1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 16 Sep 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 517       Contents:" Changing the primary TCPIP address& Re: Changing the primary TCPIP address& Re: Changing the primary TCPIP address& Re: Changing the primary TCPIP address5 Conflicting qualifiers in OpenVMS 6.x on init command 9 Re: Conflicting qualifiers in OpenVMS 6.x on init command  Re: DELL dumped Itanic?  Re: DELL dumped Itanic? / Re: Finding directory file of current directory / Re: Finding directory file of current directory  For Whom the Dell Tolls  Re: For Whom the Dell Tolls  Re: For Whom the Dell Tolls  Re: For Whom the Dell Tolls  Re: For Whom the Dell Tolls  Re: For Whom the Dell Tolls $ Re: HP SWB V1.7.8 consistent crasher$ Re: HP SWB V1.7.8 consistent crasher$ Re: HP SWB V1.7.8 consistent crasher* Re: HP to dump itanium - bring back alpha?* Re: HP to dump itanium - bring back alpha?) Re: HP to lay off 5,000 in France/Europe? ) Re: HP to lay off 5,000 in France/Europe? ) Re: HP to lay off 5,000 in France/Europe? $ initialize disk, how on openvms 6.x?3 Re: MPEG player with sound for "depth 24" graphics? 3 Re: MPEG player with sound for "depth 24" graphics? P Re: Old Flash Plug-in Crashes Mozilla/SWB (was: Re: HP SWB V1.7.8 consistent craP Re: Old Flash Plug-in Crashes Mozilla/SWB (was: Re: HP SWB V1.7.8 consistent cra, Re: OpenVMS FTP server with these features ? Re: OT: WLAN is not a LAN  Re: OT: WLAN is not a LAN  Re: OT: WLAN is not a LAN . Re: setting default protection for directories. Re: setting default protection for directories. Re: setting default protection for directories. Re: setting default protection for directories. Re: setting default protection for directories Re: Sun using the "I" word Re: Sun using the "I" word Re: Sun using the "I" word Re: Sun using the "I" word Re: Sun using the "I" word Re: Sun using the "I" word+ Re: Wget 1.10.1a (less preliminary) exists.   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 15 Sep 2005 18:29:55 -0700# From: gconstantinides@myrealbox.com + Subject: Changing the primary TCPIP address C Message-ID: <1126834195.109002.322950@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Hi all,   1 We are running OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.3 - ECO 2  on a Alpha 1200 box.  < We need to change the IP address on this machine permanently (across reboots).   6 We have been able to set a secondary address using the> "ifconfig" utility which (as expected) is lost after a reboot.  : the  TCPIP> help ifconfig      command says the following:   IFCONFIG  
   DESCRIPTION   D      You use the ifconfig command at boot time to define the networkE      address of each interface. You can also use the ifconfig command F      at other times to display all interfaces that are configured on aE      system, to redefine the address of an interface, or to set other       operating parameters.     In this the way to go?  < The log in SYS$SYSROOT:[TCPIP$BIND]TCPIP$BIND_RUN.LOG  reads  : Wed 14 12:42:21 INFORMATIONAL: listening on IPv4 interface WE0,192.168.45.10#53  = So it is the 192.168.45.10  that I want to change for the WE0 
 interface.     Thanks GeorgeC    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 19:20:56 -0700  From: Z <Z@no.spam> / Subject: Re: Changing the primary TCPIP address ) Message-ID: <b_pWe.6068$6Z3.661@fe06.lga>   $ gconstantinides@myrealbox.com wrote:	 > Hi all,  > 3 > We are running OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.3 - ECO 2  > on a Alpha 1200 box. > > > We need to change the IP address on this machine permanently > (across reboots).   & Why not use  @SYS$MANAGER:TCPIP$CONFIG   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 22:56:41 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> / Subject: Re: Changing the primary TCPIP address 0 Message-ID: <11ikcqdfeai1k46@corp.supernews.com>  $ gconstantinides@myrealbox.com wrote:	 > Hi all,  > 3 > We are running OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.3 - ECO 2  > on a Alpha 1200 box. > > > We need to change the IP address on this machine permanently > (across reboots).  > 8 > We have been able to set a secondary address using the@ > "ifconfig" utility which (as expected) is lost after a reboot. > < > the  TCPIP> help ifconfig      command says the following: > 
 > IFCONFIG >  >   DESCRIPTION  > F >      You use the ifconfig command at boot time to define the networkG >      address of each interface. You can also use the ifconfig command H >      at other times to display all interfaces that are configured on aG >      system, to redefine the address of an interface, or to set other  >      operating parameters. >  >  > In this the way to go? > > > The log in SYS$SYSROOT:[TCPIP$BIND]TCPIP$BIND_RUN.LOG  reads > < > Wed 14 12:42:21 INFORMATIONAL: listening on IPv4 interface > WE0,192.168.45.10#53 > ? > So it is the 192.168.45.10  that I want to change for the WE0  > interface. >  >  > Thanks	 > GeorgeC  >   F Well, the easiest way is to use SYS$MANAGER:TCPIP$CONFIG.COM.  This I C believe updates the database.  Then shut down TCP/IP services, and  * re-start them.  All from the command file.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 23:05:01 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> / Subject: Re: Changing the primary TCPIP address , Message-ID: <432A3652.70F78DE4@teksavvy.com>  $ gconstantinides@myrealbox.com wrote:> > We need to change the IP address on this machine permanently > (across reboots).   B The easiest way is to use @SYS$MANAGER:TCPIP$CONFIG as others have pointed out.   or you can:   & TCPIP> SHOW INTERFACES for live config0 TCPIP> SHOW CONF INTERFACES for permanent config  H You can then use SET INTERFACE and SET CONF INTERFACE to create your newB interface with the new IP address, but you will need to delete the= primary old interface in both live and stored configs first.    G HELP SET INTERFACE , HELP SET CONF INTERFACE will give you information.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 21:05:47 +0200 " From: Hans Blom <tocum2@yahoo.com>> Subject: Conflicting qualifiers in OpenVMS 6.x on init commandB Message-ID: <1126810978.2b06122d38b5913316d755544d2e8651@teranews>  
 Hello all,H I received a question via telephone from a customer on how to initialize# a disk. Valiant as ever I answered: 5  "init dev: /nohigh/header=30000/owner=system my_lab" E I even tried the command on a local disk on my computer and patted my # back. Smart and cunning as usual!!!    But.... H When the customer entered the command he got "conflicting qualifiers..."G MMM? I run 7.3-2 and it worked for me, the customer runs something like : 6.? and gets the error. We both are on the Alpha-platform.  - Anybody got any idea what could be the cause?    Thanks in advance    Hans B Senior Software Consultant Sweden   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 00:19:23 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) B Subject: Re: Conflicting qualifiers in OpenVMS 6.x on init command3 Message-ID: <fcoWe.12770$Io5.7339@news.cpqcorp.net>   g In article <1126810978.2b06122d38b5913316d755544d2e8651@teranews>, Hans Blom <tocum2@yahoo.com> writes: I :I received a question via telephone from a customer on how to initialize $ :a disk. Valiant as ever I answered:6 : "init dev: /nohigh/header=30000/owner=system my_lab" .. :But....I :When the customer entered the command he got "conflicting qualifiers..." H :MMM? I run 7.3-2 and it worked for me, the customer runs something like; :6.? and gets the error. We both are on the Alpha-platform.   B   Do find out the DCL command used, and the OpenVMS Alpha version.  A   I'd also look around for an "init" DCL symbol, as that can be a -   common source of qualifier conflict errors.      My usual command:   G     INITIALIZE/SYSTEM/HEADER=big[/STRUCTURE=n][/CLUSTER=n] ddcu: vollab   1   To bypass any symbols, enter a command such as:        INITIALIZEEEE/SYSTEM...   D   Having some extra letters (any letters) on the fully-spelled base C   INITIALIZE verb is the key to bypassing any DCL symbol that might 
