1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 12 Aug 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 446       Contents: Re: CFD - software Re: CFD - software Re: CFD - software% Re: Clients using a GUI to access FTP % Re: Clients using a GUI to access FTP % Re: Clients using a GUI to access FTP % Re: Clients using a GUI to access FTP   Re: DECnet-IV strangeness in NCP  RE: DECnet-IV strangeness in NCP I should'a known better! Re: I should'a known better! Re: I should'a known better! Re: I should'a known better! Re: I should'a known better! Re: I should'a known better! Re: I should'a known better! Re: I should'a known better! Re: I should'a known better! Re: I should'a known better! Re: I should'a known better! Re: I should'a known better! Re: I should'a known better! Re: I should'a known better!" jEdit Modes file for DEC Document?P SWS-2.1 file formats. Was:Re: VMS 7.3 vs 8.x - java in HTML files,  Hmm.  Hmm.Hm  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 13:41:08 -0500 + From: brandon@dalsemi.com (BRANDON, JOHN M)  Subject: Re: CFD - software 1 Message-ID: <06081113410867@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>   * Tom Linden [tom@kednos-remove.com] Writes:F > John,  why do you need CFD to analyze the computer center,  if it isK > airflow, temp and humidity  there are plenty of programs out there I am    > sure.   - We are interested in airflow and temperature.   J We have facilities stating we have plenty of A/C capacity - which they areL starting to back off on - we have my long-haired ideas of putting fans underL the floor to supplement a downed A/C unit.  We actually stuck a high-poweredN fan under the floor - well 1/2 under 1/2 above - and covered it with cardboardO and duct tape - called it the turtle.  Yeah, crazy, and I have damning evidence N to prove it (pictures that is).  The fan was not powerful enough to create theM airflow required and testing in a production environment put us on edge... so ; we canceled any further investigation.  Hence the CFD path.   H Introduction of high-density servers is the problem.  Today's equipment,K smaller, faster, produces the same if not more heat than that of 5-10 years G ago.  Granted the dual-core processors reduce the heat generated by two K standalone processors, but they take up less space which translates to more F servers in that space - subsequently more heat.  Kind of like when theO politicians tell you that they are reducing spending - the reduce the amount of # spending they plan on increasing...   K We had a vendor come out to bid on the analysis - and we thought it way too K much.  We have the internal capability (man-power) and resources (measuring N devices) that we can collect our own data.  We just need some software that we can plug that data into.  A The commercial market is out there - we have met them and we ran.   - Now we are looking for the cheap alternative.   ( Hmmm, I wonder if Excel... just kidding!     John "REBOOT" Brandon  VMS Systems Administrator * firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 11:52:31 -0700 * From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos-remove.com> Subject: Re: CFD - software ) Message-ID: <op.td4upttdtte90l@hyrrokkin>   K On Fri, 11 Aug 2006 11:41:08 -0700, BRANDON, JOHN M <brandon@dalsemi.com>    wrote:  , > Tom Linden [tom@kednos-remove.com] Writes:G >> John,  why do you need CFD to analyze the computer center,  if it is J >> airflow, temp and humidity  there are plenty of programs out there I am >> sure. > / > We are interested in airflow and temperature.  > J > We have facilities stating we have plenty of A/C capacity - which they   > are J > starting to back off on - we have my long-haired ideas of putting fans   > under C > the floor to supplement a downed A/C unit.  We actually stuck a    > high-poweredH > fan under the floor - well 1/2 under 1/2 above - and covered it with   > cardboard J > and duct tape - called it the turtle.  Yeah, crazy, and I have damning  
 > evidenceG > to prove it (pictures that is).  The fan was not powerful enough to    > create theF > airflow required and testing in a production environment put us on   > edge... so= > we canceled any further investigation.  Hence the CFD path.  > J > Introduction of high-density servers is the problem.  Today's equipment,I > smaller, faster, produces the same if not more heat than that of 5-10    > years I > ago.  Granted the dual-core processors reduce the heat generated by two J > standalone processors, but they take up less space which translates to   > moreH > servers in that space - subsequently more heat.  Kind of like when theI > politicians tell you that they are reducing spending - the reduce the    > amount of % > spending they plan on increasing...  > K > We had a vendor come out to bid on the analysis - and we thought it way    > too D > much.  We have the internal capability (man-power) and resources   > (measuringJ > devices) that we can collect our own data.  We just need some software  	 > that we  > can plug that data into. > C > The commercial market is out there - we have met them and we ran.  > / > Now we are looking for the cheap alternative.  > * > Hmmm, I wonder if Excel... just kidding!  D As I thought, you don't wand CFD, that would be like using General  
 RelativityK to solve the trajectory of a falling rock.  There are plugins for Autocad    thatJ can do this and I'll bet you can find an Autocad expert in your area who   would F do it quite reasonably.  Licensed professional engineers necessarily   charge aI lot more, because they can be sued:-)  Look for one with HVAC experience.  >  >  > John "REBOOT" Brandon  > VMS Systems Administrator , > firstname.lastname.spam.me.not@dalsemi.com       --  E Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/    ------------------------------   Date: 11 Aug 2006 22:01:56 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: CFD - software + Message-ID: <4k4d2kFaiptsU2@individual.net>   1 In article <06081113410867@dscis6-0.dalsemi.com>, . 	brandon@dalsemi.com (BRANDON, JOHN M) writes:, > Tom Linden [tom@kednos-remove.com] Writes:G >> John,  why do you need CFD to analyze the computer center,  if it is L >> airflow, temp and humidity  there are plenty of programs out there I am   >> sure. > / > We are interested in airflow and temperature.  > L > We have facilities stating we have plenty of A/C capacity - which they are > starting to back off on -   H Don't you love when these engineer types start telling you what you need in your computer room?  