1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 26 Sep 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 538       Contents:4 Re: France keeps up pressure on Hewlett-Packard jobs4 Re: France keeps up pressure on Hewlett-Packard jobs4 Re: France keeps up pressure on Hewlett-Packard jobs4 Re: France keeps up pressure on Hewlett-Packard jobs4 Re: France keeps up pressure on Hewlett-Packard jobs4 Re: France keeps up pressure on Hewlett-Packard jobs4 Re: France keeps up pressure on Hewlett-Packard jobs4 Re: France keeps up pressure on Hewlett-Packard jobs4 Re: France keeps up pressure on Hewlett-Packard jobs4 Re: France keeps up pressure on Hewlett-Packard jobs4 Re: France keeps up pressure on Hewlett-Packard jobs4 Re: France keeps up pressure on Hewlett-Packard jobs4 Re: France keeps up pressure on Hewlett-Packard jobs4 Re: France keeps up pressure on Hewlett-Packard jobs4 Re: France keeps up pressure on Hewlett-Packard jobs4 Re: France keeps up pressure on Hewlett-Packard jobs4 Re: France keeps up pressure on Hewlett-Packard jobs4 Re: France keeps up pressure on Hewlett-Packard jobs4 Re: France keeps up pressure on Hewlett-Packard jobs4 Re: France keeps up pressure on Hewlett-Packard jobs$ Re: HP SWB V1.7.8 consistent crasherP Re: HP will have to give back 1.25 M EUR help that it got to createjobs. createj HP's strategy explained :  Re: HP's strategy explained :  Re: Kea and VMS  Re: Kea and VMS 6 Re: New SWB (Mozilla) browser version 1.7.11 availableD Re: New SWB (Mozilla) browser version 1.7.11, spam filtering problem, Re: Quo vadis Galaxy or VMS (a bit rambling), RE: Quo vadis Galaxy or VMS (a bit rambling)# Re: Remote X Session to PC thru SSH - Sites needed to run TAPESYS V6.2.0 on itanium  SWXCR RAID Configuration Re: SWXCR RAID ConfigurationC Re: Tentative DCL suggestion: string return value from .COM (Hello, " Re: Translating VAX ts to Macro-32" Re: Translating VAX ts to Macro-32- VAX 8350/8200 - Lights on, but nobody home... 1 Re: VAX 8350/8200 - Lights on, but nobody home... 1 Re: VAX 8350/8200 - Lights on, but nobody home... 1 Re: VAX 8350/8200 - Lights on, but nobody home... % Re: VAX Sysgen Parameter - SCSRESPCNT 3 Re: VAX8350 Power Supply (H7251/H7253) problems.... 3 Re: VAX8350 Power Supply (H7251/H7253) problems.... 3 Re: VAX8350 Power Supply (H7251/H7253) problems.... 3 Re: VAX8350 Power Supply (H7251/H7253) problems.... 3 Re: VAX8350 Power Supply (H7251/H7253) problems.... ! VMS 4.6/4.7 Local Area VAXcluster ' Re: VMS consultants/experts please read   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 18:10:49 +1200 $ From: "Lurker" <nowhere@nothing.com>= Subject: Re: France keeps up pressure on Hewlett-Packard jobs 5 Message-ID: <YgMZe.14378$iM2.1186751@news.xtra.co.nz>   C "Adam Russell" <adamrussell@sbcglobal.net.invalid> wrote in message % news:3po11bFbbkqpU1@individual.net...  > 1 > "Lurker" <nowhere@nothing.com> wrote in message 1 > news:f2uZe.14238$iM2.1177692@news.xtra.co.nz... > > > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message* > > news:4335EA9C.8CE7BF4E@teksavvy.com... > > @ > >> Live with it. Your population re-elected the war criminals. > > ? > > 1: To declare someone a criminal (let alone a war criminal) 0 > > requires a court and jury - you are neither. > > : > > 2: In fact, the claim you've made is likely to qualify@ > > as an offence itself - libel at least. It's up to the courts > > to decide. > H > If Bush feels that it is libel then he has the right to sue for libel. You > > have *no* standing to make legal complaint on Bush's behalf.  < Who said that I do? Certianly not I. But, somehow, JF thinks9 he has the legal standing to pronounce someone a criminal  all on his own.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 04:40:23 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> = Subject: Re: France keeps up pressure on Hewlett-Packard jobs , Message-ID: <4337B3BC.B84D040E@teksavvy.com>  
 Lurker wrote: > > Who said that I do? Certianly not I. But, somehow, JF thinks; > he has the legal standing to pronounce someone a criminal  > all on his own.    I don't have legal standing.  - The US freely admits to having invaded Iraq.    G The US freely admits that invaded Iraq without a second UN resolution.    E The UN 1441 resolution *as adopted* differs from what the Bush regime @ told its citizens, and differs from the resolution which the USA% presented to the UN security council.     G 1441 did not grant anyone the right to invade Iraq.  The only reason it G passed was because the USA agreed to remove the text which specifically  granted it the right to invade.   @ You may recall that Blix had gotten agreement from Iraq for FULLG inspections before 1441, but the USA vetoed the return of UN inspectors H until a new resolution was passed (hoping such resolution would grant it9 the right to invade at the first sign of non compliance).     F The 1990 resolutions granted use of military force to free Kuwait from@ an illegal Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. Since in 2003, Iraq was not7 invading Kuwait, there was no implicit right to invade.   < The "serious conseqences" of 1441 were based on two aspects:2 	the UN declaring Iraq was not cooperaring to 1441A 	the UN deciding exactlty what the serious consequences would be.   F Therefore, since the invasion of Iraq was not sanctioned by the UN, itH was illegal and had has much moral validity as Iraq's invasion of KuwaitD (both claimed "self defense" from a potential attack), the USA, UK,.. Spain and Australia are guilty of a war crime.  F These 4 countries freely admit their involvement in the destruction ofH Iraq and therefore there is no question that they are guilty since thereA is plenty of proof that they participated in this illegal action.     E While the USA cried fould over France threathening to use its veto to B block a second resolution, the USA has used its own veto many manyF times. And because of the veto of the USA and UK, the UN was and stillA is incapable of passing a resolution which formally declares this 9 illegal and puts sanctiosn against the guilty countries.    G When the UN was formed, it was never considered that a rogue war monger C government would be elected to head the USA which, due to its veto, F could disregard all international law since it can veto any resolutionE against it.  It has happened and the UN still can't do anything about D it. Anan tried to reform the security council, but of course the USAJ stopped it. (The USA media didn't cover that because of Katrina coverage).      F People here often complain about HP and Compaq shareholders not takingE the leaders to task for bad management. The same applies to americans E who blindly re-elected one of the most dangerous regime the world has E known in recent history. Hussein didn't have the finger on the button B controlling a nuclear arsenal that can destroy the world 10 times. Cheney/Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz do.     F You didn't invade Iraq because you needed it. You invaded Iraq becauseE Rumsfeld/Cheney/Wolfowitz WANTED to, to stroke their own egos to show C the USA was still a powerful military nation. It amazes me that the E american people didn't tolerate Clinton lying about a blow job in the G oval office, but they support their president lying about reasons to go D to war, killing tens of thousands of innocent people, including 2000E americans, and spending how many hundreds of billions on this game to 3 please just the egos of Cheney/Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz ?   C Lying about why you are going to war is far more serious thah lying E about a blow job. Yet, your current government not only isn't getting K punished, they got re-elected in the face of reports that showed they lied.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 05:39:18 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>= Subject: Re: France keeps up pressure on Hewlett-Packard jobs = Message-ID: <06WdnZe4qs9aXKreRVn-1w@metrocastcablevision.com>    Michael Johnson, PE wrote: > Bill Todd wrote: >  >> Michael Johnson, PE wrote:  >> >> ... >>J >>> Personally, I prefer an economic system where hard work and ingenuity I >>> is rewarded and not one where mediocrity and stagnation are the norm.  >> >>I >> I guess that pretty much rules out the U.S. these days - but it would  G >> be nice to think that such an environment survives somewhere in the  	 >> world.  >  > E > I see it every day here in the USA and experience it personally. ;)   A You just keep living in that happy little imaginary bubble until  D something bursts it beyond your ability to ignore the fact, Michael.  / Hey, "Who knew the levies would break?", right?    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 06:37:19 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> = Subject: Re: France keeps up pressure on Hewlett-Packard jobs 0 Message-ID: <11jfjgpfl5o0a32@corp.supernews.com>   Bill Todd wrote: > Dave Froble wrote: >  > ...  > H >> Frankly, I'm appalled at how things have turned out.  The USA is the 4 >> major victim.  Our whole way of life has changed. >  > K > Self-inflicted wounds do not make one a 'victim', Dave:  they just prove  K > that a country is seriously deranged and/or out of control.  