   be lurking.   C   As for /[NO]HIGHWATER, I can disable highwater marking later, if  C   need be.  Unless I have applications writing records _way_ out on A   the disk past the current EFO -- and greatly expanding the file =   through non-incremental writing and extension -- leaving it 4   enabled usually isn't a performance consideration.  F   Setting the cluster factor to a multiple of 32 is often a good idea,F   as that tends to line up with a disk caching performance sweet-spot.C   This assumes you are already working with bigger disks and bigger    cluster factors, obviously.   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 21:18:46 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>   Subject: Re: DELL dumped Itanic?, Message-ID: <432A1D71.A61E5EFB@teksavvy.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:H > I've only seen one and it was not purchased but provided gratis by HP.  G Remember that "Alpha Retain Trust" ? Many Alpha customers were promised  very cheap IA64 systems.  F Eventually the freebies will run out and HP will need to start selling0 those systems to paying cutsomers at full price.    E There is only so far HP can go to help support Intel. At one point HP C must be accountable to its own shareholders and make money from the  systems it sells.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 00:23:21 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>   Subject: Re: DELL dumped Itanic?, Message-ID: <432A48A8.49E4C4AB@teksavvy.com>  7 CNET has an article about DELL dumping that IA64 thing.   a http://news.com.com/Dell+shuttering+Itanium+server+business/2100-1006_3-5867239.html?tag=nefd.top   B Perhaps another side of AMD's influence on the market. Beforehand,F Intel, being monopoly, could dictate its 8086 customers also sell IA64G things as a condition to obtain lower prices for 8086s. (or arrange its H quota rules to make every sale of an IA64 server worth 3000 8086 servers; in terms of attaining quotas requires to get lower prices).     D But with AMD now gaining market share, and with  its lawsuit againstC Intel making public Intel's monopolistic tactics, and with the many F rumours of Dell possibly starting to sell AMD based systems,.  perhaps? Intel agreed to let Dell off the IA64 hook in exchange for some  consideration from Dell.    G I could think of some firm commitment to remain Intel-only for an extra B year or two, I could think of Dell testifying for Intel instead ofD against it might also be worth enough to Intel to allow Dell to stop selling IA64 things.    H I think this is a sign of the slow erosion of Intel's monopoly. And that is a good thing for customers.   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 17:44:36 +0000 (UTC) ? From: Graham Burley <burley.not-this@encompasserve-or-this.org> 8 Subject: Re: Finding directory file of current directory9 Message-ID: <4329B292.5E2C691E@encompasserve-or-this.org>    JF Mezei wrote:  >   G > I was hoping there was a simple magic incantation that would solve my  > problem. But I guess not.   : After thinking about the "right way" to do it I remembered F$FID_TO_NAME,< assuming there's at least one file in the current directory:   $ fn = f$search("*.*;*"); $ dir_fn = f$fid_to_name(fn, f$file_attributes(fn, "DID") )   D But F$FID_TO_NAME is a recent (?8.2) feature, prior to that it would probably involve a DUMP.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 21:11:48 -0500 2 From: David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net>8 Subject: Re: Finding directory file of current directory+ Message-ID: <432A29E4.66348BEE@comcast.net>    > O'Brien Paddy wrote: > 	 > [snips]  >  > -----Original Message-----0 > From: Dave Froble [mailto:davef@tsoft-inc.com] > Sent: Thu 9/15/2005 1:42 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com : > Subject: Re: Finding directory file of current directory > F > Ok, my DCL is a bit rusty, and I have no ODS-5 experience, never yetD > found a reason to use ODS-5, but the following is a short proof of
 > concept: >  > *****  > H > This is OT to JF's original question, but I have never initialised any@ > disks to ODS-5. I don't think I could cope with all the user'sE > questions, and why VMS had to imitate that stupidity, I shall never C > understand.  With 39/39/5 as a file descriptor, we have more file / > names available to us than we could ever use.  > G > Along with other contributors, any attempt I made at this (and I have F > written similar, but not quite what JF wanted) would never cope with > ODS-5 oddities.   G Well, I know I've done what JF is asking. Not in a one-liner, that much A is certain. It did, however, use F$PARSE(), string reductions and  testing for "[000000]".   ? I'm fairly certain that it would be "ODS-5 proof" provided that  F$PARSE() remains compliant.  D ...and yeah, ODS-5 can be a burden, I s'pose. However, if it gets us= closer to inter-operating with de-facto standard systems (the ; unenlightened call them "'industry' standard"), then WTF...   @ Oracle-9i requires an ODS-5 volume for installation, BTW... (the> installer also requires DECwindows/MOTIF. *SIGH* Thank WRQ for Reflection/X!)   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/  ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/    Coming soon:& Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 03:08:16 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com   Subject: For Whom the Dell Tolls- Message-ID: <87k6hi6ten.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   E Not for the Itanic any more... It has had a Round Rock dropped on it.      --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 19:37:59 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>$ Subject: Re: For Whom the Dell Tolls< Message-ID: <r4kWe.33989$k22.4496@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>   prep@prep.synonet.com wrote:G > Not for the Itanic any more... It has had a Round Rock dropped on it.   G http://www.redherring.com/Article.aspx?a=13587&hed=Dell+Ditches+Itanium 	 --quote-- A Intel was aware of Dells decision, according to Erica Fields, a  I communications manager with Intel. Theyre focused on the volume server  F market where our Xeon processors play, and this direction makes sense  for them, she said.   ... H Itanium is intended for applications such as a project with NASA to use F thousands of Itanium processors to rebuild the Columbia spaceship and  launch it back into space.
