1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 14 Sep 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 513       Contents:  Re: EFI/console general question Re: Free VAXen (Salinas, CA) HP TCP/IP V5.4 and SSH Re: HP TCP/IP V5.4 and SSH Re: HP TCP/IP V5.4 and SSH Re: HP TCP/IP V5.4 and SSH Re: HP TCP/IP V5.4 and SSH Re: HP TCP/IP V5.4 and SSH Re: HP TCP/IP V5.4 and SSH Re: HP TCP/IP V5.4 and SSH Re: HP TCP/IP V5.4 and SSH Re: HP TCP/IP V5.4 and SSH Re: HP TCP/IP V5.4 and SSH* Re: HP to dump itanium - bring back alpha?* Re: HP to dump itanium - bring back alpha?) Re: HP to lay off 5,000 in France/Europe? ) Re: HP to lay off 5,000 in France/Europe? ) Re: HP to lay off 5,000 in France/Europe? ) Re: HP to lay off 5,000 in France/Europe?  Re: Itanium Solutions Alliance Re: Itanium Solutions Alliance Re: Itanium Solutions Alliance Re: Itanium Solutions Alliance: Need VT320 Terminal settings to hook up a MicroVax 3100-40- Re: OpenVMS  FTP server with these features ? - Re: OpenVMS  FTP server with these features ? - Re: OpenVMS  FTP server with these features ? - Re: OpenVMS  FTP server with these features ? , Re: OpenVMS FTP server with these features ?% Re: OT: Sun's quarterly announcements ! Retry: Itanium Solutions Alliance 6 Re: Storage Magazine: "HP Reloads" its storage arsenal6 Re: Storage Magazine: "HP Reloads" its storage arsenal6 [OpenVMS V7.3-2] ANA/DI/REP SYS$SYSDEVICE hangs system: Re: [OpenVMS V7.3-2] ANA/DI/REP SYS$SYSDEVICE hangs system: Re: [OpenVMS V7.3-2] ANA/DI/REP SYS$SYSDEVICE hangs system: Re: [OpenVMS V7.3-2] ANA/DI/REP SYS$SYSDEVICE hangs system  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 14 Sep 2005 05:03:57 GMT2 From: "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow>) Subject: Re: EFI/console general question ? Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-tdLwsNZxyex9@dave2_os2.home.ours>   F On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 22:41:46 UTC, "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> wrote:   > < > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message( > news:4325C771.CC41D374@teksavvy.com... > > FredK wrote:N > > > Microsoft is one of the main proponents of EFI along with Intel.  But toH > > > break the BIOS barrier takes a lot of coordination and convincing.
 > RememberN > > > that there is a small industry in BIOS, and a lot of historical baggage. > > K > > Is the reason Windows isn't supporting EFI with Longhorn more political  > > than technical ? > >  > H > I have no insight into MS.  If I were to guess, I would say that it is	 > because J > there is a complicated dance that needs to take place.  The BIOS is usedL > for far more than just booting - and I think the goal is to be BIOS-free - > there I > is a new driver model (graphics drivers in particular) that is aimed at   > eliminating Int10 for example. > / > > Could Windows be packaged to support both ?  > >  >  > Probably.  > I > > BIOS loads a boot block from a fixed disk location, is that correct ?  > >  >  > Block 0.  The MBR. > K > > EFI loads a boot-loader from a disk partition. So Windows could provide L > > a boot loader that then loads an alternate Windows boot block, one whichJ > > cooperates with EFI software during very early phases of boot. Is this > > theoretically possible ? > L > The design of the GUID Partition Table based disk is that block 0 contains > a legacy MBR.   C Complete with one of Hoff's (and my) beloved 'harmless signatures'   :-)??    --   Cheers - Dave W.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 05:39:59 GMT , From: FBSD_AS1200 <mail_list@mindspring.com>% Subject: Re: Free VAXen (Salinas, CA) @ Message-ID: <PIOVe.945$Gy3.715@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>   Frank Themann wrote:   > Hi!  > E > I am truly sorry, but I dont live in the California area, not even  > close to it :-)  > F > Would it be possible to get the VAX 4000 cards and drives shipped to2 > Gemany? I would pay for the shipping, of course. > 	 > Thanks,  >  > Frank Themann  >  >  > Javier Henderson schrieb:  > B >>I've a few VAXen that are be looking for a good home, all of the* >>equipment below is in working condition. >>B >>MicroVAX II in BA23, CPU, 16MB RAM, DELQA, and some random cards >>F >>MicroVAX II in BA123, CPU from a MicroVAX 3600, 16MB RAM, DELQA, and >>random cards >>3 >>MicroVAX II in BA123, CPU, and I forget the rest.  >>D >>VAX 4300/700, CPU, 48MB RAM, TK70, UC08, three drives, and for the. >>life of me I can't remember the size... 2GB? >> >>DS700  >>> >>Some random "90" bridges and the rackmount backplane thingy. >>F >>Pickup only in Salinas, CA, about an hour south of San Jose, CA. TheD >>stuff is at my hangar at the airport, if someone is looking for an& >>excuse to go flying, come on over... >>> >>Drop me an email if you're interested and we'll take it fromB >>there. It'd be great if you came and pick everything up at once. >> >>-jav?   Did anyone ever pick up the microvax systems? If not I am in  & Hawthorne, ca and would be interested.   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Sep 2005 17:46:48 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com  Subject: HP TCP/IP V5.4 and SSH + Message-ID: <dg73a802p9@enews4.newsguy.com>   K Strange question.  When I telnet into OpenVMS it gives me info such as last 1 login, and how many emails I have waiting for me.   I When I log in via SSH, I don't get any of this information, or the banner J contained in SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]WELCOME.TXT.  Is there any way to get this# displayed when logging in with ssh?    		Zane   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2005 13:35:06 -0700" From: "Jose Baars" <peut@peut.org># Subject: Re: HP TCP/IP V5.4 and SSH B Message-ID: <1126643706.889148.70070@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>   healyzh@aracnet.com wrote:M > Strange question.  