1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 18 Aug 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 459       Contents: Re: Alpha remembrance day  Re: Alpha remembrance day  Re: Alpha remembrance day 8 How do you "collect a few PC samples" from a hung system< Re: How do you "collect a few PC samples" from a hung system< Re: How do you "collect a few PC samples" from a hung system< Re: How do you "collect a few PC samples" from a hung system< Re: How do you "collect a few PC samples" from a hung system< Re: How do you "collect a few PC samples" from a hung system< Re: How do you "collect a few PC samples" from a hung system< Re: How do you "collect a few PC samples" from a hung system Re: Ken Olsen VAX  Re: Ken Olsen VAX % Local mail server using modem dialout ) Re: Local mail server using modem dialout ) Re: Local mail server using modem dialout ) Re: Local mail server using modem dialout ! Re: Open Source Hardware? (SPARC) ! Re: Open Source Hardware? (SPARC) ! Re: Open Source Hardware? (SPARC)  Re: Samba / CIFS and ACLs % Re: The race for 8086 servers is on ! % Re: The race for 8086 servers is on !  Re: virtual memory leak?4 VMS Systems Administrator - Position in Indianapolis Wireless handhelds Re: Wireless handhelds RE: Wireless handhelds RE: Wireless handhelds Re: Wireless handhelds Re: Wireless handhelds Re: Wireless handhelds Re: Wireless handhelds Re: Wireless handhelds Re: Wireless handhelds Re: Wireless handhelds Re: Wireless handhelds  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 18 Aug 2006 11:35:17 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)" Subject: Re: Alpha remembrance day+ Message-ID: <4klmvlFcp3ceU1@individual.net>   , In article <44E51BF2.F3677A88@teksavvy.com>,0 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > J >                          Had there been a truly competant leader insteadJ > of Palmer, I think Digital might have bought Compaq instead of the other
 > way around.   E If DEC had hired a leader competent enough to turn the company arouns C and make it a success again he would hardly have been stupid enough  to buy Compaq!!    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 18 Aug 2006 07:45:30 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) " Subject: Re: Alpha remembrance day3 Message-ID: <I58l21zZnFbW@eisner.encompasserve.org>   \ In article <44E51BF2.F3677A88@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > I > In terms of Phase V, while it is today quite moot, remember that at the I > time it was launched, governments were mandating OSI compatibility, and * > DEC was one of the first ones to market.  B    I went to meetings with DEC where my coworkers passed on thier F    customer's (government) complaints that DEC was too slow to market >    ISO/OSI products.  DEC's response was to point out that theD    government hadn't yet written the standards for the products they
    wanted.  F    Then, after DEC, Sun, HP, and IIRC IBM, had sunk money into ISO/OSI<    the government decided they were perfectly happy with theD    shortcomings of IP networking and didn't buy any of the products.   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Aug 2006 08:30:00 -0700- From: "Andrew" <andrew_harrison@symantec.com> " Subject: Re: Alpha remembrance dayC Message-ID: <1155915000.102548.325590@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>    Bill Todd wrote: > Andrew wrote:  >  > ...  > L > >>> The whole discussion has now become extremely boring and so I will notI > >>> be responding to any more of your posts on this subject unless they K > >>> contain well thought out and relevant points which don't descend into  > >>> abuse. > >> Good riddance, asshole. > > G > > Let me spell it out for you since you seem to have missed the point 
 > > again. >    > Exactly what part of > I > "The whole discussion has now become extremely boring and so I will not E > be responding to any more of your posts on this subject unless they N > contain well thought out and relevant points which don't descend into abuse" > G > (still right up there above) would you suggest that I misinterpreted, H > asshole?  I was deliberately and pointedly abusive at least in part toI > see whether you'd hold to your expressed resolve - but, of course, your 7 > words there were as empty as most of your others are.   G Since we are obviously no longer discussing Alpha's apparent demise let  me offer you some advice.   E Being rude is not a means to winning an argument.  However good or in ? this case bad your case is descending into abuse is a sure fire E indicator of failure on the part of the poster, particularly if it is : accompanied with a failure to get to grips with the topic.  ? I expect that there are people who when faced with a barrage of G rudeness simply give up, it should be clear to you by now that I am not  one of them.  B Rudeness=Weakness and that far from enhancing the posters argument instead diminishes it.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Aug 2006 06:58:21 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>A Subject: How do you "collect a few PC samples" from a hung system C Message-ID: <1155909501.627720.176990@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>    Hello fellow VMSers,  F I have a hung MicroVAX 3100 Model 95. I want to force a crash dump. So I looked at the chart at  9     http://h71000.www7.hp.com/wizard/mv_boot.html#boot_os   2 and along with the proper console commands it says  E Note:  Before actually crashing the hang system collect a few      PC  samples.  5 How do you do this? What do I do with the PC samples?    Thanks.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 15:08:22 +0100 * From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>E Subject: Re: How do you "collect a few PC samples" from a hung system , Message-ID: <ec4hkm$pi2$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>  0 "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message = news:1155909501.627720.176990@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...   7 > How do you do this? What do I do with the PC samples?   3 Repeat: "Halt, E PC, continue" until you get bored. @ It's just a crude way of code profiling what your hang is doing.J If you just crash it, you might find the code has jumped to some interruptJ service routine at a higher priority than where the hang is at. That would# tend to make the diagnosis harder.     ------------------------------    Date: 18 Aug 2006 07:38:06 -0700/ From: "Volker Halle" <volker_halle@hotmail.com> E Subject: Re: How do you "collect a few PC samples" from a hung system C Message-ID: <1155911885.912531.322210@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>   B Especially note the last HALT-PC before you crash the system. This@ would tell you, at which PC the HALT command has interrupted the executing code.   F Once you have the dump written, you can look at the instruction stream with:   " $ ANAL/CRAS SYS$SYSTEM:SYSDUMP.DMP SDA> EXA/INS <halt-pc-value>  D Depending on the reason for the hang, the HALT PC may well be insideC the idle loop, which won't really help much. The HALT-PC would only G help, if it's in some kernel mode code (e.g. device driver etc.), which  may be looping.    Volker.    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Aug 2006 08:12:38 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>E Subject: Re: How do you "collect a few PC samples" from a hung system C Message-ID: <1155913958.164927.107420@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    Volker Halle wrote: D > Especially note the last HALT-PC before you crash the system. ThisB > would tell you, at which PC the HALT command has interrupted the > executing code.  > H > Once you have the dump written, you can look at the instruction stream > with:  > $ > $ ANAL/CRAS SYS$SYSTEM:SYSDUMP.DMP > SDA> EXA/INS <halt-pc-value> > F > Depending on the reason for the hang, the HALT PC may well be insideE > the idle loop, which won't really help much. The HALT-PC would only I > help, if it's in some kernel mode code (e.g. device driver etc.), which  > may be looping.  > 	 > Volker.   D Okay. I pressed the halt button and repeated E PC and this is what I got:   ?02 EXT HLT          PC = 82E8915B  >>>E PC    G 0000000F 82E8915B  >>>E PC    G 0000000F 82E8915B  >>>  >>>E PC    G 0000000F 82E8915B  >>>  >>>E PC    G 0000000F 82E8915B  >>>  >>>E PC    G 0000000F 82E8915B  >>>  >>>E PC    G 0000000F 82E8915B  >>>E PSL   M 00000000 04030004  >>>E/I/N:4 0   I 00000000 82E8F618    I 00000004 83D11600    I 00000008 82E50400    I 0000000C 03EFA600    I 00000010 00005620  >>>D PC FFFFFFFF
 >>>D S/S^U >>>D PSL 041F0000  >>>C    D **** Fatal BUG CHECK, version = V6.1     INVEXCEPTN, Exception while" above ASTDEL or on interrupt stack  (     Crash CPU: 00        Primary CPU: 00  1     Active/available CPU masks: 00000001/00000001        Current process = NULL   ...   D I ran this 82E8915B value thru ANAL/CRASH EXA/INS like you suggested and got the following:   $ ANAL/CRASH _Dump File: EXE        VAX/VMS System dump analyzer  @ %SDA-W-INCOMPL, global pages not completely written in dump file5 %SDA-W-NOTSAVED, processes not saved in the dump file % Dump taken on 18-AUG-2006 14:29:58.29 > INVEXCEPTN, Exception while above ASTDEL or on interrupt stack   SDA> EXA/INS 82E8915B  PROCESS_MANAGEMENT+0015B:  BBS. R1,@#SCH$GL_IDLE_CPUS,PROCESS_MANAGEMENT+00147  G (Yes, I know -- I have to increase the size of the dump file. I will do # that with the next run of AUTOGEN.)   G I looked at CLUE and saw a number of processes in the RWMPB state. So I E think this may be the 497.1-day--uptime bug as the system has been up F for about 515 days. (This is a test system and I wanted to see the bug in action.)   ' <FF>Summary of System at time of Crash:   ?  PCB    State CPU Process Name     Username     EPID    Pri PHD  Wkset   D 82E8F1A0   HIB    SWAPPER                       00000081 16 82E8F000   0 D 8350F640 RWMPB    _NTA1:           SYSTEM       0000C603  6 84927600 318 D 8345B8C0   HIB    IPCACP           SYSTEM       00000085 10 83D13E00 166 D 8345BAC0   HIB    ERRFMT           SYSTEM       00000086  8 83E6B600 273 D 8345BCC0   HIB    OPCOM            SYSTEM       00000087  8 83F17200 187 D 8345BEC0   HIB    AUDIT_SERVER     AUDIT$SERVER 00000088 10 83FC2E00 827 D 8345C0C0   HIB    JOB_CONTROL      SYSTEM       00000089  8 8406EA00 387 D 8345C2C0   HIB    QUEUE_MANAGER    SYSTEM       0000008A  9 8411A600 1203D 8345C4C0   HIB    SECURITY_SERVER  SYSTEM       0000008B 10 841C6200 1404D 8345C6C0   HIB    NETACP           DECNET       0000008C 10 84271E00 480 D 8345C8C0   HIB    EVL              DECNET       0000008D  6 8431DA00 632 D 8345B6C0   HIB    REMACP           SYSTEM       0000008E  9 843C9600  81 D 8345CCC0   LEF    TCPware_NETCP    SYSTEM       0000008F 10 84475200 1142D 8345CEC0   HIB    TCPware_DNS      SYSTEM       00000090  7 84520E00 1428D 8345CAC0   LEF    TCPware_NTPD     SYSTEM       00000093  8 84724200 921 D 8346D380   LEF    TCPware_SNMPD    SYSTEM       00000094  7 847CFE00 837 D 8348AF80   HIB    LATACP           SYSTEM       00000095 14 8487BA00 289 D 8348CC00   HIB    SYMBIONT_2       SYSTEM       00000098  6 849D3200  86 D 8345B0C0   LEF    BATCH_646        SYSTEM       0000009C  6 84B2AA00 457 D 83462600   LEF    BATCH_175        FT           0000C3A6  6 84D2DE00 121 D 83463700   HIB    BATCH_173        FT           0000CBA7  6 85337A00 977 D 8345E180   LEF    BATCH_174        FT           0000CB28  6 84C82200 3684D 83464EC0   LEF    BATCH_176        FT           0000CB29  6 857E9E00 661 D 83468700   LEF    BATCH_177        FT           0000CB2A  6 855E6A00 736 D 8346BBC0 RWMPB    BATCH_178        FT           0000CB2B  6 85941600 20300 D 83471200 RWMPB    BATCH_179        FT           0000CAAC  4 84FDCE00 201 D 83471580 RWMPB    BATCH_180        FT           0000C9AD  4 85134600 201 D 83499080 RWMPB    BATCH_181        FT           0000C22E  4 853E3600 201 D 8348A3C0 RWMPB    BATCH_182        FT           0000CB2F  3 84A7EE00 201 D 83471B00 RWMPB    BATCH_184        FT           0000CBB0  4 85A98E00 201 D 8349A300 RWMPB    BATCH_183        FT           0000CBB1  4 8548F200 201 D 8349E040 RWMPB    BATCH_185        FT           0000CB32  4 8528BE00 201 E  8349F480 RWMPB    BATCH_186        FT           0000CBB3  4 84BD6600   201D 8349DB40 RWMPB    BATCH_170        SYSTEM       0000C934  4 84DD9A00 201 D 83461C40 RWMPB    NML_24968        NML$SERVER   0000CB35  6 84E85600 407 D 8352D240 RWMPB    LOGFILE          LOGFILE      0000CB36  5 851E0200 211 D 834583C0 RWMPB    _OPA0:           <login>      0000CAB7  5 8573E200 201 D 83499500 RWMPB    _NTA5:           <login>      0000CBB8  4 85088A00 201 D 8349F9C0 RWMPB    _RTA1:           <login>      0000C539  4 85895A00 201 D 834CA680 RWMPB    NML_24970        NML$SERVER   0000CBBA  4 8553AE00 201 D 833DC600 RWMPB    SYSTEM           SYSTEM       0000C8D2  5 84678600 395 D 83447700   LEF    FTMGR            FTMGR        0000C7D3  5 859ED200 538   C I also ran ANAL/ERROR and the time of the invalid exception was the B time I crashed it, not went it got hung earlier today, so I assume> that's somewhat of a red herring. Strangely, the uptime in theG ANAL/ERROR output was about 4 days when the system had been up for more 5 like 515. I've noticed this before with high uptimes.   4 Thanks to both of you who responded to my questions.  H (Yes, I am planning to upgrade to VMS 6.2 and apply all relevant ECO's.)   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Aug 2006 08:39:07 -0700 From: mckinneyj@saic.comE Subject: Re: How do you "collect a few PC samples" from a hung system B Message-ID: <1155915547.527306.58960@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>  
