news01.intel.com>, Ken Fairfield ! > my.full.name@intel.com> writes:  >  > Why use /INCLUDE?  > < > Because of the context: /NOinclude is the default, and if,C > as we did, you specify a single member to the /Shadow= qualifier, 1 > you need /INCLUDE to pick up all valid members.  > B > All seem to agree now that /NOCOPY was the essential bit of your > stuff C > at SLAC.  Is there any reason to use /INCLUDE other than to avoid ) > listing all the members in the command?  > ? I think /include is useful for situations like this: You have a @ 3-member shadow set. You shut your app, dissolve the shadow set,D remount it with one less member, and do a tape backup of the missing? member. Later you add the 3rd member back to the shadow set. By E specifying the 1st disk with /include in your startup, if you need to E boot, you'll return to the same config of disks you had when you shut C down. This is very much like how a system disk shadow set works. In + both cases you must pick the "master" disk.   D I noticed there is a "new" qualifier that may address the problem of4 the node with the less current disk coming up first:F /policy=require_members. With this qualifier, no disk is mounted until all needed disks are available.   E DEC/Compaq/HP have added a lot of new qualfiers for shadowing to suit  different needs.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 16:17:55 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> , Subject: Re: ARCH_NAME nomenclature question, Message-ID: <431DF969.2CDCE648@teksavvy.com>   Hoff Hoffman wrote: 3 > :(eg: no spaces, limited to digits and letters) ?  > F >   I am aware of no such guarantees within the OpenVMS documentation.  A Would it be possible at this point in time to include this in the G documentation, stating that it can be assumed that the ARCH_NAME can be ) used to construct symbols and filenames ?   A So far, all 3 architectures fit that requirement. If there are no E porting to be done ever to VMS, then adding this to the documentation C won't hurt, and *if* they decide to save VMS and port it to another I platform, there will be documented guidance on how to name that platform.   F And if you decide NOT to provide such garantee, then the documentation> should perhaps state that the ARCH_NAME is not garanteed to be symbol/filename clean.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 17:25:20 -0700 4 From: Alan Frisbie <Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com>B Subject: DEC/DECUS memorabilia -- ebay categories and search terms% Message-ID: <1126052592.549110@smirk>   6 I am getting ready to put a bunch of DEC/DECUS-related7 memorabilia on ebay.   This includes coffee mugs, pens, 6 buttons, rulers, posters, and other convention "swag".2 Some is from the estates of friends, some is mine.  7 Assuming that anyone even *wants* this stuff, what ebay & category would you look in to find it?  6 I am guessing that most DEC fans do their searching in4 categories like "Computers & Networking" or "Vintage4 Computing Products".   But do DEC coffee mugs belong8 there?   Would you expect to find them in "Collectibles" or "Pottery & Glass"?   4 If you are interested in such items, what categories9 would you be looking in?   What words should I use in the 4 titles and descriptions to help you find them amidst8 the clutter?   As you can tell, I've never sold anything on ebay before.   :-)   5 What search strings do *you* use to help you find the & DEC-related stuff you are looking for?  6 BTW, this is only the beginning, as I try to empty out two 10' x 30' storage units.   Thanks,  Alan  " Frisbie <at> Flying-Disk <dot> com, or remove "_REMOVE" from the posting address   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Sep 2005 17:27:43 -0700 . From: "Dan  Williams" <williams.dan@gmail.com>F Subject: Re: DEC/DECUS memorabilia -- ebay categories and search termsC Message-ID: <1126052863.897034.223820@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    Alan Frisbie wrote: 8 > I am getting ready to put a bunch of DEC/DECUS-related9 > memorabilia on ebay.   This includes coffee mugs, pens, 8 > buttons, rulers, posters, and other convention "swag".4 > Some is from the estates of friends, some is mine. > 9 > Assuming that anyone even *wants* this stuff, what ebay ( > category would you look in to find it? > 8 > I am guessing that most DEC fans do their searching in6 > categories like "Computers & Networking" or "Vintage6 > Computing Products".   But do DEC coffee mugs belong: > there?   Would you expect to find them in "Collectibles" > or "Pottery & Glass"?  > 6 > If you are interested in such items, what categories; > would you be looking in?   What words should I use in the 6 > titles and descriptions to help you find them amidst: > the clutter?   As you can tell, I've never sold anything > on ebay before.   :-)  > 7 > What search strings do *you* use to help you find the ( > DEC-related stuff you are looking for? > 8 > BTW, this is only the beginning, as I try to empty out > two 10' x 30' storage units. > 	 > Thanks,  > Alan > $ > Frisbie <at> Flying-Disk <dot> com. > or remove "_REMOVE" from the posting address  G I would probably say to put them in Vintage computing and then once you G have listed them all post your ebay id.If you don't want people to know 3 your ebay id then create a new one for these items.      Dan    Dan    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Sep 2005 22:36:16 -0400 % From: kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) F Subject: Re: DEC/DECUS memorabilia -- ebay categories and search terms+ Message-ID: <dfljn0$frm$1@panix2.panix.com>   6 Alan Frisbie  <Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> wrote: > 6 >What search strings do *you* use to help you find the' >DEC-related stuff you are looking for?   8 I don't know, but I'd put "swag" somewhere in the field.  B And if you EVER find any of the VM/370 T-shirts that IBM gave out ? which said "You Can See It, But It's Not There," I will pay for 1 one.  My mom threw mine out in the mid-seventies.  --scott    --  6 "C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 22:59:58 -0500 " From: bugs@pu.net (Mark Hittinger)F Subject: Re: DEC/DECUS memorabilia -- ebay categories and search terms0 Message-ID: <mOCdnVDIOtgj-IPeRVn-gw@comcast.com>  6 Alan Frisbie <Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> writes:8 >Assuming that anyone even *wants* this stuff, what ebay' >category would you look in to find it?   I There will be a lot of false positive on "digital equipment" so I tend to B look for "digital equipment corporation", "dec pdp", or "dec vax".  I I've seen a lot of different things there such as mugs, shirts, corporate C posters, rugs, stock certificates, etc :-) with those search terms.    Later    Mark Hittinger bugs@pu.net    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Sep 2005 17:53:00 GMT . From: JONESD@ecr6.ohio-state.edu (David Jones) Subject: Re: Has HP Forgotten?: Message-ID: <dfkl1s$nf9$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>  8 In message <P0kTe.703$fb.265@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,-    Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net> writes: D >I recall CNN reporting on Monday morning that flood gauges had goneF >off-scale then offline and they thought that meant a levee breech hadD >occurred. Of course when journalists saw no water downtown that wasE >downplayed for 24 hours while they all looked at the Superdome roof.  >   I If they didn't know, then it was entirely prudent to wait for an accurate K assessment of the situation and not jump the gun in announcing an immediate 
 cancellation.   A >Pictures of entire towns destroyed only really started going out 9 >Tuesday. That didn't mean they weren't destroyed Monday.   N The towns on the coast were not New Orleans, and the pictures of the SuperdomeM and Hyatt damage may have made the total damage to NO look worse than it was. L The convention center appeared to be in good shape, I remember thinking thatF Monday that they may cancel it due to needing the hotel space to house- refugees from the coast, not due to flooding.       < David L. Jones               |      Phone:    (614) 271-6718- Ohio State University        |      Internet: L 140 W. 19th St.              |               jonesd@er6s1.eng.ohio-state.edu: Columbus, OH 43210           |               vman+@osu.edu  1 Disclaimer: I'm looking for marbles all day long.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 18:14:48 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net> Subject: Re: Has HP Forgotten?: Message-ID: <s0lTe.1264$k22.160@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>   David Jones wrote:   > K > If they didn't know, then it was entirely prudent to wait for an accurate M > assessment of the situation and not jump the gun in announcing an immediate  > cancellation.   I The point of the article wasn't so much to say that it wasn't prudent to  I wait, it was saying it wasn't prudent for HP to take random pot shots at  I the press in these circumstances. Just how paranoid is HP these days? PR  A is supposed to build relations with the press - not destroy them.    > B >>Pictures of entire towns destroyed only really started going out: >>Tuesday. That didn't mean they weren't destroyed Monday. >  > P > The towns on the coast were not New Orleans, and the pictures of the Superdome  F Exactly and they could no more see these towns Monday night than they F could see more than 1/2 mile around the Superdome. Just watched local E senator on WWL tv say they were rescuing people from rooftops Monday  I night while the press were still focussing on the Superdome. If anything  E the press downplayed it initially while HP were suggesting they were  