When I telnet into OpenVMS it gives me info such as last 3 > login, and how many emails I have waiting for me.  > K > When I log in via SSH, I don't get any of this information, or the banner L > contained in SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]WELCOME.TXT.  Is there any way to get this% > displayed when logging in with ssh?  >  > 		Zane  D No. The ssh server starts a detached process on it's own, under your5 username, completely bypassing normal loginout stuff.  I don't like it either.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 13:46:37 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> # Subject: Re: HP TCP/IP V5.4 and SSH ( Message-ID: <opsw16nzh3zgicya@hyrrokkin>  @ On 13 Sep 2005 13:35:06 -0700, Jose Baars <peut@peut.org> wrote:   >  > healyzh@aracnet.com wrote:K >> Strange question.  When I telnet into OpenVMS it gives me info such as    >> last 4 >> login, and how many emails I have waiting for me. >>G >> When I log in via SSH, I don't get any of this information, or the   	 >> banner J >> contained in SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]WELCOME.TXT.  Is there any way to get   >> this & >> displayed when logging in with ssh? >>	 >> 		Zane  > F > No. The ssh server starts a detached process on it's own, under your7 > username, completely bypassing normal loginout stuff.  > I don't like it either.  > B Just out of curiosity, what happens if you telnet to yourself onceF you have logged in via SSH?  Does this defeat the purpose of SSH, i.e. does it create IP traffic?   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2005 23:07:43 +01006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)# Subject: Re: HP TCP/IP V5.4 and SSH , Message-ID: <43275bbf$1@news.langstoeger.at>  g In article <1126643706.889148.70070@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, "Jose Baars" <peut@peut.org> writes:  >healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: N >> Strange question.  When I telnet into OpenVMS it gives me info such as last4 >> login, and how many emails I have waiting for me. >>L >> When I log in via SSH, I don't get any of this information, or the bannerM >> contained in SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]WELCOME.TXT.  Is there any way to get this & >> displayed when logging in with ssh? > E >No. The ssh server starts a detached process on it's own, under your 6 >username, completely bypassing normal loginout stuff. >I don't like it either.  G Consider TCPware or PSC's SSH for OpenVMS. There it works (on VAX, too, J and for many years now). But I use TCPIP @work and hate this problem, too.  G btw: I also don't understand why TELNET and RLOGIN is (just like CTERM) 2 seen as REMOTE while SSH still insists on LOCAL...   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Sep 2005 21:35:09 GMT. From: JONESD@ecr6.ohio-state.edu (David Jones)# Subject: Re: HP TCP/IP V5.4 and SSH : Message-ID: <dg7gmd$pn6$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>  B In message <1126643706.889148.70070@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,'    "Jose Baars" <peut@peut.org> writes:  >healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: N >> Strange question.  When I telnet into OpenVMS it gives me info such as last4 >> login, and how many emails I have waiting for me. >>L >> When I log in via SSH, I don't get any of this information, or the bannerM >> contained in SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]WELCOME.TXT.  Is there any way to get this & >> displayed when logging in with ssh? >>	 >> 		Zane  > E >No. The ssh server starts a detached process on it's own, under your 6 >username, completely bypassing normal loginout stuff. >I don't like it either.  E It doesn't completely bypass it, just mostly so (e.g. it does execute K login command procedures).  The SSH V1 server I wrote had the same problem, M loginout.exe apparently assumes a pseudo-terminal login with prc$m_nopassword K is bound to a DECterm window which doesn't count as a new login.  I wrote a E special SSH_LOGINOUT.EXE to mimic the loginout actions missing on SSH M logins, add added a line in the sys$sylogin procedure to run it on SSH logins ( (logical SYS$REM_ID begins with "SSH_").    < David L. Jones               |      Phone:    (614) 271-6718- Ohio State University        |      Internet: L 140 W. 19th St.              |               jonesd@er6s1.eng.ohio-state.edu: Columbus, OH 43210           |               vman+@osu.edu  1 Disclaimer: I'm looking for marbles all day long.    ------------------------------   Date: 13 Sep 2005 22:22:12 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com # Subject: Re: HP TCP/IP V5.4 and SSH , Message-ID: <dg7jek0236u@enews1.newsguy.com>  " Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> wrote:D > Just out of curiosity, what happens if you telnet to yourself onceH > you have logged in via SSH?  Does this defeat the purpose of SSH, i.e. > does it create IP traffic?  H I would think that it would stay off the ethernet and talk to itself viaC loopback.  I just did a "set host 0" and got the expected behavior.   L Another irritating problem I've found is that if you 'ssh' in to the system,L you can't then 'ssh' to anther system.  This is a *LOT* more of an issue forG me.  I can telnet to another system, but this isn't very useful as most B systems no longer have telnet running (it also isn't very secure).   		Zane   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:59:24 -0400 % From: BRAD <bradhamilton@comcast.net> # Subject: Re: HP TCP/IP V5.4 and SSH 0 Message-ID: <VoCdnRKaUPJGxLreRVn-jA@comcast.com>   healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: <snip>N > Another irritating problem I've found is that if you 'ssh' in to the system,N > you can't then 'ssh' to anther system.  