1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 30 Sep 2005	Volume 2005 : Issue 546       Contents: CREATE file  Re: CREATE file  Re: CREATE file ) Re: DISCONNECT a process other than mine?  Drawlib not loaded Re: Drawlib not loaded Re: HP's strategy explained :  Re: Multiple X servers?  Re: Multiple X servers?  Re: Multiple X servers?  Re: Multiple X servers? / Re: OT: Military killer dolphins on the loose !  Re: Pete My Boy...yer a Genius Quotation marks  Re: Quotation marks  Re: Quotation marks  Re: Quotation marks  Re: Quotation marks ( Re: Thought you would enjoy this posting( Re: Thought you would enjoy this posting( Re: Thought you would enjoy this posting Re: Time to produce EV79s! Re: Vamp Hacked! Re: Vamp Hacked! Re: Vamp Hacked! Re: Vamp Hacked! Re: Vamp Hacked! Re: Vamp Hacked! Re: Vamp Hacked! Re: Vamp Hacked! VMS on the |nquirer 6 RE: Why did VMS users go along with the itanium farce?6 Re: Why did VMS users go along with the itanium farce?6 Re: Why did VMS users go along with the itanium farce?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:33:32 -0700 # From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  Subject: CREATE file( Message-ID: <opsxxb960bzgicya@hyrrokkin>  6 Occasionally we will receive a code fragment by email,3 which is read on a W2K box.  It would be convenient 7 to cut and paste into a window running Putty and logged  in to a VMS box.  5 Now, I can cut and paste from the same window or from 7 another PuTTY window logged into anothe VMS without any 4 problems, but if I try to do so it causes a problem.  6 For example, if I cut and paste the first paragraph to) a PuTTY window logged in to VMS via SSH :      HAFNER> create scratch6 Occasionally we will receive a code fragment by email,3 which is read on a W2K box.  It would be convenient  to cut and paste into a wi- %CREATE-E-READERR, error reading SYS$INPUT:.;  -RMS-F-RER, file read error " -SYSTEM-W-DATAOVERUN, data overrun    2 which means that it is expecting 132 char records?  2 I tried $ SET TERM/WIDTH=511/WRAP  but same result   What to do?    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2005 12:24:42 -0500B From: clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP (Simon Clubley) Subject: Re: CREATE file3 Message-ID: <UibXQQH4KxWC@eisner.encompasserve.org>   N In article <opsxxb960bzgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: >  > HAFNER> create scratch8 > Occasionally we will receive a code fragment by email,5 > which is read on a W2K box.  It would be convenient  > to cut and paste into a wi/ > %CREATE-E-READERR, error reading SYS$INPUT:.;  > -RMS-F-RER, file read error $ > -SYSTEM-W-DATAOVERUN, data overrun > 4 > I tried $ SET TERM/WIDTH=511/WRAP  but same result > 
 > What to do?    Try:   	$ set term/hostsync   Simon.   --  B Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP       7 Microsoft: The Standard Oil Company of the 21st century    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 18:15:26 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)  Subject: Re: CREATE file3 Message-ID: <2hf%e.13581$o13.8320@news.cpqcorp.net>   N In article <opsxxb960bzgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes:  G   Something somewhere within the cut-and-paste is apparently eating the E   line endings, or there are no line endings within same.  Obviously.   G   Some of the mail servers I've seen use run-on lines in mail messages. I   (I haven't checked if this is legal within the RFCs, but I do know that F   various SMTP servers do have line length limits -- I don't know what5   the SMTP line length limits are, if any are cited.)   I   Try this using the VTstar terminal emulator available off the Freeware, H   as a test of Putty, then try this with a non-SSH session or similar --H   look to see if this is something in the user interface, within the SSHG   implementation, in the terminal emulator, or in the processing of the    command itself.   F   Also try saving the message from the particular mail client out into!   one of the MS-DOS line formats.   G   I'd also try forwarding the message from the Windows 2000 mail client I   over to the OpenVMS box, and I'd try a few different mail clients, too.     N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2005 11:13:17 -05002 From: kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow)2 Subject: Re: DISCONNECT a process other than mine?3 Message-ID: <Z5ybErFes1RH@eisner.encompasserve.org>   h In article <EVyNY+mppL9T@eisner.encompasserve.org>, kaplow_r@encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) writes:K > How can I force an interactive session on my system into a "disconnected"  > state?  K For others that were interested, I eventually got to someone in the CSC who K figured out how to do this. Here's what we did (the names ahve been changed B to protect the innocent!), and what you see on the terminal you're disconnecting.     ALPHA sho user /full JohnDoe 7       OpenVMS User Processes at 30-SEP-2005 13:05:33.78 7     Total number of users = 1,  number of processes = 1   -  Username Process Name       PID     Terminal 6  JohnDoe  ForceDisconnect  0001B7AE  VTA1001: TNA1003:H                                    (Host: windoze.domain.com Port: 1195)