 --end quote--   I Can't figure out whether its a simulation or a recycling project or what?    --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 16:00:21 -0400 % From: BRAD <bradhamilton@comcast.net> $ Subject: Re: For Whom the Dell Tolls0 Message-ID: <gd6dnWi9w9tET7TeRVn-sg@comcast.com>   Alan Greig wrote:  <snip>J > Itanium is intended for applications such as a project with NASA to use H > thousands of Itanium processors to rebuild the Columbia spaceship and  > launch it back into space. > --end quote--  > K > Can't figure out whether its a simulation or a recycling project or what?  >   F I parse that sentence as meaning, "We're going to take all the unsold F Itaniums, fit them together to resemble the Columbia spaceship, (sic) < and launch the whole kit and caboodle into outer space."	:-)  $ An eminently worthwhile project.	:-)   --  . Bradford J. Hamilton "All opinions are my own"=                       "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job"    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Sep 2005 13:17:44 -0700 From: bob@instantwhip.com $ Subject: Re: For Whom the Dell TollsB Message-ID: <1126815464.923343.62920@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  C they better make some itaniums to handle small accounting workgroup ( offices or we will'nt be buying them ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 22:48:54 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> $ Subject: Re: For Whom the Dell Tolls0 Message-ID: <11ikcbpme26jh84@corp.supernews.com>   BRAD wrote:  > Alan Greig wrote:  > <snip> > G >> Itanium is intended for applications such as a project with NASA to  I >> use thousands of Itanium processors to rebuild the Columbia spaceship  ! >> and launch it back into space.  >> --end quote-- >>L >> Can't figure out whether its a simulation or a recycling project or what? >> > H > I parse that sentence as meaning, "We're going to take all the unsold H > Itaniums, fit them together to resemble the Columbia spaceship, (sic) A > and launch the whole kit and caboodle into outer space."    :-)  > ) > An eminently worthwhile project.    :-)  >   ! There are laws against littering!    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 02:51:06 GMT   From: CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net>$ Subject: Re: For Whom the Dell Tolls* Message-ID: <432A331C.8010100@prodigy.net>   Dave Froble wrote:  
 > BRAD wrote:  >  >> Alan Greig wrote:	 >> <snip>  >>H >>> Itanium is intended for applications such as a project with NASA to J >>> use thousands of Itanium processors to rebuild the Columbia spaceship " >>> and launch it back into space. >>> --end quote--  >>> H >>> Can't figure out whether its a simulation or a recycling project or 	 >>> what?  >>>  >>I >> I parse that sentence as meaning, "We're going to take all the unsold  I >> Itaniums, fit them together to resemble the Columbia spaceship, (sic)  B >> and launch the whole kit and caboodle into outer space."    :-) >>* >> An eminently worthwhile project.    :-) >> > # > There are laws against littering!  > 9 In space?  What jurisdiction is in charge of enforcement?    --  D The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt toC minimize spam.  Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 13:51:19 -0400 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>- Subject: Re: HP SWB V1.7.8 consistent crasher - Message-ID: <43297C57.16005.F4C03A@localhost>   F > > :SWB V1.7.8 will crash 100% reliably by visiting either of the two  > > :following commercial sites, >      http://www.crucial.com  >      http://www.coldsteel.com   4 No problems with Mozilla 1.7.8 under Windows 2000...  
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com) "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option"    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 18:49:36 GMT   From: John Santos <john@egh.com>- Subject: Re: HP SWB V1.7.8 consistent crasher * Message-ID: <4njWe.3278$si2.2878@trnddc06>   Stanley F. Quayle wrote:E >>>:SWB V1.7.8 will crash 100% reliably by visiting either of the two  >>>:following commercial sites,  >> >>     http://www.crucial.com  >>     http://www.coldsteel.com  >  > 6 > No problems with Mozilla 1.7.8 under Windows 2000... >  > --Stan Quayle  > Quayle Consulting Inc.  E SWB 1.7.8 on an AS1200 5/533 VMS 7.3-2 with most ECO's, TCPware 5.6-2 B and *NO* flash plugin seems to work fine.  (It complains about theE lack of the flash plugin occasionally, and asks if it should download  it.  I clicked "NO").   E I navigated around the crucial site a bit (looking for memory for the A AS1200, which they don't seem to have) and then back to a simple, & known-working site, which loaded fine.   I didn't try coldsteel.   B List of ECO's on my Alpha:  UPDATE-V0400, PCSI-V0100, ACRTL-V0100,D DWMOTIF_ECO02, GRAPHICS-V0300, PTHREAD-V0300, SYS-V0700, and a bunch% more that I don't think are relevant.   # My guess would be the flash plugin.   B P.S.  I thought I had downloaded that long ago.  Maybe it vanishedA when I installed a later version of SWB.  Also, SSL doesn't work. , I get a pop-up window saying it is disabled.  . Need to re-read the release notes, I guess :-(     --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 20:14:23 -0400 - From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> - Subject: Re: HP SWB V1.7.8 consistent crasher 1 Message-ID: <GK-dneZCY7X_k7feRVn-tA@adelphia.com>    jordan@ccs4vms.com wrote:  > Hoff Hoffman wrote:  >   D >>:SWB V1.7.8 will crash 100% reliably by visiting either of the two >>:following commercial sites,  & I am a slight bit behind on upgrading.   Mozilla 1.7 F Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; OpenVMS AlphaServer_DS10_617_MHz; en-US; rv:1.7)  Gecko/20040621   Shockwave Flash:  !      File name: libflashplugin.so J      Flash Movie player Version 0.4.10 compatible with Shockwave Flash 4.0  / >>  What are the URLs of the failing web sites?  > D > I don't know how they got left out unless google is blocking them: >  >      http://www.crucial.com   E It is showing a black box above a section listed as "Ask the Crucial  = Expert".  The rest of the site looks like a typical web site.    >      http://www.coldsteel.com   H It is showing a back box in the middle of the display.  The rest of the & display looks like a typical web site.  J I did have the problem of the crashes before I upgraded the flash plug-in.  I A bug report is also open on Bugzilla to track if the browser can better  H protect it self against such problems in plug-ins.  The problem is that B when an access violation occurs, there is also a probability that < internal memory may have been corrupted in the main browser.   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 11:50:09 -0600  From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net> 3 Subject: Re: HP to dump itanium - bring back alpha? 7 Message-ID: <1126806684_1369@spool6-east.superfeed.net>    Stanley F. Quayle wrote:I >>With all the supported Charon-VAX sales taking place maybe there really  > ' > is a market for enhanced VAX support.  > H > Perhaps.  In my experience as a CHARON-VAX reseller, "large" ("really,H > really important") systems have VAX support, and it is continued after > migration. > D > Probably 75% of my sales are for little MicroVAX 3100 systems in aI > broom closet.  They don't typically have HP support.  Heck, most of the H > owners don't know that anyone owns VMS anymore.  Basically, the system6 > works and just needs to run for another 10-20 years. > I > That being said, I have sold some copies of CHARON-VAX that are for NEW A > systems, with brand-new HP licenses.  I've also sold new TCP/IP E > licenses for systems that only had DECnet.  So, there are *new* VAX  > opportunities out there. >   7 You actually are aboe to sell TCPIP? Years ago, when it 4 was switching over to Compaq, I tried to get a TCPIP3 license. Started by calling the phone number on the 7 official VAX web site, routed through a dozen different 8 people, and finally got a offer on my answering machine., $5000/user for a Vax3100. Seemed high to me.  ; When I tried to confirm the price a day later, and ask what : was meant by the /user, I was told the person who I talked; to was no longer working for them, and they had no idea who $ I should talk to about VAX software.  : Other tries, were an even more miserable failure, with the9 usual "What version of Windows does that run on?" type of 
 questions.  + Never was able to get them a TCPIP license.   O ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups K ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 14:53:42 -0400 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>3 Subject: Re: HP to dump itanium - bring back alpha? . Message-ID: <43298AF6.19810.12DDB91@localhost>  + On 15 Sep 2005 at 11:50, Kevin Handy wrote: 6 > You actually are aboe to sell TCPIP? Years ago [...]- > Never was able to get them a TCPIP license.   F Part number QL-GL7AB-AA, $1815.00.  I got it through MSA, rather than - the HP web site (which I agree is worthless).   
