1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 07 Sep 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 500       Contents:= Re: DEC/DECUS memorabilia -- ebay categories and search terms = Re: DEC/DECUS memorabilia -- ebay categories and search terms = Re: DEC/DECUS memorabilia -- ebay categories and search terms = Re: DEC/DECUS memorabilia -- ebay categories and search terms = Re: DEC/DECUS memorabilia -- ebay categories and search terms = Re: DEC/DECUS memorabilia -- ebay categories and search terms 0 Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15)0 Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15)0 Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15)0 Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15) Re: Macro code Re: Macro code Re: Macro code Re: Macro code Re: Macro code Re: MC Authorize+ Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64 + Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64 + Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64 + Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64  Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX Re: VAXen as a plural of VAXE [OpenVMS V8.2 and below] Why is LAT not registered for SHOW NETWORK ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 11:25:01 -0400 $ From: Mike Ross <mike@corestore.org>F Subject: Re: DEC/DECUS memorabilia -- ebay categories and search termsB Message-ID: <1126106554.e119db8ecc48bb362e87495ee764b114@teranews>  D On 6 Sep 2005 22:36:16 -0400, kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:  7 >Alan Frisbie  <Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> wrote:  >>7 >>What search strings do *you* use to help you find the ( >>DEC-related stuff you are looking for? > 9 >I don't know, but I'd put "swag" somewhere in the field.  > C >And if you EVER find any of the VM/370 T-shirts that IBM gave out  @ >which said "You Can See It, But It's Not There," I will pay for2 >one.  My mom threw mine out in the mid-seventies.  ; If you can describe it sufficently accurately I'm sure some : enterprising individual will run off some reproductions...   Mike -- http://www.corestore.org 'As I walk along these shores  I am the history within'   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2005 11:38:20 -0400 % From: kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) F Subject: Re: DEC/DECUS memorabilia -- ebay categories and search terms+ Message-ID: <dfn1hc$mq9$1@panix2.panix.com>   & Mike Ross  <mike@corestore.org> wrote:E >On 6 Sep 2005 22:36:16 -0400, kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:  > 8 >>Alan Frisbie  <Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> wrote: >>> 8 >>>What search strings do *you* use to help you find the) >>>DEC-related stuff you are looking for?  >>: >>I don't know, but I'd put "swag" somewhere in the field. >>D >>And if you EVER find any of the VM/370 T-shirts that IBM gave out A >>which said "You Can See It, But It's Not There," I will pay for 3 >>one.  My mom threw mine out in the mid-seventies.  > < >If you can describe it sufficently accurately I'm sure some; >enterprising individual will run off some reproductions...   B I _think_ I might have a photo of me wearing it, standing in frontB of an 11/34 at the Hare Krishna temple data center.  Probably good- enough for a decent artist to reconstruct it.  --scott    --  6 "C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2005 09:29:33 -0700 ; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> F Subject: Re: DEC/DECUS memorabilia -- ebay categories and search termsB Message-ID: <1126110573.818776.67820@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   Alan Frisbie wrote: 8 > I am getting ready to put a bunch of DEC/DECUS-related9 > memorabilia on ebay.   This includes coffee mugs, pens, 8 > buttons, rulers, posters, and other convention "swag".4 > Some is from the estates of friends, some is mine.  3 Look!  We have signed memorabilia on Ebay now.  :-)   = http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4573679202    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2005 12:05:15 -0500 2 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow)F Subject: Re: DEC/DECUS memorabilia -- ebay categories and search terms3 Message-ID: <Xgx1z8s91JhI@eisner.encompasserve.org>    In article <1126110573.818776.67820@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> writes:5 > Look!  We have signed memorabilia on Ebay now.  :-)   K Well, I'm keeping my "I <heart> my VAX" bumper sticker that's signed by KO.    --  O   Bob Kaplow   NAR # 18L   >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<< E Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  I         You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a C         reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about I         repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the 7         struggle for independence. -- Charles A. Beard     ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2005 12:27:49 -0500  From: gleason@encompasserve.org F Subject: Re: DEC/DECUS memorabilia -- ebay categories and search terms3 Message-ID: <zwRdr$NSzyel@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <mOCdnVDIOtgj-IPeRVn-gw@comcast.com>, bugs@pu.net (Mark Hittinger) writes: 8 > Alan Frisbie <Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com> writes:9 >>Assuming that anyone even *wants* this stuff, what ebay ( >>category would you look in to find it? > K > There will be a lot of false positive on "digital equipment" so I tend to D > look for "digital equipment corporation", "dec pdp", or "dec vax". > G  This reminds me how irritating it is that an Ebay search without extra @ qualifiers for "pdp" turns up hundreds of plasma televisions, or? even worse, "rsx" turns up bicycle junk and imported car stuff.    Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR Control-G Consultants  lgleason@houston.rr.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 10:28:56 -0700 0 From: glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>F Subject: Re: DEC/DECUS memorabilia -- ebay categories and search terms0 Message-ID: <readnbNQA9OzvoLeRVn-hw@comcast.com>   Scott Dorsey wrote:    (snip)  D > I _think_ I might have a photo of me wearing it, standing in frontD > of an 11/34 at the Hare Krishna temple data center.  Probably good/ > enough for a decent artist to reconstruct it.   = An IBM operating system, a DEC machine, and a religion all in 
 one sentence.    -- glen    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 10:31:27 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>9 Subject: Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15) ; Message-ID: <3kzTe.2538$k22.2127@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>    John Vottero wrote:    > M > They aren't blocked, they're full of water.  The sewer pipe leading to the  O > second floor will be filled with water to the same level as the water in the  O > surrounding house.  When you pour that bucket of water into the second floor  M > toilet, the water will equalize through the path of least resistance which  L > is probably out of a first floor toilet.  So, you're right, you can flush N > the second floor toilets but, they'll basically be flushing into your first  > floor.  I Adding to them being filled with water, seems many sewers (and water and  F gas pipes for that matter) have actually collapsed due to billions of I tons of water sitting on top of the streets. Not to mention  the massive  G quantity of water which attempted to flow through the sewers initially  A which likely split many of them -  especially if they were aging.      --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2005 07:30:05 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 9 Subject: Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15) 3 Message-ID: <KGGqvXEejZZg@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <431E046C.2D5CA7C0@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:1 > If the city were to institute a policy such as:  > H > "We will make food/water available at the following points through outF > the city (followed by long list of resupply points)". If you are notH > mobile and cannot reach a point, you will not be resupplied and should > therefore evacuate."  C    That's just about what they said, and didn't follow through on.  D    Before Katrina hit the mayor claimed there were 5 days supply of G    food and water at the Superdome and they would have to find a way to +    deal with a longer period if it came up.   E    Then there was no food, no water, no crowd control, and no working H    toilets.  I believe the mayor had assumed that either the storm would4    not be bad, or the feds would arive within hours.