You already  J > appear to agree about the nature of the problem (at least insofar as it F > relates to internal U.S. matters):  now you just need to find a way D > around the denial about who's responsible for it, and then you'll A > perhaps be ready to start trying to do something to correct it.   H Seeing as I approved of the idea of getting rid of Saddam, then I guess  I'm as responsible as anyone.   F > Changing one person's life-long myopia at a time can be a very slow  > process, but it's a start. >  > - bill  3 You're not always right.  You may think so.  Wrong.   E If I error, it's with the intent of favoring freedom, life, liberty,  J happiness, and such.  Even though I know what paves the road to hell.  :-(   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   Date: 26 Sep 2005 12:38:35 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)= Subject: Re: France keeps up pressure on Hewlett-Packard jobs + Message-ID: <3pq8ebFblgi5U1@individual.net>   ) In article <ltHZe.9795$eH2.998@fe02.lga>,  	Z <Z@no.spam> writes: > ian lincoln wrote:F >> If Mr Z your job is lost to I.T. or foreign labour you won't be so  >> indifferent.  >  > Been there, done that. > E > Not even the most recent period of protracted unemployment (9 mos)  G > turned me into a complainer or a corporate hater. I used my newfound  J > spare time to update and improve my skills and jump back into the labor  > pool.  > J > It seems that many others (here) have decided to spend their spare time H > less wisely, simply raging blindly against the evil corporate machine K > and fantasizing about how much better life would be if only they were in  M > a union. I'm not sure that "skill" will help them land a new or better job.   + Ah yes, "Unions, the opiate of the people."   @ I only belonged to a union once.  Not by choice really, it was aD "closed shop". (As an aside, it is interesting how it is illegal forC a company to keep out a union, but not illegal for a union to force  employees to be a member.)  C It was back in 1972.  I had just come off my first Active Army tour D and under a current program called Project Transition the Army payedA GTE (then the number two phone company in the country) to provide A training to prepare separating soldiers for civilian jobs.  I was E trained as a Lineman & Cable Splicer.  I came home to Pennsylvania to G the aftermath of Hurricane Agnes (yes, hurricanes can hit further north C than NO).  The devastation was pretty extensive and the local phone J company was hiring experienced and qualified people.  With my GTE trainingG and Army experience I got a job.  Of course, as I said, it was a closed H shop and I had to join the union.  At that point, it didn't bother me asH I had no experience with unions and in school I had learned how they hadE done so much for the working man.  In a very short time, I received a  real education.   F The flood work, paid for mostly by government disaster recovery money,E lasted about 6 months.  At the end of that 6 months all of the people C hired with me to do the recovery work were informed that we were to F be layed off and replaced with "helpers" with no experience.  NeedlessD to say, we didn't think that was particularly fair and the union wasB approached by some of the long time employees (and long time unionD members) to see what could be done.  You know what the unions answerB was? "The new employess will be required to join the union and payD the same dues as the ones being layed off.  So this has no effect onE the union."  Needless to say, I lost my job to be replaced by someone C who, not knowing what he was getting into, lasted less than 30 days B before he quit to look for a job that was not as hard or as dirty.C No, I didn't get my job back.  But it taught me a real lesson about / the labor movement that I have never forgotten.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 20:55:55 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com = Subject: Re: France keeps up pressure on Hewlett-Packard jobs - Message-ID: <87psqwf0o4.fsf@prep.synonet.com>    Z <Z@no.spam> writes:    > David J Dachtera wrote: E >>>I don't have to prove anything.  Just look at the current state of C >>>France's economy.  The proof is already staring you in the face.  > J >> Only proves that the model doesn't work. Doesn't identify the cause(s). > @ > Color me surprised; you realize the French model doesn't work. > G > But now, this makes me wonder - why do you think something similar to ) > the French model would work in the USA?   0 Seems to be working for Ratheon at the moment...   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Sep 2005 08:20:24 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) = Subject: Re: France keeps up pressure on Hewlett-Packard jobs 3 Message-ID: <TSr4mkcBbXJU@eisner.encompasserve.org>   P In article <2ngcj15rgsa0hcffrfpustr0n4okta1jih@4ax.com>, kashe@sonic.net writes: > / > 	A contract is a contract, unless you have an G > administration-friendly bankruptcy judge to toss it in the toilet for  > you.  @    Or your contract, being governed by contract law, is with the,    government, which simply changes the law.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:27:26 -0600 6 From: "Michael D. Ober" <obermd.@.alum.mit.edu.nospam>= Subject: Re: France keeps up pressure on Hewlett-Packard jobs / Message-ID: <jzTZe.11$hp6.4845@news.uswest.net>   5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message A news:WsSdnXSxh6Cq3qrenZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com...  > Michael Johnson, PE wrote: >  > ...  > L > > Personally, I prefer an economic system where hard work and ingenuity isF > > rewarded and not one where mediocrity and stagnation are the norm. > J > I guess that pretty much rules out the U.S. these days - but it would beI > nice to think that such an environment survives somewhere in the world.  >  > - bill >   I Long term - it can't.  Socialism simply goes against millions of years of G survival instincts.  It works for small (family) groups, but in a large K group of unrelated people, socialism simply violates all rules of survival.   
 Mike Ober.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 10:51:17 -0400 ? From: "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" <david@hpaq.net> = Subject: Re: France keeps up pressure on Hewlett-Packard jobs 0 Message-ID: <11jg2k9o9r06l69@corp.supernews.com>   Bill   I am English - not American H But I have several members of Family in UK and in the US by marriage who  died fighting Germany in France.I Enough said. Granted Japan was a decider but remember those Liberty ships + carrying all kinds of equipment to Britain.  Or did I just imagine that?      DT   --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X252  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@icusc.com  Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html   5 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@metrocast.net> wrote in message 7 news:J7CdncosI_UyIqneRVn-vQ@metrocastcablevision.com...  > d b turner wrote: I > > Hell, after 1945 when AMERICA and the UK, Canada, etc.  bailed France  out ofB > > occupation you would think it would be gracious to an American corporation  > > such as HP.  > I > A lot more likely than that Americans like you will cease being morons, 	 > anyway.  > I > The French thanked us more than adequately for returning the favor they B > had done for us in helping us eliminate God Save The King as ourJ > national anthem.  Though that has very little to do with their relations+ > with a multinational corporation like HP.  >  > > G > > As for the money given by French government, I wonder how many GI's  lives ! > > were taken protecting France.  > F > Funny - I don't recall *any* GI's lives being sacrificed to 'protectH > France':  as best I can remember, we didn't even *enter* the war untilE > December, 1941 - long after Germany invaded France, the French were F > largely on their own during the German onslaught (though England wasG > starting to mobilize at the time), and only long afterward did others H > take any effective action to try to reverse that (not specifically forF > France, of course:  it was a matter of self-interest to keep GermanyH > from extending its dominion to England and eventually across the ocean	 > to us).  >  > > L > > After all, if it wasn't for our Grandfathers/Fathers, the Prime Minister of3 > > France would be the UnterFuhrer von Frankreich.  > G > Or quite possibly of the French Soviet Socialist Republic, had we not I > stepped in to meet the Russians half-way.  As I noted, our actions were D > very much in what we perceived to be our *own* self-interest (see,G > again, the fact that we weren't even involved until we ourselves were B > attacked, and even then didn't declare war on Germany until theyE > declared war on us) - though, as I also noted, the French were (and H > remain) truly grateful for the fact that our actions happened to be in > their interests as well. >  > - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:37:42 -0600 6 From: "Michael D. Ober" <obermd.@.alum.mit.edu.nospam>= Subject: Re: France keeps up pressure on Hewlett-Packard jobs / Message-ID: <XITZe.12$hp6.4889@news.uswest.net>   J Actually, US emissions are lower than almost every country that has signedH Kyoto.  This is because our state and local governments have passed lawsL curbing emissions.  Most of the countries that signed Kyoto are in violation of the treaty.  
