1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 25 Apr 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 229       Contents: Re: File output like Unix  File output like Unix  Re: File output like Unix  Re: File output like Unix  Re: File output like Unix  Re: File output like Unix  Re: File output like Unix  Re: hypothetical question  Re: hypothetical question  Re: hypothetical question  Re: hypothetical question  Re: hypothetical question  Re: hypothetical question  Re: hypothetical question  RE: hypothetical question  Re: hypothetical question  Re: hypothetical question  Re: hypothetical question  Re: hypothetical question . Re: hypothetical question (BACKUP tp savesets)I Looking for simple DCL script to save/restore mounted form on print queue M Re: Looking for simple DCL script to save/restore mounted form on print queue M Re: Looking for simple DCL script to save/restore mounted form on print queue ) Re: OT: Scott McNeily steps down from SUN ) Re: OT: Scott McNeily steps down from SUN  Re: OT: Sparc not dead yet Re: OT: Sparc not dead yet Re: OT: Sparc not dead yet Re: OT: Sparc not dead yet RE: OT: Sparc not dead yet Re: OT: Sparc not dead yet Re: OT: Sparc not dead yet6 Re[2]: Heads up - new BACKUP kit - VMS732_BACKUP-V0500& Re: Spawn command in Asynchronous mode  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 25 Apr 2006 17:05:40 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)" Subject: Re: File output like Unix+ Message-ID: <4b7374Fvt6gnU2@individual.net>   B In article <1145984468.225812.93700@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, 	contracer11@gmail.com writes:D > Is there any way or free executable to use this command in VAX/VMS	 > 5.5-2 ?  >  > $ type file.txt > file2.txt  > 
 >    like  > ) > # cat file.txt > file2.txt (in Solaris)  >  > Thanks      COPY file.txt file2.txt   H Now, stop being like my students and tell us what you really want to do.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 25 Apr 2006 10:01:08 -0700 From: contracer11@gmail.com  Subject: File output like UnixB Message-ID: <1145984468.225812.93700@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>  B Is there any way or free executable to use this command in VAX/VMS 5.5-2 ?    $ type file.txt > file2.txt       like   ' # cat file.txt > file2.txt (in Solaris)    Thanks   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Apr 2006 13:06:19 -0500. From: brooks@cuebid.zko.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks)" Subject: Re: File output like Unix, Message-ID: <iZ9HSEQmipBi@cuebid.zko.hp.com>   contracer11@gmail.com writes: L > Is there any way or free executable to use this command in VAX/VMS 5.5-2 ? >  > $ type file.txt > file2.txt  > 
 >    like  > ) > # cat file.txt > file2.txt (in Solaris)   # $ TYPE FILE.TXT /OUTPUT = FILE2.TXT   J (if you really want to use the TYPE verb; most folks would choose the COPY verb).     --    H Rob Brooks    VMS Engineering -- Exec Group     brooks!cuebid.zko.hp.com   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Apr 2006 12:19:09 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) " Subject: Re: File output like Unix3 Message-ID: <IjE5+sWrjLz+@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <1145984468.225812.93700@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, contracer11@gmail.com writes:D > Is there any way or free executable to use this command in VAX/VMS	 > 5.5-2 ?  >  > $ type file.txt > file2.txt  > 
 >    like  > ) > # cat file.txt > file2.txt (in Solaris)   $    $ type file.txt /output=file2.txt  -   Yes, that will do something different from        $ copy file.txt file2.txt  A   in contrast to eunichs, the the above cat command has the same     result as       # cp file.txt file2.txt  I   Most VMS commands that you'll need to capture text output from have an  E   /output qualifier.  For those that don't you can either temporarily @   supercede the logical name sys$output, or you can get the freeD   implementation of PIPE for VMS 5 off the 'net, or upgrade to VMS 6   where PIPE is built in.    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Apr 2006 12:19:56 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) " Subject: Re: File output like Unix3 Message-ID: <93iODOoQt5OR@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <4b7374Fvt6gnU2@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >  > COPY file.txt file2.txt  >   D    That will not have the same result in some cases as type/output .   ------------------------------   Date: 25 Apr 2006 17:38:19 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)" Subject: Re: File output like Unix, Message-ID: <4b754aF101da8U2@individual.net>  , In article <iZ9HSEQmipBi@cuebid.zko.hp.com>,1 	brooks@cuebid.zko.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks) writes:  > contracer11@gmail.com writes: M >> Is there any way or free executable to use this command in VAX/VMS 5.5-2 ?  >>   >> $ type file.txt > file2.txt >>   >>    like   >>  * >> # cat file.txt > file2.txt (in Solaris) > % > $ TYPE FILE.TXT /OUTPUT = FILE2.TXT  > L > (if you really want to use the TYPE verb; most folks would choose the COPYL                                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^	 > verb).   ^^^^^^   9 Thats what I said, and I am still licking my wounds.  :-)    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 25 Apr 2006 17:35:40 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)" Subject: Re: File output like Unix, Message-ID: <4b74vcF101da8U1@individual.net>  3 In article <93iODOoQt5OR@eisner.encompasserve.org>, > 	koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:X > In article <4b7374Fvt6gnU2@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>   >> COPY file.txt file2.txt >>   > F >    That will not have the same result in some cases as type/output .  B Maybe, but he seems to be looking for an equivalent to the Solaris@ "cat file1 > file2" which will make a duplicate copy of the fileB with a new name.  Which, as I said, is probably not what he wants,B but I have already had two students today alone do pretty much theA same thing.  They use a paragraph to ask a question that required  no more than a sentence!!    bill      --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 05:54:26 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing)" Subject: Re: hypothetical question6 Message-ID: <00A54B7A.803F86B5@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  d In article <444d262e@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@hp.com> writes:; >If I could make your BACKUP operations complete faster.... < >2-5 times faster....but restrict this feature for save-sets8 >written to disks only (not to support it with save-sets0 >written to tapes).....would you find it useful?  @ Probably, especially if I could later copy the savesets to tape.   -- Alan    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 12:43:59 +0300 7 From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@hp.com> " Subject: Re: hypothetical question* Message-ID: <444def62@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  4 "Dave Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message) news:H4idnUWqcNQzO9DZRVn-tw@libcom.com...  > Guy Peleg wrote:> > > If I could make your BACKUP operations complete faster....? > > 2-5 times faster....but restrict this feature for save-sets ; > > written to disks only (not to support it with save-sets 3 > > written to tapes).....would you find it useful?  > > % > > I'm looking for yes/no answer....  > > + > > Please do not ask for more details..... 5 > > Please do not speculate.....it will be clear soon  > > ? > > I'm unable to provide any further information at this point  > >  > > Thank you !  > > 
 > > Guy Peleg  > > OpenVMS Engineering  > > E > > (Please do not re-post this in any other forum, I chose c.o.v. on  purpose) > >  > >  >  > The answer is always 'Yes'.  > J > However, you didn't say anything about the location of the disks.  MaybeI > with some of the newer FC stuff it isn't an issue.  I'm backing up over J > an Ethernet network to disks on another system.  Would such be affected?  J I did not give any details on purpose....Network operations will benefit a lot  from what I have  in mind.  ) Again sorry for not providing details....    >  > --  6 > David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04506 > Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596@ > DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com > 170 Grimplin Road  > Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 12:45:08 +0300 7 From: "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@hp.com> " Subject: Re: hypothetical question, Message-ID: <444defa6$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message& news:444D9BB8.7423A4A2@teksavvy.com... > Guy Peleg wrote: > " > > Thank you for the feedback !!! > > 0 > > Sorry for being cryptic....more details soon > G > Would you have achieved the same goal if you had asked if users would 5 > like a program to generate winning lottery numbers?   B If I could do that.....c.o.v was the last place on earth you could find me ;-)    > D > i.e. was the goal of sending this only to c.o.v. to gauge how many > responses you would have ?  + There are no managers lurking on c.o.v. ;-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 11:16:08 +0100 . From: "Tim Jackson" <nobody(at)baesystems.com>" Subject: Re: hypothetical question1 Message-ID: <444df458$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net>   C "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@hp.com> wrote in message  $ news:444d262e@usenet01.boi.hp.com...< > If I could make your BACKUP operations complete faster....= > 2-5 times faster....but restrict this feature for save-sets 9 > written to disks only (not to support it with save-sets 1 > written to tapes).....would you find it useful?  > # > I'm looking for yes/no answer....  > ) > Please do not ask for more details..... 3 > Please do not speculate.....it will be clear soon  > = > I'm unable to provide any further information at this point  > 
 > Thank you !  >  > Guy Peleg  > OpenVMS Engineering  > L > (Please do not re-post this in any other forum, I chose c.o.v. on purpose) >  >    Yes.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 12:18:11 +0200 , From: Albrecht Schlosser <ajs567@tiscali.de>" Subject: Re: hypothetical question, Message-ID: <81tk2e.btm.ln@news.hus-soft.de>   Guy Peleg wrote:< > If I could make your BACKUP operations complete faster....= > 2-5 times faster....but restrict this feature for save-sets 9 > written to disks only (not to support it with save-sets 1 > written to tapes).....would you find it useful?  > # > I'm looking for yes/no answer....    Yes, of course!   B Some of our customers use backup to disk savesets, and this would ) dramatically reduce backup/offline times.    Albrecht   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 18:18:34 +0800 3 From: "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> " Subject: Re: hypothetical question1 Message-ID: <e2kt02$rs2$1@news-02.connect.com.au>    Hi Guy,   - > There are no managers lurking on c.o.v. ;-)   < Engineering's roll-call 's not what it used to be either :-(   Regards Richard Maher   B "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@hp.com> wrote in message& news:444defa6$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com... > < > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message( > news:444D9BB8.7423A4A2@teksavvy.com... > > Guy Peleg wrote: > > $ > > > Thank you for the feedback !!! > > > 2 > > > Sorry for being cryptic....more details soon > > I > > Would you have achieved the same goal if you had asked if users would 7 > > like a program to generate winning lottery numbers?  > D > If I could do that.....c.o.v was the last place on earth you could
