1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 15 Sep 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 515       Contents:
 Re: a sad day , Re: Does going to VMS 8.? require recompiles/ Re: Finding directory file of current directory / Re: Finding directory file of current directory / Re: Finding directory file of current directory / Re: Finding directory file of current directory / Re: Finding directory file of current directory / Re: Finding directory file of current directory / Re: Finding directory file of current directory / Re: Finding directory file of current directory / Re: Finding directory file of current directory / Re: Finding directory file of current directory   HP SWB V1.7.8 consistent crasher* Re: HP to dump itanium - bring back alpha?* Re: HP to dump itanium - bring back alpha?* Re: HP to dump itanium - bring back alpha?) Re: HP to lay off 5,000 in France/Europe? ) Re: HP to lay off 5,000 in France/Europe?  Re: i need to buy a vax 11/780 RE: i need to buy a vax 11/780 Re: Itanium Solutions Alliance Re: Itanium Solutions Alliance Keeping OpenVMS in-the-house  Re: Keeping OpenVMS in-the-house  Re: Keeping OpenVMS in-the-house  Re: Keeping OpenVMS in-the-house  Re: Keeping OpenVMS in-the-house  Re: Keeping OpenVMS in-the-house  Re: Keeping OpenVMS in-the-house/ MPEG player with sound for "depth 24" graphics? - Re: OpenVMS  FTP server with these features ? - Re: OpenVMS  FTP server with these features ? - Re: OpenVMS  FTP server with these features ? , Re: OpenVMS FTP server with these features ?& OpenVMS Pearl -  Announcing RTR V5.0 ! OT: WLAN is not a LAN , Re: RENAME behaviour (no message when error), Re: RENAME behaviour (no message when error) Sun using the "I" word Re: Sun using the "I" word Re: Sun using the "I" word Re: Sun using the "I" word Re: Sun using the "I" word Re: Sun using the "I" word Re: Sun using the "I" word' Re: SYSMAN "IO AUTOCONFIGURE" questions   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:08:02 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  Subject: Re: a sad day0 Message-ID: <11ih40q4p0m9l53@corp.supernews.com>   Carl Karcher wrote:   K >  "Under the Bush tax cuts, the 400 taxpayers with the highest incomes - a # >   minimum of $87 million in 2000,   A Isn't that a really sad piece of information.  I cannot think of  L anything one could do to earn 87 million in a year.  Well, worth 87 million.  I It's even more sad that the options people come up with is to just lop a  G hugh chunk off them at the end of the tunnel.  I'd think that lowering  B the mechanisims that create such a large figure would be a better 3 method.  Lower priced products, whatever, GASOLINE!    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 18:34:18 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) 5 Subject: Re: Does going to VMS 8.? require recompiles 3 Message-ID: <K2_Ve.12643$jB4.1773@news.cpqcorp.net>   \ In article <wnZVe.12629$bA4.8009@news.cpqcorp.net>, John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com> writes: :tadamsmar wrote: > :> I wondering how an upgrade from 7.3-2 to 8.something on our; :> Alphas would impact the third party software we use.  Do 3 :> the executable still run on 8 without recompile?  :>  > :Non-privileged applications should be fine.  Device drivers, F :applications with knowledge of system internal data structures, etc. B :will need to be recompiled.  Depends on the third party software.  	   Try it.   @   I'm not certain that Inner-mode code must be rebuilt.  Yes, itC   might well need to be rebuilt -- but we've been making compatible A   kernel-mode changes for a while now through the V7.* range, and C   updating the appropriate kernel subsystem version masks as we go. @   Your inner-mode code might well run unmodified, and unrebuilt.  3   User-mode code is expected to run without change.   D   OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 wasn't a classic major upgrade; the most recent9   one of those for OpenVMS Alpha was OpenVMS Alpha V7.0.    ?   Off-hand, I am aware of very little that won't work -- one of A   the few pieces I've seen blow up was software that was assuming >   that the disk maximum block value DVI$_MAXBLOCK was also the@   disk volume size.  Very little does that, of course -- it just=   happended to be some of my own code, however.  This $getdvi @   assumption can fail even on V7.3-2, with the advent of dynamic<   volume expansion.  (See DVI$_VOLSIZE for the volume size.)  @   As for the kernel-mode major upgrade code, you'll usually know;   right quick if you need to rebuild, usually via the error A   messages I'd expect to see reported by the kernel version masks ?   when you try to load or run an incompatible inner-mode image.       N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 13:29:18 -0500 (CDT) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)8 Subject: Re: Finding directory file of current directory2 Message-ID: <05091413291892_202003A2@antinode.org>   From: "R Boyd" <bob@hax.com>  C > Here's a command procedure I wrote years ago to handle the issue:  [...] " > See if that solves your problem.  F    It probably will unless it encounters a contrary ODS5 extended file name:    ALP $ show default   LDA1:[o5_test.TEST2.a^[b^]c]   ALP $ @ [--]uponedir.com'   PREV_DIR_LEV = "LDA1:[o5_test.TEST2]" 2   CUR_DIR_SPEC = "LDA1:[o5_test.TEST2]a^[b^c].DIR"   ALP $ dir [-]a*.dir    Directory LDA1:[o5_test.TEST2]  
 a^[b^]c.DIR;1    Total of 1 file.  A    Everything's complicated.  (And getting more so all the time.)     . From: JONESD@ecr6.ohio-state.edu (David Jones)  P > While you're at it, how about supporting f$parse(spec,,,"DEVICE+DIRECTORY") or > f$parse(spec,,,"NAME+TYPE")?  )    I've yearned for that one for a while.   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Sep 2005 13:20:08 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>8 Subject: Re: Finding directory file of current directoryB Message-ID: <1126729208.454777.39420@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   Steven M. Schweda wrote: > From: "R Boyd" <bob@hax.com> > E > > Here's a command procedure I wrote years ago to handle the issue:  > [...] $ > > See if that solves your problem. > H >    It probably will unless it encounters a contrary ODS5 extended file > name:   B or just [000000]. It seems to work fine for all other ODS-2 specs.   [...]    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 20:13:54 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 8 Subject: Re: Finding directory file of current directory, Message-ID: <4328BCC2.21BEBD42@teksavvy.com>   Joseph Huber wrote: F > But to what purpose should a procedure want to do that ? If it wantsG > to write in a write-protected directory, then probably redirecting to * > sys$scratch: would be a cleaner solution    F Unpack a zip file into a directory such as dev:[chocolate]. In it is a@ command procedure to complete installation, and it needs to set D ownership and protection on the chocolate.dir file sitting above the current directory.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 21:12:35 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 8 Subject: Re: Finding directory file of current directory0 Message-ID: <11ihib829t7fi0b@corp.supernews.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Joseph Huber wrote:  > F >>But to what purpose should a procedure want to do that ? If it wantsG >>to write in a write-protected directory, then probably redirecting to * >>sys$scratch: would be a cleaner solution >  >  > H > Unpack a zip file into a directory such as dev:[chocolate]. In it is aB > command procedure to complete installation, and it needs to set F > ownership and protection on the chocolate.dir file sitting above the > current directory.  H Maybe I'm missing something here, which wouldn't be unusual, but what's  wrong with:    SET PROT=W:RE [-]chocolate.dir   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 01:15:59 GMT   From: John Santos <john@egh.com>8 Subject: Re: Finding directory file of current directory+ Message-ID: <jX3We.24875$8h6.5024@trnddc09>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Joseph Huber wrote:  > F >>But to what purpose should a procedure want to do that ? If it wantsG >>to write in a write-protected directory, then probably redirecting to * >>sys$scratch: would be a cleaner solution >  >  > H > Unpack a zip file into a directory such as dev:[chocolate]. In it is aB > command procedure to complete installation, and it needs to set F > ownership and protection on the chocolate.dir file sitting above the > current directory.  A Do you know for sure the zip file will unzip into a sub-tree with C "chocolate" at the top level?  I.E. where ever the person doing the @ installation decides to put it, the install command file will be, some_dev:[something...chocolate]install.com?  A Have install.com remember the current default dev: and directory, 8 then get its current dev: and directory (I'm pretty sure? you can get all this info with lexicals) and set default to it. " Then install.com should be able to3    $ set file/owner=.../prot=(...) [-]chocolate.dir .    $ set file/owner=.../prot=(...) [...]*.*;*"  G At the end of install.com, set default back to the saved dev/directory.   C By using self-relative file specs, you should avoid having to parse % anything, which is 99% of the battle.   $ Or package it up to use PCSI :-) :-)     --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 21:40:05 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 8 Subject: Re: Finding directory file of current directory, Message-ID: <4328D0EA.6C394F99@teksavvy.com>   John Santos wrote:C > Do you know for sure the zip file will unzip into a sub-tree with   > "chocolate" at the top level?   H Nop. That is the problem. The install procedure doesn't know the name ofD the current directory level. It can get the full directory spec from= F$environment(). So it is a question of parsing its contents.   & > Or package it up to use PCSI :-) :-)  H PCSI, last time I looked, PCSI sucked for anything more than a glorifiedF UNZIP. The point of my install is to run real DCL , ask questions etc.E With PCSI, you can't run real DCL, it runs under a subprocess without Q assurance that output will be seen by user, nor that prompting will be supported.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 21:24:54 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>8 Subject: Re: Finding directory file of current directory+ Message-ID: <4328DB75.4B8D6E34@comcast.net>    Jilly wrote:= > "David Jones" <JONESD@ecr6.ohio-state.edu> wrote in message 6 > news:dg9fd9$10n$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu...F > > In message <1126709579.823272.72450@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>," > > "R Boyd" <bob@hax.com> writes:J > >>HP (John Gillings?)  Could we please get support for F$ELEMENT(-n,...)J > >>added to DCL?  Then it would be easier to pick off the LAST element of1 > >>a list.   In the same spirit as <filename>;-n  > > , > > While you're at it, how about supporting) > > f$parse(spec,,,"DEVICE+DIRECTORY") or   > > f$parse(spec,,,"NAME+TYPE")? > >  > > @ > > David L. Jones               |      Phone:    (614) 271-67181 > > Ohio State University        |      Internet: " > > 140 W. 19th St.              |# > > jonesd@er6s1.eng.ohio-state.edu > > > Columbus, OH 43210           |               vman+@osu.edu > > 5 > > Disclaimer: I'm looking for marbles all day long.  > 5 > Good ideas.  I'll log them on our internal systems.    Then, I'll add my $0.02...   How 'bout adding:   4 $ X = F$PARSE( "SYS$STARTUP:SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM",,,, - 		"NO_TRANSLATE,SYNTAX_ONLY" )  H ...so the DIRECTORY item would return a null string, and the DEVICE itemH would return "SYS$STARTUP:" instead of "SYS$SYSROOT:" for the DEVICE andD "[SYS$STARTUP]" for the DIRECTORY (SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM usually doesn't+ live there, though I suppose its possible).   G I also like the idea of being able to return multiple items in a single  invocation:    $ path := device,directory$ $ floc = f$parse( filespec,,, path )  G ...or perhaps negate what you don't want returned and get the rest in a  single call:  5 $ fsp = f$parse( filespec,,, "nodevice,nodirectory" )   @ (No, I *WON'T* tell what I'm on, and no, you can't have any! ;-)   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 21:32:02 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>8 Subject: Re: Finding directory file of current directory+ Message-ID: <4328DD22.E080E4BC@comcast.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > John Santos wrote:E > > Do you know for sure the zip file will unzip into a sub-tree with ! > > "chocolate" at the top level?  > J > Nop. That is the problem. The install procedure doesn't know the name of > the current directory level.  G Then, I might infer that the installation creates the target directory, B if it's missing, in which case I would suggest using, for example:  4 $ CREATE/DIRECT [.CHOCOLATE]/PROT=mask/OWN=owner_uic  E However, if the directory already exists, changing the security of an * existing path might be a brash assumption.  ) > It can get the full directory spec from ? > F$environment(). So it is a question of parsing its contents.   G Again, assuming you're thinking of F$ENVI( "DEFAULT" ), yes, that would  be true.   > ( > > Or package it up to use PCSI :-) :-) > J > PCSI, last time I looked, PCSI sucked for anything more than a glorifiedH > UNZIP. The point of my install is to run real DCL , ask questions etc.G > With PCSI, you can't run real DCL, it runs under a subprocess without S > assurance that output will be seen by user, nor that prompting will be supported.   < Didn't Didier whip up a PCSI "cookbook"? Anyone have a link?   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 23:42:36 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 8 Subject: Re: Finding directory file of current directory0 Message-ID: <11ihr4jcd3n4549@corp.supernews.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > John Santos wrote: > C >>Do you know for sure the zip file will unzip into a sub-tree with   >>"chocolate" at the top level?  >  > J > Nop. That is the problem. The install procedure doesn't know the name ofF > the current directory level. It can get the full directory spec from? > F$environment(). So it is a question of parsing its contents.  >  > & >>Or package it up to use PCSI :-) :-) >  > J > PCSI, last time I looked, PCSI sucked for anything more than a glorifiedH > UNZIP. The point of my install is to run real DCL , ask questions etc.G > With PCSI, you can't run real DCL, it runs under a subprocess without S > assurance that output will be seen by user, nor that prompting will be supported.   E Ok, my DCL is a bit rusty, and I have no ODS-5 experience, never yet  K found a reason to use ODS-5, but the following is a short proof of concept:    DFE90A::DFEUL> t x.com $$ wso :== write SYS$OUTPUT  $  $ CurDir :== 'F$DIRECTORY() 0 $ wso "The current directory path is: ''CurDir'" $  $ set default [-]  $ TopDir :== 'F$DIRECTORY() 5 $ wso "The directory path up one level is: ''TopDir'"  $  $ set default 'CurDir  $  $ X1 = F$LENGTH(TopDir)   $ X2 = F$LENGTH(CurDir) - X1 - 1 $ & $ ThisDir :== 'F$EXTRACT(X1,X2,CurDir)= $ wso "The name of the current directory file is: ''ThisDir'"  DFE90A::DFEUL> @x - The current directory path is: [DFEUL.DETACH] + The directory path up one level is: [DFEUL] 1 The name of the current directory file is: DETACH   E Should work with both '[' and '<'.  Haven't done any serious testing.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 01:26:40 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 8 Subject: Re: Finding directory file of current directory, Message-ID: <432905F7.7C87D2DF@teksavvy.com>   Dave Froble wrote: > $ X1 = F$LENGTH(TopDir) " > $ X2 = F$LENGTH(CurDir) - X1 - 1 > $ ( > $ ThisDir :== 'F$EXTRACT(X1,X2,CurDir)? > $ wso "The name of the current directory file is: ''ThisDir'"  > DFE90A::DFEUL> @x / > The current directory path is: [DFEUL.DETACH] - > The directory path up one level is: [DFEUL] 3 > The name of the current directory file is: DETACH     H I was thinking along those lines too. However, the above is not perfect.  " if current directory is  DEV:[PIE]  3 set DEF [.-] makes current directory : DEV:[000000]   E The lengths can't be used to isolate the difference between the upper B and current dirs especially since in my example, the length of theH current directory is shorter than the length of its parent directory :-)  Q However, this might be mitigated by testing for [000000] in the parent directory.     E I was hoping there was a simple magic incantation that would solve my  problem. But I guess not.   B Also CREATE/DIR will not apply owner and protection on an existingG directory. So even if my installation procedure insists on creating its G own directory structure, there is no assurance that this directory will % bear the attributes that are desired.     D If SET DIRECTORY command had /PROT , it would have made my life much easier (it already has /OWNER).    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 22:16:33 -0500 % From: JORDAN <rjordan@mindspring.com> ) Subject: HP SWB V1.7.8 consistent crasher 1 Message-ID: <JqSdnbZHq90aR7XeRVn-iA@megapath.net>   D I'm posting here because I don't have a graphics-capable alpha underG support so I could submit through channels.  Please let me know if you  E get the same symptoms, and maybe one of the VMS folks will have some  