 Mike Ober.  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:4336FF99.1C647BFD@teksavvy.com... > David J Dachtera wrote: K > > I would be hard-pressed to suggest anything a local government could do 7 > > that would improve the global economic environment.  > J > If the USA were to accept Kyoto and set targets to lower its reliance onF > oil, it could then get India and China to also implement Kyoto. As aG > resyult fo this, oil prices would stop having constant pressure to go 9 > up. And that would gretaly benefit the world's economy.  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 10:56:39 -0400 ? From: "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" <david@hpaq.net> = Subject: Re: France keeps up pressure on Hewlett-Packard jobs 0 Message-ID: <11jg2ub69bo5s6a@corp.supernews.com>   Please stop this posting  % It is getting old and very off topic.    NEXT PLEASE...   --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X252  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@icusc.com  Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html   : "Don S" <suterdfNoSpam@NoSpamverizon.net> wrote in message# news:YICZe.1008$il4.651@trnddc04...  > Aka wrote: > H > > In Saint Louis we have seen the great results of the American way of	 > > life. J > > No forward planning (water protection, ghetto forming, elderly care) -F > > just look at those silly levees to know what America stands for: aI > > fast buck and lots of vapid sanctimonious praying to a Coca Cola god.  > >  > > Aka  > B > You have it backwards, it is the perfect example of the "French"G > influence on the American way,.  If it weren't for the corrupt French @ > influence the levies would have been much bigger and stronger. >              Don S   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 11:01:50 -0400   From: "Dion" <dion@noreturn.com>= Subject: Re: France keeps up pressure on Hewlett-Packard jobs 1 Message-ID: <faOdnS09o-nukKXeRVn-jg@giganews.com>   A "Michael D. Ober" <obermd.@.alum.mit.edu.nospam> wrote in message ) news:XITZe.12$hp6.4889@news.uswest.net... L > Actually, US emissions are lower than almost every country that has signedJ > Kyoto.  This is because our state and local governments have passed lawsD > curbing emissions.  Most of the countries that signed Kyoto are in	 violation  > of the treaty. >  > Mike Ober. >   I Anyplace we could see some facts on this or is it just your opinion about F the state of US envirnmental policy vs the rest of the world's policy?   Dion   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 15:11:48 GMT ( From: Alan Greig <greigaln@netscape.net>= Subject: Re: France keeps up pressure on Hewlett-Packard jobs 7 Message-ID: <UcUZe.55$VI6.48@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>    Michael D. Ober wrote:L > Actually, US emissions are lower than almost every country that has signedJ > Kyoto.  This is because our state and local governments have passed lawsN > curbing emissions.  Most of the countries that signed Kyoto are in violation > of the treaty.  F Could you quote some source info for the claim that "US emissions are 6 lower than almost every country that has signed Kyoto"   --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 09:26:09 -0600 6 From: "Michael D. Ober" <obermd.@.alum.mit.edu.nospam>= Subject: Re: France keeps up pressure on Hewlett-Packard jobs / Message-ID: <mqUZe.13$hp6.5496@news.uswest.net>   L I can't remember where I ran across this.  However, US Federal Environmental4 policy stinks.  It's our states that are doing this.   Mike.   + "Dion" <dion@noreturn.com> wrote in message + news:faOdnS09o-nukKXeRVn-jg@giganews.com...  > C > "Michael D. Ober" <obermd.@.alum.mit.edu.nospam> wrote in message + > news:XITZe.12$hp6.4889@news.uswest.net... G > > Actually, US emissions are lower than almost every country that has  signedL > > Kyoto.  This is because our state and local governments have passed lawsF > > curbing emissions.  Most of the countries that signed Kyoto are in > violation  > > of the treaty. > >  > > Mike Ober. > >  > K > Anyplace we could see some facts on this or is it just your opinion about H > the state of US envirnmental policy vs the rest of the world's policy? >  > Dion >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:45:30 -0700  From: Z <Z@no.spam> = Subject: Re: France keeps up pressure on Hewlett-Packard jobs + Message-ID: <sIUZe.10211$eH2.7698@fe02.lga>    Michael D. Ober wrote:K > Long term - it can't.  Socialism simply goes against millions of years of I > survival instincts.  It works for small (family) groups, but in a large M > group of unrelated people, socialism simply violates all rules of survival.   I To be fair, I have to acknowledge that Socialism is good at leveling the  E playing field ... the only problem is that you end up with an entire  H nation deep in abject poverty, which is even worse than the traditional 4 "income gap" problem that Capitalism tends to spawn.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 16:00:50 GMT - From: Don S <suterdfNoSpam@NoSpamverizon.net> = Subject: Re: France keeps up pressure on Hewlett-Packard jobs * Message-ID: <SWUZe.4238$211.2847@trnddc08>   Z wrote:   > Michael D. Ober wrote: > D >> Long term - it can't.  Socialism simply goes against millions of  >> years of J >> survival instincts.  It works for small (family) groups, but in a largeE >> group of unrelated people, socialism simply violates all rules of   >> survival. >  > G > To be fair, I have to acknowledge that Socialism is good at leveling   > the playing field ...   H Huh?  The peons have to do all the work and pat all the taxes while the C party elite's live in luxury and spend wildly, and this is a level  I playing field.  Any one party system is corrupt before it starts and you   have a lot to understand. !                             Don S   D > the only problem is that you end up with an entire nation deep in H > abject poverty, which is even worse than the traditional "income gap" ) > problem that Capitalism tends to spawn.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 16:04:25 GMT $ From: measekite <inkystinky@oem.com>= Subject: Re: France keeps up pressure on Hewlett-Packard jobs 9 Message-ID: <d_UZe.454$lc1.74@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>    *ON DA FAR SIDE OF FRANCE  DAY DONT WEAR PANTS  BUT DAY DOO WEAR GRASS TO COVER UP DERE ASS*    Adam Russell wrote:   8 >"Michael Johnson, PE" <cds@erols.com> wrote in message , >news:q9CdnX6Fa7NHgareRVn-rA@giganews.com... >    >  >>David J Dachtera wrote:  >>     >> >>>"Michael Johnson, PE" wrote:  >>> 	 >>>        >>>  >>>>David J Dachtera wrote:  >>>> >>>>         >>>> >>>>>[snip] M >>>>>I'm seeing in these threads a perpetuation of the flawed perception that M >>>>>workers everywhere are overpaid, lazy fat-cats, unlike the executives of K >>>>>their employers who live modestly and well within their means, are not J >>>>>paid 30 to 3000 times the salary of their lowest paid hourly workers,J >>>>>and who strive to re-invest profits back into the business and/or payF >>>>>dividends to their investors rather than indulge in luxurious and >>>>>extravagant lifestyles. >>>>>  >>>>>As always, prove me wrong.  >>>>>            >>>>> F >>>>I don't have to prove anything.  Just look at the current state ofD >>>>France's economy.  The proof is already staring you in the face. >>>>         >>>>J >>>Only proves that the model doesn't work. Doesn't identify the cause(s).	 >>>        >>> M >>So we all agree socialism doesn't work?  Hmmm... what was your first clue?  L >>The dismal French economy or the collapse of the Soviet Union? Even China  >>is embracing capitalism. >>     >> > M >Yes, and look at Cuba.  Its been on the brink of collapse for 50 odd years.  M >Soons the old man dies they will embrace capitalism again.  haha that'll be   >great.  >  >  >    >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:11:36 -0400   From: "Dion" <dion@noreturn.com>= Subject: Re: France keeps up pressure on Hewlett-Packard jobs 1 Message-ID: <QqidneJj7M1RgKXeRVn-gw@giganews.com>   A "Michael D. Ober" <obermd.@.alum.mit.edu.nospam> wrote in message ) news:mqUZe.13$hp6.5496@news.uswest.net... @ > I can't remember where I ran across this.  However, US Federal