This is a *LOT* more of an issue forI > me.  I can telnet to another system, but this isn't very useful as most D > systems no longer have telnet running (it also isn't very secure). >   F Can you clarify this statement?  Do you mean that once you ssh into a I system, (A) you can't ssh out from _that_ system (A) into another system   (B)?  F I run TCPware, and I have done that on many occasions.  I used TCP/IP < services last year, (V5.4) and was able to do that, as well.  G Are there separate client and server configurations/processes?  If so,   have you started both?   > 		Zane >      --       ------------------------------   Date: 14 Sep 2005 00:58:49 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com # Subject: Re: HP TCP/IP V5.4 and SSH , Message-ID: <dg7sk902jta@enews1.newsguy.com>  & BRAD <bradhamilton@comcast.net> wrote:H > Can you clarify this statement?  Do you mean that once you ssh into a K > system, (A) you can't ssh out from _that_ system (A) into another system   > (B)?  H Right.  I use ssh to connect from system "A" to OpenVMS system "B", thenD from OpenVMS system "B" I can't use ssh to connect to anything else.   $ ssh **************  = Received signal 10, SIGBUS: invalid access to memory objects.   6 %TCPIP-F-SSH_FATAL, non-specific fatal error condition $     H > I run TCPware, and I have done that on many occasions.  I used TCP/IP > > services last year, (V5.4) and was able to do that, as well.  I > Are there separate client and server configurations/processes?  If so,   > have you started both?  I I think you might be on to something.  I don't seem to be able to ssh out L even when I've telnet'd into the OpenVMS system.  I'll have to check out the. configuration, as soon as I can find the time.   		Zane   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:45:31 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> # Subject: Re: HP TCP/IP V5.4 and SSH ( Message-ID: <opsw2kh5lzzgicya@hyrrokkin>  9 On 14 Sep 2005 00:58:49 GMT, <healyzh@aracnet.com> wrote:   ( > BRAD <bradhamilton@comcast.net> wrote:H >> Can you clarify this statement?  Do you mean that once you ssh into aK >> system, (A) you can't ssh out from _that_ system (A) into another system  >> (B)?  > J > Right.  I use ssh to connect from system "A" to OpenVMS system "B", thenF > from OpenVMS system "B" I can't use ssh to connect to anything else. >  > $ ssh ************** > ? > Received signal 10, SIGBUS: invalid access to memory objects.  > 8 > %TCPIP-F-SSH_FATAL, non-specific fatal error condition > $  >  > H >> I run TCPware, and I have done that on many occasions.  I used TCP/IP? >> services last year, (V5.4) and was able to do that, as well.  > I >> Are there separate client and server configurations/processes?  If so,  >> have you started both?  > K > I think you might be on to something.  I don't seem to be able to ssh out L > even when I've telnet'd into the OpenVMS system.  I'll have to check out   > the 0 > configuration, as soon as I can find the time. >  > 		Zane > " is SSH client enabled and running?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 19:08:39 -0700 % From: DeanW <dean.woodward@gmail.com> # Subject: Re: HP TCP/IP V5.4 and SSH 7 Message-ID: <3f119ada050913190840ddc884@mail.gmail.com>   L On 13 Sep 2005 22:22:12 GMT, healyzh@aracnet.com <healyzh@aracnet.com> wrot= e:L > Another irritating problem I've found is that if you 'ssh' in to the syst= em, L > you can't then 'ssh' to anther system.  This is a *LOT* more of an issue = for I > me.  I can telnet to another system, but this isn't very useful as most D > systems no longer have telnet running (it also isn't very secure).  L You have some sort of local issue. I can chain SSH commands together at wil= l.   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Sep 2005 02:28:25 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com # Subject: Re: HP TCP/IP V5.4 and SSH , Message-ID: <dg81s9010gv@enews4.newsguy.com>   healyzh@aracnet.com wrote:N > Another irritating problem I've found is that if you 'ssh' in to the system,N > you can't then 'ssh' to anther system.  This is a *LOT* more of an issue forI > me.  I can telnet to another system, but this isn't very useful as most D > systems no longer have telnet running (it also isn't very secure).  K OK, it looks like this is actually some sort of permissions problem.  I can J use 'ssh' to connect to other systems if I log in as SYSTEM, but not usingK my own (very restricted) account.  I'm not sure what it could be, and don't . really have time to look at it more right now.   		Zane   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 19:07:18 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>3 Subject: Re: HP to dump itanium - bring back alpha? + Message-ID: <432769B6.75161AD1@comcast.net>    Keith Parris wrote:  >  > bob@instantwhip.com wrote:- > > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=25573  > B > Illuminata has written a "perspective" paper about this Inquirer7 > article: http://www.illuminata.com/perspectives/?p=76   E Too bad comments are closed on that article. Guess they're not really  open to other viewpoints.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 22:44:42 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 3 Subject: Re: HP to dump itanium - bring back alpha? , Message-ID: <43278E90.E8EDADFD@teksavvy.com>  ; Read an article about Intel having managed to keep its 8086 + manufacturing costs to about $40 per chip.    E The advantage with the 8086 is that it isn't just the "perfect" chips F that are usable. They yet a certain yield of "perfect chips" which areE sold at a premium. But then, then can also sell the less than perfect < chips running at a lower speed and still make tons of money.  C How does it work for that IA64 thing ?  Does it just sell a certain F percentage of chips , the ones thaty are "perfect", and just trash the5 rest because IA64 doesn't sell in lower end markets ?   G Or have they decided to keep IA64's published speeds lower so that they H have higher yields and thus need not trash as many of the chips that are
