1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 08 Sep 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 501       Contents: Re: /include/nocopy # Re: ARCH_NAME nomenclature question # Re: ARCH_NAME nomenclature question # Re: ARCH_NAME nomenclature question # Re: ARCH_NAME nomenclature question E Re: creating/manipulating user accounts programmatically from Windows E Re: creating/manipulating user accounts programmatically from Windows E Re: creating/manipulating user accounts programmatically from Windows E Re: creating/manipulating user accounts programmatically from Windows E Re: creating/manipulating user accounts programmatically from Windows 0 Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15)+ Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64 + Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64 + Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64 + Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64 + Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64 + Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64 + Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64 + Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64 + Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64 + Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64 + Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64 + Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64 + Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64 + Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64 + Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64 + Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64 + Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64  Re: pws 500au problems Re: pws 500au problems Re: pws 500au problems Re: pws 500au problems Re: pws 500au problems Re: pws 500au problems Re: pws 500au problems Re: pws 500au problems Re: pws 500au problems Re: pws 500au problems Re: pws 500au problems Re: pws 500au problems1 Re: tcp connection that looks like a serial port? 1 Re: tcp connection that looks like a serial port?  Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX Re: VAXen as a plural of VAXL Re: [OpenVMS V8.2 and below] Why is LAT not registered for SHOW NETWORK ? ??  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2005 15:08:37 -0700 $ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: /include/nocopyC Message-ID: <1126130917.041720.275910@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   D I am surprised as you are to see this post reposted. It wasn't I whoG did it. I guess Google or some other news-server goofed somehow. Again,  I did not repost this.  
 AEF wrote:1 > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: = > > In article <d29ucg$cno$1@news01.intel.com>, Ken Fairfield # > > my.full.name@intel.com> writes:  > >  > > Why use /INCLUDE?  > > > > > Because of the context: /NOinclude is the default, and if,E > > as we did, you specify a single member to the /Shadow= qualifier, 3 > > you need /INCLUDE to pick up all valid members.  > > D > > All seem to agree now that /NOCOPY was the essential bit of your	 > > stuff E > > at SLAC.  Is there any reason to use /INCLUDE other than to avoid + > > listing all the members in the command?  > > A > I think /include is useful for situations like this: You have a B > 3-member shadow set. You shut your app, dissolve the shadow set,F > remount it with one less member, and do a tape backup of the missingA > member. Later you add the 3rd member back to the shadow set. By G > specifying the 1st disk with /include in your startup, if you need to G > boot, you'll return to the same config of disks you had when you shut E > down. This is very much like how a system disk shadow set works. In - > both cases you must pick the "master" disk.  > F > I noticed there is a "new" qualifier that may address the problem of6 > the node with the less current disk coming up first:H > /policy=require_members. With this qualifier, no disk is mounted until! > all needed disks are available.  > G > DEC/Compaq/HP have added a lot of new qualfiers for shadowing to suit  > different needs.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 20:28:04 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>, Subject: Re: ARCH_NAME nomenclature question+ Message-ID: <431F93A4.C3D1ACFC@comcast.net>    FredK wrote: > A > "David J Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message ' > news:431C5FF8.7A9B4CE1@comcast.net...  > H > > ...though exactly what string will be returned on OpenVMS for x86-64 > > remains to be seen.  > >  > H > The only one possible - "VAX" - since you will be running an emulator.   ...unless...   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 20:38:30 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>, Subject: Re: ARCH_NAME nomenclature question+ Message-ID: <431F9616.474EF693@comcast.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > David J Dachtera wrote: ; > > Well, dashes are legal - if confusing - in filespec.'s.  > 2 > But not for symbols. (and not sure for logicals) > H > > ...though exactly what string will be returned on OpenVMS for x86-64 > > remains to be seen.  >   > I vote for "8086"  :-) :-) :-)  D Since that's an 8/16 bit processor, I'd vote for "X8664" or "I64" to represent the 32/64 bit CPUs.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 20:36:47 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>, Subject: Re: ARCH_NAME nomenclature question+ Message-ID: <431F95AF.F6AAFBDE@comcast.net>    FredK wrote: > E > "Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in message ( > news:431da07d$1@news.langstoeger.at... >  > > 7 > > You would have been a wise, if you had been silent.  > >  > M > The point is, that a few here - JF in particular - seem to have it in their L > mind that there are a couple inevitables: Intel will stop making Itaniums,  F At some point, stock holders may demand that Intel stop stuffing money down that rathole.   > VMS will be ported to x86-64,   F ...unless VMS's biggest customers can afford to tell HP & Co. to stuff" VMS, this indeed seems inevitable.  * > and porting to x86-64 will substantially > change VMS's fortunes.  D Anyone who doubts that should seriously consider a new line of work.C Front-line suggestions would be short order cook, refuse collector, B petroleum mogul, etc. I hear that "The Bang Bros." are looking for% cinematography students as interns...   , > None of which are supported by any facts.   F Yeah, I guess not. After all, the x86 hard/software business is only aG few measly hundred billion dollars world-wide. Couldn't possibly be any  room for VMS in that tier.   > If such spectulation is leftC > to stand unchallenged, then it sends the absolute wrong message.    F That's true. Can't have the world thinking the business folks who holdG VMS's reins have even a modicum of business acumen. That would position F them as a challenge to Micro$lop's dominance, and no sane person would! ever want to be in that position.    > DoF > *I* make the decisions about the long term future of VMS?  No, but IB > am in a position to know a bit more about its prospects than JF.   No comment (oddly enough).  H > The odds are substantially higher that the only way VMS will run on an8 > x86-64 is via emulation, than it will ever run native.   ...unless...   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 02:30:58 GMT * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>, Subject: Re: ARCH_NAME nomenclature question3 Message-ID: <CnNTe.12091$Ja6.4353@news.cpqcorp.net>    Truly incoherent.   ? "David J Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message % news:431F95AF.F6AAFBDE@comcast.net...  > FredK wrote: > > G > > "Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER" <peter@langstoeger.at> wrote in message * > > news:431da07d$1@news.langstoeger.at... > >  > > > 9 > > > You would have been a wise, if you had been silent.  > > >  > > I > > The point is, that a few here - JF in particular - seem to have it in  their D > > mind that there are a couple inevitables: Intel will stop making	 Itaniums,  > H > At some point, stock holders may demand that Intel stop stuffing money > down that rathole. > ! > > VMS will be ported to x86-64,  > H > ...unless VMS's biggest customers can afford to tell HP & Co. to stuff$ > VMS, this indeed seems inevitable. > , > > and porting to x86-64 will substantially > > change VMS's fortunes. > F > Anyone who doubts that should seriously consider a new line of work.E > Front-line suggestions would be short order cook, refuse collector, D > petroleum mogul, etc. I hear that "The Bang Bros." are looking for' > cinematography students as interns...  > - > > None of which are supported by any facts.  > H > Yeah, I guess not. After all, the x86 hard/software business is only aI > few measly hundred billion dollars world-wide. Couldn't possibly be any  > room for VMS in that tier. >   > > If such spectulation is leftD > > to stand unchallenged, then it sends the absolute wrong message. > H > That's true. Can't have the world thinking the business folks who holdI > VMS's reins have even a modicum of business acumen. That would position H > them as a challenge to Micro$lop's dominance, and no sane person would# > ever want to be in that position.  >  > > DoH > > *I* make the decisions about the long term future of VMS?  No, but ID > > am in a position to know a bit more about its prospects than JF. >  > No comment (oddly enough). > J > > The odds are substantially higher that the only way VMS will run on an: > > x86-64 is via emulation, than it will ever run native. >  > ...unless... >  > --   > David J Dachtera > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ > + > Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: $ > http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ > * > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/  > $ > Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/  >  > Coming soon:( > Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 15:38:15 -0400* From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca>N Subject: Re: creating/manipulating user accounts programmatically from Windows0 Message-ID: <11hugdle06g463f@corp.supernews.com>  . <mabbuttg@yahoo.ca> a crit dans le message de< news:1126110538.645453.64750@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...; > Hi, I'm new to OpenVMS, and I have a couple of questions.  > I > I'm looking at creating a basic program/script on Win32 to automate our B > user creation process (we're running OpenVMS 7.3_1 AXP), and I'mA > looking for the best way to implement that.  I have the OpenVMS C > Management Station, but I don't see anything there relating to an ; > exposed API/COM object I can manipulate programmatically.  > H > I've done some searching and have come across mention of a server-sideH > "COM for OpenVMS", but I'm not keen on installing anything more on our	 > server.  > G > So, other than scripting a telnet session, is there a COM/OLE/ActiveX I > control out there that can help me automate this?  I've searched around ) > and I'm not seeing anything applicable.  >  > Thanks in advance, > Glenn   	 Hmmmmm...   H We actually do the reverse. We use VMS to create our Windows domain user	 accounts. L The Pathworks (advanced server for OpenVMS) command line interface (and DCL) is very useful at that!   