 Environmental 6 > policy stinks.  It's our states that are doing this. >  > Mike.   K Not only can you not remember where you ran across it but get this.... It's H all a bunch of bullshit. Since our country is controlled by corporationsJ rather then moral people, I susspect profit means more to govertnment thanF our future ecology. US States will only get away with what the FederalI government lets them get away with and since Kyoto was abandoned by Bush, L the writting is on the wall. Fuck the future is written plain as day but you need to open your eyes.    Dion   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 09:50:57 -0700 8 From: "Adam Russell" <adamrussell@sbcglobal.net.invalid>= Subject: Re: France keeps up pressure on Hewlett-Packard jobs + Message-ID: <3pqmomFbr7e7U1@individual.net>   0 "Lurker" <nowhere@nothing.com> wrote in message / news:YgMZe.14378$iM2.1186751@news.xtra.co.nz... E > "Adam Russell" <adamrussell@sbcglobal.net.invalid> wrote in message ' > news:3po11bFbbkqpU1@individual.net...  >>2 >> "Lurker" <nowhere@nothing.com> wrote in message2 >> news:f2uZe.14238$iM2.1177692@news.xtra.co.nz...? >> > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message + >> > news:4335EA9C.8CE7BF4E@teksavvy.com...  >> >A >> >> Live with it. Your population re-elected the war criminals.  >> >@ >> > 1: To declare someone a criminal (let alone a war criminal)1 >> > requires a court and jury - you are neither.  >> >; >> > 2: In fact, the claim you've made is likely to qualify A >> > as an offence itself - libel at least. It's up to the courts  >> > to decide.  >>I >> If Bush feels that it is libel then he has the right to sue for libel.  > You ? >> have *no* standing to make legal complaint on Bush's behalf.  > > > Who said that I do? Certianly not I. But, somehow, JF thinks; > he has the legal standing to pronounce someone a criminal  > all on his own.   L He certainly does have standing to call people names.  Free country and all  that.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 16:47:49 GMT - From: Don S <suterdfNoSpam@NoSpamverizon.net> = Subject: Re: France keeps up pressure on Hewlett-Packard jobs * Message-ID: <VCVZe.9034$TQ3.8010@trnddc05>  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------0101030501030104010403069 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit    Adam Russell wrote:   1 >"Lurker" <nowhere@nothing.com> wrote in message  0 >news:YgMZe.14378$iM2.1186751@news.xtra.co.nz... >    > E >>"Adam Russell" <adamrussell@sbcglobal.net.invalid> wrote in message ' >>news:3po11bFbbkqpU1@individual.net...  >>     >>2 >>>"Lurker" <nowhere@nothing.com> wrote in message2 >>>news:f2uZe.14238$iM2.1177692@news.xtra.co.nz...	 >>>        >>> > >>>>"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message* >>>>news:4335EA9C.8CE7BF4E@teksavvy.com... >>>> >>>>         >>>>@ >>>>>Live with it. Your population re-elected the war criminals. >>>>>            >>>>> ? >>>>1: To declare someone a criminal (let alone a war criminal) 0 >>>>requires a court and jury - you are neither. >>>>: >>>>2: In fact, the claim you've made is likely to qualify@ >>>>as an offence itself - libel at least. It's up to the courts >>>>to decide. >>>>         >>>>I >>>If Bush feels that it is libel then he has the right to sue for libel. 	 >>>        >>>  >>You  >>     >>? >>>have *no* standing to make legal complaint on Bush's behalf. 	 >>>        >>> > >>Who said that I do? Certianly not I. But, somehow, JF thinks; >>he has the legal standing to pronounce someone a criminal  >>all on his own.  >>     >> > M >He certainly does have standing to call people names.  Free country and all   >that.   >  >    > I Free country does not allow you to falsely accuse or to yell "fire" in a  I crowed theater.  There is a thing called liable where you say bad things  C that are not true and you have to pay for that, money or otherwise. %                                 Don S   & --------------010103050103010401040306) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   ? <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">  <html> <head>I   <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">    <title></title>  </head> ' <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">  Adam Russell wrote:<br> @ <blockquote cite="mid3pqmomFbr7e7U1@individual.net" type="cite">   <pre wrap="">"Lurker" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nowhere@nothing.com">&lt;nowhere@nothing.com&gt;</a> wrote in message  <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="news:YgMZe.14378$iM2.1186751@news.xtra.co.nz">news:YgMZe.14378$iM2.1186751@news.xtra.co.nz</a>...   </pre>   <blockquote type="cite">     <pre wrap="">"Adam Russell" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:adamrussell@sbcglobal.net.invalid">&lt;adamrussell@sbcglobal.net.invalid&gt;</a> wrote in message t <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="news:3po11bFbbkqpU1@individual.net">news:3po11bFbbkqpU1@individual.net</a>...
     </pre>     <blockquote type="cite">       <pre wrap="">"Lurker" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nowhere@nothing.com">&lt;nowhere@nothing.com&gt;</a> wrote in message  <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="news:f2uZe.14238$iM2.1177692@news.xtra.co.nz">news:f2uZe.14238$iM2.1177692@news.xtra.co.nz</a>...       </pre>       <blockquote type="cite">         <pre wrap="">"JF Mezei" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com">&lt;jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com&gt;</a> wrote in message v <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="news:4335EA9C.8CE7BF4E@teksavvy.com">news:4335EA9C.8CE7BF4E@teksavvy.com</a>...           </pre>          <blockquote type="cite">R           <pre wrap="">Live with it. Your population re-elected the war criminals.           </pre>         </blockquote> P         <pre wrap="">1: To declare someone a criminal (let alone a war criminal), requires a court and jury - you are neither.  6 2: In fact, the claim you've made is likely to qualify< as an offence itself - libel at least. It's up to the courts
 to decide.         </pre>       </blockquote> Y       <pre wrap="">If Bush feels that it is libel then he has the right to sue for libel.        </pre>     </blockquote>      <pre wrap="">You
     </pre>     <blockquote type="cite">O       <pre wrap="">have *no* standing to make legal complaint on Bush's behalf.        </pre>     </blockquote> M     <pre wrap="">Who said that I do? Certianly not I. But, somehow, JF thinks 9 he has the legal standing to pronounce someone a criminal  all on his own. 
