1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 08 Sep 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 502       Contents:. Re: ANN: a yet another POP3 Server for OpenVMS# Re: ARCH_NAME nomenclature question # Re: ARCH_NAME nomenclature question # Re: ARCH_NAME nomenclature question # Re: ARCH_NAME nomenclature question # Re: ARCH_NAME nomenclature question E Re: creating/manipulating user accounts programmatically from Windows E Re: creating/manipulating user accounts programmatically from Windows E Re: creating/manipulating user accounts programmatically from Windows E Re: creating/manipulating user accounts programmatically from Windows E Re: creating/manipulating user accounts programmatically from Windows  DCPS port 9100 printing 0 Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15)P Re:  hpUG Seminar - "Making & Breaking OpenVMS Clusters" - 15th September - Warr$ Hurd to detail strategic plan Dec 13( Re: Hurd to detail strategic plan Dec 13( Re: Hurd to detail strategic plan Dec 13( RE: Hurd to detail strategic plan Dec 13( Re: Hurd to detail strategic plan Dec 13( Re: Hurd to detail strategic plan Dec 13( RE: Hurd to detail strategic plan Dec 13( Re: Hurd to detail strategic plan Dec 13( RE: Hurd to detail strategic plan Dec 13( Re: Hurd to detail strategic plan Dec 13( Re: Hurd to detail strategic plan Dec 13( RE: Hurd to detail strategic plan Dec 13( RE: Hurd to detail strategic plan Dec 13( Re: Hurd to detail strategic plan Dec 13+ Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64 + Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64 + Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64  Re: pws 500au problems Re: pws 500au problems. VAX OpenVMS 7.1 and TCP/IP 5.1 startup problem2 Re: VAX OpenVMS 7.1 and TCP/IP 5.1 startup problem Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 12:48:15 +0400 N From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <zzLaishev@zzDeltaTelecom.RU-remove.all-zz-to-reply>7 Subject: Re: ANN: a yet another POP3 Server for OpenVMS 3 Message-ID: <210FA9D73F9B257714A5C60B74FF56DD@nntp>    Hi, All!   	There is some other fixes:   % 	- Crash during calling CONV$RECLAIM; & 	- Added/fixed LAST/TOP POP3 commands;   	Updated kit is on the .ZIP:  < 	http://starlet.deltatel.ru/~laishev/work/pop3/spop3_srv.zip         Ruslan R. Laishev wrote:
 > Hi, All! > I >     There is a fixed bug with the EXPIRE option. Please update the kit.  >  > Ruslan R. Laishev wrote: >  >> Hi Alan!  >>% >>     Thanks for pointing. Just did: F >>         http://starlet.deltatel.ru/~laishev/work/pop3/spop3_srv.zip >> >> >> Alan Greig wrote: >> >>>  >>>  >>> Ruslan R. Laishev wrote: >>>  >>>> Hi All!D >>>>     I wrote a yet another POP3 server for OVMS (using RMS I/O, E >>>> PTHREAD interface), in my case it's a replacement of the IUPOP3  4 >>>> server, who interesting can see/get sources at: >>>>7 >>>>     http://starlet.deltatel.ru/~laishev/work/pop3/  >>>>D >>> Thanks. Any chance of making a zip archive to simplify download? >>>  >>>  >> >    --  F + WBR, OpenVMS [Sys|Net] HardWorker .................................+9 Delta Telecom JSC, IMT-MC-450(CDMA2000) cellular operator E Russia,191119,St.Petersburg,Transportny per. 3 Cel: +7 (812) 716-3222 F +http://starlet.deltatelecom.ru ............. Frying on OpenVMS only +   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 01:50:56 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> , Subject: Re: ARCH_NAME nomenclature question0 Message-ID: <11hvk11neqp86be@corp.supernews.com>   David J Dachtera wrote:  > JF Mezei wrote:  >  >>David J Dachtera wrote:  >>: >>>Well, dashes are legal - if confusing - in filespec.'s. >>2 >>But not for symbols. (and not sure for logicals) >> >>G >>>...though exactly what string will be returned on OpenVMS for x86-64  >>>remains to be seen. >>  >>I vote for "8086"  :-) :-) :-) >  > F > Since that's an 8/16 bit processor, I'd vote for "X8664" or "I64" to > represent the 32/64 bit CPUs.  >   3 Since we're playing a naming game, with no meaning.   B AMD64.  What else?  Would there be an x86-64 if not for AMD?  Not F likely.  Intel would be winding down IA-32 and telling us all that we  WILL run on the itanic.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 02:09:08 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> , Subject: Re: ARCH_NAME nomenclature question, Message-ID: <431FD56A.69D8170C@teksavvy.com>   Dave Froble wrote:5 > Since we're playing a naming game, with no meaning.  >  > AMD64.  What else?      8 I don't think it is right to have a company name in it.   8 While I would like 8086, my guess is that it will be X86  G If, by 2007, the 8086 will be available in 64 bits only, the name would G not require a "64". But if the 8086 is still available in 32 and 64 bit & flavours, then perhaps X8664 or X86_64   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 12:19:23 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>, Subject: Re: ARCH_NAME nomenclature question; Message-ID: <f%VTe.7003$k22.5927@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Dave Froble wrote: > 5 >>Since we're playing a naming game, with no meaning.  >> >>AMD64.  What else?    ; Ok, then AA64? :-) After all the I in IA64 stands for Intel      --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Sep 2005 07:43:49 -0500 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) , Subject: Re: ARCH_NAME nomenclature question3 Message-ID: <N89njwiNCAYA@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <431F95AF.F6AAFBDE@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: > H > At some point, stock holders may demand that Intel stop stuffing money > down that rathole.  F    Right, just like stockholders are demanding that Sun give up SPARC,7    HP give up PCs, and Microsoft sell quality software.   E    How many stockholders did it take to pressure Compaq into dropping     Alpha and merging with HP?   E    Stockholders are interested only in the bottom line and haven't in B    most cases got a clue as to what technology a technical company    should be persuing.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:45:31 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com, Subject: Re: ARCH_NAME nomenclature questionQ Message-ID: <OFE2716324.862508C7-ON85257076.004B85C3-85257076.004B9423@metso.com>   C Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net> wrote on 09/08/2005 08:19:23 AM:    >  >  > JF Mezei wrote:  > > Dave Froble wrote: > > 7 > >>Since we're playing a naming game, with no meaning.  > >> > >>AMD64.  