1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 14 Sep 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 514       Contents:( Does going to VMS 8.? require recompiles, Re: Does going to VMS 8.? require recompiles+ Finding directory file of current directory / Re: Finding directory file of current directory / Re: Finding directory file of current directory / Re: Finding directory file of current directory  Re: HP TCP/IP V5.4 and SSH* Re: HP to dump itanium - bring back alpha?* Re: HP to dump itanium - bring back alpha?* Re: HP to dump itanium - bring back alpha?) Re: HP to lay off 5,000 in France/Europe? ) Re: HP to lay off 5,000 in France/Europe? ) Re: HP to lay off 5,000 in France/Europe? ) Re: HP to lay off 5,000 in France/Europe?  Re: i need to buy a vax 11/780 RE: i need to buy a vax 11/780 Re: Itanium Solutions Alliance Re: Itanium Solutions Alliance> Re: Need VT320 Terminal settings to hook up a MicroVax 3100-40> Re: Need VT320 Terminal settings to hook up a MicroVax 3100-40- Re: OpenVMS  FTP server with these features ? - Re: OpenVMS  FTP server with these features ? - Re: OpenVMS  FTP server with these features ? - Re: OpenVMS  FTP server with these features ? ( RENAME behaviour (no message when error), Re: RENAME behaviour (no message when error), Re: RENAME behaviour (no message when error): Re: [OpenVMS V7.3-2] ANA/DI/REP SYS$SYSDEVICE hangs system  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 14 Sep 2005 09:55:46 -0700' From: "tadamsmar" <tadamsmar@yahoo.com> 1 Subject: Does going to VMS 8.? require recompiles C Message-ID: <1126716946.769157.269990@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   ; I wondering how an upgrade from 7.3-2 to 8.something on our 8 Alphas would impact the third party software we use.  Do0 the executable still run on 8 without recompile?   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:48:12 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>5 Subject: Re: Does going to VMS 8.? require recompiles 3 Message-ID: <wnZVe.12629$bA4.8009@news.cpqcorp.net>    tadamsmar wrote:= > I wondering how an upgrade from 7.3-2 to 8.something on our : > Alphas would impact the third party software we use.  Do2 > the executable still run on 8 without recompile? > = Non-privileged applications should be fine.  Device drivers,  E applications with knowledge of system internal data structures, etc.  A will need to be recompiled.  Depends on the third party software.    --   John Reagan / HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 07:00:36 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 4 Subject: Finding directory file of current directory, Message-ID: <432802AA.62A4F106@teksavvy.com>  B Ok, I know how to use F$ENVIRONMENT and F$PARSE to get the current; directory specification of where a command procedure lives.   : I know I can use SET DIR dev:[dir.dir.dir]/OWNER=new_owner  ! But SET DIR doesn't support /PROT   B and SET SECURITY doesn't seem to support directory specifications.  F Is there a magic incantation that would allow me to set the protectionD on the directory file of the current working directory (eg: the .DIR file one level above) ?   E Breaking the directory specification apart to build a file name seems 6 more involved, especially if you need to support both:  I CAKE:[chocolate]    (which would translate to  CAKE:[000000]chocolate.dir   
 as well as  _ $DISK2:[FOOD.RECIPES.CAKE.CHOCOLATE] which translate to $DISK2:[FOOD.RECIPES.CAKE]chocolate.dir    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Sep 2005 07:52:59 -0700 From: "R Boyd" <bob@hax.com>8 Subject: Re: Finding directory file of current directoryB Message-ID: <1126709579.823272.72450@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>  F HP (John Gillings?)  Could we please get support for F$ELEMENT(-n,...)F added to DCL?  Then it would be easier to pick off the LAST element of- a list.   In the same spirit as <filename>;-n   A Here's a command procedure I wrote years ago to handle the issue:   8 $! uponedir.com -- find previous level in directory tree5 $!                 return value to global symbol 'p2' 