 info on this.   I I run HPSWB (Mozilla) on a PWS600au, 1GB RAM, VMS V7.3-2, TCPIP V5.4 eco  H 5, DWMotif V1.3-1.  The system is using a KZPCM SCSI/NET interface, and H a Powerstorm 4D20 card. VMS PCSI V1 and UPDATE V4 patches are installed;F nothing newer so far (though I'll be bringing the rest up to date soon0 now that I have better bandwidth for downloads).  A SWB V1.7.8 will crash 100% reliably by visiting either of the two H following commercial sites, then trying to go to another site or click aE link on the displayed page.  I've tried using a bookmark or a history E item to move to another page I know works (www.earthlink.com, google, " etc) and the browser crashes hard.  F Sample dump follows; the dump in each crash instance is the same.  TheH vertical formatting has been tweaked so they hopefully show up usably in a post.   G Since the first entries listed in the dump are DECW$XTLIBSHRR5, but the H first part of the program is the LIBFLASHPLUGIN plugin, it seems logicalF to suspect a problem in the plugin, or in the X-windows routines it isE calling.  I remember getting errors in the past when visiting a site  + that used Flash; usually a version warning.   = Mozilla V1.7 has the same problem with these sites on my box.   H If anyone else could try it and let me know what happens, I'd appreciate it   Rich  > ==============================================================   $ cswb Starting MOZILLA-BIN...   > Gtk-WARNING **: invalid cast from `GtkSuperWin' to `GtkWidget'  > Gtk-WARNING **: invalid cast from `GtkSuperWin' to `GtkWidget'  > Gtk-WARNING **: invalid cast from `GtkSuperWin' to `GtkWidget'; %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual : address=0000000000000028, PC=0000000002B20D48, PS=0000001B/ %TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump follows @ image    module    routine     line      rel PC           abs PCE DECW$XTLIBSHRR5                   0 0000000000044D48 0000000002B20D48 E DECW$XTLIBSHRR5                   0 0000000000045220 0000000002B21220 E DECW$XTLIBSHRR5                   0 0000000000045E70 0000000002B21E70 # LIBFLASHPLUGIN  PLUGIN  NPP_Destroy F                                25280 0000000000000488 0000000004430488% LIBGKPLUGIN  NS4XPLUGININSTANCE  Stop F                               103761 00000000000025E4 0000000002C5A7B4# LIBGKLAYOUT  NSOBJECTFRAME  Destroy F                               123778 00000000000035F4 0000000001764354' LIBGKLAYOUT  NSFRAMELIST  DestroyFrames E                               47173 0000000000000074 00000000018F8D34 & LIBGKLAYOUT  NSCONTAINERFRAME  DestroyE                               61462 00000000000005C4 0000000001723764 (   LIBGKLAYOUT  NSLINEBOX  DeleteLineListE                               64760 0000000000000684 00000000017599E4 $   LIBGKLAYOUT  NSBLOCKFRAME  DestroyE                               74696 0000000000000554 000000000170E974 (   LIBGKLAYOUT  NSLINEBOX  DeleteLineListE                               64760 0000000000000684 00000000017599E4 $   LIBGKLAYOUT  NSBLOCKFRAME  DestroyE                               74696 0000000000000554 000000000170E974 )   LIBGKLAYOUT  NSFRAMELIST  DestroyFrames E                               47173 0000000000000074 00000000018F8D34 (   LIBGKLAYOUT  NSCONTAINERFRAME  DestroyE                               61462 00000000000005C4 0000000001723764 )   LIBGKLAYOUT  NSFRAMELIST  DestroyFrames E                               47173 0000000000000074 00000000018F8D34 (   LIBGKLAYOUT  NSCONTAINERFRAME  DestroyE                               61462 00000000000005C4 0000000001723764 )   LIBGKLAYOUT  NSFRAMELIST  DestroyFrames E                               47173 0000000000000074 00000000018F8D34 (   LIBGKLAYOUT  NSCONTAINERFRAME  DestroyE                               61462 00000000000005C4 0000000001723764 )   LIBGKLAYOUT  NSFRAMELIST  DestroyFrames E                               47173 0000000000000074 00000000018F8D34 (   LIBGKLAYOUT  NSCONTAINERFRAME  DestroyE                               61462 00000000000005C4 0000000001723764 )   LIBGKLAYOUT  NSFRAMELIST  DestroyFrames E                               47173 0000000000000074 00000000018F8D34 (   LIBGKLAYOUT  NSCONTAINERFRAME  DestroyE                               61462 00000000000005C4 0000000001723764 (   LIBGKLAYOUT  NSLINEBOX  DeleteLineListE                               64760 0000000000000684 00000000017599E4 $   LIBGKLAYOUT  NSBLOCKFRAME  DestroyE                               74696 0000000000000554 000000000170E974 (   LIBGKLAYOUT  NSLINEBOX  DeleteLineListE                               64760 0000000000000684 00000000017599E4 $   LIBGKLAYOUT  NSBLOCKFRAME  DestroyE                               74696 0000000000000554 000000000170E974 )   LIBGKLAYOUT  NSFRAMELIST  DestroyFrames E                               47173 0000000000000074 00000000018F8D34 (   LIBGKLAYOUT  NSCONTAINERFRAME  DestroyE                               61462 00000000000005C4 0000000001723764 )   LIBGKLAYOUT  NSFRAMELIST  DestroyFrames E                               47173 0000000000000074 00000000018F8D34 (   LIBGKLAYOUT  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000000000170E974 (   LIBGKLAYOUT  NSLINEBOX  DeleteLineListE                               64760 0000000000000684 00000000017599E4 $   LIBGKLAYOUT  NSBLOCKFRAME  DestroyE                               74696 0000000000000554 000000000170E974 )   LIBGKLAYOUT  NSFRAMELIST  DestroyFrames E                               47173 0000000000000074 00000000018F8D34 (   LIBGKLAYOUT  NSCONTAINERFRAME  DestroyE                               61462 00000000000005C4 0000000001723764 #   LIBGKLAYOUT  NSHTMLFRAME  Destroy E                               66927 000000000000093C 0000000001741CAC )   LIBGKLAYOUT  NSFRAMELIST  DestroyFrames E                               47173 0000000000000074 00000000018F8D34 (   LIBGKLAYOUT  NSCONTAINERFRAME  DestroyE                               61462 00000000000005C4 0000000001723764 "   LIBGKLAYOUT  NSBOXFRAME  DestroyE                               65613 0000000000004C18 00000000018779A8 )   LIBGKLAYOUT  NSFRAMELIST  DestroyFrames E                               47173 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                  123007 0000000000013474 000000000178F014 .   LIBGKLAYOUT  NSPRESSHELL  UnsuppressPaintingE                              123055 000000000001377C 000000000178F31C    LIBXPCOM  NSTIMERIMPL  Fire E                               23707 0000000000001104 0000000000EB22E4 )   LIBXPCOM  NSTIMERIMPL  handleTimerEvent E                               23769 000000000000125C 0000000000EB243C #   LIBXPCOM  PLEVENT  PL_HandleEvent E                               41110 0000000000000E08 0000000000EB3FE8 ,   LIBXPCOM  PLEVENT  PL_ProcessPendingEventsE                               41045 0000000000000CAC 0000000000EB3E8C .   LIBXPCOM  NSEVENTQUEUE  ProcessPendingEventsE                               29854 0000000000001674 0000000000EACBF4 .   LIBWIDGET_GTK  NSAPPSHELL  our_gdk_io_invokeE                               63016 0000000000000064 000000000236C144 !   LIBGLIB  GMAIN  g_main_dispatch E                               19265 0000000000000B80 00000000004D1FD0     LIBGLIB  GMAIN  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FFFFFFFF80263E94    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:58:43 -0400 2 From: "Paul A. Jacobi" <Paul.Jacobi@nospam.hp.com>3 Subject: Re: HP to dump itanium - bring back alpha? , Message-ID: <43289dc2$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  ; "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message  & news:432800AA.A02F7A81@teksavvy.com... > Robert Deininger wrote: I > I was under the impression that the current crop of IA64 chips were all F > the same. Or are there IA64 chips being produced today by Intel thatD > have different speeds when sold and integrated into machines being > assembled NOW ?     J The official Intel price list has 14 different variation of the Itanium 2 
 processor.  - http://www.intel.com/intel/finance/pricelist/      Paul A. Jacobi OpenVMS Systems group  Nashua, NH     ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 20:53:10 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 3 Subject: Re: HP to dump itanium - bring back alpha? , Message-ID: <4328C5EF.42EC57A8@teksavvy.com>   "Paul A. Jacobi" wrote: K > The official Intel price list has 14 different variation of the Itanium 2  > processor. > / > http://www.intel.com/intel/finance/pricelist/    Thanks for pointer.   H Would the slower variations with much lesser cache be current production6 models, or leftover stock of previously fabbed chips ?  E If they are current production models, would the 1 Ghz with 1.5meg of @ cache be of the same mask as the 9meg 1.66ghz chip ? (eg: due toE defects, they disable most of the cache and slow down the clock until  the chip works).   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 05:34:25 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com 3 Subject: Re: HP to dump itanium - bring back alpha? - Message-ID: <87oe6v72qm.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:   = > Read an article about Intel having managed to keep its 8086 , > manufacturing costs to about $40 per chip.  A I wonder if that includes test and package? If not, it means they = get about 100 good chips per wafer. Assuming a $4K wafer cost . rather than the quoted industry number of $3K.  5 Anyone got the chip dimentions to calulate the yeild?    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Sep 2005 11:54:21 -0700 From: mark_hpq@yahoo.com2 Subject: Re: HP to lay off 5,000 in France/Europe?C Message-ID: <1126724061.740064.260570@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   ) Information about the layoffs in France :    http://cftchp.blogspot.com/    http://cftchp.free.fr/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 21:08:25 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>2 Subject: Re: HP to lay off 5,000 in France/Europe?+ Message-ID: <4328D799.B72258AD@comcast.net>    S wrote: >  > Bill Gunshannon wrote:K > > Gee, I have the answer to Mr. Destot.  Close the Grnoble plant entirely ' > > and bring the jobs back to America.  > F > So they can fire 5900 americans. Swell solution you've got (was it a
