1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 14 Apr 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 207       Contents:) Announcing WRUG LUG meeting - May 2, 2006 E Re: Is OpenVMS certified yet for 64-way Hard partitions (GS1280 M64). E Re: Is OpenVMS certified yet for 64-way Hard partitions (GS1280 M64). * Re: manually resetting file revision dates$ Re: SoyMail & insufficient privilegeG Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 15:58:39 GMT / From: "Joe H. Gallagher" <dtrwiz@ix.netcom.com> 2 Subject: Announcing WRUG LUG meeting - May 2, 2006, Message-ID: <443FC572.9040201@ix.netcom.com>   . ,                   Announcing May 2nd Meeting-                   Western Reserve Users Group '                        (Northeast Ohio) .                  Local User Group of Encompass  7            (usual place, usual time, almost usual date)   6 If you are going to attend the LUG meeting on May 2nd,: please RSVP to this message or to Sederholm at TrendCS dot8 com.  We would like to get an estimate of the number who; will attend so we can have the appropriate number of slices 9 of pizza (or other food).  Please RSVP before noon on the  day of the meeting.    Topic: Hewlett-Packard Update   ?     * End of Service Life (EOSL) for various hardware products,      * AlphaServer roadmap,)     * Integrity Server (Itanium) roadmap,      * OpenVMS V8.2 update,!     * What's new in OpenVMS V8.3, "     * Looking into the future, and     * Services.   * Speaker: Rich Pearlman, HP, Pittsburgh, PA  <     Rich Pearlman, a 28 year veteran with Digital Equipment,?     Compaq and now HP, is a Solutions Architect specializing in 8     HPs Business Critical Servers and Networked Storage9     Systems.  Rich has spent most of this time delivering ;     product and strategy presentations to a wide variety of A     audiences.  Prior to working for HP, Rich spent 5 years doing ?     systems programming at Carnegie Mellon University in an IBM 6     mainframe environment.  Rich holds a BS in Applied1     Mathematics and an MS in Information Science.  	 9     Rich is the counterpart for the WRUG (Encompass LUG).   @ Topic: Monitoring the Internal Network against Viruses and Worms  7 Speaker: Allen Perk, President XLNsystems, Columbus, OH   <     Allen Perk has been in Information Technology since 1978:     when he graduated from Miami University receiving a BS>     degree in Applied Science.  He formed his IT foundation at:     Ernst & Ernst, State Government, and Digital Equipment<     Corporation prior to starting XLNsystems in 1991.  Since?     then XLNsystems boasts a client return rate of over 97% and :     the company focuses its skills on Software Application@     Development, Remote System Administration, Network Security,!     and Web Application Security.    Date: Tuesday, May 2, 2006   Time: 4:00 to 7:00 PM   	 Location:        Park Center Plaza III      Lower Level conference room      6050 Oak Tree Blvd.      Independence, OH 44131;     (Call Joe's cell phone at 216-406-7659 if you get lost)    Map: See URL on the Web site   Directions:   :     From the area of the interchange of I-480 and I-77, go*     south and take the Rockside Road exit.  =     At the bottom of the ramp, turn right (west) on Rockside.   ;     Go west two blocks (second light); turn left (south) on      Oak Tree Blvd.   See the LUG's web page at   &     http://eisner.decus.org/lugs/wrug/  & Future LUG meetings are scheduled for:  !     (none scheduled at this time)    See you May 2nd.       Bill Sederholm     WRUG LUG Chair      Sederholm at TrendCS dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 02:34:24 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> N Subject: Re: Is OpenVMS certified yet for 64-way Hard partitions (GS1280 M64).9 Message-ID: <m96dnV0S_Zt73KLZnZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d@libcom.com>    David J. Dachtera wrote: > Dave Froble wrote: >  >>David J. Dachtera wrote: >> >>>Dave Froble wrote:  >>>  >>>  >>>>JF Mezei wrote:  >>>> >>>> >>>>>Dave Froble wrote:  >>>>>  >>>>>  >>>>> G >>>>>>If HP cared about keeping these customers, they'd be pro-actively K >>>>>>talking to them and insuring them they'd have whatever they need.  If P >>>>>>that's 64 CPU Alphas until Cerner is running on the itanic, then so be it. >>>>>  >>>>> K >>>>>Consider Swift. Once Swift had agreed to heed's Palmer suggestion they J >>>>>abandon VMS, there was no turning back, and the owner of VMS wouldn'tM >>>>>have lifted a finger to try to retain customers it knew wouldn't be able J >>>>>to remain on VMS for long anyways. (and during the Compaq era, CompaqJ >>>>>would have known the odds were very slim that a Swift customer on VMSJ >>>>>would migrate to a windows based solution which didn't fully exist at5 >>>>>that time, and that is all Compaq had to offer).  >>>>> J >>>>>**IF** Cerner doesn't have intentions of remaining on VMS in the longF >>>>>term and prefers to focus on other platforms such as AIX, then HPG >>>>>wouldn't have much in terms of incentives to spend money to retain - >>>>>customers it knows it will lose anyways.  >>>>> K >>>>>On the other hand, if the VMS engineers know that VMS works on 64 CPUs G >>>>>but that they just never got around to documenting it, adding this L >>>>>qualified support might be easy, or they may simply tell Cerner that itA >>>>>should work and gice Cerner the tools to test it themselves.  >>>>K >>>>Jumping to conclusions without any reason.  I've not read one word that H >>>>says Cerner is abandoning VMS.  Not saying they are, or aren't, justK >>>>haven't seen anything to indicate they are.  Unless you have some solid L >>>>information, speculating on one of your pet theories isn't very helpful. >>>  >>> H >>>Well, consider that two of Cerner's largest sites in the Chicago area= >>>have been lost by HP as storage customers in favor of EMC.  >>> E >>>Consider that Cerner's three largest sites in the Chicago area are I >>>contemplating an eventualy move to AIX to obtain 64 CPU support (and a 7 >>>somewhat less uncertain future for their platforms).  >>; >>I'd think that an entity could make that switch anytime.   >  > H > Mighty big investment to discard, and another mighty big investment to$ > gamble on a whim, don't you think?  E My point exactly.  If the migration can be made at any time, then to  G avoid spending the substantial money such a conversion would cost, the  C logical thing to do is to defer the migration as long as possible.  I Perhaps it will not be required.  Regardless of the odds, they are still  F better than jumping in immediately and migrating.  The odds there are ' 100% that you'll incur migration costs.    >>If that's D >>true, why would any intelligent entity perform what I'd guess is a= >>rather expensive exercise immediately and upon speculation?  >  > $ > To which speculation do you refer?  H Ok, I'm not a Cerner customer and don't have anything to do with Cerner H or any of their customers.  All I have to go on is some posts in c.o.v. G   All I've seen in those posts is that Cerner customers (at least 1 or  I 2) are speculating that they will be unable to get 64 CPU Alphas running  F VMS, and they will be unable to get anything elsr running VMS to meet H their needs.  It reads like it's speculation.  I've not seen anyone say G that they have been told by Cerner that they should prepare to migrate   to IBM.  That speculation.  I > Remember: I am "insider" in one of the organizations mentioned. This is  > not speculation, it is FACT!  A What is fact?  That your organization is speculating?  That your  A organization is planning a migration?  That Cerner has told your  I organization to migrate?  I'm pretty dense, I need it spelled out for me.   G > Our growth rates are the stuff that IT has been dealing with in years B > since PCs went from hundreds of megabytes on their hard discs toJ > hundreds of gigabytes. It isn't just storage demands that increase (oursH > has doubled in the last three years), but processing power as well. IfD > you understand the mathematical laws of compounding, the situation" > should spell itself out for you.  7 You need more capabilities.  Ok, I can understand that.   J >>>Consider also that we're on the threshold of V8.3 and Cerner has yet toG >>>certify V8.2 (which will be two versions back, allowing for V8.2-1).  >>H >>Does Cerner have anything to say about their current and future plans?J >>I'd think that a vendor would be up front and open with their customers.H >>  Has anybody just come out and asked Cerner what their VMS plans are? >>If not, why not? >  > J > We've been asking for many months. We are still awaiting a reply for the% > non-sales side of the organization.   @ Ok, they're not being helpful.  What does the sales side of the  organization have to say?   I >>>Consider that the last sale dates for Alpha are just around the corner % >>>and Cerner has yet to certify I64.  >>F >>Same questions as above.  What does Cerner say about VMS on the good >>ship itanic?   >  >  > "Not yet certified."  E Any indication if, and if then when?  I'd guess the first part, 'if'  G would be all that's required.  If it's 'no', then you've got the whole   answer.    >>If nobody has asked, why not?  >  >  > See the above. >  > K >>>I know you're an intelligent guy, Dave. I'm sure you can put 2.0 and 2.0 D >>>together come with something approximating 4.0, even allowing for >>>floating-point errors.  >>I >>No, I don't think that that is the proper way to run an enterprise.  If H >>I was running things at your shop, and I had concerns, I'd be in touchB >>with upper management at Cerner and be demanding some guidance.  >  >  > Been there, done that. >  > 	 >>As your H >>vendor, it's their responsibility to let you know where they're going,5 >>and to keep you from wasting money on speculation.   >  >  > Preaching to the choir.  >  >  >>I'd be asking Cerner >>what is the total of 2 + 2.  >  > J > They'll have to ask their engineering people to see if that kind of math > has been certified yet.    :-)   K >>>As someone in my office put it, the "marriage" between Cerner and VMS is  >>>seriously on the rocks. >> >>Do they know this? >  >  > Yes.  G Can you be explicit about what 'someone in your office' knows, and how  