 exaggerating.   O > and Hyatt damage may have made the total damage to NO look worse than it was. N > The convention center appeared to be in good shape, I remember thinking thatH > Monday that they may cancel it due to needing the hotel space to house/ > refugees from the coast, not due to flooding.   G And I remember thinking this was a cat 4 (which had already driven the  H surge at cat 5 - lot of momentum in that water) with a western eye-wall H directly over the NE of the lake and wondering when we'd see the *real* C   damage reports start to come in. The levees failed in at least 3  I distinct areas with other sections well on the way to failure before the  H major breaks took the pressure off. This wasn't one unlucky break. This ( was the system failing catastrophically.  E Again look at what happened to the "longest bridge in the world" and  F multiple other supposedly cat 5 proof structures. This was a disaster  from the word go in my eyes.   --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 11:27:00 -0700 ! From: Fred Bach <music@triumf.ca>  Subject: Re: Has HP Forgotten?( Message-ID: <431DDF74.8040504@triumf.ca>  <   Everyone seems to be forgetting that the mayor had ordered=   New Orleans EVACUATED.  Such measures are not taken lightly A   and even if the evacuation order were rescinded after the storm @   (it wasn't) then the logistics of moving that many people back@   home should have been a big hint.  You gonna hold a convention
   after that? 5 .fred bach.  music@triumf.ca  Opinions are only mine.      David Jones wrote:: > In message <P0kTe.703$fb.265@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,/ >    Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net> writes:  > E >>I recall CNN reporting on Monday morning that flood gauges had gone G >>off-scale then offline and they thought that meant a levee breech had E >>occurred. Of course when journalists saw no water downtown that was F >>downplayed for 24 hours while they all looked at the Superdome roof. >> >  > K > If they didn't know, then it was entirely prudent to wait for an accurate M > assessment of the situation and not jump the gun in announcing an immediate  > cancellation.  >  > B >>Pictures of entire towns destroyed only really started going out: >>Tuesday. That didn't mean they weren't destroyed Monday. >  > P > The towns on the coast were not New Orleans, and the pictures of the SuperdomeO > and Hyatt damage may have made the total damage to NO look worse than it was. N > The convention center appeared to be in good shape, I remember thinking thatH > Monday that they may cancel it due to needing the hotel space to house/ > refugees from the coast, not due to flooding.  >  >  > > > David L. Jones               |      Phone:    (614) 271-6718/ > Ohio State University        |      Internet: N > 140 W. 19th St.              |               jonesd@er6s1.eng.ohio-state.edu< > Columbus, OH 43210           |               vman+@osu.edu > 3 > Disclaimer: I'm looking for marbles all day long.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 19:19:16 GMT 1 From: Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com>  Subject: Re: Has HP Forgotten?2 Message-ID: <UYlTe.11885$h55.728@news.cpqcorp.net>   norm.raphael@metso.com wrote: \ > http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/security/recovery/story/0,10801,104332,00.html    I think the criticism is unfair.  H First of all, it confuses HP itself with the "HP Technology Forum Team" G which is led by the Encompass US Chapter, OpenView Forum International  " etc. along with some help from HP.  F The news reports on Sunday and Monday didn't allow one who was not in F the area to get an accurate idea of the extent of the damage (and the I damage to New Orleans also got worse as time went on). I was wondering a  F little bit about the Forum on Sunday, but along with many others, had E been led to believe by the news reports thus far that the event most  G likely could still be held as planned. On Monday, I was starting to be  C more concerned, and was very relieved to see a message from the HP  D Technology Forum Team saying they were monitoring the situation and : would let us know as soon as they could what would happen.  C While the Monday message promised that a decision would be made by  ? Friday at the latest, in actual fact the decision was made and  F publicized the very next day, Tuesday. I think they did a good job of  proactive communications.   F One other factor the criticism misses is that the HP Technology Forum C Team was and is very cognizant of the negative financial impact of  E cancelling the Forum, and they were (and are) quite obviously taking  K every step possible to avoid adding to the injury New Orleans has suffered.    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Sep 2005 19:19:01 GMT . From: JONESD@ecr6.ohio-state.edu (David Jones) Subject: Re: Has HP Forgotten?: Message-ID: <dfkq35$nu9$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>  9 In message <s0lTe.1264$k22.160@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk> +  Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net> writes: I >The point of the article wasn't so much to say that it wasn't prudent to I >wait, it was saying it wasn't prudent for HP to take random pot shots at I >the press in these circumstances. Just how paranoid is HP these days? PR B >is supposed to build relations with the press - not destroy them.  L I didn't think it was a random pot shot, just being circumspect about initalO media reports.   There were 3 versions of the 'contractors being shot at' story  over the weekend, for example.    < David L. Jones               |      Phone:    (614) 271-6718- Ohio State University        |      Internet: L 140 W. 19th St.              |               jonesd@er6s1.eng.ohio-state.edu: Columbus, OH 43210           |               vman+@osu.edu  1 Disclaimer: I'm looking for marbles all day long.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 15:23:41 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: Has HP Forgotten?Q Message-ID: <OF20DA2366.0E2AEB0A-ON85257074.006A162C-85257074.006A89F3@metso.com>   H Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote on 09/06/2005 03:19:16 PM:    > norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:   G Lest anyone become confused, I did not nor do I endorse this editorial. G I merely cited it as an example of perceived damage to HP in how it was E worded.  Keith is correct in that the authorship of the attack on the F press - if indeed there was an attack - is misattributed, but when youD call yourself "HP Technology Forum" and are partnered with HP, it isG really hard to convince skeptics that you are operating in a vacuum and H shooting from the hip and that that you are and you did is a good thing.   -Norm    > > http://www.computerworld. E > > com/securitytopics/security/recovery/story/0,10801,104332,00.html  > " > I think the criticism is unfair. > I > First of all, it confuses HP itself with the "HP Technology Forum Team" H > which is led by the Encompass US Chapter, OpenView Forum International$ > etc. along with some help from HP. > G > The news reports on Sunday and Monday didn't allow one who was not in G > the area to get an accurate idea of the extent of the damage (and the J > damage to New Orleans also got worse as time went on). I was wondering aG > little bit about the Forum on Sunday, but along with many others, had F > been led to believe by the news reports thus far that the event mostH > likely could still be held as planned. On Monday, I was starting to beD > more concerned, and was very relieved to see a message from the HPE > Technology Forum Team saying they were monitoring the situation and < > would let us know as soon as they could what would happen. > D > While the Monday message promised that a decision would be made by@ > Friday at the latest, in actual fact the decision was made andG > publicized the very next day, Tuesday. I think they did a good job of  > proactive communications.  > G > One other factor the criticism misses is that the HP Technology Forum D > Team was and is very cognizant of the negative financial impact ofF > cancelling the Forum, and they were (and are) quite obviously takingC > every step possible to avoid adding to the injury New Orleans has 	 suffered.