 $! parameters  $! p1 -- input directory $! p2 -- output directory 4 $! p3 -- if present -- gets current dir dirfile spec $  vfl = f$ver(0)  $  save_dir = f$parse("")-".;"" $  if p1.eqs."" then p1 = save_dir $  set default 'p1' % $  prev_dir_lev = f$parse("[-]")-".;" " $  if prev_dir_lev .eqs."" then  -F $       prev_dir_lev = f$log(f$parse("",,,"device")-":")-".]"-".>"+"]" $ if p2.nes."" $ then  $ 'p2' == prev_dir_lev $ else  $ show sym prev_dir_lev  $ endif % $ cur_dir = f$parse("",,,"DIRECTORY") 0 $ prev_dir = f$parse(prev_dir_lev,,,"DIRECTORY")> $ if f$Loc(prev_dir-"]",cur_dir).lt.f$len(cur_dir) then $ goto
 not_rooted? $  cur_dir_spec = prev_dir_lev+(cur_dir-"["-"]"-"<"-">")+".DIR"  $  goto cur_dir_spec
 $ not_rooted:  $  cur_dir_spec = < prev_dir_lev+(cur_dir-(prev_dir-"]"-">")-"]"-">"-".")+".DIR" $ cur_dir_spec: , $  if p3.eqs."" then $ show sym cur_dir_spec+ $  if p3.nes."" then $ 'p3' == cur_dir_spec  $ exit:  $  set default 'save_dir'  $  vfl = f$ver(vfl)  $  exit  $!Last Modified:  14-FEB-1994     See if that solves your problem.   Robert   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Sep 2005 15:25:29 GMT. From: JONESD@ecr6.ohio-state.edu (David Jones)8 Subject: Re: Finding directory file of current directory: Message-ID: <dg9fd9$10n$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>  B In message <1126709579.823272.72450@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,  "R Boyd" <bob@hax.com> writes: G >HP (John Gillings?)  Could we please get support for F$ELEMENT(-n,...) G >added to DCL?  Then it would be easier to pick off the LAST element of . >a list.   In the same spirit as <filename>;-n  N While you're at it, how about supporting f$parse(spec,,,"DEVICE+DIRECTORY") or f$parse(spec,,,"NAME+TYPE")?    < David L. Jones               |      Phone:    (614) 271-6718- Ohio State University        |      Internet: L 140 W. 19th St.              |               jonesd@er6s1.eng.ohio-state.edu: Columbus, OH 43210           |               vman+@osu.edu  1 Disclaimer: I'm looking for marbles all day long.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 12:39:53 -0400  From: "Jilly" <jilly@hp.com>8 Subject: Re: Finding directory file of current directory* Message-ID: <4328525a@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  3 Good ideas.  I'll log them on our internal systems.    Jilly   < "David Jones" <JONESD@ecr6.ohio-state.edu> wrote in message 4 news:dg9fd9$10n$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu...D > In message <1126709579.823272.72450@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,  > "R Boyd" <bob@hax.com> writes:H >>HP (John Gillings?)  Could we please get support for F$ELEMENT(-n,...)H >>added to DCL?  Then it would be easier to pick off the LAST element of/ >>a list.   In the same spirit as <filename>;-n  > + > While you're at it, how about supporting  ' > f$parse(spec,,,"DEVICE+DIRECTORY") or  > f$parse(spec,,,"NAME+TYPE")? >  > > > David L. Jones               |      Phone:    (614) 271-6718/ > Ohio State University        |      Internet: ! > 140 W. 19th St.              |  ! > jonesd@er6s1.eng.ohio-state.edu < > Columbus, OH 43210           |               vman+@osu.edu > 4 > Disclaimer: I'm looking for marbles all day long.    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Sep 2005 10:22:07 -0700" From: "Jose Baars" <peut@peut.org># Subject: Re: HP TCP/IP V5.4 and SSH B Message-ID: <1126718527.712362.34230@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  D Btw, if you think SSH is logging in in a funny way, try sftp to your system. @ Neither sylogin, nor login.com is ever executed. How about that?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 06:52:03 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 3 Subject: Re: HP to dump itanium - bring back alpha? , Message-ID: <432800AA.A02F7A81@teksavvy.com>   Robert Deininger wrote: H > Generally they have several bins for speed, cache size, etc.  The bestK > chips sell for significantly more money than the slowest.  They appear to K > price the lower-end chips so they can sell pretty much all their yield of  > functioning chips.  , But for IA64, are there "lower end" chips ?   G I was under the impression that the current crop of IA64 chips were all D the same. Or are there IA64 chips being produced today by Intel thatB have different speeds when sold and integrated into machines being assembled NOW ?   % I was aware only of the 1.6 Ghz chip.