1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 20 Apr 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 218       Contents: Re: Anyone know David Cathey?  Re: F$getqui Re: F$getqui Re: F$getqui Re: Free rz26s and rz28s, Re: How does a fix become a published patch?, Re: How does a fix become a published patch?, Re: How does a fix become a published patch?, Re: How does a fix become a published patch?E Re: Is OpenVMS certified yet for 64-way Hard partitions (GS1280 M64).  Re: new DST routines for C-RTL Re: new DST routines for C-RTL Re: new DST routines for C-RTLP Obtain MCSE,MCSD,MCSA,MCDBA without exams(Pay after check results)100% passing g Re: OT: Sparc not dead yet< Re: Partitioned cluster question (reboot during lost quorum)< Re: Partitioned cluster question (reboot during lost quorum)< Re: Partitioned cluster question (reboot during lost quorum)$ Re: SoyMail & insufficient privilege$ Re: SoyMail & insufficient privilegeD Re: Star Coupler failures (was: Re: CI Path Errors (was Re: Errors)). Re: Strange behavior of DEFINE with equal-sign. Re: Strange behavior of DEFINE with equal-sign. Re: Strange behavior of DEFINE with equal-sign. Re: Strange behavior of DEFINE with equal-sign. Re: Strange behavior of DEFINE with equal-sign. Re: Strange behavior of DEFINE with equal-sign. Re: Strange behavior of DEFINE with equal-sign. Re: Strange behavior of DEFINE with equal-sign. Re: Strange behavior of DEFINE with equal-sign. Re: Strange behavior of DEFINE with equal-sign. Re: Strange behavior of DEFINE with equal-sign. Re: Strange behavior of DEFINE with equal-sign. Re: Strange behavior of DEFINE with equal-sign Re: [CSWB] Any news?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 17:48:27 GMT  From: dittman@dittman.net & Subject: Re: Anyone know David Cathey?% Message-ID: <LJu1g.18$gt.17@trnddc04>    davidc@montagar.com wrote: > Dave Froble wrote:5 > > The computers are usually Ok.  It's other things.  > >  > > Man bites dog. > >  > > Sink clogs up.  B > Well, yesterday we've had rolling blackouts through North Texas.E > Keeping OpenVMS up isn't the problem - it's keeping everything else E I live near David and the blackouts didn't hit my house but brownouts C did.  That caused the window AC I have for my computer room to trip E the breaker it was on.  I gave up and powered off enough stuff so the ! house AC provided enough cooling.      --   Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 13:52:13 -0400 ) From: "Ken Robinson" <kenrbnsn@gmail.com>  Subject: Re: F$getqui H Message-ID: <7dd80f60604191052p5179c0f8s1ff917da0be2ebaf@mail.gmail.com>  3 On 19 Apr 2006 10:11:05 -0700, etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk ' <etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk> wrote (in part):  > D > Alternatively, have your procedure create and output file then getH > another job to check for the presence of the file every so often.  Not: > an immediate notification, but a kludge that might work.  C Or create a temporary file, write any messages to it, then send the > temporary file at the end of your script if you've written any* messages to it, then delete the temp file.   Ken    ------------------------------    Date: 19 Apr 2006 11:46:24 -0700- From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net>  Subject: Re: F$getqui C Message-ID: <1145472384.206868.193850@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    Ken Robinson wrote: 5 > On 19 Apr 2006 10:11:05 -0700, etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk ) > <etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk> wrote (in part):  > > F > > Alternatively, have your procedure create and output file then getJ > > another job to check for the presence of the file every so often.  Not< > > an immediate notification, but a kludge that might work. > E > Or create a temporary file, write any messages to it, then send the @ > temporary file at the end of your script if you've written any, > messages to it, then delete the temp file. >  > Ken   E Or, build an "array" of problem queues and job counts. Then loop back . through the array at the end to send the mail: ...  $ problems = 0 $QLOOP1: $ IF job_number .gt. 140 $  THEN  $    Pque'QUEUE_NUMBER' = qname % $    Pjobs'QUEUE_NUMBER' = job_number  $    Problems = Problems + 1 $  ENDIF ... 
 $exit_section 
 $ IF problems  $  THEN  ...loop and send the mail.   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Apr 2006 11:54:21 -0700% From: "Eddie" <eddie.camaroto@va.gov>  Subject: Re: F$getqui C Message-ID: <1145472860.991842.259930@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   D Thank you all for your help.  Through your suggestions I was able toD complete the task at hand.  I ended up writing the file to an outputG file, appending all data, then mailing it off at the end of the program - to get around the SMTP problem with F$GETQUI.    Thank you,   Eddie    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 15:58:50 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>! Subject: Re: Free rz26s and rz28s 6 Message-ID: <4446A48A.F1BF1AC6@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   "Dr. Dweeb" wrote: > G > But I think the RZ28 was the largest device supported for the Jensen,  > so I would like one please :)   F I bought RZ29B's off eBay and have my Jensen running with five of them in a BA350 shelf. VMS V7.2-2.   % ...or did you mean as far as booting?    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 15:30:59 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>5 Subject: Re: How does a fix become a published patch? 