1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 23 Apr 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 225       Contents: Re: DIR/SIZE field to small ) Re: FA: MicroVAX 3100-30 Parts Machine NR * Re: HP Storageworks Arrays are Bulletproof* Re: HP Storageworks Arrays are Bulletproof* Re: HP Storageworks Arrays are Bulletproof* Re: HP Storageworks Arrays are Bulletproof* Re: HP Storageworks Arrays are Bulletproof* Re: HP Storageworks Arrays are Bulletproof* Re: HP Storageworks Arrays are Bulletproof* Re: HP Storageworks Arrays are Bulletproof Re: OT: Sparc not dead yet) Possible solution to TLZ07/TLZ09 problems & Re: required patches for other patches vws   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 19:30:48 +0300 7 From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@hp.com> $ Subject: Re: DIR/SIZE field to small, Message-ID: <444babbb$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  B "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@hp.com> wrote in message$ news:444b7ac0@usenet01.boi.hp.com... > E > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> wrote in  message 2 > news:444AE2B2.EF9FE441@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net... > > Dave Froble wrote: > > >  > > > David J. Dachtera wrote: > > > > Tom Linden wrote:  > > > > > > > > >>I backed up some drives to a SAN and wanted to see how > > > >>large the savesets were  > > > >>. > > > >>HAFNER> dir/size $1$DGA3:[000000]*.SAV > > > >>" > > > >>Directory $1$DGA3:[000000] > > > >>$ > > > >>DECPLI.SAV;2         *******$ > > > >>ODIN_0731.SAV;1      ******* > > > >>* > > > >>Total of 2 files, 29625687 blocks. > > > >>G > > > >>HAFNER> pipe anal/rms/sum $1$DGA3:[000000]*.SAV | sear sys$pipe  blocksC > > > >>         Blocks Allocated: 16119500, Default Extend Size: 0 C > > > >>         Blocks Allocated: 13506287, Default Extend Size: 0  > > > >>1 > > > >>This is on 7.3-2 but same on 8.2 and F8.3  > > > >>& > > > >>I guess 7 digits is the limit. > > > >  > > > > K > > > > Well, as Dave Sneddon points out, you can find info on this in HELP  > > > > DIRECTORY /WIDTH.  > > > >  > > > > Hey, Guy:  > > > > J > > > > How 'bout adding some LNMs for features like this, maybe following > this > > > > pattern: > > > >  > > > > DIRECTORY$WIDTH_field  > > > >  > > > > ...as in...  > > > >  > > > > DIRECTORY$WIDTH_SIZE > > > > " > > > > In LOGIN.COM, users could:( > > > > $ DEFINE DIRECTORY$WIDTH_SIZE 10 > > > > C > > > > In SYLOGICALS.COM or SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM, the SysAdmin could: 4 > > > > $ DEFINE/SYSTEM/EXEC DIRECTORY$WIDTH_SIZE 10 > > > >  > > > > Whaddaya think... ?  > > > >  > > > G > > > I'm not Guy, but with your proposal, you'd still have to define a 1 > > > logical.  What's wrong with something like:  > > > F > > > $ DI            :== directory /size=all /owner_uic /protection -8 > > >                          /width=(file=25,owner=10)F > > > $ din           :== directory /size=all /owner_uic /protection -B > > >                          /width=(file=25,owner=10) /modified > > > /since="-60-00:00"F > > > $ dit           :== directory /size=all /owner_uic /protection -B > > >                          /width=(file=25,owner=10) /modified > /since=TODAYF > > > $ diy           :== directory /size=all /owner_uic /protection -B > > >                          /width=(file=25,owner=10) /modified > > > /since=YESTERDAY > > > 8 > > > Got some wrap on some of those symbol definitions. > > > J > > > These are in my SYLOGIN.COM file, since it's MY system, but could asJ > > > easily be in local LOGIN.COM files on systems that have other users. > > > J > > > No more work, maybe less, and Guy can concentrate on things we don't > > > currently have.  > > K > > It's probably fine so long as you're willing to editing every LOGIN.COM > > > file on the system/cluster, or put these in SYS$SYLOGIN... > > ? > > Then again, the LNM approach could offer an option to allow ; > > DIRECTORY.EXE to modify the definition of, for example, L > > DIRECTORY$WIDTH_SIZE to match the longest string of digits it encountersK > > in the course of normal operations. Would only last for the duration of D > > a boot, but could be saved at SYSHUTDWN time and restored during > > SYSTARTUP_VMS, for example.  > >  > 