     </pre>   </blockquote>    <pre wrap=""><!---->L He certainly does have standing to call people names.  Free country and all  that.      </pre>
 </blockquote> F Free country does not allow you to falsely accuse or to yell "fire" inH a crowed theater.&nbsp; There is a thing called liable where you say bad? things that are not true and you have to pay for that, money or  otherwise.<br> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Don S </body>  </html>   ( --------------010103050103010401040306--   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Sep 2005 08:15:19 -0700 From: jordan@ccs4vms.com- Subject: Re: HP SWB V1.7.8 consistent crasher C Message-ID: <1127747719.475802.227500@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>    Dave, G      Last time I had to d/l the kit on another system and FTP it to the F Alpha too.  This time I did that only because it was easier so I don'tB know if a d/l using CSWB on the Alpha would have been problematic.  F      Junkmail broke on mine too when 1.7-11 was installed, same way asE it broke when Mozilla 1.7 was released.  Have you had a chance to try G the file deletions, like last time?  You are the one who posted that in G response to my query back then.  I haven't had time to try it on my PWS  yet.  F      Last time, I tried it numerous times, and gave up, but then afterC a few more CSWB startups, the spam marking started to work again; I E never did determine why it suddenly started working, or why it hadn't  the first few times.   Rich   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 20:38:35 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com Y Subject: Re: HP will have to give back 1.25 M EUR help that it got to createjobs. createj - Message-ID: <87y85kf1h0.fsf@prep.synonet.com>    Z <Z@no.spam> writes:   D > Same treatment (no severance) for downsized employees?  Yes or no?  A YES. Severance payment based on length of service only, flat rate  irespective of current pay.    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Sep 2005 01:06:27 -0700 From: mark_hpq@yahoo.com" Subject: HP's strategy explained :B Message-ID: <1127721987.088196.28820@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  R http://www.marketwatch.com/tools/quotes/insiders.asp?symb=hpq&sid=2385&siteid=mktw   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Sep 2005 07:09:38 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) & Subject: Re: HP's strategy explained :3 Message-ID: <ky0ErM6K5i4B@eisner.encompasserve.org>    <cross-posting removed>   ] In article <1127721987.088196.28820@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, mark_hpq@yahoo.com writes: T > http://www.marketwatch.com/tools/quotes/insiders.asp?symb=hpq&sid=2385&siteid=mktw    . Once again, please do not post unadorned URLs.  I I looked at that page and there was just some statistics, no explanation.   F If you think the statistics (in many different areas) prove something,F by all means post your belief in the newsgroup, rather than making allE of us waste our time looking at your URL because of your false belief / that we will see the statistics the way you do.    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Sep 2005 09:24:54 -0700- From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net>  Subject: Re: Kea and VMSC Message-ID: <1127751894.828282.271480@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    contracer11@gmail.com wrote: > Jack Peacock wrote: C > > "David J Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message ) > > news:433352D7.9DF9CA99@comcast.net... " > > > contracer11@gmail.com wrote: > > >>K > > >> I'm using Kea for VAX emulator to access our VAX/VMS system. Can you E > > >> tell me how ( in a procedure) can I get default background and L > > >> foreground color ? I need create a procedure to get default FG and BG > > >> KEA's color.  > > > L > > > Not quite sure what you're up to there since screen colors in terminalH > > > programs tend to be a matter of personal preference, due mostly to& > > > biological and ergonomic issues. > > > M > > I assume the original poster is looking for an ESC sequence to return the M > > current color settings.  I just checked the KEA VT420 (v5.10) ESC strings G > > for Terminal Reports, doesn't appear to be one that retrieves color P > > settings.  Since the VT420 didn't support color I wouldn't expect a terminalG > > reports for it.   Was there a VT240/340 terminal reports string for  > > retrieving colors? > >   Jack Peacock >  > C > Exactly, I need KEA sequence to get current color settings, but I  > didn't > find it in KEA manuals...  > Thanks to all...    B IIRC, the "colors" in KEA!420 are assigned locally to various ANSI@ attributes, i.e. text & background for bold, reverse, underline, reverse-bold, blink, etc.   E It's been awhile since I've used KEA, but I never found an escape-seq + query that returned this color information.    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Sep 2005 12:08:18 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Kea and VMS3 Message-ID: <QHuHSYes4Ddm@eisner.encompasserve.org>   s In article <1127751894.828282.271480@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> writes:  >  > D > IIRC, the "colors" in KEA!420 are assigned locally to various ANSIB > attributes, i.e. text & background for bold, reverse, underline, > reverse-bold, blink, etc.   B    Some VT's also do colors.  I wonder which the OP really wanted.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:28:58 GMT 3 From: Vance Haemmerle <vance@toyvax.Glendale.CA.US> ? Subject: Re: New SWB (Mozilla) browser version 1.7.11 available 9 Message-ID: <ejOZe.135$sL3.42@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>    jordan@ccs4vms.com wrote: ? > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/cswb/cswb.html  > @ > Alpha and I64.  Appears to be mostly security related updates. >   D    I guess HP isn't contributing non-branded versions to mozilla.org? anymore.  The last was 1.7.  They've only had CSWB versions for  1.7.8 and 1.7.11.    -- Vance Haemmerle    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Sep 2005 07:56:12 -0700 From: jordan@ccs4vms.comM Subject: Re: New SWB (Mozilla) browser version 1.7.11, spam filtering problem C Message-ID: <1127746572.778735.111210@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Vance Haemmerle wrote: > jordan@ccs4vms.com wrote: A > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/cswb/cswb.html  > > B > > Alpha and I64.  Appears to be mostly security related updates. > >  > F >    I guess HP isn't contributing non-branded versions to mozilla.orgA > anymore.  The last was 1.7.  They've only had CSWB versions for  > 1.7.8 and 1.7.11.  >  > -- > Vance Haemmerle   D It also appears that 1.7-11 has done something to the spam filteringG code again; when I upgraded to Mozilla 1.7, spam filtering continued to G work but you could no longer train the filters, or change the status of < a message to/from junk.  That continued with V1.7-8, but wasF correctable by blowing away the training database and another file andG starting over with training.  Now that 1.7-11 is installed, the problem ? has returned.   Inbound messages are checked and marked against E existing training data, but I can't do anything spam related with the $ messages once they've been received.  G No time to do the file deletions and retrain so far, I hope that method F still works with this new version.  Files involved were TRAINING.DAT;*5 and PANACEA.DAT in the top level profile subdirectory E (DDCU:[USER._MOZILLA.DEFAULT.XYZYXYZ9_ZYX], profile directory changed  to protect the innocent).    Rich   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 07:02:22 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 5 Subject: Re: Quo vadis Galaxy or VMS (a bit rambling) 0 Message-ID: <11jfkvjam66a811@corp.supernews.com>   Glenn Everhart wrote:   ? >   Is the vision of the future still Galaxy? Is anyone asking?    Is anyone listening?   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 10:32:57 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> 5 Subject: RE: Quo vadis Galaxy or VMS (a bit rambling) R Message-ID: <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB70BE7A@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----3 > From: Glenn Everhart [mailto:Everhart@gce.com]=20 " > Sent: September 25, 2005 7:41 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 3 > Subject: Quo vadis Galaxy or VMS (a bit rambling)  >=20B > When Galaxy was thought of, the idea was that it was/is where=20 > the future of 9 > computing needs to go. Now granted, the focus was on=20  > enterprise problems = > that require large scale computing with hefty guarantees=20  > about data safety,A > security, and high throughput. There are many apps (and some=20  > of what I have@ > worked with lately in concept will add to them) where these=20 > characteristics  > have been needed.  >=20: > However the Marvel boards have been announced (though=20 > enumbrated by the @ > planned termination of Alpha) and much effort has gone into=20 > moving VMS to ? > IA64, which certainly is not the Evident Next Big Thing In=20  > Computing (at least " > not yet, if it ever becomes so). >=20B > I wonder if Galaxy is still seen as where future systems will=20
 > need to be?  >=20B > If not there are a few things I could imagine as interesting,=20 > though probably 2 > not possible and most likely good for a laugh... >=20A > Things like deciding that the next big architecture may come=20  > from the game console 9 > space (sort of a karmic reincarnation of Amiga?) and=20  > designing a descendant, with3 > VMS ancestry and culture, for such architectures?  >=20: > If Microsoft is serious about rebuilding its internal=20 > architecture, they may@ > sometime take a look at all the calls layered on top of the=20 > NT kernel which > > pass null terminated buffers with nary a size and all the=20 > assumptions around? > everything being able to call everything else willy-nilly,=20  > and decide that B > they could just buy rights to VMS and see who'd be interested=20
 > in building @ > not Windows, nor VMS, but a successor to both that would be=20 > driven this time= > by VMS people to get the OS right, yet provide something=20  > close enough to the < > old APIs of both that recompilation would not always be=20 > needed. I'd prefer to ; > see HP buying Windows for this (or having it belatedly=20  > declared to have been H > HP property all along) but am not good at imagining bobcats that could > swallow a rhinoceros.  >=20@ > Galaxy has some scaling properties I still really like, and=20 > the VMS layeringG > is such that some of what Microsoft has been speaking of looks pretty > > straightforward. For example, if you wanted to put a DBMS=20 > query language into @ > VMS filesystems, an optional layer that sat between RMS and=20 > the XQP which A > would recognize some special quoting characters in directory=20  > names as queries= > rather than names could be concocted to do DBMS searches=20  > instead of directoryB > lookups, filling in the database with filenames and file IDs,=20 > but also with A > whatever else was convenient. It looked to me some years ago=20  > like maybe a one@ > man year job to get it working on a single node (servable);=20 > some more time to ; > solve cluster problems. The clustering issues might be=20  > difficult, but such a > > thing would be useful even while it ran only on one node.