1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 10 Sep 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 506       Contents:9 Re: Former Intel chief architect (P4) shoots from the hip 9 Re: Former Intel chief architect (P4) shoots from the hip  Re: HP Forum location  Re: HP Forum location  Re: HP Forum location 8 Re: HP Technology Forum 2005 Rescheduled October 17 - 20( Re: Hurd to detail strategic plan Dec 13 i need to buy a vax 11/780 Re: Macro code/ Re: OT: Dell queitly remove all Itanium servers % Postings  (was Re: HP Forum location) ) Re: Postings  (was Re: HP Forum location) + Re: Wget 1.10.1a (less preliminary) exists. + Re: Wget 1.10.1a (less preliminary) exists.   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:39:40 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>B Subject: Re: Former Intel chief architect (P4) shoots from the hip< Message-ID: <guAUe.20547$fb.18644@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>   Neil Rieck wrote:    >  > J >  Bob Colwell, Intel chief architect of Intel's IA32 microprocessors fromE > 1992-2000, gave a talk about what being an architect was all about. L > Even though Colwell was not directly involved in the design and managementN > of the Itanium project, he obviously wasn't totally unaware of the goings on% > and challenges with that processor.  > M > Being no longer employed by Intel, Colwell felt free to give an unvarnished 7 > account of his experiences - including the political.   F Interesting isn't it that he describes Alpha as the best architecture @ and fundamentally superior to Itanium. You can just imagine the E political arguments that took place inside Intel - probably made the  & stuff here look like polite debate :-)  H > This 90 minute talk is an education. So be prepared to be entertained. > H > http://stanford-online.stanford.edu/courses/ee380/040218-ee380-100.asx >  >  > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  > Ontario, Canada.# > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/  >  >    --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:51:17 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> B Subject: Re: Former Intel chief architect (P4) shoots from the hip9 Message-ID: <XEAUe.25815$vN.919556@news20.bellglobal.com>   6 "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net> wrote in message 6 news:guAUe.20547$fb.18644@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk... >  >  [...snip...] > L > Interesting isn't it that he describes Alpha as the best architecture and H > fundamentally superior to Itanium. You can just imagine the political M > arguments that took place inside Intel - probably made the stuff here look   > like polite debate :-) >  > --   > Alan Greig  G Yes. And since he is no longer employed by Intel, you know that we are  J getting a glimpse of the truth sans marketecture hype. I was surprised my A his comments on the limitations of the "server-only marketplace".   
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/    ------------------------------    Date: 10 Sep 2005 07:04:07 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: HP Forum location3 Message-ID: <hlPJ4ZgwMzbH@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <nirUe.12391$aD7.9277@news.cpqcorp.net>, "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes: > 7 > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message ' > news:3oeqvvF5ll0iU1@individual.net... ( >> In article <kAoUe.94$R9.41@trnddc02>,6 >> "Ken Randell" <kenneth.randell@verizon.net> writes: >> > Try Orlando October 17-20.  >>E >> The humidity in Orlando is miserable most of the year.  I remember C >> going there in March once when I was working for Martin Marietta A >> (do they still have that big complex in the soutwest corner of B >> the city?) and it was to uncomfortable to even swim in the pool >> until nearly 11:00 PM.  >> > E > October is a great time of year.   In fact, later October is nearly D > the ideal time to visit.  The 54 straight days of 90+ weather justC > broke last week, and the temperatures will start to moderate over  > the next 6 weeks.  > @ > Disney will be having their International Food & Wine Festival> > at Epcot - I'm already set for the Brewers Dinner, and Sake,, > Sushi, and Sashimi.  Get reservations now. > > > I *hear* if you show your badge at Mission Space, there is a; > private entrance/lounge for HP employees - and a shortcut  > through the lines. > B > Bring your clubs - lot's of good golfing.  The Disney Classic is@ > the 17th-23rd - Tiger is supposed to be there.  