 > Good idea !  > K > The logical name will have to translated once and cached in a system cell ? > to avoid frequent translations, I'll it to the post V8.3 list  > 0 > > To quote Prof. Trelawney, "Open your mind!". > F > From no one....please refer to me as "He who shall not be named" ;-)   I meant from now on....DUH ! >  > >  > > --   > > David J Dachtera > > dba DJE Systems  > > http://www.djesys.com/ > > * > > Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page% > > http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/  > > , > > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:# > > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/  > > & > > Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:# > > http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/  > > - > > Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: & > > http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Apr 2006 08:22:56 +01006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)2 Subject: Re: FA: MicroVAX 3100-30 Parts Machine NR, Message-ID: <444b3960$1@news.langstoeger.at>  y In article <444ADAC5.9FB1104A@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@NeOaSrPtAhMlNiOnWk.net> writes: I >I just posted my first auction on eBay. Search for "Microvax" - not many F >hits these days. The URL is too long to post here. This box complainsI >about an unexpected interrupt during the POST and then won't boot. Maybe 3 >someone can fix it, I'm not going to mess with it.   , At which length is the URL too long for you?  > 	http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8800568552   ;-)    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 07:33:16 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> 3 Subject: Re: HP Storageworks Arrays are Bulletproof 4 Message-ID: <EBJ2g.26$fx.5024@news20.bellglobal.com>  - <VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message  * news:00A548B3.04E58B1D@SendSpamHere.ORG...L > In article <am32g.137108$zI1.91227@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>, Alan Greig ! > <greigaln@netscape.net> writes:  >> >>+ >>http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=31165  >>Which begins:  >>I >>HP HAS A TENDENCY to use gun metaphors when talking about their storage 1 >>solutions, and the newest one is 'bulletproof'.  >>F >>Instead of the wussy technical term for it, they went out and shot aF >>hole clean through a half-million dollar Storageworks XP12000 server >>while it was running.  >>J >>The bullet went right through it, but only half way through the fishtankF >>on the other side. That is what you get with .308 rounds, not enough8 >>stopping power vs high-end arrays backed by fishtanks. >>F >>In either case, they literally proved that their Storageworks arraysB >>will take a bullet while streaming video, never missing a frame. >>...... >> >> >>--   >>Alan Greig >  > ( > FFFFF U   U  CCC   K   K    H   H PPPP) > F     U   U C   C  K  K     H   H P   P ) > F     U   U C      K K      H   H P   P ( > FFFF  U   U C      KK       HHHHH PPPP% > F     U   U C      K K      H   H P % > F     U   U C   C  K  K     H   H P % > F      UUU   CCC   K   K    H   H P  > B > Another video demonstrating technology in a technology limiting 
 > *W*e-don't- K > even-want-to-know-you-if *M*icro$uck-is-not-in-your *V*isions WMV format.  >  > --  3 > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker   > VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > 5 >  "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"   K Umm, the name of this product is "XP12000 Disk Array" so I can only assume  M that this product is targeted at the Windows-XP market. If this is true then  M the choice of WMV probably makes sense (although anyone with an eye for open  " technologies would have used MPEG)  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html9 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/openvms_demos.html    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 09:17:07 -0400 ) From: "Ken Robinson" <kenrbnsn@gmail.com> 3 Subject: Re: HP Storageworks Arrays are Bulletproof H Message-ID: <7dd80f60604230617p5851d2c8ka907b22ba7349965@mail.gmail.com>  4 On 4/23/06, Neil Rieck <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote:L > Umm, the name of this product is "XP12000 Disk Array" so I can only assum= e L > that this product is targeted at the Windows-XP market. If this is true t= hen L > the choice of WMV probably makes sense (although anyone with an eye for o= pen $ > technologies would have used MPEG)  D Just because a product has the letters "XP" in its name doesn't meanB it's only intended for WIndowsXP. VMS is a supported OS to be used' with the XP12000 (or XP12k) disk array.    