I We had a problem with humidity. High humidity was causing excessive paper F jams in the printers.  At first they told us that we were wrong and itK wasn't humidity at all.  Finally we got them to put in a monitor to measure G the humidity over time on one of those little circular chart recorders. G Turned out the humidity was high.  Want to hear their suggestion to fix J the problemn?  Turn the air conditioning temperaturei in the computer roomK up.  They figured that around 80 the humidity would no longer be a problem.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 15:29:45 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> . Subject: Re: Clients using a GUI to access FTP, Message-ID: <44DCDAA5.EBD71B02@teksavvy.com>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:E > > Microsoft still chose to use LIST  *and* try to parse the output.  > * > Nothing in the RFC that says they can't.    ; From STD009: ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/std/std9.txt     LIST (LIST)  H             This command causes a list to be sent from the server to theH             passive DTP.  If the pathname specifies a directory or otherF             group of files, the server should transfer a list of filesD             in the specified directory.  If the pathname specifies aG             file then the server should send current information on the H             file.  A null argument implies the user's current working orB             default directory.  The data transfer is over the dataD             connection in type ASCII or type EBCDIC.  (The user mustC             ensure that the TYPE is appropriately ASCII or EBCDIC). G             Since the information on a file may vary widely from system H             to system, this information may be hard to use automaticallyB             in a program, but may be quite useful to a human user.            NAME LIST (NLST)   C             This command causes a directory listing to be sent from ?             server to user site.  The pathname should specify a G             directory or other system-specific file group descriptor; a D             null argument implies the current directory.  The server?             will return a stream of names of files and no other B             information.  The data will be transferred in ASCII orB             EBCDIC type over the data connection as valid pathnameF             strings separated by <CRLF> or <NL>.  (Again the user mustG             ensure that the TYPE is correct.)  This command is intended B             to return information that can be used by a program toE             further process the files automatically.  For example, in <             the implementation of a "multiple get" function.     ----------------    G In a GUI client, getting a "human readable" list  means that you do not E have a list of filenames that you can use to issue GET/PUT/DELETE etc A commands. It requires that you parse the human readable output to 7 extract the path and/or filename portion of each line.    2 NLIST gives you a computer readable list of files.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Aug 2006 15:18:45 -0500 From: briggs@encompasserve.org. Subject: Re: Clients using a GUI to access FTP3 Message-ID: <MykXXj12UZY6@eisner.encompasserve.org>   M In article <ebi1o5$gta$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes: V > In article <wO2rM6Qbvolh@eisner.encompasserve.org>, briggs@encompasserve.org writes:X >>In article <4k3764Fab6avU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:7 >>> In article <2z3xASIqK9Kt@eisner.encompasserve.org>, % >>> 	briggs@encompasserve.org writes: [ >>>> In article <4k0vudF9v06bU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: 7 >>>>> In article <1QGCg.1833$lL6.724@news.cpqcorp.net>, 5 >>>>> 	Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com> writes: M >>>>>>    And as for mapping OpenVMS names into Unix names (or the other way  N >>>>>> 'round), there are a gazillion obvious filename translations, and some O >>>>>> really ugly ones.  What's ., after all?  The corner cases are enough to  + >>>>>> drive any sane engineer up the wall.  >>>>> N >>>>> I wouldn't suggest mapping VMS names to Unix names.  Why would you?  AllM >>>>> your VMS names are legitimate Unix names any way (even with the ";13"). L >>>>> If the VMS directory doesn't contain a entry called "." you just don't: >>>>> include one.  "ls" doesn't even though there is one. >>>>  ? >>>> Because if you're copying a directory full of default-case > >>>> VMS filenames (uppercase) onto a Unix directory, a useful> >>>> expectation is that you will end up with a Unix directory5 >>>> full of default-case Unix filenames (lowercase).  >>> F >>> Only if you assume that there is a "default case" for filenames.  I >>> I have lot's of files on my Unix systems that are in capital letters. H >>> Uppercase isn't necessarily the default case on VMS, it just happensK >>> to be the only one they choose to use.  And Unix doesn't have a default L >>> case.  Most files are created as lowercase because that is they way they >>> were typed.  >>I >>Don't be stupid.  Essentially all [ODS2] VMS file names are upper case. B >>A significant majority (95+%) of Unix file names are lower case. >>M > VMS filenames under ODS-2 are case insensitive. The fact that the usual VMS P > tools display them in uppercase is not really significant since you can accessP > them from DCL, Programs etc just as easily by specifying the name in lowercaseO > or mixed case. Hence it doesn't really matter whether they are transferred as M > upper or lowercase filenames to other systems since if they are transferred Q > back they will again be stored in a case insensitive manner and will appear to  - > the usual VMS tools as uppercase filenames.   D I think it would be more correct to say that VMS filenames presentedB to ODS-2 are interpreted in a case-insensitive manner but that VMS8 file names returned by ODS-2 are presented in uppercase.  D The choice of how to present those file names to other systems isn'tF a function of ODS-2.  It's a function of the file transfer techniques.  ? In particular, it is a function of the VMS FTP server software.   B The FTP server can choose to take the uppercase file name returned= by the file system and present it to the client as uppercase.   B The FTP server can choose to take the uppercase file name returned= by the file system and present it to the client as lowercase.   