 > find me ;-)  >  > > F > > i.e. was the goal of sending this only to c.o.v. to gauge how many > > responses you would have ? > - > There are no managers lurking on c.o.v. ;-)  >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 13:04:53 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> " Subject: Re: hypothetical question: Message-ID: <29459$444e0256$50db5015$8300@news.hispeed.ch>   Guy Peleg wrote:< > If I could make your BACKUP operations complete faster....= > 2-5 times faster....but restrict this feature for save-sets 9 > written to disks only (not to support it with save-sets 1 > written to tapes).....would you find it useful?  > # > I'm looking for yes/no answer....  >    A resounding YES here :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 07:31:28 -0400 1 From: "Farrell, Michael" <MFarrell@Voltdelta.com> " Subject: RE: hypothetical questionL Message-ID: <085BCCCF596B684092B66310B1D3BA7D023261FC@NJ103EX1.EAST.VIS.COM>   Yes. =20  G Especially since we then transmit these on disk savesets over a network  to our remote systems.   Mike   -----Original Message-----? From: Guy Peleg [mailto:guy.peleg@remove_this_header@hp.com]=20 $ Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 3:26 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  Subject: hypothetical question  : If I could make your BACKUP operations complete faster....; 2-5 times faster....but restrict this feature for save-sets 7 written to disks only (not to support it with save-sets / written to tapes).....would you find it useful?   ! I'm looking for yes/no answer....   ' Please do not ask for more details..... 1 Please do not speculate.....it will be clear soon   ; I'm unable to provide any further information at this point    Thank you !   	 Guy Peleg  OpenVMS Engineering   A (Please do not re-post this in any other forum, I chose c.o.v. on  purpose)   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Apr 2006 14:07:33 +0200/ From: huber@NIRWANA-mppmu.mpg.de (Joseph Huber) " Subject: Re: hypothetical question+ Message-ID: <yra1v76$tcKq@vms.mppmu.mpg.de>   d In article <444d262e@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@hp.com> writes:   No     --  @    Joseph Huber , Muenchen,Germany:  http://www.huber-joseph.de/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 13:32:19 +0100 / From: "R.A.Omond" <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.UK.Com> " Subject: Re: hypothetical question4 Message-ID: <e2l4sj$2jc$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>   Dave Froble wrote:   > The answer is always 'Yes'.  > K > However, you didn't say anything about the location of the disks.  Maybe  J > with some of the newer FC stuff it isn't an issue.  I'm backing up over J > an Ethernet network to disks on another system.  Would such be affected?  C This is what I'd be most interested in too.  I'd like it to be fast * enough to make the network the bottleneck.   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Apr 2006 07:59:21 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) " Subject: Re: hypothetical question3 Message-ID: <hKJBIDV22by8@eisner.encompasserve.org>   d In article <444d262e@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, "Guy Peleg" <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@hp.com> writes:< > If I could make your BACKUP operations complete faster....= > 2-5 times faster....but restrict this feature for save-sets 9 > written to disks only (not to support it with save-sets       YES.    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Apr 2006 06:02:06 -0700 From: jonard@xlnsystems.com " Subject: Re: hypothetical questionC Message-ID: <1145970126.739340.326780@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>    Guy Peleg wrote:< > If I could make your BACKUP operations complete faster.... > 2-5 times faster....   YES!   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 08:00:12 -0400 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>7 Subject: Re: hypothetical question (BACKUP tp savesets) ; Message-ID: <444DD70C.15171.3875B4A@squayle.insight.rr.com>   7 In article <444d262e@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, "Guy Peleg"  - <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@hp.com> writes: F > If I could make your BACKUP operations complete faster.... 2-5 timesI > faster....but restrict this feature for save-sets written to disks only H > (not to support it with save-sets written to tapes).....would you find > it useful?      A Absolutely.  Most of my CHARON-VAX customers [Shameless Plug(tm)  E Alert] do a disk-to-saveset backup, and then either FTP the savesets  C (possibly after doing a ZIP) or dismount the virtual disk and have   the host side back it up.   