Ken    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 09:46:13 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> 3 Subject: Re: HP Storageworks Arrays are Bulletproof 5 Message-ID: <hyL2g.61$fx.13476@news20.bellglobal.com>   4 "Ken Robinson" <kenrbnsn@gmail.com> wrote in messageB news:7dd80f60604230617p5851d2c8ka907b22ba7349965@mail.gmail.com...4 On 4/23/06, Neil Rieck <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote:F >> Umm, the name of this product is "XP12000 Disk Array" so I can only	 >> assume J >> that this product is targeted at the Windows-XP market. If this is true >> then J >> the choice of WMV probably makes sense (although anyone with an eye for >> open % >> technologies would have used MPEG)  > E >Just because a product has the letters "XP" in its name doesn't mean C >it's only intended for WIndowsXP. VMS is a supported OS to be used ( >with the XP12000 (or XP12k) disk array. >  >Ken  D You are correct. But prefixing the product name with XP provides an J automatic association with Windows-XP. It's not a bad thing but it is how  marketing people think.   M BTW, my previous post was a response to a complaint about the video being in  M WMV format which I don't see as a big deal. If HP is selling a product which  K can be used across multiple operating systems including OpenVMS, then they  L are just good business people. It also just another example of how they are E doing a good job of continuing the product lines they inherited from  I DEC/Compaq. It's the same thing with OpenVMS; just look at the number of  M patches, additional features, and version number changes we've seen since HP  K took over this product from Compaq. You've got to give credit where credit   is due.   
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html9 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/openvms_demos.html    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 09:05:06 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> 3 Subject: Re: HP Storageworks Arrays are Bulletproof 5 Message-ID: <LXK2g.43$fx.10853@news20.bellglobal.com>   D For some reason this video has touched a raw nerve with some people.  E As a person who started out working with RP04/05/06 drives then later J migrated to RA80 drives, I can tell you that the StorageWorks product lineG on OpenVMS is (to me) the biggest success story in my world. Aside from F people accidentally deleting files, I don't remember ever doing a dataI recovery after moving to the StorageWorks product line more than 10 years  ago.       ###   I On a related note, my employer has purchased a few turnkey systems from a J vendor who built solutions based upon SUN products. This has allowed me toL make a few unbiased (but limited) comparisons between the two vendors. I canI tell you that from what I have seen, maintaining "host-based RAID" on SUN D boxes today (2006) is not as advanced as technology seen on VMS-5.2.  G With respect to "hardware-based RAID" I've only got experience with two 	 products:   % 1) Mylex DAC960 RAID with RZ29 Drives $ 2) RA-3000 (HSZ-22) with RZ29 Drives  G The Mylex solution is 10 years old while the HSZ-22 solution is about 5 K years old and yet both these products are child's play to use in an OpenVMS I environment. Watching a Solaris expert rebuilding a RAID sets seemed more % like black magic (or job protection).   
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html9 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/openvms_demos.html    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 10:29:20 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> 3 Subject: Re: HP Storageworks Arrays are Bulletproof 9 Message-ID: <Uc-dnRsmSbAfE9bZnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@libcom.com>    Neil Rieck wrote: 6 > "Ken Robinson" <kenrbnsn@gmail.com> wrote in messageD > news:7dd80f60604230617p5851d2c8ka907b22ba7349965@mail.gmail.com...6 > On 4/23/06, Neil Rieck <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote: > F >>>Umm, the name of this product is "XP12000 Disk Array" so I can only	 >>>assume J >>>that this product is targeted at the Windows-XP market. If this is true >>>then J >>>the choice of WMV probably makes sense (although anyone with an eye for >>>open % >>>technologies would have used MPEG)  >>F >>Just because a product has the letters "XP" in its name doesn't meanD >>it's only intended for WIndowsXP. VMS is a supported OS to be used) >>with the XP12000 (or XP12k) disk array.  >> >>Ken  >  > F > You are correct. But prefixing the product name with XP provides an L > automatic association with Windows-XP. It's not a bad thing but it is how  > marketing people think.  > O > BTW, my previous post was a response to a complaint about the video being in  O > WMV format which I don't see as a big deal. If HP is selling a product which  M > can be used across multiple operating systems including OpenVMS, then they  N > are just good business people. It also just another example of how they are G > doing a good job of continuing the product lines they inherited from  K > DEC/Compaq. It's the same thing with OpenVMS; just look at the number of  O > patches, additional features, and version number changes we've seen since HP  M > took over this product from Compaq. You've got to give credit where credit  	 > is due.  >  > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  > Ontario, Canada.: > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html; > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/openvms_demos.html  >  >  >   - There are (at least) two sides to this issue.   F To some people, WMV is a universal format usable to everyone.  If you G cannot use it, you're not using 'appropriate' tools.  Some comparisons  E might be 'a bus built only for white people', or 'stores with access  D only for non-handicaped people'.  It's either ignorance, or telling F non-MS users that they just aren't important.  For the owners of VMS,   this is poor business practices.  H The other side is the question, 'Is VMS an OS for serious computer type H tasks, or just another glorified communications tool?'  I personally do H not use VMS on the desktop.  Other products are better oriented to this I task.  Just today's reality.  Those who dispute this just aren't willing   to face reality.  A As for HP, if they are going to allow their people to use WMV to  H advertise their products, then the least they could do is make sure all I their products can use the format.  That, or make their marketing people  H use a format usable on all their products.  I'm with Brian on this, but - I don't have the time to build large letters.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 10:11:16 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> 3 Subject: Re: HP Storageworks Arrays are Bulletproof 6 Message-ID: <UwN2g.119$fx.27755@news20.bellglobal.com>  B "Z" <Z@ids.net> wrote in message news:hwa2g.174$oo1.41@fe04.lga... > Alan Greig wrote: , >> http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=31165 >> Which begins: >> [...snip...] > I > Interesting but the placement of the bullet was deliberate and while it G > penetrated a circuit board, it's clear that this wasn't really a good L > test. Heck, I could shoot a bullet through my Windows desktop PC (no RAID)I > and one of its circuit boards (and even the secondary or external disk) L > and it would still run just fine streaming video. It's not even clear that) > any disks were penetrated by the round.   L On my OpenVMS system we're running an RA-3000 (HSZ22) configured to support L four RAID "0+1" sets on four RZ29 drive shelves. We stripe horizontally and  mirror vertically like so:  # PS|00a|01a|02a|10a|11a|12a| shelf 1 # PS|00b|01b|02b|10b|11b|12b| shelf 2   # PS|20a|21a|22a|10a|31a|12a| shelf 3 # PS|20b|21b|22b|10b|31b|12b| shelf 4   K Right now, I know we could survive a bullet sent through the middle of any  H single shelf. Sending a bullet between any two shelves might cause us a L problem but if I physically swapped shelves 2 + 4 then I could survive this 5 problem too. So I believe their claim is a valid one.   9 p.s. I don't think I could surive a gunshot to the HSZ22.   
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html9 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/openvms_demos.html         ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 12:05:03 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> 3 Subject: Re: HP Storageworks Arrays are Bulletproof 6 Message-ID: <rAN2g.121$fx.27893@news20.bellglobal.com>  5 "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote in message  0 news:UwN2g.119$fx.27755@news20.bellglobal.com... >  [...snip...] > % > PS|00a|01a|02a|10a|11a|12a| shelf 1 % > PS|00b|01b|02b|10b|11b|12b| shelf 2  > % > PS|20a|21a|22a|10a|31a|12a| shelf 3 % > PS|20b|21b|22b|10b|31b|12b| shelf 4  >  >  Correction: ! I looks like I need knew glasses.   # PS|00a|01a|02a|10a|11a|12a| shelf 1 # PS|00b|01b|02b|10b|11b|12b| shelf 2   # PS|20a|21a|22a|30a|31a|32a| shelf 3 # PS|20b|21b|22b|30b|31b|32b| shelf 4   
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html9 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/openvms_demos.html    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Apr 2006 10:01:45 -0700C From: "AlexNOSPAMDaniels@themail.co.uk" <alexdaniels@themail.co.uk> 3 Subject: Re: HP Storageworks Arrays are Bulletproof B Message-ID: <1145811705.250493.22350@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>  6 > On 4/23/06, Neil Rieck <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote:" > If HP is selling a product whichL > can be used across multiple operating systems including OpenVMS, then theyM > are just good business people. It also just another example of how they are F > doing a good job of continuing the product lines they inherited from