 ALPHA tcpip  " TCPIP> sho host windoze.domain.com ... $ 192.168.19.34     windoze.domain.com TCPIP> sho dev=                             Port                       Remote < Device_socket  Type    Local  Remote  Service           Host ... D   bg1789      STREAM      23    2790  TELNET           192.168.19.34 ...  TCPIP> disc dev bg1789
 TCPIP>  Exit   ALPHA sho user/full JohnDoe7       OpenVMS User Processes at 30-SEP-2005 13:13:19.51 7     Total number of users = 1,  number of processes = 2   -  Username Process Name       PID     Terminal <  JohnDoe  ForceDisconnect  0001B7AE  VTA1001: (disconnected)    E ---------------------------------------------------------------------  [JohnDoe's terminal session]   $   ) <Your 'TELNET' connection has terminated>    ALPHA - VMS 7.3-2    Username: JohnDoe 
 Password: 0     You have the following disconnected process:% Terminal   Process name    Image name  VTA1001:   ForceDisconnect' Connect to above listed process [YES]:    Connecting to terminal _VTA1001: TCPIP>     --  O   Bob Kaplow   NAR # 18L   >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<< E Kaplow Klips & Baffle:	http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf L     www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/    www.nira-rocketry.org    www.nar.org  K         "For as adamant as my country has been about civil liberties during I         peacetime, it has a long history ... of failing to preserve civil J         liberties when it perceived its national security threatened." -- 4         former Supreme Court Justice William Brennan   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 12:54:37 +0000 (UTC) < From: gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens (Christoph Gartmann) Subject: Drawlib not loaded ) Message-ID: <dhjcid$1pg$1@news.BelWue.DE>    Hello,  7 in DECW$SERVER_0_ERROR.LOG I found the following lines: &    tm_device_init: Drawlib not loaded.*    PexExtensionInit: DD_DEVICE_INIT failed$    glScreenInit: Drawlib not loaded.'    GLExtensionInit: glScreenInit failed N The windows environment is working, no problem so far. But I wonder what theseL messages mean or how I could avoid them. OpenVMS 7.3-1 and DECwindows 1.2-6,. graphics card is a PBXGB-CA (Powerstorm 4D20).  
 Any ideas?   Regards,    Christoph Gartmann    --  E  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452   ImmunbiologieI  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de   D-79011  Freiburg, Germany 9                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 14:51:14 GMT * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> Subject: Re: Drawlib not loaded 4 Message-ID: <Chc%e.13550$IU2.12213@news.cpqcorp.net>  J Look at the DECwindows logical for the extensions, it looks like PEX is in it (you I probably have Open3D installed).  PEX (the Phigs Extension for X11) is an  old, and- no longer used extension to acellerate PHIGS.   H The error is benign, it just indicates that the extension list asked for PEX, but the extension wasn't found.       I "Christoph Gartmann" <gartmann@non.immunbio.mpg.de.sens> wrote in message # news:dhjcid$1pg$1@news.BelWue.DE...  > Hello, > 9 > in DECW$SERVER_0_ERROR.LOG I found the following lines: ( >    tm_device_init: Drawlib not loaded., >    PexExtensionInit: DD_DEVICE_INIT failed& >    glScreenInit: Drawlib not loaded.) >    GLExtensionInit: glScreenInit failed J > The windows environment is working, no problem so far. But I wonder what these G > messages mean or how I could avoid them. OpenVMS 7.3-1 and DECwindows  1.2-6,0 > graphics card is a PBXGB-CA (Powerstorm 4D20). >  > Any ideas? > 
 > Regards, >    Christoph Gartmann  >  > --  G >  Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452  >  ImmunbiologieK >  Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de  >  D-79011  Freiburg, Germany ; >                http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:47:20 +0200  From: S <soterroatyahoodotcom>& Subject: Re: HP's strategy explained :& Message-ID: <433ced83$1@news1.ethz.ch>   Neil Rieck wrote: K > Both Canada and the US publish incorrect unemplyment statistics. In both  M > cases the stats are only generated by those people collecting unemployment  K > insurance pay outs; when UI runs out the (statistical) problem magically  + > disappears. Hello "Wal-Mart greeter" job.   G Incorrect statistics, maybe, but look how useful they are to claim the  B best economy ever happened to man. So if you can trick the people H instead of feeding them, why not... Happiness is after all a subjective $ feeling, welcome to the animal farm.   S    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2005 04:04:36 -0700 From: stuie_norris@yahoo.com.au   Subject: Re: Multiple X servers?C Message-ID: <1128078276.849643.308880@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   