C The FTP server can choose to employ some mapping technique in which > case changes are folded into a mono-case name space and it can? choose to present the result of unfolding the native file name.   D If you are a VMS client using a Unix server as a file store, puttingE the files there and then retrieving them back, then you are perfectly E correct.  It doesn't matter what case the VMS file name is.  The name A of the file as seen on the Unix FTP server will match the name of 5 the file as seen sent there by by the VMS FTP client.   E It is the opposite direction that poses problems.  How do you support B a Unix client storing (potentially) mixed case files on a VMS file server?   K You can choose to present upper case file names on output to the client and F pass on the client's filenames verbatim to RMS/ODS-2.  RMS/ODS-2 will,+ of course, uppercase the filenames for you.   G You can choose to present lower case file names on output to the client G pass on the client's file names verbatim to RMS/ODS-2.  RMS/ODS-2 will, + of course, uppercase the filenames for you.   E You can choose to present unfolded file names on output to the client G and to fold the client's filenames before presenting them to RMS/ODS-2. 9 RMS/ODS-2 will uppercase the filenames, but you care not.   9 None of those approaches is perfect.  All have drawbacks.    ------------------------------   Date: 11 Aug 2006 21:56:39 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon). Subject: Re: Clients using a GUI to access FTP+ Message-ID: <4k4comFaiptsU1@individual.net>   , In article <44DCDAA5.EBD71B02@teksavvy.com>,0 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote:F >> > Microsoft still chose to use LIST  *and* try to parse the output. >>  + >> Nothing in the RFC that says they can't.  >  > = > From STD009: ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/std/std9.txt  >  >  LIST (LIST) > J >             This command causes a list to be sent from the server to theJ >             passive DTP.  If the pathname specifies a directory or otherH >             group of files, the server should transfer a list of filesF >             in the specified directory.  If the pathname specifies aI >             file then the server should send current information on the J >             file.  A null argument implies the user's current working orD >             default directory.  The data transfer is over the dataF >             connection in type ASCII or type EBCDIC.  (The user mustE >             ensure that the TYPE is appropriately ASCII or EBCDIC). I >             Since the information on a file may vary widely from system J >             to system, this information may be hard to use automaticallyD >             in a program, but may be quite useful to a human user. >  >          NAME LIST (NLST)  > E >             This command causes a directory listing to be sent from A >             server to user site.  The pathname should specify a I >             directory or other system-specific file group descriptor; a F >             null argument implies the current directory.  The serverA >             will return a stream of names of files and no other D >             information.  The data will be transferred in ASCII orD >             EBCDIC type over the data connection as valid pathnameH >             strings separated by <CRLF> or <NL>.  (Again the user mustI >             ensure that the TYPE is correct.)  This command is intended D >             to return information that can be used by a program toG >             further process the files automatically.  For example, in > >             the implementation of a "multiple get" function. >  >  > ---------------- >  > I > In a GUI client, getting a "human readable" list  means that you do not G > have a list of filenames that you can use to issue GET/PUT/DELETE etc C > commands. It requires that you parse the human readable output to 9 > extract the path and/or filename portion of each line.   > 4 > NLIST gives you a computer readable list of files.   What's your point?   The part you quoted was:F >> > Microsoft still chose to use LIST  *and* try to parse the output. >>+ >> Nothing in the RFC that says they can't.    The RFC say under LIST:   A      "Since the information on a file may vary widely from system B       to system, this information may be hard to use automatically=       in a program, but may be quite useful to a human user."   7 Nothing there says you can't, only that it may be hard.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 23:01:51 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> . Subject: Re: Clients using a GUI to access FTP9 Message-ID: <5sednR__1p-W3kDZnZ2dnUVZ_oGdnZ2d@libcom.com>    briggs@encompasserve.org wrote:   F > The choice of how to present those file names to other systems isn'tH > a function of ODS-2.  It's a function of the file transfer techniques. > A > In particular, it is a function of the VMS FTP server software.   @ I'm thinking that I'll disagree with this idea.  Ok, to be more H specific, when it's a file being moved from a VMS server to some client.  6 The file name is just fine as far as VMS is concerned.  I Each client may have it's own issues.  I'd think that each client should  G determine how to resolve such issues.  I cannot see any reason for VMS    to worry about a client problem.  I Now, when a file is being moved to VMS, then it's VMS which must resolve   any issues with the filename.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Aug 2006 12:12:13 -0700% From: "VAXelate" <moore.mc@gmail.com> ) Subject: Re: DECnet-IV strangeness in NCP C Message-ID: <1155323533.849477.288890@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Bob Koehler wrote:x > In article <1155191085.033746.298920@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, "Bart.Zorn@gmail.com" <Bart.Zorn@gmail.com> writes: > > Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > > , > > DECdns with DECnet Phase IV? Not likely! > >  > F >    Used DECdns on a Phase IV network myself.  DECdns was required toG >    set up a network monitoring product DEC sold us.  Phase V was not.   A Unfortunately, interesting as this is, my original query remains:   B What the hell happened to my "NCP SHOW NODE 2.*" output?   --and-- What actually fixed it?    Chris    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 16:15:41 -0400 , From: <Barry.Treahy@EmersonNetworkPower.com>) Subject: RE: DECnet-IV strangeness in NCP M Message-ID: <63A4454BFCE1C048B2683DBB63A3633363C518@ETP-CIN-US-EX01.etp1.com>   C Note sure what has changed, or which architecture or version of VMS / you're running on but for VAX at 7.2, it works:    V4100$ ncp show node 1.