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:34:32 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) 3 Subject: Re: HP to dump itanium - bring back alpha? L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1409050634340001@user-uinj49p.dialup.mindspring.com>  @ In article <43278E90.E8EDADFD@teksavvy.com>, that JF Mezei thing% <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:   < >Read an article about Intel having managed to keep its 8086, >manufacturing costs to about $40 per chip.  > F >The advantage with the 8086 is that it isn't just the "perfect" chipsG >that are usable. They yet a certain yield of "perfect chips" which are F >sold at a premium. But then, then can also sell the less than perfect= >chips running at a lower speed and still make tons of money.  > ) >How does it work for that IA64 thing ?     D The same way you describe for the chips you incorrectly name "8086".   >Does it just sell a certainG >percentage of chips , the ones thaty are "perfect", and just trash the 6 >rest because IA64 doesn't sell in lower end markets ?  F Generally they have several bins for speed, cache size, etc.  The bestI chips sell for significantly more money than the slowest.  They appear to I price the lower-end chips so they can sell pretty much all their yield of  functioning chips.  H >Or have they decided to keep IA64's published speeds lower so that theyI >have higher yields and thus need not trash as many of the chips that are  >produced ?    Not.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:20:18 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>3 Subject: Re: HP to dump itanium - bring back alpha? = Message-ID: <ppadnSEYQq0uorXeRVn-uw@metrocastcablevision.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Robert Deininger wrote:  > H >>Generally they have several bins for speed, cache size, etc.  The bestK >>chips sell for significantly more money than the slowest.  They appear to K >>price the lower-end chips so they can sell pretty much all their yield of  >>functioning chips. >  > . > But for IA64, are there "lower end" chips ?  > I > I was under the impression that the current crop of IA64 chips were all F > the same. Or are there IA64 chips being produced today by Intel thatD > have different speeds when sold and integrated into machines being > assembled NOW ?  > ' > I was aware only of the 1.6 Ghz chip.   H Then perhaps you should consider yourself to be so uninformed about the = subject that commentary in this area is fairly inappropriate.   7 That can be easily remedied should you choose to do so.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:25:02 +0200  From: S <soterroatyahoodotcom>2 Subject: Re: HP to lay off 5,000 in France/Europe?& Message-ID: <4327de5c$1@news1.ethz.ch>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:I > Gee, I have the answer to Mr. Destot.  Close the Grnoble plant entirely % > and bring the jobs back to America.   E So they can fire 5900 americans. Swell solution you've got (was it a   solution?).    S    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Sep 2005 03:06:50 -0700 From: ard69@hotmail.com 2 Subject: Re: HP to lay off 5,000 in France/Europe?C Message-ID: <1126692410.865301.139630@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:, > In article <yODVe.11465$tc7.832@fe03.lga>, > 	Z <Z@no.spam> writes:J > > "AP News is reporting that Palo Alto, California-based Hewlett-PackardH > > is 'fighting to stay competitive with formidable rivals like IBM andE > > Dell' and is announcing 5,900 European job cuts "to safeguard the K > > future" of the company. From the article: 'Michel Destot, the Socialist K > > deputy mayor of the southern France city of Grenoble - where HP has one J > > of its French plants - said the layoffs were "unacceptable" and demandL > > that HP managers also meet local politicians to discuss scaling back the@ > > job cuts.'" This round following the first cut back in July. >  > I > Gee, I have the answer to Mr. Destot.  Close the Grnoble plant entirely % > and bring the jobs back to America.  >   F In the interest of maintaining global harmony, please explain why this is a solution.  F You're surely not suggesting that a US based employee should be higher* up in the pecking order than a non-US one.  C If it was a facetious comment, I'm interested to know what is funny 1 about non-US employees losing their livelihoods.     