 produced ?   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Sep 2005 18:16:27 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)2 Subject: Re: HP to lay off 5,000 in France/Europe?+ Message-ID: <3oojbrF6ul7hU1@individual.net>   * In article <yODVe.11465$tc7.832@fe03.lga>, 	Z <Z@no.spam> writes:I > "AP News is reporting that Palo Alto, California-based Hewlett-Packard  G > is 'fighting to stay competitive with formidable rivals like IBM and  D > Dell' and is announcing 5,900 European job cuts "to safeguard the J > future" of the company. From the article: 'Michel Destot, the Socialist J > deputy mayor of the southern France city of Grenoble - where HP has one I > of its French plants - said the layoffs were "unacceptable" and demand  K > that HP managers also meet local politicians to discuss scaling back the  > > job cuts.'" This round following the first cut back in July.    G Gee, I have the answer to Mr. Destot.  Close the Grnoble plant entirely # and bring the jobs back to America.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:05:33 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 2 Subject: Re: HP to lay off 5,000 in France/Europe?0 Message-ID: <11ie8ev109ksu11@corp.supernews.com>   Z wrote:I > "AP News is reporting that Palo Alto, California-based Hewlett-Packard  G > is 'fighting to stay competitive with formidable rivals like IBM and  D > Dell' and is announcing 5,900 European job cuts "to safeguard the J > future" of the company. From the article: 'Michel Destot, the Socialist J > deputy mayor of the southern France city of Grenoble - where HP has one I > of its French plants - said the layoffs were "unacceptable" and demand  K > that HP managers also meet local politicians to discuss scaling back the  > > job cuts.'" This round following the first cut back in July. > 0 > http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBE5QDVIDE.html  F Why?  Are the 'local politicians' going to come up with some funds to I suppliment the payroll?  HP cannot just raise taxes like the politicians   do when they want more money.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   Date: 13 Sep 2005 20:38:52 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)2 Subject: Re: HP to lay off 5,000 in France/Europe?+ Message-ID: <3oormrF71o3kU2@individual.net>   0 In article <11ie8ev109ksu11@corp.supernews.com>,* 	Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:
 > Z wrote:J >> "AP News is reporting that Palo Alto, California-based Hewlett-Packard H >> is 'fighting to stay competitive with formidable rivals like IBM and E >> Dell' and is announcing 5,900 European job cuts "to safeguard the  K >> future" of the company. From the article: 'Michel Destot, the Socialist  J                                                                  ^^^^^^^^^K >> deputy mayor of the southern France city of Grenoble - where HP has one  J >> of its French plants - said the layoffs were "unacceptable" and demand L >> that HP managers also meet local politicians to discuss scaling back the ? >> job cuts.'" This round following the first cut back in July.  >>  1 >> http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBE5QDVIDE.html  > H > Why?  Are the 'local politicians' going to come up with some funds to K > suppliment the payroll?  HP cannot just raise taxes like the politicians   > do when they want more money.  >    Need I say more?   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:19:28 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 2 Subject: Re: HP to lay off 5,000 in France/Europe?+ Message-ID: <43277A9B.1701415@teksavvy.com>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:I > Gee, I have the answer to Mr. Destot.  Close the Grnoble plant entirely % > and bring the jobs back to America.     D Jobs that were never there to begin with. You need to understand theD nature of multinational corporations, especially those that get more@ revenus from countries outside the USA than from inside the USA.  G The bigger question is wether the Grenoble facility is an ex Digital or  HP heritage facility.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 14:59:47 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> ' Subject: Re: Itanium Solutions Alliance 0 Message-ID: <11ie844e1mkq14b@corp.supernews.com>   Alan Greig wrote:  >  >  > Keith Parris wrote:  >  >> JF Mezei wrote: >>j >>> http://news.com.com/Itanium+allies+to+pool+development+efforts/2100-1006_3-5844877.html?tag=nefd.lede  >>>  >> >> >> ....  >>I >>> HP--the server maker that has pushed the chip most aggressively--sold G >>> $108 million in Itanium-based Unix servers in the second quarter of F >>> 2005, compared with $1.1 billion in the PA-RISC-based Unix servers? >>> they're intended to replace, according to Gartner figures.   >> >> >>I >> The Garter figures were wrong, and have been corrected. HP's response:  >>E >> "The CNET article describes the formation of an Itanium Solutions  I >> Alliance, another good proof-point on the industry standard nature of  J >> Itanium. The CNET article had some incorrect Gartner market share data  >  > < > Not still using "industry standard"? That's just annoying.  G Actually, it's quite correct.  They just left off the last word in the  1 phrase.  It should read "Industry Standard Joke".    