1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 24 Apr 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 227       Contents: Re: DIR/SIZE field to small 3 Re: Heads up - new BACKUP kit - VMS732_BACKUP-V0500 3 Re: Heads up - new BACKUP kit - VMS732_BACKUP-V0500 E Re: Heads UP BRUDEN Announces the OpenVMS Bootcamp Uptime Scholarship E Re: Heads UP BRUDEN Announces the OpenVMS Bootcamp Uptime Scholarship E Re: Heads UP BRUDEN Announces the OpenVMS Bootcamp Uptime Scholarship E Re: Heads UP BRUDEN Announces the OpenVMS Bootcamp Uptime Scholarship E Re: Heads UP BRUDEN Announces the OpenVMS Bootcamp Uptime Scholarship * Re: HP Storageworks Arrays are Bulletproof* Re: HP Storageworks Arrays are Bulletproof) Re: Need Help Finding Memory Part Numbers . Re: Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS. RE: Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS. Re: Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS. Re: Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS. Re: Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS. Re: Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS. Re: Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS Re: OT: Sparc not dead yet Re: OT: Sparc not dead yet Re: OT: Sparc not dead yet Re: OT: Sparc not dead yet Re: OT: Sparc not dead yet Re: Problems with $CREPRC  Re: Problems with $CREPRC  Re: Replacing drives in bricks& Re: required patches for other patches4 Re: set file empty (dfu set <file>/eblock=1/ebyte=0). Re: Strange behavior of DEFINE with equal-sign. Re: Strange behavior of DEFINE with equal-sign Re: Strange disk device state  Re: Strange disk device state  Re: Strange disk device state  Re: Strange disk device state  Re: Strange disk device state : Re: VAX/VMS 5.5-2, Disk to Disk backup / Disk name problem  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 23 Apr 2006 23:51:34 -0700$ From: "Wilm" <w4.boerhout@planet.nl>$ Subject: Re: DIR/SIZE field to smallC Message-ID: <1145861494.223025.153120@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   F Should'nt that be: "He who -from now on- shall not be logically named" ?    /Wilm    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 14:24:05 +0500 4 From: Valentin Likoum <valentin.likoum@ncc.volga.ru>< Subject: Re: Heads up - new BACKUP kit - VMS732_BACKUP-V05004 Message-ID: <1927636503.20060424142405@ncc.volga.ru>  B On 14/03/06 Guy Peleg <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@hp.com> wrote:   > Hello,  @ > I thought you might be interested to know that we are about to7 > ship a new BACKUP ECO for V73-2 - VMS732_BACKUP-V0500 
 > (1-2 weeks) > > The new kit contains several interesting fixes/enhancements: [snip]? > * Dynamic Volume Expansion support - BACKUP currently ignores B > Dynamic Volume Expansion (DVE) characteristics of a device. WithG > the new kit, backup will preserve the expansion size and if requested F > the logical size of a device. Two new qualifiers been added - /LIMIT? > and /SIZE to allow overriding defaults stored in the saveset.  [snip]  =    But how this preservation is supposed to work? I tried it:    $!  init destination disk ' $ init/stru=5/clus=32/limit dka500: tmp  $ sho dev dka500:/full  L Disk $7$DKA500: (XXX7), device type COMPAQ BD018635C4, is online, allocated, [snip]O     Total blocks            35565080    Sectors per track                   254 O     Total cylinders             7001    Tracks per cylinder                  20 O     Logical Volume Size     35565080    Expansion Size Limit         2151546880 O [snip]                      ^^^^^^^^                                 ^^^^^^^^^^ I                                  |---------  so far so good ------------|    $!  check source disk  $ sho dev dsa0:/full  L Disk DSA0:, device type COMPAQ BD01864552, is online, mounted, file-orientedM     device, shareable, available to cluster, error logging is enabled, device )     supports bitmaps (no bitmaps active).   O     Total blocks            35565080    Sectors per track                   254 O     Total cylinders             7001    Tracks per cylinder                  20 O     Logical Volume Size     35565080    Expansion Size Limit           39997440  [snip]  & $! now try to test DVE-friendly BACKUPB $ back/ver/ign=int dsa0: $7$dka500: /ima /noinit /limit=2151546880U %BACKUP-I-LOGNOTPRES, logical volume size of volume $7$DKA500: not preserved  !  Why? U %BACKUP-I-EXTINDEXF, INDEXF.SYS on device $7$DKA500: has been extended to accommodate  restored files ...  $ sho dev dka500:/full  L Disk $7$DKA500: (XXX7), device type COMPAQ BD018635C4, is online, allocated, [snip]O     Total blocks            35565080    Sectors per track                   254 O     Total cylinders             7001    Tracks per cylinder                  20 O     Logical Volume Size     35565080    Expansion Size Limit           37617664 O [snip]                      ^^^^^^^^                                  ^^^^^^^^^ G                                  |---------  Oops, where  ------------| >                                              my limit gone to?  > VMS 7.3-2. VMS732_UPDATE V6.0 and VMS732_BACKUP V5.0 installed  =   So was DVE functionality excluded from the final release of ? BACKUP-V0500 or I do anything wrong? I tried backup with /LIMIT E qualifier without value and /LIMIT=2151546880. No luck in both cases.    Thank you.   --  
 Best regards, #  Valentin                           (  valentin.likoum at ncc dot volga dot ru   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 15:39:37 +0300 7 From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@hp.com> < Subject: Re: Heads up - new BACKUP kit - VMS732_BACKUP-V0500* Message-ID: <444cc70b@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  A "Valentin Likoum" <valentin.likoum@ncc.volga.ru> wrote in message . news:1927636503.20060424142405@ncc.volga.ru...D > On 14/03/06 Guy Peleg <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@hp.com> wrote: > 
 > > Hello, > B > > I thought you might be interested to know that we are about to9 > > ship a new BACKUP ECO for V73-2 - VMS732_BACKUP-V0500  > > (1-2 weeks) @ > > The new kit contains several interesting fixes/enhancements: > [snip]A > > * Dynamic Volume Expansion support - BACKUP currently ignores D > > Dynamic Volume Expansion (DVE) characteristics of a device. WithI > > the new kit, backup will preserve the expansion size and if requested H > > the logical size of a device. Two new qualifiers been added - /LIMITA > > and /SIZE to allow overriding defaults stored in the saveset.  > [snip] > ? >    But how this preservation is supposed to work? I tried it:  >  > $!  init destination disk ) > $ init/stru=5/clus=32/limit dka500: tmp  > $ sho dev dka500:/full > C > Disk $7$DKA500: (XXX7), device type COMPAQ BD018635C4, is online, 
 allocated, > [snip]; >     Total blocks            35565080    Sectors per track  254 = >     Total cylinders             7001    Tracks per cylinder  20> >     Logical Volume Size     35565080    Expansion Size Limit
 2151546880& > [snip]                      ^^^^^^^^