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com) "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option"    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 18:12:14 -0700  From: Z <Z@no.spam> 2 Subject: Re: HP to lay off 5,000 in France/Europe?, Message-ID: <MZoWe.39984$1g2.14220@fe05.lga>   Dave Froble wrote:J >> "AP News is reporting that Palo Alto, California-based Hewlett-Packard H >> is 'fighting to stay competitive with formidable rivals like IBM and E >> Dell' and is announcing 5,900 European job cuts "to safeguard the  A >> future" of the company. From the article: 'Michel Destot, the  J >> Socialist deputy mayor of the southern France city of Grenoble - where J >> HP has one of its French plants - said the layoffs were "unacceptable" F >> and demand that HP managers also meet local politicians to discuss H >> scaling back the job cuts.'" This round following the first cut back  >> in July.  >>1 >> http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBE5QDVIDE.html   H > Why?  Are the 'local politicians' going to come up with some funds to K > suppliment the payroll?  HP cannot just raise taxes like the politicians   > do when they want more money.   H I wondered the same thing. What does the Mayor of Grenoble think he can E do - except maybe wave his arms and protest "mon dieu!" and get some  B good photo ops and cliches out in the press for the next election?  H Surely he's not delusional enough to think he can stop or mitigate this?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 21:31:44 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 2 Subject: Re: HP to lay off 5,000 in France/Europe?, Message-ID: <432A207B.F66A8884@teksavvy.com>   mark_hpq@yahoo.com wrote:  > D > HP France will be on strike tomorrow while the French Director was > requested E > to meet the French delegate ministry of work to explain the layoffs  > done despite" > the profits made by the Company.    G Prior to the acquisition of Digital, how much of a multinational was HP  ?     F Is it possible that HP lacks experience in managing foreign operations# according to foreign culture/laws ?   G The announcement of layofs in Germany just before the election seems to > me like a faux-pas (mistake) by HP, opr perhaps they are truly  politically involved in Germany.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 22:29:58 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 2 Subject: Re: HP to lay off 5,000 in France/Europe?0 Message-ID: <11ikb89ea33cq97@corp.supernews.com>   Z wrote: > Dave Froble wrote: > ; >>> "AP News is reporting that Palo Alto, California-based  E >>> Hewlett-Packard is 'fighting to stay competitive with formidable  H >>> rivals like IBM and Dell' and is announcing 5,900 European job cuts H >>> "to safeguard the future" of the company. From the article: 'Michel F >>> Destot, the Socialist deputy mayor of the southern France city of H >>> Grenoble - where HP has one of its French plants - said the layoffs D >>> were "unacceptable" and demand that HP managers also meet local C >>> politicians to discuss scaling back the job cuts.'" This round  ) >>> following the first cut back in July.  >>> 2 >>> http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBE5QDVIDE.html >  > I >> Why?  Are the 'local politicians' going to come up with some funds to  @ >> suppliment the payroll?  HP cannot just raise taxes like the , >> politicians do when they want more money. >  > J > I wondered the same thing. What does the Mayor of Grenoble think he can G > do - except maybe wave his arms and protest "mon dieu!" and get some  D > good photo ops and cliches out in the press for the next election? > J > Surely he's not delusional enough to think he can stop or mitigate this?  E Well, to a politician, the next election is not everything, it's the  ) only thing.  (Credits to Vince Lombardi.)    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 22:35:49 +0200 " From: Hans Blom <tocum2@yahoo.com>- Subject: initialize disk, how on openvms 6.x? B Message-ID: <1126816395.2c60548c03b852be421f13a307452c5c@teranews>  
 Hello all,H I received a question via telephone from a customer on how to initialize# a disk. Valiant as ever I answered: 5  "init dev: /nohigh/header=30000/owner=system my_lab" E I even tried the command on a local disk on my computer and patted my # back. Smart and cunning as usual!!!    But.... H When the customer entered the command he got "conflicting qualifiers..."G MMM? I run 7.3-2 and it worked for me, the customer runs something like : 6.? and gets the error. We both are on the Alpha-platform.  - Anybody got any idea what could be the cause?    Thanks in advance    Hans B Senior Software Consultant Sweden   PSG Might be double posted, sorry, I just reposted since it never showed up > for me in the newsgroup and it's a high priority issue for me.   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 16:06:33 -0500 (CDT) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)< Subject: Re: MPEG player with sound for "depth 24" graphics?2 Message-ID: <05091516063332_202003A2@antinode.org>  6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)  O > My MMOV$ALPHAVCR.EXE is from 31-MAR-2005 so you should upgrade to MMOV V2.2-1 3 > but I don't know if this solves your problem ;-)    H    It seems unlikely, but I would be happy to upgrade if I knew where to0 find the kit.  The first likely Web page I foundG ("http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/mmov/index.html") seems to F offer DEC-AXPVMS-MMOV-V0202--1.PCSI-DCX_AXPEXE and release notes datedB "April 2000" which discuss "Version 2.2".  Expanded, that PCSI kitC (DEC-AXPVMS-MMOV-V0202--1.PCSI) is dated "26-APR-2000 16:25:42.86".   H    As a lowly Hobbyist, I'm left to depend on the kindness of strangers,< as they say in New Orleans (or at least in plays set there).  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 19:22:57 -0500 (CDT) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)< Subject: Re: MPEG player with sound for "depth 24" graphics?2 Message-ID: <05091519225724_202003A2@antinode.org>  C From: vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de (Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann)    > How about the mplayer: > / > ftp://mvb.saic.com/extra/mplayer-vms-pre5.zip  > J > Never managed to generate the executable from the source, but I'm pretty > sure > you are more skilful.   G    Right.  Well, it claims to need a LIBUNGIF, but I didn't immediately F find a VMS-suitable kit for that.  The regular source (4.1.3) seems toG need a bunch of pounding before DEC/Compaq C will like it much.  Anyone ( have a pointer to something which works?  F    It also claims to need a GTK kit.  I see that HP is offering a GTK+D kit ("http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/gtk.html").  Is that suitable?  F    On a related topic, I seem to have found a kind soul who is sendingD me the latest MMOV kit(s), so I can see if anything new happens with that.   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 21:36:40 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Y Subject: Re: Old Flash Plug-in Crashes Mozilla/SWB (was: Re: HP SWB V1.7.8 consistent cra 3 Message-ID: <IPlWe.12749$9p5.9076@news.cpqcorp.net>   Y In article <hoiWe.12721$ea5.7752@news.cpqcorp.net>, hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes: ^ :In article <1126802586.560303.80080@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, jordan@ccs4vms.com writes: ..; :  Yes, there does appear to be broken code here somewhere.  ..2 :  Internal report PTR 75-109-617 has been logged. :  :  It is not clear if...  A   The necessary fix appears to be an upgrade to the Flash plug-in B   in use here.   Versions from December 2003 or later should work.@   You can download it from the 'net, including from the HP site:  E http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/cswb/cswb_plugins.html   ?   Mark Berryman (at SAIC) is the contact for the Flash plug-in.   >   HP and the HP SWB team are not supporting the Flash plug-in.    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Sep 2005 14:42:42 -0700 From: jordan@ccs4vms.comY Subject: Re: Old Flash Plug-in Crashes Mozilla/SWB (was: Re: HP SWB V1.7.8 consistent cra C Message-ID: <1126820562.527314.194360@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   > Thanks, Hoff.  All done before I could get home to try it too!   Rich   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Sep 2005 13:10:13 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 5 Subject: Re: OpenVMS FTP server with these features ? 3 Message-ID: <rAJYvYthWi+a@eisner.encompasserve.org>   T In article <30K4hr0$Zmq+@eisner.encompasserve.org>, briggs@encompasserve.org writes:K >>   OK, so how does the receiver know that this is a "special marker code" > >>   and not legitimate data.  (I don't have the RFC at hand). > B > In block transfer mode, there is a bit map of codes that is sentM > to characterize the contents of each block.  Code 16 indicates the presence  > of a restart marker.  