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 14:55:39 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> ' Subject: Re: Itanium Solutions Alliance / Message-ID: <11ie7sfsb7roc4@corp.supernews.com>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:5 > In article <AJqVe.12489$bi3.3077@news.cpqcorp.net>, 6 > 	Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> writes: > M >>WW vendor revenue for Q205 (all operating systems) (Source: Gartner QSTAT): 8 >>HP Itanium based - US$411M, growing 64% year-over-year >  > G > 2 systems last year and 3 systems this year is a 50% growth.  But not & > something I owuld bet the farm on.   >  > # >>HP PA-RISC based systems- US$778M " >>HP Alpha based systems - US$175M >  > N > So they sold nearly a billion in dead architectures over less than half thatN > on "the wave of the future".  And you see this as promising?  I would expectM > a better ratio if Itanium were only in it's second or third year.  This far . > out with those results I would be concerned. >  > bill >   E The day of "the customer is always right" seems to be dead, at least  F from how HP pushes the lesser selling system and kills off the better  selling systems.  E Then again, the customer may still have the last word on this issue.  5 Maybe that's why the itanic is stuck on that iceburg.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 22:30:29 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>' Subject: Re: Itanium Solutions Alliance = Message-ID: <Ba2dnQSu2azWFrreRVn-pA@metrocastcablevision.com>    Keith Parris wrote:  > Bill Todd wrote: > 9 >> Now, Gartner's numbers may not include service revenue  >  > F > They definitely do NOT include Services revenues. For VMS, Services M > revenues tend to dwarf the HW/SW revenues -- several times higher, in fact.   F That's no surprise today, but it was not true 5 years ago:  sales and 3 service revenues were roughly comparable back then.   I But after VMS sales fell off a cliff after the Alphacide, the continuing  G service revenue from earlier sales kept streaming in, diminishing only  D gradually as existing systems got retired and were not replaced (at I least not with new VMS systems, nor, one might suspect in many cases, by  ( any other systems from the same vendor).  C That's why the numbers that suggest that overall VMS revenues have  C fallen only by 50% or so miss the mark so badly:  just as you have  B stated, the vast preponderance of what's left is residual service F revenue from machines just waiting for retirement rather than the new I sales which would guarantee continuing service revenue down the road - a  ? great recipe for a slow but accelerating voyage down the tubes.   F Which is really a shame, because VMS deserved much better.  But Curly D seems to be doing pretty well these days, and I guess that's what's  important...   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 22:46:32 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>' Subject: Re: Itanium Solutions Alliance = Message-ID: <H9KdncuczaiTErreRVn-qw@metrocastcablevision.com>    Alan Greig wrote:  >  >  > Keith Parris wrote:  >  >> JF Mezei wrote: >>j >>> http://news.com.com/Itanium+allies+to+pool+development+efforts/2100-1006_3-5844877.html?tag=nefd.lede  >>>  >> >> >> ....  >>I >>> HP--the server maker that has pushed the chip most aggressively--sold G >>> $108 million in Itanium-based Unix servers in the second quarter of F >>> 2005, compared with $1.1 billion in the PA-RISC-based Unix servers? >>> they're intended to replace, according to Gartner figures.   >> >> >>I >> The Garter figures were wrong, and have been corrected. HP's response:  >>E >> "The CNET article describes the formation of an Itanium Solutions  I >> Alliance, another good proof-point on the industry standard nature of  J >> Itanium. The CNET article had some incorrect Gartner market share data  >  > < > Not still using "industry standard"? That's just annoying. > D > Here's how the ZDnet UK leading article September 01, 2005 begins: > 7 > http://comment.zdnet.co.uk/0,39020505,39215920,00.htm  > < > Title: Itanium Solutions Alliance won't solve the problem. > D > "Intel says that the Itanium Solutions Alliance proves the chip's I > strength. It's more like circling the wagons, with the incoming arrows    > sporting an Intel Inside logo. > J > It's a good thing for Intel's UK marketing department that the proposed E > Government crackdown on extreme Internet pornography is not yet in  K > force. With bestiality, necrophilia and severe sadomasochism all off the  E > menu, anyone enthusiastically flogging a dead horse online will be  K > looking at years of porridge for breakfast  and these guys have to sell   > the Itanium."   + Ah, British understatement:  gotta love it.   H We could use a great deal more of such realism in media on this side of C the pond, but considering current trends I'm not holding my breath  F waiting for it.  What still puzzles me is why, given their relatively D unmuzzled media and at least somewhat less comatose population, the C British nonetheless allowed themselves to be frog-marched by their  A leadership into Iraq (considering their current alternatives for  H leadership it's at least a bit more understandable why they haven't yet 3 thrown out the bums who were responsible, I guess).   F That's sort of a digression, but I keep being struck by the parallels B between the industry hubris and outright lies associated with the @ Alphacide and the same aspects in the political arena that were G associated with our willful entry into the current imbroglio overseas.  D In some senses I think they must reflect a common deficiency in the F American psyche, and one which is proving rather difficult to rectify G even after the results are obvious to all save those unwilling to look   directly at them.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 22:43:47 -0400 0 From: "stewart allen" <stewartallen@comcast.net>C Subject: Need VT320 Terminal settings to hook up a MicroVax 3100-40 0 Message-ID: <qcSdnQbo578bE7reRVn-hQ@comcast.com>     L I received a MicroVAX 3100-40 (BA42B), a VT320 terminal, lk201 keyboard and E a MMJ cable. (I am relatively new to this but asked some preliminary  L questions). Now I need to know what should the settings be on the terminal. I Also some common commands (assuming the thing starts up) since I will be  ? trying to find out: installed OS, hard drive size, Memory, etc.    Thanks in advance 