What else? > = > Ok, then AA64? :-) After all the I in IA64 stands for Intel  >  >   0 I thought the I stood for "IndustryStandard"  ;)   > -- > Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 01:56:31 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> N Subject: Re: creating/manipulating user accounts programmatically from Windows0 Message-ID: <11hvkbegek4sa51@corp.supernews.com>   mabbuttg@yahoo.ca wrote: > David J Dachtera wrote:  >  > <snip> > A >>In general, using a "toy" like Windows to automate a commercial J >>computing platform like VMS is rather frowned upon. Windows has too manyD >>issues with stability and security for many "regulation compliant" >>environments, also.  >  > I > I agree with the sentiment, but the other half of this equation is that E > we also have a decent-sized Windows environment, and therefore also E > create/modify Windows accounts on a regular basis as well.  So, I'm G > looking to create a "master" script/program that will prompt for both D > Windows and OpenVMS account information and create (and eventually > modify) accounts as needed.  >  > Thanks for all the input.  >  > Glenn  >   B Well, I've waited to see it, but not one post I've seen has asked 6 anything about volume, life of user account, and such.  D Putting significant effort into creating 10 user accounts isn't too G smart.  I'll be done (manually) and off doing something fun before the  4 complex procedure is barely begun being implemented.  D If we're talking 5000 user accounts, periodically, then I'd look at  industrializing the task.   / So, what's the answer?  How many user accounts?    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Sep 2005 04:19:28 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) N Subject: Re: creating/manipulating user accounts programmatically from Windows3 Message-ID: <RjKwcNPPNZyF@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <1126164837.548968.43690@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, mabbuttg@yahoo.ca writes:  H > And, as I said in a reply a little earlier, I'm also hoping to combineH > this with a Windows user creation script, so I can do this all at once. > and save myself and my colleagues some time.  B Have you considered driving the Windows creation script from VMS ?B How about even having the VMS system _create_ the Windows creation. script (for all the new users on a given day).  @ I presume that people who gets a windows username also get a VMS@ username and vice versa, our we would not be talking about this.  C > Basically, between OpenVMS and Windows account changes, one of us C > typically spends at least a solid hour daily, sometimes 2 or more D > depending on volume.  The most time consuming part is creating newF > accounts - not difficult, just multiple step - and when you're doingE > them in volume I also find I tend to make small mistakes over time.  > I > So, if we can automate part of the process, we can get more support and I > project work done in the course of the day and spend less time on basic  > admin stuff.  > Nobody creating VMS usernames in a production environment does< it entirely manually, and automation is the norm.  But there> is nothing GUI in nature about a script.  GUI mechanisms allow; the user to control what is done and in what order, whereas < the business of creating accounts should be done in a strict@ order with predetermined questions (even if one of the questionsA effectively amounts to "Do you want to skip the next 15 questions  about database access".   @ If you are giving accounts on two operating systems to everybody? there is a great opportunity to enter _some_ of the information = just once, but that process is not going to be GUI in nature.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 08:36:50 -0500 2 From: "-Andy-" <see2go4me@spamdelicious.yahoo.com>N Subject: Re: creating/manipulating user accounts programmatically from Windows6 Message-ID: <Xns96CB61CDA646Asee2go4me@216.196.97.131>    <mabbuttg@yahoo.ca> wrote: 4 > I'm looking at creating a basic program/script on - > Win32 to automate our user creation process   7 > So, other than scripting a telnet session, is there a 4 > COM/OLE/ActiveX control out there that can help me > automate this?    6 If you have CONNX... or are willing to spend money on % it... look for their info on OLE rpc:      http://www.connx.com/   : (Can't seem to find a direct link to it... but their user  manuals are all online)        -Andy-   --  4 You can get anything you want, at Alice's Restaurant -- Excepting Alice   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 12:43:18 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> N Subject: Re: creating/manipulating user accounts programmatically from Windows0 Message-ID: <11i0q86kh709abf@corp.supernews.com>   mabbuttg@yahoo.ca wrote:G > It's roughly 25 - 50 new accounts per week.  Not insurmountable to do D > it manually, but enough to start taking up a decent chunk of time. > H > And, as I said in a reply a little earlier, I'm also hoping to combineH > this with a Windows user creation script, so I can do this all at once. > and save myself and my colleagues some time. > C > Basically, between OpenVMS and Windows account changes, one of us C > typically spends at least a solid hour daily, sometimes 2 or more D > depending on volume.  The most time consuming part is creating newF > accounts - not difficult, just multiple step - and when you're doingE > them in volume I also find I tend to make small mistakes over time.  > I > So, if we can automate part of the process, we can get more support and I > project work done in the course of the day and spend less time on basic  > admin stuff. > 	 > Thanks,  > Glenn  >   G On the VMS side, the easiest method is to have a text file with CREATE  D commands.  If most of the SYSUAF fields can use the defaults in the H DEFAULT SYSUAF record, then your create command will need only the data  unique to each user.  ' The file needs a prefix something like:    $ set default SYS$SYSTEM:  $ run AUTHORIZE   
 And a suffix:    EXIT $ set default SYS$LOGIN:  H If you're particularly lazy, you can have 2 files set up, and then copy C the prefix, the create commands, and the suffix into a single file.   B The following will then do the work, providing you with a logfile:  D $ SPAWN /NOWAIT /NOTIFY /IN=<your filename> /OUT=<some logfile name>  H Your source of data for creating the create commands probably will need B some VMS specific pieces of data.  The procedure that creates the H scripts for both systems could run on either environment, whichever you ! feel most comfortable working in.   + Can't say much more with knowing specifics.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Sep 2005 12:27:25 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) N Subject: Re: creating/manipulating user accounts programmatically from Windows3 Message-ID: <DRyevOiKkCen@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ] In article <1126199776.102181.287020@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, mabbuttg@yahoo.ca writes: F > That's the rub - not all users are going to have Windows accounts orB > VMS accounts.  It's a manufacturing environment running a customB > ordering/production/shipping system on VMS, so most of the plant< > workers have a VMS login, but not a Windows login, whereasI > supervisors/managers have both, and some office support staff only have  > Windows accounts.  > G > So, I'm looking at having a script/program that can do either or both  > types of accounts.  I I would suggest an initial question to establish which accounts they get.    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Sep 2005 10:31:55 -0700 ' From: paul.santangelo@nssg.konicabt.com   Subject: DCPS port 9100 printingC Message-ID: <1126200715.858371.302780@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   