    Thanks.  G    How many FTP clients and servers implement block mode?  The client I     wrote didn't.   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Sep 2005 20:59:39 +01006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)" Subject: Re: OT: WLAN is not a LAN, Message-ID: <4329e0bb$1@news.langstoeger.at>  \ In article <0BeVS1+xuR2l@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>, huber@NOBODY-mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber) writes:f >In article <43289d39$1@news.langstoeger.at>, peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) writes: >> Because I just got burned: ? >> Don't think a WLAN (Wireless LAN with WLAN-Bridge) is a LAN. F >> AMDS, DECnet, LAT, MOP and SCS do NOT work across a WLAN. Silly me.G >> It seems, only IP is (transparently) forwarded over a "WLAN-Bridge".  > = >Therefore competent companies call it "Wireless LAN Router",  >not ...Bridge.   G I don't buy from "competent companies". I can't afford it privately ;-) K I buy SOHO products. And in this case it is called an USB print server with I integrated 4 port switch operating in WLAN bridging mode to connect to an # existing WLAN (with a WLAN router).    As I wrote, silly me.    -EPLAN  I And, a WLAN router is able to operate in "server" mode and not very often J in "client" mode. So, having 2 "Wireless LAN Router" may not work, either. --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Sep 2005 21:16:19 +01006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)" Subject: Re: OT: WLAN is not a LAN, Message-ID: <4329e4a3$1@news.langstoeger.at>  S In article <43299164.7050403@kittles.com>, Thomas Wirt <twnews@kittles.com> writes: H >I think that you need to check your config.  This should work with any ) >equipment that calls it's self a bridge.   G Ok, I take it as there is hope and not all "WLAN bridges" don't bridge. H May I ask, what would be your suggestion for a cheap SOHO 802.11g bridge with an integrated switch ?    -Peter  O PS: Yes, I'd be running TCPIP, AMDS and MOP but also LAT and probably SCS, too. L It is not the normal situation of course. Normal would be one server only...  K PPS: In the probable case I don't find a solution, I will use a CAT5 pulled  through 4 rooms... --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 22:17:35 +0200 - From: Alex van Denzel <vandenzel@hotmail.com> " Subject: Re: OT: WLAN is not a LAN7 Message-ID: <4329d6df$0$14598$dbd43001@news.wanadoo.nl>     Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:J > May I ask, what would be your suggestion for a cheap SOHO 802.11g bridge > with an integrated switch ?   F Dunno about the cheap, but a Linksys WET54GS5 seems to be what you're I looking for. Not to push it, but that's the only brand that's got such a  3 thing (checked Sweex, Sitecom, TrendNet and Belkin)    -- Alex.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 21:46:16 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) 7 Subject: Re: setting default protection for directories 4 Message-ID: <IYlWe.12751$9p5.10436@news.cpqcorp.net>  f In article <Xns96D2E66F14089lithiumnospamgmxat@212.33.32.148>, Bernhard <NOSPAMlithium@gmx.at> writes:  L :Could anyone point out how to set the default protection for newly created  :Dirs and subdirs?  C   With a newly-created one that you want to change, you can use the D   SET PROTECTION (an old command, but still functional) or the newerD   SET SECURITY (the prefered command) to change the protection mask.  H :I have found how to do this with files, but directories still have the % :delete right removed from the owner. E :Is it possible to give the dir owner the right to delete by default?   C   For historical reasons, the creation process strips delete off of B   each UIC access mode.  If you want to provide the delete access C   for the creator, you will want to a a CREATOR ACE onto the parent @   directory of the new directory.  This (as you might guess fromC   the name) sets up the access mask that is granted to the creator.   A   Details on ACEs and ACLs are within the System Security manual, 3   available at <http://www.hp.com/go/openvms/doc/>.   N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 17:26:56 -0400 % From: BRAD <bradhamilton@comcast.net> 7 Subject: Re: setting default protection for directories : Message-ID: <ef2dnfTR77y1erTenZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@comcast.com>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:  <snip>E >   For historical reasons, the creation process strips delete off of D >   each UIC access mode.  If you want to provide the delete access E >   for the creator, you will want to a a CREATOR ACE onto the parent B >   directory of the new directory.  This (as you might guess fromE >   the name) sets up the access mask that is granted to the creator.  >   I I'm interested in the "historical reasons"; can someone provide pointers  < to online information or resources on this particular topic?   <snip> --  . Bradford J. Hamilton "All opinions are my own"@                       "Lose the MAPS, and replace '-at-' with @"=                       "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job"    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Sep 2005 17:07:24 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 7 Subject: Re: setting default protection for directories 3 Message-ID: <vii07+o0Ffmc@eisner.encompasserve.org>   b In article <ef2dnfTR77y1erTenZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@comcast.com>, BRAD <bradhamilton@comcast.net> writes: > Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > <snip>F >>   For historical reasons, the creation process strips delete off ofE >>   each UIC access mode.  If you want to provide the delete access  F >>   for the creator, you will want to a a CREATOR ACE onto the parentC >>   directory of the new directory.  This (as you might guess from F >>   the name) sets up the access mask that is granted to the creator. >> > - > I'm interested in the "historical reasons";   E Under VMS V1, deleting a non-empty directory would create lost files.    > can someone provide pointers  > > to online information or resources on this particular topic?   Not I.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 18:25:47 -0400 0 From: BRAD <bMradAhamPiltSon-at-coMmcAast.nPeSt>7 Subject: Re: setting default protection for directories 0 Message-ID: <GOqdnWn5IbhxabTeRVn-hg@comcast.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:d > In article <ef2dnfTR77y1erTenZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@comcast.com>, BRAD <bradhamilton@comcast.net> writes: >  >>Hoff Hoffman wrote:  >><snip> >>F >>>  For historical reasons, the creation process strips delete off ofE >>>  each UIC access mode.  If you want to provide the delete access  F >>>  for the creator, you will want to a a CREATOR ACE onto the parentC >>>  directory of the new directory.  This (as you might guess from F >>>  the name) sets up the access mask that is granted to the creator. >>>  >>- >>I'm interested in the "historical reasons";  >  > G > Under VMS V1, deleting a non-empty directory would create lost files.    Good enough.  Thanks!    --  . Bradford J. Hamilton "All opinions are my own"@                       "Lose the MAPS, and replace '-at-' with @"=                       "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job"    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 23:02:16 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) 7 Subject: Re: setting default protection for directories 3 Message-ID: <Y3nWe.12766$yn5.5510@news.cpqcorp.net>   b In article <ef2dnfTR77y1erTenZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@comcast.com>, BRAD <bradhamilton@comcast.net> writes: :Hoff Hoffman wrote: ..F :>   For historical reasons, the creation process strips delete off of :>   each UIC access mode...J :I'm interested in the "historical reasons"; can someone provide pointers = :to online information or resources on this particular topic?     E   Within the distant mists of time, it was once possible to delete a  ?   directory with files in it, with the obvious repercussions.     H   The protection mask change -- the removal of the DELETE access -- was I   effectively a stop-gap way to reduce the likelyhood of an unintentional    directory deletion.     G   Based on some local code investigation, it looks like the F11ACP code G   change was between 1976 and 1982 or so.  From my own and occasionally H   buggy memory cache, the change to F11ACP to recognize a directory, andG   to particularly recognize a non-empty directory, well predates (as it    was then known) VAX/VMS V3.0.   G   Andy (who may well have perpetrated the code change under discussion) (   doesn't remember it off-hand, either.   E   Go fiche!  (Been a while since I've used that old chestnut. :-)  If D   you've copies of the source listings microfiche, go have a look...  N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 18:16:46 GMT % From: Rick Jones <rick.jones2@hp.com> # Subject: Re: Sun using the "I" word 3 Message-ID: <iUiWe.12725$Ka5.7079@news.cpqcorp.net>   & Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org> wrote:B > The HP online store for small/medium business systems, RX1620-2:   > http://h71016.www7.hp.com/dstore/MiddleFrame.asp?page=config&ProductLineId=431&FamilyId=2047&BaseId=13372&oi=E9CED&BEID=19701&SBLID=  $ > With the following customizations:  # > 	- 2x1.6 GHz Itanium 2 processors   > 	- 4x4 GB pairs (total: 16 GB)$ > 	- 1x73 GB 15K RPM SCSI hard drive; > 	- 1xDVD-ROM drive (This is standard in all current Suns)    > Grand total? $24,133.00.  B I've no idea what it would do to the pricing, but the rx1620 has 8D DIMM slots, so to get 16 GB of RAM one can use 2GB DIMMS rather than
 4GB DIMMs.  B As for how much RAM is _needed_ in a given box for a given SPECcpuB score, since the SPECcpu suite has no pricing component, it is notD unusual to have more RAM than necessary.  Particularly if the box is/ going to be passed-around for other benchmarks.   4 > However, I can tell you the Sun X4100 server with:  D > 	- *2* dual-core AMD Opteron model 275 processors (total: 4 cores) > 	- 1x4 GB of RAM > 	- 2x73 GB (10K RPM?) drives > 	- 1xDVD-ROM drive  G > ...costs USD $7395. The AMD Opteron 275 (dual-core) is clocked at 2.2 2 > GHz and each core has a dedicated 1 MB L2 cache.  F I believe that the Sun page with this "metric" was using Opteron 280's and not 275's.  @ Whether it is apropriate to take the maximum rating of the powerD supply rather than the actual power consumption is another question.D It is though likely all that Sun had at their disposal, and it seemsD to have suited their desires.  That the Sun URL shows the two socketF rx2620 with a power supply as "big" as the four-socket rx4640 suggestsC that at least some of the power supplies were over spec'ed.  I know E from my own internal netperf stuff on 1.5 GHz rx2600 that I never got , anywhere near to 1350 watts - more like 400.  C That of course is only amplified when one starts multiplying things . together the way Sun does with their "metric."  	 And, per:   T http://www.hp.com/products1/servers/integrity/entry_level/rx2620/specifications.html  B The rx2620's power supply's maximum output is 600 Watts, not 1350.  F The extent to which other power supplies were over spec'd is not clear/ - seems the Opteron 280 is up to 120 Watts now: 2 http://www.itjungle.com/tlb/tlb091305-story02.html   etc etc etc   
 rick jones --  G oxymoron n, Hummer H2 with California Save Our Coasts and Oceans plates F these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)D feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH...   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 14:12:08 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net># Subject: Re: Sun using the "I" word = Message-ID: <l9GdnekNHavkJLTeRVn-3Q@metrocastcablevision.com>    Dave Froble wrote: > JF Mezei wrote:  >  >> Dave Froble wrote:  >>F >>> I'm more current on the Athlon64 CPUs than the Opterons, so may beJ >>> wrong.  I think the Opteron 275 is 90 nm, while itanic is still at .13I >>> micron.  So comparing apples and apples, the Opteron buyer is getting  >>> more current tech. >> >> >> >> >> This is an invalid argument.  >  > 1 > It's not an argument, it's a statement of fact.   G I suspect that JF completely missed the drift of what you were saying:  , his response above made no sense whatsoever.   ...   F   > The itanic is NOT playing 'catch up'.  It's just trailing behind.  If it G > was trying to 'catch up', that would be better than what's happening.   F To be fair, since Merced was an absolute joke for anything but SPECfp F performance McKinley indeed *did* 'catch up' significantly by roughly H equaling Alpha and POWER4 performance in SPECint_base (though not peak) = scores.  And later Madison managed to pull slightly ahead in  B SPECint_base (though in part because Alpha was still stuck in the % previous 180 nm. process generation).   D Furthermore, given the resources that Intel was pouring into Itanic H until about a year ago there was every indication that it *was* 'trying G to catch up' in the areas where it remained deficient:  it just didn't  C succeed in that effort (POWER4+ leaving it in the dust in per-core  F commercial performance, and POWER5 burying it even more convincingly).  C Itanic is a usable product, just not an impressive one (especially  E considering the time, effort, and money poured into it over the past  I decade-plus).  With Montecito, it appears that it will gain no ground in  G relative performance and might even lose some:  yes, having more cache  H will help, but it's not as if the competition were standing still - and E Montecito's currently-reported clock rates are very disappointing to  I Itanic boosters (1.6 - 1.8 GHz doesn't sound nearly as good as the 2.0 -  D 2.5 GHz that HP was publicly touting very recently for it, and what G projections have been leaked for its successor Montvale seem similarly  B pulled-back).  However, Montecito *does* appear to solve Itanic's K power-consumption problem, which must be considered a major accomplishment.   F The bottom line is that Itanic achieved too little, too late - and is H now paying the price of the ridiculously inflated expectations that its > parents established for it.  