L You could certainly write something that would trigger a process on VMS, andI that process would in turn issue some calls to $SETUAI, but that can only $ modify UAF records as far as I know.3 I don't think you can create a new user from there.   I Maybe you can take a look at the new ACME routines, but again that's only E for validation of a username/password and nothing else I think. But I * haven't read everything on that subject...   --   Syltrem   H http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site, en franais)     >    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 20:10:07 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) N Subject: Re: creating/manipulating user accounts programmatically from Windows3 Message-ID: <zOHTe.12020$FS5.1927@news.cpqcorp.net>   \ In article <1126110538.645453.64750@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, mabbuttg@yahoo.ca writes:  .   Some ideas, and some items to think about...  H :I'm looking at creating a basic program/script on Win32 to automate ourA :user creation process (we're running OpenVMS 7.3_1 AXP), and I'm @ :looking for the best way to implement that.  I have the OpenVMSB :Management Station, but I don't see anything there relating to an: :exposed API/COM object I can manipulate programmatically.  @   OMS would be the obvious suggestion.  Other tools here include@   the HP System Insight Manager (HP SIM), though AFAIK that tool>   isn't set up to create accounts -- OpenView and SIM are the >   direction that all OpenVMS management is heading, obviously.  G :I've done some searching and have come across mention of a server-side G :"COM for OpenVMS", but I'm not keen on installing anything more on our  :server. : F :So, other than scripting a telnet session, is there a COM/OLE/ActiveXH :control out there that can help me automate this?  I've searched around( :and I'm not seeing anything applicable.  A   This is basic network communications FWIW, and there's nothing  A   really to the basic task -- COM/OLE/ActiveX looks to be hunting B   fleas with anvils.  What gets interesting here has nothing to doD   with the direct operation -- composing and sending up an AUTHORIZEC   command to a DCL server process (Ask The Wizard topic (159) would C   be similar, FWIW) would take a couple-dozen lines of C and socket B   calls on the client box, for instance.  What is interesting here@   is securing this link; keeping the riff-raff from spoofing the@   source and sending up the necessary commands to add a username   for nefarious purposes.   D   Me?  I'd tend to dispense with the whole operation and look to useA   a CGI script running in the context of a web server.  Why spend A   your time coding a client application when you already have one @   that works nicely -- your web browser.  With certificates, youE   could concievably encrypt your link to the CGI, too.  (You do need  ,   to protect the CGI regardless, of course.)  ?   I'll assume you've seen the SYS$EXAMPLES:*USER*.COM examples.   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 15:54:42 -0400* From: "Syltrem" <syltremzulu@videotron.ca>N Subject: Re: creating/manipulating user accounts programmatically from Windows0 Message-ID: <11huhcgdntlp28f@corp.supernews.com>  : "Hoff Hoffman" <hoff@hp.nospam> a crit dans le message de- news:zOHTe.12020$FS5.1927@news.cpqcorp.net... D > In article <1126110538.645453.64750@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, mabbuttg@yahoo.ca writes:  >  > F >   Me?  I'd tend to dispense with the whole operation and look to useC >   a CGI script running in the context of a web server.  Why spend C >   your time coding a client application when you already have one B >   that works nicely -- your web browser.  With certificates, youF >   could concievably encrypt your link to the CGI, too.  (You do need. >   to protect the CGI regardless, of course.) >     ! Of course.. I forgot that option. F That`s actually what I use to change user's passwords on the myriad of% servers that need to be synchronized. 8 Again, that uses some DCL and the Pathworks command line   --   Syltrem   H http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site, en franais)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 20:46:56 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>N Subject: Re: creating/manipulating user accounts programmatically from Windows+ Message-ID: <431F9810.89E28A31@comcast.net>    mabbuttg@yahoo.ca wrote: > ; > Hi, I'm new to OpenVMS, and I have a couple of questions.  > I > I'm looking at creating a basic program/script on Win32 to automate our B > user creation process (we're running OpenVMS 7.3_1 AXP), and I'mA > looking for the best way to implement that.  I have the OpenVMS C > Management Station, but I don't see anything there relating to an ; > exposed API/COM object I can manipulate programmatically.  > H > I've done some searching and have come across mention of a server-sideH > "COM for OpenVMS", but I'm not keen on installing anything more on our	 > server.  > G > So, other than scripting a telnet session, is there a COM/OLE/ActiveX I > control out there that can help me automate this?  I've searched around ) > and I'm not seeing anything applicable.   F GUIs are notoriously unscriptable, unless the vendor has provided thatH in the program (uncommon, but it does happen; examples would include RCL9 and RBS in WRQ Reflection terminal programs, and others).   C I would think you'd want to do that within VMS itself. You could, I G suppose use NOTEPAD to develop your DCL procedure (.COM file), then FTP ( it up your VMS machine and run it there.  ? In general, using a "toy" like Windows to automate a commercial H computing platform like VMS is rather frowned upon. Windows has too manyB issues with stability and security for many "regulation compliant" environments, also.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 21:45:39 -0400 - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> N Subject: Re: creating/manipulating user accounts programmatically from WindowsF Message-ID: <MfydnZ2dnZ2t9TWInZ2dnVoKgt6dnZ2dRVn-0J2dnZ0@adelphia.com>   Syltrem wrote:0 > <mabbuttg@yahoo.ca> a crit dans le message de> > news:1126110538.645453.64750@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > ; >>Hi, I'm new to OpenVMS, and I have a couple of questions.  >>I >>I'm looking at creating a basic program/script on Win32 to automate our B >>user creation process (we're running OpenVMS 7.3_1 AXP), and I'm <snip>   > Hmmmmm...  > J > We actually do the reverse. We use VMS to create our Windows domain user > accounts. N > The Pathworks (advanced server for OpenVMS) command line interface (and DCL) > is very useful at that!   H I used to use DCL scripts and Advance Server to read off the members of I the NT group "VMS_USER" to kick off a script to create the a VMS user to  I match if they did not exist.  Such users would get an identifier granted  ; to them to indicate how the user was automatically created.   I I also had DCL procedures that would check existing users with that same  F identifier and disuser accounts that the NT account no longer had the  VMS_USER identifier.   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 17:37:03 -0400- From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> 9 Subject: Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15) 7 Message-ID: <8660a3a1050907143746c8058b@mail.gmail.com>   ( ------=_Part_15634_5881930.1126129023435, Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  Content-Disposition: inline   + On 7 Sep 2005 07:30:05 -0500, Bob Koehler < / koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote:  >=209 > In article <431E046C.2D5CA7C0@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei < ' > jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: 3 > > If the city were to institute a policy such as:  > > J > > "We will make food/water available at the following points through outH > > the city (followed by long list of resupply points)". If you are notJ > > mobile and cannot reach a point, you will not be resupplied and should > > therefore evacuate." >=20A > That's just about what they said, and didn't follow through on. B > Before Katrina hit the mayor claimed there were 5 days supply ofF > food and water at the Superdome and they would have to find a way to* > deal with a longer period if it came up. >=20D > Then there was no food, no water, no crowd control, and no workingF > toilets. I believe the mayor had assumed that either the storm would3 > not be bad, or the feds would arive within hours.  >=20 >=20I The federal government's response was not flawless; operations of this=20  magnitude never are.K The 9/11 Commission recommended folding FEMA into Homeland Security and it=  =20 	 was done. 5 Bigger bureaucracies are almost never more efficient.   G There's no debating the fact that neither the Mayor nor the Governor=20 J implemented the Southeastern Louisiana or New Orleans disaster plans, the= =20 K writing of which (for which they paid half a million dollars) was done by,=  =20 L among others, James Lee Witt (Clinton's FEMA director who the Governor's no= w=20< put in charge of the Louisiana disaster recovery effort.)=20  L These disaster plans (and they're available online for all to read if anyon= e=20I doesn't believe me) state in no uncertain terms that the state or city=20 G (depending on which plan) is responsibile for providing food, water,=20 L transport, etc for the first 72 to 96 hours because that just happens to be= =20 K the amount time that it takes for federal assistance to arrive en masse.=20   J And the Feds can't just step in without being asked to do so. If Bush had= =20 J done that, well, the Left would finally have had that impeachable offense= =20  they've been fantasizing about.   L One last point: The Governor has refused repeated requests to federalize th= e=20K Louisiana National Guard so their command and control structure would be=20 ; integrated with all the other military forces in place now.   G That's all I'm going to say about that, except if you haven't made a=20  donation yet, please do so.   L There are over a million people affected in an area the size of Minnesota o= r=20 the UK.    WWWebb   --=20 F NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related=20 correspondence. L All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for service= s=202 pursuant to the terms and conditions located at=20# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/   ( ------=_Part_15634_5881930.1126129023435+ Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  Content-Disposition: inline   L <br><br><div><span class=3D"gmail_quote">On 7 Sep 2005 07:30:05 -0500, <b c=L lass=3D"gmail_sendername">Bob Koehler</b> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:koehler@eis=L ner.nospam.encompasserve.org">koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org</a>&g=	 t; wrote: L </span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rg=L b(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">In article=L  &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:431E046C.2D5CA7C0@teksavvy.com">431E046C.2D5CA7C0@te=