Regards  Andrew   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 06:47:47 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 2 Subject: Re: HP to lay off 5,000 in France/Europe?, Message-ID: <4327FFA9.6306BC86@teksavvy.com>  G BTW, BBC was reporting that today, it is about 1500 job cuts in Germany G that are announced. The reason they are mentioning this is that Germany H is in the midst of an election and most corporations are wanting to stayE neutral by not announcing job cuts until after the election. Seems HP R couldn't wait, was ignorant of election, or wanted to hurt the current government.   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Sep 2005 12:51:47 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)2 Subject: Re: HP to lay off 5,000 in France/Europe?+ Message-ID: <3oqkn3F75500U1@individual.net>   & In article <4327de5c$1@news1.ethz.ch>,! 	S <soterroatyahoodotcom> writes:  > Bill Gunshannon wrote:J >> Gee, I have the answer to Mr. Destot.  Close the Grnoble plant entirely& >> and bring the jobs back to America. > G > So they can fire 5900 americans. Swell solution you've got (was it a  
 > solution?).  >   B Why would you fire 5900 americans?  There are plenty of foreignersB both abroad and here to make up the needed cuts.  Fire them, yank   their visas and send em packin!!   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 04:20:21 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com ' Subject: Re: i need to buy a vax 11/780 - Message-ID: <87irx490u2.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   , "d b turner" <dbturner@islandco.com> writes:  < > please call 912-4476622 if you have a working one for sale   With good SBI cables as well...   + Can you give us the `good oil' on this one?    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 08:24:27 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> ' Subject: RE: i need to buy a vax 11/780 R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB6B2827@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----? > From: prep@prep.synonet.com [mailto:prep@prep.synonet.com]=20 " > Sent: September 13, 2005 4:20 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ) > Subject: Re: i need to buy a vax 11/780  >=20. > "d b turner" <dbturner@islandco.com> writes: >=20> > > please call 912-4476622 if you have a working one for sale >=20! > With good SBI cables as well...  >=20- > Can you give us the `good oil' on this one?  >=20 > --=20 > > Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 > +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. B >                                              West Australia 6076    < Boy, not that comment on SBI cables brings back memories :-)  E I used to do CS country support for the 780's and one of the things I 9 did was hard wire a "wrap-around" SBI cable connector for D troubleshooting these cables. For those who did not know about theseE little beasties, they could provide lots of grey hair very quickly as   folks had intermittent problems.  D The wrap-around connector simply connected each SBI in a wrap aroundF manner so that you could use a std ohm-meter to measure the resistanceE of the entire end to end connection. With the connector on, you could F also lightly tap various connectors to see which ones might have flaky connections ..  E Ahhhh, the good ole days when Customers did not look at you nervously = when you said you were going to the car to get your 'scope ..    :-)    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 12:11:50 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>' Subject: Re: Itanium Solutions Alliance = Message-ID: <asUVe.68093$2n6.64075@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk>    Bill Todd wrote:   >  >> > J > We could use a great deal more of such realism in media on this side of E > the pond, but considering current trends I'm not holding my breath  H > waiting for it.  What still puzzles me is why, given their relatively F > unmuzzled media and at least somewhat less comatose population, the E > British nonetheless allowed themselves to be frog-marched by their  C > leadership into Iraq (considering their current alternatives for  J > leadership it's at least a bit more understandable why they haven't yet 5 > thrown out the bums who were responsible, I guess).   F Without comment I will just post a link to a speech by Ken Clarke who F may astonishingly be about to become leader of the Conservative party A years after being written off as too old. Ken Clarke is the only  B prospective Tory leader polls say can beat Labour. Ken Clarke was E Chancellor under Margaret Thatcher. Incidentally Thatcher is said to  H oppose the second Iraq war. I think you will find his words interesting.  