* =20  =20 0 Node Volatile Summary as of 11-AUG-2006 16:13:42 =20  Executor node =3D 1.100 (V4100)  =20  State                    =3D on 8 Identification           =3D DECnet for OpenVMS VAX V7.2 =20  =20 C     Node           State      Active  Delay   Circuit     Next node #                               Links  =20 @  1.11 (CHARON)   reachable       2       3    DNIP-0-0      1.11 (CHARON)  1.12 (V6000)    unreachable  1.31 (V3100)    unreachable  1.45 (V4500)    unreachable  1.99 (X4100)    unreachable  1.101 (DSV101)  unreachable  1.102 (DSV102)  unreachable  1.103 (DSV103)  unreachable  1.104 (DSV104)  unreachable  1.105 (DSV105)  unreachable  1.106 (DSV106)  unreachable  1.107 (DSV107)  unreachable  1.108 (DSV108)  unreachable  1.109 (DSV109)  unreachable  1.110 (DS7000)  unreachable  1.111 (DS7001)  unreachable  ' Barry Treahy, Jr                    =20  Vice President/CIO Midwest Microwave, Inc. , Emerson Network Power Connectivity Solutions, E-mail: Barry.Treahy@EmersonNetworkPower.com Phone: 480/314-1320  Cell:     480/216-9568 Fax:     480/661-7028  =20 2                        ... but it's a DRY HEAT!=20   -----Original Message------ From: VAXelate [mailto:moore.mc@gmail.com]=20 & Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 12:12 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ) Subject: Re: DECnet-IV strangeness in NCP      Bob Koehler wrote:D > In article <1155191085.033746.298920@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,3 "Bart.Zorn@gmail.com" <Bart.Zorn@gmail.com> writes:  > > Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > > , > > DECdns with DECnet Phase IV? Not likely! > >  > F >    Used DECdns on a Phase IV network myself.  DECdns was required toG >    set up a network monitoring product DEC sold us.  Phase V was not.   A Unfortunately, interesting as this is, my original query remains:   B What the hell happened to my "NCP SHOW NODE 2.*" output?   --and-- What actually fixed it?    Chris    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Aug 2006 10:58:40 -0700- From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> ! Subject: I should'a known better! C Message-ID: <1155319120.192982.155550@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   D Warning: A lengthy and what some might consider off topic narrative.G -----------------------------------------------------------------------   E How much time should one waste trying to buy a $298 piece of paper? A A two-user license for something that is no longer being developed: " Advanced Server for OpenVMS Alpha.  F Stupidly, I called HP and wasted at least one hour. Having experiencedG a couple of decades fighting (DEC) licensing issues I should have known ! better, but hope springs eternal.   A After searching for a way to order on line, I called HP, with the E product list and SPC web pages before me showing the part numbers and A price, and navigated through the menu... (here's an abbreviated & ( paraphrased version of the "experience")   --D Machine: please hold for the next available representative --- (line6 opens,  people talking in the background, time passes)   Person1: Can I help you?  D Me: I'd like to buy a 2 user licence for Advanced Server for OpenVMS Alpha, part number QM-5SUAA.  ? Person1:(keys clicking) Sorry it's taking so long, everything's  running real slow today.  7 Me thinking: (???? And you're telling me this why ????)   ' Person1: I can't find that part number.   C Me: (repeated part number) There's a dash suffix; try either -AK or   -AB after the number I gave you.  E Person1; Oh, did you say QM? I thought you said 3M, just a minute.... E no, I don't see that, what was it again? Sorry, I'm not having a very  good day....  % Me thinking: (Hmm, Eeyore or Marvin?)   0 Me: (repeated part number spelling phonetically:F Quebec-Mike-Hyphen-Fife-Sierra-Uniform-Alfa-Alfa, and repeated product name using best radio voice)  ? Person1: Oh, I'll transfer you to someone who can help you with  OpenView   Me: No, not OpenView, OpenVMS.  > Person1: You'll need to talk to Enterprise; I'll transfer you.  5 Me thinking: (hmmm, I thought I pressed that button.)    (music plays, time passes)   Person2: How may I help you?  G Me: I need to buy a 2 user license for Advanced Server for OpenVMS part  number QM-5SUAA-AK or -AB.   Person2: Who is your rep?    Me: I don't have one  ' Person2: What is your zip code, please.    Me: (gave zip code)   A Person2: Thank you. Your rep is Mr.(gave name) I'll transfer you.    (music plays, time passes)  A Person2 again: I'm sorry, Mr. (rep) is on vacation. I'll transfer G you to that department and you can press 2 for the first available rep.    Me: Thank you.  G (music plays, time passes --- I liked the open line with people talking  better.)  # Person3: Hello, how may I help you.    Me: (repeated request)  % Person3: Name and address of company?    Me: (gave name and address)   / Person3:  Your zip-code is (repeated zip-code)?    Me: Yes.  , Person3: I'm sorry, your rep is on vacation.  F Me: I know. I was told that by the last person I talked to and now youD are the third person I've talked to. I was instructed to press 2 for? the next available rep and I guess that's you. Can you help me?   A Person3: We're assigned to territories and you'll need to talk to  him about your OpenView order.  B Me: What OpenView order???? I need a two user license for Advanced Server for OPENVMS!   - Person3: You could try your Microsoft dealer.   D Me: (becoming slightly annoyed) It's an HP product. Why would I talk to Microsoft???   0 Person3: You'll need to talk to your rep, sorry.  * Me: Is there no one there who can help me?  D Person3: Sorry, I can give you Mr. (rep)'s voice mail, or I can give7 you another number to call and maybe they can help you.    Me: Give me the number.    Person3: (gave me a number).   Me: Who's at that number?   3 Person3: The people who can help you when we can't.   B Me: Okay, thank you. (click.) (congratulating self for maintaining> control, dialed number, wishing I hadn't drank that 6th cup of coffee.)  1 Person4: Hello this is (name) how may I help you?   B Me: I'm trying, so far unsuccessfully, to buy a 2 user license forF Advanced Server for OpenVMS Alpha, part number (gave part number, then spelled it phonetically)  E Person4: Hmm, that looks like a Microsoft product. I don't believe we  can sell that.   Me: No, it's an HP product.   = Person4: Oh. Hold one moment please. I'll check with someone.   