 AEF wrote: > Volker Halle wrote: F > > Especially note the last HALT-PC before you crash the system. ThisD > > would tell you, at which PC the HALT command has interrupted the > > executing code.  > > J > > Once you have the dump written, you can look at the instruction stream	 > > with:  > > & > > $ ANAL/CRAS SYS$SYSTEM:SYSDUMP.DMP  > > SDA> EXA/INS <halt-pc-value> > > H > > Depending on the reason for the hang, the HALT PC may well be insideG > > the idle loop, which won't really help much. The HALT-PC would only K > > help, if it's in some kernel mode code (e.g. device driver etc.), which  > > may be looping.  > >  > > Volker.  > F > Okay. I pressed the halt button and repeated E PC and this is what I > got: > 
 > ?02 EXT HLT  >         PC = 82E8915B 	 > >>>E PC  >   G 0000000F 82E8915B 	 > >>>E PC  >   G 0000000F 82E8915B  > >>> 	 > >>>E PC  >   G 0000000F 82E8915B  > >>> 	 > >>>E PC  >   G 0000000F 82E8915B  > >>> 	 > >>>E PC  >   G 0000000F 82E8915B  > >>> 	 > >>>E PC  >   G 0000000F 82E8915B 
 > >>>E PSL >   M 00000000 04030004  > >>>E/I/N:4 0 >   I 00000000 82E8F618  >   I 00000004 83D11600  >   I 00000008 82E50400  >   I 0000000C 03EFA600  >   I 00000010 00005620  > >>>D PC FFFFFFFF > >>>D S/S^U > >>>D PSL 041F0000  > >>>C >  > F > **** Fatal BUG CHECK, version = V6.1     INVEXCEPTN, Exception while$ > above ASTDEL or on interrupt stack > * >     Crash CPU: 00        Primary CPU: 00 > 3 >     Active/available CPU masks: 00000001/00000001  >  >     Current process = NULL >  > ...  > F > I ran this 82E8915B value thru ANAL/CRASH EXA/INS like you suggested > and got the following: >  > $ ANAL/CRASH > _Dump File: EXE  >  >  >  > VAX/VMS System dump analyzer > B > %SDA-W-INCOMPL, global pages not completely written in dump file7 > %SDA-W-NOTSAVED, processes not saved in the dump file ' > Dump taken on 18-AUG-2006 14:29:58.29 @ > INVEXCEPTN, Exception while above ASTDEL or on interrupt stack >  > SDA> EXA/INS 82E8915B   > PROCESS_MANAGEMENT+0015B:  BBS0 > R1,@#SCH$GL_IDLE_CPUS,PROCESS_MANAGEMENT+00147 > I > (Yes, I know -- I have to increase the size of the dump file. I will do % > that with the next run of AUTOGEN.)  > I > I looked at CLUE and saw a number of processes in the RWMPB state. So I G > think this may be the 497.1-day--uptime bug as the system has been up H > for about 515 days. (This is a test system and I wanted to see the bug
 > in action.)  > ) > <FF>Summary of System at time of Crash:  > A >  PCB    State CPU Process Name     Username     EPID    Pri PHD  > Wkset  > F > 82E8F1A0   HIB    SWAPPER                       00000081 16 82E8F000 >   0 F > 8350F640 RWMPB    _NTA1:           SYSTEM       0000C603  6 84927600 > 318 F > 8345B8C0   HIB    IPCACP           SYSTEM       00000085 10 83D13E00 > 166 F > 8345BAC0   HIB    ERRFMT           SYSTEM       00000086  8 83E6B600 > 273 F > 8345BCC0   HIB    OPCOM            SYSTEM       00000087  8 83F17200 > 187 F > 8345BEC0   HIB    AUDIT_SERVER     AUDIT$SERVER 00000088 10 83FC2E00 > 827 F > 8345C0C0   HIB    JOB_CONTROL      SYSTEM       00000089  8 8406EA00 > 387 F > 8345C2C0   HIB    QUEUE_MANAGER    SYSTEM       0000008A  9 8411A600 > 1203F > 8345C4C0   HIB    SECURITY_SERVER  SYSTEM       0000008B 10 841C6200 > 1404F > 8345C6C0   HIB    NETACP           DECNET       0000008C 10 84271E00 > 480 F > 8345C8C0   HIB    EVL              DECNET       0000008D  6 8431DA00 > 632 F > 8345B6C0   HIB    REMACP           SYSTEM       0000008E  9 843C9600 >  81 F > 8345CCC0   LEF    TCPware_NETCP    SYSTEM       0000008F 10 84475200 > 1142F > 8345CEC0   HIB    TCPware_DNS      SYSTEM       00000090  7 84520E00 > 1428F > 8345CAC0   LEF    TCPware_NTPD     SYSTEM       00000093  8 84724200 > 921 F > 8346D380   LEF    TCPware_SNMPD    SYSTEM       00000094  7 847CFE00 > 837 F > 8348AF80   HIB    LATACP           SYSTEM       00000095 14 8487BA00 > 289 F > 8348CC00   HIB    SYMBIONT_2       SYSTEM       00000098  6 849D3200 >  86 F > 8345B0C0   LEF    BATCH_646        SYSTEM       0000009C  6 84B2AA00 > 457 F > 83462600   LEF    BATCH_175        FT           0000C3A6  6 84D2DE00 > 121 F > 83463700   HIB    BATCH_173        FT           0000CBA7  6 85337A00 > 977 F > 8345E180   LEF    BATCH_174        FT           0000CB28  6 84C82200 > 3684F > 83464EC0   LEF    BATCH_176        FT           0000CB29  6 857E9E00 > 661 F > 83468700   LEF    BATCH_177        FT           0000CB2A  6 855E6A00 > 736 F > 8346BBC0 RWMPB    BATCH_178        FT           0000CB2B  6 85941600 > 20300 F > 83471200 RWMPB    BATCH_179        FT           0000CAAC  4 84FDCE00 > 201 F > 83471580 RWMPB    BATCH_180        FT           0000C9AD  4 85134600 > 201 F > 83499080 RWMPB    BATCH_181        FT           0000C22E  4 853E3600 > 201 F > 8348A3C0 RWMPB    BATCH_182        FT           0000CB2F  3 84A7EE00 > 201 F > 83471B00 RWMPB    BATCH_184        FT           0000CBB0  4 85A98E00 > 201 F > 8349A300 RWMPB    BATCH_183        FT           0000CBB1  4 8548F200 > 201 F > 8349E040 RWMPB    BATCH_185        FT           0000CB32  4 8528BE00 > 201 G >  8349F480 RWMPB    BATCH_186        FT           0000CBB3  4 84BD6600  >  201F > 8349DB40 RWMPB    BATCH_170        SYSTEM       0000C934  4 84DD9A00 > 201 F > 83461C40 RWMPB    NML_24968        NML$SERVER   0000CB35  6 84E85600 > 407 F > 8352D240 RWMPB    LOGFILE          LOGFILE      0000CB36  5 851E0200 > 211 F > 834583C0 RWMPB    _OPA0:           <login>      0000CAB7  5 8573E200 > 201 F > 83499500 RWMPB    _NTA5:           <login>      0000CBB8  4 85088A00 > 201 F > 8349F9C0 RWMPB    _RTA1:           <login>      0000C539  4 85895A00 > 201 F > 834CA680 RWMPB    NML_24970        NML$SERVER   0000CBBA  4 8553AE00 > 201 F > 833DC600 RWMPB    SYSTEM           SYSTEM       0000C8D2  5 84678600 > 395 F > 83447700   LEF    FTMGR            FTMGR        0000C7D3  5 859ED200 > 538  > E > I also ran ANAL/ERROR and the time of the invalid exception was the D > time I crashed it, not went it got hung earlier today, so I assume@ > that's somewhat of a red herring. Strangely, the uptime in theI > ANAL/ERROR output was about 4 days when the system had been up for more 7 > like 515. I've noticed this before with high uptimes.  > 6 > Thanks to both of you who responded to my questions. > J > (Yes, I am planning to upgrade to VMS 6.2 and apply all relevant ECO's.)  C And you should also insure that your page/swap files are adequately E sized. RWMPB is often indicative of insufficient space in one or both  of these files...    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Aug 2006 08:48:20 -0700/ From: "Volker Halle" <volker_halle@hotmail.com> E Subject: Re: How do you "collect a few PC samples" from a hung system A Message-ID: <1155916100.557422.27400@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    Yes, this IS the IDLE loop.   4 SDA> EXA EXE$GL_ABSTIM_TICS ! should have overflowed  C The MPW$GL_SVAPTE_TIME is own data of the swapper and not available E symbolically in SDA without access to the source listings/map of your  version of OpenVMS.    Volker.    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Aug 2006 10:18:23 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>E Subject: Re: How do you "collect a few PC samples" from a hung system B Message-ID: <1155921503.195032.292100@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   mckinneyj@saic.com wrote:  > AEF wrote: [...] # Summary of System at time of Crash:  > > C > >  PCB    State CPU Process Name     Username     EPID    Pri PHD 	 > > Wkset  > > H > > 82E8F1A0   HIB    SWAPPER                       00000081 16 82E8F000 > >   0 H > > 8350F640 RWMPB    _NTA1:           SYSTEM       0000C603  6 84927600 > > 318 H > > 8345B8C0   HIB    IPCACP           SYSTEM       00000085 10 83D13E00 > > 166 H > > 8345BAC0   HIB    ERRFMT           SYSTEM       00000086  8 83E6B600 > > 273 H > > 8345BCC0   HIB    OPCOM            SYSTEM       00000087  8 83F17200 > > 187 H > > 8345BEC0   HIB    AUDIT_SERVER     AUDIT$SERVER 00000088 10 83FC2E00 > > 827 H > > 8345C0C0   HIB    JOB_CONTROL      SYSTEM       00000089  8 8406EA00 > > 387 H > > 8345C2C0   HIB    QUEUE_MANAGER    SYSTEM       0000008A  9 8411A600 > > 1203H > > 8345C4C0   HIB    SECURITY_SERVER  SYSTEM       0000008B 10 841C6200 > > 1404H > > 8345C6C0   HIB    NETACP           DECNET       0000008C 10 84271E00 > > 480 H > > 8345C8C0   HIB    EVL              DECNET       0000008D  6 8431DA00 > > 632 H > > 8345B6C0   HIB    REMACP           SYSTEM       0000008E  9 843C9600 > >  81 H > > 8345CCC0   LEF    TCPware_NETCP    SYSTEM       0000008F 10 84475200 > > 1142H > > 8345CEC0   HIB    TCPware_DNS      SYSTEM       00000090  7 84520E00 > > 1428H > > 8345CAC0   LEF    TCPware_NTPD     SYSTEM       00000093  8 84724200 > > 921 H > > 8346D380   LEF    TCPware_SNMPD    SYSTEM       00000094  7 847CFE00 > > 837 H > > 8348AF80   HIB    LATACP           SYSTEM       00000095 14 8487BA00 > > 289 H > > 8348CC00   HIB    SYMBIONT_2       SYSTEM       00000098  6 849D3200 > >  86 H > > 8345B0C0   LEF    BATCH_646        SYSTEM       0000009C  6 84B2AA00 > > 457 H > > 83462600   LEF    BATCH_175        FT           0000C3A6  6 84D2DE00 > > 121 H > > 83463700   HIB    BATCH_173        FT           0000CBA7  6 85337A00 > > 977 H > > 8345E180   LEF    BATCH_174        FT           0000CB28  6 84C82200 > > 3684H > > 83464EC0   LEF    BATCH_176        FT           0000CB29  6 857E9E00 > > 661 H > > 83468700   LEF    BATCH_177        FT           0000CB2A  6 855E6A00 > > 736 H > > 8346BBC0 RWMPB    BATCH_178        FT           0000CB2B  6 85941600	 > > 20300 H > > 83471200 RWMPB    BATCH_179        FT           0000CAAC  4 84FDCE00 > > 201 H > > 83471580 RWMPB    BATCH_180        FT           0000C9AD  4 85134600 > > 201 H > > 83499080 RWMPB    BATCH_181        FT           0000C22E  4 853E3600 > > 201 H > > 8348A3C0 RWMPB    BATCH_182        FT           0000CB2F  3 84A7EE00 > > 201 H > > 83471B00 RWMPB    BATCH_184        FT           0000CBB0  4 85A98E00 > > 201 H > > 8349A300 RWMPB    BATCH_183        FT           0000CBB1  4 8548F200 > > 201 H > > 8349E040 RWMPB    BATCH_185        FT           0000CB32  4 8528BE00 > > 201 I > >  8349F480 RWMPB    BATCH_186        FT           0000CBB3  4 84BD6600  > >  201H > > 8349DB40 RWMPB    BATCH_170        SYSTEM       0000C934  4 84DD9A00 > > 201 H > > 83461C40 RWMPB    NML_24968        NML$SERVER   0000CB35  6 84E85600 > > 407 H > > 8352D240 RWMPB    LOGFILE          LOGFILE      0000CB36  5 851E0200 > > 211 H > > 834583C0 RWMPB    _OPA0:           <login>      0000CAB7  5 8573E200 > > 201 H > > 83499500 RWMPB    _NTA5:           <login>      0000CBB8  4 85088A00 > > 201 H > > 8349F9C0 RWMPB    _RTA1:           <login>      0000C539  4 85895A00 > > 201 H > > 834CA680 RWMPB    NML_24970        NML$SERVER   0000CBBA  4 8553AE00 > > 201 H > > 833DC600 RWMPB    SYSTEM           SYSTEM       0000C8D2  5 84678600 > > 395 H > > 83447700   LEF    FTMGR            FTMGR        0000C7D3  5 859ED200 > > 538  > > G > > I also ran ANAL/ERROR and the time of the invalid exception was the F > > time I crashed it, not went it got hung earlier today, so I assumeB > > that's somewhat of a red herring. Strangely, the uptime in theK > > ANAL/ERROR output was about 4 days when the system had been up for more 9 > > like 515. I've noticed this before with high uptimes.  > > 8 > > Thanks to both of you who responded to my questions. > > L > > (Yes, I am planning to upgrade to VMS 6.2 and apply all relevant ECO's.) > E > And you should also insure that your page/swap files are adequately G > sized. RWMPB is often indicative of insufficient space in one or both  > of these files...   G They're plenty big, and I've run much bigger loads on this same machine @ without this happening. And I'm familiar with the RWMPB symptom.  ( The 497.1-day-uptime bug goes like this:  ' Problems addressed in VAXSYSA02_062 kit     C       o  If a system has been up for 497.1 days without  rebooting,  the C          system  cell  EXE$GL_ABSTIM_TICS (number of 10 millisecond  ticsB          since  boot)  will  overflow.   