I http://politics.guardian.co.uk/conservatives/story/0,9061,1560863,00.html  Begins:  " D The Conservative leadership candidate's speech to the Foreign Press % Association on terrorism and security    Thursday September 1, 2005  I The disastrous decision to invade Iraq has made Britain a more dangerous  F place. The war did not create the danger of Islamic terrorism in this H country, which had been growing internationally even before the tragedy E of the attacks on 9/11. However the decision by the UK government to  G become the leading ally of President Bush in the Iraq debacle has made  : Britain one of the foremost targets for Islamic extremists "    --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:33:06 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>' Subject: Re: Itanium Solutions Alliance G Message-ID: <YO2dnZBIgtQv37XenZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com>    Alan Greig wrote:  >  >  > Bill Todd wrote: >  >> >>>  >>H >> We could use a great deal more of such realism in media on this side I >> of the pond, but considering current trends I'm not holding my breath  I >> waiting for it.  What still puzzles me is why, given their relatively  G >> unmuzzled media and at least somewhat less comatose population, the  F >> British nonetheless allowed themselves to be frog-marched by their D >> leadership into Iraq (considering their current alternatives for G >> leadership it's at least a bit more understandable why they haven't  : >> yet thrown out the bums who were responsible, I guess). >  > H > Without comment I will just post a link to a speech by Ken Clarke who H > may astonishingly be about to become leader of the Conservative party C > years after being written off as too old. Ken Clarke is the only  D > prospective Tory leader polls say can beat Labour. Ken Clarke was G > Chancellor under Margaret Thatcher. Incidentally Thatcher is said to  J > oppose the second Iraq war. I think you will find his words interesting. > K > http://politics.guardian.co.uk/conservatives/story/0,9061,1560863,00.html 	 > Begins:  > " F > The Conservative leadership candidate's speech to the Foreign Press ' > Association on terrorism and security  >  > Thursday September 1, 2005 > K > The disastrous decision to invade Iraq has made Britain a more dangerous  H > place. The war did not create the danger of Islamic terrorism in this J > country, which had been growing internationally even before the tragedy G > of the attacks on 9/11. However the decision by the UK government to  I > become the leading ally of President Bush in the Iraq debacle has made  < > Britain one of the foremost targets for Islamic extremists > "   F Thanks.  I was, in fact, at least fuzzily aware that the Conservative E party opposed the war:  it was the rest of their platform that I was  C alluding to above, which in my already admittedly fuzzy perception  D raised the issue of whether it is better to have the country run by B fools and/or knaves or by people who may also suffer from similar G liabilities plus others as well (though not, of course, that of having  H dragged the country into an unnecessary, illegal, and immoral war - and H those of us in the distant colonies should take care not to confuse Ken H Clarke with that champion of civil liberties Charles Clarke as well, as  I just nearly did).    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 01:51:00 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> G Subject: Re: Need VT320 Terminal settings to hook up a MicroVax 3100-40 , Message-ID: <4327BA2D.CE0D150D@teksavvy.com>   stewart allen wrote: >  > M > I received a MicroVAX 3100-40 (BA42B), a VT320 terminal, lk201 keyboard and  > a MMJ cable.    A > Now I need to know what should the settings be on the terminal. J > Also some common commands (assuming the thing starts up) since I will beA > trying to find out: installed OS, hard drive size, Memory, etc.     D You can try 9600 baud, 8 bits, no parity, XON-XOFF flow control.  IfF that doesn't work, try a higher speed. (depending on what the previousA owner had set the speed to , it is in nonvolatile memory inside).   