 (time passes)   ? Person4: It looks like we can't sell that product. I think it's 
 discontinued.    Me: It's a piece of paper.  B Person4: Yes, I see. It's a license. You should talk to one of our
 resellers.  ( Me: Could you give me a reseller's name?   Person4: Try CDW.   - Me: CDW??? Do they sell Enterprise stuff now?   C Person4: Uh, no. I'll give you the number for the Enterprise group.   B Me: They sent me to you. Apparently there's only one person in theC enterprise world who is allowed to talk to me and he's on vacation.   D Person4: I don't know much about VM-ware, but I'll give you a numberE for someone who might be able to help you, it's (gave me a (925) area  code number)  $ Me: (defeated) Who's at that number?  / Person4: It's a lady who can probably help you.   @ Me: (thinking: Psychic hot-line maybe?) Thank you for your time.3 (click.) (Oh well, at least I tried. On to plan C.)   B Conclusion: The more things change, the more they remain the same.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 14:17:39 -0400  From: norm.raphael@metso.com% Subject: Re: I should'a known better! Q Message-ID: <OF8764356E.1D3939A7-ON852571C7.00644712-852571C7.00647E31@metso.com>    1)  Did you try bothering Sue?  J 2)  I can give you the number of my rep or you can give me your number and I can try to have the 
 rep call you.   I 3)  Mark Hurd has an email address and someone from "mission control" (no  joke) will get back . to you within 24 hours and then drop the ball.    H "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> wrote on 08/11/2006 01:58:40 PM:  F > Warning: A lengthy and what some might consider off topic narrative.I > -----------------------------------------------------------------------  > G > How much time should one waste trying to buy a $298 piece of paper? A C > two-user license for something that is no longer being developed: $ > Advanced Server for OpenVMS Alpha. > H > Stupidly, I called HP and wasted at least one hour. Having experiencedI > a couple of decades fighting (DEC) licensing issues I should have known # > better, but hope springs eternal.  > C > After searching for a way to order on line, I called HP, with the G > product list and SPC web pages before me showing the part numbers and C > price, and navigated through the menu... (here's an abbreviated & * > paraphrased version of the "experience") >  > --F > Machine: please hold for the next available representative --- (line8 > opens,  people talking in the background, time passes) >  > Person1: Can I help you? > F > Me: I'd like to buy a 2 user licence for Advanced Server for OpenVMS > Alpha, part number QM-5SUAA. > A > Person1:(keys clicking) Sorry it's taking so long, everything's  > running real slow today. > 9 > Me thinking: (???? And you're telling me this why ????)  > ) > Person1: I can't find that part number.  > E > Me: (repeated part number) There's a dash suffix; try either -AK or " > -AB after the number I gave you. > G > Person1; Oh, did you say QM? I thought you said 3M, just a minute.... G > no, I don't see that, what was it again? Sorry, I'm not having a very  > good day.... > ' > Me thinking: (Hmm, Eeyore or Marvin?)  > 2 > Me: (repeated part number spelling phonetically:H > Quebec-Mike-Hyphen-Fife-Sierra-Uniform-Alfa-Alfa, and repeated product > name using best radio voice) > A > Person1: Oh, I'll transfer you to someone who can help you with 
 > OpenView >   > Me: No, not OpenView, OpenVMS. > @ > Person1: You'll need to talk to Enterprise; I'll transfer you. > 7 > Me thinking: (hmmm, I thought I pressed that button.)  >  > (music plays, time passes) >  > Person2: How may I help you? > I > Me: I need to buy a 2 user license for Advanced Server for OpenVMS part  > number QM-5SUAA-AK or -AB. >  > Person2: Who is your rep?  >  > Me: I don't have one > ) > Person2: What is your zip code, please.  >  > Me: (gave zip code)  > C > Person2: Thank you. Your rep is Mr.(gave name) I'll transfer you.  >  > (music plays, time passes) > C > Person2 again: I'm sorry, Mr. (rep) is on vacation. I'll transfer I > you to that department and you can press 2 for the first available rep.  >  > Me: Thank you. > I > (music plays, time passes --- I liked the open line with people talking 
 > better.) > % > Person3: Hello, how may I help you.  >  > Me: (repeated request) > ' > Person3: Name and address of company?  >  > Me: (gave name and address)  > 1 > Person3:  Your zip-code is (repeated zip-code)?  > 
 > Me: Yes. > . > Person3: I'm sorry, your rep is on vacation. > H > Me: I know. I was told that by the last person I talked to and now youF > are the third person I've talked to. I was instructed to press 2 forA > the next available rep and I guess that's you. Can you help me?  > C > Person3: We're assigned to territories and you'll need to talk to   > him about your OpenView order. > D > Me: What OpenView order???? I need a two user license for Advanced > Server for OPENVMS!  > / > Person3: You could try your Microsoft dealer.  > F > Me: (becoming slightly annoyed) It's an HP product. Why would I talk > to Microsoft???  > 2 > Person3: You'll need to talk to your rep, sorry. > , > Me: Is there no one there who can help me? > F > Person3: Sorry, I can give you Mr. (rep)'s voice mail, or I can give9 > you another number to call and maybe they can help you.  >  > Me: Give me the number.  >  > Person3: (gave me a number). >  > Me: Who's at that number?  > 5 > Person3: The people who can help you when we can't.  > D > Me: Okay, thank you. (click.) (congratulating self for maintaining@ > control, dialed number, wishing I hadn't drank that 6th cup of
 > coffee.) > 3 > Person4: Hello this is (name) how may I help you?  > D > Me: I'm trying, so far unsuccessfully, to buy a 2 user license forH > Advanced Server for OpenVMS Alpha, part number (gave part number, then > spelled it phonetically) > G > Person4: Hmm, that looks like a Microsoft product. I don't believe we  > can sell that. >  > Me: No, it's an HP product.  > ? > Person4: Oh. Hold one moment please. I'll check with someone.  >  > (time passes)  > A > Person4: It looks like we can't sell that product. I think it's  > discontinued.  >  > Me: It's a piece of paper. > D > Person4: Yes, I see. It's a license. You should talk to one of our > resellers. > * > Me: Could you give me a reseller's name? >  > Person4: Try CDW.  > / > Me: CDW??? Do they sell Enterprise stuff now?  > E > Person4: Uh, no. I'll give you the number for the Enterprise group.  > D > Me: They sent me to you. Apparently there's only one person in theE > enterprise world who is allowed to talk to me and he's on vacation.  > F > Person4: I don't know much about VM-ware, but I'll give you a numberG > for someone who might be able to help you, it's (gave me a (925) area  > code number) > & > Me: (defeated) Who's at that number? > 1 > Person4: It's a lady who can probably help you.  > B > Me: (thinking: Psychic hot-line maybe?) Thank you for your time.5 > (click.) (Oh well, at least I tried. On to plan C.)  > D > Conclusion: The more things change, the more they remain the same. >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 15:03:20 -0400 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>% Subject: Re: I should'a known better! 9 Message-ID: <44DC9C38.2146.99F489@squayle.insight.rr.com>   - On 11 Aug 2006 at 10:58, Doug Phillips wrote: H > Having experienced a couple of decades fighting (DEC) licensing issues8 > I should have known better, but hope springs eternal.   F I gave up on that years ago.  I now buy all my licenses through MSA.  - They even give me a discount from list.   :-)   