POWER's per-core performance has B consistently remained solidly ahead of it in the large commercial F systems where the highest margins are to be made (SPARC64 is somewhat I ahead as well, and even the Alpha and PA-RISC products slain to make way  B for Itanic are still giving it credible competition), and x86 has H (largely thanks to AMD) stubbornly refused to cede the low ground to it I (IBM's new X3 'Hurricane' chipset is competing effectively core-for-core  H with Itanic up to 8 cores in TPC-C and should scale at least reasonably F well to its maximum of 32 sockets, since the 8-socket version already F crosses a board boundary, and in the 4-socket-and-under range Opteron @ and/or Xeon out-perform Itanic convincingly in some other major F commercial benchmarks).  Combine that with Itanic's lackadaisical x86 H emulation, SGI's reported plans to offer Altixs built around Xeons, and D potentially important wild-cards like Sun's Niagara, and there's no E persuasive argument for anyone to switch to Itanic unless a) they're  D effectively being forced to by their vendor and/or b) the vendor is  virtually giving them away.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 14:28:26 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net># Subject: Re: Sun using the "I" word = Message-ID: <vrGdnXgFR5zWILTeRVn-qg@metrocastcablevision.com>    Rick Jones wrote:    ...   D > I've no idea what it would do to the pricing, but the rx1620 has 8F > DIMM slots, so to get 16 GB of RAM one can use 2GB DIMMS rather than > 4GB DIMMs.  E I suspect nothing - because AFAICT the price was arrived at by using   eight 2 GB DIMMs.    > D > As for how much RAM is _needed_ in a given box for a given SPECcpuD > score, since the SPECcpu suite has no pricing component, it is notF > unusual to have more RAM than necessary.  Particularly if the box is1 > going to be passed-around for other benchmarks.   F The point is not how much RAM is required to run SPECcpu effectively: B the point is to compare similarly-configured systems (and the Sun . systems were also equipped with 16 GB of RAM).   > B > Whether it is apropriate to take the maximum rating of the powerF > supply rather than the actual power consumption is another question.F > It is though likely all that Sun had at their disposal, and it seemsF > to have suited their desires.  That the Sun URL shows the two socketH > rx2620 with a power supply as "big" as the four-socket rx4640 suggestsE > that at least some of the power supplies were over spec'ed.  I know G > from my own internal netperf stuff on 1.5 GHz rx2600 that I never got . > anywhere near to 1350 watts - more like 400. > E > That of course is only amplified when one starts multiplying things 0 > together the way Sun does with their "metric."  > Indeed - the farther that Sun got away from up-front cost and ; performance comparisons, the more they descended into hype.   2 Of course, HP would never do anything like that...   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Sep 2005 21:35:35 +01006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)# Subject: Re: Sun using the "I" word , Message-ID: <4329e927$1@news.langstoeger.at>  ^ In article <1126787660.871584.21650@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, bob@instantwhip.com writes:H >vms will be ported or a lot of unhappy customers will leave HP forever!  D Note, this group predicted such conclusions for over one decade now.H If DEC would do this, the customers would leave and it would be suicide.K If COMPAQ would do that, the customers would leave and it would be suicide. O And guess what ? These companies were silly and did suicide (and VMS suffered).   N Even Mark "the rumors of my death are greatly exceggarated" Twain is dead now.  J VMS can't survive one more decade of such a handling like the last decade.K Next time, VMS is really dead and maybe the whole company, too. OTOH, maybe $ this time the company can survive...  L As bad as it is, we have to hope, IA64 keeps alive (just to keep VMS alive).2 And in the meantime, used Alphas raise in price...   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 02:16:38 GMT 5 From: rdeininger@mindspringdot.com (Robert Deininger) # Subject: Re: Sun using the "I" word L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1509052216350001@user-uinj4gu.dialup.mindspring.com>  G In article <urudnfZSj7q7M7TeRVn-1w@metrocastcablevision.com>, Bill Todd  <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:    >Robert Deininger wrote:8 >> In article <432917E8.294CCAF5@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei( >> <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote: >>   >> ... >>   >>  J >>>At least Alpha was a leader and wasn't needing to play catch up all theJ >>>time. And had Alpha been given the same amount of  resources that IA64,G >>>EV7 would have been released on time and made very difficult for its  >>   >> competitors.  >>  J >> That is nonsense.  The Alpha EV7 schedule was driven by the need to fix >> critical bugs > I >According to the chip architects themselves (rather than kibitzers like  I >you who seem to believe any trash that the party line may dish out) the  G >EV7 schedule was frequently disrupted during the post-Pfeiffer era by  E >diversion of critical resources (including people) to work on other   >activities.  L Dunno about the early design phase.  Maybe more resources would have helped.  F But from the time Marvel systems first booted Tru64 and VMS in the 2ndF half of 2001, until the systems shipped, the schedule was dominated byG testing/debugging/fixing, with critical EV7 (and IO7) bugs contributing F the lion's share of the delays.  Of course there were many bugs in the OS's and the firmware as well.  J As I was participating in the effort, I'll continue to trust my own memoryH and documentation, and the judgement of the HW engineers who were closer than I was to the EV7 work.   H >This does not mean that EV7 would have shipped in late Y2K/early 2001, B >as the schedule originally planned.  But it does indicate a) the H >relative priority with which Compaq viewed Alpha development (which is J >entirely consistent with the rest of the evidence at the CEO level, from I >the cancellation of AlphaNT development to the statement that the first  J >thing Curly discussed with Robison when the latter came on board was why G >continued Alpha development was not justifiable) and b) that this had  " >*some* effect upon EV7 schedules. > G >(Though it still doesn't explain why a chip that had been running VMS  J >and Tru64 for over 6 months in January, 2002, was at that time, when any , >flaws should already have been discovered,   G Should already have been discovered?  According to who?  6 months after I first boot isn't very long, and in the Marvel case, there were bugs still G undiscovered at that time.  Some of them were very hard to root cause.  - Sorry if reality conflicts with your opinion.    >scheduled to ship in 2002Q3  G >but then quietly slipped into 2003Q1:  that seems more likely to have  E >been pure stall time to avoid overshadowing the McKinley release in   >mid-2002.)   I The last few months of delay were due to EV7 and IO7 bug fixes, which had H to be implemented and prototyped, and then verified with significant run@ time.  Then enough chips had to be made to support shipment of a reasonable volume of systems.   I In 2002Q3, Marvels were suffering from semi-reproducible crashes and data H corruptors, with root causes not yet determined.  