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 10:08:57 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 9 Subject: Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15) , Message-ID: <431EF478.F16876E5@teksavvy.com>   Alan Greig wrote: J > Adding to them being filled with water, seems many sewers (and water andG > gas pipes for that matter) have actually collapsed due to billions of / > tons of water sitting on top of the streets.    F If a pipe is filled with water, then no matter how much water is aboveG it on the streets, it won't matter. Send a pipe with opened ends to the ) bottom of the sea and it won't collapse.    D I think that the media are coming out with sensationalistic reports.H Yesterday, CNN was saying the Superdome might have to be destroyed to toA it being a bio hazard.  I guess they never considered bringing in ; industrial cleaners/sweeepers and hosing down the interior.   E And if they are so concerned with the bacteria in the flooded waters, D why not simply sprinkle chlorine tablets/powder on the water as theyE patrol the flooded areas (you can buy those for your home pools).  By G the time the water is dumped back into the lake, the chlorine will have 9 evaporated. But it would keep the cesspool under control.   G The mayor seems to be on a mission to definitely make it look as bad as : possible, and the media are playing into his hand on this.  B In fairness, CNN did show 3 guys who "broke" into New Orleans withH stolen press passes and rescued people from the convention centre beforeH the army got there. They simply drove in, picked up people in their carsG and brought them back. And some of the people were amazed to see street G lights working as soon as they were out of the city.  The comments from G these guy: If we drive to the convention centre in 20 minutes, how come  nobody else could ?     E BTW, one engineer downscaled the "80 days" down to 36 days yesterday.  (to pump all the water out).   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 02:29:33 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com 9 Subject: Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15) - Message-ID: <87zmqq6odu.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   & "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> writes:   > prep@prep.synonet.com wrote:  E >> Outside those areas, you get the infirm and vulnerable and any who F >> want to get out moving early, then scale up if it drops in the pot.  B > And what do you do about those who refuse to leave, as many did?  B Depends on the `worst case' situation. For sub sea parts of NO, atB first check their situation and get on with things. When it all is? about to get totaly hosed, you evict them. In cuffs if need be.   B In a more normal emergency, having preparded locals with suport isA a huge plus. But for it to work, there HAS to be trust both ways.     --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 10:05:07 +0200  From: S <soterroatyahoodotcom> Subject: Re: Macro code & Message-ID: <431e9f31$1@news1.ethz.ch>   John Reagan wrote:D > So if you look in the machine code listings or in the instruction E > display in the debugger, you'll see the Itanium registers, not the  I > source registers.  We did provide symbolic names to the debugger so if  H > you do things like EXAMINE R0, we tell the debugger that the variable * > named "R0" lives in Itanium register R8.  I Just out of curiosity, is there a way to tell this Macro to work in real  H Itasnium mode? I mean, R0 being really R0 and so on. That would be used & for new code, built to run on Itanium.   S    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 15:00:06 +0200  From: S <soterroatyahoodotcom> Subject: Re: Macro code & Message-ID: <431ee454$1@news1.ethz.ch>   Bob Koehler wrote:L >    Why would one want to write Macro-32 (aka VAX Macro) in a Itanium-only   H Oh, I missed the essential point that the trick was *only* for Macro-32.# Nevermind my silly question then :)    S    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2005 07:36:38 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Macro code 3 Message-ID: <OiWzkVg6JuD2@eisner.encompasserve.org>   G In article <431e9f31$1@news1.ethz.ch>, S <soterroatyahoodotcom> writes:  > John Reagan wrote:E >> So if you look in the machine code listings or in the instruction  F >> display in the debugger, you'll see the Itanium registers, not the J >> source registers.  We did provide symbolic names to the debugger so if I >> you do things like EXAMINE R0, we tell the debugger that the variable  + >> named "R0" lives in Itanium register R8.  > K > Just out of curiosity, is there a way to tell this Macro to work in real  J > Itasnium mode? I mean, R0 being really R0 and so on. That would be used ( > for new code, built to run on Itanium.  J    Why would one want to write Macro-32 (aka VAX Macro) in a Itanium-only E    mode?  I can understand writing transportable Macro-32, or Itanium D    Macro (OBTW, what is that called and do we get an assembler?), orD    some other language; but I don't understand why one would want toD    look like they're using VAX instructions to access a non-VAX-like    register set.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 13:03:28 GMT * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> Subject: Re: Macro code 2 Message-ID: <AyBTe.11968$Gz5.994@news.cpqcorp.net>  L "S" <soterroatyahoodotcom> wrote in message news:431e9f31$1@news1.ethz.ch... > John Reagan wrote:E > > So if you look in the machine code listings or in the instruction F > > display in the debugger, you'll see the Itanium registers, not theJ > > source registers.  We did provide symbolic names to the debugger so ifI > > you do things like EXAMINE R0, we tell the debugger that the variable , > > named "R0" lives in Itanium register R8. > J > Just out of curiosity, is there a way to tell this Macro to work in realI > Itasnium mode? I mean, R0 being really R0 and so on. That would be used ( > for new code, built to run on Itanium. >   
 No. And *No*.   H If you are writing new code, *please* use something other than Macro-32.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 14:54:30 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> Subject: Re: Macro code 4 Message-ID: <GaDTe.11975$AB5.11408@news.cpqcorp.net>   Bob Koehler wrote:>    I can understand writing transportable Macro-32, or ItaniumC >    Macro (OBTW, what is that called and do we get an assembler?),   G Yes.  The native Itanium assembler is called IAS.  You can get it open  D source from the Intel web site.  We took that source and made a few G enhancements (like directives to set the module name and ident string;  I generating some OpenVMS-specific ELF extensions, etc.).  That source and  G a prebuilt IAS.EXE is on the OpenSource CDs that came with OpenVMS I64.   I That assembler accepts Itanium instructions, Itanium register names, etc.   G Now to echo Fred's warning, writing Itanium assembly has been shown to  C be very error prone.  Besides worrying about bundling and register  F dependencies (there is a auto-bundle mode to the assembler to make it I easier), you also have to explicitly add unwind directives to your code.  @   If you don't add the directives, you'll find that things like H exception handling can't unwind past your frame or traceback/debug will " do the wrong thing with your code.  C Anybody writing more than 30 lines of Itanium assembly is either a   genius or a fool.    --   John Reagan / HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2005 07:13:50 -0700 + From: "Lee Morgan" <leemorgan@ntlworld.com>  Subject: Re: MC Authorize B Message-ID: <1126102430.298790.91310@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>  ; Just a quick not to than you all for your prompt responses.   / I now have my solution and am a happy customer.   
 Thanks again.        Bob Koehler wrote:s > In article <1125930757.350139.160380@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Lee Morgan" <leemorgan@ntlworld.com> writes: 
 > > Hi all > > ( > > Can somebody please answer my query? > > I > > Is there any way for a captive user in a menu or dcl procedure to run 9 > > mc authorize without actually exiting the menu first?  > F >    If you want to intentionally allow the user to run authorize fromG >    your DCL menu, yes.  But then they may change their own account to ) >    not be captive, so what's the point?  > F >    If you want to run authorize in a controlled, menu driven manner, >    that, too, can be done. > J >    IIRC you have to be carefull about image rundown in a captive accountH >    because it may cause logout.  But generally captive accounts may be: >    the right answer to what I think you're trying to do.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 07:20:04 -06006 From: "Michael D. Ober" <obermd.@.alum.mit.edu.nospam>4 Subject: Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64, Message-ID: <9OBTe.7$OD.787@news.uswest.net>  G The actual report from MS says "Itanium", not IA64.  They are different C beasts.  Sounds like VMS will be on yet another "orphan" processor.   