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 16:09:26 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: Has HP Forgotten?, Message-ID: <431DF76B.D5534BFA@teksavvy.com>  @ norm.raphael@metso.com quoted don_tennant  at computerworld.com:F > It was kind of surreal to read that on the conference Web site whileJ > toggling to various news sites to read about and view the devastation ofI > New Orleans. "Are they kidding?" I asked myself. "The place is a wreck! L > There's absolutely no way they can go ahead with the conference. Why can't > they see that?"     C While the web site took a few hours to acknowledge the hurricane, I E think that HP's response was correct. Yes, there seems to have been a D major storm, but we are going to wait to get official reports beforeF making a decision. Had the levees not breached, it may have been quite2 possible that the conference could have been held.  A I was once at a meeting ina hotel i LA the week of the Northridge E earthquake. Hosts confirmed there was no damage where the meeting was E being held.  The media had made it out to be a huge disaster, showing H only destroyed areas. On the plane, everyone looked down to see how muchH damage there was, but you couldn't spot any. I was driven around on thatH highway where there had been major collapse of an interchange. And had IF not looked for it, I wouldn't have noticed it. The rubble had all beenH taken away already, and the edges of remaining sections been neatly beenK cut (I guess to remove any pieces that might fall down when road reopened).   B In the city itself, you woudln't know there had been an earthquakeD except for a few cracks here and there. That was just about one week after the event.      H So, HP was right is reserving judgement until it got some official news.G Cities are large and it is often the case that one area may be damaged, E but the rest are all fine. And some damage can be repaired/cleaned up 
 very fast.  J > Now, I have no problem with a healthy skepticism of media reports. We inD > the media have goofed up frequently enough to have brought that onC > ourselves. But I do have a problem with HP sending out a sweeping 0 > accusatory message under these circumstances.   0 In french there is a saying "La Vrit Choque".   H US media still use words such as "widespread damage at the port". BBC isC showing the portions of the port that are operational again and how G quickly the rest is being cleaned up. And yes, they have power contrary  to what US media are saying.   > I have no idea how aG > journalist would even begin to go about sensationalizing this story.    C By visiting only the damaged/flooded sections and not giving a "big G picture" story of the metropolitan area. In fact, the convention centre C (the very one HP was supposed to be in) had not been covered by the F media because it was not located in an "interesting" area since it was in a dry area.     > NobodyH > has been making this stuff up. We've seen the devastation with our ownG > eyes, and we've heard vivid firsthand accounts of the enormity of the  > hurricane's impact.   ? New Orleans is not on the shore of the ocean. It didn't get the B devastating damage from the winds or a massive ocean swell. It gotF downed trees etc, and then got a controlled flooding that happned over hours, not seconds/minutes.   L > Coast was being covered. They subsequently explained to us (in PR) that atJ > that time they didn't want attendees to hastily cancel their plans basedL > solely on media images -- we all remained 'cautiously optimistic' that NewL > Orleans had been spared the worst of it. Other areas were showing signs ofI > severe damage and it would be understandably easy to confuse locations.   D Which is correct. Had the convention centre and most hotels reported> they would be back up within 2 weeks, (as well as airport) theD conference would not have been cancelled, even if other parts of theH metroipolitan area were still under a lot of damage.  There was no pointG in HP making a harsh decision based only on initial media reports which > didn't cover the convention centre.   Had the media showed the@ convention centre right away, HP's reaction may have beern quiteG different. But the fact that they were not showing it meant that it had  not been damaged/flooded.     L > OK, but I still question the indecisiveness -- there simply was no need to3 > leave hundreds of users in limbo, even for a day.   D I disagree. HP acted responsibly. And while they could have put up aB message on their web site the minute the evacuation order had beenH called stating that they were monitoring the situation and to stay tuned@ for further developments, I think they acted without panic in anF intelligent way. And in fact, the fact that they announced "postponed"F left the door opened for the event to still be held in NO should it beE restored to "we accept tourists" state within a few weeks. Obviously, K that won't be the case, and HP is probably now looking at alternate cities.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 16:37:04 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: Has HP Forgotten?, Message-ID: <431DFDE4.8DA6C15E@teksavvy.com>   Keith Parris wrote: G > One other factor the criticism misses is that the HP Technology Forum D > Team was and is very cognizant of the negative financial impact ofF > cancelling the Forum, and they were (and are) quite obviously takingM > every step possible to avoid adding to the injury New Orleans has suffered.   A What I'd like to know is whether HP was able to get in touch with B confence centre management before announcing what is essentially a cancellation of the event   B The major hotels, being part of chains, would have been reacheable> through the chain's head office to get some status and discussC cancellation policies etc. But the conference centre, unless it has - offices outside of NO would not be reachable.   G Had the conference centre and major hotels been able to host the even 2 @ weeks later, a premature cancellation of the evant without firstQ contacting the hotels/convention centre would have been a much bigger PR blunder.   G I am not known as a supporter for HP, but on this, they acted properly.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 20:58:53 GMT % From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>  Subject: Re: Has HP Forgotten?: Message-ID: <hqnTe.393$au2.286@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com>   >  > Has HP Forgotten?  >  > Opinion by Don Tennant > L > SEPTEMBER 05, 2005 (COMPUTERWORLD) - I couldn't have been the only one who  M I think it's hilarious that a journalist is sensationalizing a comment about  & how journalists sensationalize events.  M Computerworld has been particularly bad about that recently and this is just   another instance.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 17:09:55 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: Has HP Forgotten?' Message-ID: <431E0595.6C5525C2@doe.org>    Alan Greig wrote: I > world) remained operational throughout Monday and most of Tuesday until I > it was submerged. And it wasn't until the media woke up and found their @ > hotels under water that they realised there had been a breech.    @ I recall CNN mentioning rumours of a  breech quite early on, andA followed by reports of rising water, including when one hospitral G warning it now had water on its ground floor and that it was noticeably N rising and that if it came up to 2nd ffloor, they woudl lose their generators.  E > occurred. Of course when journalists saw no water downtown that was F > downplayed for 24 hours while they all looked at the Superdome roof.   Agreed on that.   B > Pictures of entire towns destroyed only really started going out: > Tuesday. That didn't mean they weren't destroyed Monday.  F But those have no relation to New Orleans. They are on the coast.  NewH Orleans is an event by itself, with the massive destruction on the coastH a different type of event. And destruction on the coast may not have had0 any impact on the hodling of a conference in NO.  G In fact, had there been just cosmetic damage to NO (such as the roof on H stadium), the mayor and goveror would have welcomed HP stating they wereH committed to New Orleans and hold the conference as planned to show that9 the city was operational and keep the tourists coming in.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 21:41:42 GMT 1 From: Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com>  Subject: Re: Has HP Forgotten?2 Message-ID: <q2oTe.11919$U85.708@news.cpqcorp.net>  C > What I'd like to know is whether HP was able to get in touch with D > confence centre management before announcing what is essentially a > cancellation of the event   I Again, it was not HP itself, but the "HP Technology Forum Team" involved.   F The communication on Monday only said "We are in direct communication G with contacts in New Orleans" so we don't know for sure from that, but  H I'd expect the Convention Center folks were among the primary ones with ! which the team was communicating.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 23:34:39 GMT 1 From: Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com>  Subject: Re: Has HP Forgotten?4 Message-ID: <jIpTe.11942$qh5.10563@news.cpqcorp.net>  G With regard to HP itself, HP has quietly donated $1 Million to the Red  = Cross and is also matching employee gifts dollar for dollar.  5 http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/katrina_relief.html    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 15:30:03 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 9 Subject: Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15) , Message-ID: <431DEE33.AC6C814B@teksavvy.com>   Bob Koehler wrote:B >    No.  The military does not generally keep a constant state ofE >    readiness comparable to what it would have required to intercept H >    the first three airplanes on 9/11.  If they did then the third, and6 >    possibly the second, might have been intercepted.  B Actually, there was one huge communicatiosn problem on 9-11. ThereA wasn't one person in the USA who was aware that 4 planes had been 