 they know it?   # >>Has anyone just asked the vendor?  >  > H > The vendor has made its intentions/directions unmistakable through its > actions and inactions.  I I find it rather hard to believe that a vendor would jerk it's customers  F around in this manner.  Just what does their software do?  Maybe they  need some competition.  H >>Such things can feed upon themselves.  Customers are heard to say that >>Cerner is abandoning VMS.  >  > ! > Based on the evidence apparent.    That's 'feeding on itself'.   * >>Cerner hears such, and thinks that their >>customers are abandoning VMS,  >  > F > Try again: Cerner hears VMS customers screaming, and chooses its ownC > direction regardless. (probably took that cue from DEC/Compaq/HP)    See above about competition.  * >>so they had better place their resources >>elsewhere. >  > H > Try again. Until it threatens their bottom line rather than supportingJ > it, they're going to keep drifting away from HP and eventually away from > VMS.   See above about competition.   >>Has anyone >  >  > EVERYONE!  >  > > >>told Cerner that they'd rather remain on VMS, and asked when8 >>the latest version of VMS on itanic will be certified? >  > 
 > Repeatedly.  >  > 4 >>Maybe you need to ask, so they know what you want. >  > F > We have asked. They know. They do like HP and do as they damned well > please anyway.  > Strange.  I didn't think anyone else could match that madness.  - >>Am I the only one who can see this clearly?  >  > H > Forgive what sounds like a dig at you, but perhaps you're the only oneI > naive enough to think that those bases haven't been covered since ages.   I As I wrote above, all I have to go on is several posts.  I try very hard  ! to not jump to hasty comclusions.   & > C'mon, Dave, plug back into reality. > J > This is not just the frustrated rantings of disgusted techies, this is a9 > reflection of what we are exposed to every working day.  > ( > Cerner knows what its customers know:  > H > o VMS is a dead-end proposition, barring a major miracle (maybe a dealI > with Samsung to keep the Alpha fabs cranking out EV7z's or something, a I > miraculous technical breakthrough that makes all of the billions pumped H > down the Itanic drain finally come to profitable fruition, voices fromG > the heavens speaking to someone of influence who brings the news that D > x86-64 is the one, true savior of OpenVMS and HP, ... who knows?).  G It's my understanding IBM is fabbing the Alphas, and I'd guess they'll  H continue to do so as long as they get orders.  However, if they're told I there will not be any more orders, who could blame them for selling that  C production to someone else.  The game consoles will give them more   business than any non-x86 CPU.  F As long as Intel remains committed, the itanic is a valid option.  It C does work.  Would Alpha work better?  I think you've probably read  K enough posts from me to know that I think killing Alpha was a hugh mistake.   F I may have lost all my previous VMS customers, but I still have hopes ' for VMS.  Not betting any money though.   C > o Alpha is a dead-end proposition, regardless of how infirm those F > last-sale dates are touted to be. The mere annunciation of last-sale > dates sealed that fate.   F Well, at least HP has indicated their intentions.  I'm guessing you'd   like Cerner to do the same.  :-)  E > o Even if Itanic does finally arrive in a form that rivals the last J > Alphas, it will come years too late - 32 CPU Alphas will have been maxed8 > out long before then and replaced with something else.  I  From reading other posts, it seems that all that's needed to purchase a  F 64 CPU Alpha is to place an order.  If you need it, why aren't orders 
 being placed?   ' > Cerner knows what its customers want:  > 0 > o Quality application software (not there now)  G Don't understand.  Are you saying that the current Cerner applications   are not good quality?   D > o A future for their OpenVMS investment (not within their power to