 > solution?).   < I guess I missed something: if we bring 5900 jobs to AmericaF (understanding that few, if any, of the current workers would considerF relocating), how does that displace even one U.S. worker? Doesn't that' put up to 5900 Americans into new jobs?   F Are we THAT deep into the "let's ship all our jobs overseas" mentality5 that the concept of bucking the trend is unthinkable?    <rant>E ...and when there's no native-born Americans holding blue-collar jobs A anymore, how many trillionaires will there be compared to today's D multi-billionaire count? Imagine the minimum wage being three-digitsB before the decimal place, avareage personal incomes in the tens ofF millions, median home prices in the hundreds of billions, ... How long= can it keep spiralling upward before the unthinkable happens?   ' GAD! - I wish I could grok economics...  </rant>    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 00:48:35 GMT   From: John Santos <john@egh.com>' Subject: Re: i need to buy a vax 11/780 + Message-ID: <Dx3We.24871$8h6.9909@trnddc09>    Main, Kerry wrote: >  >>-----Original Message-----= >>From: prep@prep.synonet.com [mailto:prep@prep.synonet.com]  " >>Sent: September 13, 2005 4:20 PM >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ) >>Subject: Re: i need to buy a vax 11/780  >>. >>"d b turner" <dbturner@islandco.com> writes: >> >>= >>>please call 912-4476622 if you have a working one for sale  >>! >>With good SBI cables as well...  >>- >>Can you give us the `good oil' on this one?  >> >>--  > >>Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,9 >>+61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. B >>                                             West Australia 6076 >  >  > > > Boy, not that comment on SBI cables brings back memories :-) > G > I used to do CS country support for the 780's and one of the things I ; > did was hard wire a "wrap-around" SBI cable connector for F > troubleshooting these cables. For those who did not know about theseG > little beasties, they could provide lots of grey hair very quickly as " > folks had intermittent problems. > F > The wrap-around connector simply connected each SBI in a wrap aroundH > manner so that you could use a std ohm-meter to measure the resistanceG > of the entire end to end connection. With the connector on, you could H > also lightly tap various connectors to see which ones might have flaky > connections ..  C Did the flaky SBI connectors also occur on 785's.  (I think the SBI E was identical.)  This could explain a hair-pulling problem from about 
 15 years ago.   C We had a driver for the DV11, a sync/async Unibus comms multiplexer E of about the same vintage as the DH11.  (Custom 9-slot backplane with C quad modem cards identical to the DH11-D's in the 1st and 9th slots A a bunch of hex cards in the middle, including up to 4 line cards, @ each of which supported 4 comm lines.  There were sync and asyncE line cards which you could mix and match.  At one time, we had dozens B of these things, mostly on 11/70's (RSTS/E) and 11/780's and a few
 8600's (VMS).   E One customer site had a cluster (very early, the original system disk D was a dual-ported RP06!) with an 11/780 and an 11/785.  The DV11 wasB on the 780.  Worked fine for years.  Then they needed more CPU andA replaced the 780 with a 6000-620 (or maybe a 6630), and moved the A DV11 and some other comm gear to the 11/785.  It started crashing  a lot, every few days.  G I tracked it down to memory (non-paged pool) corruption, and eventually D discovered the "8" bit in the low byte of the 2nd longword after theD end of DMA buffer was sometimes getting set.  If it was allocated toE something else, and wasn't already set, and whatever owned the buffer E cared about the value, the result was usually a crash.  User programs C tended to specify buffers that were a multiple of 4 bytes long (80, C 128, 132 and 512 bytes were common), so the thing 2 longwords after C the end of the buffer was often the backlink of a freelist entry in ( pool, which would usually cause a crash.  D DEC could never find any problem with the system, SBI, UBA, or DV11.  E Eventually, I modified the driver to over-allocate buffers by 8 or 16 E bytes, clear the extra space, and then log an error (and continue) if E any of the "after the buffer" bytes was non-zero.  About two or three A times a week, it would log an error, always showing an "8" in the C suspect byte.  The same driver installed on many other systems (and D back-ported to RSTS/E) never logged any of these errors; it was just= this one 785.  Would an SBI cable problem be this consistent?   D The last data link using the DV11 was scheduled to go away (replacedB with something TCP/IPish) in late 1999 (Y2K problems with the dataA source, and since they had to re-write it anyway, they decided to D dump the IBM 2780 emulation they were using for the data transfers.)> In early 1999, with only months to live, the DV decided it wasA time to break.  It took a week to fix.  Local (3rd party) service ? guy couldn't fix it, called in the regional guy, who called for B more help, who gave up and called DEC.  The DEC local guy couldn'tB fix it, called his regional support guy, called Maynard...  At oneC point I think we had 2 guys from the 3rd party maintenance company, @ and 4 from DEC plus me on site.  They were replacing backplanes, power supplies, ...   E Eventually, they went back to square one, and the floppy diagnostics. ? Went through the boards one at a time until they got everything E working.  In the mean time, I got the 11/785 startup procedure really B cleaned up, and got it down to under 15 minutes from typing "B" onB the console until I could log in and crash it again.  (Really made* me appreciate how fast our Alphas booted.)  > I think it was a bad power supply plus 1 bad board in the DV11, plus many bad boards in all the spares kits.  @ After it was all working again, the old faithful "bogus 8 in the5 2nd longword after the buffer" came back on schedule!     G > Ahhhh, the good ole days when Customers did not look at you nervously ? > when you said you were going to the car to get your 'scope ..   A Hmmm.  Just found our Tektronix scope in the back of a cabinet in % the basement about 15 minutes ago :-)    > :-)  > 	 > Regards  >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultant  > HP Services Canada > Voice: 613-592-4660  > Fax: 613-591-4477  > kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom > (remove the DOT's and AT)  > 6 > OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. >  >      --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 22:45:50 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> ' Subject: RE: i need to buy a vax 11/780 R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB6B28AC@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----, > From: John Santos [mailto:john@egh.com]=20" > Sent: September 14, 2005 8:49 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ) > Subject: Re: i need to buy a vax 11/780  >=20 > Main, Kerry wrote: > >=20 > >>-----Original Message-----A > >>From: prep@prep.synonet.com [mailto:prep@prep.synonet.com]=20 $ > >>Sent: September 13, 2005 4:20 PM > >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com + > >>Subject: Re: i need to buy a vax 11/780  > >>0 > >>"d b turner" <dbturner@islandco.com> writes: > >> > >>? > >>>please call 912-4476622 if you have a working one for sale  > >># > >>With good SBI cables as well...  > >>/ > >>Can you give us the `good oil' on this one?  > >>	 > >>--=20 @ > >>Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,; > >>+61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. D > >>                                             West Australia 6076 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20@ > > Boy, not that comment on SBI cables brings back memories :-) > >=20? > > I used to do CS country support for the 780's and one of=20  > the things I= > > did was hard wire a "wrap-around" SBI cable connector for H > > troubleshooting these cables. For those who did not know about theseA > > little beasties, they could provide lots of grey hair very=20  > quickly as$ > > folks had intermittent problems. > >=20H > > The wrap-around connector simply connected each SBI in a wrap aroundB > > manner so that you could use a std ohm-meter to measure the=20 > resistanceB > > of the entire end to end connection. With the connector on,=20 > you could B > > also lightly tap various connectors to see which ones might=20 > have flaky > > connections .. >=20E > Did the flaky SBI connectors also occur on 785's.  (I think the SBI G > was identical.)  This could explain a hair-pulling problem from about  > 15 years ago.  >=20E > We had a driver for the DV11, a sync/async Unibus comms multiplexer G > of about the same vintage as the DH11.  (Custom 9-slot backplane with E > quad modem cards identical to the DH11-D's in the 1st and 9th slots C > a bunch of hex cards in the middle, including up to 4 line cards, B > each of which supported 4 comm lines.  There were sync and asyncG > line cards which you could mix and match.  At one time, we had dozens D > of these things, mostly on 11/70's (RSTS/E) and 11/780's and a few > 8600's (VMS).  >=20G > One customer site had a cluster (very early, the original system disk F > was a dual-ported RP06!) with an 11/780 and an 11/785.  The DV11 wasD > on the 780.  Worked fine for years.  Then they needed more CPU andC > replaced the 780 with a 6000-620 (or maybe a 6630), and moved the C > DV11 and some other comm gear to the 11/785.  It started crashing  > a lot, every few days. >=20A > I tracked it down to memory (non-paged pool) corruption, and=20  > eventuallyF > discovered the "8" bit in the low byte of the 2nd longword after theF > end of DMA buffer was sometimes getting set.  If it was allocated toG > something else, and wasn't already set, and whatever owned the buffer G > cared about the value, the result was usually a crash.  User programs E > tended to specify buffers that were a multiple of 4 bytes long (80, E > 128, 132 and 512 bytes were common), so the thing 2 longwords after E > the end of the buffer was often the backlink of a freelist entry in * > pool, which would usually cause a crash. >=20F > DEC could never find any problem with the system, SBI, UBA, or DV11. >=20  
 [snip ...]  ? Yeah, flaky cables like SBI were a real challenge (my SBI cable D connector checker was something I came up with and it saved numerousG hours of troubleshooting. Back in the DEC days I wrote up a tech tip on D how to do it and did receive some favourable notes on that from some folks that had used it as well.   B I heard of more than one system swapped over the years and I often3 wondered whether the SBI cables were the issue. =20   F Challenge with some backplane cables like this is that there are oftenH control and data signals passing over the same cables. Hence, if controlH signal gets impacted the symptoms might be different than when that sameG signal gets impacted when it is passing a data signal - potentially the  bit 8 scenario you mentioned.   C By the way, I chuckled when you described the scenario where all of F those folks were on site with a pile of DOA's ... More than one time IG showed up on site to find multiple issues - the original issue and then D the additional ones caused by multiple power down/up scenario's thatG often included taking "short-cuts" in replacing modules (e.g. not using E static straps) and/or getting modules mixed up, not remembering which G was good or bad and hence red tag spare as "suspect" .... And Customers 3 would often wonder why there were so many DOA's ...    :-)    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 22:07:33 GMT 1 From: Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> ' Subject: Re: Itanium Solutions Alliance 3 Message-ID: <Fa1We.12668$hG4.7493@news.cpqcorp.net>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:5 > Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> writes: G  >>WW vendor revenue for Q205 (all operating systems) (Source: Gartner   QSTAT): 8 >>HP Itanium based - US$411M, growing 64% year-over-year > G > 2 systems last year and 3 systems this year is a 50% growth.  But not & > something I owuld bet the farm on.    F $411 million (in a single quarter!) is a far cry from 2 or 3 systems. F And 64% YoY growth of a number already that large is also significant.  H The "Itanium just isn't selling" line just isn't so convincing anymore. I Even Bill Todd seemed to admit in a recent post the possibility that the  % Itanium just might succeed after all.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 20:20:53 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>' Subject: Re: Itanium Solutions Alliance = Message-ID: <Mpudnfsc35f1I7XeRVn-hQ@metrocastcablevision.com>    Keith Parris wrote:  > Bill Gunshannon wrote: > 6 >> Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> writes: > I >  >>WW vendor revenue for Q205 (all operating systems) (Source: Gartner  	 > QSTAT):  > : >>> HP Itanium based - US$411M, growing 64% year-over-year >> >>H >> 2 systems last year and 3 systems this year is a 50% growth.  But not' >> something I owuld bet the farm on.    >  > H > $411 million (in a single quarter!) is a far cry from 2 or 3 systems. H > And 64% YoY growth of a number already that large is also significant. > J > The "Itanium just isn't selling" line just isn't so convincing anymore.   C Unfortunately for Itanic's future, it has only changed to "Most of  G Itanic's still-unimpressive sales are to customers who have been given  G little other choice, by virtue of having had their preferred platforms   declared moribund."   I Sales to such a captive audience are not indicative of anything like the  ; kind of health that an uncritical appraisal of "64% growth   year-over-year" would suggest.  K > Even Bill Todd seemed to admit in a recent post the possibility that the  ' > Itanium just might succeed after all.   G Had you been paying better attention, you'd have realized that this is  > nothing new:  I've *never* suggested that Itanic's demise was I inevitable, just that it seemed likely - and it still does, perhaps even  B more than a year ago given the ho-hum performance predictions for G Montecito (it sounds as if the first-release clock-rate is now down to  E 1.6 GHz, with 1.8 GHz later and no mention of 2.0 GHz at all - hell,  ' Madison *already* clocks at 1.667 GHz).   E As a very literal-minded person who is rather careful to say exactly  I what he means I take the difference between what is  'possible' and what  G is 'probable' quite seriously.  Perhaps your own understanding of that  & difference could use some brushing-up.   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 19:25:02 GMT 6 From: "Kenneth Farmer" <kfarmer@NOSPAM.spyderbyte.com>% Subject: Keeping OpenVMS in-the-house 6 Message-ID: <iO_Ve.1$KB.3546@twister.southeast.rr.com>  F I know many of you have written papers to keep VMS in-the-house.  I'm L talking about papers and presentations you've given to your bosses to argue & that the company should remain on VMS.  M I want to create a page on OpenVMS.org that has several of these papers that  K the community can use as templates for the same purpose.  Obviously, these  0 documents would need to be modified for privacy.  K Everyone will be able to download these documents to assist with their own  G argument.  Having more than one head working on these papers will help  C everyone in the community when their turn comes to argue the point.   > No paper is too small or insignificant.  All of them can help.  J One of the requests on the page will be to share the paper they create in  exchange for using the archive.   I Please email me if you're interested in helping give back to the OpenVMS   community.  :)   kfarmer (at) openvms (dot) org   Ken   % _____________________________________  Kenneth Farmer <>< 336-736-7376 3 www.OpenVMS.org | dba.OpenVMS.org | dcl.OpenVMS.org  HP OpenVMS News and Info   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:12:28 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> ) Subject: Re: Keeping OpenVMS in-the-house 0 Message-ID: <11ih490ntiribbd@corp.supernews.com>   Kenneth Farmer wrote: H > I know many of you have written papers to keep VMS in-the-house.  I'm N > talking about papers and presentations you've given to your bosses to argue ( > that the company should remain on VMS. > O > I want to create a page on OpenVMS.org that has several of these papers that  M > the community can use as templates for the same purpose.  Obviously, these  2 > documents would need to be modified for privacy. > M > Everyone will be able to download these documents to assist with their own  I > argument.  Having more than one head working on these papers will help  E > everyone in the community when their turn comes to argue the point.  > @ > No paper is too small or insignificant.  All of them can help.  ! Even those that have failed?  :-)    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Sep 2005 17:44:07 -04003 From: Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> ) Subject: Re: Keeping OpenVMS in-the-house . Message-ID: <mddfys772ag.fsf@panix5.panix.com>  ) Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:    > Kenneth Farmer wrote:   A >> No paper is too small or insignificant.  All of them can help.   # > Even those that have failed?  :-)   L Knowing what didn't work is very often as important as knowing what did! ;->   --  L Rich Alderson                                       | /"\ ASCII ribbon     |L news@alderson.users.panix.com                       | \ / campaign against |L "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime."    |  x  HTML mail and    |L                          --Death, of the Endless    | / \ postings         |   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 21:24:10 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> ) Subject: Re: Keeping OpenVMS in-the-house 0 Message-ID: <11ihj0skt0qvofa@corp.supernews.com>   Rich Alderson wrote:+ > Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  >  >  >>Kenneth Farmer wrote:  >  > A >>>No paper is too small or insignificant.  All of them can help.  >  > # >>Even those that have failed?  :-)  >  > N > Knowing what didn't work is very often as important as knowing what did! ;-> >   G After being rather convincing, with lots of supporting evidence, I had  G nothing to say after the chief decision maker said "I just don't trust  D Compaq".  Precise quote, for those who might think I embelished any.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 21:42:01 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>) Subject: Re: Keeping OpenVMS in-the-house + Message-ID: <4328DF79.D7550442@comcast.net>    Dave Froble wrote: >  > Rich Alderson wrote:- > > Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  > >  > >  > >>Kenneth Farmer wrote:  > >  > > C > >>>No paper is too small or insignificant.  All of them can help.  > >  > > % > >>Even those that have failed?  :-)  > >  > > P > > Knowing what didn't work is very often as important as knowing what did! ;-> > >  > H > After being rather convincing, with lots of supporting evidence, I hadH > nothing to say after the chief decision maker said "I just don't trustF > Compaq".  Precise quote, for those who might think I embelished any.  D May I assume that the explanation, "Compaq didn't develop VMS - theyH just presently own it and sell it" didn't fly? Probably not. Distrust is1 serious deterrent, whether HP believes it or not.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 21:39:19 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>) Subject: Re: Keeping OpenVMS in-the-house + Message-ID: <4328DED6.E2FED92B@comcast.net>    Dave Froble wrote: >  > Kenneth Farmer wrote: I > > I know many of you have written papers to keep VMS in-the-house.  I'm O > > talking about papers and presentations you've given to your bosses to argue * > > that the company should remain on VMS. > > P > > I want to create a page on OpenVMS.org that has several of these papers thatN > > the community can use as templates for the same purpose.  Obviously, these4 > > documents would need to be modified for privacy. > > N > > Everyone will be able to download these documents to assist with their ownJ > > argument.  Having more than one head working on these papers will helpG > > everyone in the community when their turn comes to argue the point.  > > B > > No paper is too small or insignificant.  All of them can help. > # > Even those that have failed?  :-)   D Pursausion is a funny thing. For example, some folks can be deterredC from improper behavior simply by explaining the consequences; other F folks would take it as a personal challenge ("Well, they were idiots -4 they got caught! I'm no idiot, and I'll prove it!").  D A key element would likely be how to get the point across that doingH what everyone else does and getting what everyone else gets is *NOT* the7 definition of excellence, rather it defines mediocrity.   A Then again, a fair number of folks won't respond to that, either.   & You *REALLY* gotta know your audience!  C So, yes - I should think that *ANY* source of input would likely be > helpful SOMEwhere, even if it didn't make the grade "at home".   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 23:54:18 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> ) Subject: Re: Keeping OpenVMS in-the-house 0 Message-ID: <11ihrqj6h756n70@corp.supernews.com>   David J Dachtera wrote:  > Dave Froble wrote: >  >>Rich Alderson wrote: >>, >>>Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: >>>  >>>  >>>  >>>>Kenneth Farmer wrote:  >>>  >>> C >>>>>No paper is too small or insignificant.  All of them can help.  >>>  >>> % >>>>Even those that have failed?  :-)  >>>  >>> O >>>Knowing what didn't work is very often as important as knowing what did! ;->  >>> H >>After being rather convincing, with lots of supporting evidence, I hadH >>nothing to say after the chief decision maker said "I just don't trustF >>Compaq".  Precise quote, for those who might think I embelished any. >  > F > May I assume that the explanation, "Compaq didn't develop VMS - theyJ > just presently own it and sell it" didn't fly? Probably not. Distrust is3 > serious deterrent, whether HP believes it or not.  >   F The guy just came right out and said "there will be no more VMS based  applications developed here".   H So, I came up with a hugh price, then tripled it, said that windoz work G was at least 3 times more complex and time cosuming than VMS work, and  H told them that's what it would take.  They went away for a year, trying F other vendors, and I was sure they were gone for good.  Turns out the G vendors they tried wanted them to change the way they do business, not  H provide software for the way they do business.  Typical windoz weenies. E   Then they called, and didn't quibble even once on the price.  Only  H problem, I think that maybe that "three times as time consuming" was on C the low side of reality.  It actually took about 7.5 times as long.   F Note, this was for a conversion of an existing VMS based application. A 20 years old, and still their most reliable application.  Not as  
 reliable now.   H They paid the hugh bucks, and seem to feel that they got good value for H their money.  They want another project done.  The money spends just as  well as any other.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 23:26:33 -0500 (CDT) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)8 Subject: MPEG player with sound for "depth 24" graphics?2 Message-ID: <05091423263393_202003A2@antinode.org>  H    I've finally moved up from my venerable AlpSta 200 4/233 to an XP1000C (only 500MHz), which is sufficiently perky to cope with the current E deluge of junk e-mail bounce messages caused by some folks forging my F domain name in what must have been a very large batch of solicitationsF for some pharmceutical products being offered through some Web servers. in Korea.  But enough about my other problems.  C    While the AlpSta 200 had an old but versatile PBXGA-BA (ZXLp-E2) B graphics card, the XP1000 has a 3Dlabs OXYGEN VX1 (PBXGF-AB), withE DECwindows set to a DECW$SERVER_PIXEL_DEPTH of 24.  This is generally @ more satisfactory that the default depth of 8, but it does cause/ MMOV$ALPHAVCR.EXE to die, rendering it useless.   A    I did find an MPEG_PLAY (circa 1996, version 2.3?) which (with D "-dither color") seems to do well enough with the pictures, but whenG confronted with a full A/V experience, it (accurately) reports "This is H an MPEG System Layer Stream.  Audio is not played.", and remains silent.  G    I looked around for a while but could find no suitable audio-capable  MPEG player.      Is such a player available?  F    If the MMOV package is as frozen as it seems to be (18-APR-2000 forG MMOV$ALPHAVCR.EXE), is there any chance of breaking the source loose so 6 that some clever soul could fix a few of its problems?  H    Would one of the PowerStorm 300 (PBXGD-AD) or 350 (-AE) cards restoreG the multiple-color-depth capability missing from the fancy new card?  I E gather that the Radeon 7500 (PBXGG-AB) has the same limitation.  What ) about the ELSA GLoria Synergy (PBXGK-BB)?       Any other clever ideas?  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------   Date: 14 Sep 2005 18:49:46 GMT$ From: "Doc." <Doc@openvms-rocks.com>6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS  FTP server with these features ?7 Message-ID: <Xns96D1D3E70D8BADCovmsrox@212.100.160.126>   ! briggs@encompasserve.org wrote in , news:h2VSJZgHqQPT@eisner.encompasserve.org:   F > Yes.  Clearly the clients are non-compliant.  Which is scant comfortH > when the users are braying that their client works with everyone elses > server -- why not yours?  - FTP is one of the worst "standards" for this.   H No, I have no idea who to blame, but this might explain why some people J participating in the thread believe that a solution which matches the RFC 1 would fail to operate with common unix solutions.   4 That being the case, I wouldn't call them solutions.     Doc.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 20:58:06 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS  FTP server with these features ?+ Message-ID: <4328D52E.F857FCC6@comcast.net>    briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:  > b > In article <43276AD3.F6C39305@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:K > > I don't seem to find *ANY* FTP clients that support "REST[ART]". I find 0 > > some that understand "REGET", but that's it. > H > Don't be an idiot.  An FTP client has two interfaces.  And you're only) > looking at one of them.  The wrong one.   H Which would the most common user be likely to consider? The "wrong" one? ...the "right" one?   F Just because some folks can write VAX Assembler programs and/or deviceH drivers using the CREATE command doesn't mean that everyone can, will or# would be likely to. Same deal here.   