 > DEC/Compaq.  <SNIP>  C The "Storageworks XP" array is a blue HP, pre-merger product. It is ' also a rebranded HDS (Hitachi) product.   / >You've got to give credit where credit is due.   G Well done to the "Storageworks Engineers" in the video who stuck the HP  badge on the front.   E I should also note, technically is doesn't offer the same support for F VMS, that HSGs/EVAs and other DEC/Compaq lineage Storageworks products do.   E It doesn't support SCSI READL/WRITEL and the forced error flag. It is : argueable therefore not suitable for all VMS environments.  B Personally I'm quite happy with EVA8000's, but if I did need to go< beyond that, it wouldn't be to  the "Storageworks" XP array.   Alex   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 03:57:11 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> # Subject: Re: OT: Sparc not dead yet , Message-ID: <444B334B.4B169DD7@teksavvy.com>   Rob Young wrote:* >         Just what are you talking about? > D >         3Q 2005 compared to 3Q 2004.  When do you suppose the .com >         blip was?     H My question stands.   Since 2001, the numbers may have gone down at Sun,H but one needs to compare it to the levels prior to the .com anomaly.  ToF me, what I wantto know is whether Sun's market share is higher than it was in 1995 or lower.   G Or put it in another way: has Sun fully eroded the gains it made during 7 the .com boom, or is there still more room to go down ?    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Apr 2006 08:04:33 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>2 Subject: Possible solution to TLZ07/TLZ09 problemsC Message-ID: <1145804673.277886.278720@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    REPORT:   C I may have found a good workaround for the problem I've been having G with DDS-2 tapes made on TLZ07's and TLZ09's getting parity errors when G read on a different drive. I now use DDS-1 tapes and so far it has been D working fine. To confirm this, I made a full tape on DDS-2 and triedE reading it back on other drives, hoping to see the parity error while F it was reading the tape! But alas, this only happened on one drive andG close to the end of the tape. (Yes, I was expecting worse.) I also made F a DDS-1 tape using the same drive I made the DDS-2 tape on and it readC fine on the drive that couldn't read all of the DDS-2 tape. I don't G know why the drives are suddenly behaving much better, but I'll take my F one positive result (error reading a DDS-2, no error reading DDS-1) as2 a good sign that the DDS-1 solution is a good one.  G Yes, I know I won't be able to get as much on a tape as with DDS-2, but F I have only one backup job that regularly goes to multiple tapes (withG DDS-1) and that has become a 3-tape job instead of a 2. And I have much C more confidence that I'll be able to read the tapes later even on a  different drive!   AEF    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Apr 2006 13:26:53 +01006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)/ Subject: Re: required patches for other patches * Message-ID: <444b809d@news.langstoeger.at>  w In article <e2dqjt$5i2$1@online.de>, helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: F >I'm catching up on my ALPHA patches and VMS732_F11X wouldn't install: >[snip]  >What is the problem?   A You didn't install the UPDATE V6. It is listed as a prerequisite.   F >I hadn't installed VMS732_UPDATE-V0600 since I had installed all the H >patches individually.  Presumably, when I install it, PCSI will notice D >that all the files are already there and do a NOOP for most of its @ >operations.  However, I still have to download all 75 MB of it.  C You seem to forget, that historically an UPDATE ECO always had more C in it then the list of ECOs it supercedes. I don't like it, because B I have to look for specific parts in the release notes not alreadyH covered in the release notes of the superceded ECOs, but I live with it.  1 I always install UPDATE ECOs as soon as possible.    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 19:13:51 +0200 * From: nierveze <alain.nierveze@wanadoo.fr> Subject: vws7 Message-ID: <444bb598$0$29221$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>    good morning to all 6 I am a long time hobby vms user,and vax collector ,but7 I have never found any information of the status of vws 8 regarding hobby program,and especially uisx as there areG applications running under vws ,and with this 'emulator' they could be   run under decwindow.= Has anyone some information about this ,is vws part of hobby  H program,where to find the software as it is not in the cd distributions  of vms hobby ,or freeware .  you help would be appreciated  thanks very much alain nierveze   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.225 ************************