 ksavvy.comL </a>&gt;, JF Mezei &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com">jfme=L zei.spamnot@teksavvy.com</a>&gt; writes:<br>&gt; If the city were to instit=L ute a policy such as:<br>&gt;<br>&gt; &quot;We will make food/water availab=& le at the following points through outL <br>&gt; the city (followed by long list of resupply points)&quot;. If you =L are not<br>&gt; mobile and cannot reach a point, you will not be resupplied=L  and should<br>&gt; therefore evacuate.&quot;<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp; That's ju=6 st about what they said, and didn't follow through on.L <br>&nbsp;&nbsp; Before Katrina hit the mayor claimed there were 5 days sup=L ply of<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; food and water at the Superdome and they would have =L to find a way to<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; deal with a longer period if it came up.<b=L r><br>&nbsp;&nbsp; Then there was no food, no water, no crowd control, and =
 no workingL <br>&nbsp;&nbsp; toilets.&nbsp;&nbsp;I believe the mayor had assumed that e=L ither the storm would<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; not be bad, or the feds would arive w=+ ithin hours.<br><br></blockquote></div><br> L The federal government's response was not flawless; operations of this magn= itude never are.<br>L The 9/11 Commission recommended folding FEMA into Homeland Security and it =
 was done.<br> 9 Bigger bureaucracies are almost never more efficient.<br> ? <br>There's no debating the fact that neither the Mayor nor the G Governor implemented the Southeastern Louisiana or New Orleans disaster ? plans, the writing of which (for which they paid half a million B dollars) was done by, among others, James Lee Witt (Clinton's FEMAD director who the Governor's&nbsp; now put in charge of the Louisiana+ disaster recovery effort.)&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>  <br>E These disaster plans (and they're available online for all to read if E anyone doesn't believe me) state in no uncertain terms that the state E or city (depending on which plan) is responsibile for&nbsp; providing E food, water, transport, etc for the first 72 to 96 hours because that G just happens to be the amount time that it takes for federal assistance $ to arrive en masse.&nbsp;&nbsp; <br> <br>F And the Feds can't just step in without being asked to do so.&nbsp; If> Bush had done that, well, the Left would finally have had that7 impeachable offense they've been fantasizing about.<br>  <br>D One last point: &nbsp; The Governor has refused repeated requests toD federalize the Louisiana National Guard so their command and controlC structure would be integrated with all the other military forces in   place now.<br clear=3D"all"><br>L That's all I'm going to say about that, except if you haven't made a donati= on yet, please do so.<br>  <br>L There are over a million people affected in an area the size of Minnesota o=
 r the UK.<br>  <br>
 WWWebb<br>L <br>-- <br>NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-rela= ted correspondence.<br>All? unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located atL <a href=3D"http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/">http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e= /webbww/</a>  * ------=_Part_15634_5881930.1126129023435--   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 17:47:07 GMT   From: CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net>4 Subject: Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64* Message-ID: <431F279B.5020606@prodigy.net>   bob@instantwhip.com wrote:  ? > because someone is paying off HP just like they did Q to keep = > OpenVMS off x86, because the day that happens windoze/linux  > becomes toast ...  > E Even if VMS is better technology, and current at the time (neither is 3 a given), that doesn't guarantee marketing success.    --  D The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt toC minimize spam.  Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 18:36:27 GMT * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>4 Subject: Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA643 Message-ID: <LqGTe.12008$GM5.6430@news.cpqcorp.net>    How do I put this...  K If you think that porting VMS to x86-64 (x86-32 is a non-starter) will have K any material impact on the success or failure of VMS - I disagree strongly. H It doesn't even make my top ten wishlist.  In fact, it would be almost aI pure negative - since it would tube current sales, and return us to a new - 2-3 year limbo while we do it all over again.   ? Nor would being on a x86-64 mean low-end VMS, or VMS notebooks. D This is worse than wishful thinking, it is ignoring the past and theK current reality.  Being on a platform *with* a low-end possibility, doesn't 9 mean that it will be offered, supported or priced for it.       : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:431EF655.53B2378A@teksavvy.com... > Alan Greig wrote: K > > But yes I do fear VMS is now tied to an orphan with a bleaker future in 2 > > the view of most analysts than Alpha ever had. >  >  > Which brings me to this: >  > E > The HP apologists seem so intent on defending that IA64 thing. They I > always show how the rumours of its retirement are just rumours and that H > intel has great plans for it in the future. But even if they are right* > and IA64 still has 10 years in its legs: >  > ; > **************************   WHAT IS BEST FOR VMS ???????  **************************** > I > Is is better for VMS to be on a proprietary low volume platform that is $ > niched in only high end computing, >  > OR > F > Is it better for VMS to be on a low cost, high volume, scalable from% > laptop to datacentre architecture ?  >  >  > J > Ask yourself: which of the two would give VMS the greatest potential for
 > growth ? > J > Which of the two has the better chance of giving VMS a boost and attract > new software ? >  >  > I > It seems to me that the 8086 gives VMS far better odds of not survival,  > but SUCCESS. >  > D > On IA64, VMS won't even succeed in converting all of the remaining0 > installed base, let alone have serious growth. >  > ? > Linux has done it, Apple is doing it. VMS should be doing it.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 11:10:49 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 4 Subject: Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64( Message-ID: <opswqvgbvjzgicya@hyrrokkin>  K On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 18:36:27 GMT, FredK <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> wrote:    > How do I put this... > J > If you think that porting VMS to x86-64 (x86-32 is a non-starter) will   > haveE > any material impact on the success or failure of VMS - I disagree    > strongly. J > It doesn't even make my top ten wishlist.  In fact, it would be almost aK > pure negative - since it would tube current sales, and return us to a new / > 2-3 year limbo while we do it all over again.   H I would agree with that under the current pricing model, but if you takeI the attitude that your _real_ product is VMS, then at the extreme end you J could give away the hardware and charge for VMS, Apps and Support, without a deleterious impact on revenue    > A > Nor would being on a x86-64 mean low-end VMS, or VMS notebooks. F > This is worse than wishful thinking, it is ignoring the past and theG > current reality.  Being on a platform *with* a low-end possibility,   	 > doesn't ; > mean that it will be offered, supported or priced for it.   J Also concur,  it is not realistic to imagine VMS competing on the desktop,J the amount of software required to be competitive is enormous, as would be8 the cost.  Better is facilitated coexistance and support >  > < > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message( > news:431EF655.53B2378A@teksavvy.com... >> Alan Greig wrote:K >> > But yes I do fear VMS is now tied to an orphan with a bleaker future    >> in 3 >> > the view of most analysts than Alpha ever had.  >> >> >> Which brings me to this:  >> >>F >> The HP apologists seem so intent on defending that IA64 thing. TheyJ >> always show how the rumours of its retirement are just rumours and thatI >> intel has great plans for it in the future. But even if they are right + >> and IA64 still has 10 years in its legs:  >> >>< >> **************************   WHAT IS BEST FOR VMS ??????? > **************************** >>J >> Is is better for VMS to be on a proprietary low volume platform that is% >> niched in only high end computing,  >> >> OR  >>G >> Is it better for VMS to be on a low cost, high volume, scalable from & >> laptop to datacentre architecture ? >> >> >>K >> Ask yourself: which of the two would give VMS the greatest potential for  >> growth ?  >>K >> Which of the two has the better chance of giving VMS a boost and attract  >> new software ?  >> >> >>J >> It seems to me that the 8086 gives VMS far better odds of not survival, >> but SUCCESS.  >> >>E >> On IA64, VMS won't even succeed in converting all of the remaining 1 >> installed base, let alone have serious growth.  >> >>@ >> Linux has done it, Apple is doing it. VMS should be doing it. >  >    ------------------------------   Date: 07 Sep 2005 18:41:00 GMT$ From: "Doc." <Doc@openvms-rocks.com>4 Subject: Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA647 Message-ID: <Xns96CAD267D3AABDCovmsrox@212.100.160.126>   - "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> wrote in , news:LqGTe.12008$GM5.6430@news.cpqcorp.net:    > How do I put this...  I Well, if you prefix it with, "JF you need to be more realistic" then you   can say whatever you want. :-)     Doc. --   .SIG lost in post.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 18:57:31 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>4 Subject: Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64: Message-ID: <vKGTe.4149$fb.2368@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>   FredK wrote:   > How do I put this... > M > If you think that porting VMS to x86-64 (x86-32 is a non-starter) will have M > any material impact on the success or failure of VMS - I disagree strongly. J > It doesn't even make my top ten wishlist.  In fact, it would be almost aK > pure negative - since it would tube current sales, and return us to a new / > 2-3 year limbo while we do it all over again.   H In the *hypothetical* situation of Intel announcing that Itanium was to F be "retired" ("We have trail-blazed blah blah but now developments in H blah blah allow us to blah blah superior customer deployment experience H multiple orgasm blah blah with X86-64"), would your answer still be the  same?   A > Nor would being on a x86-64 mean low-end VMS, or VMS notebooks. F > This is worse than wishful thinking, it is ignoring the past and theM > current reality.  Being on a platform *with* a low-end possibility, doesn't ; > mean that it will be offered, supported or priced for it.   F Once upon a time VMS was pretty much there. But I agree it will never H get there again on IA64. In my *optimistic* view, if you were on X86-64 F a lot of the Linux crowd would pile in with hobby licenses, like what F they saw but despair at the lack of apps, then bring just about every G app with a Linux port to VMS (or just bring it back up to date) over a  F period of a few years. No you don't support that but it allows VMS to E live on the desktop. Getting it back in view again is the first step.    --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 19:31:05 GMT * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>4 Subject: Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA643 Message-ID: <ZdHTe.12015$sT5.5734@news.cpqcorp.net>   . "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message" news:opswqvgbvjzgicya@hyrrokkin...F > On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 18:36:27 GMT, FredK <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> wrote: >  > J > I would agree with that under the current pricing model, but if you takeK > the attitude that your _real_ product is VMS, then at the extreme end you L > could give away the hardware and charge for VMS, Apps and Support, without! > a deleterious impact on revenue  >   F It's a double edged sword.  Consider the fact that a rx1620 is cheaperI than the *cluster* license for VMS on it.  Now let's imagine that somehow I there is an *identical* x86-64 system built - and let's say it's half the H price.  Do we inflate the already expensive VMS licenses for it to coverK the delta in price?  Probably not, so we eat the loss in HW revenue margin. F This is only a *good* thing if the lowered HW cost leads directly to a3 very meaningful increase in sales of those systems.   F The Tadpole was a product disaster.  In the grand scheme of things, itI wasn't all *that* expensive - considering it was *the* only true portable D VMS system.  There was a market for it, and people did buy them, andE they are highly coveted by those who have them (I have one here in my I desk) - but it was too expensive and too narrow and too limited an appeal H for the average customer or hobbyist to buy.  Tadpole didn't sell enoughK of them to justify doing it again.  And *VMS* didn't sell enough of them to C justify doing qual and support for a new one - EVEN if one was made 