 Mike Ober.  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:431CE5B4.4754E08A@teksavvy.com... > Alan Greig wrote: I > > Windows Server 2003 for ever. Next time you see Rich Marcello ask him J > > about the future of Itanic. I'd love to know if he can look you in the > > eye when he answers. >  > H > It isn't clear to me that people at Marcello's level would be privy toG > the real strategic decisions taken at the Hurd level.  There may be a F > few HP loyalists who are in the loop, but not sure Marcello would be > considered "in".   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 13:33:47 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>4 Subject: Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64; Message-ID: <%_BTe.2667$k22.1623@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>    Michael D. Ober wrote:  I > The actual report from MS says "Itanium", not IA64.  They are different E > beasts.  Sounds like VMS will be on yet another "orphan" processor.   E Not sure what you mean. Itanium and IA64 are one and the same thing.  J Perhaps you are thinking of X86-64 (AMD64, EM64T, X64 all the same thing).  H But yes I do fear VMS is now tied to an orphan with a bleaker future in . the view of most analysts than Alpha ever had. --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 10:16:54 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 4 Subject: Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64, Message-ID: <431EF655.53B2378A@teksavvy.com>   Alan Greig wrote: I > But yes I do fear VMS is now tied to an orphan with a bleaker future in 0 > the view of most analysts than Alpha ever had.     Which brings me to this:    C The HP apologists seem so intent on defending that IA64 thing. They G always show how the rumours of its retirement are just rumours and that F intel has great plans for it in the future. But even if they are right( and IA64 still has 10 years in its legs:    V **************************   WHAT IS BEST FOR VMS ??????? ****************************  G Is is better for VMS to be on a proprietary low volume platform that is # niched in only high end computing,     OR  D Is it better for VMS to be on a low cost, high volume, scalable from# laptop to datacentre architecture ?       H Ask yourself: which of the two would give VMS the greatest potential for	 growth ?    H Which of the two has the better chance of giving VMS a boost and attract new software ?        G It seems to me that the 8086 gives VMS far better odds of not survival, 
 but SUCCESS.      B On IA64, VMS won't even succeed in converting all of the remaining. installed base, let alone have serious growth.    = Linux has done it, Apple is doing it. VMS should be doing it.    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2005 07:49:34 -0700  From: bob@instantwhip.com 4 Subject: Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64C Message-ID: <1126104574.526461.242230@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   = because someone is paying off HP just like they did Q to keep ; OpenVMS off x86, because the day that happens windoze/linux  becomes toast ...    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 08:48:32 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com% Subject: Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX Q Message-ID: <OF1FA93F51.01A02C19-ON85257075.00459690-85257075.00465CB9@metso.com>   > "WhoDat?" <whohe@whoever.com> wrote on 09/06/2005 04:22:48 PM:   > norm.raph...@metso.com wrote: B > > "WhoDat?" <whohe@whoever.com> wrote on 09/06/2005 12:55:37 PM: > >  > > > Tim ffrench-Lynch wrote:D > > > > Is VAXen a well enough established plural of VAX to use in a	 technical  > > > > document?  > > > >  > > > > Tim  > > > J > > > VAX is a proper adjective, not a noun. A trademark (or tradestyle orG > > > brand-name) describes a particular type of thing. There are a few J > > > tradenames so familiar that they "act" as nouns (Kleenex, Xerox,...)= > > > but it's still actually Kleenex tissues, Xerox copiers.  > > >  > > K > > Well, now, where to begin.  "Xerox" is misused as a verb, not a noun or  > > adjective. > >  > B > A verb implies action. Xerox is not a verb. It is sometimes usedH > vernacularly as a verb, as in: "Hey, Bubba! Xerox this NASCAR scheduleI > for me, will ya?" A "more proper" way to ask is: "Excuse me Bubba, will B > you please make a copy of this NASCAR schedule for me? The XeroxE > machine is in the next room." But I imagine Bubba would look at you G > funny if you said that. Well, he'd probably say something like: "Make < > the &#*&*& copy yerself, j%&$%ss. Toss me another Bud.";-) > I > An adjective describes a noun. "Xerox" is a word created and registered H > by The Xerox Corporation. If we use it while discussing "corporations"H > we can assume it's a noun. If, in that discussion, we describe a XeroxG > product we need to supply the name of the product because we are then ? > using it as an adjective. If we have established our topic as I > "copiers", then we can let the proper adjective imply the subject noun.  > @ > Brand names/trademarks and such words are proper adjectives --H > according to both the strict and common rules of the English language.F > American English has established variations from "real" English, butF > the basic rules of grammar and sentence structure are mostly shared. > I > One difference between American and English can be illustrated using my I > "proper-Bubba" example: In England, one might add the phrase "There's a @ > good chap!" after the request. Naturally, "old bean" would theI > substituted for "Bubba" and the subject of the copy might be cricket or  > football;-)) > G > > > Place and type identifiers (Concord grapes, French wine) are also I > > > proper adjectives. Once the topic of a conversation is established,  the @ > > > noun may be assumed -- we don't need to keep repeating it. > > > H > > > So, VAX is a type of computer processor. If we've established thatK > > > we're talking about computers, just using VAX is acceptable unless we D > > > need to distinguish between processor and system architecture. > > > D > > > It's one VAX, two VAX, three VAX or more. The implied noun and whether E > > > it's singular or plural should be obvious in context, but if it  isn't,
 > > > use it.  > > I > > This is not common usage.  "Fish" is the plural of "fish."  One fish,  two K > > fish, three fish.  "VAX" is decidedly not the plural of "VAX."  One VAX K > > two VAXes, three VAXes.  More formally, it would be one VAX system, two @ > > VAX systems, three VAX systems (and never three VAX system). > >  > I > Fish is a noun. One can use it as a verb, too. Fish is not a trademark. E > It is a "real" word. It is in common usage and can't be trademarked G > except as part of a "made-up" phrase. Trademarks are made-up words or F > acronyms and are proper adjectives used to describe a noun. VAX is aH > word "made-up" by Digital Equipment Corporation to describe a specific > type of computer.  > G > > This has nothing to do with proper adjectives, and everything to do  with3 > > English usage - which follows no rule for long.  > >  > . > The English language follows definite rules.  C "If-and the thing is wildly possible-the charge of writing nonsense F were ever brought against the author of this...." -Lewis Carroll, "The Hunting of the Snark" Preface.  4 I yield the argument, Sir, and run to clear my head.  E >                                               The vernacular use of H > English might bend or break a rule, but a rule stands until sufficientC > recognized authorities agree upon a change. Trademarks are proper B > adjectives and follow the English language rules for adjectives. >  > > >   > > > VAXen is vernacular slang. > > >  > > This is indeed so. >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 08:53:05 -0600- From: "Jim MacKenzie" <jim@dusykbarlow.sk.ca> % Subject: Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX + Message-ID: <431efec7$1@news.accesscomm.ca>    ----- Original Message -----   From: <norm.raphael@metso.com> Newsgroups: comp.os.vms + Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 11:06 AM % Subject: Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX     A > Well, actually, the Latin plural of "appendix" is "appendices." 3 > The English plural of "appendix" is "appendixes."  > E > [Not all words migrate exactly from Latin to English.  For example, B > "agenda" is a Latin plural form, but in English it means a list,B > and so can take an English plural of "agendas," which to a Roman, > would be like "listses," which is absurd.]  M "Appendices" is far more common than "appendixes" in my corner of the world.  I "Appendixes" implies the organ; "appendices" implies the adjunct chapter.   L We use lots of plurals derived from Latin:  data (for datum), formulae (for J formula; granted, "formulas" is more common), memoranda (for memorandum). K Some people do use more anglicized plurals (plurae? :) OK, kidding...) but  G that doesn't make them correct.  Sure, they may become accepted and be  H correct, but they aren't necessarily now.  (Kind of like "doughnut" and I "donut"; the latter is more commonly used in the US, but it really isn't  F correct.  It's used enough, however, that one day it probably will be % considered to be a correct spelling.)   L There are more Latin-derived plurals but I can't think of any without doing  research on the subject.  E Besides, "VAXen" isn't a Latin derivation, it's Saxon, like oxen and  J children, and I haven't heard people talking about oxes and childs lately.  M Is it an uncommon pluralization?  Unquestionably.  Is it incorrect?  That is   highly debatable.    Jim    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 08:46:54 -0600- From: "Jim MacKenzie" <jim@dusykbarlow.sk.ca> % Subject: Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX + Message-ID: <431efd55$1@news.accesscomm.ca>   @ "Bob Kaplow" <kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.mars> wrote in message - news:rkbqH2bPvoBx@eisner.encompasserve.org... - > I thought the plural of VAX was VAXcluster.   