 Hi Joe Sewell   B What is the model number of the 5-port belkin PCI USB card you areC using on your DS10?  Do any of the other single or dual port boards  work?   A What devices do they appear as under VMS and what version are you  using?   I am using a DS10L.      Thanks   Stuart   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 12:22:55 GMT * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>  Subject: Re: Multiple X servers?2 Message-ID: <z6a%e.13539$%S2.117@news.cpqcorp.net>  K While I am not Joe, AFAIK the only USB card that I have seen at Wal-Mart is I a 5-port USB card that is packaged by Belkin, and which has a NEC chip on  it.   L I'd have to pull my system apart to get the chip detail, but I'm sure it has comeD up before in the past (google search the archives for something from probably Forrest Kenney).  > You may need to edit an entry into sys$user_config.dat for it.   V7.3-2 & V8.2-1       , <stuie_norris@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message= news:1128078276.849643.308880@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...  > Hi Joe Sewell  > D > What is the model number of the 5-port belkin PCI USB card you areE > using on your DS10?  Do any of the other single or dual port boards  > work?  > C > What devices do they appear as under VMS and what version are you  > using? >  > I am using a DS10L.  >  > Thanks >  > Stuart >    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2005 07:28:30 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)   Subject: Re: Multiple X servers?3 Message-ID: <YJam6uwdIXrQ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   L In article <yfY_e.10843$WT3.10784@trnddc03>, ST <tringali@yahoo.com> writes:K > An easier way is is get a VNC server running.  Run your debugger outside  K > the VNC in the main window on display 0.  Run the target inside the VNC,  ; > and run the viewier display 1 (or the same screen, even).  > J > Your VNC server/viewer doesn't even need to run on the same machine, if   > you have trouble compiling it.  B    Is there a VNC server for VMS now?  Last time I looked only the    client was available.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 14:55:42 GMT * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>  Subject: Re: Multiple X servers?4 Message-ID: <Olc%e.13551$uW2.10451@news.cpqcorp.net>  A Try the F5U220 which is the 5-port Belkin USB controller.  $29.62   < http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=2470580      , <stuie_norris@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message= news:1128078276.849643.308880@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...  > Hi Joe Sewell  > D > What is the model number of the 5-port belkin PCI USB card you areE > using on your DS10?  Do any of the other single or dual port boards  > work?  > C > What devices do they appear as under VMS and what version are you  > using? >  > I am using a DS10L.  >  > Thanks >  > Stuart >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 18:24:28 +0200 & From: Paul Sture <paul.sture@decus.ch>8 Subject: Re: OT: Military killer dolphins on the loose !+ Message-ID: <3q575tFd57ptU1@individual.net>    BRAD wrote:  > JF Mezei wrote:  > L >> http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1577753,00.html >>C >> Katrina allegedly set loose some military dolphins equipped with K >> weapons. They are allegedly roaming in the Gulf of mexico and trained to 5 >> hunt down humans in wet suits. Surfers beware !!!!  >  > ; > Ummm...the date on the article is _not_ 1-April...    :-)  > C > Seriously though, the article cites the usual "intelligence from  I > sources" - shorthand for, "we don't have any real evidence, so we will   > put forth a WA theory..."   ? Just for laughs, try plugging "exploding cats cia" into Google.   1 Here's one result, dating back to events in 1967:   D http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/animals/newsid_1638000/1638924.stm   ------------------------------   Date: 30 Sep 2005 10:53:04 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)' Subject: Re: Pete My Boy...yer a Genius + Message-ID: <3q4jogFd3bn9U1@individual.net>   + In article <433CA2D5.E7123A88@comcast.net>, 5 	David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:  > GM wrote:  >>   >> I did it......  >>   >> It work.....  >>   >> Holy Shite......  >>   >> Got Debian netinst CD >>  @ >> Used my Gentoo milo floppy....did a quick draw cd change when- >> rebooting.......and it installed debian...  >>   >> wow >>   >> now I'm back to this  >>   >> # >>   >> well......actually this >> debian:~# >>  ! >> but hey.......better than BSOD  >>  1 >> Now I gotta figure out how to install a GUI...  > * > Are you sure it isn't already installed? > $ > Does it respond to a command like: >  > # dwm  > 