 available.  H If there was an Itanium notebook, I can name the engineers that would doK the work as a midnight project (literally middle of the night) - because it H would be cool.  But I'd be hard pressed to believe that management wouldG be hot to trot about it from a business standpoint (perhaps a marketing J standpoint they might do it anyway - knowing that the engineers would hackB support into the OS anyway) - because we have historical knowledgeI that we can't can't price VMS low enough and get enough volume on it - to  make it worthwhile.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 19:19:01 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>4 Subject: Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64: Message-ID: <F2HTe.3569$k22.790@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>   FredK wrote:  J > If there was an Itanium notebook, I can name the engineers that would doM > the work as a midnight project (literally middle of the night) - because it J > would be cool.  But I'd be hard pressed to believe that management wouldI > be hot to trot about it from a business standpoint (perhaps a marketing L > standpoint they might do it anyway - knowing that the engineers would hackD > support into the OS anyway) - because we have historical knowledgeK > that we can't can't price VMS low enough and get enough volume on it - to  > make it worthwhile.   H While I agree with most of what you say I must point out that Sun seems ? to think that giving away the operating system for nothing ("A  I $500-million investment produced the most advanced operating system ever  D builtnow offered FREE to you. Get it today.") will still make them E money. I know there are several responses to that but time will tell.    --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 12:43:42 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 4 Subject: Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64( Message-ID: <opswqzq4o1zgicya@hyrrokkin>  K On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 19:31:05 GMT, FredK <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> wrote:   K >> I would agree with that under the current pricing model, but if you take J >> the attitude that your _real_ product is VMS, then at the extreme end   >> youG >> could give away the hardware and charge for VMS, Apps and Support,   
 >> without" >> a deleterious impact on revenue >>H > It's a double edged sword.  Consider the fact that a rx1620 is cheaperK > than the *cluster* license for VMS on it.  Now let's imagine that somehow K > there is an *identical* x86-64 system built - and let's say it's half the J > price.  Do we inflate the already expensive VMS licenses for it to coverG > the delta in price?  Probably not, so we eat the loss in HW revenue   	 > margin. H > This is only a *good* thing if the lowered HW cost leads directly to a5 > very meaningful increase in sales of those systems.   H What I was suggesting is that there is a business model, which I believeF would be viable, in which you get out of the hardware business, like  
 Microsoft.I It is no secret that Microsoft has ambitions to move into the corporate    serverJ market, and they would not be burdened  with the sort of overhead that a   hardwareK manufacturer has.  Notwithstanding the lack of respect this group has for    Windows,K I would caution that it is foolhardy to underestimate your adversary.  So    how J would you then compete?  VMS currently enjoys a technical advantage over   windows.I How long will that last.  At the same time VMS is at a disadvantage for    marketJ acceptance in the percetion of most Fortune CIO's. Microsoft will either   force L you out of the hardware business, or out of business.  Even with X86 based   systems J HP has a hard time competing with the likes of Dell, particularly on the   desktop 4 and increasingly more so on similarly based servers.  C VMS license expensive?  Not having one might be more expensive!      (copyright Tom)   . Now there is your marketing clich for the day   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 14:09:48 -0600 " From: GreyCloud <cumulus@mist.com>4 Subject: Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64( Message-ID: <431F490C.2FECEAE9@mist.com>   bob@instantwhip.com wrote: > ? > because someone is paying off HP just like they did Q to keep = > OpenVMS off x86, because the day that happens windoze/linux  > becomes toast ...   : Maybe that is what is causing Ballmer to appear sweaty all	 the time.    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2005 13:36:17 -0700  From: bob@instantwhip.com 4 Subject: Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64C Message-ID: <1126125377.266061.130330@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   1 the above tadpole argument Fred would fit itanium  to a tee ...  3 let's see now, people are buying unix and linux now / on x86 as an alternative to windoze looking for 6 security and reliability not to mention clustering but1 that would never work for vms?  How much is gates < paying you Fred or do you need a few more marketing classes?   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 21:18:01 GMT * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>4 Subject: Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA643 Message-ID: <dOITe.12033$S06.6251@news.cpqcorp.net>   5 "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net> wrote in message 4 news:vKGTe.4149$fb.2368@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk... >  >  > FredK wrote: >  > > How do I put this... > > J > > If you think that porting VMS to x86-64 (x86-32 is a non-starter) will haveE > > any material impact on the success or failure of VMS - I disagree 	 strongly. L > > It doesn't even make my top ten wishlist.  In fact, it would be almost aI > > pure negative - since it would tube current sales, and return us to a  new 1 > > 2-3 year limbo while we do it all over again.  > I > In the *hypothetical* situation of Intel announcing that Itanium was to G > be "retired" ("We have trail-blazed blah blah but now developments in I > blah blah allow us to blah blah superior customer deployment experience I > multiple orgasm blah blah with X86-64"), would your answer still be the  > same?  >   D A hypothetical and personal guess (not speaking in any way for HP orI for VMS)?  One of two results:  So long and thanks for all the fish - the H end of VMS.  Result 2:  Like dwarfs we start singing hi-ho and spend 2-3F years porting to x86-64 while our customers look forward to porting toF another architecture.  I can't predict which one would happen.  But itI then no longer becomes a idle speculation wishlist idea for "saving" VMS.   G So frankly, the best result would be that IA64 move forward and succeed + rather than either of the two alternatives.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 20:57:57 GMT   From: CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net>4 Subject: Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64* Message-ID: <431F5455.7060406@prodigy.net>   GreyCloud wrote:   > bob@instantwhip.com wrote: > ? >>because someone is paying off HP just like they did Q to keep = >>OpenVMS off x86, because the day that happens windoze/linux  >>becomes toast ...  >  > < > Maybe that is what is causing Ballmer to appear sweaty all > the time.   H According to news items, it's apparently Google and the Chinese that are getting to Ballmer and Gates.    --  D The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt toC minimize spam.  Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 21:27:00 GMT * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>4 Subject: Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA643 Message-ID: <EWITe.12035$o16.4346@news.cpqcorp.net>   5 "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net> wrote in message 4 news:F2HTe.3569$k22.790@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk... >  >  > FredK wrote: > L > > If there was an Itanium notebook, I can name the engineers that would doL > > the work as a midnight project (literally middle of the night) - because itL > > would be cool.  But I'd be hard pressed to believe that management wouldK > > be hot to trot about it from a business standpoint (perhaps a marketing I > > standpoint they might do it anyway - knowing that the engineers would  hackF > > support into the OS anyway) - because we have historical knowledgeJ > > that we can't can't price VMS low enough and get enough volume on it - to > > make it worthwhile.  > I > While I agree with most of what you say I must point out that Sun seems @ > to think that giving away the operating system for nothing ("AJ > $500-million investment produced the most advanced operating system everE > builtnow offered FREE to you. Get it today.") will still make them G > money. I know there are several responses to that but time will tell.  >   @ Sun has been seeking to find a way to get it's one-trick pony toC learn another trick.  Look at it's quarterly results since the 2000 E crash.  It hasn't led to a turnaround.  Aside from MS cash infusions,  they are bleeding red ink.  B But that doesn't mean I don't admire them for trying.  If it works= in terms of slowing the erosion of their UNIX base to Linux - A I suspect you will see a lot of others do the same.  But for now, B I think the others want to see the result of SUN's experiment have	 a payoff.   D [Besides, all they really did was to effectively shift the cost from< the front end license costs, to the back end service costs].  ? But HP isn't a one trick pony, and VMS is just one part of it's C enterprise portfolio.  Its not targeted at taking over the desktop, > or leading the low-end computing space.  It is targeted at the2 mission critical, bet your business, server space.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 22:40:34 GMT * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>4 Subject: Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA644 Message-ID: <C%JTe.12053$4%5.11091@news.cpqcorp.net>  & <bob@instantwhip.com> wrote in message= news:1126125377.266061.130330@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... 3 > the above tadpole argument Fred would fit itanium  > to a tee ... > 5 > let's see now, people are buying unix and linux now 1 > on x86 as an alternative to windoze looking for 8 > security and reliability not to mention clustering but3 > that would never work for vms?  How much is gates > > paying you Fred or do you need a few more marketing classes? >   : No.  Even Linux isn't "really" targeted at the laptop - or7 really even at the generic desktop (or high-performance 2 graphics).  The place it's making money for people" (other than RedHat) is in servers.  - Let's modify what you say.  Few customers are - switching from Windows to UNIX on x86.  There . are quite a number who are switching (or would* like to) from Windows and UNIX to Linux on1 x86-32/x86-64 in an attempt to reach the ultimate 0 realization of the SUN promise of "Open Systems"+ (from way back in the KO snake oil days) -- ' "complete" vendor independence (or it's 