 Hello All:  G I'm trying to figure out the OpenVMS init command to setup a DCPS queue > for an HP color printer printing to port 9100 with the NO_SYNC parameter, I just dont get it.   Can anyone help?   Thanks!    -paul    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 10:44:58 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com9 Subject: Re: Hp Technology forum (New Orleans sept 12-15) Q Message-ID: <OF375973DF.97DC206E-ON85257076.0050AA8F-85257076.0051058E@metso.com>   ; Since this has become about something other than the forum,   4 Common Cause has started a blog looking for tales of9 government mismanagement, etc. so it can hold accountable 1 those who failed.  They want first-hand accounts. ; Grinding axes aside, it should make for some scary reading.   G Whether in the end they or anyone can make things better for the future & is the question we will all be asking.  4 http://www.commonblog.com/story/2005/9/7/155439/2288   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 13:21:12 GMT A From: "Colin Butcher" <colin_DOT.butcher_AT@xdelta_DOT.co_DOT.uk> Y Subject: Re:  hpUG Seminar - "Making & Breaking OpenVMS Clusters" - 15th September - Warr > Message-ID: <cVWTe.104768$G8.53696@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>  $ Regrettably this has been postponed.   --     Hope this helps, Colin. ) colin DOT butcher AT xdelta DOT co DOT uk E It's not mine, but I like this definition: Legacy = stuff that works.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 04:12:56 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> - Subject: Hurd to detail strategic plan Dec 13 , Message-ID: <431FF265.AFB3BEAD@teksavvy.com>  c http://news.com.com/Hurd+offers+just+a+glimpse+of+HP+strategy/2100-7342_3-5853144.html?tag=nefd.top   F Hurd provided a general overview if his plans. More details to come on$ Dec 13th in a meeting with analysts.   ##A HP's overarching game plan, Hurd said, is to be an infrastructure H technology company, using its vast research and development resources toD collectively serve as a foil against competitor Dell. HP would leave: IBM, meanwhile, to focus on business processing, he said.   G "These are very different companies. A lot of IBM's work is in business H processing, whereas HP is about technology and R&D...We spend a lot moreG on R&D than Dell," Hurd said, in response to investors' questions about D whether HP felt sandwiched between the other two industry titans. AsD Hurd spoke, however, it was hard to ignore the fact that HP cut fourD research projects and laid off one its R&D luminaries as part of its restructuring.   ##     ##E In assessing which businesses to keep, which ones to divest and which G ones to reallocate resources to, Hurd said, the plan is to avoid making F the more successful business units carry the weight for those that are less successful.    E "With a blended company, a strange dynamic occurs," Hurd said. "If it E looks like you're going to be short one quarter (in hitting financial F targets), you call up that business that's doing well and you ask themH to do better...and the businesses that aren't performing aren't asked toH do better. You need to restructure where it's needed. You shouldn't hurtA the businesses that have the best opportunity for the long run."   ##     ##C "People say the PC business is a disaster, but when you look at the D numbers, it's not like that," he said. He added the company needs toB expand the profit margins of its PC business, rather than focus on creating a larger business.  ##   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Sep 2005 06:39:46 -0500 B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)1 Subject: Re: Hurd to detail strategic plan Dec 13 3 Message-ID: <yrDNk+KjMzXJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <431FF265.AFB3BEAD@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:e > http://news.com.com/Hurd+offers+just+a+glimpse+of+HP+strategy/2100-7342_3-5853144.html?tag=nefd.top  > H > Hurd provided a general overview if his plans. More details to come on& > Dec 13th in a meeting with analysts. >  > ##C > HP's overarching game plan, Hurd said, is to be an infrastructure J > technology company, using its vast research and development resources toF > collectively serve as a foil against competitor Dell. HP would leaveF                                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^< > IBM, meanwhile, to focus on business processing, he said. ;   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^   G I went and read this article just to make sure that JF was not omitting I information to order to promote an agenda, and that Hurd really is quoted  as saying that.   8 Hurd really is quoted as saying that in the article. :-(   Goodbye VMS. :-(  F Given the comment about Dell, it appears that he wants to turn HP into a box shifter.   > I > "These are very different companies. A lot of IBM's work is in business J > processing, whereas HP is about technology and R&D...We spend a lot moreI > on R&D than Dell," Hurd said, in response to investors' questions about C > whether HP felt sandwiched between the other two industry titans.   G This comment is unbelievable. How can you compare the kind of R&D that  J HP does (or did) with the kind of stuff that Dell does. Also, what does heI think IBM's R&D labs does (assuming that he even knows that they exist) ?   3 HP Labs (Old version): Unique, innovative research. L HP Labs (New version): Determining new keyboard buttons and product colours.   Simon.   --  B Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       7 Microsoft: The Standard Oil Company of the 21st century    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 12:59:39 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>1 Subject: Re: Hurd to detail strategic plan Dec 13 ; Message-ID: <%AWTe.7187$k22.4391@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>    Simon Clubley wrote:   > : > Hurd really is quoted as saying that in the article. :-(  I Yes. He seems to be saying he wants to make the company another Dell and  F not compete with IBM in the enterprise. In which case it's goodbye to E the entire business critical division - let alone VMS.  