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------8 Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  Toll free: 1-888-I-LUV-VAX3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA < stan-at-stanq-dot-com   http://www.stanq.com/charon-vax.html) "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option"    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 09:40:09 -0400  From: norm.raphael@metso.comR Subject: Looking for simple DCL script to save/restore mounted form on print queueQ Message-ID: <OF871CD57D.F3174E9D-ON8525715B.004A8F12-8525715B.004B1697@metso.com>   ; I need a simple DCL script to save/restore the mounted form 9 on a print queue.  Digging it out of F$GETQUI stuff looks  really painful.    I have  E Printer queue SHP5, idle, on NODEA::NLP30:, mounted form MFG_PICKLIST -   /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /DEFAULT=(FORM=WORKORDERS)   C and I want to save the mounted_form_name, set the form to something : else for printing and later restore the mounted_form_name.  / Nothing fancy and I know the name of the queue.    -Norm    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Apr 2006 16:22:25 +01006 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)V Subject: Re: Looking for simple DCL script to save/restore mounted form on print queue, Message-ID: <444e4cc1$1@news.langstoeger.at>  p In article <OF871CD57D.F3174E9D-ON8525715B.004A8F12-8525715B.004B1697@metso.com>, norm.raphael@metso.com writes:< >I need a simple DCL script to save/restore the mounted form: >on a print queue.  Digging it out of F$GETQUI stuff looks >really painful.   What's wrong with   A $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$GETQUI ("DISPLAY_QUEUE", "FORM_NAME", queue)    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 10:53:50 -0400  From: norm.raphael@metso.comV Subject: Re: Looking for simple DCL script to save/restore mounted form on print queueQ Message-ID: <OF1CDAB2ED.73F629BB-ON8525715B.0051B512-8525715B.0051D57E@metso.com>   D peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER) wrote on 04/25/2006 11:22:25 AM:  ? > In article <OF871CD57D.F3174E9D-ON8525715B.004A8F12-8525715B. 5 > 004B1697@metso.com>, norm.raphael@metso.com writes: > > >I need a simple DCL script to save/restore the mounted form< > >on a print queue.  Digging it out of F$GETQUI stuff looks > >really painful. >  > What's wrong with  > C > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$GETQUI ("DISPLAY_QUEUE", "FORM_NAME", queue) ) Thanks.  I knew it was simple; I said so.  A form of that works just fine.    >  > -- > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER ' > Network and OpenVMS system specialist  > E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atH > A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Apr 2006 06:45:27 -0700- From: "Andrew" <andrew_harrison@symantec.com> 2 Subject: Re: OT: Scott McNeily steps down from SUNC Message-ID: <1145972727.126211.227670@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    JF Mezei wrote: G > In case you had not heard Scott McNealey has announced he is stepping G > down as CEO, remaining as chairman of the board. Jonathan Swartz taks  > his spot as CEO. >  > O > http://news.com.com/McNealy+steps+down+at+Sun/2100-1014_3-6064499.html?tag=nl  >  > I > Does this increase the chances that SUN might rescue VMS from HP ?  :-)    No   >  >  > You might also wish to read: > c > http://news.com.com/Say+what+A+look+back+at+McNealy+zingers/2100-1014_3-6064563.html?tag=nefd.top  > F > This guys has more respect than Carly ever had.  I may disagree withF > some of hos opinions, but I respect a guy who is willing to stand up* > agianst Microsoft to defend his company.   Yes    Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 12:20:46 -0400 * From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com>2 Subject: Re: OT: Scott McNeily steps down from SUN* Message-ID: <444e4c5f@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  8 "Andrew" <andrew_harrison@symantec.com> wrote in message= news:1145972727.126211.227670@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...  >  > JF Mezei wrote: I > > In case you had not heard Scott McNealey has announced he is stepping I > > down as CEO, remaining as chairman of the board. Jonathan Swartz taks  > > his spot as CEO. > >  > >  > > M http://news.com.com/McNealy+steps+down+at+Sun/2100-1014_3-6064499.html?tag=nl  > >  > > K > > Does this increase the chances that SUN might rescue VMS from HP ?  :-)  >  > No >   H Agreed.  It increases the chances that Sun will have drastic cuts and beL prepared to be taken over by someone else - in whole or in parts.  I imagineL Fujutsu may be interested in parts or all of it.  A competitor might want it) to shutdown, merge and migrate the users.   G All of this may be good for shareholders (who have seen the stock value I plunge and then never recover, and who see no return to profitability and I shareholder value increase).  But there are very few ways to spin this as  good news for the customers.   > >  > >   > > You might also wish to read: > >  > > a http://news.com.com/Say+what+A+look+back+at+McNealy+zingers/2100-1014_3-6064563.html?tag=nefd.top  > > H > > This guys has more respect than Carly ever had.  I may disagree withH > > some of hos opinions, but I respect a guy who is willing to stand up, > > agianst Microsoft to defend his company. >  > Yes  >   L I think you will find this a universal opinion.  People might not agree withI everything he believes, says and does - but there is a lot of respect for K him and what he has accomplished - and his fight to try to turn the company J around without gutting it.  In the end it looks like he is getting the Ken Olsen treatment.   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Apr 2006 07:49:41 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) # Subject: Re: OT: Sparc not dead yet 3 Message-ID: <DPOkCNgAsuaG@eisner.encompasserve.org>   a In article <yZoxij5kAZ1s@eisner.encompasserve.org>, young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:  > D > 	Of course, they aren't out of business yet.  My overarching pointC > 	is compared to others, Sun is going in the wrong direction.  The ( > 	paradigm is shifting, they missed it.  H    Today we read that Scott McNealy stepped back.  Sun's biggest problemH    today is that they never got into bed with Microsoft.  IBM just sold G    thier money loosing PC business, now thier income is down but thier  J    profits are up.  Sun has no money loosing PC business to sell so thier E    four year record of running with no profits is likely to continue.   B    Recently I've been hearing that Dell is having trouble making a    profit in the PC business.   G    HP's board showed signs of grey matter when they threw out Carly for D    making a bigger money loosing PC company out of two smaller money9    loosing PC companies.  When will HP wake up some more?    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Apr 2006 07:56:46 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) # Subject: Re: OT: Sparc not dead yet 3 Message-ID: <ofPChH8b$wie@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <444D2959.AE828B09@tekksavy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@tekksavy.com> writes: > J > However, what is different from DEC's actiosn at the top of its heydays,E > SUN is taking fairly drastic actions to remain competitive, such as I > offering Solaris for free. Is it enough ? I don't know. But it seems to 8 > me that Sun is taking its competition very seriously.   F    Sun's going to make huge profits giving away its product?  DEC died@    trying to make computers when its real product was software.   D    Microsoft is the only one making money in the PC business because)    they know the market is in software.     H    Sun would be much better off charging for Solaris and shipping it on 8    non-profit hardware.  So would HP with HP-UX and VMS.  B    Software and service is where the money is, not hardware sales.   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Apr 2006 06:31:24 -0700- From: "Andrew" <andrew_harrison@symantec.com> # Subject: Re: OT: Sparc not dead yet B Message-ID: <1145971884.492346.20020@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   FredK wrote:H > "AlexNOSPAMDaniels@themail.co.uk" <alexdaniels@themail.co.uk> wrote inG > message news:1145903812.945716.230940@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... 2 > > "Andrew" <andrew_harrison@symantec.com> wrote:  > > > bob@instantwhip.com wrote:K > > >> OpenVMS meets those requirements so why run garbage aix and slowaris  > > >>L > > > Actually it doesn't if a CPU fails on an OpenVMS box then the box will7 > > > always reboot, that is not the case with Solaris. 