I > > I'm not sure what purpose a server's REST[ART] command would serve if ( > > the client doesn't understand REGET. > 6 > What if the client has a pushbutton for "try again"?  H Probably GUI client that does the equivalent of REGET behind the scenes.8 If that's what the (ab)user understands, what's the dif?   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 21:00:00 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>6 Subject: Re: OpenVMS  FTP server with these features ?+ Message-ID: <4328D5A0.6AD4B0BE@comcast.net>    Eric Bruno wrote:  > ! > briggs@encompasserve.org wrote: u > > In article <gK56jXDfOgxj@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:  > > X > >>In article <oQ0OInx8BSKJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>, briggs@encompasserve.org writes: > >>J > >>>Read what I wrote the next time.  Or read RFC 959.  You have no clue. > >>( > >>   I have read the RFC.  Many times. > >>J > >>   In real life UNIX programmers expect bytes.  They're going to writeF > >>   a program that assumes the restart parameter is in bytes.  TheyJ > >>   don't care that they're wrong, because they assume you can transferE > >>   anything in binary and fix it up with unix2dos or dos2unix, so 5 > >>   they'll stick to they're byte-stream thinking.  > >>H > >>   Which means real life implementations will ignore the marker sentH > >>   by the remote system, look at how many bytes are in the file, andD > >>   send that assuming that was what the last marker value should! > >>   have been.  RFC be damned.  > >  > > - > > Ahah.  That makes things much more clear.  > > " > > Which then means you can have: > > : > > 1. High performance positioning for compliant clients.A > > 2. High performance positioning for broken clients as long as * > >    the file is fixed or stream format.G > > 3. Low performance positioning for broken clients on all other file  > >    formats. : > > 4. High reliability positioning for compliant clients.L > > 5. High reliability positioning for broken clients with binary transfers5 > > 6. Low reliability positioning for everyone else.  > > % > > Does that sum things up properly?  > >  > >       John Briggs M > In order to do this you cleanly you have extend both the server and client.  > B > One of the problems you have is that RFC959 has "minimum" set ofH > commands that can be implemented and still be "compliant" which leavesC > out lot of functionality.  Most FTP's only implement stream mode. + > block mode is not required by the RFC959.  > G > You can implement the behavior the John Briggs discussed in an manner   > that would be FTP "compliant". > . > If you want to extend FTP you should look atF > RFC2389 Feature negotiation mechanism for the File Transfer Protocol! > RFC2228 FTP Security Extensions  > RFC1579 Firewall-Friendly FTP  > * > These RFC's give a framework to work to. > J > Starting in 1999 the company I worked for developed a ftp server (Tru64,2 > HP-UX,Solaris,AIX, Linux (c), Windows Java only)H > and clients (Tru64, HP-UX,Solaris,AIX, Linux (c and Java, Windows Java6 > only) from scratch to address these types of issues.5 > (www.solution-soft.com See SafeVelocity) VMS is not > > one platforms we support though we did have some interest inA > 2000/2001. I actually got our Java client to run on OpenVMS 7.2 9 > but the customer lost interest so we never got to doing  > the server even for a demo.   @ Hint: the VMS market is ripe for high-rollers just now - lots of unserved demand.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 21:00:45 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>5 Subject: Re: OpenVMS FTP server with these features ? + Message-ID: <4328D5CD.CF1F9E4F@comcast.net>    JF Mezei wrote:  >  > David J Dachtera wrote: H > > > What REGET FTP command?  We're talking about REST.  It's described? > > > in RFC 959.  You know -- the document that describes FTP?  > > G > > If the client doesn't understand REGET, why does the server need to  > > understand REST[ART]?  > D > One needs to differentiate between user interface commands and FTPH > protocol commands. For instance, on the VMS client, you can type "DIR"C > but that doesn't send a "DIR" command to the server, it sends the # > appropriate FTP protocol command.    Exactly my point.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Sep 2005 12:35:43 -0700! From: susan_skonetski@hotmail.com / Subject: OpenVMS Pearl -  Announcing RTR V5.0 ! B Message-ID: <1126726543.541810.87220@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>  F HP Reliable Transaction Router (RTR) Version 5.0 Product Announcement!  E HP celebrates the 15th year anniversary of RTR with its first release : for OpenVMS  running on the HP Integrity server  platform.  ? HP Reliable Transaction Router (RTR) version 5.0 is shipping to > customers now!  RTR is a software fault tolerant transactionalF messaging middleware used to implement large, distributed applicationsC using a unique three-tier, highly interoperable HA/DT client/server A technology. RTR has been designed to provide the highest level of D quality and reliability. Since 1990 major financial exchanges across? the globe have relied on RTR as the best and simplest method of = providing 24 x 7 availability for their transaction-intensive 
 applications.   E The RTR V5.0 product release includes platform support for OpenVMS on E HP Integrity servers and AlphaServer systems, Microsoft=AE Windows=AE G Server 2003 and Linux=AE Frontend. Quality enhancements and a new fault G detection web browser are part of this new RTR product release. The RTR D fault-detection web browser enables a system manager to navigate allE nodes in their RTR network, drill down to specific nodes, and receive C automatic notification of warning, error or fatal alarms. Nodes are @ self monitoring, detecting faults on RTR nodes, links, roles and partitions.   " For more information please visit:4 http://h18000.www1.hp.com/info/SP5104/SP5104PF.PDF .      http://www.hp.com/products1/rtr/   ------------------------------    Date: 14 Sep 2005 21:59:21 +01006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) Subject: OT: WLAN is not a LAN, Message-ID: <43289d39$1@news.langstoeger.at>   Because I just got burned:  < Don't think a WLAN (Wireless LAN with WLAN-Bridge) is a LAN.C AMDS, DECnet, LAT, MOP and SCS do NOT work across a WLAN. Silly me. D It seems, only IP is (transparently) forwarded over a "WLAN-Bridge".  E The Mac.Add I see on the other side of my WLAN is the Mac.Add address = of the wireless port of the WLAN Bridge (and not my Alpha)...    Sigh   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 20:11:34 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 5 Subject: Re: RENAME behaviour (no message when error) , Message-ID: <4328BC36.7F54CC9E@teksavvy.com>   Jeff Cameron wrote: J > Please Show Examples! I could not duplicate the issue. Maybe I'm missing! > something. What version of VMS?   > Man, I should have copied the display when it happened. It has4 unfortunatly scrolled off the decterm buffer by now.  A And I tried the same command and this time it definitely issued a 4 message about not being able to copy across devices.   (this is VAX VMS 7.2 )  > I'll have to blame this on the alignment of the stars I guess.   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 05:32:25 +0000 (UTC) P From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)5 Subject: Re: RENAME behaviour (no message when error) $ Message-ID: <dgb118$7tu$1@online.de>  5 In article <4328BC36.7F54CC9E@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei ' <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:     > Jeff Cameron wrote: L > > Please Show Examples! I could not duplicate the issue. Maybe I'm missing# > > something. What version of VMS?  > @ > Man, I should have copied the display when it happened. It has6 > unfortunatly scrolled off the decterm buffer by now.  H I have found a truly wonderful proof which, however, this margin is too  small to contain.  :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 12:48:52 -0700 ' From: David Mathog <mathog@caltech.edu>  Subject: Sun using the "I" word + Message-ID: <dg9ur3$829$1@naig.caltech.edu>   + Sun apparently isn't afraid to use "Itanic"   #    http://www.sun.com/emrkt/itanic/   < The page strikes me as being pretty effective in getting its
 point across.    Regards,   David Mathog mathog@caltech.edu   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 00:17:31 GMT ; From: "Jeffrey H. Coffield" <jeffrey@digitalsynergyinc.com> # Subject: Re: Sun using the "I" word 9 Message-ID: <v43We.927$Jm.682@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>    David Mathog wrote: - > Sun apparently isn't afraid to use "Itanic"  > $ >   http://www.sun.com/emrkt/itanic/ > > > The page strikes me as being pretty effective in getting its > point across.  > 
 > Regards, >  > David Mathog > mathog@caltech.edu  G I just went to HP's web site and a RX1620-2 was priced at $6,294.00 so  9 their comparisons seem to be off by a factor of almost 4.   