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------8 Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  Toll free: 1-888-I-LUV-VAX3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA < stan-at-stanq-dot-com   http://www.stanq.com/charon-vax.html) "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option"    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 15:42:03 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> % Subject: Re: I should'a known better! , Message-ID: <44DCDD87.C3B49008@teksavvy.com>   Doug Phillips wrote:G > How much time should one waste trying to buy a $298 piece of paper? A C > two-user license for something that is no longer being developed: $ > Advanced Server for OpenVMS Alpha.  ) Great story. Sorry to hear it is true :-(   H I see 2 mistakes you made here: using "OpenVMS" instead of "VMS".  Leads
 to confusion.   @ Secondly, instead of saying it is an HP product, you should haveD explained it was a Digital product which HP inherited as part of its purchase of Compaq.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 15:45:43 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> % Subject: Re: I should'a known better! , Message-ID: <44DCDE62.6F6E25C5@teksavvy.com>   norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:  >   > 1)  Did you try bothering Sue?    E Yep. Back in the days of DECUS, I had had a similar problem trying to G get a potential customer to reach a Dic sales rep to provide quotes for E support services for corporate PC/server fleet. I got nowhere until I H called the DECrep for DECUS Canada who then not only gave me the name ofD the rep but also promised to get that rep to call the IT director of that enterprise.  F With DECUS gone, this isn't possible anymore. But Sue is the next bestG thing since sliced bread in that regards. Also, bothering Sue with such B an issue may have a greater chance of getting VMS management to doL something to make ordering of VMS spsecific parts much easier for customers.   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Aug 2006 13:00:35 -0700% From: "VAXelate" <moore.mc@gmail.com> % Subject: Re: I should'a known better! C Message-ID: <1155326435.813945.324740@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Doug Phillips wrote:I > > How much time should one waste trying to buy a $298 piece of paper? A E > > two-user license for something that is no longer being developed: & > > Advanced Server for OpenVMS Alpha. > + > Great story. Sorry to hear it is true :-(  > J > I see 2 mistakes you made here: using "OpenVMS" instead of "VMS".  Leads > to confusion.  > B > Secondly, instead of saying it is an HP product, you should haveF > explained it was a Digital product which HP inherited as part of its > purchase of Compaq  E The terminology absolutely shouldn't matter as he was able to quote a D part number; besides part of his recitation indicated that "VMS" wasE morphed into "VMware" anyway.  I've had HP (oops, the Caps Lock still F sticks on that one) reps claim that "VMX isn't an hp product" as well.  C Call DaimlerChrysler (comparable in timeframe and scope to the HPaq B buyout I think) about a Dodge, and THEY don't seem to have trouble( recognizing it as one of their products.  C Anything that upsets a committed customer will totally turn off one ; who's "on the fence" -- NO business will last through that.    Chris    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 16:13:15 -0400   From: "DBT" <dbturner@icusc.com>% Subject: Re: I should'a known better! 0 Message-ID: <12dpp6kf0s7ok49@news.supernews.com>   Who is MSA?      --     David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X251  Fax: 912 201 0402  Email: dbturner@islandco.com Web: http://www.islandco.com% ===================================== < All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions. of sale. These should be read before ordering.% http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html   = "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com> wrote in message 3 news:44DC9C38.2146.99F489@squayle.insight.rr.com... / > On 11 Aug 2006 at 10:58, Doug Phillips wrote: J > > Having experienced a couple of decades fighting (DEC) licensing issues9 > > I should have known better, but hope springs eternal.  > F > I gave up on that years ago.  I now buy all my licenses through MSA./ > They even give me a discount from list.   :-)  >  > --Stan Quayle  > Quayle Consulting Inc. >  > ----------: > Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  Toll free: 1-888-I-LUV-VAX5 > 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA > > stan-at-stanq-dot-com   http://www.stanq.com/charon-vax.html+ > "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option"  >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Aug 2006 13:21:16 -0700- From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> % Subject: Re: I should'a known better! B Message-ID: <1155327676.702781.22120@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Doug Phillips wrote:I > > How much time should one waste trying to buy a $298 piece of paper? A E > > two-user license for something that is no longer being developed: & > > Advanced Server for OpenVMS Alpha. > + > Great story. Sorry to hear it is true :-(  > J > I see 2 mistakes you made here: using "OpenVMS" instead of "VMS".  Leads > to confusion.  > B > Secondly, instead of saying it is an HP product, you should haveF > explained it was a Digital product which HP inherited as part of its > purchase of Compaq.   @ Maybe I'll grab a few beers, a couple of stogies, sit back in myB recliner and make a few test calls, using the words VMS, VAX, DEC,G Digital, Compaq and Pathworks to see what happens. I guess I'll have to E test various zip codes, too, until I find a rep that will talk to me. F (It's 60... oh, wait I meant 91... Oh wait, sorry, it's 10... No?, howC about 32...)  If I do this (don't hold your breath;-) I'll post the  results.  E I never did call CDW. I bet that would be fun! (in a masochistic sort 	 of way;-)    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Aug 2006 13:09:08 -0700- From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> % Subject: Re: I should'a known better! B Message-ID: <1155326948.307437.39930@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>   norm.raphael@metso.com wrote:   > 1)  Did you try bothering Sue? > L > 2)  I can give you the number of my rep or you can give me your number and% > I can try to have the rep call you.  >   D Thanks, but I could leave "my rep" a voice mail, too, but this isn'tF worth any more of my time except what time I'm spending bitching about6 HP --- which is my personal time (read: non-billable).  K > 3)  Mark Hurd has an email address and someone from "mission control" (no  > joke) will get back 0 > to you within 24 hours and then drop the ball.  C I'm sure he'd have someone get right on that 2 user Advanced Server - license, stat, before he dropped the ball ;-)    >  >  Stanley F. Quayle wrote: > F > I gave up on that years ago.  I now buy all my licenses through MSA./ > They even give me a discount from list.   :-)  >   E Thanks guys, but I've located a license elsewhere. My post was just a F rant, meant for my sanity's benefit more than anything else, but maybeE it'll save someone else from the HP frustration. Sorry to burden you.   F For years I had various contacts for these small needs, but one-by-one- they've dried up; (Digital Basics, Avnet,...)   D I thought about calling back and asking for information on a 20 nodeC sx2000 OpenVMS cluster, then, "oh, while I have you on the phone, I  need a 2 user ..."  F If someone wants to post a *current* list of suppliers who won't stickG their noses up at small needs, I'm sure it would be most appreciated by 