 hijacked.   B American airlines operations were aware two of its planes had beenD hijacked, but was not aware that United had 2 highjackings, and viceE versa.  AA admitted that it realised UA also had highjackings when it D saw footage of the UA plane hitting the WTC after its plane hit it.   @ This has now been fixed because any plane that is out of contactE immediatly triggers a message to the military to escort the plane, so 5 the military would be aware of multiple highjackings.   H On 9-11, it wasn't until the second plane hit the WTC that they realised this was no accident.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 20:00:20 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>9 Subject: Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15) = Message-ID: <ozmTe.12696$2n6.10170@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>    JF Mezei wrote:   G > There was no free bus service. Amtrak, Bus and Airport were shutdown. L > There may have been an evacuation order, but there was no evacuation plan.  E According to the mayor there was. It was limited, he said,  but they  I couldn't even fill what they had despite, he said, his pleading on local  G radio and tv for people to get on them. As to the airport, it remained  A open Sunday but virtually all flights out were cancelled because  I airlines cancelled their flights into the region therefore there were no  D planes to fly out. Airlines were not willing to fly in their planes , empty. That's according to the mayor anyway.   --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 15:47:38 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 9 Subject: Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15) , Message-ID: <431DF251.A900413A@teksavvy.com>   Alan Greig wrote: H > That said, local media reported the mayor pleaded with folks to get onI > what free bus service they could provide or head for the Superdome as a F > last resort. Although conditions were bad in the Superdome they wereE > still far better than drowning as it seems thousands may have done.   E There was no free bus service. Amtrak, Bus and Airport were shutdown. J There may have been an evacuation order, but there was no evacuation plan.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 15:45:48 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 9 Subject: Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15) , Message-ID: <431DF1E4.5335C295@teksavvy.com>  
 AEF wrote:H > changed. At some point you must force people to evauate or put up with! > possibly unjustified criticism.    This is debatable.  D Obviously, for areas where water reaches the roof,  few people wouldE choose to stay. But for areas where waters only reach the first floor J and upper floors provide adequate living, is evacuation really necessary ?  D When we have the ice storm in 1998, police and in some area militaryD went to every home to ensure anyone who had elected to live in theirG home were OK. There were lots of old people who just wrapped themselves G in a blanket and stayed put, not able to cook etc etc, the police would H then "gently" force them to come to a heated shelter.  But for those who@ were doing OK, police had no problems letting them stay at home.  > I had water and phone, so obviously nowhere near as bad as NO.  ; But someone with good camping equipment could live in NO.     @ If the mayor had decided to forcefully evacuate certain specificE neighbourhoods due to high water, I'd have no problems with this. But G instead, the authorities announced that they would now starve remaining ; residents to get them to leave their homes in desperation.    D Obviously, if you consider that all remaining blacks are unemployed,E uneducated, criminals, it becomes easy to justify evacuating the city = with force. Fact is that it is very wrong to think this way.    ? When Darwin was evacuated, the authorities allowed about 10,000 F residents to remain, and they gave them "permits to stay". They helped! with the cleanup and rebuilding.    H If work is beginning to fixup the place, the metropolitan area will needI to be able to cater to those workers. They won't be eating military MREs.   A So, if the city is truly evacuating everyone, does this mean that F electric utility workers are to be evacuated too ? Does this mean thatD sweage treatment plant workers will not be able to live in NO ? DoesD this mean that telephone and water plant workers will be evacuated ?F Will all of those be operated by armyu personally who have no clue how to operate those services ?   H Sorry, but the city needs to cater to all the workers who will be comingC in to fix it up, and that means having a certain base population to E serve the workers. The army can setup portable kitchens/canteens, and G can use local residents as volunteers to run it, freeing the army folks % to do their duty to patroll the city.   H And soon, some of the restaurants will re-open in some of the dry areas. They will need workers.     F Evacuating areas that are truly inhabitable due to high flooding, yes.G But a blind evacuation of the whole metropilitan area NO. Not at a time B when you are going to need lots of people to help cleanup/rebuild.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 20:15:21 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>9 Subject: Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15) < Message-ID: <tNmTe.12807$2n6.2236@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>   JF Mezei wrote:    > AEF wrote: >  > F > Obviously, for areas where water reaches the roof,  few people wouldG > choose to stay. But for areas where waters only reach the first floor L > and upper floors provide adequate living, is evacuation really necessary ?  H Done the toxicology tests have you? Have a lot of mosquitos biting dead G bodies during ice storms in Canada? Fancy living with all that plus no  F piped water, no electricity and no sewage for a month or six? Try not L flushing your home toilet for several months and let us know how you get on.   > B > If the mayor had decided to forcefully evacuate certain specificG > neighbourhoods due to high water, I'd have no problems with this. But I > instead, the authorities announced that they would now starve remaining = > residents to get them to leave their homes in desperation.    G Not true - the authorities did not say this - although some over eager  D rescuers may have said it to try and make people move. Again WWL is D broadcasting repeatedly a statement from the mayor that this is not G true. He has re-emphasised that water and food will be given to people  F who won't move even though he says he really wants them out for their  own safety.    > C > So, if the city is truly evacuating everyone, does this mean that H > electric utility workers are to be evacuated too ? Does this mean thatF > sweage treatment plant workers will not be able to live in NO ? DoesF > this mean that telephone and water plant workers will be evacuated ?H > Will all of those be operated by armyu personally who have no clue how > to operate those services ?    You are just getting silly now.    > H > Evacuating areas that are truly inhabitable due to high flooding, yes.I > But a blind evacuation of the whole metropilitan area NO. Not at a time D > when you are going to need lots of people to help cleanup/rebuild.  G Fine, having gambled with hurricanes let's gamble with a deadly health  D epidemic. The water is *still* not drinkable anywhere in NO without @ boiling yet people are drinking it. In most areas it's not even  drinkable with boiling.   I Yes I am sure there are one or two areas where they can get all services  3 up relatively quickly but these are the exceptions.  --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 16:53:21 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 9 Subject: Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15) , Message-ID: <431E01B4.626E88C3@teksavvy.com>   Alan Greig wrote: H > radio and tv for people to get on them. As to the airport, it remainedB > open Sunday but virtually all flights out were cancelled becauseJ > airlines cancelled their flights into the region therefore there were noE > planes to fly out. Airlines were not willing to fly in their planes . > empty. That's according to the mayor anyway.  6 I had heard the airport had closed at 13:00 on Sunday.  F And since a state of emergency had been declared, the mayor could haveD asked FEME/Homeladn Security to provide flights to help evacuate. InG fact, even after the airport had declared itself operational again, the I mayor still insisted on busing people out fo the city to far away places.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 17:04:58 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 9 Subject: Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15) , Message-ID: <431E046C.2D5CA7C0@teksavvy.com>   Alan Greig wrote: I > Done the toxicology tests have you? Have a lot of mosquitos biting dead H > bodies during ice storms in Canada? Fancy living with all that plus noG > piped water, no electricity and no sewage for a month or six? Try not N > flushing your home toilet for several months and let us know how you get on.  G Actually, a toilet on a second floor above water level would flush. You F take a bucket, take water from the street and dump into the toilet andK it flushes. You don't need running water to flush a toilet, you need water.   H And if you have a home with screened windows, the insect problem may notG be so bad for you. And in such a home, if you are properly equipped, it B may in fact be more comfortable than some cot next to 15,000 other@ people, half of which snore loudly at night and prevent you from
 sleeping.   H > Not true - the authorities did not say this - although some over eagerE > rescuers may have said it to try and make people move. Again WWL is E > broadcasting repeatedly a statement from the mayor that this is not H > true. He has re-emphasised that water and food will be given to peopleG > who won't move even though he says he really wants them out for their 
 > own safety.   H Overnight, CNN was repeating statements from the mayor that he would cutH off food/water to people staying in order to force them to evacuate, andE were showing footage of rescuers telling that to residents during the E day ("we woN,t come back to hand you food").   If you heard the mayor G say otherwise, then it is most probablyt because the mayor realised his " mistake and reversed his decision.    ! > You are just getting silly now.   E No I am not silly. Look up the history/experience of cyclone Tracy in B darwin. There is a lot of documentation available on some official> australian government web sites describing the problems of theD evacuation and how those who remained ended up being better off than@ evacuated people and were needed anyways to bring the city back.  H > Fine, having gambled with hurricanes let's gamble with a deadly healthE > epidemic. The water is *still* not drinkable anywhere in NO without A > boiling yet people are drinking it. In most areas it's not even  > drinkable with boiling.   H Poople drinking water from the street without treatment are as stupid asB those going into an attic when waters were rising and hoping waterA woudln't drown them when stuck in attic with no ability to go up.   H But the army of helpers are supposed to be bringing water, aren't they ?  / If the city were to institute a policy such as:   F "We will make food/water available at the following points through outD the city (followed by long list of resupply points)". If you are notF mobile and cannot reach a point, you will not be resupplied and should therefore evacuate."   Would you be OK with that ?   H When we had the ice storm, the city didn't deliver wood to homes. We had; to go to the town hall to get our daily allotment of wood.    J > Yes I am sure there are one or two areas where they can get all services5 > up relatively quickly but these are the exceptions.   F Until I see a "pig picture" of the metropolitan area showing true, non@ sensationalistic statements from media, I reserve judgement. TheE satellite images only show the flooded areas and cut off when it gets / dry without showing the full metropolitan area.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 21:27:29 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>9 Subject: Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15) 8 Message-ID: <5RnTe.808$fb.458@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>   JF Mezei wrote:    > I > Actually, a toilet on a second floor above water level would flush. You H > take a bucket, take water from the street and dump into the toilet andM > it flushes. You don't need running water to flush a toilet, you need water.   D Where it empties as raw sewage where? There are no treatment plants I running and the pipes are mainly blocked. If water runs down the pipe at  > all it will probably come straight out of a downstairs toilet.  J > And if you have a home with screened windows, the insect problem may notI > be so bad for you. And in such a home, if you are properly equipped, it D > may in fact be more comfortable than some cot next to 15,000 otherB > people, half of which snore loudly at night and prevent you from > sleeping.   E That's the argument residents are using. I have not heard one single  F health official say this is anything but insane logic from people who 0 don't know the true health risks of staying put.   > J > Overnight, CNN was repeating statements from the mayor that he would cutJ > off food/water to people staying in order to force them to evacuate, and  G He said we can't divert rescue efforts to repeatedly redistribute food  H and water to people we've already visited. That sounds reasonable to me.  J > Poople drinking water from the street without treatment are as stupid asD > those going into an attic when waters were rising and hoping waterC > woudln't drown them when stuck in attic with no ability to go up.   E No I mean the tap water is *unsafe* to drink anywhere but people are  	 doing it.    >  > 1 > If the city were to institute a policy such as:  > H > "We will make food/water available at the following points through outF > the city (followed by long list of resupply points)". If you are notH > mobile and cannot reach a point, you will not be resupplied and should > therefore evacuate." >  > Would you be OK with that ?   D They may in fact be forced to compromise and do that. The mayor and H other officials are discussing right now if they will forcibly evacuate , people or what they do about people staying.   > H > Until I see a "pig picture" of the metropolitan area showing true, nonB > sensationalistic statements from media, I reserve judgement. TheG > satellite images only show the flooded areas and cut off when it gets 1 > dry without showing the full metropolitan area.   E Let's hope the death-toll is only around 1,000. FEMA computer models  I apparently say 10,000 dead (source the mayor again) but I don't know how  F much faith you can put in that and the mayor too hopes they are wrong. --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 20:05:02 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 9 Subject: Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15) , Message-ID: <431E2EAB.3A03BEE2@teksavvy.com>   Alan Greig wrote: E > Where it empties as raw sewage where? There are no treatment plants J > running and the pipes are mainly blocked. If water runs down the pipe at@ > all it will probably come straight out of a downstairs toilet.  H Why would sewers be blocked ? I can understand not flowing and treatment* plan not processing/pumping, but blocked ?  H > He said we can't divert rescue efforts to repeatedly redistribute foodJ > and water to people we've already visited. That sounds reasonable to me.  G Yesterday night, it was very specific. Cut off the food/water supply to A force the people to accept evacuation. Seems to have changed this ; morning when they realised it was a really silly statement.   F > No I mean the tap water is *unsafe* to drink anywhere but people are > doing it.   D What percentage of the city has tap water ? I knew some areas had no water pressure at all.  E > They may in fact be forced to compromise and do that. The mayor and I > other officials are discussing right now if they will forcibly evacuate . > people or what they do about people staying.    F The city is here to serve people, not the other way around. Setting upF food/water distribution points for each neighbourhood would be a basicR responsability. And obviously, not in neighbouhoods that have water near rooftops.  F > Let's hope the death-toll is only around 1,000. FEMA computer modelsJ > apparently say 10,000 dead (source the mayor again) but I don't know howH > much faith you can put in that and the mayor too hopes they are wrong.    > BBC interviewed some doctors who said 10,000 is probably quite9 exagerated, and the number may be closed to 2-3 thousand.   