This  problem  can  cause someB          processes   to   remain  indefinitely  in  the  RWMPB  or COMO@          scheduling state.  Furthermore, candidate processes for Virtual 9          Balance Set Slot (VBSS) selection can be missed.   >          Code using the EXE$GL_ABSTIM_TICS cell to time  other activityD          could  get stuck if a reference counter is large (FFFFxxxx) and >          the  EXE$GL_ABSTIM_TICS  value  is  low  due  to  the overflowE          (0000xxxx).   Most  such checks compare to see if the number  ofA          tics is larger than the reference value, i.e.   has  the  event           come due?    ' So I'm pretty sure this is what it was.   < I'm surprised, though, that it took about 18 days to happen.   AEF    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Aug 2006 10:36:52 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>E Subject: Re: How do you "collect a few PC samples" from a hung system A Message-ID: <1155922611.977213.79960@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    Volker Halle wrote:  > Yes, this IS the IDLE loop.    Thanks!    > 6 > SDA> EXA EXE$GL_ABSTIM_TICS ! should have overflowed   SDA> EXA EXE$GL_ABSTIM_TICS & EXE$GL_ABSTIM_TICS:  0A103A83   ".:.."  G Hmmm. This doesn't match the overflow indication from the VAXSYSA02_062 
 release notes   B "...the  EXE$GL_ABSTIM_TICS  value  is  low  due  to  the overflow 0000xxxx)."   9 So what does it mean? Is it still a "bad" value for this?   E > The MPW$GL_SVAPTE_TIME is own data of the swapper and not available G > symbolically in SDA without access to the source listings/map of your  > version of OpenVMS.  > 	 > Volker.   " What is "own data of the swapper"?   Thanks again for your help.    AEF    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Aug 2006 06:08:23 -0700 From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: Ken Olsen VAXC Message-ID: <1155906503.273726.284720@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   ( Yes, and our thanks as well please Hoff.   Neil Rieck wrote: ; > "Hoff Hoffman" <hoff-remove-this@hp.com> wrote in message * > news:%f_Eg.67$EU4.24@news.cpqcorp.net... > > Russ Leathe wrote: > [...snip...] > > I > >   I can usually be standing near the Guillotine Gate in less than two H > > hours from receiving a call, and yes, I know my way around the Mill.K > > (Well, I used to be able to find my way around.  I'd expect more than a N > > few walls and halls and partitions have changed over the years.)  Building > > 12?  > >  > [...snip...] >  > > ? > >   There are hardware configuration details (still) missing.  > > L > >   Copying the files onto or via a Microsoft Windows or Unix or Linux boxM > > can mess up the OpenVMS file attributes, particularly if you're not using K > > the correct tools and the right command options.  Just last week, I was L > > cleaning up a similarly-triggered corruption in a source archive someoneG > > had (mis)created. It's generally better and safer and easier to use , > > OpenVMS tools to preserve OpenVMS files. > > N > >   If you wish assistance, send me mail and we can discuss this off-line --J > > and as I stated, I can be in Maynard in a couple of hours.  I can alsoK > > bring along additional I/O hardware and media, if and as needed for the B > > safe-keeping of the data for the transfer of the system to its > > destination. > >  > ; > Hoff. Please pass along all our best wishes to Ken Olsen.  >  > Neil Rieck > Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  > Ontario, Canada.: > http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 13:57:57 GMT , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com> Subject: Re: Ken Olsen VAX/ Message-ID: <FHjFg.154$Ou5.85@news.cpqcorp.net>    etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk wrote: * > Yes, and our thanks as well please Hoff.  =    Haven't heard anything back on the offer to visit Maynard.   D    If the opportunity presents itself, I will pass along the thanks.   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Aug 2006 01:36:48 -0700- From: "Chrissie" <lunanera@women-at-work.org> . Subject: Local mail server using modem dialoutC Message-ID: <1155890208.473361.210370@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   F I'm actually trying to get VMS replacing an linux machine for handling email. What i need is:  2 - Outgoing mail is to be spooled for one smarthostF - Automatic dialout every 60 mins, then sending all mails to smarthost using SMTP-AUTH! - Fetching POP3 accounts - Hanging up  G I'd like to use uucp instead but uucp seems not to be available on AXP.   F Any approach for me? Smarthost seems not to be the problem, but how to% identify by means of SMTP-AUTH to it?    tia  chrissie   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 11:18:46 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk2 Subject: Re: Local mail server using modem dialout, Message-ID: <ec47mm$mf6$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>  s In article <1155890208.473361.210370@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "Chrissie" <lunanera@women-at-work.org> writes: G >I'm actually trying to get VMS replacing an linux machine for handling  >email. What i need is:  > 3 >- Outgoing mail is to be spooled for one smarthost G >- Automatic dialout every 60 mins, then sending all mails to smarthost  >using SMTP-AUTH!  >- Fetching POP3 accounts 
 >- Hanging up  > H >I'd like to use uucp instead but uucp seems not to be available on AXP. > G >Any approach for me? Smarthost seems not to be the problem, but how to & >identify by means of SMTP-AUTH to it? >  >tia	 >chrissie  > K There was a discussion just recently in this group about using SMTP-AUTH to 5 connect to an ISP's mailserver from a VMS mailserver. I Google for the thread "Authentication for outgoing TCP/IP Services mail?" 0 which was started by Paul Sture on Aug 5th 2006.    ; Unfortunately at the moment it doesn't seem to be possible.   N I've raised it as an issue with Process to try and get the functionality added
 into PMDF.  M I've pitched it as for hobbyist use (PMDF is now available free to hobbyist's N and I imagined that would be the main use). Is this for home use as a hobbyist or for business use ? M The argument to provide this functionality might carry more weight if I could N show that there were business needs for this functionality as well as hobbyist needs.  N (You never know Process might even be persuaded to add the functionality into 9 the smtp servers they provide with Multinet and TCPware).     