6 Message-ID: <44469E03.1EABEBEB@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Roger Fraser wrote:  > D > "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspringdot.com> wrote in messageW > news:rdeininger-1904060649070001@dialup-4.233.149.137.dial1.manchester1.level3.net... 7 > > In article <+PK+6abhVeVy@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 0 > > koehler@eisner.aspm.encompasserve.org wrote: > > K > >>In article <op.s7wdb3iizgicya@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com>  > >>writes:  > >>> , > >>> BTW,  is 7.3 the last release for VAX? > >> > >>    Sigh.   Yes. > > 0 > > HP has NOT said so.  It is an open question. > > M > > The 8.2 VAX release was "postponed".  Unofficially, it's probably fair to N > > say it's been cancelled at this point.  At this point, a VAX release wouldI > > probably be V8.3 or later.  Unless it turned out to be V7.4, to avoid & > > changing the major version number. > > L > > Note that there is NOT a VAX V8.3 currently scheduled to ship with Alpha > > and Integrity V8.3 > > J > > VMS management does revisit the question of another VAX release fairlyM > > often.  There is virtually no customer demand.  That is of course subject  > > to change. > > H > > There is some demand for feature enhancements within V7.3, mostly toH > > maintain cluster compatibility with Alpha.  These are addressed on a > > case-by-case basis. N > This would definitely be useful for me! We have some applications which mustM > stay on VAX as there is no method of re-building. However, they do not rely J > on internal data structures and VAX upgrades are not (certainly have not > been since V4.7) a problem.   F Have you attempted to run them through VEST to make them run on Alpha,& and thence through AEST to get to I64?  ? Except for some peripheral support issues (Qbus and such), most E Integrity machines run at least as fast as all but the fastest VAXes,  AFAIK.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 15:32:55 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>5 Subject: Re: How does a fix become a published patch? 6 Message-ID: <44469E77.D3A82406@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Rob Brooks wrote:  > ' > "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.com> writes: 8 > > On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 03:49:09 -0700, Robert Deininger > I > >> There is some demand for feature enhancements within V7.3, mostly to I > >> maintain cluster compatibility with Alpha.  These are addressed on a  > >> case-by-case basis. > > K > > When I posed the question I was (selfishly) thinking about what I would 4 > > like to see, and HBMM would be nice and TCPIP5.6 > E > I can say with pretty much 100% confidence that you will absolutely ' > never, ever see HBMM for OpenVMS VAX.  > O > There are many technical reasons for this; the biggest hurdle is that OpenVMS % > VAX cannot maintain master bitmaps.  > M > This goes back to the minicopy project, where VAXes can contribute to write K > bitmaps that exist on Alpha systems, but VAXes themselves cannot have the 8 > master copy, nor can they perform minicopy operations.  E Would violate any rules of propriety to give us a clue as to why that  is?    SCS latency, perhaps?    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 16:09:33 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>5 Subject: Re: How does a fix become a published patch? 6 Message-ID: <4446A70D.602C1FC7@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > "David J. Dachtera" wrote:Q > > > This goes back to the minicopy project, where VAXes can contribute to write O > > > bitmaps that exist on Alpha systems, but VAXes themselves cannot have the < > > > master copy, nor can they perform minicopy operations. > > I > > Would violate any rules of propriety to give us a clue as to why that  > > is?  > J > I think it was explained before. The VAX versions of VMS don't have full > support of minicopy.   Why?   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 17:05:20 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 5 Subject: Re: How does a fix become a published patch? , Message-ID: <4446A607.754BB2EC@teksavvy.com>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:O > > This goes back to the minicopy project, where VAXes can contribute to write M > > bitmaps that exist on Alpha systems, but VAXes themselves cannot have the : > > master copy, nor can they perform minicopy operations. > G > Would violate any rules of propriety to give us a clue as to why that  > is?     H I think it was explained before. The VAX versions of VMS don't have fullF support of minicopy. Just like VAX version of DCL is now devoid of all< the neat things Guido has added in the last couple of years.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 15:51:15 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>N Subject: Re: Is OpenVMS certified yet for 64-way Hard partitions (GS1280 M64).6 Message-ID: <4446A2C3.25F84D6D@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   "Main, Kerry" wrote: >  > > -----Original Message-----I > > From: David J. Dachtera [mailto:djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net] ! > > Sent: April 16, 2006 10:08 PM  > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 9 > > Subject: Re: Is OpenVMS certified yet for 64-way Hard  > > partitions (GS1280 M64). > >  > > "Main, Kerry" wrote: > > > " > > > > -----Original Message-----@ > > > > From: Richard Maher [mailto:maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com]% > > > > Sent: April 15, 2006 11:46 PM ! > > > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com = > > > > Subject: Re: Is OpenVMS certified yet for 64-way Hard   > > > > partitions (GS1280 M64). > > > >  > > > > Hi David,  > > > > D > > > > > Not much to tell. Oracle has evolved from its VMS roots to > > > > a UN*XlandG > > > > > item. It runs within its own "realm", oblivious to O.S.-level  > > > > > clustering.  > > > > A > > > > Yes, yes, yes and I'm also led to believe that it prefers  > > > > total control ofF > > > > virgin disks that have no OS formatting or file system at all. > > > >  > > > > > > > That's UNIX stuff .. Oracle has always supported OpenVMS > > file systems.  > > G > > Well, yes and no. It tolerates the environment, but gets hopelessly # > > balled up on bound volume-sets.  > >  > E > Well, in todays large SAN disk world, I suspect not many Cust's are F > still using bound volumes, but in any event, this sounds like a bug. > What was the error  - Irrecoverable database/filesystem corruption.   5 > and what did Oracle Support state when you reported  > it?   $ Bound volume-sets are not supported.  A > > > In recent 9i and above, it doe require ODS5 file structures  > > on OpenVMS.  > > @ > > Not really a software requirement, but rather the product of > > having been > > > developed in an environment where ODS-2's restrictions are > > not the norm. G > > (Mixed case filenames, multiple dots, deep directories, and so on.)  > >  > I > ODS5 does provide the newer features that you stated, but I am not sure  > what the point was.   H That ODS-2 does not. Rather than re-work the product to observe ODS-2 asF the "lowest common (filesystem) denominator", Oracle choose to exploitA ODS-5's looser restrictions and live instead within those bounds.   B > Btw - bit of misc history -  Oracle Server started with OpenVMS.  3 ...which I am aware of, as evidence in other posts.    > Oracle" > 7 cluster actually used VMS DLM.  F I think it may have been near this timeframe that Oracle gained accessH to the DLM code and began building it into their own product, eventually0 enabling "Oracle clusters" on non-VMS platforms.  ' > It was only Oracle8 when the parallel @ > option (Oracle Parallel Server - OPS) was introduced for other > platforms.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 17:48:30 GMT , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>' Subject: Re: new DST routines for C-RTL 2 Message-ID: <OJu1g.6551$Y_2.1784@news.cpqcorp.net>   Bob Koehler wrote:  J >    And now all of us stuck on other releases will hope that our code was> >    never updated to use gmtime() after it became functional.  F    I've been informed the correct term is "daylight saving time", and < not "savings."  The text of the ECO has a misspelling there.  D    It's more than gmtime() calls, the US daylight saving time rules , change also hits DTSS and some other pieces.  G    Updates for the other supported releases are underway, and tweaking  H DST settings in V7.3 and later is comparatively easy.  (See the FAQ for  some related details.)  F    This change also moves the US up into relative parity with most of I the rest of the world, as most folks in the US haven't been faced one of  E these rules changes in far too long -- these DST rules changes occur  G regularly throughout the world.  The Australians seem to have advanced  F the state of the art in adaptive DST management, and now seem to have B management of these rules changes down to a science, for instance.   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Apr 2006 21:36:10 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) ' Subject: Re: new DST routines for C-RTL 3 Message-ID: <baah18Pq46vo@eisner.encompasserve.org>   q In article <nfqicZweUmTi@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:   J >    And now all of us stuck on other releases will hope that our code was> >    never updated to use gmtime() after it became functional.  < Or continue our wise course of running the computers on GMT.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 00:08:12 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ' Subject: Re: new DST routines for C-RTL + Message-ID: <4447090A.C3B2AFB@teksavvy.com>    Ian Miller wrote:  > H > I thought it strange a CRTL patch was required as well as a TDF patch. >  > there is more info at $ > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/dst.html  C Is there reasonable certaintly that the USA is actually going to go F ahead with this ?   Or will they delay implementation once politiciansH realise what the actual impact will be ? (like their biometric passportsG that were to have been required before the technollogy even existed but $ of course postponed at last minute).   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Apr 2006 11:40:14 -0700% From: "vinay" <vinay_exams@yahoo.com> Y Subject: Obtain MCSE,MCSD,MCSA,MCDBA without exams(Pay after check results)100% passing g C Message-ID: <1145472014.584140.112710@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>    FRIENDS 1 Here i m going to tell you the fastest way to get E MICROSOFT,CISCO,COMPTIA,ORACLE,SOLAIS certified without efforts......   ; friends i have five vue and prometric testing sites here in D INDIA.......so, i will do the exams on the behalf of the candidates,> make them pass and charge some extra amount from them.........G see i need ur some details then i will book ur exam on my testing site,       @ make u pass in exam then send scoresheet to you....by using thatG scoresheet u will easily able to check ur exam status online on related        official secure site..... A when u will check ur exam status online only then send me payment + through western union money transfer.......     * what details i need from the candidates :-    D 1. candidate full name(that he wants to appear on his scoresheet and certificate)4 2. candidate full address(for certificatio delivery)F 3. candidate passport or driving liciense scan copy(as photo id proof)? 4. candidate landline as well as cell number(with country code)  5. correct exam numbers.......    