No wonder he  G doesn't care if Intel drop the Itanic. He's interested in printers and  I PCs. Or else "business processing" means something different to the rest  ! of the world in "CEO" vocabulary.    > Goodbye VMS. :-( > H > Given the comment about Dell, it appears that he wants to turn HP into > a box shifter. >  > I >>"These are very different companies. A lot of IBM's work is in business J >>processing, whereas HP is about technology and R&D...We spend a lot moreI >>on R&D than Dell," Hurd said, in response to investors' questions about C >>whether HP felt sandwiched between the other two industry titans.  >  > I > This comment is unbelievable. How can you compare the kind of R&D that  L > HP does (or did) with the kind of stuff that Dell does. Also, what does heK > think IBM's R&D labs does (assuming that he even knows that they exist) ?  > 5 > HP Labs (Old version): Unique, innovative research. N > HP Labs (New version): Determining new keyboard buttons and product colours. >  > Simon. >    --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:17:48 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> 1 Subject: RE: Hurd to detail strategic plan Dec 13 R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB6B263D@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message----- > From: Simon Clubley=20: > [mailto:clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP]=20! > Sent: September 8, 2005 7:40 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 3 > Subject: Re: Hurd to detail strategic plan Dec 13  >=20: > In article <431FF265.AFB3BEAD@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei=20( > <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > >=20@ > http://news.com.com/Hurd+offers+just+a+glimpse+of+HP+strategy/) > 2100-7342_3-5853144.html?tag=3Dnefd.top  > >=20B > > Hurd provided a general overview if his plans. More details=20 > to come on( > > Dec 13th in a meeting with analysts. > >=20 > > ##E > > HP's overarching game plan, Hurd said, is to be an infrastructure B > > technology company, using its vast research and development=20 > resources toH > > collectively serve as a foil against competitor Dell. HP would leaveH >                                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^@ > > IBM, meanwhile, to focus on business processing, he said.=20= >   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  >=20? > I went and read this article just to make sure that JF was=20  > not omitting= > information to order to promote an agenda, and that Hurd=20  > really is quoted > as saying that.  >=20: > Hurd really is quoted as saying that in the article. :-( >=20 > Goodbye VMS. :-( >=20H > Given the comment about Dell, it appears that he wants to turn HP into > a box shifter. >=20  	 [snip...]   
 Simon -=20  B Mark was talking about BPR - Business Process Re-engineering and IF personally am delighted to hear him say that. BPR is a whole differentF ball game that is extremely complex and ripe with internal politics on* the Cust side, legality, contracts etc.=20  D IBM acquired PWC a year or so ago and they are very focussed in that area.=20   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Sep 2005 06:20:32 -0700  From: bob@instantwhip.com 1 Subject: Re: Hurd to detail strategic plan Dec 13 C Message-ID: <1126185632.032113.240520@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   B and what is worse is he thinks pc's are a money maker and are here+ to stay when the exact opposite is true ...    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 14:01:21 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>1 Subject: Re: Hurd to detail strategic plan Dec 13 = Message-ID: <RuXTe.26770$2n6.11272@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>    Main, Kerry wrote:  D > Mark was talking about BPR - Business Process Re-engineering and IH > personally am delighted to hear him say that. BPR is a whole differentH > ball game that is extremely complex and ripe with internal politics on* > the Cust side, legality, contracts etc.   I Ok let's take your interpretation at face value then. From wikipedia key   targets for BPR:  I "    * Customer Friendly: One of the main goals of introducing BPR is to  D get a competitive edge and that can only be gained by providing the G customers more than what the others in the market are asking for. If a  I customer is looking for products tailored to their needs, for example: a  G car customized to the customers taste, then that car-maker would most  = probably gain more customers over the competition due to the   customization option. G      * Effectiveness: How effective is the product or service that the  F business or manufacturing company providing the customer? If whatever F product or service the business might be providing to the customer is D successful, then the customers would automatically want to buy that I product or service again. For example: Japanese made cars like Honda and  E Toyota, even though they are more expensive compared to the domestic  D cars, they are very reliable cars causing the customers to continue G going back to those brands for generations. This is something that the  B domestic brand automakers, like Ford and GM have not yet mastered.F      * Efficiency: How efficient is the company that is manufacturing H the product before introducing it to the market to maximize costs? This G is one of the key categories that I believe is more important than any  A others. If a manufacturing company can master the skill of being  D efficient then they can automatically be more customer friendly and ? effective. Efficiency is not just about being efficient at the  ? production floor level but the management level also has to be  G efficient. An example of only the production floor being efficient and  H not the management level would be the Japanese manufacturing companies. < Now they are going through turmoil to repair their problems. "   E So it's good to know HP are to stop concentrating on being "customer  E friendly, effective and efficient." Heck, it worked for Microsoft :-)   F > IBM acquired PWC a year or so ago and they are very focussed in that > area.  > 	 > Regards  >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultant  > HP Services Canada > Voice: 613-592-4660  > Fax: 613-591-4477  > kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom > (remove the DOT's and AT)  > 6 > OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 10:51:15 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> 1 Subject: RE: Hurd to detail strategic plan Dec 13 R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB6B264E@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----4 > From: Alan Greig [mailto:greigaln@netscape.net]=20" > Sent: September 8, 2005 10:01 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 3 > Subject: Re: Hurd to detail strategic plan Dec 13  >=20 >=20 >=20 > Main, Kerry wrote: >=20F > > Mark was talking about BPR - Business Process Re-engineering and I= > > personally am delighted to hear him say that. BPR is a=20  > whole different A > > ball game that is extremely complex and ripe with internal=20 