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Aug 2006 11:50:24 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)2 Subject: Re: Local mail server using modem dialout+ Message-ID: <4klns0Fcp3ceU2@individual.net>   C In article <1155890208.473361.210370@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, 0 	"Chrissie" <lunanera@women-at-work.org> writes:H > I'm actually trying to get VMS replacing an linux machine for handling > email. What i need is: > 4 > - Outgoing mail is to be spooled for one smarthostH > - Automatic dialout every 60 mins, then sending all mails to smarthost > using SMTP-AUTH! > - Fetching POP3 accounts > - Hanging up > I > I'd like to use uucp instead but uucp seems not to be available on AXP.   G I knoe there was a UUCP implementation for VMS ages ago.  Being as UUCP G hasn't changed much in the last decade :-) I would imagine if you found H the sources you could build this on an Alpha as easily as on a VAX.  TheD big question then would be; "Who are you going to call to relay mail using UUCP?"  :-)    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------    Date: 18 Aug 2006 07:49:45 -0500; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 2 Subject: Re: Local mail server using modem dialout3 Message-ID: <2B97KHZggKBp@eisner.encompasserve.org>   V In article <4klns0Fcp3ceU2@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:  I > I knoe there was a UUCP implementation for VMS ages ago.  Being as UUCP I > hasn't changed much in the last decade :-) I would imagine if you found J > the sources you could build this on an Alpha as easily as on a VAX.  TheF > big question then would be; "Who are you going to call to relay mail > using UUCP?"  :-)   C    There was VAXnet, which was based on uucp, and I think is in the C    DECUS archives.  I think it eventually was fully compatable when :    communicating with uucp, but not in it's setup scripts.  9    Dial up?  You have dial up?  Is Fido-net still around?    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Aug 2006 01:34:41 -0700  From: "Ian Miller" <ijm@uk2.net>* Subject: Re: Open Source Hardware? (SPARC)B Message-ID: <1155890080.939908.24200@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>   healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: <SNIP> > L > The FAQ is especially worth reading as it talks about the commercial toolsI > that you will need in order to do anything with what they're providing. L > These kinds of tools aren't cheap.  Also, how many people have access to a( > FAB in order to manufacture the chips? > A I think releasing this is more of a PR excersise. Some people who A interested in CPU design will find it interesting andit may be of @ interest to kernel or complier developers but can most people do anything with this info.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 04:09:13 -0500 % From: Dan Foster <usenet@evilphb.org> * Subject: Re: Open Source Hardware? (SPARC)5 Message-ID: <slrneeb0tp.sng.usenet@zappy.catbert.org>   b In article <1155890080.939908.24200@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>, Ian Miller <ijm@uk2.net> wrote: >  > healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: ><SNIP>  >>M >> The FAQ is especially worth reading as it talks about the commercial tools J >> that you will need in order to do anything with what they're providing.M >> These kinds of tools aren't cheap.  Also, how many people have access to a ) >> FAB in order to manufacture the chips?  >>C > I think releasing this is more of a PR excersise. Some people who C > interested in CPU design will find it interesting andit may be of B > interest to kernel or complier developers but can most people do > anything with this info.  G Pretty much these whom can realistically use this information: computer ? science students taking OS design courses, compiler writers, OS < developers, and OS porters doing initial bringup for a port.  C Knowing this information would assist in porting other OSes to this ? hardware platform... which may be one of the reasons why Sun is  releasing this.   H It's certainly an interesting move. I should note that they released theG microarchitecture info for the OpenSPARC T1, rather than their flagship  product, UltraSPARC T1.   D So... this released information may or may not have all the hardwareF tricks used for performance. Still, an interesting set of documents on
 the whole.  E Certainly has come a long way since the 6502's microarchitecture. :-)    -Dan  B P.S. The UltraSPARC T1 has absymal FP performance due to a single,@ shared FPU which bottlenecks nicely with any FP traffic; this is? supposed to be significantly improved with the next chip (T2 or 
 whatever).   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Aug 2006 06:43:49 -0700- From: "Andrew" <andrew_harrison@symantec.com> * Subject: Re: Open Source Hardware? (SPARC)C Message-ID: <1155908629.038895.178510@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Dan Foster wrote: d > In article <1155890080.939908.24200@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>, Ian Miller <ijm@uk2.net> wrote: > >  > > healyzh@aracnet.com wrote:	 > ><SNIP>  > >>O > >> The FAQ is especially worth reading as it talks about the commercial tools L > >> that you will need in order to do anything with what they're providing.O > >> These kinds of tools aren't cheap.  Also, how many people have access to a + > >> FAB in order to manufacture the chips?  > >>E > > I think releasing this is more of a PR excersise. Some people who E > > interested in CPU design will find it interesting andit may be of D > > interest to kernel or complier developers but can most people do > > anything with this info. > I > Pretty much these whom can realistically use this information: computer A > science students taking OS design courses, compiler writers, OS > > developers, and OS porters doing initial bringup for a port. > E > Knowing this information would assist in porting other OSes to this A > hardware platform... which may be one of the reasons why Sun is  > releasing this.  > J > It's certainly an interesting move. I should note that they released theI > microarchitecture info for the OpenSPARC T1, rather than their flagship  > product, UltraSPARC T1.  > F > So... this released information may or may not have all the hardwareH > tricks used for performance. Still, an interesting set of documents on > the whole. > G > Certainly has come a long way since the 6502's microarchitecture. :-)  >  > -Dan > D > P.S. The UltraSPARC T1 has absymal FP performance due to a single,B > shared FPU which bottlenecks nicely with any FP traffic; this isA > supposed to be significantly improved with the next chip (T2 or  > whatever).  E They booted Solaris on the T2 in May over 3 months ahead of Schedule. G T2 has has floating point support in each of the 8 T2 cores rather than 1 a single FP unit shared by the 8 cores in the T1.   @ The T2 is unlikely to scream for single threaded FP apps, the T2F pipeline is a bit to sparse for that but it should be much better thanB T1. You will should also expect to see Sun publishing SPECint_rateF numbers for the T2 something they havn't don't for the T1 because some@ of the SPECint benchmarks actually execute some FP instructions.  E Expectations are that the T2 will deliver over 2x the T1 thoughput on F Int multi-threaded workloads with bigger increases possible for crypto0 heavy workloads and network intensive workloads.   Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 14:19:38 GMT 7 From: John Malmberg <malmberg@dskwld.zko.hp.compaq.dec> " Subject: Re: Samba / CIFS and ACLs0 Message-ID: <_%jFg.158$0u5.118@news.cpqcorp.net>   Jack Patteeuw wrote: > D >> SAMBA expects a draft POSIX ACL implementation, or some specific & >> private UNIX ACL implementation.    > E > I have heard that NFS V4 includes ACLs of some type.  Is the POSIX  0 > standard compatible with the NFS V4 standard ?  E I do not know, as I have not looked at NFS V4 at all.  I also really  % have not read the POSIX draft either.   F Some of the documentation with the POSIX ACL draft indicates that who E ever sets the POSIX standards has decided to abandon it at the draft  H stage.  So it is not really a POSIX standard, nor is it likely to be in  the future.   D An Internet search will show the draft text, that history, and some ) LINUX distributions that have adopted it.   D The text of the POSIX draft looks laborious to read, and I have not = determined if the POSIX ACLs work anything like OpenVMS ACLs.   G Since NFS had it's birth with SUN, I would tend to expect that any ACL  H implementation in NFS would be similar to ACLs in Solaris.  But that is A just a guess.  I have not looked at how Solaris does ACLs either.    -John ! malmberg@dskwld.zko.hp.compaq.dec  Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 02:56:52 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> . Subject: Re: The race for 8086 servers is on !9 Message-ID: <Ga-dnZYALt6V_njZnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@libcom.com>    bclaremont wrote: I > Porting VMS to other processors would be a wise move, helping reinforce G > the survivability of the O/S.  Tieing an O/S to a single architecture ! > in this day and age is foolish.  > G > Unfortunately, at its business core HP still views an O/S as a way to G > move iron, rather that as a standalone product that can generate it's G > own revenue stream (Linux is an up and coming example of the latter). I > Until this attitude changes, the long term survivability of VMS remains 