 > > <SNIP> > > H > > VMS will not "always reboot" if a CPU fails, if CPU 0 fails sure VMS! > > will crash, any other CPU no.  > > B > > I struggle to think of a SMP Alpha where this is not the case. > > K > > Also on a number of Alpha's it's possible to hot-swap failed CPUs, I've B > > had that done a number of times, in the production day, with a! > > production workload going on.  > >  > K > I'm struggling to understand the context of the comments.  On pretty much M > any SMP architecture - except perhaps a non-stop system running in lockstep K > (and NSK is *not* SMP) - the only CPU failure modes that can safely allow K > the system (or hard partition) to continue running safely are things like N > excessive correctable b-cache errors.  That is, a *hard* failure of a CPU orL > even a thread (in a threaded CPU) can leave the system in an unpredictableA > state.  This is true for any CPU in the system, not just CPU 0.  >   D On Solaris it depends on what that thread is doing, if it is in user= land then the system does not have to reboot, instead Solaris F blacklists the CPU and restarts the process and process tree dependant" on the process/thread that failed.  F If the CPU was running a kernel thread then Solaris like any other SMP9 OS crashes and reboots having blacklisted the failed CPU.   J > If a CPU is having a high number of correctable errors, we have softwareL > that can detect it and remove the CPU from the active set - except for theN > primary CPU (normally CPU 0 -- we have not done the work to switch primariesN > on the fly).  Of course - hard *and* soft CPU (excessive correctable errors)N > failures are very rare.  I believe there is firmware that will prevent a CPUF > that has been flagged as failed from starting up on the next reboot.L > Automatic reboot is a firmware setting, you can also choose to simply stay > halted in the firmware.  >   / Again most high end OS's have this capbilility.   L > Hot swapping a CPU is possible on some Alpha platforms - but every time weI > ask customers if they would use it - they tell us that they would never M > allow a system component like a CPU or an IO controller to be yanked during L > production.  They would schedule controller/CPU swaps during a maintenanceE > shutdown.  In my experience - CPU/Memory/IO controller failures are M > typically catestrophic failures (non-recoverable) and usually happen when a K > system is first started, and rarely occur after a system has been running L > for some period of time.  Software failures are a much higher probability. >   D This has been a standard feature of mid-high end Solaris systems forF years and I have worked with a number of customers who make active use of this.  K > To be honest - hot-swap IO/CPU/Memory is mostly marketing gimmick.  Their M > failures are rare - and usually not soft-detectable (non-catestrophic).  It J > is external devices - like cables and disks that are more likely to fail? > during operation - as someone trips over a cable for example.   E Don't just think hot swap on failure, also think hot upgrade as well. > As I said earlier while I was at Sun I worked with a number ofC customers who made use of this capability which at worst makes it a  usefull marketing gimmick.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------    Date: 25 Apr 2006 06:38:31 -0700- From: "Andrew" <andrew_harrison@symantec.com> # Subject: Re: OT: Sparc not dead yet B Message-ID: <1145972311.874518.93090@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   bob@instantwhip.com wrote: > Bill Todd wrote: > > L > > You might enjoy learning how z-series mainframes handle this, then.  zOSL > > has extensive recovery facilities even for such hard CPU errors, withoutK > > operating in lock-step (but with a *lot* of state that can help recover J > > from whatever the failed CPU was doing, plus extensive internal checksL > > in the processor to help catch failures before any external state can beI > > affected by them).  For example, it can ascertain whether the CPU was G > > executing system or process code at the time of failure, and if the J > > latter just evict the process and let the rest of the system continue.J > > And IIRC additional mechanisms handle hard memory failures by figuringG > > out exactly what the failed memory could have affected and limiting  > > losses to that.  > > H > > Normally, I wouldn't tend to advocate attempting such fix-ups ratherH > > than restarting with a clean slate, but in the mainframe world 'highL > > availability' is not just a statistic - and IBM seems to have managed toF > > pull this off (not that I'd trust many other people to be able to:) > > they've spent decades perfecting it).  > >  > I > they have had too ... I spent a month on an AS400 and had three crashes D > none of which were ever explained ... never had a crash on vms ...  ? AS400 and Zos are entirely different OS's and run on completely  different system platforms.    regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 12:11:05 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> # Subject: RE: OT: Sparc not dead yet T Message-ID: <FA60F2C4B72A584DBFC6091F6A2B868401300FBD@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----* > From: AlexNOSPAMDaniels@themail.co.uk=20' > [mailto:alexdaniels@themail.co.uk]=20  > Sent: April 24, 2006 5:35 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com % > Subject: Re: OT: Sparc not dead yet  >=20 > Main, Kerry wrote: >=20> > > If you have an active-active OpenVMS cluster with a DLM=20 > managing access G > > to cluster files and print/batch jobs, then you can schedule entire H > > systems to be brought down for proactive maint and/or upgrades - all1 > > with zero impact on application availability.  > > = > > Simply set a flag at the OS level which causes all new=20  > connections to go = > > to other servers and when all current connections have=20  > finished on thatF > > one server, simply shut the server down for the planned fix and/or? > > upgrade. When the server reboots, it again starts taking=20  > its connectionD > > and processing loads. [Batch jobs need to be considered as well] >=20G > I've implimented Load Broker and supplimented it with LAN/IP failover % > for more clusters than I can count.  >=20F > However you still need to wait for all the existing users to log offE > and batch jobs to finish. Performance and/or availablity is reduced @ > during this time.Being able to hot-swap a PCI-X card, would=20
 > be, I would  > image, perferable. >=20  F Yes, you do have to wait for users to log off, connections finish, andH batch jobs to complete, but for most environments, this is not an issue.H If you have long running batch jobs (multiple days), then that obviouslyG needs to be considered, but imho, and I know every applic is different, G but that also would require batch job design anyway as anything running 0 that long should have some checkpointing anyway.  G Would you be willing to pay extra for this hot swap capability vs using G VMS servers on std HW (cheaper) and simply shutdown servers proactively D later that day? Since replacing a card in a set might only take 5-10F minutes and since PCI cards do not fail that often and since notifyingG users is not required with this solution (use load balancing to achieve E zero availability impact), would this not be a more effective overall 	 solution?   F On one engagement, I setup a 3 node very mission mission critical ES45 OpenVMS cluster whereby:G - 2 prod nodes designed to carry 100% of peak interactive loads in case F 1 was not available. One node was batch node for background reporting.( Two nodes were production for end users.B - NIC Teaming (used TCPware V5.6-2 mind you on this project) for 3F separate VLANS on each server. Used dual NIC cards with each VLAN port? being on different card and PCI channel than its mate. Provided 0 transparent fail-over + transmit load balancing.A - dual SAN FC cards (2Gb cards were less than 10% taxed even when 5 servers were extremely busy with CPU and IO loads.=20 @ - all NIC and SAN card loads split across multiple PCI buses.=20D - dual Cisco routers trunked with one port of each VLAN connected to each.=20    A > > If you have this capability, local HW hot-swapping becomes=20  > much less ofH > > an issue. Especially if FC/NIC adapters are implemented with teaming? > > design. If one adapter fails, simply schedule a time for=20  > the system to @ > > be taken down and have it replaced. Since you do not need=20
 > to tell end 6 > > users about this server going, they will not care. >=20G > Been working with peecee's lately? I didn't know the "teaming" phrase ? > had made it to VMS. I thought in terms of NICs we said LAN=20  > failover and > Failsafe IP? >=20  H See above. With that project I worked on, using TCPware, we were able toC telnet to a server, start a monitor system type command to generate A activity, pull the associated NIC cable and the session continued E running after only about a 2-3 second pause. No errors and no loss of H data. With TCPware, we could see that the NIC failed over properly. ThisH also supported fail-back as well i.e. when we re-connected the NIC cableE after a 2-3 second pause, the connection automatically failed back to  the original port.    E > As I'm sure your aware FailSafe IP also gives you added performance H > benfits for your outgoing traffic, if there in the same subnet. LosingE > a card drops your performance. And yes the obvious workaround is to > > deploy FailSafe on top of LAN Failover, with the added cost. >   H As you indicated, the loss is in transmit only i.e. perhaps if you had aH big FTP background load, there might be some loss, but remember that theE overall load is also split across the other servers in the cluster as E well. I doubt end users would notice the impact of one NIC failing on 3 one server in the cluster when its mate takes over.  =20 = > FC cards same issue, you lose performance, possible path=20  > changes across > the cluster et al. >=20  H Heck, the 2Gb cards I have used for the last 2 years or so have not beenF pushed at all - even with high IO loads. Yes, there might be some path? changes, but that is transparent to applications and end users.     E > So yes one can wait for the users/batch jobs to finish, then drop a H > node, but it's not ideal and customers are left having to puchase more' > hardware to mitigate for these times.  >=20  G That's what mission critical Customers do as part of their base design. E In most Cust environments I have seen, normal users tend to logout at E 5-8:00pm or they get disconnected for security reasons i.e. forgot to  logout before heading home.   