 > guarantee).  > D > o Assurance that performance goals will be achievable, even at the% > expense of migrating away from VMS.  >      --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 02:49:36 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> N Subject: Re: Is OpenVMS certified yet for 64-way Hard partitions (GS1280 M64).9 Message-ID: <utKdnZSqKNXr2KLZnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@libcom.com>    John Reagan wrote:D > I just thought I'd mention that with the last sale date for Alpha I > systems coming later this year, it is very reasonable for customers to  K > evaluate their current system load and try to predict their future Alpha  H > requirements.  For instance, do you buy another M32 or do you inquire 3 > about an M32 to M64 upgrade with OpenVMS support.  > I > I've heard that while the announced date is October, you might be able  J > to buy new Alpha system afterwards just as long as you give HP a 'heads I > up' about your future system needs by October.  All the more reason to  G > do evaluations/predictions today and pass them along to your account   > person/reseller. >   G I'm thinking that some of the problem is that HP announced a last sale  E date while the itanic just isn't there yet in the large system arena.   A Burning bridges behind you, while the road ahead is still in the  & planning stages, just ain't too smart.  I Pissing away such customers just isn't too smart.  These are the type of  H customers who continue to spend big bucks.  They are not they type that H change systems easily, and getting them back in the future would entail  purchasing IBM.     Still holding onto my IBM stock.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 14:47:31 GMT & From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>3 Subject: Re: manually resetting file revision dates 1 Message-ID: <7CO%f.6324$3l6.442@news.cpqcorp.net>    mabbuttg@yahoo.ca wrote:C > Thanks for the links.  However, I can't get the file rev macro to I > compile after cutting and pasting from the site.  Unfortunately I don't I > know anything about this language, so hopefully someone can point me in 3 > the right direction.  The errors I'm getting are:   E That is Macro-32 from VAX.  The code needs a few tweaks to get it to  C compile on Alpha and I64.  Email me the .MAR file (if it needs any  G .MLBs, ZIP'em to me as well so I can test compile it) and I'll add the   needed directives.   --   John Reagan / HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO for OpenVMS Project Leader  Hewlett-Packard Company    ------------------------------    Date: 14 Apr 2006 09:33:58 -0700# From: "chaos" <dciobanu@rogers.com> - Subject: Re: SoyMail & insufficient privilege B Message-ID: <1145032438.499413.64620@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>   Hello,  > I'm getting the same error: Fatal soyMAIL Error:  InsufficientE privilege or object protection violation. when trying to log private.   I'm using Apache 1.3 on VMS 8.2.  + Alias /soymail/-/ "/apache$common/soymail/"   $ <Directory ~ "^/cgi-bin/soymail/\~">     AuthType Basic%     AuthName "OpenVMS authentication"      AuthUserOpenVMS On     require valid-user </Directory>   soymail.conf   [private-access] */*/*   % [logout-realm] OpenVMS authentication   & I can login public but I want private.   What am I missing ?    TIA,   Dumitru    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 06:01:15 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> P Subject: Re: The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS Application Developer9 Message-ID: <5pK%f.4667$fo1.219282@news20.bellglobal.com>   2 "toby" <toby@telegraphics.com.au> wrote in message= news:1144703149.339176.316470@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...    > E > You should familiarise yourself with versions 4 and 5 of the server  > before go on.  >   K Version 5.x adds so many missing features they should have changed the name 	 to MySQL+      >  > --Toby >   E On a related note, in the book "The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an C OpenVMS Application Developer" in the MySQL chapter there is a full K introduction page telling OpenVMS people all the reasons why they should be L using RDB instead. At this point, the author assumes the only reason you areL still reading is "financial pressures on your project" then shows you how toF call MySQL and also explains some of the gotchas. For people with beanL counters to answer to (most of us) a resource like this will immediately payL for itself if one can "prove" that a product like MySQL shouldn't be used in1 all circumstances just because it is almost free.   J p.s. there is something cheesy about the "cover page" graphic shown on the seller's web site at: ' http://www.islandco.com/theminimum.html   A Don't let this graphic fool you; the actual cover looks much more K professional and the book's contents are much better. This is the best book F on OpenVMS application programming that I've seen in the last 15 yearsL (since "Writing VAX/VMS Applications Using Pascal" by Theo De Klerk in 1991)L but if you don't believe me, check out this book review at www.OpenVms.org :9 http://www.openvms.org/stories.php?story=06/04/02/4453076   
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.207 ************************