Heck - splurge> > for a night and stay at the Inn at the Bay Hill CC (Arnold's& > course) and you can play the course. > = > Then head on over to Ron Jon's surf shop in Cocoa Beach and . > learn to surf.  Or the Kennedy Space Center. > ; > The Orange County Convention Center is a large, sprawling E > complex just off of the Beeline, on the south east part of Orlando. > > About a 20 minute ride or so (depending on traffic and local? > knowledge ;-) from Disney.  Walking distance (sort of) to Sea 5 > World.  About 40 minutes to Cocoa Beach.  Somewhere : > between that and an hour to Daytona.  About 2 hours from> > Tampa.  About 10 minutes to Universal.  There is night life,= > good food, and good drinking all within walking distance of   > the main hotels at the center. >  > I'll bring the cigars ;-)  > - > How is that for playing tourism booster ;-)   C I don't know how to tell you this, Fred, but other sources indicate 1 there will be computer discussions down there :-)    ------------------------------   Date: 10 Sep 2005 13:16:08 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: HP Forum location+ Message-ID: <3og4koF5qispU1@individual.net>   3 In article <nirUe.12391$aD7.9277@news.cpqcorp.net>, - 	"FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes:  > 7 > "Bill Gunshannon" <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote in message ' > news:3oeqvvF5ll0iU1@individual.net... ( >> In article <kAoUe.94$R9.41@trnddc02>,6 >> "Ken Randell" <kenneth.randell@verizon.net> writes: >> > Try Orlando October 17-20.  >>E >> The humidity in Orlando is miserable most of the year.  I remember C >> going there in March once when I was working for Martin Marietta A >> (do they still have that big complex in the soutwest corner of B >> the city?) and it was to uncomfortable to even swim in the pool >> until nearly 11:00 PM.  >> > E > October is a great time of year.   In fact, later October is nearly D > the ideal time to visit.  The 54 straight days of 90+ weather justC > broke last week, and the temperatures will start to moderate over  > the next 6 weeks.  > @ > Disney will be having their International Food & Wine Festival> > at Epcot - I'm already set for the Brewers Dinner, and Sake,, > Sushi, and Sashimi.  Get reservations now. > > > I *hear* if you show your badge at Mission Space, there is a; > private entrance/lounge for HP employees - and a shortcut  > through the lines. > B > Bring your clubs - lot's of good golfing.  The Disney Classic is@ > the 17th-23rd - Tiger is supposed to be there.  Heck - splurge> > for a night and stay at the Inn at the Bay Hill CC (Arnold's& > course) and you can play the course. > = > Then head on over to Ron Jon's surf shop in Cocoa Beach and . > learn to surf.  Or the Kennedy Space Center. > ; > The Orange County Convention Center is a large, sprawling E > complex just off of the Beeline, on the south east part of Orlando. > > About a 20 minute ride or so (depending on traffic and local? > knowledge ;-) from Disney.  Walking distance (sort of) to Sea 5 > World.  About 40 minutes to Cocoa Beach.  Somewhere : > between that and an hour to Daytona.  About 2 hours from> > Tampa.  About 10 minutes to Universal.  There is night life,= > good food, and good drinking all within walking distance of   > the main hotels at the center. >  > I'll bring the cigars ;-)  > - > How is that for playing tourism booster ;-)    D Silly me.  When my boss pays for me to go to a conference I actually attend the sessions.  :-)    bill     --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 07:58:31 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: Re: HP Forum location( Message-ID: <opswv6jtvjzgicya@hyrrokkin>  K On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 02:12:35 GMT, FredK <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> wrote:   B > Bring your clubs - lot's of good golfing.  The Disney Classic is@ > the 17th-23rd - Tiger is supposed to be there.  Heck - splurge> > for a night and stay at the Inn at the Bay Hill CC (Arnold's& > course) and you can play the course.  = What is your HDCP, Fred?  