E Once you power up, you should see some text displayed fairly quickly, > and once the self tests are done, the machine will either boot1 automatically or get to the chevron prompy of >>>   4 at the >>> prompt, you can type HELP for basic help.  + >>> BOOT will boot from the default device.   8 >>> SHOW DEV  will show the currently connected devices.  < >>> HELP SHOW may give you move options on the SHOW command.    F If the disk drive is DKA200 for instance, you can B DKA200 and it willJ boot from that disk. (it may be set to boot from the ethernet by default).   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 02:03:03 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> G Subject: Re: Need VT320 Terminal settings to hook up a MicroVax 3100-40 0 Message-ID: <11ifevpcbcjlc00@corp.supernews.com>   stewart allen wrote: >   N > I received a MicroVAX 3100-40 (BA42B), a VT320 terminal, lk201 keyboard and G > a MMJ cable. (I am relatively new to this but asked some preliminary  N > questions). Now I need to know what should the settings be on the terminal. K > Also some common commands (assuming the thing starts up) since I will be  A > trying to find out: installed OS, hard drive size, Memory, etc.  >  > Thanks in advance  > Stewart Allen  >  >   @ Ypu really need to look at the VMS FAQ.  The answers to all you & questions are in there, and much more.  I Set the terminal to 9600 baud.  I forget which jack is the console port.     Try the left most one.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:33:26 -0700 " From: Eric Bruno <eric@ebruno.org>6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS  FTP server with these features ?1 Message-ID: <xd2dnYEpg87dWbreRVn-vw@giganews.com>    briggs@encompasserve.org wrote: s > In article <gK56jXDfOgxj@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:  > V >>In article <oQ0OInx8BSKJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>, briggs@encompasserve.org writes: >>H >>>Read what I wrote the next time.  Or read RFC 959.  You have no clue. >>& >>   I have read the RFC.  Many times. >>H >>   In real life UNIX programmers expect bytes.  They're going to writeD >>   a program that assumes the restart parameter is in bytes.  TheyH >>   don't care that they're wrong, because they assume you can transferC >>   anything in binary and fix it up with unix2dos or dos2unix, so 3 >>   they'll stick to they're byte-stream thinking.  >>F >>   Which means real life implementations will ignore the marker sentF >>   by the remote system, look at how many bytes are in the file, andB >>   send that assuming that was what the last marker value should >>   have been.  RFC be damned.  >  > + > Ahah.  That makes things much more clear.  >   > Which then means you can have: > 8 > 1. High performance positioning for compliant clients.? > 2. High performance positioning for broken clients as long as ( >    the file is fixed or stream format.E > 3. Low performance positioning for broken clients on all other file 
 >    formats. 8 > 4. High reliability positioning for compliant clients.J > 5. High reliability positioning for broken clients with binary transfers3 > 6. Low reliability positioning for everyone else.  > # > Does that sum things up properly?  >  > 	John BriggsK In order to do this you cleanly you have extend both the server and client.   A One of the problems you have is that RFC959 has "minimum" set of  G commands that can be implemented and still be "compliant" which leaves  A out lot of functionality.  Most FTP's only implement stream mode. ) block mode is not required by the RFC959.   F You can implement the behavior the John Briggs discussed in an manner  that would be FTP "compliant".  , If you want to extend FTP you should look atD RFC2389 Feature negotiation mechanism for the File Transfer Protocol RFC2228 FTP Security Extensions  RFC1579 Firewall-Friendly FTP   ( These RFC's give a framework to work to.  I Starting in 1999 the company I worked for developed a ftp server (Tru64,  0 HP-UX,Solaris,AIX, Linux (c), Windows Java only)G and clients (Tru64, HP-UX,Solaris,AIX, Linux (c and Java, Windows Java  4 only) from scratch to address these types of issues.3 (www.solution-soft.com See SafeVelocity) VMS is not < one platforms we support though we did have some interest in? 2000/2001. I actually got our Java client to run on OpenVMS 7.2 7 but the customer lost interest so we never got to doing  the server even for a demo.   