 > ...or... > 
 > # xstart  E Actually, that would be "startx".  And if he didn't configure it yet, 6 although it is very likely on the disk, it won't work.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2005 01:00:26 -0700" From: nathanbloomfield@hotmail.com Subject: Quotation marksC Message-ID: <1128067226.037215.320310@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   	 Hi there,   G I'm a very novice VMS (DCL) user trying to get my head around something $ that's probably staring right at me.  ; I'm tring to include quotation marks in the RFILTER string.    $ RFILTER = "23-002-1". $ DEFINE/TABLE=XEN$SYMBOLS TESTFILTER 'RFILTER  $ SHOW LOGICAL/TABLE=XEN$SYMBOLS  6 Some of the approaches I've tried with no success are:   $ RFILTER = """23-002-1"""" $ RFILTER = """ + "23-002-1" + """  C ...and a few others but I'm having no luck.  Is this possible?  Are ) there any equivalents of chr(34) \in DCL?   $ Any advice will be much appreciated.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 04:08:46 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: Quotation marks, Message-ID: <433CF287.330F5441@teksavvy.com>  # nathanbloomfield@hotmail.com wrote:  >  > Hi there,  > I > I'm a very novice VMS (DCL) user trying to get my head around something & > that's probably staring right at me. > = > I'm tring to include quotation marks in the RFILTER string.  >  > $ RFILTER = "23-002-1"0 > $ DEFINE/TABLE=XEN$SYMBOLS TESTFILTER 'RFILTER" > $ SHOW LOGICAL/TABLE=XEN$SYMBOLS   One way to do it:    $RFILTER = "23""""002""""1" - $define/table=mytable testfilter "''rfilter'"     5 In the first statement, RFILTER (symbol) = 23""002""1   7 In the second statement, "''rfilter'" is translated to:   H 				    "23""002""1"  which means that the value assigned to the logical is 23"002"1     D In other words, you double the quotes for every translation that DCL will do.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2005 02:22:22 -0700" From: nathanbloomfield@hotmail.com Subject: Re: Quotation marksC Message-ID: <1128072142.600366.240550@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Hi JF,  @ Thanks for the quick reply.  I havn't had a chance to test this,? however, I just wanted to confirm that my original question was  clear...  B I need to pass the string including quotation marks to the symbol.  B i.e.  "23-002-1" should be the result of TESTFILTER (not 23-002-1)= or another example would be "EXAMPLE" should be the result of  TESTFILTER (not EXAMPLE).   > I am not trying to modify the string in any way or perform any conversions.  
 Thanks again.      JF Mezei wrote: % > nathanbloomfield@hotmail.com wrote:  > > 
 > > Hi there,  > > K > > I'm a very novice VMS (DCL) user trying to get my head around something ( > > that's probably staring right at me. > > ? > > I'm tring to include quotation marks in the RFILTER string.  > >  > > $ RFILTER = "23-002-1"2 > > $ DEFINE/TABLE=XEN$SYMBOLS TESTFILTER 'RFILTER$ > > $ SHOW LOGICAL/TABLE=XEN$SYMBOLS >  > One way to do it:  >  > $RFILTER = "23""""002""""1" / > $define/table=mytable testfilter "''rfilter'"  >  > 7 > In the first statement, RFILTER (symbol) = 23""002""1  > 9 > In the second statement, "''rfilter'" is translated to:  > J > 				    "23""002""1"  which means that the value assigned to the logical
 > is 23"002"1  >  > F > In other words, you double the quotes for every translation that DCL
 > will do.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:47:44 -0400  From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: Quotation marksQ Message-ID: <OF71C2A62E.94B54ED5-ON8525708C.004B84DC-8525708C.004BC822@metso.com>   = nathanbloomfield@hotmail.com wrote on 09/30/2005 05:22:22 AM:    > Hi JF, > B > Thanks for the quick reply.  I havn't had a chance to test this,A > however, I just wanted to confirm that my original question was 
 > clear... > D > I need to pass the string including quotation marks to the symbol. > D > i.e.  "23-002-1" should be the result of TESTFILTER (not 23-002-1)? > or another example would be "EXAMPLE" should be the result of  > TESTFILTER (not EXAMPLE).  > @ > I am not trying to modify the string in any way or perform any > conversions. >  > Thanks again.  >  >  > JF Mezei wrote: ' > > nathanbloomfield@hotmail.com wrote:  > > >  > > > Hi there,  > > > C > > > I'm a very novice VMS (DCL) user trying to get my head around 	 something * > > > that's probably staring right at me. > > > A > > > I'm tring to include quotation marks in the RFILTER string.  > > >  > > > $ RFILTER = "23-002-1"4 > > > $ DEFINE/TABLE=XEN$SYMBOLS TESTFILTER 'RFILTER& > > > $ SHOW LOGICAL/TABLE=XEN$SYMBOLS > >  > > One way to do it:  > >  > > $RFILTER = "23""""002""""1" 1 > > $define/table=mytable testfilter "''rfilter'"  > >  > > 9 > > In the first statement, RFILTER (symbol) = 23""002""1  > > ; > > In the second statement, "''rfilter'" is translated to:  > > E > >                 "23""002""1"  which means that the value assigned  > to the logical > > is 23"002"1  > >  > > H > > In other words, you double the quotes for every translation that DCL > > will do. > 6 He's right, although he missunderstood your final aim.   So   $RFILTER = """""23-002-1""""" 2 $ DEFINE/TABLE=XEN$SYMBOLS TESTFILTER "''RFILTER'"  