When are youi plannig to retire?:-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:38:32 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>A Subject: Re: HP Technology Forum 2005 Rescheduled October 17 - 20 + Message-ID: <43230C08.4C91CAD9@comcast.net>   " susan_skonetski@hotmail.com wrote: >  > ----Original Message-----  > From: Skonetski, Susan+ > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:23 PM  > To: Skonetski, SusanH > Subject: HP Technology Forum 2005 Rescheduled October 17 - 20 - OK for > external use >  > Dear Distribution Lists, > 8 > The following is ok for distribution and external use. >  > Warm Regards,  > Sue  > ) >  ----------Forwarded message ---------- ' > Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 17:09:20 -0600 % > From: support@hptechnologyforum.com ? > Subject: HP Technology Forum 2005 Rescheduled October 17 - 20 2 > To: Michelle Popejoy <popejoy@Encompasserve.org> > Dear Michelle: > H > The HP Technology Forum, originally planned for September 12-15 in NewF > Orleans, has been rescheduled. The event will now take place October > 17-20 = > at the Orange County Convention Center in Orlando, Florida.  > F > The forum will go forward with the same elements: technical trainingI > sessions, hands-on labs, Technology Exchange and HP Solutions Showcase.  > We- > sincerely hope you will join us in Orlando.  > G > If you have ticketed airline reservations to New Orleans, act now. To F > retain the value of your tickets, please refer to the airline ticket@ > refund and re-ticketing information list compiled by HP Travel > HeadquartersI > on http://www.hptechnologyforum.com and reschedule your air travel now.  > ( > Registration re-opens on September 16.H > To confirm your registration and arrange for new hotel accommodations,F > please go to http://www.hptechnologyforum.com beginning on September > 16.  > * > For the latest information, please visit" > http://www.hptechnologyforum.com  H T'will be interesting to see if they provide a new presentation templateA for speakers, or if we are asked to keep the New Orleans one as a 7 memorial to those who lost their lives in this tragedy.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:15:09 +0200 & From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>1 Subject: Re: Hurd to detail strategic plan Dec 13 + Message-ID: <3ofmgtF5ikruU1@individual.net>    Dave Froble wrote: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > 3 >> In article <11i1ud05rcvvm6e@corp.supernews.com>, 0 >>     Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: >>F >>> You might get the idea that I don't think much of the "never done ? >>> anything, know everything" consultants, and you'd be right.  >> >> >>> >> Gee, I feel the same way about some (most!) academics.  :-) >> >> bill  >> > E > I've heard it said, those who can, do, those who can't, teach.  Or   > write.  Or are consultants.  > 2 ... and those who can't teach become lecturers ...   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 20:36:39 -0400* From: "d b turner" <dbturner@islandco.com># Subject: i need to buy a vax 11/780 3 Message-ID: <ubEUe.83$906.8@bignews4.bellsouth.net>   : please call 912-4476622 if you have a working one for sale   david    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 10:33:23 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>  Subject: Re: Macro code ; Message-ID: <F8CUe.20345$I02.1330216@news20.bellglobal.com>   ; "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message  & news:4320F2D5.253EE737@teksavvy.com... [...snip...]J > Back then, compiler salesmen were trying to convince potential customersF > of the how much better it was to use a 2G versus assembler. "Look, 3G > lines of cobol code will replace about 70 lines of asembler, think of 4 > how much more efficient your programmers will be". > F > Today, you are comparing 3G and 3G languages against each other, not > against assembly language. >  [...snip...] > G > There are occasions where the programmer really needs to know how the B > compiler behaves because it isn't obvious. So you either look atI > generated assembler code if you know that platform's assembly language, F > or you write a small test program that garantees that your contructsF > behave exactly as desired. (consider alignment issues, bit shifting, > endianness etc.  > C > Because compilers now optimize code, and because much weird stuff A > happens to take advantage of the chip's architecture, generated - > assembler may not be so easy to understand.  >   H I agree. It is my belief that betters programmers, every so often, will K write small stubs of code and then run them through their compilers to see  K what comes out the back end. This way, you do the best job you can and the  2 optimizer will have better a product to work with.  "     $bas file.ext    /list/machine  L I also believe that working with assemblers on early CISC systems was a lot I like playing checkers. For the most part the rules were straight forward  G which meant that many more people were able to produce very tight code.   J Doing assembly on modern RISC systems with all their sometime-conflicting J non-intuitive features is more like playing chess with a grand master all H the time. A programmer on a good day with the right amount of sleep the A night before, an adequate amount of caffeine in the body, and no  H interruptions might produce some pretty good code. But the truth of the J matter is that we're expected to do more with less so we need to defer to 