 Eric Bruno   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Sep 2005 12:00:53 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS  FTP server with these features ?3 Message-ID: <bEG63nrzeiYI@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <43276AD3.F6C39305@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:I > I don't seem to find *ANY* FTP clients that support "REST[ART]". I find . > some that understand "REGET", but that's it.  F Don't be an idiot.  An FTP client has two interfaces.  And you're only' looking at one of them.  The wrong one.   G > I'm not sure what purpose a server's REST[ART] command would serve if & > the client doesn't understand REGET.  4 What if the client has a pushbutton for "try again"?   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Sep 2005 12:02:45 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS  FTP server with these features ?3 Message-ID: <FWUJlHHYdgf8@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <43276B32.C8B23F2B@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: > Alan Greig wrote:  >>   >> Bob Koehler wrote:  >>  I >> >    Which means real life implementations will ignore the marker sent I >> >    by the remote system, look at how many bytes are in the file, and E >> >    send that assuming that was what the last marker value should " >> >    have been.  RFC be damned. >>  H >> But even if they do that the VMS server can work out exactly where toJ >> start sending again. Byte 183634 of the file as perceived by the clientK >>   will still be byte 183634 of the file if sent again. So the VMS sender ' >> can still work out where to skip to.  > F > ...which would mean re-reading the input file to count bytes (in theH > case of sequential-variable). So, it wouldn't "skip", it would "slew".  J Tomato, tomahto.  Alan is perfectly aware of the performance implications.   	John Briggs   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Sep 2005 12:26:01 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS  FTP server with these features ?3 Message-ID: <h2VSJZgHqQPT@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <4327766C.7BF00B51@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Alan Greig wrote: H >> But even if they do that the VMS server can work out exactly where toJ >> start sending again. Byte 183634 of the file as perceived by the clientK >>   will still be byte 183634 of the file if sent again. So the VMS sender ' >> can still work out where to skip to.  >  > D > If VMS sends out markers in spanish, and the Unix system sends outB > request to restart in Russian, then even if the request containsH > "usable" sata, it isn't in the format/language expected by VMS and VMS  > won't know what to do with it.  I The spec doesn't require VMS to understand either "Russian" or "Spanish". B The sending server is merely required to recognize markers that it emitted.  E > So the VMS servers should send out markers that contain the textual L > representation of the byte count in a format expected by the Unix clients.  < The claim made previously is that broken Unix clients ignoreC restart markers and forge restart requests by taking bytes received  and encoding that in decimal.   B It would be silly for the VMS system to encode its restart markers? in any particular manner for the benefit of clients that aren't  going to read them anyway.  @ A reasonable implementation strategy might be to compose restart@ markers using RFA's and prefix the resulting string with an "R".  A When receiving a restart request from the client the server could C then distinguish between a legitimate request containing an encoded A RFA and a forged request containing a decimal format byte offset.   G > However, if the RFC says that the marker is an opaque value, then the I > VMS server could not be faulted to send a marker in chinese (eg: RFA).  I > If the lcinet doesn'T abide by the RFC, then its is the client's fault.   D Yes.  Clearly the clients are non-compliant.  Which is scant comfortF when the users are braying that their client works with everyone elses server -- why not yours?   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 01:46:49 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 1 Subject: RENAME behaviour (no message when error) , Message-ID: <4327B933.45DD405C@teksavvy.com>  C Tried to rename a file to a new directory and it seemed to work. No  error message was issued.   =  (that is what we VMS folks have been trained to do, right ?)   F Scratched my head on why the file wasn't in the new directory. Scanned1 the dirve for its name, but nothing, nada, zilch.   G Only later did I realise that the new directory was on a different disk E drive (rooted logicals were involved in directory names) and that the # rename actually didn't do anything.   D Note that just before that, I tried to rename the same file to a nonG existant directory and rename then complained abou target directory not H existing. In both cases, the target directory was on a different device.    