 ^^^^^^^^^^K >                                  |---------  so far so good ------------|  >  > $!  check source disk  > $ sho dev dsa0:/full > @ > Disk DSA0:, device type COMPAQ BD01864552, is online, mounted,
 file-oriented H >     device, shareable, available to cluster, error logging is enabled, device+ >     supports bitmaps (no bitmaps active).  > ; >     Total blocks            35565080    Sectors per track  254 = >     Total cylinders             7001    Tracks per cylinder  20> >     Logical Volume Size     35565080    Expansion Size Limit 39997440 > [snip] > ( > $! now try to test DVE-friendly BACKUPD > $ back/ver/ign=int dsa0: $7$dka500: /ima /noinit /limit=2151546880D > %BACKUP-I-LOGNOTPRES, logical volume size of volume $7$DKA500: not preserved  !  Why?K > %BACKUP-I-EXTINDEXF, INDEXF.SYS on device $7$DKA500: has been extended to  accommodate  > restored files > ...  > $ sho dev dka500:/full > C > Disk $7$DKA500: (XXX7), device type COMPAQ BD018635C4, is online, 
 allocated, > [snip]; >     Total blocks            35565080    Sectors per track  254 = >     Total cylinders             7001    Tracks per cylinder  20> >     Logical Volume Size     35565080    Expansion Size Limit 37617664& > [snip]                      ^^^^^^^^	 ^^^^^^^^^ I >                                  |---------  Oops, where  ------------| @ >                                              my limit gone to? > @ > VMS 7.3-2. VMS732_UPDATE V6.0 and VMS732_BACKUP V5.0 installed > ? >   So was DVE functionality excluded from the final release of A > BACKUP-V0500 or I do anything wrong? I tried backup with /LIMIT G > qualifier without value and /LIMIT=2151546880. No luck in both cases.  >   Thank you. >  > --   > Best regards,  >  Valentin * >  valentin.likoum at ncc dot volga dot ru >    Drop the /NOINI qualifier    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Apr 2006 07:53:08 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) N Subject: Re: Heads UP BRUDEN Announces the OpenVMS Bootcamp Uptime Scholarship3 Message-ID: <xtPQMRw0CqT0@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <444C29DD.51CEBE37@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Sue wrote:3 >> 1) Must have worked on OpenVMS, when it was VMS.  > H > Only way for this to happen is a DEC engineer working on a new releaseJ > of VMS that would be later be named "OpenVMS". So officially, the OS wasJ > still called VMS, even though the engineer was working on the unreleased > version og OpenVMS.  > H > (I think that perhaps the intend was to have someone who worked on VMS > before it was named OpenVMS.    F    Nope.  VAX/VMS 5.5-2 was retroactively renamed OpenVMS VAX when the>    POSIX kit shipped with support for 5.5-2.  But I think your#    parenthetical remark is correct.    > F > Plenty of people worked on VMS while it was named OpenVMS though :-) > 5 >> 2) Must be older than Bruce Ellis (Born 6/2/1956).  > J > Glad to see I still have a number of years to go before I qualify :-) So. > Mr ellis's birthay is 6th or february then ?  D    I can beat that but a few months, but I can't take advantage if I    win so I won't enter.   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Apr 2006 07:57:35 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) N Subject: Re: Heads UP BRUDEN Announces the OpenVMS Bootcamp Uptime Scholarship, Message-ID: <Uk1hOIuQKqtc@malvm9.mala.bc.ca>  4 In article <xtPQMRw0CqT0@eisner.encompasserve.org>, A     koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:   G >> Plenty of people worked on VMS while it was named OpenVMS though :-)  >>  6 >>> 2) Must be older than Bruce Ellis (Born 6/2/1956). >>  K >> Glad to see I still have a number of years to go before I qualify :-) So / >> Mr ellis's birthay is 6th or february then ?  > F >    I can beat that but a few months, but I can't take advantage if I >    win so I won't enter.  3    So is that date supposed to be June 2 or Feb 6 ?   7   (If the former I qualify, if the latter then I don't)    ------------------------------   Date: 24 Apr 2006 15:20:15 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)N Subject: Re: Heads UP BRUDEN Announces the OpenVMS Bootcamp Uptime Scholarship+ Message-ID: <4b48lfFvcdicU2@individual.net>   3 In article <xtPQMRw0CqT0@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:^ > In article <444C29DD.51CEBE37@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:
 >> Sue wrote: 4 >>> 1) Must have worked on OpenVMS, when it was VMS. >>  I >> Only way for this to happen is a DEC engineer working on a new release K >> of VMS that would be later be named "OpenVMS". So officially, the OS was K >> still called VMS, even though the engineer was working on the unreleased  >> version og OpenVMS. >>  I >> (I think that perhaps the intend was to have someone who worked on VMS   >> before it was named OpenVMS.  > H >    Nope.  VAX/VMS 5.5-2 was retroactively renamed OpenVMS VAX when the@ >    POSIX kit shipped with support for 5.5-2.  But I think your% >    parenthetical remark is correct.  >  >>  G >> Plenty of people worked on VMS while it was named OpenVMS though :-)  >>  6 >>> 2) Must be older than Bruce Ellis (Born 6/2/1956). >>  K >> Glad to see I still have a number of years to go before I qualify :-) So / >> Mr ellis's birthay is 6th or february then ?  > F >    I can beat that but a few months, but I can't take advantage if I >    win so I won't enter.  G I beat it by more than a half-decade.  But I can't take advantage of it  either.    bill      --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 24 Apr 2006 09:31:25 -0700 From: davidc@montagar.com N Subject: Re: Heads UP BRUDEN Announces the OpenVMS Bootcamp Uptime ScholarshipB Message-ID: <1145896285.435602.79230@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>  5 >> 2) Must be older than Bruce Ellis (Born 6/2/1956).  > I >Glad to see I still have a number of years to go before I qualify :-) So - >Mr ellis's birthay is 6th or february then ?   E What, like we're going to cryogeniclly freeze Bruce or something, and / your birthday will somehow catch up to his? :-)    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Apr 2006 12:30:45 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) N Subject: Re: Heads UP BRUDEN Announces the OpenVMS Bootcamp Uptime Scholarship3 Message-ID: <l1lSV+DZ0vvE@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <Uk1hOIuQKqtc@malvm9.mala.bc.ca>, nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) writes: > 5 >    So is that date supposed to be June 2 or Feb 6 ?   B    IIRC Bruce was born and raised in the US where it would be read