 Stewart Allen      --   http://QLiner.com   A The goal of the works of a genius' existance lies only in itself.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 19:12:03 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS  FTP server with these features ?+ Message-ID: <43276AD3.F6C39305@comcast.net>    briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:  > b > In article <43262345.BECD97CB@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:# > > briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:  > [big snip]B > >> Some of the details will vary in those cases.  But the bottomA > >> line is the same.  An RFA-format restart code generated on a D > >> VMS system ends up being used on a VMS system.  It is presented5 > >> on the non-VMS system as an opaque string value.  > > K > > ...and how many current FTP, HTTP, etc. clients would be compliant with  > > that scheme? > 0 > Every single one that supports restart at all.  G I don't seem to find *ANY* FTP clients that support "REST[ART]". I find , some that understand "REGET", but that's it.  E I'm not sure what purpose a server's REST[ART] command would serve if $ the client doesn't understand REGET.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 19:13:38 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS  FTP server with these features ?+ Message-ID: <43276B32.C8B23F2B@comcast.net>    Alan Greig wrote:  >  > Bob Koehler wrote: > H > >    Which means real life implementations will ignore the marker sentH > >    by the remote system, look at how many bytes are in the file, andD > >    send that assuming that was what the last marker value should! > >    have been.  RFC be damned.  > G > But even if they do that the VMS server can work out exactly where to I > start sending again. Byte 183634 of the file as perceived by the client J >   will still be byte 183634 of the file if sent again. So the VMS sender& > can still work out where to skip to.  D ...which would mean re-reading the input file to count bytes (in theF case of sequential-variable). So, it wouldn't "skip", it would "slew".   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 00:37:02 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS  FTP server with these features ?; Message-ID: <OgKVe.7911$Kk3.2286@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>    David J Dachtera wrote:   G > ....which would mean re-reading the input file to count bytes (in the H > case of sequential-variable). So, it wouldn't "skip", it would "slew".  I But remember the alternative is to read the entire file anyway to resend  H it. So on a restart in the worst case and with the simplest code change G you just perform the normal full file-transfer but don't actually send  D the bytes to the socket until the appropriate point. But the simple F stream record format transfers can easily jump straight into the file.   --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:01:35 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS  FTP server with these features ?, Message-ID: <4327766C.7BF00B51@teksavvy.com>   Alan Greig wrote: G > But even if they do that the VMS server can work out exactly where to I > start sending again. Byte 183634 of the file as perceived by the client J >   will still be byte 183634 of the file if sent again. So the VMS sender& > can still work out where to skip to.    B If VMS sends out markers in spanish, and the Unix system sends out@ request to restart in Russian, then even if the request containsF "usable" sata, it isn't in the format/language expected by VMS and VMS won't know what to do with it.  C So the VMS servers should send out markers that contain the textual J representation of the byte count in a format expected by the Unix clients.  E However, if the RFC says that the marker is an opaque value, then the G VMS server could not be faulted to send a marker in chinese (eg: RFA).  G If the lcinet doesn'T abide by the RFC, then its is the client's fault.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:32:46 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 5 Subject: Re: OpenVMS FTP server with these features ? , Message-ID: <43277DB9.3CC95424@teksavvy.com>   David J Dachtera wrote: F > > What REGET FTP command?  We're talking about REST.  It's described= > > in RFC 959.  You know -- the document that describes FTP?  > E > If the client doesn't understand REGET, why does the server need to  > understand REST[ART]?   B One needs to differentiate between user interface commands and FTPF protocol commands. For instance, on the VMS client, you can type "DIR"A but that doesn't send a "DIR" command to the server, it sends the ! appropriate FTP protocol command.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:06:03 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> . Subject: Re: OT: Sun's quarterly announcements, Message-ID: <43277778.32FEA4C3@teksavvy.com>   Tom Linden wrote:  > E > On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 05:05:35 GMT, CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net> wrote:  > K > > Is there any likelihood of confusion?  