C That implies shared processing or storage.  What if you have three  @ unnetworked VAX computers that don't even know the others exist?   Jim    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 08:58:53 -0600- From: "Jim MacKenzie" <jim@dusykbarlow.sk.ca> % Subject: Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX + Message-ID: <431f0028$1@news.accesscomm.ca>   / "WhoDat?" <whohe@whoever.com> wrote in message  = news:1126038168.027073.132160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... D > The English language follows definite rules. The vernacular use ofH > English might bend or break a rule, but a rule stands until sufficientC > recognized authorities agree upon a change. Trademarks are proper B > adjectives and follow the English language rules for adjectives.  M This might be technically true, but I know of no one who says Kleenex facial  J tissues, Xerox photocopying machines, or DeskJet inkjet printers.  I like K Mazdas; I don't need to say "Mazda automobiles".  We use trademarks in the  G plural all the time in English.  If it's not technically correct, it's   acquired de facto correctness.   Jim    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 08:38:33 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> % Subject: Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX ( Message-ID: <opswqoejqczgicya@hyrrokkin>  J On Wed, 7 Sep 2005 08:53:05 -0600, Jim MacKenzie <jim@dusykbarlow.sk.ca>   wrote:  I > "Appendices" is far more common than "appendixes" in my corner of the    > world.K > "Appendixes" implies the organ; "appendices" implies the adjunct chapter.   A Indexes and indices are both correct but have different meanings.    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2005 09:18:47 -0700 # From: "WhoDat?" <whohe@whoever.com> % Subject: Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX C Message-ID: <1126109927.856310.321310@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Jim MacKenzie wrote:0 > "WhoDat?" <whohe@whoever.com> wrote in message? > news:1126038168.027073.132160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... F > > The English language follows definite rules. The vernacular use ofJ > > English might bend or break a rule, but a rule stands until sufficientE > > recognized authorities agree upon a change. Trademarks are proper D > > adjectives and follow the English language rules for adjectives. > N > This might be technically true, but I know of no one who says Kleenex facialK > tissues, Xerox photocopying machines, or DeskJet inkjet printers.  I like L > Mazdas; I don't need to say "Mazda automobiles".  We use trademarks in theH > plural all the time in English.  If it's not technically correct, it's  > acquired de facto correctness. >  > Jim    I agree. However, the OP asked:   H >>Is VAXen a well enough established plural of VAX to use in a technical	 document?   A It wouldn't be technically correct to do so. That doesn't mean he 8 can't, but he should at least be aware of what's proper.  E It isn't my rule. RTF text book. I didn't find HP's legalese on line, > but a quick search found the SAP site which is fairly generic:  > < http://www50.sap.com/company/legal/copyright/properuse.asp >   ##G * A trademark is a proper adjective and must be set apart from the text @ or graphics around it. For example, it is incorrect to say, "sapG software;" rather it should be referred to as an "SAP software." Proper E capitalization, whether initial caps or all caps, can be found in the  trademark list.   > * A trademark must never be used as a verb. For example, it is* incorrect to say "SAPmailing your e-mail."  F * A trademark is not a common noun and may never be used in the pluralG form. An improper example is "SAP Business Workflows." A proper example % is "SAP Business Workflow processes."   E * A trademark should never be used in a possessive form; for example, ? "SAP's R/3 software" and "R/3's graphics" are incorrect. Proper @ examples are "SAP R/3 software" and "the R/3 software graphics." ##   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2005 16:17:46 +0100 6 From: eplan@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)N Subject: [OpenVMS V8.2 and below] Why is LAT not registered for SHOW NETWORK ?, Message-ID: <431f12aa$1@news.langstoeger.at>  C Does anyone know why LAT is a network protocol which is (still) not D registered/configured (via SYS$STARTUP:SYS$NET_SERVICES_LAT.COM) forD $ SHOW NETWORK[/FULL], START/NETWORK, STOP/NETWORK and SET NETWORK ?  6 Do I have to write my own (SYS$NET_SERVICES_LAT.COM) ?= Did someone already hacked it together (and made it public) ? A Did VMS engineering get it sent (and choosed not to include it) ?    Just curious   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.500 ************************