 > politics on . > > the Cust side, legality, contracts etc.=20 >=20? > Ok let's take your interpretation at face value then. From=20  > wikipedia key=20 > targets for BPR: >=20  
 [snip ...]  G BPR market is extremely, extremely tough and most of those in that game G have been struggling big time. Just look at the sale price for PWC from H when HP looked at acquiring them until the time IBM bought them. Even ifF one allows for the HP price to have been more than what it should haveD proposed, it is pretty evident that PWC was struggling big time when they were acquired by IBM.  C Most Customers I have dealt with actually have separate vendors for H those doing BPR vs infrastructure as it provides some isolation from one' area inappropriately feeding the other.    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 15:02:20 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>1 Subject: Re: Hurd to detail strategic plan Dec 13 = Message-ID: <0oYTe.26883$2n6.25010@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>    Main, Kerry wrote: =   E > Most Customers I have dealt with actually have separate vendors for J > those doing BPR vs infrastructure as it provides some isolation from one) > area inappropriately feeding the other.   I So in a major SAP bid, say, HP will bid the box and someone else will do  G the BPR. Who will you partner with? IBM who your CEO just said was the  & leader in the field? That should work.  D I see what you are saying Kerry, but it still looks to me like Hurd  wants to be a box shifter.     --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 11:57:28 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> 1 Subject: RE: Hurd to detail strategic plan Dec 13 R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB6B2657@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----4 > From: Alan Greig [mailto:greigaln@netscape.net]=20" > Sent: September 8, 2005 11:02 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 3 > Subject: Re: Hurd to detail strategic plan Dec 13  >=20 >=20 >=20 > Main, Kerry wrote: > =3D  >=20G > > Most Customers I have dealt with actually have separate vendors for < > > those doing BPR vs infrastructure as it provides some=20 > isolation from one+ > > area inappropriately feeding the other.  >=20@ > So in a major SAP bid, say, HP will bid the box and someone=20 > else will do=20 > > the BPR. Who will you partner with? IBM who your CEO just=20 > said was the=20 ( > leader in the field? That should work. >=20H > I see what you are saying Kerry, but it still looks to me like Hurd=20 > wants to be a box shifter. >=20   Think about what BPR is.=20   H "Mr. Customer - I know you have been in business 20+ years, but you needF to totally change the way you do your business, change this, adopt newC financial accounting processes, adopt new BOD governance processes, < change the way your traders handle stock trades, etc etc .."  ? Btw - SAP is a product choice to implement the results of a BPR ; engagement. HP is very much in the SAP consulting business.   C Imho, BPR is one of those areas that sounds great in theory, but is E really tough to be profitable since many Customers are taking more of A that responsibility on themselves. The typical USD$2K-$3k/day BPR D consultants get real expensive after awhile especially when you have teams of them in place.   C Application and database rationalization (including SAP, PeopleSoft F etc), integration, migration, upgrades, consolidation, virtualization,F data warehousing, enterprise architecture, storage, networking are allE prime IT "infrastructure" projects, so all Mark was saying is that he H thought the very high level BPR stuff would not be a prime focus for HP.E For those solutions requiring BPR as a component, HP would use one of ' its partners to jointly make proposals.   $ Imho, that's perfectly fine with me.   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 09:19:12 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 1 Subject: Re: Hurd to detail strategic plan Dec 13 ( Message-ID: <opswskyao1zgicya@hyrrokkin>  B Good time to short HPQ.  Very disappointing.  "You lead, follow orH get out of the way" Patton.  How on earth does he think they can compete" with Dell?  Look at their margins.  . On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 04:12:56 -0400, JF Mezei  % <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:   e > http://news.com.com/Hurd+offers+just+a+glimpse+of+HP+strategy/2100-7342_3-5853144.html?tag=nefd.top  > H > Hurd provided a general overview if his plans. More details to come on& > Dec 13th in a meeting with analysts. >  > ##C > HP's overarching game plan, Hurd said, is to be an infrastructure J > technology company, using its vast research and development resources toF > collectively serve as a foil against competitor Dell. HP would leave; > IBM, meanwhile, to focus on business processing, he said.  > I > "These are very different companies. A lot of IBM's work is in business J > processing, whereas HP is about technology and R&D...We spend a lot moreI > on R&D than Dell," Hurd said, in response to investors' questions about F > whether HP felt sandwiched between the other two industry titans. AsF > Hurd spoke, however, it was hard to ignore the fact that HP cut fourF > research projects and laid off one its R&D luminaries as part of its > restructuring. > ## >  >  > ##G > In assessing which businesses to keep, which ones to divest and which I > ones to reallocate resources to, Hurd said, the plan is to avoid making H > the more successful business units carry the weight for those that are > less successful. > G > "With a blended company, a strange dynamic occurs," Hurd said. "If it G > looks like you're going to be short one quarter (in hitting financial H > targets), you call up that business that's doing well and you ask themJ > to do better...and the businesses that aren't performing aren't asked toJ > do better. You need to restructure where it's needed. You shouldn't hurtB > the businesses that have the best opportunity for the long run." > ## >  >  > ##E > "People say the PC business is a disaster, but when you look at the F > numbers, it's not like that," he said. He added the company needs toD > expand the profit margins of its PC business, rather than focus on > creating a larger business.  > ##   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 16:23:57 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>1 Subject: Re: Hurd to detail strategic plan Dec 13 ; Message-ID: <xAZTe.8036$k22.2626@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>    Main, Kerry wrote:   >  > J > "Mr. Customer - I know you have been in business 20+ years, but you needH > to totally change the way you do your business, change this, adopt newE > financial accounting processes, adopt new BOD governance processes, > > change the way your traders handle stock trades, etc etc .." > A > Btw - SAP is a product choice to implement the results of a BPR = > engagement. HP is very much in the SAP consulting business.   H Ah how silly of me. I see now. IBM come in and do the BPR for a Fortune G 500 company and recommend a SAP system from HP as part of the process.  E You commented earlier that HP's policy would prevent "inappropriate"  D interaction. But inappropriate from who's viewpoint? Not to mention A hindering appropriate interaction. Or that's what IBM will claim.    --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 13:12:53 -0400' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> 1 Subject: RE: Hurd to detail strategic plan Dec 13 R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB6B266C@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----4 > From: Alan Greig [mailto:greigaln@netscape.net]=20" > Sent: September 8, 2005 12:24 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 3 > Subject: Re: Hurd to detail strategic plan Dec 13  >=20 >=20 >=20 > Main, Kerry wrote: >=20 > >  > >=20B > > "Mr. Customer - I know you have been in business 20+ years,=20 > but you need= > > to totally change the way you do your business, change=20  > this, adopt new G > > financial accounting processes, adopt new BOD governance processes, @ > > change the way your traders handle stock trades, etc etc .." > >=20C > > Btw - SAP is a product choice to implement the results of a BPR ? > > engagement. HP is very much in the SAP consulting business.  >=20B > Ah how silly of me. I see now. IBM come in and do the BPR for=20 > a Fortune=20B > 500 company and recommend a SAP system from HP as part of the=20
 > process.=20 I > You commented earlier that HP's policy would prevent "inappropriate"=20 H > interaction. But inappropriate from who's viewpoint? Not to mention=20C > hindering appropriate interaction. Or that's what IBM will claim.  >=20 > --=20  > Alan Greig >=20   Alan,   ? You are missing the point as to how these things normally flow.   # 1. Customer decides on BPR partner.   @ 2. BPR partner does their 3-6 month engagement and comes up withF numerous recommendations e.g. steps on how to collapse 4 different ERPH systems into one global system. The BPR partner may or may not recommendH a product like SAP - depends on circumstances. I suspect red flags wouldD be raised all over the place if the BPR partner formerly recommendedE specific products from any vendor. They were hired for their strategy E and business process skills - not their hardware product preferences.   F 3. Customer decides to do SAP and Oracle DB and then releases RFP to aH number of vendors. The BPR partner may be one of those companies the RFPD is sent to, but with many Cust's, they would not send the SAP RFP to their BPR partner.  + 4. RFP responses are evaluated by Customer.   ; 5. Vendor is notified of success/failure of their proposal.    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Sep 2005 12:14:44 -0500 B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley)1 Subject: RE: Hurd to detail strategic plan Dec 13 3 Message-ID: <tfzYBQTYcVc0@eisner.encompasserve.org>   | In article <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB6B2657@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes: > E > Application and database rationalization (including SAP, PeopleSoft H > etc), integration, migration, upgrades, consolidation, virtualization,H > data warehousing, enterprise architecture, storage, networking are allG > prime IT "infrastructure" projects, so all Mark was saying is that he J > thought the very high level BPR stuff would not be a prime focus for HP.G > For those solutions requiring BPR as a component, HP would use one of ) > its partners to jointly make proposals.  > & > Imho, that's perfectly fine with me. >   K That's fine and it's nice to know that he apparently meant BPR, but someone J needs to tell him that for future reference "business processing" does NOT* mean BPR to many computer professionals...  E My other comments about HP thinking that Dell is the competition (and M the concerns that it will have on HP innovation and R&D) still stand however.   G BTW, are you absolutely certain that Hurd was talking about BPR and not  high end business computing ?    Simon.   --  B Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       7 Microsoft: The Standard Oil Company of the 21st century    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 17:23:35 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>1 Subject: Re: Hurd to detail strategic plan Dec 13 ; Message-ID: <rs_Te.8278$k22.6867@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>    Main, Kerry wrote:  A > You are missing the point as to how these things normally flow.   E I am intentionally missing the point on how someone *not* in the BPR  A business would want them to flow. IBM presumably think their BPR  - business will dove-tail with the IT business.   H I know all about business procurement processes thank you very much. In F reality many I have been involved in were destined one way right from 7 the start - then comes the (err...) creative paperwork.    --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Sep 2005 11:47:38 +0100 K From: pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40) 4 Subject: Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64! Message-ID: <hKG17Abt$0xh@sinead>   a In article <C%JTe.12053$4%5.11091@news.cpqcorp.net>, "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes:  >  [...] < > No.  Even Linux isn't "really" targeted at the laptop - or9 > really even at the generic desktop (or high-performance 4 > graphics).  The place it's making money for people$ > (other than RedHat) is in servers. [...] : > It takes a truly committed Linux guy to run Linux on his: > laptop.  Instead of an appliance (Windows on the Laptop)5 > it needs all the care and feeding needed by a Linux ) > expert (and you had better become one).   M Hum, I'm far from a Linux expert, but I've managed to install Debian on dual  N boot on one of my laptops (an Armada E500 PIII 850 Mhz) from a Knoppix livecd N and it works really great. I even have more recent versions of ImageMagick and XV than on my VMS DS10 ...  