Isn't it clear they're different - > > when one is hardware and one is software?  > >  > H > How about a computer company and a record label?  Any confusion there?    H Apple Records got pretty nervous when Apple Computesr got into the musicF business with Ipod and Itunes. They signed some sort of deal to pleaseE Apple Record  and prevent ugly legal actions against Apple Computers.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 11:55:26 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> * Subject: Retry: Itanium Solutions Alliance( Message-ID: <opsw11ioqrzgicya@hyrrokkin>  0 On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 02:22:24 GMT, Keith Parris  % <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote:    > JF Mezei wrote: h >> http://news.com.com/Itanium+allies+to+pool+development+efforts/2100-1006_3-5844877.html?tag=nefd.lede > ... H >> HP--the server maker that has pushed the chip most aggressively--soldF >> $108 million in Itanium-based Unix servers in the second quarter ofE >> 2005, compared with $1.1 billion in the PA-RISC-based Unix servers = >> they're intended to replace, according to Gartner figures.  > H > The Garter figures were wrong, and have been corrected. HP's response: > E > "The CNET article describes the formation of an Itanium Solutions   I > Alliance, another good proof-point on the industry standard nature of   J > Itanium. The CNET article had some incorrect Gartner market share data   > which have been corrected.G > WW vendor revenue for Q205 (all operating systems) (Source: Gartner   	 > QSTAT): 8 > HP Itanium based - US$411M, growing 64% year-over-year# > HP PA-RISC based systems- US$778M " > HP Alpha based systems - US$175M5 > HP Itanium revenue vs. HP PA-RISC - 53% and growing J > HP Itanium revenue vs. HP Alpha - more than 2 times the size of HP’s   > Alpha revenue"    The TABs screwed up on first try  K In my opinion, it wrong to present the breakdown as above, rather see the   	 following 3 matrix filled out.  Feel free to contribute, anyone   J                  VAX  Alpha Itanium  PA-RISC  Mips  X86  X86Server  SUM    MARGINK VMS                                                                $4B       20% F Tru64                                                              $3B HP-UX  MPIX Nonstop  Windows    MARGIN SUM   8 Of course, that might expose some weakness in some areas   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2005 14:02:30 -0700 From: sean@obanion.us ? Subject: Re: Storage Magazine: "HP Reloads" its storage arsenal B Message-ID: <1126643396.121927.39430@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>  0 They must be reloading with EMC's sales tactics:  C 300GB disk drives in XP 12000 cannot be configured as 7+1 RAID, but F don't bother to tell you that until the upgraded micro code refuses to do it.  ? Documented battery requirements do not mach micro code enforced B minimums, so even after configuring 300GB drives as 6+2 RAID, they@ can't be used because the battery upgrade supplied isn't enough.  @ Said micro code upgrade takes FC ports to hosts off line causing' existing storage to become unavailable.   3 This just happened, so maybe I'm a little cranky...      Sean       Keith Parris wrote: , > Storage Magazine's Cover Story: HP ReloadsA > ftp://ftp.compaq.com/pub/products/storageworks/4AA0-1612ENW.pdf F > Hewlett-Packard hopes that a long-overdue refresh of its popular EVAG > arrays, plus a slate of new products, will make its storage offerings  > more competitive.  > By Rich Castagna >  > Some quotes:D > "Scott Erkonen of Premier Bankcard was concerned when HP's storageG > efforts flagged, but he's encouraged by HP's recent product blitz and & > already has plans for its new EVAs." > E > "The sheer breadth of the rollouts was enough to salvage the firm's  > much-needed momentum." > F > "I think it's great to see the number and breadth of announcements,"H > says Scott Erkonen, managing officer of networking at Premier Bankcard > INc. in Sioux Falls, SD."  > A > "For all disk storage (direct-attached and networked), HP still G > maintains its leadership position over IBM. For the fourth quarter of F > 2004, IDC shows HP's market share at 24.2% vs. IBM's 22.5%. ... HP'sF > strength in the overall disk storage market can be attributed to its# > strong server and desktop sales."  > F > "The concensus is that new products have helped to re-establish HP'sI > mindshare in the storage world. And having a more complete product line H > will help, too. "They're not going to have to come to the table with a+ > partial portfolio anymore," says Hurley."  > I > "Many HP customers, such as Premier Bankcard's Erkonen, have considered I > other vendors. "We've done due diligence and compared all the different I > vendors as we've been making our decisions," notes Erkonen, "and HP has H > still continued to be the vendor of choice." Similarly, Fender MusicalI > Instruments' Pollock looked at storage systems from Dell and IBM before  > settling on HP."   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2005 14:19:00 -0700$ From: "Ed Wilts" <ewilts@ewilts.org>? Subject: Re: Storage Magazine: "HP Reloads" its storage arsenal B Message-ID: <1126646340.508228.42570@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  ! >300GB disk drives in XP 12000...   D Which has absolutely nothing to do with Keith's quoted article which> mentions mostly HP's internally-developed EVA storage, not theF rebranded Hitachi storage you're referring to.  The only place XP evenB gets mentioned in the PDF is as a back-end to the new NAS gateway.  	    .../Ed    ------------------------------    Date: 13 Sep 2005 23:20:11 +01006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)? Subject: [OpenVMS V7.3-2] ANA/DI/REP SYS$SYSDEVICE hangs system , Message-ID: <43275eab$1@news.langstoeger.at>  J I had today the problem, that a ANAL/DISK/REP did not complete and hung myL system. I was surprised and tried it again, four times. It was reproducable.  = I wasn't able to abort it ^C ^Y, nor was I able to ^T or ^O !   L I fixed it by repairing one half of my system disk shadowset (after DISMOUNTL and MOUNT/OVER=SHADOW) and then booting from this half. It is my home system% without important data so no problem.   4 But, how to fix this problem on a important system ?  G I also tried ANAL/REP/CONF but there you can only enter Y or N (no Quit H or All or others) and even after I "repaired" the first couple of errorsI (it was about umpteen thousands of 'link count 0 should be 1' and others) N all of them 'file marked for delete' and then aborting the repair and startingK again, all errors (files not deleted while surely closed) were there again.   K So, how to repair a system disk, which can't be repaired in parts and won't  complete if done as a whole ?    Strange    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:10:04 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) C Subject: Re: [OpenVMS V7.3-2] ANA/DI/REP SYS$SYSDEVICE hangs system 3 Message-ID: <g%IVe.12589$y14.3335@news.cpqcorp.net>   e In article <43275eab$1@news.langstoeger.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes: H :I also tried ANAL/REP/CONF but there you can only enter Y or N (no QuitI :or All or others) and even after I "repaired" the first couple of errors J :(it was about umpteen thousands of 'link count 0 should be 1' and others)O :all of them 'file marked for delete' and then aborting the repair and starting L :again, all errors (files not deleted while surely closed) were there again. : L :So, how to repair a system disk, which can't be repaired in parts and won't :complete if done as a whole ?  D   This could be an error within ANALYZE/DISK, such as a latent errorF   the code colliding with an unexpected disk corruption of some sort.   G   This could also indicate a problem with the target disk or within the G   I/O path out to the disk, as well.  That this is a hard lock-up tends G   to imply that hardware problem of some sort might have been involved.   G   Complete and hard system hangs can classically indicate a controller, I   I/O bus or disk problem.  These can be triggered occasionally by errant F   driver activity, but these can also be triggered by hardware errors,?   unsupported hardware, and by invalid hardware configurations.   I   What sort of I/O hardware, and are the ECO kits installed here current?   G   Did you have to power-cycle or console-reinit this box to clear this?     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 19:04:03 -0400 + From: Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn1@patmedia.net> C Subject: Re: [OpenVMS V7.3-2] ANA/DI/REP SYS$SYSDEVICE hangs system < Message-ID: <6.2.5.4.2.20050913190149.022b0500@patmedia.net>  A At 06:20 PM 9/13/2005, Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote (in part):   L >So, how to repair a system disk, which can't be repaired in parts and won't >complete if done as a whole ?  9 Boot your system from a CD. Mount you system drive and do    $$$ ana/disk/norep drive$ $$$ ana/disk/rep drive   ! if needed  F If you did an $ana/disk/norepair of the system disk on a live system, F some of the "errors" may actually be the result of the system working.   Ken    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Sep 2005 07:34:43 +01006 From: eplan@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)C Subject: Re: [OpenVMS V7.3-2] ANA/DI/REP SYS$SYSDEVICE hangs system , Message-ID: <4327d293$1@news.langstoeger.at>  Y In article <g%IVe.12589$y14.3335@news.cpqcorp.net>, hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes: f >In article <43275eab$1@news.langstoeger.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes:I >:I also tried ANAL/REP/CONF but there you can only enter Y or N (no Quit J >:or All or others) and even after I "repaired" the first couple of errorsK >:(it was about umpteen thousands of 'link count 0 should be 1' and others) P >:all of them 'file marked for delete' and then aborting the repair and startingM >:again, all errors (files not deleted while surely closed) were there again.   I May I suggest to add a All and Quit response to ANAL/DISK/REP/CONF soon ?   M >:So, how to repair a system disk, which can't be repaired in parts and won't  >:complete if done as a whole ?  > E >  This could be an error within ANALYZE/DISK, such as a latent error G >  the code colliding with an unexpected disk corruption of some sort.    M No disk corruption (besides the file marked for delete and invalid linkcount)  No errors, not even in logfile.   H >  This could also indicate a problem with the target disk or within theH >  I/O path out to the disk, as well.  That this is a hard lock-up tendsH >  to imply that hardware problem of some sort might have been involved.  N No. I forgot to mention something. Problem is that DECWindow seems to lock up.N I had no problem to connect via LAT and then ^O there (but no login of course)A I did the ANAL/DISK/REP via local DECterm and was _therefor_ SOL.   J >  What sort of I/O hardware, and are the ECO kits installed here current?  0 Local SCSI. A pair of 36GB disks in a PWS 433au.  H >  Did you have to power-cycle or console-reinit this box to clear this?  9 Sort of. I had to push the button to reboot the system...    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.513 ************************                                                                          +{;BF,DZ2/)LLfxd<`l4u!xzmS~wX?PG>`hP^fG]u1bGA!^r-]ك̳nȏL\Yכ+wovJ2ك~g(K+-20xlB яF14
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