    as June 2.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 07:26:48 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> 3 Subject: Re: HP Storageworks Arrays are Bulletproof 7 Message-ID: <1C23g.400$1V4.41599@news20.bellglobal.com>   5 "Alan Greig" <greigaln@netscape.net> wrote in message 8 news:JTO2g.125238$8Q3.89016@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk... >  > Neil Rieck wrote:  >> >>F >> Umm, the name of this product is "XP12000 Disk Array" so I can onlyL >> assume that this product is targeted at the Windows-XP market. If this is >> true then >   > Please tell me you are joking? > J Why would I be joking? In today's weird times either an MBA or a marketingI dweeb will first purchase the hardware and software THEN will shop around L for technical specialists to make a project happen. Also, there is a "one in: 676 chance" that the 2 letter prefix would have been "XP".  K As a back-room server I think OpenVMS is superior to any flavor of Windows. J However, I was shocked to see Windows boxes creeping into back-room serverF applications at my employer's company. I have yet to see OpenVMS takenG seriously by anyone outside of this newsgroup as a desktop OS. So since K non-technical people are making the decisions, is it dumb or smart to stick  "XP" in the product name?   K The PDF for this product claims it is supported on the following platforms  H "HP-UX, Tru64, Open VMS, NonStop, Solaris, AIX, Windows, NetWare, IRIX, J Linux, Mainframe". Kudos to HP for covering thmaking sure all their bases  are covered.    
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html9 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/openvms_demos.html    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 13:22:28 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 3 Subject: Re: HP Storageworks Arrays are Bulletproof + Message-ID: <444D0951.8E908F1@teksavvy.com>    Neil Rieck wrote: ! > I have yet to see OpenVMS taken @ > seriously by anyone outside of this newsgroup as a desktop OS.  E The problem is VMS beung taken seriously is far more than just at the E desktop. People don't take it seriously because it is taken for dead, 5 not marketed and HP doesn't defend any FUD about VMS.   C Lets face it: apart from the work done by Mr Peleg, the rest of VMS G development doesn't affect users at all. Engineering is just keeping up E with hardware changes, new disk technologies , new interconnects.  So ' the user interface on VMS is quite old.   E It wouldn' that that much to bring in Motif 2.3, and possibly include H additional widgets, update the DEC specific widgets and make the desktopG quite modern.  It may not have "office" softwware, but there are plenty E of applications that are desktop but not "office". (think air traffic K control, nuclear reactor control rooms, telecom network monitoring etc etc)       
 > So sinceM > non-technical people are making the decisions, is it dumb or smart to stick  > "XP" in the product name?     ? Well, lets just see how quickly HP rebadges the products "Vista  Storageworks" next year.   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Apr 2006 08:31:29 -0700( From: "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com>2 Subject: Re: Need Help Finding Memory Part NumbersB Message-ID: <1145892689.725876.96110@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>  D Work's SOC collection goes a bit further.  It lists the following in the April 1998 SOC:   , HSSIM-AA  32MB SIMM pack for HSD50 and HSJ50  D There's no info about the SIMM packaging or requirements though, andB nothing in the 1998 price list.  HSJ50s supported 32, 64, or 128MB cache per controller.    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Apr 2006 04:53:01 -0700- From: "Andrew" <andrew_harrison@symantec.com> 7 Subject: Re: Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS C Message-ID: <1145879581.648173.311280@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    Main, Kerry wrote: > > -----Original Message-----0 > > From: BRAD [mailto:bradhamilton@comcast.net]  > > Sent: April 21, 2006 6:09 PM > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ; > > Subject: Re: Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS  > >  >  > [snip ..]  >  > >   ( > Check out IDX / OpenVMS references at:A > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/success-stories.html (also has Cerner  > references as well)  >   ? Not wanting to rain on your parade but only one of the customer > references on this web page are from 2006 (Dartmouth College).  4 One from 2005 and the rest from 2004-2003-2002-2001.  F All appear to be upgrades or renewed investment in OpenVMS none appear to new buiness.    Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 08:49:33 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> 7 Subject: RE: Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS T Message-ID: <FA60F2C4B72A584DBFC6091F6A2B868401300B3B@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----7 > From: Andrew [mailto:andrew_harrison@symantec.com]=20  > Sent: April 24, 2006 7:53 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 9 > Subject: Re: Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS  >=20 >=20 > Main, Kerry wrote:  > > > -----Original Message-----2 > > > From: BRAD [mailto:bradhamilton@comcast.net]" > > > Sent: April 21, 2006 6:09 PM > > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com = > > > Subject: Re: Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS  > > >  > > 
 > > [snip ..]  > >  > > >  >=20* > > Check out IDX / OpenVMS references at:C > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/success-stories.html (also has Cerner  > > references as well)  > >  >=20A > Not wanting to rain on your parade but only one of the customer @ > references on this web page are from 2006 (Dartmouth College). >=20  F Of course you want to rain on parades .. That's what you do so well...) Unless of course, it is a Solaris parade.    :-)   6 > One from 2005 and the rest from 2004-2003-2002-2001. >=20H > All appear to be upgrades or renewed investment in OpenVMS none appear > to new buiness.  >=20  H The thread I replied to was looking for a few examples where OpenVMS was used in healthcare.=20  ( That's what these references provide.=20  F Heck, you could also look at the following USD $784M announcement from+ VA Hospitals as well (2004 - 10 year deal). 9 http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2004/040324a.html    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------   Date: 24 Apr 2006 15:15:30 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)7 Subject: Re: Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS + Message-ID: <4b48chFvcdicU1@individual.net>   T In article <FA60F2C4B72A584DBFC6091F6A2B868401300B3B@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>,* 	"Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes: > H > Heck, you could also look at the following USD $784M announcement from- > VA Hospitals as well (2004 - 10 year deal). ; > http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2004/040324a.html   H Even a blind hog finds an acorn once in a while!!  I would certainly not5 present the VA as a paragon of management excellence.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 24 Apr 2006 08:58:36 -0700- From: "Andrew" <andrew_harrison@symantec.com> 7 Subject: Re: Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS C Message-ID: <1145894316.801815.272850@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>    Main, Kerry wrote: > > -----Original Message-----6 > > From: Andrew [mailto:andrew_harrison@symantec.com]  > > Sent: April 24, 2006 7:53 AM > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ; > > Subject: Re: Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS  > >  > >  > > Main, Kerry wrote:" > > > > -----Original Message-----4 > > > > From: BRAD [mailto:bradhamilton@comcast.net]$ > > > > Sent: April 21, 2006 6:09 PM! > > > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ? > > > > Subject: Re: Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS  > > > >  > > >  > > > [snip ..]  > > >  > > > >  > > , > > > Check out IDX / OpenVMS references at:E > > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/success-stories.html (also has Cerner  > > > references as well)  > > >  > > C > > Not wanting to rain on your parade but only one of the customer B > > references on this web page are from 2006 (Dartmouth College). > >  > H > Of course you want to rain on parades .. That's what you do so well...+ > Unless of course, it is a Solaris parade.  >  > :-)  > 8 > > One from 2005 and the rest from 2004-2003-2002-2001. > > J > > All appear to be upgrades or renewed investment in OpenVMS none appear > > to new buiness.  > >  > J > The thread I replied to was looking for a few examples where OpenVMS was > used in healthcare.  > ' > That's what these references provide.  > H > Heck, you could also look at the following USD $784M announcement from- > VA Hospitals as well (2004 - 10 year deal). ; > http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2004/040324a.html   F Not wanting to rain further on your parade, oh well it soaking and all5 the revelers have gone home long ago so what the hec.   G Your posting makes it seem as if this is a $784 million OpenVMS sucess, G of course it isn't ist a services and maintence deal which does include B OpenVMS but also includes all the other platforms that the VA use.  7 In addition the press release inbcludes this little gem   D "The VA's teamwork, combined with HP's Adaptive Enterprise strategy,E has resulted in VistA being recognized as one of the premier hospital " information systems in the world."  F Laugh, I nearly fell off my chair, this is an OpenVMS reference isn't,< so what on earth is Adaptive Enterprise doing lurking in it.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Apr 2006 11:47:17 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 7 Subject: Re: Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS 3 Message-ID: <oryVHLywMc+D@eisner.encompasserve.org>   s In article <1145894316.801815.272850@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>, "Andrew" <andrew_harrison@symantec.com> writes:   F > "The VA's teamwork, combined with HP's Adaptive Enterprise strategy,G > has resulted in VistA being recognized as one of the premier hospital $ > information systems in the world." > H > Laugh, I nearly fell off my chair, this is an OpenVMS reference isn't,> > so what on earth is Adaptive Enterprise doing lurking in it.  K Adaptive Enterprise is an HP marketing term, and I have heard presentations H where they describe it as being a lot of what VMS already does regarding clusters, Galaxy, etc.   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Apr 2006 12:29:36 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 7 Subject: Re: Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS 3 Message-ID: <XbLGpzmdkojX@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <4b48chFvcdicU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:V > In article <FA60F2C4B72A584DBFC6091F6A2B868401300B3B@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>,, > 	"Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes: >>  I >> Heck, you could also look at the following USD $784M announcement from . >> VA Hospitals as well (2004 - 10 year deal).< >> http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2004/040324a.html > J > Even a blind hog finds an acorn once in a while!!  I would certainly not7 > present the VA as a paragon of management excellence.   G    According to the Vets it serves, VA is doing much better in the last I    decade or so than it did in the late 80's and early 90's when it got a     richly deserved black eye.   C    In fact VA is now considered a good example of how to run a very /    large organisation focused on customer care.   F    But then hogs are known for finding things with thier noses.  WhichD    is why they're famous for truffle hunting, and a blind hog is not    relavent.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 13:31:59 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 7 Subject: Re: Opinion: I was just trying to sell OpenVMS , Message-ID: <444D0B8C.A9952174@teksavvy.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:M > Adaptive Enterprise is an HP marketing term, and I have heard presentations J > where they describe it as being a lot of what VMS already does regarding > clusters, Galaxy, etc.  E When Carly announced "Adaptive Enterprise"  buzzword-du-jour, VMS was / never included in the press releases/documents.   B However, I think i have recently seen some mentioh that VMS is now. included in that meaningless marketing scheme.   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Apr 2006 04:34:07 -0700- From: "Andrew" <andrew_harrison@symantec.com> # Subject: Re: OT: Sparc not dead yet C Message-ID: <1145878447.208066.250540@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>    Doug Phillips wrote: > Dave Froble wrote: > > JF Mezei wrote:  > <...> L > > > Neother do I.  But if the market and the 8086 develops to a point thatL > > > the 8086 can take on the vast majority of configurations now done onlyL > > > in Sparc, and the 8086 is cheaper, then Sun will also be responsive to0 > > > cutsomer demands for lower priced systems. > > > E > > > Sparc competes against power and 8086. Both Sparc and Power are B > > > essentially proprietary chips without competition within theI > > > architectures. (yes, I know sparc has multiple sources, but do they  > > > really *compete* ? ) > > L > > What you're ignoring is that AMD at least doesn't give a rat's ass aboutL > > the top end.  The desktop (say volumn) is just getting to dual core, andF > > the majority of servers is in the 4-8 core size.  That's where the0 > > volume is.  Volume is where the money is at. > >  > D > Are you kidding? AMD and Intel *covet* the top end. AMD is pushing. > Intel & x86 upward like noone else ever has. >   F Of course they covert the top end, that doesn't mean that they are anyA more equipped now to address the requirements of a top end server * infrastructure than they were 5 years ago.  E The reality is that despite AMD and Intels attempts to move commodity A x86 based patforms higher up the tree their share of the high end D server market remains where it was 5 years ago. The most significantD change in the last 5 years has instead been AMD's increase in market# share in the 1-8 way server market.   A AMD and Intel havn't advanced upwards because the target they are G aiming at has got harder to hit from a commodity perspective. You could F argue based on the relative capabilities of commodity servers and high@ end servers that the gap hasn't changed much in the last decade.  