O Linux is not really more difficult to install than VMS (one exception, you need  to partition your hard disk).    Patrick  --O =============================================================================== N pmoreau@ath.cena.fr              ______      ___   _          (Patrick MOREAU)4 DSNA/DTI/SDER (ex CENA)         / /   /     / /|  /|J Athis-Mons France              / /___/     / / | / |   __   __   __   __  N BP 205                        / /         / /  |/  |  |  | |__| |__  |__| |  |N 94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX    / /   ::    / /       |  |__| | \  |__  |  | |__|N http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/              http://membres.lycos.fr/pmoreau/O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Sep 2005 14:31:52 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)4 Subject: Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA64+ Message-ID: <3ob0aoF53q53U2@individual.net>   4 In article <54YTe.12098$kw6.11820@news.cpqcorp.net>,- 	"FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes:  > , > Most Windows users couldn't install VMS.    , Most computer experts couldn't install VMS.   = >                                          Most windows users 8 > wouldn't know a dual boot from a hole in the ground.    > Which is why they have VirtualPC.  I gave up on dual boot ages9 ago.  What good is an OS on your disk that isn't running?   C >                                                       Linux isn't B > user friendly, it is designed by computing priests, for computer > geeks.   A Get seriuos.  Grade school kids are installing and running Linux. C It was designed by a child, not "computing priests".  Do you really - know so little about where Linux came from?       bill     --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 8 Sep 2005 12:24:56 -0500 - From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 4 Subject: Re: Microsoft to limit Windows apps on IA643 Message-ID: <WI8R4MI7ugOc@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <3ob0aoF53q53U2@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:6 > In article <54YTe.12098$kw6.11820@news.cpqcorp.net>,/ > 	"FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes:  >>  - >> Most Windows users couldn't install VMS.    > . > Most computer experts couldn't install VMS.    I find that hard to believe.  C Perhaps they would have trouble using it effectively or managing it ' when done, but installation is trivial.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 10:00:39 +0200  From: S <soterroatyahoodotcom> Subject: Re: pws 500au problems & Message-ID: <431fefa4$1@news1.ethz.ch>   Peter Huybrechts wrote: + > but this seems to be an a-series model... < > Do you know if this can be upgraded to work with OpenVMS ?  H I understand that with the above tricks you were able to select the SRM # console, so the first step is done. H You've only left now to solve the possible unsupported hardware issues, H start with the OpenVMS FAQ around section 14.4.4. Nothing is guaranteed  to work though, so good luck :)    HTH  S    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 08:25:57 -0700 ! From: Crabs <Crabs@ihatespam.com>  Subject: Re: pws 500au problems / Message-ID: <49ednc2Bs-Kbxb3eRVn-sw@sunset.net>   H > The difference between A and AU or Miata and Miata GL were two that I  > can  think of,G > The GL remebers the state of the power switch after interruption and  
 > will  power C > itself backup assuming AUTO_ACTION is set to restart  and GL had   > onboard  SCSI. Tom:  A Although correct in a sense, your above statement isn't accurate. C There were two versions of the PWS, the Miata MX5 and the Miata GL. F Both variants came in the "A" (intended for Windoze/Linux market) and G the "AU" (intended for the Unix/VMS market).  The MX5 "A" and the "AU"  I didn't have the automatic startup feature your mentioned, nor did either  I version have the onboard SCSI. The processor used in the systems was the  F EV5. The "A" variants were configured with SCSI cards and Video cards I that weren't recognized by SRM which makes them useless for Unix or VMS.  C They are quite easily changed, however, to make them SRM compliant.   F In most cases, the Miata-GL "A" & "AU" versions had the onboard SCSI, I however I have seen "A" variants without it. The "-GL" variant is easily  D recognized by the USB ports just below the serial ports (which were C unsupported by VMS(the USB ports that is)). The processor in these  F systems was the EV56 which IMHO makes these systems faster than their I "MX5" brothers. I've read in a few places that the onboard SCSI was just  D for the CDRom, but I've used it for both the CDRom and HD's with no * problems, so it must just be urban legend.   TomC   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Sep 2005 03:11:04 -0700  From: "Bendix" <br@b-riis.dk> 7 Subject: VAX OpenVMS 7.1 and TCP/IP 5.1 startup problem C Message-ID: <1126174264.027914.287220@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>    Running 2 VAXen in cluster.  VAX #1 runs VMS v5.5-2$ VAX #2 runs VMS v7.1 with TCPIP v5.17 Common SYSUAF.DAT, Rightslist.dat etc. exists on VAX #1 F As far as I can see all the TCPIP$.. usernames exist in the sysuaf.datF When starting any tcpip services on VAX #2 I get an error like the one below. Can anyone help me.    BendixE ---------------------------------------------------------------------   )         PORTMAPPER configuration options:   0                  1 - Enable service on all nodes0                  2 - Enable service on this node  8                  3 - Enable & Start service on this node  3                 [E] - Exit PORTMAPPER configuration    Enter configuration option: 3 > %TCPIP-I-INFO, image SYS$SYSTEM:TCPIP$PORTMAPPER.EXE installed6 %TCPIP-E-STARTERROR, error starting PORTMAPPER service7 -TCPIP-E-BADVALUE, value Service User_name is incorrect  -RMS-E-RNF, record not found6 %TCPIP-E-STARTERROR, error starting PORTMAPPER service -RMS-E-RNF, record not found6 %TCPIP-E-STARTERROR, error starting PORTMAPPER service7 -TCPIP-E-BADVALUE, value Service User_name is incorrect  -RMS-E-RNF, record not found6 %TCPIP-E-STARTERROR, error starting PORTMAPPER service -RMS-E-RNF, record not found4 %TCPIP-E-STARTFAIL, failed to start TCPIP$PORTMAPPER) -TCPIP-E-ENABLERR, error enabling service  Press Return to continue ...   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 11:43:23 -0400% From: "Lucy Tao" <lucyrtao@gmail.com> ; Subject: Re: VAX OpenVMS 7.1 and TCP/IP 5.1 startup problem / Message-ID: <zdKdnRCq5MS-wb3eRVn-iQ@rogers.com>   M Does all the TCP service set up on VAX#1, I'm thinking that  you set them up  . on VAX#1 and trying to start it up from VAX#2.  