 > at risk. >   C How about reading the above slowly, and think about what's written.   4 Linux, a free OS, generates it's own revenue stream.  E Several Operating Systems that HP owns and receives license fees are   just to sell hardware.  @ Somebody needs some classes in logic, and I don't think it's me.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Aug 2006 06:17:19 -0700 From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk. Subject: Re: The race for 8086 servers is on !C Message-ID: <1155907039.495090.277090@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   C This is something that's been mentioned and discussed several times 	 recently.   E Digital had a large software portfolio and the software sold the kit. G You wanted Fortran?  Sure, you can run it on this VAX.  You want a word C processor?  Sure, you can run it on this DECmate or this Rainbox or 	 this VAX.   C Business models are different these days.  You buy a word processor C from a third party.  The database may come from CA or Oracle.  This ? leaves the hardware and the O/S for companies like Sun, HP etc.    Steve    bclaremont wrote: I > Porting VMS to other processors would be a wise move, helping reinforce G > the survivability of the O/S.  Tieing an O/S to a single architecture ! > in this day and age is foolish.  > G > Unfortunately, at its business core HP still views an O/S as a way to G > move iron, rather that as a standalone product that can generate it's G > own revenue stream (Linux is an up and coming example of the latter). I > Until this attitude changes, the long term survivability of VMS remains 
 > at risk.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 16:25:55 GMT , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>! Subject: Re: virtual memory leak? / Message-ID: <nSlFg.171$cA5.57@news.cpqcorp.net>     Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER wrote:  < >> DEC AXPVMS OPENVMS V7.3-2           Platform    Installed > M > If you're not nailed to V7.3-2, consider upgrading ASAP (at least to V8.2). P > VMS V8.3 is already out and V7.3-2 support period ends soon: Dec-2006 (=> PVS)  N    To clarify, OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2 will be moving into Prior Version Support O (PVS) status, and out of Current Version Support (CVS) status.  PVS for V7.3-2  M will continue.  See the PVS links in the FAQ for the specific dates for your  C locality, as these transitional dates can and do vary by geography.   O    And yes, being behind on your ECOs can and does mean you can end up chasing  ? down problems that have already been found and fixed and ECOed.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 10:09:44 -0400 + From: Chuck Aaron <caaron@ceris.purdue.edu> = Subject: VMS Systems Administrator - Position in Indianapolis 5 Message-ID: <ec4hn7$p4p$1@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu>   H If anyone might be interested in this position and location, please let ) me know. I have a position that I am very C happy with at Purdue but know someone who is looking to fill a VMS  ' Systems Administrator position in Indy. I I can put you in touch with the hiring manager. The individual must have  & a good number of years experience with	 VMS 6-8+.    Thanks,    Chuck    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 11:28:04 +0100 % From: David Gray <police@spamcop.net>  Subject: Wireless handhelds 8 Message-ID: <h93be25bqa9646l07nj8l2ha80sn6isad3@4ax.com>      Hello all,     Alpha server ES45  OpenVMS 7.3-2  Powerhouse 710G1    D We are just starting to look at proof of concept that would allow usE to use wireless handheld devices with our VMS systems.  By handheld I > mean warehouse scanning units from manufactures such as Symbol% technologies running a VT emulator.     F I worked for a company 8 years ago who implemented a similar setup forA their warehouse with the handheld units connecting via telnet and F logging in directly to the VMS system, new screens were written to useF the small screen area.  Unfortunately I was not involved in any of the= hardware side of things so I'm not sure how that bit worked.    B Has anyone got a system such as this who could give me pointers onF what hardware I would need to buy in order to allow wireless access to= the VMS systems?  Any pitfalls or recommendations on hardware  manufactures.     = The warehouse is located at the same site as the VMS system.     Thanks in advance    Dave.             ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 13:04:29 +0100 % From: David Gray <police@spamcop.net>  Subject: Re: Wireless handhelds 8 Message-ID: <p3bbe2d7fr3anamdk21n6vil8v0ll34mqu@4ax.com>  ; Should add that I pretty nuch know what handhelds I need...   @ http://www.symbol.com/product.php?productID=855&tab=Data%20Sheet  - It seems they all have VT emulation anyway.     D Just not sure about what hardware is required for a wireless network that VMS can see.    Dave    C On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 11:28:04 +0100, David Gray <police@spamcop.net>  wrote:   >  >  >Hello all,  >  >Alpha server ES45   >OpenVMS 7.3-2   >Powerhouse 710G1  > E >We are just starting to look at proof of concept that would allow us F >to use wireless handheld devices with our VMS systems.  By handheld I? >mean warehouse scanning units from manufactures such as Symbol & >technologies running a VT emulator.   > G >I worked for a company 8 years ago who implemented a similar setup for B >their warehouse with the handheld units connecting via telnet andG >logging in directly to the VMS system, new screens were written to use G >the small screen area.  Unfortunately I was not involved in any of the > >hardware side of things so I'm not sure how that bit worked.  > C >Has anyone got a system such as this who could give me pointers on G >what hardware I would need to buy in order to allow wireless access to > >the VMS systems?  Any pitfalls or recommendations on hardware >manufactures.   > > >The warehouse is located at the same site as the VMS system.  >  >Thanks in advance >  >Dave. >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 08:50:55 -0400 , From: "Zehel, Samuel M" <smzehel@switch.com> Subject: RE: Wireless handhelds N Message-ID: <3D7A5969DC27E747A85F69D1AFF86495016BF75E@exchptc2.uss.switch.com>  D I used to work for a company that used wireless hand-held bar-code =I scanners to maintain their inventory. We used wireless Symbol hand held = F scanners, and in-house inventory software on an alpha server using a =+ Telnet login to record the ID and location.  =20 I It seemed to work pretty well.  I didn't get too involved with it after = H we switched from LXE scanners, but I know it worked pretty flawlessly, =H even in direct sunlight(The LXE's did not like direct sunlight).  As I =J remember, we had to get some extra access points with bigger antennas to =I overcome interference from the inventory itself, which contained larges =  amounts of metal.  =20 I The frequency of the wireless channel chosen seemed to have some effect =  on coverage. =20  --=20 ) Samuel M. Zehel Jnr.          Engineer=20 # Automation & Information Systems=20 . Union Switch & Signal Inc. (ANSALDO SIGNAL)=20D                       A Finmeccancia Company 1000 Technology Drive = Pittsburgh, PA 15219-3120=20 Ph.: 412-688-2856=20 Fax: 412-688-2552=20$ E-mail: smzehel(at)switch(dot)com=20I Life at its noblest leaves mere happiness far behind; and indeed cannot = H endure it.... Happiness is not the object of life: life has no object: =B it is an end in itself; and courage consists in the readiness to =3 sacrifice happiness for an intenser quality of life  -George Bernard Shaw=20     ________________________________  , From: David Gray [mailto:police@spamcop.net] Sent: Fri 8/18/2006 6:28 AM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  Subject: Wireless handhelds           