G > To anyone paying attention it's obvious that x86 (AMD64 / EM64T) will F > keep advancing upward. Anyone willing to "do the math" will see thatG > the R&D $ pushing the x86 advancement is greater than other competing I > chips. Okay, forget the money. Consider inertia. There is more software H > running on x86 than any other instruction set. There are tools alreadyE > developed for x86 that must be ported or re-written for development E > under another set. Plus, the Alpha folks are working in both camps. + > Some competitive feelings there, perhaps?  >   A This may be true at the low end but large server have an entirely F different OS and Apps ecosystem. Lots of apps run on commodity servers> but they do so mainly because commodity OS's also run on these platforms (Windows and Linux).  E But Windows and Linux do not scale to support high end servers unless A you are happy to partition the very large systems down into small C system chunks using VMWARE etc. Until they do scale and support the E same kinds of platform facilities as AIX and Solaris such as hot swap @ components, online component failure without reboot etc then the? numbers commodity CPU based high end servers are self limitted.    Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Apr 2006 05:30:00 -0700 From: bob@instantwhip.com # Subject: Re: OT: Sparc not dead yet C Message-ID: <1145881800.716755.208080@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>   D OpenVMS meets those requirements so why run garbage aix and slowaris ...    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Apr 2006 07:29:29 -0700- From: "Andrew" <andrew_harrison@symantec.com> # Subject: Re: OT: Sparc not dead yet C Message-ID: <1145888969.405897.103080@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    bob@instantwhip.com wrote:F > OpenVMS meets those requirements so why run garbage aix and slowaris > ...   F Actually it doesn't if a CPU fails on an OpenVMS box then the box will1 always reboot, that is not the case with Solaris.   : You are also flogging a dead horse with the slowaris jibe.  E The Slowaris jibe apeared when Solaris 2.x came out over a decade ago @ because it was slower than SunOS the OS it replaced. Things haveD changed rather dramatically since and Solaris 10 tends to outperform; most of the other OS's around running on the same hardware.    Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Apr 2006 10:10:20 -0700- From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> # Subject: Re: OT: Sparc not dead yet A Message-ID: <1145898619.962033.9930@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>   
 Andrew wrote:  > Doug Phillips wrote: > > Dave Froble wrote: > > > JF Mezei wrote: 	 > > <...> N > > > > Neother do I.  But if the market and the 8086 develops to a point thatN > > > > the 8086 can take on the vast majority of configurations now done onlyN > > > > in Sparc, and the 8086 is cheaper, then Sun will also be responsive to2 > > > > cutsomer demands for lower priced systems. > > > > G > > > > Sparc competes against power and 8086. Both Sparc and Power are D > > > > essentially proprietary chips without competition within theK > > > > architectures. (yes, I know sparc has multiple sources, but do they  > > > > really *compete* ? ) > > > N > > > What you're ignoring is that AMD at least doesn't give a rat's ass aboutN > > > the top end.  The desktop (say volumn) is just getting to dual core, andH > > > the majority of servers is in the 4-8 core size.  That's where the2 > > > volume is.  Volume is where the money is at. > > >  > > F > > Are you kidding? AMD and Intel *covet* the top end. AMD is pushing0 > > Intel & x86 upward like noone else ever has. > >  > H > Of course they covert the top end, that doesn't mean that they are anyC > more equipped now to address the requirements of a top end server , > infrastructure than they were 5 years ago. > G > The reality is that despite AMD and Intels attempts to move commodity C > x86 based patforms higher up the tree their share of the high end F > server market remains where it was 5 years ago. The most significantF > change in the last 5 years has instead been AMD's increase in market% > share in the 1-8 way server market.  >   @ I call this an advance. You might not. Your argument ignores the obvious trend.  C > AMD and Intel havn't advanced upwards because the target they are I > aiming at has got harder to hit from a commodity perspective. You could H > argue based on the relative capabilities of commodity servers and highB > end servers that the gap hasn't changed much in the last decade. >   C I wouldn't argue that point, except as an exercise, because I don't  agree with it.    I > > To anyone paying attention it's obvious that x86 (AMD64 / EM64T) will H > > keep advancing upward. Anyone willing to "do the math" will see thatI > > the R&D $ pushing the x86 advancement is greater than other competing K > > chips. Okay, forget the money. Consider inertia. There is more software J > > running on x86 than any other instruction set. There are tools alreadyG > > developed for x86 that must be ported or re-written for development G > > under another set. Plus, the Alpha folks are working in both camps. - > > Some competitive feelings there, perhaps?  > >  > C > This may be true at the low end but large server have an entirely H > different OS and Apps ecosystem. Lots of apps run on commodity servers@ > but they do so mainly because commodity OS's also run on these  > platforms (Windows and Linux). > G > But Windows and Linux do not scale to support high end servers unless C > you are happy to partition the very large systems down into small E > system chunks using VMWARE etc. Until they do scale and support the G > same kinds of platform facilities as AIX and Solaris such as hot swap B > components, online component failure without reboot etc then theA > numbers commodity CPU based high end servers are self limitted.  >   D Again, you're stuck in the present (actually, the past) disregardingG the future. I would never say that today's x86 based systems could roll F in right now and replace every "big iron" installation, but in another= post in this thread you did mention IBM's contribution to the  higher-end x86 market.  B What is your "read" on IBM's direction? I see a lot of their moneyB going into x86. I also see that they have a lot of money to spend.C They've also let (if not helped) their big Power dependent customer F move over to Intel. Do you think the Power-portion of their just under' $6 billion R&D is growing or shrinking?   G What do you think is the future of SPARC? Sun's best year over the past = 4 was a $107 million loss. They're spending a little under $2 F billion/year on R&D with sales of around $11 billion, and Sun's R&D isD not just in chips. Looks like they've had another lousy quarter this