A so, if anyone is really intrested in this then jsut mail me these 3 details then he will be certified within a week....      rates :-    2 any microsoft exam  :- 300 usd(including exam fee)( ccna exam :- 600 usd(including exam fee)- ccnp each exam :- 700 usd(inlcduing exam fee)     . so.if anyone intrested in this just mail me at@ vinay_vue_prometric@yahoo.com or vinay_vue_prometric@hotmail.com4 u can also catch me on chat on my both messengers... thanzzzzzzzzzz friends   vinay    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 20:25:03 +0200 + From: Marc Schlensog <fishtank.spam@web.de> # Subject: Re: OT: Sparc not dead yet : Message-ID: <20060419202503.7cbdc4b6.fishtank.spam@web.de>  " On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 21:49:56 -04004 "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote:   > JF Mezei wrote:  >  > > Dave Froble wrote: > > B > >>There you go again.  Has Sun issued a statement that they will/ > >>eventually give up on SPARC that I missed?   > >  > >  > > G > > No, they have not. But there has also been lots of speculation from C > > the press about Sun eventually going all 8086 once it scales to B > > replace Sparcs. HP has issued FUD about SPARC being abandonnedG > > eventually, just like SUN has issued FUD about IA64 being stillborn $ > > and eventually to be abandonned. > >  > D > And what is the maximum number of 8086 family CPUs that will work 2 > together in one box?   I've heard of up to four!  G You've heard wrong. Or ppl have told you wrong. Iwill and Tyan both can . deliver 8x dual-core systems. Yes, in one box.  F > One of the good things about SPARC is that you can get up to 64 CPUs > per box.     More.   : > Not to mention that a 440MHz UltraSPARC II will blow the > doors off a 440 MHz pentium   B I/O-wise: most definitely. Calculationwise: Hardly. But what's theC point? Even the core-architecture, which is clocked relatively slow C compared to Netburst, is @ >2GHz. Where is Sparc right now? Niagara F clocked at ~1GHz, tuned for raw I/O? How about Sparc III? Did they hitD 1.5GHz already? Heck, a 667MHz EV67 blows away a 900MHz USIII, AMD64D performs about as well as Alpha in SPECint clockwise, a bit worse inF SPECfp, Intel's core architecture performs a little better than AMD64.G So where does this leave Sparcs? Most likely not in the realm of number / crunchers. They never were, they never will be. E About SUN abandonning Sparc: a couple of months back it really looked F like Sparc was being pushed from the mid-range to the high-end by x86.@ A couple of months back things didn't look all too well for SUN.   Marc   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 17:01:54 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> E Subject: Re: Partitioned cluster question (reboot during lost quorum) , Message-ID: <4446A53A.B537A7F2@teksavvy.com>  F OK, many thanks to everyone. I think I have a much better grasp of the  EXPECTED_VOTES SYSGEN parameter.  E So the gist of it is to set every node'S EXPECTED vote to ensure that F they cannot boot alone if disconnected from the ethernet. And manuallyG set it to "1" TEMPORARILY if you really need a node to boot alone/first H before allowing others to join.  (consider the case when a node is knownF to have the valid copy of shadow disk members, so you want that one toD boot first and mount them first so they become source of future copy operations isntead of targets).    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 23:15:07 GMT , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>E Subject: Re: Partitioned cluster question (reboot during lost quorum) 2 Message-ID: <%vz1g.6569$g63.1012@news.cpqcorp.net>   JF Mezei wrote:   G > So the gist of it is to set every node'S EXPECTED vote to ensure that H > they cannot boot alone if disconnected from the ethernet. And manuallyI > set it to "1" TEMPORARILY if you really need a node to boot alone/first ! > before allowing others to join.   0    Y'all are trying to get "creative" again, eh?  E    If you want to boot outside the cluster, then I tend to prefer to  ; avoid enabling NISCS_LOAD_PEA0 and I don't load VAXCLUSTER.   ) > (consider the case when a node is known H > to have the valid copy of shadow disk members, so you want that one toF > boot first and mount them first so they become source of future copy! > operations isntead of targets).   I    Consider the last time this has happened, too.  I've been at this for  H over a decade, and I can't recall ever having run into this case.  As a H rule, the node with the valid copy will have the highest instantiation, I and will be the source for the shadow copy operation, or there have been  G other "creative" activities with the shadow set members.  When you get  G (incautiously) "creative" with shadowing -- just like with the cluster  C vote-related system parameters -- you can end up corrupting a disk.   F    Assuming I could not simply take the other shadow set member disks I off-line (which is what I try do when I get "creative" with shadow sets,  G in addition to managing the MSCPMOUNT.COM or startup procedures around  H the MOUNT operations), I'd confirm the bootstrap state, and I'd confirm < that all other nodes are down (hard), and I'd then drop the F EXPECTED_VOTES setting to match the local voting node's VOTES setting H during conversational bootstrap, and I'd then (try to) remember to then D clear WRITESYSPARAMS, and then and only then complete the bootstrap.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 21:02:54 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> E Subject: Re: Partitioned cluster question (reboot during lost quorum) + Message-ID: <4446DDA7.874E035@teksavvy.com>    Hoff Hoffman wrote: F >    If you want to boot outside the cluster, then I tend to prefer to= > avoid enabling NISCS_LOAD_PEA0 and I don't load VAXCLUSTER.   E No, the idea is to be able to boot one node first before you bring in H the other ones, so that first one has to form the cluster and the others join in later.  J >    Consider the last time this has happened, too.  I've been at this forC > over a decade, and I can't recall ever having run into this case.   B What I've come to realise is that it is very hard to predict every possible problem/situation.   