 should do it.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 18:08:01 GMT # From: hoff@hp.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)  Subject: Re: Quotation marks3 Message-ID: <5af%e.13580$o13.8441@news.cpqcorp.net>   h In article <1128067226.037215.320310@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, nathanbloomfield@hotmail.com writes:  H :I'm a very novice VMS (DCL) user trying to get my head around something% :that's probably staring right at me.   G   The OpenVMS User's Guide in the manual set and (shameless plug alert) F   the book I wrote a while back (Writing Real Programs in DCL, Digital8   Press) cover this and other DCL topics in some detail.  < :I'm tring to include quotation marks in the RFILTER string. :  :$ RFILTER = "23-002-1"   >   In addition to the other replies, there is the following and!   somewhat more devious approach:    $ quote[0,7] = 34   $ x = quote + "23-002-1" + quote $ show symbol x    X = ""23-002-1"" $   @   The "fun" here is that the DEFINE command is being run through?   DCL and particularly through symbol substitution, and is thus >   stripping off a set of quotes.  (You can end up stacking the4   quotes pretty deep because of this sort of thing.)  :   Depending on exactly what you are up to here, a slightly&   different approach is the following:   $ y="23-002-1" $ define FOO """''y'"""/nolog 
 $ sho log foo +    "FOO" = ""23-002-1"" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)  $   C   What's the particular goal here -- getting quotes into the string <   translation of the logical name itself, or something else?    N  ---------------------------- #include <rtfaq.h> -----------------------------K     For additional, please see the OpenVMS FAQ -- www.hp.com/go/openvms/faq N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------E         Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoff[at]hp.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 10:40:51 GMT " From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG1 Subject: Re: Thought you would enjoy this posting 0 Message-ID: <00A4A912.5CFDF86A@SendSpamHere.ORG>  v In article <Sm0%e.7020$q1.4543@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>, "William Hymen" <t18_pilot@hotmail.spam.com> writes:- >I found this posting on a Windoze newsgroup. 0 >(should I have just told him to switch to VMS?)  # You read Weendoze newsgroups?  Why?  --  K VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              5   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"     ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 10:55:23 GMT 2 From: "William Hymen" <t18_pilot@hotmail.spam.com>1 Subject: Re: Thought you would enjoy this posting B Message-ID: <vQ8%e.6403$QE1.1269@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>  , <VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:00A4A912.5CFDF86A@SendSpamHere.ORG...L > In article <Sm0%e.7020$q1.4543@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>, "William+ Hymen" <t18_pilot@hotmail.spam.com> writes: / > >I found this posting on a Windoze newsgroup. 2 > >(should I have just told him to switch to VMS?) > % > You read Weendoze newsgroups?  Why?  > --2 > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > 6 >   "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"  3 Well, I work in Change Control for a huge bank, and * we own every platform ever built. Our data centers look like CompUSA!   Bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:10:03 -0700 , From: Alan <Usenet02_REMOVE@Flying-Disk.com>1 Subject: Re: Thought you would enjoy this posting % Message-ID: <1128096459.669480@smirk>    William Hymen wrote:  5 > Well, I work in Change Control for a huge bank, and , > we own every platform ever built. Our data > centers look like CompUSA!  6 Complete with all the dumb-as-a-brick employees?   :-)   Alan   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 08:18:16 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing)# Subject: Re: Time to produce EV79s! 6 Message-ID: <00A4A8E5.4C5838F1@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  \ In article <433C98A5.5F9A29F5@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:- >Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote: R >> Meantime, the day VMS is released on x86, with no Office or Office-equivalents,E >> is the day Microsoft doesn't even notice a blip in their earnings.  > F >Apple is also a just a tiny blip on Microsoft,s books, but it doesn't1 >prevent Apple from growing and being profitable.   K (Through amazing personal productivity software, and, incidentally, through 5 having a port of MS Office so they can interoperate.)    > G >It doesn't matter that VMS would be just a small blip. It matters that G >VMS on the 8086 would have far greater potential for sales/growth than J >on a sinking IA64 brick with no market momentum and terrible media image.  F I'm not arguing with _you_.  I'm arguing with Bob's insane claim that H Oracle and Microsoft pay off Digital/Compaq/HP execs not to port VMS to  x86.     -- Alan    ------------------------------   Date: 30 Sep 2005 12:05:23 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Vamp Hacked! + Message-ID: <3q4o02Fd1g3mU1@individual.net>   3 In article <SCIygF9qWQ$s@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 0 	Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:b > In article <433CA591.64CC91EB@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: >> Larry Kilgallen wrote:  >>> d >>> In article <433C99E8.DE91FB83@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: >>> I >>> > I guess the lesson here is that even the most unhackable o.s. can't 5 >>> > prevent applications from having weak security.  >>> E >>> Whereas I would say the lesson is to avoid importing applications 7 >>> that are "good enough" for other operating systems.  >>  " >> ...and the alternative is ... ? >  > Write it properly for VMS.  F The OS it was written for isn't the problem.  It is written in PHP andG is equally unsecure on every OS.  The correct answer is to jump off the . bandwagon and stop writting all this PHP crap.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2005 06:57:32 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: Vamp Hacked! 3 Message-ID: <SCIygF9qWQ$s@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <433CA591.64CC91EB@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: > Larry Kilgallen wrote: >>  c >> In article <433C99E8.DE91FB83@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes:  >>  H >> > I guess the lesson here is that even the most unhackable o.s. can't4 >> > prevent applications from having weak security. >>  D >> Whereas I would say the lesson is to avoid importing applications6 >> that are "good enough" for other operating systems. > ! > ...and the alternative is ... ?    Write it properly for VMS.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2005 07:32:58 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Vamp Hacked! 3 Message-ID: <oPL0GEmbUvxy@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <433C99E8.DE91FB83@comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.nospam@comcast.net> writes: > E > I guess the lesson here is that even the most unhackable o.s. can't 1 > prevent applications from having weak security.  >   H    Didn't I just read a post where someone wanted MS WOrd ported to VMS?  
    No thanks.    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2005 07:53:06 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: Vamp Hacked! 3 Message-ID: <tOlJlULpg5FJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <3q4o02Fd1g3mU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:5 > In article <SCIygF9qWQ$s@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 2 > 	Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:   >> Write it properly for VMS.  > H > The OS it was written for isn't the problem.  It is written in PHP andI > is equally unsecure on every OS.  The correct answer is to jump off the 0 > bandwagon and stop writting all this PHP crap.  E My feeling is that the VMS culture is less likely to result in people G implementing with a faulty tool.  To the extent that people just "port" A they bypass the step where one makes rational security decisions.    ------------------------------   Date: 30 Sep 2005 13:17:28 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Vamp Hacked! + Message-ID: <3q4s78Fd8janU2@individual.net>   3 In article <tOlJlULpg5FJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 0 	Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:X > In article <3q4o02Fd1g3mU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:6 >> In article <SCIygF9qWQ$s@eisner.encompasserve.org>,3 >> 	Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:  >  >>> Write it properly for VMS. >>  I >> The OS it was written for isn't the problem.  It is written in PHP and J >> is equally unsecure on every OS.  The correct answer is to jump off the1 >> bandwagon and stop writting all this PHP crap.  > G > My feeling is that the VMS culture is less likely to result in people I > implementing with a faulty tool.  To the extent that people just "port" C > they bypass the step where one makes rational security decisions.   F Somebody from the VMS community ported PHP to VMS.  That was the first step on the road to hell.