 year, too.  G Compare Sun just to AMD. Over the last four years, AMD has grown from a ? loss to a $165 million profit with the trend showing increasing D profits. AMD's R&D spending is increasing each year; 2005 was around $1.1 billion -- all on chips.   @ I'll let you look at Intel if you want and you can speculate howG they're spending their over-$5 billion in R&D and how strong their over C $8.6 billion in profit on just under $39 billion in sales last year  makes them.   E Too many folks think the x86 instruction set is the same as the 80x86 E chip and speak the limits of that architecture. Even though I'm not a C chip-head, I can see that the AMD & Intel designs are becoming more G capable with each new release and each release looks less and less like  an old 80x86 chip.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 13:15:50 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> # Subject: Re: OT: Sparc not dead yet , Message-ID: <444D07C4.91505F18@teksavvy.com>  
 Andrew wrote: H > Of course they covert the top end, that doesn't mean that they are anyC > more equipped now to address the requirements of a top end server , > infrastructure than they were 5 years ago.  B I think that the addition of 64 bit support to the 8086 was a veryH significant move. And AMD seems to have the knowledge/expertise to allow4 its version of the 8086 to scale to greater heights.  G You have a point about Windows and Linux not really being able to scale D up. But once you make high end 8086s, then Solaris should be able toF provide high end services on the 8086, and once VMS and NSK are portedE to the 8086, they will too. (not sure if HP would port HP-UX or if it  would just go Linux).   F People here focus way too much on the high end. The real market is the small and midrange server.    G Go back 15 years. The truly high end was done by Cray, Control Data and G a few who had very special computers to do intensive computing (weather = predictiosn etc). The large market was mainframes and minis.    G Cray couldn't afford its own chips, so it went with Alpha. Control data F no longer makes computers (does it still exist ?). And there are smallH specialised shops that build massively parralell machines, usually basedE on 8086s for special large scale jobs.  And then you have a couple of H high profile sales based on Power and some high profile donation of IA64H systems to research organistaions. There isn't a large enough commercialE market to justify continued development of more than one chip for the  very high end.    D And right now, Power is the most advanced high end chip. IA64 is way behind.   H And the 8086 is definetly in the midrange capabilities now, and some canF even push it to "mainframe". The mainframe portion may become more and  more common in the coming years.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 12:53:23 +0200 , From: Albrecht Schlosser <ajs567@tiscali.de>" Subject: Re: Problems with $CREPRC, Message-ID: <anai2e.j5a.ln@news.hus-soft.de>   Rajni wrote:	 > Hi All,  > F > We are having some problems while doing $CRPRC in Uniface 7.2.06 and > Open VMS V7.3-2.9 > The requirement is to run another uniface session (as a B > asynchronous/detached process) from the current uniface session. > ; > We have written this C code to create a detached process.    [...]    > E >     RetStat = lib$spawn (&cmdStr, 0, 0, &FlagsMask, 0, &spawn_pid); I >     RetStat = sys$creprc(&spawn_pid, &image_name_d, &inparams, 0, 0, 0,  > 0,D >                                    &process_name_d, &cmdStr, 0, 0,G >                                  PRC$M_INTER|PRC$M_NOPASSWORD, 0, 0);   F What do you intend to do with the above? First calling lib$spawn, and B then sys$creprc doesn't make much sense to me. Both functions are  similar, but also different.   > G >     printf("Spawn pid is %x Restat is = %d\n\n", spawn_pid, RetStat);   H Here you printf RetStat and spawn_pid of sys$creprc, but the results of   lib$spawn don't appear anywhere.  E > The strange thing is that the retstat is 1which is correct, but the ; > process is not executed/the log file is even not created.   H I would look at the accounting (sho accounting/proc/sin=.../bef=...) to F see if there is a priviledge problem. Look for the final status value.   Albrecht   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Apr 2006 07:47:11 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) " Subject: Re: Problems with $CREPRC3 Message-ID: <OPO1U6JfPjtc@eisner.encompasserve.org>   k In article <1145703898.109241.88220@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "Rajni" <rajni_chugh1@yahoo.com> writes: E >     RetStat = lib$spawn (&cmdStr, 0, 0, &FlagsMask, 0, &spawn_pid); I >     RetStat = sys$creprc(&spawn_pid, &image_name_d, &inparams, 0, 0, 0,  > 0,D >                                    &process_name_d, &cmdStr, 0, 0,G >                                  PRC$M_INTER|PRC$M_NOPASSWORD, 0, 0);   %    lib$spawn OR sys$creprc, not both.   '    And what is RetStat after lib$spawn?    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Apr 2006 09:29:08 -0700' From: "syslost" <wm.reynolds@gmail.com> ' Subject: Re: Replacing drives in bricks C Message-ID: <1145896148.688978.139380@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   5 I got a good number of orders, I'm working on them...   A I don't have a scale at work so it's going to be hard to estimate C shipping.  I'm going to have to drive into work and take them to my G house, to package, weight, and estimate shipping.  Which means Saturday # morning is the earliest I can ship.   = A few of the drives failed on the init, anyone want these for 
 container?  B Local pick-ups are good anytime this week, I think I sent my phone1 number, but if not email again, and I'll send it.    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 15:55:37 GMT , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>/ Subject: Re: required patches for other patches 2 Message-ID: <Zx63g.6738$Ll7.3438@news.cpqcorp.net>  / Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: G > I'm catching up on my ALPHA patches and VMS732_F11X wouldn't install:  > & >    *** KIT WILL NOT BE INSTALLED ***  I    What you discuss here is certainly conceptually possible -- but given  E my druthers, I'd tend to spend that time and effort that such a task  H would entail -- and would entail for each new ECO, of course -- working J on a replacement for the current ECO distribution and installation design.  # qv: http://www.hp.com/blogs/hoffman    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 10:14:41 +0100 0 From: Chris Sharman <chris.sharman@sorry.nospam>= Subject: Re: set file empty (dfu set <file>/eblock=1/ebyte=0) 4 Message-ID: <e2i4u1$ovp$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>   Dave Froble wrote: > Strictly curious.  > J > Why would you want to truncate an existing file and re-write it instead 4 > of just deleting the file and creating a new file? > C > It cannot be to re-use the existing allocated storage, since the  $ > truncate must release the storage.  C It's actually a newly created powerhouse subfile (with one rubbish  = record in it - a feature of the powerhouse creation process). B If I want to recreate it empty, I'd have to analyze/rms/fdl, then  create/fdl. I I just want to overwrite the rubbish with the real data I'm adding to it. G And yes, the /truncate is superfluous (or even counter-productive) for   my purposes.  