 illusion).  8 It takes a truly committed Linux guy to run Linux on his8 laptop.  Instead of an appliance (Windows on the Laptop)3 it needs all the care and feeding needed by a Linux ' expert (and you had better become one).   6 I can happily run my Windows laptop in ignorant bliss.3 Comes all setup, with a quick restore CD.  Abundant 3 software is available from everywhere (on CD from a 5 store, from download on the net).  I can even have MS 2 automagically download patches and updates.  Put a; commercial anti-virus and firewall on it - and don't really 6 even need to know what they do.  I can buy pretty much5 any laptop from any source and be assured that all my  applications will run on it.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 21:20:22 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 4 Subject: Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA640 Message-ID: <11hv45o4e4oh133@corp.supernews.com>   FredK wrote:  A > But HP isn't a one trick pony, and VMS is just one part of it's E > enterprise portfolio.  Its not targeted at taking over the desktop, @ > or leading the low-end computing space.  It is targeted at the4 > mission critical, bet your business, server space.   And priced accordingly.   G Hey, if you keep prices at a point where small users won't buy, you're  F the reason why sales are low.  It's as simple as that.  Today, people 1 shop purchase price.  Most rarely look at upkeep.    They bought DOS. They bought Win95. They bought Win98. .  .  .  They bought WinXP.  F People keep buying, a little bit on each purchase, but add it up, and  they've spent plenty.   H That's the way people buy.  Good, or bad, if you want to sell, you must . give the consumer what they want and will buy.  H Now, I don't see VMS getting enough office apps to make a difference in E that market.  That's not the only low end usage, though it is rather  H large.  For example, look at what I posted about games a few weeks ago. E   300 million users!  Not saying games are your nitch either, but it  * shows that office apps are not everything.  G The problem is, the way it's advertized, marketed, priced, etc, people  > are DRIVEN to using windoz for other than office applications.  F Now we both know that the promises of $1000 VMS systems and such were D pure bullshit.  Regardless, if VMS were available on a really cheap I platform, and priced in a manner to not drive people to windows, it just  = might sell.  In volume.  And you won't know until it's tried.   	 Hardware:   	 CPU		$100  Disk 40 GB	$50 MotherBoard	$100    (graphics on MB)  Memory 512 MB	$50 	 Case		$40  DVD writer	$37.50   D Ok, maybe you might want some more, but I've got a few systems here F built around Barton core Athlons with no more than $300 invested.  An  Athlon-64 would be a bit more.   Not server quality, or price.     You won't know until it's tried.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 22:17:50 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 4 Subject: Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64, Message-ID: <431F9F42.3B4FB87C@teksavvy.com>   FredK wrote:< > No.  Even Linux isn't "really" targeted at the laptop - or9 > really even at the generic desktop (or high-performance 4 > graphics).  The place it's making money for people$ > (other than RedHat) is in servers.  D Ever heard of Lindows ? (or whatever name they are now under) ? They3 have a Linux packaging designed for desktop/laptop.   @ Sharp (I think) also has a Linux based palmtop/pocket computer.   A The mobile phone manufacturers are now betting on Linux for their - smartphones to eventually replace Symbian OS.     , > like to) from Windows and UNIX to Linux on3 > x86-32/x86-64 in an attempt to reach the ultimate 2 > realization of the SUN promise of "Open Systems"- > (from way back in the KO snake oil days) -- ) > "complete" vendor independence (or it's  > illusion).    F Yep. But that is the market reality. If you want VMS to grow, you needG to market it and sell it on a platform that is popular/mainstream. Even  if it is snake oil.       E Do you really think that VMS has greater potential on that IA64 thing  versus the 64 bit 8086 ?  H If you agree that VMS on 8086 has greater growth potential than on IA64,, then it becomes a simple business decision.   < There is no need to be religious about architecture anymore.E Architecture religion stopped the day they crucified Alpha. I realise H you guys spent a lot of time porting to IA64, and you'd hate to see thatI work wasted. You didn't decide to port to IA64, Intel/Capellas/Carly did.    H Apple also lost religion about Power and chose the 8086 because it was aD better business decision since Apple couldn't afford to fund its ownD custom chips from laptop to data center, while the 8086 has versions that fit Appple's needs.    : > It takes a truly committed Linux guy to run Linux on his
 > laptop.     G Things have greatly improved for Linux in last few years. One now needs F to lookl at the future. If VMS gets to 8086 soon, it may be able to be! ahead of Linux for small systems.     H On the 8086, you have far greater market potential, and can reach a muchF bigger pool of potential customers. And you benefit from riding on the  8086 train which is unstoppable.    G You can argue that the IA64 thing isn't dead. But I don't think you can B argue that IA64 has greater market potential than the 64 bit 8086.   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Sep 2005 02:54:30 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)4 Subject: Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64+ Message-ID: <3o9nf6F4to0dU2@individual.net>   , In article <431F9F42.3B4FB87C@teksavvy.com>,0 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > FredK wrote:= >> No.  Even Linux isn't "really" targeted at the laptop - or : >> really even at the generic desktop (or high-performance5 >> graphics).  The place it's making money for people % >> (other than RedHat) is in servers.  > F > Ever heard of Lindows ? (or whatever name they are now under) ? They5 > have a Linux packaging designed for desktop/laptop.  > B > Sharp (I think) also has a Linux based palmtop/pocket computer.   < The Zaurus, in it's many incarnations.  I really like mine!! > C > The mobile phone manufacturers are now betting on Linux for their / > smartphones to eventually replace Symbian OS.   @ And, interestingly enough, it looks like FreeBSD may actually be@ looking at challenging the embedded market with there next major version.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 13:01:49 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: Re: pws 500au problems ( Message-ID: <opswq0lba5zgicya@hyrrokkin>  K On Wed, 7 Sep 2005 22:03:16 +0200, Peter Huybrechts <m713007@hotmail.com>    wrote:   > Hi, < > I bought a pws 500au but this machine gives some problems.K > The Powerup Codes of the leds give code E4 (Memory address line error).    > The K > system boots into FreeBSD and seems to work ok. Problem is I can't get it J > into SRM mode.... Pressing Ctrl-C at boot time, nor disconnecting boot   > drive  > works.L > Somebody any Idea what's wrong ? (maybe something wrong in the flash rom   > ??)  > 	 > Thanks,  > Peter  >  > K You need to get to the Alphabios and set the OS selection. This will happen J if the battery is dead.  I think hitting F6 after powering up will get you there    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 13:58:56 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: Re: pws 500au problems ( Message-ID: <opswq28iqczgicya@hyrrokkin>  K On Wed, 7 Sep 2005 22:51:58 +0200, Peter Huybrechts <m713007@hotmail.com>    wrote:   > Nope... doesn't work. < > System boots into FreeBSD and doesn't halt at alphabios... > . > Or do you mean I have to remove the battery? > K > I just want to install OpenVMS on it. I've also read that there must be a F > way to recover with a failsafe boot diskette when putting the mlb in
 > failsafe... D > Where can I get this floppy.. how do I set the mlb in failsafe ???+ > Any documentation about this somewhere ??  > L > My idea is that the installation of freebsd placed some other bootrom in   > the G > machine...and I think I have to put the SRM boot rom back in with the  > failsafe boot disk.   K No, you somehow need to get into the alphabios and change OS Selection.  It K has been a while since I last did it and I can't remember the incantations. J The SRM console is in the ROM already.  What I meant is that a system thatD previously had been set to boot from SRM will revert to NT Selection- (ARC console) if the battery were to go dead.   / What happened when you disconnected the drives?    > 0 > "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message$ > news:opswq0lba5zgicya@hyrrokkin...8 >> On Wed, 7 Sep 2005 22:03:16 +0200, Peter Huybrechts   >> <m713007@hotmail.com>	 >> wrote:  >> >>> Hi, > >>> I bought a pws 500au but this machine gives some problems.K >>> The Powerup Codes of the leds give code E4 (Memory address line error).  >>> The L >>> system boots into FreeBSD and seems to work ok. Problem is I can't get   >>> itJ >>> into SRM mode.... Pressing Ctrl-C at boot time, nor disconnecting boot	 >>> drive 