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 11:56:28 -0400 ' From: Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn@gmail.com>  Subject: Re: Vamp Hacked! H Message-ID: <7dd80f60509300856g2a0452a3y17e9adde0f291045@mail.gmail.com>  F On 30 Sep 2005 13:17:28 GMT, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote:5 > In article <tOlJlULpg5FJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 9 >         Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: L > > In article <3q4o02Fd1g3mU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Guns= hannon) writes: 8 > >> In article <SCIygF9qWQ$s@eisner.encompasserve.org>,9 > >>      Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: K > >> The OS it was written for isn't the problem.  It is written in PHP and L > >> is equally unsecure on every OS.  The correct answer is to jump off th= e 3 > >> bandwagon and stop writting all this PHP crap.  > > I > > My feeling is that the VMS culture is less likely to result in people K > > implementing with a faulty tool.  To the extent that people just "port" E > > they bypass the step where one makes rational security decisions.  > H > Somebody from the VMS community ported PHP to VMS.  That was the first > step on the road to hell.   E It's not the language, in this case PHP, that is causing the security D problems, it is that most open source programs were not written withB security as part of their design. Retrofitting security into code,F without rewriting the code, can be a disaster in itself. One can write, a secure program in PHP, as in any language.  B A number of people well known in the PHP area, have formed the PHPF Security Consortium. This is their purpose as stated on their web site <http://www.phpsec.org/>:    [qoute] B Founded in January 2005, the PHP Security Consortium (PHPSC) is an@ international group of PHP experts dedicated to promoting secureD programming practices within the PHP community. Members of the PHPSCB seek to educate PHP developers about security through a variety of9 resources, including documentation, tools, and standards.   > In addition to their educational efforts, the PHPSC engages inE exploratory and experimental research in order to develop and promote ; standards of best practice for PHP application development.  [end quote]   D They have a big job in front of them, since there are so many peopleE writing code who have no clue about security or how to design/program  with security in mind.   Ken RobinsonE Nolonger an Unemployed OpenVMS System Manager (new job starts Monday)    ------------------------------   Date: 30 Sep 2005 16:14:43 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Vamp Hacked! + Message-ID: <3q56jiFck121U1@individual.net>   H In article <7dd80f60509300856g2a0452a3y17e9adde0f291045@mail.gmail.com>,* 	Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn@gmail.com> writes:H > On 30 Sep 2005 13:17:28 GMT, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote:6 >> In article <tOlJlULpg5FJ@eisner.encompasserve.org>,: >>         Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:[ >> > In article <3q4o02Fd1g3mU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: 9 >> >> In article <SCIygF9qWQ$s@eisner.encompasserve.org>, : >> >>      Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:L >> >> The OS it was written for isn't the problem.  It is written in PHP andM >> >> is equally unsecure on every OS.  The correct answer is to jump off the 4 >> >> bandwagon and stop writting all this PHP crap. >> >J >> > My feeling is that the VMS culture is less likely to result in peopleL >> > implementing with a faulty tool.  To the extent that people just "port"F >> > they bypass the step where one makes rational security decisions. >>I >> Somebody from the VMS community ported PHP to VMS.  That was the first  >> step on the road to hell.G > It's not the language, in this case PHP, that is causing the security F > problems, it is that most open source programs were not written withD > security as part of their design. Retrofitting security into code,; > without rewriting the code, can be a disaster in itself.    B Go back and look at the origins of PHP.  Like PERL it was intendedB to short-circuit the Software Engineering process amking quick and dirty programs a norm.    H >                                                          One can write. > a secure program in PHP, as in any language.D > A number of people well known in the PHP area, have formed the PHPH > Security Consortium. This is their purpose as stated on their web site > <http://www.phpsec.org/>: 	 > [qoute] D > Founded in January 2005, the PHP Security Consortium (PHPSC) is anB > international group of PHP experts dedicated to promoting secureF > programming practices within the PHP community. Members of the PHPSCD > seek to educate PHP developers about security through a variety of; > resources, including documentation, tools, and standards. @ > In addition to their educational efforts, the PHPSC engages inG > exploratory and experimental research in order to develop and promote = > standards of best practice for PHP application development. 