 many COV'ers.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 15:06:29 -0600  From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net> % Subject: Re: I should'a known better! 2 Message-ID: <1155328808_4629@sp6iad.superfeed.net>   Doug Phillips wrote:F > Warning: A lengthy and what some might consider off topic narrative.I > -----------------------------------------------------------------------  ...[snip]...  : Had a similiar experience trying to purchase a UCX license> for a uVax3100 several years back, when it was Compaq. Started5 with the Compaq phone number from their VMS web site.   < Eventually ended up with someone, after several unsuccessful9 tries and multiple "we'll call you back on that". Several < days later he left a message on my answering machine quoting $5000 per user.   5 Called back the next day in an attempt to verify that : information ($5000 per user for a 3100, and no explination: as to how many users I'd need to buy???), only to find out4 he had just left the company, and they no longer had# anyone who knew anything about VMS.   8 Many further attempts over several days (trying a lot of? different Compaq phone numbers) always ended up stuck somewhere 5 with a "what version of Windows is that for?" type of 8 question, with a return to the start of the ordeal after8 the "no, it's VMS, not Windows, no VMS doesn't run under? Windows..." followed by the inevitable "let me transfer you..." " back to the start of the sequence.  : After trying daily for about a month, I started to get the8 idea that VMS was not a well supported operating system.= I *really*, *really* didn't want to have to deal with all the / serial hardware between the VAX and these PC's.   ; Eventually gave up and used a kermit-terminal server-serial 5 port-multiplexor-200' cabling around the outside of a < building-kermit- and lots of custom coding, just to transfer: inventory data from some bar-code readers.  FTP sure would7 have been simplier, faster, and much more reliable. The 9 network cables were already in place for the PC's which I : needed to interface with. TELNET would also have been very nice.   1 Glad to see that they have kept up their quality.   Q ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- S http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups K ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 16:58:38 -0400 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com>% Subject: Re: I should'a known better! ; Message-ID: <44DCB73E.32652.1038503@squayle.insight.rr.com>   # On 11 Aug 2006 at 16:13, DBT wrote: 
 > Who is MSA?   # Management Science Associates, Inc.  724-265-6500  1 I work with Eileen Gallant.  Tell her I sent you.   
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------8 Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  Toll free: 1-888-I-LUV-VAX3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA < stan-at-stanq-dot-com   http://www.stanq.com/charon-vax.html) "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option"    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 18:30:03 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> % Subject: Re: I should'a known better! < Message-ID: <44dd03be$0$24192$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>  9 "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> wrote in message  < news:1155327676.702781.22120@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > JF Mezei wrote:  [...snip...] > B > Maybe I'll grab a few beers, a couple of stogies, sit back in myD > recliner and make a few test calls, using the words VMS, VAX, DEC,I > Digital, Compaq and Pathworks to see what happens. I guess I'll have to G > test various zip codes, too, until I find a rep that will talk to me. H > (It's 60... oh, wait I meant 91... Oh wait, sorry, it's 10... No?, howE > about 32...)  If I do this (don't hold your breath;-) I'll post the 
 > results. > M Sounds like the story of Ali-baba and the forty thieves. What was that magic  # phrase again? Oh yeh, "Open Sesame"   
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada." http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 18:26:06 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> % Subject: Re: I should'a known better! < Message-ID: <44dd02db$0$24177$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>  ; "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message  & news:44DCDD87.C3B49008@teksavvy.com... > Doug Phillips wrote:H >> How much time should one waste trying to buy a $298 piece of paper? AD >> two-user license for something that is no longer being developed:% >> Advanced Server for OpenVMS Alpha.  > + > Great story. Sorry to hear it is true :-(  > J > I see 2 mistakes you made here: using "OpenVMS" instead of "VMS".  Leads > to confusion.  > B > Secondly, instead of saying it is an HP product, you should haveF > explained it was a Digital product which HP inherited as part of its > purchase of Compaq.  > K The dweebs answering the phone wouldn't know what you are talking about if  L you mentioned Digital or DEC. When I order licenses I have found that it is J always good to tell the first person you talk to that it is a Compaq part  number.    (it was a merger? right? :-)  
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada." http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 23:23:15 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> % Subject: Re: I should'a known better! 9 Message-ID: <LN2dnR4w4ZqV1UDZnZ2dnUVZ_v2dnZ2d@libcom.com>    Doug Phillips wrote:F > Warning: A lengthy and what some might consider off topic narrative.I > -----------------------------------------------------------------------  > G > How much time should one waste trying to buy a $298 piece of paper? A C > two-user license for something that is no longer being developed: $ > Advanced Server for OpenVMS Alpha. > H > Stupidly, I called HP and wasted at least one hour. Having experiencedI > a couple of decades fighting (DEC) licensing issues I should have known # > better, but hope springs eternal.  > C > After searching for a way to order on line, I called HP, with the G > product list and SPC web pages before me showing the part numbers and C > price, and navigated through the menu... (here's an abbreviated & * > paraphrased version of the "experience") >  > --F > Machine: please hold for the next available representative --- (line8 > opens,  people talking in the background, time passes) >  > Person1: Can I help you? > F > Me: I'd like to buy a 2 user licence for Advanced Server for OpenVMS > Alpha, part number QM-5SUAA. > A > Person1:(keys clicking) Sorry it's taking so long, everything's  > running real slow today. > 9 > Me thinking: (???? And you're telling me this why ????)  > ) > Person1: I can't find that part number.  > E > Me: (repeated part number) There's a dash suffix; try either -AK or " > -AB after the number I gave you. > G > Person1; Oh, did you say QM? I thought you said 3M, just a minute.... G > no, I don't see that, what was it again? Sorry, I'm not having a very  > good day.... > ' > Me thinking: (Hmm, Eeyore or Marvin?)  > 2 > Me: (repeated part number spelling phonetically:H > Quebec-Mike-Hyphen-Fife-Sierra-Uniform-Alfa-Alfa, and repeated product > name using best radio voice) > A > Person1: Oh, I'll transfer you to someone who can help you with 