 Let me know..     ) "Bendix" <br@b-riis.dk> wrote in message  = news:1126174264.027914.287220@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...  > Running 2 VAXen in cluster.  > VAX #1 runs VMS v5.5-2& > VAX #2 runs VMS v7.1 with TCPIP v5.19 > Common SYSUAF.DAT, Rightslist.dat etc. exists on VAX #1 H > As far as I can see all the TCPIP$.. usernames exist in the sysuaf.datH > When starting any tcpip services on VAX #2 I get an error like the one > below. > Can anyone help me.  >  > BendixG > ---------------------------------------------------------------------  > * >        PORTMAPPER configuration options: > 1 >                 1 - Enable service on all nodes 1 >                 2 - Enable service on this node  > 9 >                 3 - Enable & Start service on this node  > 4 >                [E] - Exit PORTMAPPER configuration >  > Enter configuration option: 3 @ > %TCPIP-I-INFO, image SYS$SYSTEM:TCPIP$PORTMAPPER.EXE installed8 > %TCPIP-E-STARTERROR, error starting PORTMAPPER service9 > -TCPIP-E-BADVALUE, value Service User_name is incorrect  > -RMS-E-RNF, record not found8 > %TCPIP-E-STARTERROR, error starting PORTMAPPER service > -RMS-E-RNF, record not found8 > %TCPIP-E-STARTERROR, error starting PORTMAPPER service9 > -TCPIP-E-BADVALUE, value Service User_name is incorrect  > -RMS-E-RNF, record not found8 > %TCPIP-E-STARTERROR, error starting PORTMAPPER service > -RMS-E-RNF, record not found6 > %TCPIP-E-STARTFAIL, failed to start TCPIP$PORTMAPPER+ > -TCPIP-E-ENABLERR, error enabling service  > Press Return to continue ... >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:16:16 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com% Subject: Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX Q Message-ID: <OFB88A3B4E.9A3B212C-ON85257075.0058FD81-85257076.0048E6CC@metso.com>   > "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> wrote on 09/07/2005 11:38:33 AM:  H > On Wed, 7 Sep 2005 08:53:05 -0600, Jim MacKenzie <jim@dusykbarlow.sk.= ca>    > wrote: > H > > "Appendices" is far more common than "appendixes" in my corner of t= he
 > > world.D > > "Appendixes" implies the organ; "appendices" implies the adjunct chapter. > C > Indexes and indices are both correct but have different meanings.    I grok that not.  H My dictionary references both forms as plural of index, although at 4 i= t B expresses a preference for the latin for when used mathematically.  ! What are your different meanings?    Main Entry: in=B7dex Pronunciation: 'in-"deks Function: nounC Inflected Form(s): plural in=B7dex=B7es or in=B7di=B7ces /-d&-"sEz/ 9 Etymology: Latin indic-, index, from indicare to indicate H 1 a : a device (as the pointer on a scale or the gnomon of a sundial) t= hat H serves to indicate a value or quantity b : something (as a physical fea= tureH or a mode of expression) that leads one to a particular fact or conclus= ion  : INDICATIONH 2 : a list (as of bibliographical information or citations to a body of=  H literature) arranged usually in alphabetical order of some specified da= tum F (as author, subject, or keyword): as a : a list of items (as topics orH names) treated in a printed work that gives for each item the page numb= erH where it may be found b : THUMB INDEX c : a bibliographical analysis of=  = groups of publications that is usually published periodically H 3 : a list of restricted or prohibited material; specifically capitaliz= ed :H a list of books the reading of which is prohibited or restricted for Ro= man # Catholics by the church authorities B 4 plural usually indices : a number or symbol or expression (as anH exponent) associated with another to indicate a mathematical operation = to= be performed or to indicate use or position in an arrangement H 5 : a character <fist> used to direct attention to a note or paragraph = -- called also fistH 6 a : a number (as a ratio) derived from a series of observations and u= sed H as an indicator or measure; specifically : INDEX NUMBER b : the ratio o= f H one dimension of a thing (as an anatomical structure) to another dimens= ion  =    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Sep 2005 06:42:55 -0700 3 From: "Big John" <john.powers@airwidesolutions.com> % Subject: Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX B Message-ID: <1126186975.791334.50000@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  E Well, now the discussion has evolved, we seem to be arguing about the D plural of Xerox! I can handle that. I guess if I go into a butcher'sF shop and keep taking several Xerox copies of each piece of meat on the; slab, I will eventually end of with 'Xeroces of the liver'.    Sorry, John      Jim MacKenzie wrote:0 > "WhoDat?" <whohe@whoever.com> wrote in message? > news:1126038168.027073.132160@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... F > > The English language follows definite rules. The vernacular use ofJ > > English might bend or break a rule, but a rule stands until sufficientE > > recognized authorities agree upon a change. Trademarks are proper D > > adjectives and follow the English language rules for adjectives. > N > This might be technically true, but I know of no one who says Kleenex facialK > tissues, Xerox photocopying machines, or DeskJet inkjet printers.  I like L > Mazdas; I don't need to say "Mazda automobiles".  We use trademarks in theH > plural all the time in English.  If it's not technically correct, it's  > acquired de facto correctness. >  > Jim    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Sep 2005 09:22:49 -0700 # From: "WhoDat?" <whohe@whoever.com> % Subject: Re: VAXen as a plural of VAX C Message-ID: <1126196569.097315.268910@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   
 AEF wrote: > WhoDat? wrote:! > > norm.raph...@metso.com wrote: D > > > "WhoDat?" <whohe@whoever.com> wrote on 09/06/2005 12:55:37 PM: > > >   > > > > Tim ffrench-Lynch wrote:P > > > > > Is VAXen a well enough established plural of VAX to use in a technical > > > > > document? 	 > > > > > 
 > > > > > Tim  > > > >  > [...]  > > K > > Fish is a noun. One can use it as a verb, too. Fish is not a trademark. G > > It is a "real" word. It is in common usage and can't be trademarked I > > except as part of a "made-up" phrase. Trademarks are made-up words or H > > acronyms and are proper adjectives used to describe a noun. VAX is aJ > > word "made-up" by Digital Equipment Corporation to describe a specific > > type of computer.  > > N > > > This has nothing to do with proper adjectives, and everything to do with5 > > > English usage - which follows no rule for long.  > > >  > > F > > The English language follows definite rules. The vernacular use ofJ > > English might bend or break a rule, but a rule stands until sufficientE > > recognized authorities agree upon a change. Trademarks are proper D > > adjectives and follow the English language rules for adjectives. > D > Well, there is some disagreement about some of the rules. Ending aH > sentence with a preposition is one of them. Splitting an infinitive isI > another (To boldly go where no man has gone before, e.g.). Just who are   > your "recognized authorities"? >   E Dionysius Thrax would be one, and he probably won't change any of his  rules;-)  = I accept the authorities recognized by the Great and Powerful G Institutions of Higher Learning. Pick your favorite. If you're going to E school, it's your teacher/professor. If you're writing for a magazine D or newspaper, it's your editor. If you're just a techie, as I am, itD might be "The Anti-Pedantic's Guide to Technical Writing; The art ofG explaining things to people who don't really care" (Johnson & Freidman,  Plasma Press,(c)2175).  D   ==================================================================@    "There is a fuzzy line between interesting and weird. In fact=     there are fuzzy lines between many things and I find that 9     interesting to a point, but then it just gets weird."       (WhoHe)   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.502 ************************