H The ability to find solutions out of some unpredicted situation requiresH good understanding of the clustering process and full understanding yourE configuration/applications so that you can "cheat" the config without  jeoperdizing data integrity.  E VMS cannot make any assumptions when it loses connection with another E node. It could be ethernet down, it could be the other node down. VMS H (rightly)  protects against worse case scenario.  But the system managerG can obtain additional information (such as confirmation that the others B nodes are in fact powered down) which then allows him to gauge the= situation and consider  that the first node can be up without G jeoperdizing data integrity, at which point knowledge on how to "cheat" F the predefined rules comes in handy to get out of that situation. (and! later restore the safe settings).   P >  As a  rule, the node with the valid copy will have the highest instantiation,7 > and will be the source for the shadow copy operation,   F Your "as a rule" applies well when all disks are local and if you haveH access to one disk, you have access to all disks. (aka, you always mountE all members of a shadowset together in the same mount command, so the F shadowing software can make the proper determination of which physical$ disk has the more recent valid copy.  C But when shadowset members appear gradually as nodes boot, then the H order in which you boot the nodes becomes critical to ensuring the rightG physical drive is first mounted into the shadowset.  Knowledge of which H physical drive has the valid contents comes from knowing the config, theH exact state of the cluster before the mishap and its current state. AKA:H full situation awareness. And it isn't something which VMS can ascertain6 by itself. It takes a human to diagnose the situation.  D So knowing how expected_votes works, means you can cheat the defaultH config to allow one node to boot first when you know this is what has to be done.   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Apr 2006 10:36:44 -0700# From: "chaos" <dciobanu@rogers.com> - Subject: Re: SoyMail & insufficient privilege C Message-ID: <1145468204.082604.288820@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   C I got it up and running. Now we'll see if somebody else likes it as 
 much as I do.   " Thank you very much for your help.  
 Best regards,    Dumitru    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 04:58:46 +0930 * From: Mark Daniel <mark.daniel@vsm.com.au>- Subject: Re: SoyMail & insufficient privilege 0 Message-ID: <124d7biaka2mr7d@corp.supernews.com>   chaos wrote:E > I got it up and running. Now we'll see if somebody else likes it as  > much as I do.  > $ > Thank you very much for your help. >  > Best regards,  > 	 > Dumitru   0 Excellent.  I'm sure they will.  You're welcome.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 21:48:00 GMT 1 From: Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> M Subject: Re: Star Coupler failures (was: Re: CI Path Errors (was Re: Errors)) 1 Message-ID: <key1g.6562$ja3.436@news.cpqcorp.net>    Michael Moroney wrote:I > Wasn't there an electronic amplifier needed for the up-to-32-node multi  > star coupler configuration?   B CISCE (CI Star Coupler Extender). Added 8 nodes to a base 16-node G passive star coupler, and two of these could be used for a total of 32   nodes.   > How many of those were sold?  G Reports are there were only 250 built, and that about 50 were scrapped  & when the Westminster plant was closed.   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Apr 2006 13:37:14 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 7 Subject: Re: Strange behavior of DEFINE with equal-sign 3 Message-ID: <NY2cH4wzFP7L@eisner.encompasserve.org>   r In article <1145465190.650018.44020@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> writes: >  > $a = "hello how are you  > $define test &a  > $show logical a 3 > %SHOW-S-NOTRAN, no translation for logical name A  > G > What part of that isn't "supported"?  "&" substitution is certainly a D > _supported_ "feature" and (at least my copy of) the FM explains itI > quite well. Using SHOW LOGICAL to check the value of a symbol must have . > been a typo , though. Did you mean to write:  9    Yes, that's a typo.  It should be "$show logical test"    > $show logical test5 >    "TEST" = "hello how are you" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)  >   H   OK, the unsupported but known to work part is the failure to close theG   quote on the first line.  End of line automagically closes the quote.    ------------------------------    Date: 19 Apr 2006 11:51:12 -0700- From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> 7 Subject: Re: Strange behavior of DEFINE with equal-sign C Message-ID: <1145472672.556353.212650@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    Bob Koehler wrote:t > In article <1145465190.650018.44020@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> writes: > >  > > $a = "hello how are you  > > $define test &a  > > $show logical a 5 > > %SHOW-S-NOTRAN, no translation for logical name A  > > I > > What part of that isn't "supported"?  "&" substitution is certainly a F > > _supported_ "feature" and (at least my copy of) the FM explains itK > > quite well. Using SHOW LOGICAL to check the value of a symbol must have 0 > > been a typo , though. Did you mean to write: > ; >    Yes, that's a typo.  It should be "$show logical test"  >  > > $show logical test7 > >    "TEST" = "hello how are you" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)  > >  > J >   OK, the unsupported but known to work part is the failure to close theI >   quote on the first line.  End of line automagically closes the quote.   