I don't know of anyoneI inside the company who thought it would be acceptable to ship the systems J in order to meet a slideware schedule -- that's not the way Compaq (or HP)	 operated.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 00:30:58 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net># Subject: Re: Sun using the "I" word = Message-ID: <zK-dnXf-Mqgb17feRVn-3w@metrocastcablevision.com>    Robert Deininger wrote: I > In article <urudnfZSj7q7M7TeRVn-1w@metrocastcablevision.com>, Bill Todd ! > <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote:  >  >  >>Robert Deininger wrote:  >>8 >>>In article <432917E8.294CCAF5@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei( >>><jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote: >>>  >>>... >>>  >>>  >>> K >>>>At least Alpha was a leader and wasn't needing to play catch up all the K >>>>time. And had Alpha been given the same amount of  resources that IA64, H >>>>EV7 would have been released on time and made very difficult for its >>>  >>>competitors.  >>> J >>>That is nonsense.  The Alpha EV7 schedule was driven by the need to fix >>>critical bugs >>J >>According to the chip architects themselves (rather than kibitzers like J >>you who seem to believe any trash that the party line may dish out) the H >>EV7 schedule was frequently disrupted during the post-Pfeiffer era by F >>diversion of critical resources (including people) to work on other 
 >>activities.  >  > % > Dunno about the early design phase.   G EV7's 'early design phase' was completed before Curly took the helm in  D April, 1999.  We're talking about the active development phase here.  ) > Maybe more resources would have helped.   I Not so much 'more resources' perhaps as more dedicated, less interrupted  8 use of the resources that had originally been allocated.   > H > But from the time Marvel systems first booted Tru64 and VMS in the 2ndH > half of 2001, until the systems shipped, the schedule was dominated byI > testing/debugging/fixing, with critical EV7 (and IO7) bugs contributing H > the lion's share of the delays.  Of course there were many bugs in the  > OS's and the firmware as well. > L > As I was participating in the effort, I'll continue to trust my own memoryJ > and documentation, and the judgement of the HW engineers who were closer > than I was to the EV7 work.   F Your description of specific bugs here was the first such description B I've ever heard from anyone connected with the project (let alone I anything official from HP itself).  As I noted, the publicly-stated plan  D in January, 2002, after 6+ months of testing with VMS and Tru64 had G already occurred (including large configurations), was to ship in Q3 -  H but if late bugs of the significance you describe indeed surfaced later F they would clearly have justified delays until they had been resolved.  H The fact that HP said *nothing*, but just let the schedule slip another B 4 - 5 months without comment, is suspicious when coupled with the H release of McKinley in July, 2002.  But what you've said today suggests E that there may have been some actual justification for it - in which  B case (unlike the earlier diversions of effort) HP may merely have G handled the situation incompetently (still quite possibly because they  @ didn't want discussion of Alpha to be taking any portion of the  limelight away from McKinley).   - bill   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 14:05:47 -0500 (CDT) * From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)4 Subject: Re: Wget 1.10.1a (less preliminary) exists.2 Message-ID: <05091514054758_202003A2@antinode.org>  H    As a user complaint revealed, it should have stayed preliminary a bitA longer.  Operations with a VMS FTP server typically failed with a I spurious complaint like "No such directory `perfectly/vaild/directory'."     ALP $ diff FTP.C ************; File ALP$DKA0:[UTILITY.SOURCE.WGET.WGET-1_10_1A.SRC]FTP.C;5 .   641             err = ftp_cwd (csock, targ);6   642             /* FTPRERR, WRITEFAILED, FTPNSFOD */ ******; File ALP$DKA0:[UTILITY.SOURCE.WGET.WGET-1_10_1A.SRC]FTP.C;4 0   641             err = ftp_cwd (csock, target);6   642             /* FTPRERR, WRITEFAILED, FTPNSFOD */ ************  ;    Interested folks may delete the spurious "et" manually.  D Alternatively, the Web page ("http://antinode.org/dec/sw/wget.html")E should now offer a (whole) repaired FTP.C (and a slightly incremented  VERSION.H for the fastidious).  A    Another interesting bit of FTP server behavior was observed at A ftp.process.com while investigating the complaint.  Initially, it 5 reports a VMS identity (and lists files accordingly):    FTP> quote SYST  215 VMS TCPware V5.6-2  ; However, after Wget (or any other user) does its usual "CWD - <UNIX-like_directory_path>", it changes mode:    FTP> cd vms-freeware/fileserv  250 CWD command okay.    FTP> quote SYST & 215 UNIX TCPware Unix Emulation V5.6-2  H    One result of this is that if Wget tries to do multiple operations inH one session on such a server (as when multiple FTP URLs are specified onF a single command line, or if a recursive download is attempted), it'llE probably be confused (and fail) after the first one.  Wget checks the B server type only once, apparently expecting it not to wake up as aE cockroach one morning.  There are a couple of possible fixes for this ( (at least).  If I get bored one day, ...      Everything's complicated.  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  4    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-98183    382 South Warwick Street        sms@antinode-org     Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.517 ************************                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      --------------------------------------------------------  
========================================================
FAL OpenVMS Alpha V7.2(X-9) started execution on 25-MAY-2003 20:58:05.86
  with SYS$NET = MOOSE.JLAB.ORG::"0=JUENGST" and
  with FAL$LOG = 1/DISABLE=8
 Requested file access operation: Open file      
Specified file: DISK$MISC:[DECUS.VAX91B.CANADA.LEADER91.NAPLUG]BACKUP.DIR;1cM Resultant file: DISK$MISC:[DECUS.VAX91B.CANADA.LEADER91.NAPLUG]BACKUP.DIR;1F6 File access was terminated with no bits set on close Requested file access operation: Open file      
Specified file: DISK$MISC:[DECUS.VAX91B.CANADA.LEADER91.NAPLUG]OPERATOR.DIR;1cO Resultant file: DISK$MISC:[DECUS.VAX91B.CANADA.LEADER91.NAPLUG]OPERATOR.DIR;1d6 File access was terminated with no bits set on closex 
FAL terminated execution on      25-MAY-2003 20:58:06.62
========================================================
 B         -------------------------------------------------------- =         Connect request received at 25-MAY-2003 20:58:07.25a=             from remote process MOOSE.JLAB.ORG::"0=JUENGST"C5             for object "SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]FAL.EXE"u B         --------------------------------------------------------  
========================================================
FAL OpenVMS Alpha V7.2(X-9) started execution on 25-MAY-2003 20:58:07.27
  with SYS$NET = MOOSE.JLAB.ORG::"0=JUENGST" and
  with FAL$LOG = 1/DISABLE=8
 Requested file access operation: Open file