 Thanks All Chris    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 15:15:24 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) 7 Subject: Re: Strange behavior of DEFINE with equal-sign 2 Message-ID: <gY53g.6730$wp7.6411@news.cpqcorp.net>  D In article <1145479688.551072.158960@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>, / "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> writes:  >norm.raphael@metso.com wrote: .. >> ..then how do you reconcile >> $ name="Doug 1 >> $ write sys$output "Hello, my name is ''name'!  ..G >Well, I can't reconcile it. The two lines have missing closing quotes. H >The single-single symbol single example of symbol substitution within a7 >string is correct and logical and works as documented.    What's to reconcile?< DCL supplies a closing double-quote at the end of each line.G Not, in my opinion, good practice, but it works as [probably] expected.   	 More fun? ) Leave out the closing single quote.  i.e.        $ name="Doug1     $ write sys$output "Hello, my name is ''name!   C That works too -- DCL sees the "!" as terminating the symbol "name"  and supplies the closing "'".   @ ..but you're well advised to "follow the rules" for DCL syntax,  rather than relying on this.     --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 15:20:32 GMT 3 From: hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com (Charlie Hammond) 7 Subject: Re: Strange behavior of DEFINE with equal-sign 2 Message-ID: <4163g.6731$wp7.4557@news.cpqcorp.net>  P In article <OF7A192AD4.780532A7-ON85257155.0075935F-85257155.0076297A@metso.com,  norm.raphael@metso.com writes: 4 [I appologize if I've got the attrtibution wrong...}   ..A >No, it is not.  What is logical is 'name' outside double-quotes, C >and ''name'' inside double-quotes.  Dropping the last single-quote  >is not logical.  $ "Logic" has nothing to do with it.  + This is just the way DCL syntax is defined.   ; Another example (my personal favorite) is PURGE vs. DELETE. @ Look them up in a dictionary and have fun explaining the "logic" of the way DCL uses them.   C (BTW, if my memory is correct, HP's MPE 3000 used PURGE to mean the > same thing as DCL's DELETE.  There were no "version numbers".)   --  J       Charlie Hammond -- Hewlett-Packard Company -- Ft Lauderdale  FL  USAF           (hammond@not@peek.ssr.hp.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 12:15:39 +0200 , From: Albrecht Schlosser <ajs567@tiscali.de>& Subject: Re: Strange disk device state, Message-ID: <ig8i2e.ul9.ln@news.hus-soft.de>   Dave Froble wrote:  K > Steve and Rob will definitely be closer to understanding this than I am,  F > but a thought.  If the disk is truly dead, perhaps the system never K > received something it needed to dismount the disk.  I'd expect some type  H > of timeout to resolve this.  The reference count seems to be at least  > some part of the problem.  > H > I believe you mentioned that the disk was hot-swapable?  Why not just I > pull the bugger and insert a hopefully good disk.  Could be wrong, and  F > Steve and Rob seem to indicate that this may not work, but VMS just 9 > might surprise you once it can get the disk to respond.   G We did try that, and VMS _surprised_ me with a negative ref. count and  L the inability to recover the system with a new disk (without a reboot) :-( .  I But I don't want to speak bad of VMS - in my opinion and long experience  I with VMS almost nothing can kill a VMS system except hardware problems -   and here we have one.    Albrecht   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 12:36:15 +0200 , From: Albrecht Schlosser <ajs567@tiscali.de>& Subject: Re: Strange disk device state, Message-ID: <7n9i2e.8u9.ln@news.hus-soft.de>   glenn everhart wrote:  > Albrecht Schlosser wrote:  >> Problem summary:  >>G >> There is a disk that can't be accessed because the system gives the   >> error message:  >>? >> %SYSTEM-W-DEVALLOC, device already allocated to another user  >>J >> although it has been dismounted successfully. Device state is "online" 4 >> (not allocated). However, show device/full shows: >># >> Reference count       4294967295  >> >> which is hex FFFFFFFF, see: >> >> $ x = 4294967295  >> $ sho sym x1 >>   X = -1   Hex = FFFFFFFF  Octal = 37777777777  >>I >> History: The device has had lots of errors ( > 35000 ), and the error  J >> count has been reset. There was a process running (BADBLOCKSCAN), that I >> has been terminated with STOP/ID. The local system manager said, that  ( >> he did an ANA/DISK, but no ANA/MEDIA.   [...]   G > This looks like something decremented reference count without having  J > incremented it. Note that this may have happened long before the problemE > became apparent; if another process had incremented refcount first, G > or extra files were opened (bumping refcount more), the rogue process G > might have fiddled refcount long before without apparent consequence.    Yes, I see.   F > Thus anything that could have dropped into kernel mode and that was 3 > aborted would be a place to look for misbehavior.   E I aborted a process named BADBLOCKSCAN (or similar), that apparently  F hung and made the error count increase by 1 to 5 per second (I didn't  measure it).   > Ditto anything that D > might have had ability to alter kernel structures and was unusual. > F > If there's no longer a device lock on the device, I would guess thatJ > zeroing the refcount in the UCB would be safe. If a device lock is stillH > around for the device, that will need to be removed, a not easy thing.  ? But how would I find out? I'm not such an expert in ana/sys or  E ana/crash. And: would the system allow the disk to be dismounted, if   there was still a lock?   E > The error messages would cause me to go looking for a device lock;  J > suspect one is in there. (Assign channel locks disks; deassign unlocks.)I > However it would seem simplest to reboot and replace the bad drive ASAP ! > (not knowing your constraints.)  >  > Glenn Everhart  % Thanks to you and all who responded !    Albrecht   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 15:10:53 GMT , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>& Subject: Re: Strange disk device state2 Message-ID: <1U53g.6729$_97.3938@news.cpqcorp.net>   Albrecht Schlosser wrote:   ? > The device has had lots of errors ( > 35000 ), and the error  I > count has been reset. There was a process running (BADBLOCKSCAN), that  # > has been terminated with STOP/ID.   @    That STOP/ID ($delprc) of the bad block scan process is what G triggered the error here, BTW.  Deleting random system processes isn't  I something I'd tend to recommend, of course -- the system can (obviously)  F be left in an unexpected state, and (as a general rule) it's not good 4 for the long-term stability of the operating system.  