F Ah ha. Yes, that's always bugged me because I see it so often; even inF "official" code. I figure people who don't close their quotes probably% don't wipe their butt's, either ;-)))    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 15:21:47 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>7 Subject: Re: Strange behavior of DEFINE with equal-sign 6 Message-ID: <44469BDB.290691E8@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:  >  > Bob Koehler wrote: >  > > : > >    Try this (note the change from the previous posts): > >  > >    $a = "hello how are you > >    $define test &a > >    $show logical a > > F > >    In fact, what I've just shown you is a well known _unsupported_ > >    "feature" of DCL. > >  > I >    Though ampersand-based symbol substitution itself is fully supported J > and documented.  (I ended up having to add it into the DCL book, too, asH > that syntax became necessary when working with the context of the PIPEH > command.  I hadn't wanted to, as the addition required a correspondingI > discussion of the two passes that occur within DCL symbol substitution, J > and I expected that would layer complexity and confusion into an already > baroque discussion.)   DCL is baroquen?   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 16:36:38 -0400  From: norm.raphael@metso.com7 Subject: Re: Strange behavior of DEFINE with equal-sign Q Message-ID: <OF085482AF.556870CE-ON85257155.006DD6F1-85257155.0071371B@metso.com>   H "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> wrote on 04/19/2006 02:51:12 PM:   > Bob Koehler wrote:F > > In article <1145465190.650018.44020@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,1 > "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> writes:  > > >  > > > $a = "hello how are you  > > > $define test &a  > > > $show logical a 7 > > > %SHOW-S-NOTRAN, no translation for logical name A  > > > K > > > What part of that isn't "supported"?  "&" substitution is certainly a H > > > _supported_ "feature" and (at least my copy of) the FM explains itH > > > quite well. Using SHOW LOGICAL to check the value of a symbol must have2 > > > been a typo , though. Did you mean to write: > > = > >    Yes, that's a typo.  It should be "$show logical test"  > >  > > > $show logical test9 > > >    "TEST" = "hello how are you" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)  > > >  > > H > >   OK, the unsupported but known to work part is the failure to close the K > >   quote on the first line.  End of line automagically closes the quote.  > H > Ah ha. Yes, that's always bugged me because I see it so often; even inH > "official" code. I figure people who don't close their quotes probably' > don't wipe their butt's, either ;-)))  >    ..then how do you reconcile  $ name="Doug. $ write sys$output "Hello, my name is ''name'!  D which as two instances of single double-quotes (bug which works) andF one instance of double single-quote/single single-quote (an odd numberD which you would put the author into the group above with bad hygene)" which looks wrong but is required!   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 15:23:26 -0500 @ From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>7 Subject: Re: Strange behavior of DEFINE with equal-sign 6 Message-ID: <44469C3E.B338E3C5@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>   Doug Phillips wrote: >  > Bob Koehler wrote:v > > In article <1145465190.650018.44020@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> writes: > > >  > > > $a = "hello how are you  > > > $define test &a  > > > $show logical a 7 > > > %SHOW-S-NOTRAN, no translation for logical name A  > > > K > > > What part of that isn't "supported"?  "&" substitution is certainly a H > > > _supported_ "feature" and (at least my copy of) the FM explains itM > > > quite well. Using SHOW LOGICAL to check the value of a symbol must have 2 > > > been a typo , though. Did you mean to write: > > = > >    Yes, that's a typo.  It should be "$show logical test"  > >  > > > $show logical test9 > > >    "TEST" = "hello how are you" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)  > > >  > > L > >   OK, the unsupported but known to work part is the failure to close theK > >   quote on the first line.  End of line automagically closes the quote.  > H > Ah ha. Yes, that's always bugged me because I see it so often; even inH > "official" code. I figure people who don't close their quotes probably' > don't wipe their butt's, either ;-)))    Their butt's what?  E ...or did you want the plural form, without the apostrophe instead of 1 the singular possessive form with the apostrophe?    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Apr 2006 13:28:03 -0700- From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> 7 Subject: Re: Strange behavior of DEFINE with equal-sign C Message-ID: <1145478483.862967.165600@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>    David J. Dachtera wrote: > Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > >  > > Bob Koehler wrote: > >  > > > < > > >    Try this (note the change from the previous posts): > > >   > > >    $a = "hello how are you > > >    $define test &a > > >    $show logical a > > > H > > >    In fact, what I've just shown you is a well known _unsupported_ > > >    "feature" of DCL. > > >  > > K > >    Though ampersand-based symbol substitution itself is fully supported L > > and documented.  (I ended up having to add it into the DCL book, too, asJ > > that syntax became necessary when working with the context of the PIPEJ > > command.  I hadn't wanted to, as the addition required a correspondingK > > discussion of the two passes that occur within DCL symbol substitution, L > > and I expected that would layer complexity and confusion into an already > > baroque discussion.) >  > DCL is baroquen? >   / Someone baroqued it and now it's all fugued up!    ------------------------------    Date: 19 Apr 2006 13:39:58 -0700- From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> 7 Subject: Re: Strange behavior of DEFINE with equal-sign C Message-ID: <1145479198.481020.133270@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    David J. Dachtera wrote: > Doug Phillips wrote: > >  > > Bob Koehler wrote:x > > > In article <1145465190.650018.44020@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> writes: > > > >  > > > > $a = "hello how are you  > > > > $define test &a  > > > > $show logical a 9 > > > > %SHOW-S-NOTRAN, no translation for logical name A  > > > > M > > > > What part of that isn't "supported"?  "&" substitution is certainly a J > > > > _supported_ "feature" and (at least my copy of) the FM explains itO > > > > quite well. Using SHOW LOGICAL to check the value of a symbol must have 4 > > > > been a typo , though. Did you mean to write: > > > ? > > >    Yes, that's a typo.  It should be "$show logical test"  > > >  > > > > $show logical test; > > > >    "TEST" = "hello how are you" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)  > > > >  > > > N > > >   OK, the unsupported but known to work part is the failure to close theM > > >   quote on the first line.  End of line automagically closes the quote.  > > J > > Ah ha. Yes, that's always bugged me because I see it so often; even inJ > > "official" code. I figure people who don't close their quotes probably) > > don't wipe their butt's, either ;-)))  >  > Their butt's what? >     D You know, that thing that's there. Or, in c.o.v.: You no, that thing thats their.   Sorry Steven, I mean David;-)   G > ...or did you want the plural form, without the apostrophe instead of 3 > the singular possessive form with the apostrophe?  >   G Would you buy it if I said that the little "," after "butt's" was meant $ to be a graphic rather than a comma?   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Apr 2006 13:48:08 -0700- From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> 7 Subject: Re: Strange behavior of DEFINE with equal-sign C Message-ID: <1145479688.551072.158960@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>    norm.raphael@metso.com wrote: J > "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> wrote on 04/19/2006 02:51:12 PM: >  > > Bob Koehler wrote:H > > > In article <1145465190.650018.44020@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,3 > > "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> writes:  > > > >  > > > > $a = "hello how are you  > > > > $define test &a  > > > > $show logical a 9 > > > > %SHOW-S-NOTRAN, no translation for logical name A  > > > > M > > > > What part of that isn't "supported"?  "&" substitution is certainly a J > > > > _supported_ "feature" and (at least my copy of) the FM explains itJ > > > > quite well. Using SHOW LOGICAL to check the value of a symbol must > have4 > > > > been a typo , though. Did you mean to write: > > > ? > > >    Yes, that's a typo.  It should be "$show logical test"  > > >  > > > > $show logical test; > > > >    "TEST" = "hello how are you" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)  > > > >  > > > J > > >   OK, the unsupported but known to work part is the failure to close > the M > > >   quote on the first line.  End of line automagically closes the quote.  > > J > > Ah ha. Yes, that's always bugged me because I see it so often; even inJ > > "official" code. I figure people who don't close their quotes probably) > > don't wipe their butt's, either ;-)))  > >  >  > ..then how do you reconcile  > $ name="Doug0 > $ write sys$output "Hello, my name is ''name'! > F > which as two instances of single double-quotes (bug which works) andH > one instance of double single-quote/single single-quote (an odd numberF > which you would put the author into the group above with bad hygene)$ > which looks wrong but is required!  F Well, I can't reconcile it. The two lines have missing closing quotes.G The single-single symbol single example of symbol substitution within a 6 string is correct and logical and works as documented.   BTW, Hi, my name is Doug, too:)    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 17:30:38 -0400  From: norm.raphael@metso.com7 Subject: Re: Strange behavior of DEFINE with equal-sign Q Message-ID: <OF7A192AD4.780532A7-ON85257155.0075935F-85257155.0076297A@metso.com>   H "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> wrote on 04/19/2006 04:48:08 PM:   > norm.raphael@metso.com wrote: H > > "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> wrote on 04/19/2006 02:51:12 PM:  > >  > > > Bob Koehler wrote:J > > > > In article <1145465190.650018.44020@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,5 > > > "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> writes: 	 > > > > > ! > > > > > $a = "hello how are you  > > > > > $define test &a  > > > > > $show logical a ; > > > > > %SHOW-S-NOTRAN, no translation for logical name A 	 > > > > > C > > > > > What part of that isn't "supported"?  "&" substitution is  certainly a I > > > > > _supported_ "feature" and (at least my copy of) the FM explains  itG > > > > > quite well. Using SHOW LOGICAL to check the value of a symbol  must > > have6 > > > > > been a typo , though. Did you mean to write: > > > > A > > > >    Yes, that's a typo.  It should be "$show logical test"  > > > >  > > > > > $show logical test= > > > > >    "TEST" = "hello how are you" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE) 	 > > > > >  > > > > F > > > >   OK, the unsupported but known to work part is the failure to close  > > the H > > > >   quote on the first line.  End of line automagically closes the quote. > > > I > > > Ah ha. Yes, that's always bugged me because I see it so often; even  inC > > > "official" code. I figure people who don't close their quotes  probably+ > > > don't wipe their butt's, either ;-)))  > > >  > >  > > ..then how do you reconcile  > > $ name="Doug2 > > $ write sys$output "Hello, my name is ''name'! > > I > > which has two instances of single double-quotes (bug which works) and J > > one instance of double single-quote/single single-quote (an odd numberH > > which you would put the author into the group above with bad hygene)& > > which looks wrong but is required! > H > Well, I can't reconcile it. The two lines have missing closing quotes.   Indeed they do.   I > The single-single symbol single example of symbol substitution within a  > string is correct   