=20 > Point is that the B > VMS design is layered cleanly enough (and is probably cleaner=20 > now than it was then) B > that functional add-ins could be tried in such a way, without=20 > taxing the > entire system with them.: >    The way Galaxy can move processors to load is also=20 > impressive, esp. the more B > extreme flavors of that design. I thought that telling people=20 > they can buy, B > say, 10 processors to do the work of 15 was a weak sell given=20 > price drops, but? > having a box that can put 100 processors to work on a very=20  > parallel problem@ > one second and move them to 30 or 40 less parallel problems=20 > the next second ; > is really impressive. You can buy 50% extra processors=20  > easily, but scaling 7 > by orders of magnitude in real time, and making it=20 " > unnecessary for humans to figure0 > out how this should be done, can be a Godsend. >=20@ >    Is the vision of the future still Galaxy? Is anyone asking? >=20 > Glenn Everhart >=20   Glenn,  F While I am certainly *not* talking in any type of official capacity, IF can provide some general insight into Galaxy and why customers are nowE looking much more today into similar virtualization technologies than . they were when Galaxy was first introduced.=20  E First - OpenVMS Galaxy virtualization really was ahead of its time in > terms of "non-mainframe" server technologies and being able to7 dynamically share CPU's between different OS instances.   F However, partitioning in general is not something new as the mainframeA folks had this capability 20 years ago. What is new is that these D technologies are now being introduced into the non-mainframe market.   Why?  ? Simple - the coyote ugly problem is that the average server cpu F utilization during peak business periods of most Cust systems today is@ 10-20% (Windows) and 15-30% (UNIX). So, while these systems wereH typically  justified using latest and greatest benchmarks and latest andF greatest competitive speeds-n-feeds, the reality facing most CustomersA today is that these systems are, for the most part, grossly under 	 utilized.   H The culprit is the one-app, many servers (dev, QA/test, prod) model thatG has sprung up over the last 10 years. When servers are refreshed, it is @ typically one-for-one and hence over the years the cpu speed hasF increased dramatically, but the workloads have remained relatively theD same. Hence, the % utilization of each workload as a % of the serverD capability has been shrinking. This low utilization will continue toB shrink unless a different model that the one-app, one server model" (including refresh) is changed.=20  H This is why server consolidation, virtualization and workload managementD are so hot with most med-large Customer environments today. Their ITH budgets are decreasing, their services requirements increasing and theirH head counts are being reduced (or at least not being increased to handle new service requests).  @ Now, there are two primary types of virtualization - Application Stacking and OS Stacking.   D 1. Application stacking is the best financial and technical solution because it: G - reduces OS instances and number of OS instances is tied to FTE counts 9 which is by far the biggest IT expense in most companies. 1 - reduces HW requirements of many smaller servers  - small overhead - improves overall utilizationH - with OpenVMS, HP-UX and some other UNIX's, you can dynamically migrateG CPU's between different OS instances as the load changes. With OpenVMS, F these CPU's can be migrated between OS instances dynamically (based on< business rules), manually (drag-n-drop) or even time-of-day.  B The down side to application stacking on Windows and to a bit of aG lesser extent, many UNIX systems, is that the culture is very averse to ( sharing resources on the same system.=20  G "What, share my application with that other dept system? No way in hell  will that happen.."   E In addition, in the case of Windows and Linux, the OS's really do not ? have the technical maturity yet to natively support application 	 stacking.   G 2. OS stacking is the next best thing, and because of the technical and F political challenges, is the reason why it is becoming so popular with Windows/Linux:1 - reduces HW requirements of many smaller servers  - improves overall utilization# - politically "easier" to implement H - does *not* reduce OS instances, so does not impact FTE counts and willH also add some additional costs in terms of server overhead and licensing
 (e.g. VMware) C - does not allow one to dynamically move CPU's between different OS 	 instances   D So, in summary, making much better use of server resources is a veryA high priority for most med-large Cust's today. IT shops are under F extreme pressures to reduce costs and while OS stacking will gain someF benefits, if the political issues of "one-app, many servers" model can@ be overcome, then even more cost reductions can be obtained withG application stacking using virtualization (e.g.  Galaxy, vPars etc) and 9 various workload management (class scheduler) strategies.    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:56:10 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> , Subject: Re: Remote X Session to PC thru SSH( Message-ID: <opsxpvvwmvzgicya@hyrrokkin>  H On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:35:21 +0100, issinoho <issinoho@gmail.com> wrote:  G > Apologies if this is old news but I tried this today as a "I wonder    > if..."5 > exercise, and lo-and-behold it worked like a charm.  > H > Alpha sitting at home behind firewall, port-forwarding SSH; PC at work > behind corporate firewall.K > Fired up eXcursion on PC at work, then started PuTTY & set X11 forwarding $ > 'on' and SSH'd into Alpha at home.J > Typed 'mcr decw$clock' in PuTTY session and ... XClock appears on work   > PC. 	 > Lovely.  > I > Not only that but all the X applications work seamlessly and very, very  > quickly - even Mozilla.  > L > No need for complex 'set display' commands, no need to open X11 ports on   > any & > firewalls, just SSH and away you go. >  >   K Just installed TCPIP5.4 on 7.3-1 and tried your experiment using PuTTY 0.58 " with X-Forwarding enabled, and ...     ODIN> mcr decw$clock# X Toolkit Error: Can't Open display % %DWT-F-NOMSG, Message number 03AB8204    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 10:14:31 -0400 4 From: "Doug Kimball" <dougkimball@spammydavisjr.net>6 Subject: Sites needed to run TAPESYS V6.2.0 on itanium0 Message-ID: <11jg0j2k15bmc07@corp.supernews.com>  M We are looking for itanium sites to actively run our new version of TAPESYS,  E V6.2.0. We will make you an offer you can't refuse. Call or email me.    --   Doug Kimball Manager, Sales and Support Software Partners, Inc.  978-887-6409" dougk at softwarepartners dot com    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Sep 2005 03:27:45 -0700/ From: "Shahin Yaz" <Shahinyaz@blueyonder.co.uk> ! Subject: SWXCR RAID Configuration C Message-ID: <1127730465.211378.284160@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   D I have an Alpha 2100 with a SWXCR RAID controller, but have not beenB able to find any documentation on how to use the config utlity. IsF there any useful documentation / notes out there ? What is the process? for changing a failing disk ? Is it just a matter of physically D replacing it with a working one while the system is on-line ? and noF other soft steps ?  Is it possible to have a spare disk installed thatF the system will switch to automatically in the event of failure on one of the working set ?  ' Thanks in advance for any help on this.    Regards    Shahin   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Sep 2005 08:28:48 -0700 From: bill@wcschmidt.com% Subject: Re: SWXCR RAID Configuration C Message-ID: <1127748528.044354.104890@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   D There are 2 sets of interface software for SWXCR one is PC based ( IF haven't seen it running for while. The other is on a floppy and can be" used only when the system is down.  E If the failing disk is a member of a raid5 you can swap out the drive F and it should be picked up and used, the sofware also allows for spare4 sets to be setup when the controller was configured.  B You may need to go looking for the software it was on a 3 1/2 inchE floppy, the last time I tried to build it from HP software it did not G work, and we had to call in a few favors to borrow it from an alternate  site.    Shahin Yaz wrote: F > I have an Alpha 2100 with a SWXCR RAID controller, but have not beenD > able to find any documentation on how to use the config utlity. IsH > there any useful documentation / notes out there ? What is the processA > for changing a failing disk ? Is it just a matter of physically F > replacing it with a working one while the system is on-line ? and noH > other soft steps ?  Is it possible to have a spare disk installed thatH > the system will switch to automatically in the event of failure on one > of the working set ? > ) > Thanks in advance for any help on this.  > 	 > Regards  >  > Shahin   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Sep 2005 09:06:30 -0700- From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> L Subject: Re: Tentative DCL suggestion: string return value from .COM (Hello,C Message-ID: <1127750790.742429.309530@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    David J Dachtera wrote:  > Doug Phillips wrote: > >  > > David J Dachtera wrote:  > > > J > > > I'm still trying to figure out how get the value of both $STATUS and: > > > $STATUS_STRING without changing either value. Maybe: > > >  > > > $ set noon
 > > > $ @proc 1 > > > $ stats = "''$status'""''$status_string'"""  > > > E > > > ...to get them both at once, and then parse out he result using  > > > F$ELEMENT(). > > > . > > > Again, to me, seems the long way around. > > E > > I read the OP to mean that $status_string is only to be set by an H > > *explicit* $EXIT and, unlike $status, wouldn't change until the next# > > $EXIT. I can see uses for that.  > 6 > ...as can I; however, that creates an inconsistency,    F I see what you're saying. Still, once it's documented it would then be4 consistent (as so many here are quick to point out).   > and the value ofG > $STATUS_STRING would never be reliable: was it's current value set by I > the previous proc.? ... or did that that one bomb out and leave a value  > from a prior proc.?  >   E I guess you'd have to clear $STATUS_STRING prior to calling the proc, G and clear it after saving it's value --- just to be sure. Hmmmm. Sounds B like how I use logicals or global symbols now for this, so the new1 $EXIT parameter would only save one line of code.   C If, as someone else mentioned, the value would pass through a PIPE, : then that might make the implementation effort worthwhile.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 13:36:00 +0200  From: S <soterroatyahoodotcom>+ Subject: Re: Translating VAX ts to Macro-32 & Message-ID: <4337dd15$1@news1.ethz.ch>  
 Art wrote: > I have tried using my VAX toI > link the objects into an executable that I could translate only to find I > that there are too many name conflicts between the object libraries and 9 > the system RTLs to build a viable shareable executable.   G It might be a silly idea, but haven't you considered installing an old  G VAX-VMS version (contemporary to your objects) on that VAX then try to   link it there?   S    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:48:43 -0400 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>+ Subject: Re: Translating VAX ts to Macro-32 / Message-ID: <4337B5EB.16569.13E40AC8@localhost>     > > I have tried using my VAX toF > > link the objects into an executable that I could translate only toB > > find that there are too many name conflicts between the object= > > libraries and the system RTLs to build a viable shareable  > > executable.  > H > It might be a silly idea, but haven't you considered installing an oldH > VAX-VMS version (contemporary to your objects) on that VAX then try to > link it there?  < Good idea.  Even the newest version of VEST can't translate F executables from VMS V7.  You need to go back a ways in versions when 	 you link.   C Actually, with a few logical names and a copy of old system RTL's,  B you can make an RTL that will work.  I routinely link back to VAX , V5.5, and can link back to V4.7, if need be.  4 Contact me directly, and I can help you with this...  