C Remember that with the WTC, initially, they had thought it would be D 6000. Wall Street Journal had done a survey of tennants and how many@ employees were missing, and that number was well below 3000, butE media/authorities were still talking about 6000.  Add visitors to the 6 WSJ numbers and you got the final cound of under 3000.  A In new orleans per say, I am not sure if the number of corpses in D flooded areas will exceed 1000.  One then needs to add the number ofE dead at hospitals due to power loss and evacuation, those dead at the F superdome (and astrodome), and those who die in houses not flooded due, to heat stroke, lack of medecine/food/water.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 00:09:45 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>9 Subject: Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15) : Message-ID: <ddqTe.1384$k22.743@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>   JF Mezei wrote:    > Alan Greig wrote:  > E >>Where it empties as raw sewage where? There are no treatment plants J >>running and the pipes are mainly blocked. If water runs down the pipe at@ >>all it will probably come straight out of a downstairs toilet. >  > J > Why would sewers be blocked ? I can understand not flowing and treatment, > plan not processing/pumping, but blocked ?  H Well for one thing it's below sea level and sewage pumps aren't working G to lift it back up again. A local official described the sewage system  - as "destroyed". I have no more detailed info.    --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 03:00:21 GMT % From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com> 9 Subject: Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15) : Message-ID: <9JsTe.521$au2.246@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com>  ; "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message  & news:431E2EAB.3A03BEE2@teksavvy.com... > Alan Greig wrote: F >> Where it empties as raw sewage where? There are no treatment plantsK >> running and the pipes are mainly blocked. If water runs down the pipe at A >> all it will probably come straight out of a downstairs toilet.  > J > Why would sewers be blocked ? I can understand not flowing and treatment, > plan not processing/pumping, but blocked ?  K They aren't blocked, they're full of water.  The sewer pipe leading to the  M second floor will be filled with water to the same level as the water in the  M surrounding house.  When you pour that bucket of water into the second floor  K toilet, the water will equalize through the path of least resistance which  J is probably out of a first floor toilet.  So, you're right, you can flush L the second floor toilets but, they'll basically be flushing into your first  floor.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 21:25:35 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> Subject: Re: Macro code 3 Message-ID: <jPnTe.11914$K85.6014@news.cpqcorp.net>    Dave Froble wrote:   > D > You're talking about the MACRO-32 compiler, or MACRO-64 assembler? > 3 > For MACRO-32, the registers are what you expect,    C Yes on Alpha, but no on I64.  The Macro compiler on I64 remaps the  G VAX/Alpha R0-R31 registers onto other Itanium registers.  Almost every  6 Macro-32 program on the planet contains something like   	MOVL #1,R0   D Since R0 is readonly on I64, we couldn't leave it alone and have it I work.  On I64, the Calling Standard uses Itanium R8 as the return value.  I   The Macro compiler on I64 maps R0/R1 to R8/R9.  The dominoes fall from  E there to shuffled most of the registers around.  And there is a real  D design that we used to pick where each register went... contrary to  casual observation.   B So if you look in the machine code listings or in the instruction C display in the debugger, you'll see the Itanium registers, not the  G source registers.  We did provide symbolic names to the debugger so if  F you do things like EXAMINE R0, we tell the debugger that the variable ( named "R0" lives in Itanium register R8.       --   John Reagan / HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 15:23:35 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 4 Subject: Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64, Message-ID: <431DECB7.C56CBC72@teksavvy.com>   Alan Greig wrote: G > Marcello is more senior now than he was back at the time of the Alpha F > cancellation. He is most certainly following all of this debate. His" > latest blog entry from Friday is  H While it may be obvious to him that the 8086 is rapidly making that IA64F thing irrelevant, I am not sure that he is privy to the actual HP exitH strategy and negotiations with Intel on how/when to get it done.  He mayG be seeing the writing on the wall, but he is saying the same one we are  seeing.   G What is needed for for HP corporate to admit that there is also writing E on paper for a strategy to move to the 8086. And very very few people @ within HP will have seen that writing. The one area which may beH "public" within HP is with regards to advertising/PR, with probably someH edit to not commit IA64 sales beyond a certain year in any advertising. M But such edict could be worded in a generic form without naming IA64 per say.   B eg: "Do not advertise/promise availability of existing products orH product lines in the future as any product line can be cancelled withoutH warning". And such a policy makes sense in a consumer goods company suchH as HP since products are retired very often (look at HP cancelling sales if HP branded Ipods).         ? Also, don't think for one minute that Marcello's blog is purely F personnal. It is a PR exercise, and every post is probably approved by HP's PR people.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 21:56:06 GMT 1 From: Michael Austin <maustin@firstdbasource.com>  Subject: Perl Net::SMTP moduleG Message-ID: <4c2bb13a653adfd200a749fdaf6b1014$1@www.firstdbasource.com>   K Does anyone know the location (if it exists) for the NET::SMTP perl module  ( for VMS 7.3-2/CPQ AXPVMS CSWS_PERL V1.1?   Regards,   Michael Austin   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 23:46:21 +0200 - From: Alex van Denzel <vandenzel@hotmail.com> " Subject: Re: Perl Net::SMTP module7 Message-ID: <431e0f5d$0$21218$dbd45001@news.wanadoo.nl>    Michael Austin wrote: F > Does anyone know the location (if it exists) for the NET::SMTP perl 1 > module for VMS 7.3-2/CPQ AXPVMS CSWS_PERL V1.1?    Doesn't CPAN work on VMS?    -- Alex.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 21:58:48 -0500 6 From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler>" Subject: Re: Perl Net::SMTP moduleD Message-ID: <craigberry-7D4E90.21584806092005@news.isp.giganews.com>  7 In article <431e0f5d$0$21218$dbd45001@news.wanadoo.nl>, /  Alex van Denzel <vandenzel@hotmail.com> wrote:    > Michael Austin wrote: H > > Does anyone know the location (if it exists) for the NET::SMTP perl 3 > > module for VMS 7.3-2/CPQ AXPVMS CSWS_PERL V1.1?  >  > Doesn't CPAN work on VMS?   G CPAN the network archive of Perl modules is available to anyone with a  C web browser regardless of platform.  CPAN the shell for installing  H modules directly from the network does not work on VMS, or did not last  time I checked.     ; Net::SMTP is one of the libnet modules and is available at:   % http://search.cpan.org/~gbarr/libnet/   C It is pure Perl and should install just fine without requiring a C  	 compiler.    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Sep 2005 16:15:38 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) ' Subject: Re: Security - John the Ripper 3 Message-ID: <26g5xdmHIeUC@eisner.encompasserve.org>   Z In article <KhkTe.11854$jT4.10810@news.cpqcorp.net>, hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes: > ) >   Again, what's the real question here?   G    I don't know, but I suspect the fellow is looking for weak passwords     on his system.   H    dilbert5 would pass the VMS password dictionary check.  Most password#    guessers would pop it right out.   B    The system manager could add all such possible words to the VMSF    password dictionary, but a more intelligent algorithm can easily be