 > OpenView >   > Me: No, not OpenView, OpenVMS. > @ > Person1: You'll need to talk to Enterprise; I'll transfer you. > 7 > Me thinking: (hmmm, I thought I pressed that button.)  >  > (music plays, time passes) >  > Person2: How may I help you? > I > Me: I need to buy a 2 user license for Advanced Server for OpenVMS part  > number QM-5SUAA-AK or -AB. >  > Person2: Who is your rep?  >  > Me: I don't have one > ) > Person2: What is your zip code, please.  >  > Me: (gave zip code)  > C > Person2: Thank you. Your rep is Mr.(gave name) I'll transfer you.  >  > (music plays, time passes) > C > Person2 again: I'm sorry, Mr. (rep) is on vacation. I'll transfer I > you to that department and you can press 2 for the first available rep.  >  > Me: Thank you. > I > (music plays, time passes --- I liked the open line with people talking 
 > better.) > % > Person3: Hello, how may I help you.  >  > Me: (repeated request) > ' > Person3: Name and address of company?  >  > Me: (gave name and address)  > 1 > Person3:  Your zip-code is (repeated zip-code)?  > 
 > Me: Yes. > . > Person3: I'm sorry, your rep is on vacation. > H > Me: I know. I was told that by the last person I talked to and now youF > are the third person I've talked to. I was instructed to press 2 forA > the next available rep and I guess that's you. Can you help me?  > C > Person3: We're assigned to territories and you'll need to talk to   > him about your OpenView order. > D > Me: What OpenView order???? I need a two user license for Advanced > Server for OPENVMS!  > / > Person3: You could try your Microsoft dealer.  > F > Me: (becoming slightly annoyed) It's an HP product. Why would I talk > to Microsoft???  > 2 > Person3: You'll need to talk to your rep, sorry. > , > Me: Is there no one there who can help me? > F > Person3: Sorry, I can give you Mr. (rep)'s voice mail, or I can give9 > you another number to call and maybe they can help you.  >  > Me: Give me the number.  >  > Person3: (gave me a number). >  > Me: Who's at that number?  > 5 > Person3: The people who can help you when we can't.  > D > Me: Okay, thank you. (click.) (congratulating self for maintaining@ > control, dialed number, wishing I hadn't drank that 6th cup of
 > coffee.) > 3 > Person4: Hello this is (name) how may I help you?  > D > Me: I'm trying, so far unsuccessfully, to buy a 2 user license forH > Advanced Server for OpenVMS Alpha, part number (gave part number, then > spelled it phonetically) > G > Person4: Hmm, that looks like a Microsoft product. I don't believe we  > can sell that. >  > Me: No, it's an HP product.  > ? > Person4: Oh. Hold one moment please. I'll check with someone.  >  > (time passes)  > A > Person4: It looks like we can't sell that product. I think it's  > discontinued.  >  > Me: It's a piece of paper. > D > Person4: Yes, I see. It's a license. You should talk to one of our > resellers. > * > Me: Could you give me a reseller's name? >  > Person4: Try CDW.  > / > Me: CDW??? Do they sell Enterprise stuff now?  > E > Person4: Uh, no. I'll give you the number for the Enterprise group.  > D > Me: They sent me to you. Apparently there's only one person in theE > enterprise world who is allowed to talk to me and he's on vacation.  > F > Person4: I don't know much about VM-ware, but I'll give you a numberG > for someone who might be able to help you, it's (gave me a (925) area  > code number) > & > Me: (defeated) Who's at that number? > 1 > Person4: It's a lady who can probably help you.  > B > Me: (thinking: Psychic hot-line maybe?) Thank you for your time.5 > (click.) (Oh well, at least I tried. On to plan C.)  > D > Conclusion: The more things change, the more they remain the same. >    Totally jaded reply.  :-)   E Just find someone who already has a license and get them to share it  E with you.  HP's lawyers will never find you, and if they do, they'll  F never be able to prove it's an HP product.  If they do, then have the F judge make the same call.  In less than the wasted hour, you'll get a  "case dismissed".   D I haven't yet figured out why the enterprise group, or just the VMS G people, cannot run their own national sales line.  They could feed the  A order into whatever HP has in place currently if necessary.  VMS  ; customers should not have to put up with this kind of shit!    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   Date: 11 Aug 2006 17:43:52 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com + Subject: jEdit Modes file for DEC Document? , Message-ID: <ebifko11jua@enews4.newsguy.com>  K I'm wondering if anyone has done up a jEdit modes file for DEC Document for 9 Syntax highlighting?  Or does someone have one for nedit?   K Are there any options besides jEdit and nedit for syntax highlighting under G VMS?  How about ones that would work with a VT, rather than DECwindows?    Zane   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 06:29:47 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> Y Subject: SWS-2.1 file formats. Was:Re: VMS 7.3 vs 8.x - java in HTML files,  Hmm.  Hmm.Hm ; Message-ID: <81f82$44dd593c$50db5015$23139@news.hispeed.ch>    Neil Rieck wrote:   ) > What version of Apache are you running? N > I've seen JavaScript get messed up by the STREAM_LF requirement. If you are M > running SWS-2.1 then you need to disable the STREAM_LF requirement via the   > following method: G > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/docs/openvms_notes_apache.html#sws21  >    Neil,   / I've checked your note there thanks. However...   I I found a peculiarity with the way that the robots.txt file is served up  ' by SWS-2.1. Validating robots.txt using   1 http://tool.motoricerca.info/robots-checker.phtml   I showed more lines than I expected. Doing a wget from my Mac, I could see  , the problem. My robots.txt looked like this:   53
 User-agent: *  Disallow: /cgi/  Disallow: /htdocs/manual/    0   B Sure enough, converting robots.txt to Stream_LF cured the problem.    @ P.S. On your web page, you specify "EnableMMap" but according to  9 http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/mod/core.html#enablemmap   9 that should read "EnableMMAP". Typo or doesn't it matter?      --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.446 ************************