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  +1 614-868-1363 3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA 0 stan-at-stanq-dot-com       http://www.stanq.com) "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option"    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Sep 2005 09:11:55 -0700 From: bob@jfcl.com6 Subject: VAX 8350/8200 - Lights on, but nobody home...C Message-ID: <1127751115.909740.205000@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   G I received a VAX8350 in "junk" condition - this machine was stripped by E a DEC reseller for parts before I got it, so it is missing a few bits B and pieces here and there..  Still, it's one of the smallest VAXBIG machines made, and an SMP machine at that, so it's worth some effort to 
 resurrect it.   B I've got it to where it'll at least power up now and turn on a fewD LEDs, but it's still pretty unresponsive.  With the upper key set toB "STANDBY" and the lower key set to "HALT", the STANDBY (RED), HALTC (YELLOW) and FAULT (RED) LEDs are on.  Under the top cover, the ILV F (GREEN - what's "ILV" mean, anyway?), H7251 (RED) and H7253 (RED) LEDs are on.   D According to the operator's manual (which is all I have) the "FAULT"C LED only goes off after the diagnostics complete, so it's not clear 1 whether that indicates a problem in standby mode.   B Taking a deep breath and switching to "ENABLE" makes the H7251 andD H7253 LEDs go off; the RED LED on the CPU card turns on, but not theC yellow.  The yellow LEDs on all the memory cards are ON, and on the @ front panel the STANDBY LED goes off and the ENABLE LED goes on.  @ Other than some LEDs, though, there's no sign of life.  It neverF attempts to access the RX50, and it never says anything on the console' terminal.  At least there's no smoke...   G   I'm assuming that the CFE (console front end board) should at minimum > wake up and do something now, even if nothing else is working.  F   Is there any recommended place to probe the power supply voltages toF see if that's OK?  It's not obvious, since the darned thing won't evenD run with the cover off (the airflow sensor shuts it down).  Or is my	 CFE dead?   4   Anybody got any maintenance prints for this thing?  G   BTW, I call it an 8350/8200 because the reseller stripped all the CPU D cards before I got it.  I managed to find a KA820 card and installedG that, which should in theory make it an 8200.  This might cause me some @ problems down the road, but I'm assuming it's not the issue now.   Thanks, 
 Bob Armstrong    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 19:29:50 +0200 & From: "H Vlems" <nospam@what.ever.com>: Subject: Re: VAX 8350/8200 - Lights on, but nobody home...; Message-ID: <5997$433830cb$513b9a2c$11373@news.versatel.nl>   ! <bob@jfcl.com> schreef in bericht = news:1127751115.909740.205000@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... I > I received a VAX8350 in "junk" condition - this machine was stripped by G > a DEC reseller for parts before I got it, so it is missing a few bits D > and pieces here and there..  Still, it's one of the smallest VAXBII > machines made, and an SMP machine at that, so it's worth some effort to  > resurrect it.  > D > I've got it to where it'll at least power up now and turn on a fewF > LEDs, but it's still pretty unresponsive.  With the upper key set toD > "STANDBY" and the lower key set to "HALT", the STANDBY (RED), HALTE > (YELLOW) and FAULT (RED) LEDs are on.  Under the top cover, the ILV H > (GREEN - what's "ILV" mean, anyway?), H7251 (RED) and H7253 (RED) LEDs	 > are on.  > F > According to the operator's manual (which is all I have) the "FAULT"E > LED only goes off after the diagnostics complete, so it's not clear 3 > whether that indicates a problem in standby mode.  > D > Taking a deep breath and switching to "ENABLE" makes the H7251 andF > H7253 LEDs go off; the RED LED on the CPU card turns on, but not theE > yellow.  The yellow LEDs on all the memory cards are ON, and on the B > front panel the STANDBY LED goes off and the ENABLE LED goes on. > B > Other than some LEDs, though, there's no sign of life.  It neverH > attempts to access the RX50, and it never says anything on the console) > terminal.  At least there's no smoke...  > I >   I'm assuming that the CFE (console front end board) should at minimum @ > wake up and do something now, even if nothing else is working. > H >   Is there any recommended place to probe the power supply voltages toH > see if that's OK?  It's not obvious, since the darned thing won't evenF > run with the cover off (the airflow sensor shuts it down).  Or is my > CFE dead?  > 6 >   Anybody got any maintenance prints for this thing? > I >   BTW, I call it an 8350/8200 because the reseller stripped all the CPU F > cards before I got it.  I managed to find a KA820 card and installedI > that, which should in theory make it an 8200.  This might cause me some B > problems down the road, but I'm assuming it's not the issue now. > 	 > Thanks,  > Bob Armstrong  >  Bob,  I there is a small chance that I'm able to recover an 8350 operator manual.  It's been too long to $ remember how the thing was operated.H Do you have the wide cabinet: same size as an 11/750 or the narrow (19") one?J AFAIK the 82x0 series had a BI bus that either took an 8200 or an 8300 cpu board.K IIRC the CPU sat at one end (high numbered slot) and the memory adjacent to  it.    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Sep 2005 10:43:16 -0700 From: bob@jfcl.com: Subject: Re: VAX 8350/8200 - Lights on, but nobody home...B Message-ID: <1127756596.629574.13830@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  I >there is a small chance that I'm able to recover an 8350 operator manual   @   Thanks for the offer, but I have a PDF of the "VAX 8000 SeriesA Operators Manual" - if that's what you have then I don't need it. G Unfortunately it's a little skimpy on anything that involves taking the  machine apart!  F   The machine's in a 19" rack cabinet.  The chassis itself is the same0 size as a BA11 UNIBUS box or a VAX-11/730 CPU.     Bob    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Sep 2005 10:43:59 -0700 From: bob@jfcl.com: Subject: Re: VAX 8350/8200 - Lights on, but nobody home...C Message-ID: <1127756639.308179.255960@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   I >there is a small chance that I'm able to recover an 8350 operator manual   @   Thanks for the offer, but I have a PDF of the "VAX 8000 SeriesA Operators Manual" - if that's what you have then I don't need it. G Unfortunately it's a little skimpy on anything that involves taking the  machine apart!  F   The machine's in a 19" rack cabinet.  The chassis itself is the same0 size as a BA11 UNIBUS box or a VAX-11/730 CPU.     Bob    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 20:51:44 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com . Subject: Re: VAX Sysgen Parameter - SCSRESPCNT- Message-ID: <87u0g8f0v3.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   ) "syslost" <wm.reynolds@gmail.com> writes:   1 > 5 node VAX 7000, VMS6.2, cluster over CI/NISCS.    ...   D >        SCSRESPCNT is the total number of response descriptor tableD                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  6 > What is an RDT stall count?  ! How can I monitor it?  C There is no free RDT entry available when needed, so the request is  stalled untill one is freed.  ? SHOW CUSTER/CONT somewhere... It's not in the AMDS SCS display.    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 14:00:07 +0100 L From: Aidan Karley <doIlookDAFTenoughTOpost@validEMAILaddressTOa.NEWS.group>< Subject: Re: VAX8350 Power Supply (H7251/H7253) problems....B Message-ID: <VA.00000940.270093d0@validemailaddresstoa.news.group>  D In article <1127702708.807071.74640@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,   wrote:F > Measuring the AC current with a clamp on ammeter shows only about 2AF > - hardly anything to get excited about.  Needless to say, there's no2 > smoke, fire, or other obvious signs of distress. > G        I've repeatedly seen circuit breakers that get more "sensitive"  B once they;ve been tripped a few times. Particularly RCCDs ("earth 3 leakage" breakers). Don't know if this is relevant. I        With your clamp-on ammeter, can you "break out" the various lines  > in and out of your breaker to see what's passing on each one.          F > And I also notice that for the short time it is running that the fanH > speed keeps changing; fast, slow, fast, slow, etc....  Is this normal? > F        Doesn't sound good at all. Sounds like a bearing that's on the F verge of seizing. That's good territory for producing short spikes of ( high current drain. Investigate further!   --    Aidan Karley,  Aberdeen, Scotland,@  Location: +5710' ,  -0209'  (sub-tropical Aberdeen), 0.021233(  Written at Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:29 +0100   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 21:18:14 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com < Subject: Re: VAX8350 Power Supply (H7251/H7253) problems....- Message-ID: <87ll1kezmx.fsf@prep.synonet.com>    bob@jfcl.com writes:  A >   I can't help but notice that the breaker in question has some F > suspicious extra wires on it; is this some kind of electromechanicalC > trip that's intended to trip the breaker in case of ... Overtemp? ( > Airflow failure?  Something like that?  
 Both of them.   D >   And I also notice that for the short time it is running that theD > fan speed keeps changing; fast, slow, fast, slow, etc....  Is this	 > normal?   < From memory, it shold be fast, then slow unless it gets hot.  C The 30 second delay is about right ofr an airflow sensor shut down. 7 (Don't ask how I know...) You DO have the top cover on?    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Sep 2005 08:53:57 -0700 From: bob@jfcl.com< Subject: Re: VAX8350 Power Supply (H7251/H7253) problems....C Message-ID: <1127750036.992227.240690@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   5 >An 8350, sigh, you're running VMS V5.0 on it, right?   D   Ha - I wish!  I didn't get any disks with it, although I do have aD KDB50 so if I can coax some life out of the machine there exists theD possibility that I might someday be able to install VMS.  I've got a3 few RA8x drives around, so that won't be a problem.   E   If I do I'll probably use some flavor of VMS 5.x.  Do you recommend  something else?    Bob    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 13:19:27 -0400 2 From: Bob Willard <BobwBSGS@TrashThis.comcast.net>< Subject: Re: VAX8350 Power Supply (H7251/H7253) problems....0 Message-ID: <RKqdnc5TdMwCsKXeRVn-ow@comcast.com>   bob@jfcl.com wrote: 6 >>An 8350, sigh, you're running VMS V5.0 on it, right? >  > F >   Ha - I wish!  I didn't get any disks with it, although I do have aF > KDB50 so if I can coax some life out of the machine there exists theF > possibility that I might someday be able to install VMS.  I've got a5 > few RA8x drives around, so that won't be a problem.  > G >   If I do I'll probably use some flavor of VMS 5.x.  Do you recommend  > something else?  >  > Bob  >   I VMS v5.0 was the beginning of SMP support; VMS v4.x only had AMP support. A IIRC, the 8200/8300 needed v4.7 -- good enough for AMP on a 8300. , Given a choice, I'd go with v5.x to get SMP. --   Cheers, Bob    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 19:13:52 +0200 & From: "H Vlems" <nospam@what.ever.com>< Subject: Re: VAX8350 Power Supply (H7251/H7253) problems....; Message-ID: <b4a12$43382d0c$513b9a2c$5475@news.versatel.nl>   ! <bob@jfcl.com> schreef in bericht = news:1127750036.992227.240690@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... 7 > >An 8350, sigh, you're running VMS V5.0 on it, right?  > F >   Ha - I wish!  I didn't get any disks with it, although I do have aF > KDB50 so if I can coax some life out of the machine there exists theF > possibility that I might someday be able to install VMS.  I've got a5 > few RA8x drives around, so that won't be a problem.  > G >   If I do I'll probably use some flavor of VMS 5.x.  Do you recommend  > something else?  >  > Bob  > I A VMS version that supports multiprocessing obviously... There was latent  support in V4.7 and L possibly in V4.6 as well. We bought a dual 8350 cluster with two HSC50's and
 4 RA82's. The I 4th RA82 lived in the lower bay of a TU81 tape drive. Neat little cluster " with a remarkable up time history.L The only reason it didn't make 1000 days is that the UPS installation inside! the factory required maintenance. L The VAXcluster was shutdown. The systems were bought outside the regular DEC sales channel. The systems? arrived nearly complete. What was missing was the TK50 with the ( multiprocessing "enhancement". Promises,I promises from the vendor but the tape never arrived. After 6 months or so   VMS V5.0 arrived and suddenly weI had a lot more cpu power for our users. Multiprocessing in V5.0 is better $ than what was offered in earlier VMSK releases because those earlier releases were not "symmetrical": the primary  cpu handled all IO traffic.  So I'd recommend VMS V5.0.L The bad news is that I don't have V5.0, but I do have V6.1 and that may just$ be old enough to make it interesting to you.    Hans   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Sep 2005 09:12:48 -07002 From: "vaxorcist" <hoelscher-kirchbrak@freenet.de>* Subject: VMS 4.6/4.7 Local Area VAXclusterC Message-ID: <1127751168.327163.214830@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>   ? I intend to build a VMS V4.6/4.7 Local Area VAXcluster for pure  Hobbyist reasons.   G I've got VMS V4.6 and V4.7 and the DECnet F/F License Key, but the LAVC A License Key (or was it called 'Cluster License Key'?) is missing.   # Anyone out there who has got one???   E Another possiblity would be if someone had a Backup of a V4.6 or V4.7 C LAVC VMS System. As far as I know all I would need from that is the F file: SYS$SYSTEM:PEDRIVER.EXE (Systems without the LAVC license key do& only have SYS$SYSTEM:PEDRIVER.MSKEXE).  B Thank in advance to anyone who can help or knows someone else that might help.    Ulli (The 'VAXorcist')    P.S.D To those who never saw a VMS V4.x system: There's no such thing as aE LMF License Facilty, but some important file are patched or encrypted  for reduced functionalty.    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Sep 2005 08:37:37 -0700 From: bill@wcschmidt.com0 Subject: Re: VMS consultants/experts please readB Message-ID: <1127749057.432842.28330@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  B Bill Schmidt here, I have been doing OpenVMS consulting for a long while.F  I do not have a resume in PDF format, but please visit my web site at0 wcschmidt.com, or email me at bill@wcschmidt.com     Thanks   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.538 ************************