 >>> works.J >>> Somebody any Idea what's wrong ? (maybe something wrong in the flash   >>> rom  >>> ??)  >>>  >>> Thanks, 	 >>> Peter  >>>  >>> G >> You need to get to the Alphabios and set the OS selection. This will 	 >> happen K >> if the battery is dead.  I think hitting F6 after powering up will get    >> you >> there >> >> >  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 17:39:49 -0400- From: William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com>  Subject: Re: pws 500au problems 7 Message-ID: <8660a3a1050907143926c96de6@mail.gmail.com>   ) ------=_Part_15654_11415374.1126129189937 , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  Content-Disposition: inline   - On 9/7/05, Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> wrote:  >=20K > On Wed, 7 Sep 2005 22:51:58 +0200, Peter Huybrechts <m713007@hotmail.com>  > wrote: >=20 > > Nope... doesn't work. > > > System boots into FreeBSD and doesn't halt at alphabios... > > 0 > > Or do you mean I have to remove the battery? > > L > > I just want to install OpenVMS on it. I've also read that there must be= =20  > a H > > way to recover with a failsafe boot diskette when putting the mlb in > > failsafe... F > > Where can I get this floppy.. how do I set the mlb in failsafe ???- > > Any documentation about this somewhere ??  > > L > > My idea is that the installation of freebsd placed some other bootrom i= n  > > the I > > machine...and I think I have to put the SRM boot rom back in with the  > > failsafe boot disk.  >=20L > No, you somehow need to get into the alphabios and change OS Selection. I= t B > has been a while since I last did it and I can't remember the=20 > incantations. K > The SRM console is in the ROM already. What I meant is that a system that F > previously had been set to boot from SRM will revert to NT Selection/ > (ARC console) if the battery were to go dead.  >=201 > What happened when you disconnected the drives?  >=20 > > 2 > > "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message& > > news:opswq0lba5zgicya@hyrrokkin...8 > >> On Wed, 7 Sep 2005 22:03:16 +0200, Peter Huybrechts > >> <m713007@hotmail.com> > >> wrote:  > >>	 > >>> Hi, @ > >>> I bought a pws 500au but this machine gives some problems.H > >>> The Powerup Codes of the leds give code E4 (Memory address line=20	 > error). 	 > >>> The L > >>> system boots into FreeBSD and seems to work ok. Problem is I can't ge= t  > >>> itL > >>> into SRM mode.... Pressing Ctrl-C at boot time, nor disconnecting boo= t  > >>> drive  > >>> works.J > >>> Somebody any Idea what's wrong ? (maybe something wrong in the flash	 > >>> rom 	 > >>> ??)  > >>> 
 > >>> Thanks,  > >>> Peter  > >>>  > >>> I > >> You need to get to the Alphabios and set the OS selection. This will  > >> happen J > >> if the battery is dead. I think hitting F6 after powering up will get > >> you
 > >> there > >> > >> > >  > >  >=20 >=20K And once you've got the ARC console up, the place where you switch back is=  =20 E in Advanced Options (the options are across the bottom if I recall=20 - correctly), which memory tells me is also F6.    WWWebb     --=20 F NOTE: This email address is only used for noncommerical VMS-related=20 correspondence. L All unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for service= s=202 pursuant to the terms and conditions located at=20# http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/   ) ------=_Part_15654_11415374.1126129189937 + Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  Content-Disposition: inline   L <br><br><div><span class=3D"gmail_quote">On 9/7/05, <b class=3D"gmail_sende=L rname">Tom Linden</b> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tom@kednos.com">tom@kednos.com<=L /a>&gt; wrote:</span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left=L : 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1e= x;">L On Wed, 7 Sep 2005 22:51:58 +0200, Peter Huybrechts &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:m=L 713007@hotmail.com">m713007@hotmail.com</a>&gt;<br>wrote:<br><br>&gt; Nope.=K . doesn't work.<br>&gt; System boots into FreeBSD and doesn't halt at alph=  abios...L <br>&gt;<br>&gt; Or do you mean I have to remove the battery?<br>&gt;<br>&g=L t; I just want to install OpenVMS on it. I've also read that there must be =L a<br>&gt; way to recover with a failsafe boot diskette when putting the mlb=  in L <br>&gt; failsafe...<br>&gt; Where can I get this floppy.. how do I set the=L  mlb in failsafe ???<br>&gt; Any documentation about this somewhere ??<br>&=L gt;<br>&gt; My idea is that the installation of freebsd placed some other b=	 ootrom in L <br>&gt; the<br>&gt; machine...and I think I have to put the SRM boot rom b=L ack in with the<br>&gt; failsafe boot disk.<br><br>No, you somehow need to =L get into the alphabios and change OS Selection.&nbsp;&nbsp;It<br>has been a=A  while since I last did it and I can't remember the incantations. L <br>The SRM console is in the ROM already.&nbsp;&nbsp;What I meant is that =L a system that<br>previously had been set to boot from SRM will revert to NT=L  Selection<br>(ARC console) if the battery were to go dead.<br><br>What hap=' pened when you disconnected the drives? L <br><br>&gt;<br>&gt; &quot;Tom Linden&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tom@kedno=L s.com">tom@kednos.com</a>&gt; wrote in message<br>&gt; news:opswq0lba5zgicy=L a@hyrrokkin...<br>&gt;&gt; On Wed, 7 Sep 2005 22:03:16 +0200, Peter Huybrec= hts L <br>&gt;&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:m713007@hotmail.com">m713007@hotmail.com=L </a>&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; Hi,<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;=L  I bought a pws 500au but this machine gives some problems.<br>&gt;&gt;&gt;=H  The Powerup Codes of the leds give code E4 (Memory address line error).L <br>&gt;&gt;&gt; The<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; system boots into FreeBSD and seems to=L  work ok. Problem is I can't get<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; it<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; into SR=L M mode.... Pressing Ctrl-C at boot time, nor disconnecting boot<br>&gt;&gt;=
 &gt; driveL <br>&gt;&gt;&gt; works.<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; Somebody any Idea what's wrong ? (m=L aybe something wrong in the flash<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; rom<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; ??)<b=L r>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; Thanks,<br>&gt;&gt;&gt; Peter<br>&gt;&gt;&gt= ; L <br>&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt; You need to get to the Alphabios and set the O=L S selection. This will<br>&gt;&gt; happen<br>&gt;&gt; if the battery is dea=L d.&nbsp;&nbsp;I think hitting F6 after powering up will get<br>&gt;&gt; you= <br>&gt;&gt; thereG <br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br><br></blockquote></div><br> G And once you've got the ARC console up, the place where you switch back E is in Advanced Options (the options are across the bottom if I recall 1 correctly), which memory tells me is also F6.<br>  <br>L WWWebb<br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>NOTE: This email address is only use=6 d for noncommerical VMS-related correspondence.<br>All? unsolicited commercial email will be deemed to be a request for 8 services pursuant to the terms and conditions located atL <a href=3D"http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e/webbww/">http://bellsouthpwp.net/w/e= /webbww/</a>  + ------=_Part_15654_11415374.1126129189937--    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 14:34:42 -0700 " From: Crabs <spamsucks@nospam.com> Subject: Re: pws 500au problems / Message-ID: <H8ednU63FItvwYLeRVn-pQ@sunset.net>    Peter Huybrechts wrote:  > Hi, < > I bought a pws 500au but this machine gives some problems.N > The Powerup Codes of the leds give code E4 (Memory address line error). The L > system boots into FreeBSD and seems to work ok. Problem is I can't get it O > into SRM mode.... Pressing Ctrl-C at boot time, nor disconnecting boot drive   > works.N > Somebody any Idea what's wrong ? (maybe something wrong in the flash rom ??) > 	 > Thanks,  > Peter  >  > - Remove the battery on the upper system board. 1 This will reset the sytem to boot into AlphaBios.    TomC   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 21:42:33 GMT A From: "Colin Butcher" <colin_DOT.butcher_AT@xdelta_DOT.co_DOT.uk>  Subject: Re: pws 500au problems > Message-ID: <d9JTe.104486$G8.82709@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>  L I have vague memories of something like this. I removed the mouse & keyboard7 and used the serial console - then all seemed to be OK.   3 Re-loading the firmware would be a reasonable idea.    --     Hope this helps, Colin. ) colin DOT butcher AT xdelta DOT co DOT uk E It's not mine, but I like this definition: Legacy = stuff that works.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 23:24:35 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)  Subject: Re: pws 500au problems 3 Message-ID: <TEKTe.12071$b36.1562@news.cpqcorp.net>   g In article <8660a3a1050907143926c96de6@mail.gmail.com>, William Webb <william.w.webb@gmail.com> writes: K :...And once you've got the ARC console up, the place where you switch back F :is in Advanced Options (the options are across the bottom if I recall0 :correctly), which memory tells me is also F6...       The FAQ section:  =     "How do I switch between AlphaBIOS/ARC and SRM consoles?"      may be of some interest here.   A   I'll queue an update for the next edition of the FAQ around the A   "it's stuck in AlphaBIOS/ARC and won't come out" case; the case @   where the battery has died and the system console unilaterally/   selects AlphaBIOS/ARC operations on power-up.     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 01:06:25 +0200. From: "Peter Huybrechts" <m713007@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: pws 500au problems 6 Message-ID: <431f726f$0$28713$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>   indeed!! This works   ) but this seems to be an a-series model...   : Do you know if this can be upgraded to work with OpenVMS ?  0 "Crabs" <spamsucks@nospam.com> wrote in message ) news:H8ednU63FItvwYLeRVn-pQ@sunset.net...  > Peter Huybrechts wrote:  >> Hi,= >> I bought a pws 500au but this machine gives some problems. K >> The Powerup Codes of the leds give code E4 (Memory address line error).  J >> The system boots into FreeBSD and seems to work ok. Problem is I can't L >> get it into SRM mode.... Pressing Ctrl-C at boot time, nor disconnecting  >> boot drive works.L >> Somebody any Idea what's wrong ? (maybe something wrong in the flash rom  >> ??) >>
 >> Thanks, >> Peter/ > Remove the battery on the upper system board. 3 > This will reset the sytem to boot into AlphaBios.  >  > TomC     ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 01:05:30 +0200. From: "Peter Huybrechts" <m713007@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: pws 500au problems 5 Message-ID: <431f7239$0$8598$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>    Nothing happens...  3 removing battery seems to bring me in the alphabios   / "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message  " news:opswq28iqczgicya@hyrrokkin...L > On Wed, 7 Sep 2005 22:51:58 +0200, Peter Huybrechts <m713007@hotmail.com>  > wrote: >  >> Nope... doesn't work.= >> System boots into FreeBSD and doesn't halt at alphabios...  >>/ >> Or do you mean I have to remove the battery?  >>L >> I just want to install OpenVMS on it. I've also read that there must be aG >> way to recover with a failsafe boot diskette when putting the mlb in  >> failsafe...E >> Where can I get this floppy.. how do I set the mlb in failsafe ??? , >> Any documentation about this somewhere ?? >>L >> My idea is that the installation of freebsd placed some other bootrom in  >> theH >> machine...and I think I have to put the SRM boot rom back in with the >> failsafe boot disk. > J > No, you somehow need to get into the alphabios and change OS Selection.  > It@ > has been a while since I last did it and I can't remember the  > incantations. L > The SRM console is in the ROM already.  What I meant is that a system thatF > previously had been set to boot from SRM will revert to NT Selection/ > (ARC console) if the battery were to go dead.  > 1 > What happened when you disconnected the drives?  >  >>1 >> "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote in message % >> news:opswq0lba5zgicya@hyrrokkin... 8 >>> On Wed, 7 Sep 2005 22:03:16 +0200, Peter Huybrechts  >>> <m713007@hotmail.com> 