    developed.   F    And the system manager can put such an algorithm in place if he/she+    is a programmer, via the loginout hooks.   C    I wouldn't let just any programmer have at the loginout hooks on G    my system, but I might let a competent system manager run a password '    guesser to check for weak passwords.   =    Do you have dilbert5 on your VMS system?  How do you know?    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 22:20:04 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) ' Subject: Re: Security - John the Ripper 3 Message-ID: <oCoTe.11930$wd5.1277@news.cpqcorp.net>   q In article <26g5xdmHIeUC@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: [ :In article <KhkTe.11854$jT4.10810@news.cpqcorp.net>, hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:  :>  * :>   Again, what's the real question here? : H :   I don't know, but I suspect the fellow is looking for weak passwords :   on his system.  C   There are OpenVMS tools for this task, too, FWIW.  (I wrote one a -   while back for myself.  It was quite easy.)   C   Folks running these tools can be legitimate and looking for users E   with weak passwords, or they can be folks that are looking to crack    into a system.  C :   The system manager could add all such possible words to the VMS G :   password dictionary, but a more intelligent algorithm can easily be  :   developed.  B   Yep.  Get rid of passwords, replacing them with "smart" cards orD   other such token-based or challenge-response logins.  If you can'tD   get rid of the password mechanism for some reason, well, then I'd G   tend to look at generated passwords and/or user education.  Passwords E   are a comparatively weak link, given the proclivities of some users D   -- and even some system managers -- to choose, use and re-use poor   or weak passwords.  D :   I wouldn't let just any programmer have at the loginout hooks onH :   my system, but I might let a competent system manager run a password( :   guesser to check for weak passwords.  F   I expect that HP services can provide you with a customized passwordD   filter -- either a generic implementation using one of the variousD   password recommendations, or one customized to meet your own local>   format requirements -- if you wish to formally acquire such.      N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 23:11:01 +01006 From: "Alex Daniels" <AlexNoSpamDaniels@themail.co.uk>' Subject: Re: Security - John the Ripper 6 Message-ID: <431e1408$0$23392$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk>  1 "Hoff Hoffman" <hoff@hp.nospam> wrote in message  - news:oCoTe.11930$wd5.1277@news.cpqcorp.net... D >  There are OpenVMS tools for this task, too, FWIW.  (I wrote one a. >  while back for myself.  It was quite easy.) >   M John the Ripper runs on VMS too, ran it on a Marvel for a while, works quite   well, not tried it on I64 yet.  3 http://jl.gailly.net/security/john-1_6_32-vms-5.zip   ( http://www.teaser.fr/~jlgailly/security/  I Also seen another one that runs on VMS, but don't have the links to hand.    Alex     ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 00:20:32 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) : Subject: Re: tcp connection that looks like a serial port?4 Message-ID: <knqTe.11956$ij5.11460@news.cpqcorp.net>  o In article <rowen-A0C679.16452306092005@gnus01.u.washington.edu>, "Russell E. Owen" <rowen@cesmail.net> writes: J :...Actually it talks via LAT to terminal servers, which then talk to the 8 :devices, but my code thinks it is talking via RS-232...I :Now we have some newer devices that would rather talk tcp/ip instead of  / :RS-232. ... I tried searching for this info...   D   Look up "reverse telnet" in the OpenVMS FAQ, and check the variousB   discussions of moving from LAT to telnet over in the OpenVMS Ask   The Wizard area, as a start.  G   If your code is performing straight data transfers, it probably won't    notice a difference here.   I   If your code calls the LAT $qio calls (as described in the I/O Abuser's H   Reference Manual) to set up, tear down or to otherwise process the LAT*   connection, you have more work involved.  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 00:02:01 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>: Subject: Re: tcp connection that looks like a serial port?9 Message-ID: <Z5qTe.1227$fb.733@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>    Russell E. Owen wrote: > C > We are running VMS 7.2 and Multinet 4.4 (soon to upgrade to 5.1).   G You can do it with UCX/TCPIP so I'd bet you can do it with multinet. A  D quick search of the multinet docs shows it is probably this you are  looking for:  A http://www.process.com/tcpip/mndocs51/USER_GUIDE/AppC.htm#E55E158   
 CREATE-NTY  H Connects the local end of a TELNET connection to an NTY pseudo-terminal F device. This device can be used by other applications such as KERMIT. B This command includes the remote host and port number in the SHOW ) TERMINAL "remote port information" field.    FORMAT  
 CREATE-NTY   EXAMPLE    TELNET>create-nty & TELNET session now connected to _NTY3: %DCL-I-ALLOC, _NTY3: allocated $     K > Pointers, answers and/or opinions on whether it makes more sense to just  8 > rewrite the code to talk tcp would all be appreciated. >  > -- Russell   --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 20:08:59 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> : Subject: Re: tcp connection that looks like a serial port?, Message-ID: <431E2F98.128471E9@teksavvy.com>   "Russell E. Owen" wrote:H > I can rewrite my code to use tcp/ip instead of the serial port driver.I > But I'm wondering if it is necessary. Is there some straightforward way E > to set up the computer so my code thinks it is communicating via an 8 > RS-232 serial port but is actually talking via tcp/ip?   Not sure if it will work. But:   HELP TELNET/CREATE    H This establishes a connection to the node/port and instead of going intoH a TELNET mode, it comes back to DCL and leaves a device create that yourC application can then use. Not sure how well this would work, but it ) might be the most straighforwatf option.    G Make sure you look at all the options, especially the /NVT or /NONVT if ? you want anty of the telnet escape sequence processing etc etc.    ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 01:24:47 +0000 (UTC)3 From: Howard Siegel <not.interested@nospam.invalid> : Subject: Re: tcp connection that looks like a serial port?, Message-ID: <dflfgv$t5a$1@reader1.panix.com>   rowen@cesmail.net writes: G > I have existing code that talks to various devices via serial ports.  I > (Actually it talks via LAT to terminal servers, which then talk to the  8 > devices, but my code thinks it is talking via RS-232.) > J > Now we have some newer devices that would rather talk tcp/ip instead of 	 > RS-232.  > I > I can rewrite my code to use tcp/ip instead of the serial port driver.  J > But I'm wondering if it is necessary. Is there some straightforward way F > to set up the computer so my code thinks it is communicating via an 8 > RS-232 serial port but is actually talking via tcp/ip?   Russell,  D In a previous job, we did something much like what you are trying toF do now... Moving from RS-232 devices connected via terminal servers toG TCP/IP connected devices.  Note that we continued to use the old RS-232 H equipment in parallel with the new TCP/IP based equipment, and like you,D we only wanted to rewrite the equipment interface code while leaving the rest of the code intact.  A What you need to determine is if the new devices will be speaking F the same command/response protocol across the TCP/IP socket connectionD as the old serial devices spoke across the RS-232 connections.  ThatB is, are the commands and responses the same character based formatE or does the new equipment speak a different command/response protocol B (perhaps with non-text based message packets).  If the command andB response protocol is the same, then you have much less work to do.E If they are not, you not only have to rewrite the connection code but E also have to map the old commands to the new command protocol and map < the new response protocol data back to the old data formats.  G In our case, the new equipment command/response protocol was completely D different than the older equipment.  Since all our old code was $QIOH based with ASTs, we created wrapper functions around the ugly $QIO callsG and data structures needed to establish the TCP/IP socket sessions (the G wrappers looked a lot like the Berkley socket library calls except that F everything was in host byte order), and then just used a different setD of AST functions on all of the existing $QIO reads and writes if theB interface type was "network" and the original AST functions if theF interface type was "legacy RS-232".  For most of what we needed to do,H this worked like a charm.  There were a few places where we had to writeH some new programs for the new devices because how you did certain thingsF was just entirely different from how the older equipment was used, but6 there were only a very few instances of that scenario.  G I ended up moving on before the end of the project, but kept in contact D with the company.  I was told that it all worked perfectly and thereC were very few problems converting over to the new equipment and new 	 software.    - h        --    ? hsiegel~at~pobox~dot~com  <*>  Netcom Class of '93, RIP Netcom!    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Sep 2005 13:22:48 -0700 # From: "WhoDat?" <whohe@whoever.com> % Subject: Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX C Message-ID: <1126038168.027073.132160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    norm.raph...@metso.com wrote: @ > "WhoDat?" <whohe@whoever.com> wrote on 09/06/2005 12:55:37 PM: >  > > Tim ffrench-Lynch wrote:L > > > Is VAXen a well enough established plural of VAX to use in a technical > > > document?  > > > 	 > > > Tim  > > H > > VAX is a proper adjective, not a noun. A trademark (or tradestyle orE > > brand-name) describes a particular type of thing. There are a few H > > tradenames so familiar that they "act" as nouns (Kleenex, Xerox,...); > > but it's still actually Kleenex tissues, Xerox copiers.  > >  > I > Well, now, where to begin.  "Xerox" is misused as a verb, not a noun or  > adjective. >   @ A verb implies action. Xerox is not a verb. It is sometimes usedF vernacularly as a verb, as in: "Hey, Bubba! Xerox this NASCAR scheduleG for me, will ya?" A "more proper" way to ask is: "Excuse me Bubba, will @ you please make a copy of this NASCAR schedule for me? The XeroxC machine is in the next room." But I imagine Bubba would look at you E funny if you said that. Well, he'd probably say something like: "Make : the &#*&*& copy yerself, j%&$%ss. Toss me another Bud.";-)  G An adjective describes a noun. "Xerox" is a word created and registered F by The Xerox Corporation. If we use it while discussing "corporations"F we can assume it's a noun. If, in that discussion, we describe a XeroxE product we need to supply the name of the product because we are then = using it as an adjective. If we have established our topic as G "copiers", then we can let the proper adjective imply the subject noun.   > Brand names/trademarks and such words are proper adjectives --F according to both the strict and common rules of the English language.D American English has established variations from "real" English, butD the basic rules of grammar and sentence structure are mostly shared.  G One difference between American and English can be illustrated using my G "proper-Bubba" example: In England, one might add the phrase "There's a > good chap!" after the request. Naturally, "old bean" would theG substituted for "Bubba" and the subject of the copy might be cricket or  football;-))  E > > Place and type identifiers (Concord grapes, French wine) are also K > > proper adjectives. Once the topic of a conversation is established, the > > > noun may be assumed -- we don't need to keep repeating it. > > F > > So, VAX is a type of computer processor. If we've established thatI > > we're talking about computers, just using VAX is acceptable unless we B > > need to distinguish between processor and system architecture. > > J > > It's one VAX, two VAX, three VAX or more. The implied noun and whetherJ > > it's singular or plural should be obvious in context, but if it isn't, > > use it.  > K > This is not common usage.  "Fish" is the plural of "fish."  One fish, two I > fish, three fish.  "VAX" is decidedly not the plural of "VAX."  One VAX I > two VAXes, three VAXes.  More formally, it would be one VAX system, two > > VAX systems, three VAX systems (and never three VAX system). >   G Fish is a noun. One can use it as a verb, too. Fish is not a trademark. C It is a "real" word. It is in common usage and can't be trademarked E except as part of a "made-up" phrase. Trademarks are made-up words or D acronyms and are proper adjectives used to describe a noun. VAX is aF word "made-up" by Digital Equipment Corporation to describe a specific type of computer.   J > This has nothing to do with proper adjectives, and everything to do with1 > English usage - which follows no rule for long.  >   B The English language follows definite rules. The vernacular use ofF English might bend or break a rule, but a rule stands until sufficientA recognized authorities agree upon a change. Trademarks are proper @ adjectives and follow the English language rules for adjectives.   > >  > > VAXen is vernacular slang. > >  > This is indeed so.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Sep 2005 20:04:19 +0100 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)R Subject: Re: [OpenVMS V7.3-2,DWMOTIF V1.3-1] DECW$SERVER in Endless Loop at Prio 6, Message-ID: <431df643$1@news.langstoeger.at>  a In article <SIjTe.11841$TS4.11262@news.cpqcorp.net>, "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes: 7 >The problem is that you don't give enough information.   B What information do you need ? The PCs the process is looping at ?  I >                                                        The server is by B >definition in an endless loop.  What is different about this one?  ' HIB vs CUR for the most important part.   K >Do you have the Open3D LP installed (if so, then there *is* a problem with * >miZeroLine that will cause this symptom).    On the home machine, yes. V4.9B.% On the office system I have to check.   H How to fix it ? Deinstall Open3d ? It is a VMSinstalled (in 2002) kit...  L Does XPDF force DECW$SERVER to trap into Open3D on my 3D30 with a text PDF ?H I had assumed a memory symptom, but at the home system with more memory,@ the PDF could be much smaller to force the loop. Or so it seems.   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 19:24:35 GMT * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>R Subject: Re: [OpenVMS V7.3-2,DWMOTIF V1.3-1] DECW$SERVER in Endless Loop at Prio 64 Message-ID: <T1mTe.11887$G55.10639@news.cpqcorp.net>  I The Open3D LP kit installs a new 2D DDX image (the base kit has a 2D-only K version).  The brain surgeons in MIT X11 land changed the calling interface  for I a routine.  There is a collection of code (MI, MFB, CFB) that is commonly  calledK by HW DDX's - in particular MI.  In a specific case - I think it might be a J particular clipping instance - the TGA2 DDX calls the MI routine to draw aH zero width line - but the interface changed.  So the OLD image that cameJ with the LP kit is calling a MI routine in a new image (the DIX image) and
 poof - a bug.   J If you have Open3D installed, but you are not doing 3D.  I "think" you canH have the effect of getting rid of the TGA2 3D logic by renaming/deletingF the file sys$manager:decw$server_ddx_gy_wmb.exe;*  (note that there is  also a file that is "...wmb_gy".  H But to be doubly sure, get your V7.3-2 distribution and copy anything inG the [SYSLIB] area of the form DECW$*GY*.EXE to your system *as well as*  deleting the file above.          C "Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in message & news:431df643$1@news.langstoeger.at...> > In article <SIjTe.11841$TS4.11262@news.cpqcorp.net>, "FredK"$ <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes:9 > >The problem is that you don't give enough information.  > D > What information do you need ? The PCs the process is looping at ? > K > >                                                        The server is by D > >definition in an endless loop.  What is different about this one? > ) > HIB vs CUR for the most important part.  > H > >Do you have the Open3D LP installed (if so, then there *is* a problem with, > >miZeroLine that will cause this symptom). > " > On the home machine, yes. V4.9B.' > On the office system I have to check.  > J > How to fix it ? Deinstall Open3d ? It is a VMSinstalled (in 2002) kit... > L > Does XPDF force DECW$SERVER to trap into Open3D on my 3D30 with a text PDF ? J > I had assumed a memory symptom, but at the home system with more memory,B > the PDF could be much smaller to force the loop. Or so it seems. >  > --   > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER ' > Network and OpenVMS system specialist  > E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atH > A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Sep 2005 21:20:35 +0100 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)R Subject: Re: [OpenVMS V7.3-2,DWMOTIF V1.3-1] DECW$SERVER in Endless Loop at Prio 6, Message-ID: <431e0823$1@news.langstoeger.at>  a In article <T1mTe.11887$G55.10639@news.cpqcorp.net>, "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes:  >[snip] I >But to be doubly sure, get your V7.3-2 distribution and copy anything in H >the [SYSLIB] area of the form DECW$*GY*.EXE to your system *as well as* >deleting the file above.    Ok, I'll try it sometimes soon. 3 OTOH, is a newer/fixed version of Open3D expected ?    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 20:24:09 GMT * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>R Subject: Re: [OpenVMS V7.3-2,DWMOTIF V1.3-1] DECW$SERVER in Endless Loop at Prio 63 Message-ID: <JVmTe.11902$o85.9071@news.cpqcorp.net>   C "Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in message & news:431e0823$1@news.langstoeger.at...> > In article <T1mTe.11887$G55.10639@news.cpqcorp.net>, "FredK"$ <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes:	 > >[snip] K > >But to be doubly sure, get your V7.3-2 distribution and copy anything in J > >the [SYSLIB] area of the form DECW$*GY*.EXE to your system *as well as* > >deleting the file above.  > ! > Ok, I'll try it sometimes soon. 5 > OTOH, is a newer/fixed version of Open3D expected ?  >   K The Open3D LP is retired.  There will be no future releases.  The TGA2 will H continue to work as a 2D option using the images supplied in the base OS kit.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.499 ************************