D In another Cust environment, using this same strategy i.e. using stdG Alpha servers in a 3 node cluster, they would set the interactive flags F and batch jobs up before going home and then shut that one server downE at 9:00AM the next day for the planned quick maint or upgrade i.e. in G prime time just after the all the users have logged on (7-8:30 was that D time). Their reasoning was that this reduced overtime and provided aD better work environment for their IT staff as they did not need them, working late or on weekends all the time.=20  D Perhaps shutting servers down in prime time is not for everyone, butF this Cust really loved not having to tell end users a server was goingA down because planned downtime that impacted end users was next to  impossible to schedule.    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------   Date: 25 Apr 2006 16:45:46 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) # Subject: Re: OT: Sparc not dead yet + Message-ID: <4b721qFvt6gnU1@individual.net>   * In article <444e4d5d@usenet01.boi.hp.com>,- 	"FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> writes:  > : > "Andrew" <andrew_harrison@symantec.com> wrote in message> > news:1145982089.036575.42280@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... >> >> FredK wrote: = >> > "Andrew" <andrew_harrison@symantec.com> wrote in message A >> > news:1145971884.492346.20020@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...  >> > > >> > >K >> > > On Solaris it depends on what that thread is doing, if it is in user D >> > > land then the system does not have to reboot, instead SolarisM >> > > blacklists the CPU and restarts the process and process tree dependant ) >> > > on the process/thread that failed.  >> > > >> >I >> > If the "thread" hangs (becomes non-responsive from the view of other I >> > processors) how can you be assured that the thread is not A) holding  > dirty L >> > data that at some point might corrupt process data or B) hasn't already >> > corrupted something.  >> >C >> Since Solaris knows the dependencies between threads/processes a D >> process that fails because of a hardware failure will trigger theB >> termination of all dependent process/threads and their restart. >>J >> You application may well stop but you have not had to take a reboot hit >> at the same time..  >> > J > The amazing thing is that it must be common enough for it to have been a# > problem that needed to be solved.    K Boy, if Sparcs leaked gasoline you would complain the octane was too high!! J Anticipating something that may or may not ever happen but would have hard! impact if it did is a good thing.   I I haven't had a flat tire on the last five or six cars I  have owned, but I I am not going to stop carrying a spare, no matter how rare the occurance  may be.     bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 25 Apr 2006 09:21:29 -0700- From: "Andrew" <andrew_harrison@symantec.com> # Subject: Re: OT: Sparc not dead yet B Message-ID: <1145982089.036575.42280@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   FredK wrote:: > "Andrew" <andrew_harrison@symantec.com> wrote in message> > news:1145971884.492346.20020@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > >  > > H > > On Solaris it depends on what that thread is doing, if it is in userA > > land then the system does not have to reboot, instead Solaris J > > blacklists the CPU and restarts the process and process tree dependant& > > on the process/thread that failed. > >  > F > If the "thread" hangs (becomes non-responsive from the view of otherL > processors) how can you be assured that the thread is not A) holding dirtyI > data that at some point might corrupt process data or B) hasn't already  > corrupted something. > @ Since Solaris knows the dependencies between threads/processes aA process that fails because of a hardware failure will trigger the ? termination of all dependent process/threads and their restart.   G You application may well stop but you have not had to take a reboot hit  at the same time..   regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 11:05:47 +0500 4 From: Valentin Likoum <valentin.likoum@ncc.volga.ru>? Subject: Re[2]: Heads up - new BACKUP kit - VMS732_BACKUP-V0500 4 Message-ID: <1145521608.20060425110547@ncc.volga.ru>  B On 24/04/06 Guy Peleg <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@hp.com> wrote:    C > "Valentin Likoum" <valentin.likoum@ncc.volga.ru> wrote in message 0 > news:1927636503.20060424142405@ncc.volga.ru...E >> On 14/03/06 Guy Peleg <guy.peleg@remove_this_header@hp.com> wrote:  >> >> > Hello,  >>C >> > I thought you might be interested to know that we are about to : >> > ship a new BACKUP ECO for V73-2 - VMS732_BACKUP-V0500 >> > (1-2 weeks)A >> > The new kit contains several interesting fixes/enhancements: 	 >> [snip] B >> > * Dynamic Volume Expansion support - BACKUP currently ignoresE >> > Dynamic Volume Expansion (DVE) characteristics of a device. With J >> > the new kit, backup will preserve the expansion size and if requestedI >> > the logical size of a device. Two new qualifiers been added - /LIMIT B >> > and /SIZE to allow overriding defaults stored in the saveset.	 >> [snip]  >>@ >>    But how this preservation is supposed to work? I tried it: >> >> $!  