 > [end quote] F > They have a big job in front of them, since there are so many peopleG > writing code who have no clue about security or how to design/program  > with security in mind.  G My point exactly.  And that was the mindset of originators.  Not having F BASIC available for their quick and dirties the developed languages toJ fill that vacuum.  Knowing what he thought of BASIC, I wonder what Dykstra* would have to say about these "languages".   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2005 13:43:47 -04003 From: Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com>  Subject: Re: Vamp Hacked! . Message-ID: <mddhdc2pi24.fsf@panix5.panix.com>  * bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  D > Go back and look at the origins of PHP.  Like PERL it was intendedD > to short-circuit the Software Engineering process amking quick and > dirty programs a norm.    I > My point exactly.  And that was the mindset of originators.  Not having H > BASIC available for their quick and dirties the developed languages toL > fill that vacuum.  Knowing what he thought of BASIC, I wonder what Dykstra, > would have to say about these "languages".  O Perl has all the correct control structures advocated by Dahl, Dijkstra, Hoare, N and Wirth, along with data encapsulation.  It's the dream language of those ofM us raised on the works of Ed Yourdon and Tom de Marco.  Edsger Dijkstra would  have no problem with Perl.  N The problem Dijkstra had with BASIC was that, other than the counted FOR loop,M the only control structure was the GOTO (and GOSUB works a lot more like GOTO K than like CALL), and all data was global.  This is not the case, as already  stated, with Perl.  L PHP may have only BASIC's control structures, but I doubt it--it was created	 post-DDH.   N BTW, I am a latecomer to Perl, not learning the language until v5.6 was matureN and v5.8 (the current release) was in beta.  It reminds me of my PL/1 (& PL/I)  days, as well as my Pascal days.   --  L Rich Alderson                                       | /"\ ASCII ribbon     |L news@alderson.users.panix.com                       | \ / campaign against |L "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime."    |  x  HTML mail and    |L                          --Death, of the Endless    | / \ postings         |   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2005 08:58:11 -0700* From: "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net> Subject: VMS on the |nquirerB Message-ID: <1128095891.954327.38260@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>  G Worth a look at www.theinquirer.net right now. Note the Intel VMS story A and the clickable "If VMS is your god" pic(top left) from Digital  India.   --  
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2005 07:54:50 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ? Subject: RE: Why did VMS users go along with the itanium farce? 3 Message-ID: <AQ8HAF1ekzNm@eisner.encompasserve.org>   | In article <FD827B33AB0D9C4E92EACEEFEE2BA2FB70BFB2@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes:  C > Thx for all the history, but I was specifically referring to JF's D > assertion that Intel and HP had decided to relegate Itanium to the+ > supercomputer or in your case "high end".  > I > If any business system from 2-128cpu's is what JF and you refer to high I > end or supercomputers, then so be it. You are correct that that is what / > Intel and HP have decided to "limit" IA64 to.   F Another viewpoint is that the term "high end" refers to any system not running Microsoft Windows.   ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2005 06:45:54 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>? Subject: Re: Why did VMS users go along with the itanium farce? C Message-ID: <1128087954.761419.180970@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Bill Todd wrote: > Main, Kerry wrote: > >>-----Original Message-----8 > >>From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com]$ > >>Sent: September 29, 2005 3:03 PM > >>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com C > >>Subject: Re: Why did VMS users go along with the itanium farce?  > >> > >>"Main, Kerry" wrote: > >>> > >>>1. Although it would be nice, Itanium does not need to be > >> > >>the leader in  > >>> > >>>latest speeds-n-feeds in order to be successful.  It just > >> > >>needs to be  > >>I > >>>competitive. Heck, Sun has proven that over the years and as slow as  > >>>SPARC was,  > >> > >>H > >>There is a big difference here. SPARC was succesfull, considered the= > >>"industry standard" for Unix and was widely regarded as a  > >>safe platform. > >>J > >>IA64 has none of those attributes. It doesn't have an established userH > >>base, it is new and already talk of killing it because it just isn'tI > >>what it promised it would be. And more importantly, HP and Intel have E > >>already started to cannabalise it by limiting its market niche to I > >>supercomputers, and then there is the writing on the wall with the 64 < > >>bit 8086 which Intel swore woudl never happen, coming to > >>further reduce > >>IA64's remaining niche.  > >> > >  > > 0 > > Wow, where have you been getting this stuff? > J > I'll answer that question just to keep you honest, Kerry - though that's > always a difficult task. > H > "There is a big difference here" indeed, and he goes on to explain it, > point by point:  > I > "SPARC was successful" - very much so, to the point that it established C > a loyal user base large enough to have weathered years of sub-par E > performance and still remain the largest single Unix customer base.   G Uh, Kerry also said that SPARC was successful. He also said that it was > successful despite its sub-par performance. So where's the big difference?   D The three of you disagree to agree! Nice. We're making real progress	 here. ;-)  [...]    ------------------------------    Date: 30 Sep 2005 06:42:26 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>? Subject: Re: Why did VMS users go along with the itanium farce? B Message-ID: <1128087746.589941.55840@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > "Main, Kerry" wrote:K > > 1. Although it would be nice, Itanium does not need to be the leader in I > > latest speeds-n-feeds in order to be successful.  It just needs to be H > > competitive. Heck, Sun has proven that over the years and as slow as > > SPARC was, >  > F > There is a big difference here. SPARC was succesfull, considered the  A Fascinating. You refute Kerry by agreeing with him that SPARC was C successful. IOW, he said it was successful, and now you say the big ) difference is that it was successful. (!)   J > "industry standard" for Unix and was widely regarded as a safe platform. > H > IA64 has none of those attributes. It doesn't have an established user  D So what you're saying is that Itanium can't be successful because itE isn't already successful. I think that's anti-circular reasoning. :-)    [...]    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2005.546 ************************