 Jeff Coffield    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 20:42:27 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> # Subject: Re: Sun using the "I" word , Message-ID: <4328C36C.63D06A1E@teksavvy.com>   David Mathog wrote: % >    http://www.sun.com/emrkt/itanic/  > > > The page strikes me as being pretty effective in getting its > point across.        OUCH !  ? Gartner may not have succeeded in killing VMS, but its constant H predictions of its impending death contributed greatly to the downsizingC of the VMS marketplace.  Digital didn't care because its management : thought it could survive as an expensive wintel box maker.      F Similarly, the constant media and competitors' prediction of the deathG of that IA64 thing will hurt HP's proprietary products, including VMS.    G The quicker HP announces ports to the 8086, the stronger VMS will be at G the time decisions are made and thus the more likely VMS will be ported E to the 8086. The longer they wait to announce it, the weaker VMS will H be, and thus increasing chances that VMS wouldn't be ported beyond IA64.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 21:02:58 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> # Subject: Re: Sun using the "I" word , Message-ID: <4328C83A.19AF6A0E@teksavvy.com>   "Jeffrey H. Coffield" wrote:H > I just went to HP's web site and a RX1620-2 was priced at $6,294.00 so; > their comparisons seem to be off by a factor of almost 4.   A The Sun web site does have a "Date Published" line in that table, C showing the HP prices date back to december 1 2004, whereas the Sun  prices are from september 2005.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 20:54:55 -0500 % From: Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org> # Subject: Re: Sun using the "I" word 5 Message-ID: <slrndihl3f.2q1.usenet@zappy.catbert.org>   t In article <v43We.927$Jm.682@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>, Jeffrey H. Coffield <jeffrey@digitalsynergyinc.com> wrote: > David Mathog wrote: . >> Sun apparently isn't afraid to use "Itanic" >>  % >>   http://www.sun.com/emrkt/itanic/  >>  I > I just went to HP's web site and a RX1620-2 was priced at $6,294.00 so  ; > their comparisons seem to be off by a factor of almost 4.   A Not really. Sun's numbers are pretty close to accurate, actually.   G Curious about the numbers, I went to the HP small business online store M web site and configured a RX1620-2 similar to what Sun listed in their table.   @ The HP online store for small/medium business systems, RX1620-2:   http://h71016.www7.hp.com/dstore/MiddleFrame.asp?page=config&ProductLineId=431&FamilyId=2047&BaseId=13372&oi=E9CED&BEID=19701&SBLID=  " With the following customizations:  ! 	- 2x1.6 GHz Itanium 2 processors  	- 4x4 GB pairs (total: 16 GB)" 	- 1x73 GB 15K RPM SCSI hard drive9 	- 1xDVD-ROM drive (This is standard in all current Suns)    Grand total? $24,133.00.  E Note that this figure doesn't include additional options such as rack H mounting kits, service/support, etc. I'm sure Sun didn't factor that in, either.   B As I expected, the memory represented most of the additional cost.  G Unfortunately, store.sun.com lists 4 bundles for the X4100, and doesn't H have an online customization option so I can't see what the kit that SunG quoted for the table actually costs. I'll put in a quote request to our % Sun VAR, just out of sheer curiosity.   2 However, I can tell you the Sun X4100 server with:  B 	- *2* dual-core AMD Opteron model 275 processors (total: 4 cores) 	- 1x4 GB of RAM 	- 2x73 GB (10K RPM?) drives 	- 1xDVD-ROM drive  E ...costs USD $7395. The AMD Opteron 275 (dual-core) is clocked at 2.2 0 GHz and each core has a dedicated 1 MB L2 cache.  ( For more information on the Opteron 275:  @ http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=opteron275&page=1  E Supposedly, the additional 12 GB of RAM costs another $6000 from Sun. < Though I'd find that hard to believe if it's 2 GB ECC DIMMs.  F I'm afraid that in this case, Sun's numbers seems to look pretty good,/ compared to the equivalent HP Itanium offering.   B Though, HP has the one crown jewel that Sun doesn't have: OpenVMS.   -Dan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 23:36:37 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net># Subject: Re: Sun using the "I" word G Message-ID: <_K6dnQlbM9jVcbXenZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com>    Jeffrey H. Coffield wrote: > David Mathog wrote:  > . >> Sun apparently isn't afraid to use "Itanic" >>% >>   http://www.sun.com/emrkt/itanic/  >>? >> The page strikes me as being pretty effective in getting its  >> point across. >> >> Regards,  >> >> David Mathog  >> mathog@caltech.edu  >  > I > I just went to HP's web site and a RX1620-2 was priced at $6,294.00 so  ; > their comparisons seem to be off by a factor of almost 4.   G Perhaps you should actually configure it to the level that Sun clearly  B specified (and configured its own entry to) before coming to that G conclusion:  the RAM alone adds over $14K to the base price (ah, RAM -  H such a staple of DEC, Compaq, and now HP profits, but it does make them 7 look awfully pricey compared with less greedy vendors).    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 00:05:17 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> # Subject: Re: Sun using the "I" word 0 Message-ID: <11ihsf91noi6m8f@corp.supernews.com>   Dan Foster wrote: v > In article <v43We.927$Jm.682@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>, Jeffrey H. Coffield <jeffrey@digitalsynergyinc.com> wrote: >  >>David Mathog wrote:  >>. >>>Sun apparently isn't afraid to use "Itanic" >>> % >>>  http://www.sun.com/emrkt/itanic/  >>>  >>I >>I just went to HP's web site and a RX1620-2 was priced at $6,294.00 so  ; >>their comparisons seem to be off by a factor of almost 4.  >  > C > Not really. Sun's numbers are pretty close to accurate, actually.  > I > Curious about the numbers, I went to the HP small business online store O > web site and configured a RX1620-2 similar to what Sun listed in their table.  > B > The HP online store for small/medium business systems, RX1620-2: >  > http://h71016.www7.hp.com/dstore/MiddleFrame.asp?page=config&ProductLineId=431&FamilyId=2047&BaseId=13372&oi=E9CED&BEID=19701&SBLID= > $ > With the following customizations: > # > 	- 2x1.6 GHz Itanium 2 processors   > 	- 4x4 GB pairs (total: 16 GB)$ > 	- 1x73 GB 15K RPM SCSI hard drive; > 	- 1xDVD-ROM drive (This is standard in all current Suns)  >  > Grand total? $24,133.00. > G > Note that this figure doesn't include additional options such as rack J > mounting kits, service/support, etc. I'm sure Sun didn't factor that in,	 > either.  > D > As I expected, the memory represented most of the additional cost. > I > Unfortunately, store.sun.com lists 4 bundles for the X4100, and doesn't J > have an online customization option so I can't see what the kit that SunI > quoted for the table actually costs. I'll put in a quote request to our ' > Sun VAR, just out of sheer curiosity.  > 4 > However, I can tell you the Sun X4100 server with: > D > 	- *2* dual-core AMD Opteron model 275 processors (total: 4 cores) > 	- 1x4 GB of RAM > 	- 2x73 GB (10K RPM?) drives > 	- 1xDVD-ROM drive > G > ...costs USD $7395. The AMD Opteron 275 (dual-core) is clocked at 2.2 2 > GHz and each core has a dedicated 1 MB L2 cache. > * > For more information on the Opteron 275: > B > http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=opteron275&page=1 > G > Supposedly, the additional 12 GB of RAM costs another $6000 from Sun. > > Though I'd find that hard to believe if it's 2 GB ECC DIMMs. > H > I'm afraid that in this case, Sun's numbers seems to look pretty good,1 > compared to the equivalent HP Itanium offering.  > D > Though, HP has the one crown jewel that Sun doesn't have: OpenVMS. >  > -Dan  C I'm more current on the Athlon64 CPUs than the Opterons, so may be  G wrong.  I think the Opteron 275 is 90 nm, while itanic is still at .13  F micron.  So comparing apples and apples, the Opteron buyer is getting F more current tech.  Yes, the itanic will get to 90 nm, but by then we G might be seeing 65 nm Opterons.  For whatever reason, the itanic isn't  D keeping up.  My theory is still what it was several years ago, when C IA-32 is challenged, Intel's attention will be concentrated there.  ! There are current 90 nm Pentiums.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 23:05:15 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) 0 Subject: Re: SYSMAN "IO AUTOCONFIGURE" questions3 Message-ID: <L02We.12678$6A4.3348@news.cpqcorp.net>   ] In article <1126734202.704919.206850@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, mabbuttg@yahoo.ca writes:   <   re: Hot-configuring a SCSI tape or disk device on OpenVMS?  @   Power up the tape (or disk) drive, enable full privileges, and9   issue something akin to the following command sequence:      $ SET PROCESS/PRIVILEGE=ALL    $ RUN SYS$SYSTEM:SYSMAN 
   IO AUTO/LOG    EXIT   $   D   If this is a particularly sensitive system, I'd tend to issue this<   command in the off-hours, or I'd simply re-boot the box.    G   I've not seen this command fail, but I have seen it occasionally hang D   the process when the storage hardware is flakey, and I have seen aD   few cases where bogus or errant I/O hardware won't willingly allowG   itself to be configured.  The latter case is relatively benign within    this context, of course.  C   I'd be looking at upgrades to OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2 or to current, D   and at the application of available ECO kits, particularly if thisA   is a sensitive system.  Falling behind on ECOs and versions can 2   lead to stability and support issues, obviously.   	--   ;   Doesn't "UPS" stand for "Unreliable Power Stability?" :-)   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.515 ************************