init destination disk* >> $ init/stru=5/clus=32/limit dka500: tmp >> $ sho dev dka500:/full  >>D >> Disk $7$DKA500: (XXX7), device type COMPAQ BD018635C4, is online, > allocated,	 >> [snip] ; >>  Total blocks        35565080  Sectors per track     254 : >>  Total cylinders         7001  Tracks per cylinder   20B >>  Logical Volume Size 35565080  Expansion Size Limit  2151546880B >> [snip]               ^^^^^^^^                        ^^^^^^^^^^@ >>                      |---------  so far so good ------------| >> >> $!  check source disk >> $ sho dev dsa0:/full  >>A >> Disk DSA0:, device type COMPAQ BD01864552, is online, mounted,  > file-oriented I >>     device, shareable, available to cluster, error logging is enabled,  > device, >>     supports bitmaps (no bitmaps active). >>: >>  Total blocks        35565080 Sectors per track     254: >>  Total cylinders         7001 Tracks per cylinder    20? >>  Logical Volume Size 35565080 Expansion Size Limit  39997440 	 >> [snip]  >>) >> $! now try to test DVE-friendly BACKUP E >> $ back/ver/ign=int dsa0: $7$dka500: /ima /noinit /limit=2151546880 E >> %BACKUP-I-LOGNOTPRES, logical volume size of volume $7$DKA500: not  > preserved  !  Why?L >> %BACKUP-I-EXTINDEXF, INDEXF.SYS on device $7$DKA500: has been extended to
 > accommodate  >> restored files  >> ... >> $ sho dev dka500:/full  >>D >> Disk $7$DKA500: (XXX7), device type COMPAQ BD018635C4, is online, > allocated,	 >> [snip] 9 >>  Total blocks        35565080 Sectors per track    254 9 >>  Total cylinders         7001 Tracks per cylinder   20 > >>  Logical Volume Size 35565080 Expansion Size Limit 37617664? >> [snip]               ^^^^^^^^                      ^^^^^^^^^ = >>                          |-------  Oops, where  ---------| 5 >>                                  my limit gone to?  >>A >> VMS 7.3-2. VMS732_UPDATE V6.0 and VMS732_BACKUP V5.0 installed  >>@ >>   So was DVE functionality excluded from the final release ofB >> BACKUP-V0500 or I do anything wrong? I tried backup with /LIMITH >> qualifier without value and /LIMIT=2151546880. No luck in both cases. >>   Thank you.  >>   > Drop the /NOINI qualifier        Sorry, it didn't help    Destination disk BEFORE backup:   L Disk $7$DKA500: (XXX7), device type COMPAQ BD018635C4, is online, allocated, ..O     Total blocks            35565080    Sectors per track                   254 O     Total cylinders             7001    Tracks per cylinder                  20 O     Logical Volume Size     35565080    Expansion Size Limit         2151546880  ..    6 $ back/ign=int dsa0: $7$dka500: /ima /limit=2151546880= $! also tried with /limit without value; no /NOINIT qualifier      Destination disk AFTER backup:  L Disk $7$DKA500: (XXX7), device type COMPAQ BD018635C4, is online, allocated, ..O     Total blocks            35565080    Sectors per track                   254 O     Total cylinders             7001    Tracks per cylinder                  20 O     Logical Volume Size     35565080    Expansion Size Limit           39997440  ..  A   Expansion Size Limit = 39997440 is a bit more than in case with C /NOINIT qualifier (37617664) but still no good. What else can help? F   My task is to migrate from local disk to the bigger EVA-based Vdisk.D Source local disk (10Gb) was initialized without /LIMIT qualifier so? there isn't expansion limit. Dest vdisk (40Gb) initialized with B maximum expansion limit (1Tb). Shadowing with DDS (create set fromC local disk and add vdisk to set after) didn't help much - resulting @ volume is small (10Gb) and doesn't have expansion limit like theC source local disk (as expected). Image backup doesn't seem to be my : friend also. What else? Non-image backup? For system disk?    --  
 Best regards, #  Valentin                           (  valentin.likoum at ncc dot volga dot ru   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 09:46:58 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> / Subject: Re: Spawn command in Asynchronous mode 9 Message-ID: <L56dnV7lXdAPutPZnZ2dnUVZ_umdnZ2d@libcom.com>    Rajni wrote:	 > Hi All,  > > > We want to run a C code from Uniface program  on OPen VMS in > asynchronous mode. >  > Platform - OpenVMS: > We are running a spawn command from the uniface program. > % > ;spawn_str = "%%spawn_str %%$LIST$"  > D > When I do spawn ----C pgm-----, it runs the program in synchronous > mode.  > H > But I want to run this C pgm in Asynch mode, as per the documentation,+ > if I use PIPE (-------)&, it doesnt work. 0 > ;spawn_str = "PIPE ( %%spawn_str %%$LIST$ ) &" > A > Could some one please let me know how to run it in asynch mode? E > Please let  me know what should be the spwan command syntax in this  > case.  > 
 > Regards, > Rajni. >   @ The first thing you need to do is learn to use the HELP command!  D Once you do that, you'll read about the /NOWAIT qualifier for SPAWN.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com 170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.229 ************************                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                6lQ\?TDSLΠSD]IRpĦ_˿?+]ϰ?W\Yf"*Eowt6;ʜ;AVv[{}T}xyYSmG,}gZ̟+e*Zm^i}okĎe+khXx2[kdR9=ɡ.xyKSK`̂0aG1fOqjӑn5y^Y/çv#,<]TE~vRDF0Q--O[ޡDX:t[/WxgZ
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