 the complier.   H Another way to look at modern compilers is from a machine shop point of J view: someone first built a lathe from raw materials but that lathe meant L you could build other stuff faster and cheaper including other machine shop  tools.  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:51:27 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>8 Subject: Re: OT: Dell queitly remove all Itanium servers= Message-ID: <3NzUe.16740$k22.10151@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>    Keith Parris wrote:  > Alan Greig wrote:  > D >> Noticed today on the Dell website that they seem to have quietly ? >> retired  Itanium servers (well maybe a few factory refurbs.)  >  > ? > Are you sure it's not just a broken link on the Dell website?   G Fairly sure its not just a broken link. Try going to the Dell web site  G and selecting "Medium and Large Business" and see if it offers you any  H Itanium. It did just a few weeks ago but not any more. Interesting that A it is still offering some systems if you tell it you are a small  ( business or in education or in Canada...     --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:27:43 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> . Subject: Postings  (was Re: HP Forum location)( Message-ID: <opswv7whdrzgicya@hyrrokkin>  K Kerry, don't you have a newsreader?  Your responses are always out of order I on my newsreader (Opera) at least it doesn't associate the thread,  but    that$ may be a deficiency of my newsreader   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:56:25 +0200 & From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>2 Subject: Re: Postings  (was Re: HP Forum location)+ Message-ID: <3oge1aF5nvcaU1@individual.net>    Tom Linden wrote: M > Kerry, don't you have a newsreader?  Your responses are always out of order K > on my newsreader (Opera) at least it doesn't associate the thread,  but    > that& > may be a deficiency of my newsreader  C Looking at the message source, Kerry is using the VAX-INFO gateway.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:10:23 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> 4 Subject: Re: Wget 1.10.1a (less preliminary) exists.( Message-ID: <opswv63lx5zgicya@hyrrokkin>  < On Fri, 9 Sep 2005 17:26:50 -0500 (CDT), Steven M. Schweda   <sms@antinode.org> wrote:   + >      http://antinode.org/dec/sw/wget.html   > I see how it was built, but what are the minimum requirements?) such as VMS, Clib,  tcpip, anything else.    ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:54:13 -0500 (CDT) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)4 Subject: Re: Wget 1.10.1a (less preliminary) exists.2 Message-ID: <05091011541348_202003A2@antinode.org>  # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>   - > >      http://antinode.org/dec/sw/wget.html  > @ > I see how it was built, but what are the minimum requirements?+ > such as VMS, Clib,  tcpip, anything else.   G    That's a fair question.  Actually, VMS isn't required, though some C E RTL support is.  The code still includes the remains of an attempt to A accomodate some older Multinet stuff, but I assume that currently G TCPIP-emulation will work for everyone.  The only "anything else" which E leaps to mind is the (optional) SSL ("https://"), which, as the notes B say, seemed to work using HP SSL V1.1-B or OpenSSL version 0.9.7e.  H    Unlike the Info-ZIP programs, I haven't tried to build it on anythingF older than the latest Hobbyist kits (plus whatever's on the handy IA64A Test Drive system, where testing is limited by the network access  restrictions).  F    You and anyone else are welcome to let me know what goes wrong when? you find a combination which doesn't work.  I get an occasional H complaint about a bug, but it's been a long time since anyone complainedD about a build problem.  (And if you can build it, what else could go wrong?)   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.506 ************************