 >>> wrote: >>>  >>>> Hi,? >>>> I bought a pws 500au but this machine gives some problems. L >>>> The Powerup Codes of the leds give code E4 (Memory address line error). >>>> TheL >>>> system boots into FreeBSD and seems to work ok. Problem is I can't get  >>>> it K >>>> into SRM mode.... Pressing Ctrl-C at boot time, nor disconnecting boot 
 >>>> drive >>>> works. J >>>> Somebody any Idea what's wrong ? (maybe something wrong in the flash  >>>> rom >>>> ??) >>>> >>>> Thanks,
 >>>> Peter >>>> >>>>H >>> You need to get to the Alphabios and set the OS selection. This will
 >>> happenK >>> if the battery is dead.  I think hitting F6 after powering up will get   >>> you 	 >>> there  >>>  >>>  >> >> >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 01:07:05 +0200. From: "Peter Huybrechts" <m713007@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: pws 500au problems 6 Message-ID: <431f7298$0$23669$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>  ' removal of the battry seems to work :-)     M "Colin Butcher" <colin_DOT.butcher_AT@xdelta_DOT.co_DOT.uk> wrote in message  8 news:d9JTe.104486$G8.82709@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...E >I have vague memories of something like this. I removed the mouse &  	 >keyboard 9 > and used the serial console - then all seemed to be OK.  > 5 > Re-loading the firmware would be a reasonable idea.  >  > --   >  > Hope this helps, Colin. + > colin DOT butcher AT xdelta DOT co DOT uk G > It's not mine, but I like this definition: Legacy = stuff that works.  >  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 01:25:27 +0200. From: "Peter Huybrechts" <m713007@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: pws 500au problems 6 Message-ID: <431f76e5$0$24343$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>  , ok guys.. everything seems to work fine now.+ I was a little too quick with my reactions. M removal of the battery worked, and have put the default rom (via cmos setup)   to SRM. 3 now it's an au system.. OpenVMS will install fiine.   , Thanks to everybody who responded so quick ! :-)))     : "Peter Huybrechts" <m713007@hotmail.com> wrote in message / news:431f4782$0$6578$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...  > Hi, < > I bought a pws 500au but this machine gives some problems.J > The Powerup Codes of the leds give code E4 (Memory address line error). M > The system boots into FreeBSD and seems to work ok. Problem is I can't get  L > it into SRM mode.... Pressing Ctrl-C at boot time, nor disconnecting boot  > drive works.K > Somebody any Idea what's wrong ? (maybe something wrong in the flash rom   > ??)  > 	 > Thanks,  > Peter  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 16:39:51 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: Re: pws 500au problems ( Message-ID: <opswraopuozgicya@hyrrokkin>  K On Thu, 8 Sep 2005 01:05:30 +0200, Peter Huybrechts <m713007@hotmail.com>    wrote:  5 > removing battery seems to bring me in the alphabios   D Good, now F6 should give you advance options and move cursor to OS  	 Selection  and toggle for VMS.   I What happens if you turn power off, put the battery back in and power up?  Does it go into Alphabios?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 16:48:31 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: Re: pws 500au problems ( Message-ID: <opswra25jtzgicya@hyrrokkin>  K On Thu, 8 Sep 2005 01:25:27 +0200, Peter Huybrechts <m713007@hotmail.com>    wrote:  . > ok guys.. everything seems to work fine now.- > I was a little too quick with my reactions. I > removal of the battery worked, and have put the default rom (via cmos    > setup)	 > to SRM. 5 > now it's an au system.. OpenVMS will install fiine.  > . > Thanks to everybody who responded so quick ! > :-)))  >  > ; > "Peter Huybrechts" <m713007@hotmail.com> wrote in message 1 > news:431f4782$0$6578$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...  >> Hi,= >> I bought a pws 500au but this machine gives some problems. J >> The Powerup Codes of the leds give code E4 (Memory address line error).K >> The system boots into FreeBSD and seems to work ok. Problem is I can't    >> getI >> it into SRM mode.... Pressing Ctrl-C at boot time, nor disconnecting    >> boot  >> drive works. K >> Somebody any Idea what's wrong ? (maybe something wrong in the flash rom  >> ??)  K The difference between A and AU or Miata and Miata GL were two that I can   	 think of, K The GL remebers the state of the power switch after interruption and will    power J itself backup assuming AUTO_ACTION is set to restart  and GL had onboard   SCSI.   E BTW. I have previously posted the dip switch setting to run this at   
 600MHz, which J I have successfully done on both 500's and 433's.  It will not cause any   damage.  >>
 >> Thanks, >> Peter >> >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 13:14:44 -0700 + From: "Russell E. Owen" <rowen@cesmail.net> : Subject: Re: tcp connection that looks like a serial port?A Message-ID: <rowen-10D22C.13144407092005@gnus01.u.washington.edu>   , In article <431E2F98.128471E9@teksavvy.com>,/  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:    >"Russell E. Owen" wrote: I >> I can rewrite my code to use tcp/ip instead of the serial port driver. J >> But I'm wondering if it is necessary. Is there some straightforward wayF >> to set up the computer so my code thinks it is communicating via an9 >> RS-232 serial port but is actually talking via tcp/ip?  >  >Not sure if it will work. But:  >  >HELP TELNET/CREATE  >  > I >This establishes a connection to the node/port and instead of going into I >a TELNET mode, it comes back to DCL and leaves a device create that your D >application can then use. Not sure how well this would work, but it* >might be the most straighforwatf option.  > H >Make sure you look at all the options, especially the /NVT or /NONVT if@ >you want anty of the telnet escape sequence processing etc etc.  6 Thank you and all the others for your helpful replies.4 telnet/create=permanent is exactly what I was after.  
 -- Russell   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 20:53:28 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) : Subject: Re: tcp connection that looks like a serial port?3 Message-ID: <crITe.12028$3%5.7780@news.cpqcorp.net>   o In article <rowen-10D22C.13144407092005@gnus01.u.washington.edu>, "Russell E. Owen" <rowen@cesmail.net> writes: 7 :Thank you and all the others for your helpful replies. 5 :telnet/create=permanent is exactly what I was after.   L   I will add the MultiNet "reverse telnet" command "telnet/create=permanent"D   into a future edition of the FAQ.  (CREATE-NTY isn't needed here?)  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Sep 2005 15:05:43 -0700 $ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>% Subject: Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX C Message-ID: <1126130743.736373.257340@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    WhoDat? wrote: > norm.raph...@metso.com wrote: B > > "WhoDat?" <whohe@whoever.com> wrote on 09/06/2005 12:55:37 PM: > >  > > > Tim ffrench-Lynch wrote:N > > > > Is VAXen a well enough established plural of VAX to use in a technical > > > > document?  > > > >  > > > > Tim  > > >  [...]  > I > Fish is a noun. One can use it as a verb, too. Fish is not a trademark. E > It is a "real" word. It is in common usage and can't be trademarked G > except as part of a "made-up" phrase. Trademarks are made-up words or F > acronyms and are proper adjectives used to describe a noun. VAX is aH > word "made-up" by Digital Equipment Corporation to describe a specific > type of computer.  > L > > This has nothing to do with proper adjectives, and everything to do with3 > > English usage - which follows no rule for long.  > >  > D > The English language follows definite rules. The vernacular use ofH > English might bend or break a rule, but a rule stands until sufficientC > recognized authorities agree upon a change. Trademarks are proper B > adjectives and follow the English language rules for adjectives.  B Well, there is some disagreement about some of the rules. Ending aF sentence with a preposition is one of them. Splitting an infinitive isG another (To boldly go where no man has gone before, e.g.). Just who are  your "recognized authorities"?  D Norm talked about usage. I hear all kinds of improper usage and that@ usage does vary, albeit slowly. The "were" of the subjunctive isB rapidly morphing into "was". I even see "was" instead of "were" inC respected publications. Then there's the relatively new "have went" B instead of "have gone" and the like. It sounds really awful to me.G What's happening in our schools?! The old "proper" distinctions between E 'will' and 'shall' have been eroding steadily for decades and are all A but gone for most Americans. Some people are now tending to spell E "lose" as "loose". Then there're other fun ones like "For you and I",  "Him and I went...".  G And as far as rules go, forget spelling. The only fast and hard rule in B English spelling is: Spell it correctly. (Such use of the colon is> improper as I was taught, but I frequently see it in respected publications!)  G Well, a case could be made for "i before e except when it's e before i" G (!). You can't go wrong following that one (of course because it's just " a subset of "Spell it correctly").    > > > VAXen is vernacular slang. > > >  > > This is indeed so.  D The popularity of the term 'VAXen' totally eludes me. It even soundsE insulting to me. Are we not men? (with "apologies" to the band DEVO).    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 11:41:55 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com% Subject: Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX Q Message-ID: <OFF4862C46.BE364190-ON85257075.0056113A-85257075.00563C50@metso.com>   H "Jim MacKenzie" <jim@dusykbarlow.sk.ca> wrote on 09/07/2005 10:58:53 AM:   > 0 > "WhoDat?" <whohe@whoever.com> wrote in message? > news:1126038168.027073.132160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... F > > The English language follows definite rules. The vernacular use ofJ > > English might bend or break a rule, but a rule stands until sufficientE > > recognized authorities agree upon a change. Trademarks are proper D > > adjectives and follow the English language rules for adjectives. > G > This might be technically true, but I know of no one who says Kleenex  facialK > tissues, Xerox photocopying machines, or DeskJet inkjet printers.  I like   H > Mazdas; I don't need to say "Mazda automobiles".  We use trademarks in the H > plural all the time in English.  If it's not technically correct, it's  > acquired de facto correctness. >  > Jim  >  >    Absolutely!   H By the way, I know of no one who says Kleenices instead of Kleenexes, or Kleenexen, either.  ;)   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 12:08:22 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com% Subject: Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX Q Message-ID: <OFF756B954.105E9D39-ON85257075.0056627D-85257075.0058A846@metso.com>   H "Jim MacKenzie" <jim@dusykbarlow.sk.ca> wrote on 09/07/2005 10:53:05 AM:   > ----- Original Message -----  > From: <norm.raphael@metso.com> > Newsgroups: comp.os.vms - > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 11:06 AM ' > Subject: Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX  >  > C > > Well, actually, the Latin plural of "appendix" is "appendices." 5 > > The English plural of "appendix" is "appendixes."  > > G > > [Not all words migrate exactly from Latin to English.  For example, D > > "agenda" is a Latin plural form, but in English it means a list,D > > and so can take an English plural of "agendas," which to a Roman. > > would be like "listses," which is absurd.] > G > "Appendices" is far more common than "appendixes" in my corner of the  world.K > "Appendixes" implies the organ; "appendices" implies the adjunct chapter.   H I already appologized for that hasty generalization.  Appendices and its< similar plurals are indeed accepted if not preferred usages.   > ? > We use lots of plurals derived from Latin:  data (for datum),   K Not to belabor the point, datum is a single instance, data is both singular E and plural as I understand it, representing one collection of data or C serveral collections of data, collectively referred to as the data. I Whether one says the data is or the data are depends on if or not you use  data as a collective noun.    H >                                                               formulae (forK > formula; granted, "formulas" is more common), memoranda (for memorandum).   H > Some people do use more anglicized plurals (plurae? :) OK, kidding...) but H > that doesn't make them correct.  Sure, they may become accepted and beI > correct, but they aren't necessarily now.  (Kind of like "doughnut" and J > "donut"; the latter is more commonly used in the US, but it really isn'tG > correct.  It's used enough, however, that one day it probably will be ' > considered to be a correct spelling.)  >   J Donut is a corruption from advertising and commercial naming abominations.I It may migrate into common usage, but it will never be "correct" to most. E We now have the donut spare tyre (the one that is not full-size) as a E consequence.  Rapper spelling (ebonics) is also not correct, but boyz " seems to be cropping up too often.  . You're all too young to remember the "Ameche."  G > There are more Latin-derived plurals but I can't think of any without  doing  > research on the subject. > F > Besides, "VAXen" isn't a Latin derivation, it's Saxon, like oxen andD > children, and I haven't heard people talking about oxes and childs lately.  > K > Is it an uncommon pluralization?  Unquestionably.  Is it incorrect?  That  is > highly debatable.   H It is, but I know no authority citing it as correct.  It is argot, so we= practitioners may use it at will and claim it as we like, eh!    >  > Jim  >  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 12:23:40 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com% Subject: Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX Q Message-ID: <OFB88A3B4E.9A3B212C-ON85257075.0058FD81-85257075.005A0ED8@metso.com>   : --0__=0ABBFAE6DFCB7B118f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBFAE6DFCB7B11, Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1+ Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable         > "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote on 09/07/2005 11:38:33 AM:  H > On Wed, 7 Sep 2005 08:53:05 -0600, Jim MacKenzie <jim@dusykbarlow.sk.= ca>    > wrote: > H > > "Appendices" is far more common than "appendixes" in my corner of t= he
 > > world.D > > "Appendixes" implies the organ; "appendices" implies the adjunct chapter. > C > Indexes and indices are both correct but have different meanings.    I grok that not.  H My dictionary references both forms as plural of index, although at 4 i= t B expresses a preference for the latin for when used mathematically.  ! What are your different meanings?   B Main Entry: 1in=B7dex (Embedded image moved to file: pic02154.gif) Pronunciation: 'in-"deks Function: nounC Inflected Form(s): plural in=B7dex=B7es or in=B7di=B7ces /-d&-"sEz/ 9 Etymology: Latin indic-, index, from indicare to indicate H 1 a : a device (as the pointer on a scale or the gnomon of a sundial) t= hat H serves to indicate a value or quantity b : something (as a physical fea= tureH or a mode of expression) that leads one to a particular fact or conclus= ion  : INDICATIONH 2 : a list (as of bibliographical information or citations to a body of=  H literature) arranged usually in alphabetical order of some specified da= tum F (as author, subject, or keyword): as a : a list of items (as topics orH names) treated in a printed work that gives for each item the page numb= erH where it may be found b : THUMB INDEX c : a bibliographical analysis of=  = groups of publications that is usually published periodically H 3 : a list of restricted or prohibited material; specifically capitaliz= ed :H a list of books the reading of which is prohibited or restricted for Ro= man # Catholics by the church authorities B 4 plural usually indices : a number or symbol or expression (as anH exponent) associated with another to indicate a mathematical operation = to= be performed or to indicate use or position in an arrangement H 5 : a character <fist> used to direct attention to a note or paragraph = -- called also fistH 6 a : a number (as a ratio) derived from a series of observations and u= sed H as an indicator or measure; specifically : INDEX NUMBER b : the ratio o= f H one dimension of a thing (as an anatomical structure) to another dimens= ion  =   : --0__=0ABBFAE6DFCB7B118f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBFAE6DFCB7B11 Content-type: image/gif;   	name="pic02154.gif"8 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pic02154.gif"! Content-transfer-encoding: base64   L R0lGODlhEAALALMAAM4AIf///wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH AAAAACwAAAAAEAALAAAEIjDIGQCgmNored5epYGWaHYkp07perZdjJKyB7sYqGUzO0UAOw==  < --0__=0ABBFAE6DFCB7B118f9e8a93df938690918c0ABBFAE6DFCB7B11--   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 16:34:30 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> % Subject: Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX ( Message-ID: <opswrafsd6zgicya@hyrrokkin>  B On Wed, 7 Sep 2005 11:41:55 -0400, <norm.raphael@metso.com> wrote:  J > By the way, I know of no one who says Kleenices instead of Kleenexes, or > Kleenexen, either.  A Really?,  Have you never heard anybody say, "Gibt mir bitte die    Kleenexen?  :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 16:36:16 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> % Subject: Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX ( Message-ID: <opswraiqzgzgicya@hyrrokkin>  B On Wed, 7 Sep 2005 12:23:40 -0400, <norm.raphael@metso.com> wrote:   >  >  > @ > "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote on 09/07/2005 11:38:33 AM: > K >> On Wed, 7 Sep 2005 08:53:05 -0600, Jim MacKenzie <jim@dusykbarlow.sk.ca>  > 	 >> wrote:  >>J >> > "Appendices" is far more common than "appendixes" in my corner of the >> > world. E >> > "Appendixes" implies the organ; "appendices" implies the adjunct 
 > chapter. >>D >> Indexes and indices are both correct but have different meanings. >  > I grok that not. > J > My dictionary references both forms as plural of index, although at 4 itD > expresses a preference for the latin for when used mathematically. > # > What are your different meanings?  > B > Main Entry: 1index (Embedded image moved to file: pic02154.gif) > Pronunciation: 'in-"deks > Function: noun= > Inflected Form(s): plural indexes or indices /-d&-"sEz/ ; > Etymology: Latin indic-, index, from indicare to indicate I > 1 a : a device (as the pointer on a scale or the gnomon of a sundial)    > thatG > serves to indicate a value or quantity b : something (as a physical   	 > feature C > or a mode of expression) that leads one to a particular fact or    > conclusion > : INDICATIONI > 2 : a list (as of bibliographical information or citations to a body of H > literature) arranged usually in alphabetical order of some specified   > datum H > (as author, subject, or keyword): as a : a list of items (as topics orK > names) treated in a printed work that gives for each item the page number I > where it may be found b : THUMB INDEX c : a bibliographical analysis of ? > groups of publications that is usually published periodically A > 3 : a list of restricted or prohibited material; specifically    > capitalized : H > a list of books the reading of which is prohibited or restricted for   > Roman % > Catholics by the church authorities D > 4 plural usually indices : a number or symbol or expression (as anK > exponent) associated with another to indicate a mathematical operation to ? > be performed or to indicate use or position in an arrangement K > 5 : a character <fist> used to direct attention to a note or paragraph --  > called also fistI > 6 a : a number (as a ratio) derived from a series of observations and    > usedJ > as an indicator or measure; specifically : INDEX NUMBER b : the ratio ofD > one dimension of a thing (as an anatomical structure) to another   > dimension   = indices is used mathematically, indexes is used for plural of 2 such things as stock indexes.   My dictionary says? "indices  in the sense of mathematical or other abstract signs, + indexes in the sense of tables of contents.   9 But then my dicitonary has the 1930 census as the latest.    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Sep 2005 02:50:20 GMT 1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) % Subject: Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX + Message-ID: <3o9n7cF4to0dU1@individual.net>   ( In article <opswrafsd6zgicya@hyrrokkin>,& 	"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:D > On Wed, 7 Sep 2005 11:41:55 -0400, <norm.raphael@metso.com> wrote: > K >> By the way, I know of no one who says Kleenices instead of Kleenexes, or  >> Kleenexen, either.  > C > Really?,  Have you never heard anybody say, "Gibt mir bitte die    > Kleenexen?  :-)   L That would actually be "Geben Sie mir, bitte, die Papiertaschentuecher." :-)   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 20:42:27 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>U Subject: Re: [OpenVMS V8.2 and below] Why is LAT not registered for SHOW NETWORK ? ?? + Message-ID: <431F9703.2F15E8B2@comcast.net>     Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote: > E > Does anyone know why LAT is a network protocol which is (still) not F > registered/configured (via SYS$STARTUP:SYS$NET_SERVICES_LAT.COM) forF > $ SHOW NETWORK[/FULL], START/NETWORK, STOP/NETWORK and SET NETWORK ? > 8 > Do I have to write my own (SYS$NET_SERVICES_LAT.COM) ?? > Did someone already hacked it together (and made it public) ? C > Did VMS engineering get it sent (and choosed not to include it) ?  >  > Just curious  B The examples under HELP SET NETWORK /REGISTER may be useful if youF cross-reference them to the HELP in LATCP (or $ HELP/LIBR=LATCP$HELP).   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.501 ************************