H    The likely immediate official fix is obvious and two-fold: "reboot", H and "please don't do that", the secondary consideration is a site-local H policy discussion around around use of user privileges, as appropriate. G   (I tend to be relatively cavalier around my target-practice systems,  - but far more cautious on production systems.)   I    I don't know off-hand if there will be an update (tertiary fix) for a  C future release of OpenVMS -- this is the first time I've seen this  F particular case manifest itself, and there exist numerous paths where F privileged user can trigger unexpected or untoward behaviours, or can  render OpenVMS unstable.  H    The other consideration is also around disk replacement, as it would H appear that there is a hardware problem with the particular disk and/or F with other associated SCSI-storage-related components; a problem with D the storage brick, or with the I/O path out to the brick.   Bent or B otherwise damaged pins in a bus connector somewhere, for instance.  I    As for the "hot-swap", do realize it's not just the local disk that's  F involved with a swap on a non-serial SCSI bus, it's the other devices G (if any) on the SCSI bus.  The classic parallel SCSI bus (and even the  D classic parallel IDE/ATA/ATAPI bus) is a daisy-chain, and adding or G removing a device includes a make-break on the bus, and the change can  ! and does generate bus transients.   A    A serial SCSI bus (SAS) or a serial ATA/ATAPI bus uses a star  B topology, making it rather safer to swap the component -- if that @ particular component is truly quiescent, only the SAS (or SATA) ' controller then sees the bus transient.   <    Configurations that provide for a hot-swap on a parallel B configuration tend to include a way to quiesce the whole SCSI bus.  F    Now as to whether or not you can get away with a hot-swap on a bus I that is not truly quiescent, it's certainly quite possible that you will  I be able to swap the hardware and generate the transient when no critical  G I/O is in-flight on the bus.  Or you might corrupt a write to some key   disk block.   F    As a rule, I will only consider a hot-swap attempts (and then only H occasionally) on systems where I can also immediately reboot the system F if needed (and where I can entirely re-load the disks if that becomes I needed), or within a configuration where I can safely quiesce the entire   (parallel) SCSI bus.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 13:05:12 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> & Subject: Re: Strange disk device state, Message-ID: <444D0547.C5326C26@teksavvy.com>   Albrecht Schlosser wrote: F > No, no, no! As Hoff clearly said, there would be an opportunity thatI > this patching would lead to other bad and maybe unexpected effects. You J > can't know if these effects would show up immediately or maybe crash the > system at any time later.   E I was suggesting you try the patch a few minutes before the scheduled E downtime to see if it would have worked. At that point, if bad things + happen, you're ready to shutdown anyways...     D About  BADBLOCKSCAN:   *shame on you *, you should have known betterG than to STOP/ID on a process you know nothing about :-) :-) ;-) :-) :-)   D In hindsight, I would have tried to find out if it was attached to aF terminal (some command issued from DCL), what image it was running. ItE is possible that a <CTRL-Y>  from a terminal would have done a proper - image rundown with QIO channels de-assigned.      G However, thank you for sharing your experience because we can all learn  from it.    G I would be very interested to know if "BADBLOCKSCAN" would be something E that would be created automatically by VMS, or if it was perhaps some C software running on your system that kicked off a process that does G ANA/MEDIA (bad block locator utility) automatically when it sees errors 
 on a device ?   6 Or would it have been someone who issues the command ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 19:28:56 +0200 , From: Albrecht Schlosser <ajs567@tiscali.de>& Subject: Re: Strange disk device state, Message-ID: <vs1j2e.pke.ln@news.hus-soft.de>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Albrecht Schlosser wrote: G >> No, no, no! As Hoff clearly said, there would be an opportunity that J >> this patching would lead to other bad and maybe unexpected effects. YouK >> can't know if these effects would show up immediately or maybe crash the  >> system at any time later. > G > I was suggesting you try the patch a few minutes before the scheduled G > downtime to see if it would have worked. At that point, if bad things - > happen, you're ready to shutdown anyways...   E Yes, okay, but if it would have worked, I would have to shutdown the  H system, too, because I wouldn't know what could happen later. And since D I don't know how to access something in a device UCB in the running 7 system, it would have been useless work to find out :-(   F > About  BADBLOCKSCAN:   *shame on you *, you should have known betterI > than to STOP/ID on a process you know nothing about :-) :-) ;-) :-) :-)   
 got me ;-)  G But at that moment, when the disk was to be replaced, it looked like a  G way to stop the error count increasing and to prepare the system for a  G dismount and replacement of the disk. Without stopping the application  E software. Simply doing a reboot seemed not to be VMS-like for me. ;-)   F > In hindsight, I would have tried to find out if it was attached to aH > terminal (some command issued from DCL), what image it was running. ItG > is possible that a <CTRL-Y>  from a terminal would have done a proper / > image rundown with QIO channels de-assigned.   >  > I > However, thank you for sharing your experience because we can all learn 
 > from it.  ; I learned much, too, mainly because of Hoff's explanations.   I > I would be very interested to know if "BADBLOCKSCAN" would be something - > that would be created automatically by VMS,    me, too      or if it was perhaps some E > software running on your system that kicked off a process that does I > ANA/MEDIA (bad block locator utility) automatically when it sees errors  > on a device ?   J There is no software running that would do such things, except VMS itself.  8 > Or would it have been someone who issues the command ?  A I didn't, and the local system manager said, that he only did an   ana/disk, but no ana/media.    Albrecht   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 15:59:28 GMT , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>C Subject: Re: VAX/VMS 5.5-2, Disk to Disk backup / Disk name problem 2 Message-ID: <AB63g.6739$zq7.5501@news.cpqcorp.net>   mark_doherty@yahoo.co.uk wrote: G > We have bought some RF36 disks and proceeded to do standalone disk to  > disk backup with ...  A    What is the host system and the host DSSI controller involved?   F    The OpenVMS FAQ has the general write-up on accessing the DSSI ISE A parameters for the allocation class and the SCS node name, but...    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.227 ************************