 Indeed it is.   
 > and logical   @ No, it is not.  What is logical is 'name' outside double-quotes,B and ''name'' inside double-quotes.  Dropping the last single-quote is not logical.   E OTOH, IIRC, in writing dialog there is a double-quote at the start of E each paragraph but only at the end of the last paragraph, so there is C a sort of precident for not having the trailing double quote at the ; end of the line, although I doubt that was a consideration.   ; By the way, FORTRAN 66 syntax is not involved, either  ;) .    > and works as documented.   Indeed it does.  > ! > BTW, Hi, my name is Doug, too:)   D Reminds me of the TV show "Soap" where El Puerco had three henchmen:( Juan one, Juan two, and Juan three, too.   >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 17:08:45 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 7 Subject: Re: Strange behavior of DEFINE with equal-sign , Message-ID: <4446A6D4.38DD1CC0@teksavvy.com>  + > > > don't wipe their butt's, either ;-)))  > >  > > Their butt's what?    = Actually it was a type: "don't wipe their butt's ether :-)))"   F I.E. they need to clean the ethernet plug on their butts to ensure theC connector makes good contact for full throughput and ensure packets E don't get tangled up or retained for long periods. (especially if you D have big packet support, you don't want them in a queue waiting long& before they can transit out of there).   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Apr 2006 15:14:18 -0700- From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> 7 Subject: Re: Strange behavior of DEFINE with equal-sign C Message-ID: <1145484858.585850.260120@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>    norm.raphael@metso.com wrote: J > "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> wrote on 04/19/2006 04:48:08 PM:! > > norm.raphael@metso.com wrote: ! > > > ..then how do you reconcile  > > > $ name="Doug4 > > > $ write sys$output "Hello, my name is ''name'! > > > K > > > which has two instances of single double-quotes (bug which works) and L > > > one instance of double single-quote/single single-quote (an odd numberJ > > > which you would put the author into the group above with bad hygene)( > > > which looks wrong but is required! > > J > > Well, I can't reconcile it. The two lines have missing closing quotes. >  > Indeed they do.  > K > > The single-single symbol single example of symbol substitution within a  > > string is correct  >  > Indeed it is.  >  > > and logical  > B > No, it is not.  What is logical is 'name' outside double-quotes,D > and ''name'' inside double-quotes.  Dropping the last single-quote > is not logical.  >   F Well, it seems logical to me to need a special parsing signal like twoE single quotes, although I guess it should seem symbolical rather than  logical.   > > # > > BTW, Hi, my name is Doug, too:)  > F > Reminds me of the TV show "Soap" where El Puerco had three henchmen:* > Juan one, Juan two, and Juan three, too. >   E Or "this is my brother Darryl and this is my other brother Darryl" on B the Bob Newhart show. Wow, I had forgotten about the TV show Soap. Funny stuff.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 22:59:33 GMT , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>7 Subject: Re: Strange behavior of DEFINE with equal-sign 2 Message-ID: <phz1g.6567$T43.4832@news.cpqcorp.net>   Doug Phillips wrote:  1 > Someone baroqued it and now it's all fugued up!       Not my forte.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 22:58:38 GMT , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>7 Subject: Re: Strange behavior of DEFINE with equal-sign 2 Message-ID: <ygz1g.6566$T43.4060@news.cpqcorp.net>   David J. Dachtera wrote:   > DCL is baroquen?  I    Yes, DCL is baroque and there are various areas where the interpreter  H is also quite definitely "baroquen" as you put it, and yes, there are a F number of cases where I specifically avoid programming with DCL.  And H yes, changing and tightening and correcting DCL, as  Guy has definitely H observed, can make for hazardous coding if for no other reason than due E to multiple internal and external application dependencies on odd or  $ undocumented or marginal behaviours.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 21:25:41 +0200 3 From: Michael Unger <spam.to.unger@spamgourmet.com>  Subject: Re: [CSWB] Any news? + Message-ID: <4anha7Ftk9d4U1@individual.net>   7 On 2006-04-19 19:46, "Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER" wrote:    > To the insiders  > L > When can we expect CSWB V1.7-13 (MOZILLA V1.7.13 is knocking on the door)?  C When (and where) have you heared it "knocking"? The Mozilla website G <http://www.mozilla.org/releases/> still lists v1.7.12 (of 21-Sep-2005)  as the last release published.  G The DFN-CERT mailing list reports multiple vulnerabilities referring to C <http://www.us-cert.gov/cas/techalerts/TA06-107A.html> which itself H refers to <http://www.mozilla.org/security/announce/> (v1.7.12 and below of Mozilla are affected).   O > When can we expect FIREFOX _and_ THUNDERBIRD (and Chatzilla and HTML editing) 1 > on VMS (MOZILLA is declared dead with V1.7.13)?   ? The "SeaMonkey" (new "suite") route might be an alternative ...    > [...]    Michael    --  ; Real names enhance the probability of getting real answers. 5 My e-mail account at DECUS Munich is no longer valid.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.218 ************************                                                                                