G Shouldn't rename generate and error message when it is unable to rename  a file across a device ?  E Consider the case of a command procedure that moves files around with G RENAME using rooted logicals that are on the same device. But later on, G some system manager moves files to a new device and the rooted logicals D updated accordingly. A procedure which worked for decades would stopE working, but without an error message by RENAME, people would scratch C their heads because the first error message would be caused by some ) statement some distance below the rename.    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:30:17 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)5 Subject: Re: RENAME behaviour (no message when error) $ Message-ID: <dg8qj9$ul5$1@online.de>  5 In article <4327B933.45DD405C@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei ' <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:    I > Shouldn't rename generate and error message when it is unable to rename  > a file across a device ? > G > Consider the case of a command procedure that moves files around with I > RENAME using rooted logicals that are on the same device. But later on, I > some system manager moves files to a new device and the rooted logicals F > updated accordingly. A procedure which worked for decades would stopG > working, but without an error message by RENAME, people would scratch E > their heads because the first error message would be caused by some + > statement some distance below the rename.   H If you move a file from one device to another, then you should use COPY F or BACKUP and DELETE, not RENAME.  It might work if there are not two F different real devices, but if a rooted-logical device is supposed to H behave like a real device in most contexts, then it makes sense to have ) your procedures treat it as such as well.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 05:20:14 -0700 ( From: Jeff Cameron <roktsci@comcast.net>5 Subject: Re: RENAME behaviour (no message when error) 0 Message-ID: <BF4D638E.14003%roktsci@comcast.net>  J On 9/13/05 10:46 PM, in article 4327B933.45DD405C@teksavvy.com, "JF Mezei"% <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:   E > Tried to rename a file to a new directory and it seemed to work. No  > error message was issued.  > ? >  (that is what we VMS folks have been trained to do, right ?)  > H > Scratched my head on why the file wasn't in the new directory. Scanned3 > the dirve for its name, but nothing, nada, zilch.  > I > Only later did I realise that the new directory was on a different disk G > drive (rooted logicals were involved in directory names) and that the % > rename actually didn't do anything.  > F > Note that just before that, I tried to rename the same file to a nonI > existant directory and rename then complained abou target directory not J > existing. In both cases, the target directory was on a different device. >  > I > Shouldn't rename generate and error message when it is unable to rename  > a file across a device ? > G > Consider the case of a command procedure that moves files around with I > RENAME using rooted logicals that are on the same device. But later on, I > some system manager moves files to a new device and the rooted logicals F > updated accordingly. A procedure which worked for decades would stopG > working, but without an error message by RENAME, people would scratch E > their heads because the first error message would be caused by some + > statement some distance below the rename.   H Please Show Examples! I could not duplicate the issue. Maybe I'm missing something. What version of VMS?    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Sep 2005 10:30:09 +01006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)C Subject: Re: [OpenVMS V7.3-2] ANA/DI/REP SYS$SYSDEVICE hangs system , Message-ID: <4327fbb1$1@news.langstoeger.at>  j In article <6.2.5.4.2.20050913190149.022b0500@patmedia.net>, Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn1@patmedia.net> writes:B >At 06:20 PM 9/13/2005, Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote (in part):M >>So, how to repair a system disk, which can't be repaired in parts and won't  >>complete if done as a whole ?  > : >Boot your system from a CD. Mount you system drive and do >  >$$$ ana/disk/norep drive % >$$$ ana/disk/rep drive   ! if needed   @ Which I can't do without disbounding the shadowset and thereforeF there is not much difference to what I did. A shadowcopy is required.   G >If you did an $ana/disk/norepair of the system disk on a live system,  G >some of the "errors" may actually be the result of the system working.   C This was not the case here. Most of the errors (~15k) were hardlink G errors of existing files. And the other big group were files marked for C delete (of PATHWORKS section files and opsys files already replaced % like DCLTABLES.EXE and driver files).    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.514 ************************