 Hello all,   Alpha server ES45 
 OpenVMS 7.3-2  Powerhouse 710G1  D We are just starting to look at proof of concept that would allow usE to use wireless handheld devices with our VMS systems.  By handheld I > mean warehouse scanning units from manufactures such as Symbol& technologies running a VT emulator.=20  F I worked for a company 8 years ago who implemented a similar setup forA their warehouse with the handheld units connecting via telnet and F logging in directly to the VMS system, new screens were written to useF the small screen area.  Unfortunately I was not involved in any of the< hardware side of things so I'm not sure how that bit worked.  B Has anyone got a system such as this who could give me pointers onF what hardware I would need to buy in order to allow wireless access to= the VMS systems?  Any pitfalls or recommendations on hardware  manufactures.=20  < The warehouse is located at the same site as the VMS system.   Thanks in advance    Dave.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 08:53:20 -0400 / From: "Hank Vander Waal" <hvanderw@comcast.net>  Subject: RE: Wireless handhelds 9 Message-ID: <012201c6c2c5$48a0c740$230101c0@altlcorp.com>   J Using Symbol's telnet client, their units can log onto any VMS system thatG supports telnet.  And other than programming for the smaller screen you I treat them like any other user.  Ours did not even have the windows OS on % them just the telnet client software.   I Be sure that the area you are using them in is well covered with Symbol's  Antennas.        -----Original Message------ From: David Gray [mailto:police@spamcop.net]  % Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 8:04 AM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  Subject: Re: Wireless handhelds     ; Should add that I pretty nuch know what handhelds I need...   @ http://www.symbol.com/product.php?productID=855&tab=Data%20Sheet  - It seems they all have VT emulation anyway.     D Just not sure about what hardware is required for a wireless network that VMS can see.    Dave    C On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 11:28:04 +0100, David Gray <police@spamcop.net>  wrote:   >  >  >Hello all,  >  >Alpha server ES45   >OpenVMS 7.3-2   >Powerhouse 710G1  > E >We are just starting to look at proof of concept that would allow us F >to use wireless handheld devices with our VMS systems.  By handheld I? >mean warehouse scanning units from manufactures such as Symbol & >technologies running a VT emulator.   > G >I worked for a company 8 years ago who implemented a similar setup for B >their warehouse with the handheld units connecting via telnet andG >logging in directly to the VMS system, new screens were written to use G >the small screen area.  Unfortunately I was not involved in any of the > >hardware side of things so I'm not sure how that bit worked.  > C >Has anyone got a system such as this who could give me pointers on G >what hardware I would need to buy in order to allow wireless access to > >the VMS systems?  Any pitfalls or recommendations on hardware >manufactures.   > > >The warehouse is located at the same site as the VMS system.  >  >Thanks in advance >  >Dave. >  >  >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Aug 2006 05:39:19 -0700 From: bob@instantwhip.com  Subject: Re: Wireless handhelds B Message-ID: <1155904759.483234.147380@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com>  4 you can save money by buying ipaqs and buying an app> to run on it, then just ftp the flat files to and from vms ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 15:46:13 +0100 % From: David Gray <police@spamcop.net>  Subject: Re: Wireless handhelds 8 Message-ID: <i5jbe2lntn95v8h669ibetqnufi996sk2q@4ax.com>   Hi all,   & Thanks to everyone who has responded.   F To expand a little more.  The warehouse is already covered by wireless> access points (WAP) for an existing network.  I would need twoC networks to run simultaneously but that is in the future.  What I'm D looking to achieve at the moment is a proof of concept, can a SymbolC or Psion or other such mobile computer/scanner communicate with VMS 4 and then run custom screens within a VT emulator.     E At present I have no WAPs that are connected to the same LAN that the D VMS server is on.  Is it just a case of adding an intelligent WAP inF securely and then TELNETing from a VT enabled device to the IP address of the server?      A For the duration of this test I would simply be running using the E wireless device in an office environment with no changes necessary in  the warehouse.    D I'm hoping that this will give a new lease of life to the VMS server: which at present has the Windows & Linux sharks circling.    Cheers Dave          C On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 11:28:04 +0100, David Gray <police@spamcop.net>  wrote:   >  >  >Hello all,  >  >Alpha server ES45   >OpenVMS 7.3-2   >Powerhouse 710G1  > E >We are just starting to look at proof of concept that would allow us F >to use wireless handheld devices with our VMS systems.  By handheld I? >mean warehouse scanning units from manufactures such as Symbol & >technologies running a VT emulator.   > G >I worked for a company 8 years ago who implemented a similar setup for B >their warehouse with the handheld units connecting via telnet andG >logging in directly to the VMS system, new screens were written to use G >the small screen area.  Unfortunately I was not involved in any of the > >hardware side of things so I'm not sure how that bit worked.  > C >Has anyone got a system such as this who could give me pointers on G >what hardware I would need to buy in order to allow wireless access to > >the VMS systems?  Any pitfalls or recommendations on hardware >manufactures.   > > >The warehouse is located at the same site as the VMS system.  >  >Thanks in advance >  >Dave. >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 11:08:15 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net>  Subject: Re: Wireless handhelds : Message-ID: <TuydnZts6PF8SnjZnZ2dnUVZ_omdnZ2d@comcast.com>   David Gray wrote:    >   
 > Hello all,   >  > Alpha server ES45  > OpenVMS 7.3-2  > Powerhouse 710G1   > F > We are just starting to look at proof of concept that would allow usG > to use wireless handheld devices with our VMS systems.  By handheld I @ > mean warehouse scanning units from manufactures such as Symbol' > technologies running a VT emulator.    > H > I worked for a company 8 years ago who implemented a similar setup forC > their warehouse with the handheld units connecting via telnet and H > logging in directly to the VMS system, new screens were written to useH > the small screen area.  Unfortunately I was not involved in any of the? > hardware side of things so I'm not sure how that bit worked.   > D > Has anyone got a system such as this who could give me pointers onH > what hardware I would need to buy in order to allow wireless access to? > the VMS systems?  Any pitfalls or recommendations on hardware  > manufactures.    > ? > The warehouse is located at the same site as the VMS system.   >  > Thanks in advance  >  > Dave.  >  >  >  >    >   > Talk to Hal Kuff <kuff@tessco.com>.  He is doing exactly that!  I You might also talk to Ed Lacorte <elacorte@rapidforms.com>.  RapidForms  D was in the process of implementing a wireless pick-n-pack system in B their warehouse.  ISTR they were using tablet PCs plus a standard E barcode gun but it was the same basic idea.  The biggest problem was  H setting up the wireless to get a good signal anywhere in the warehouse; I steel shelving tended to block the signals and careful placements of the     access points is required.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 16:12:15 +0100 % From: David Gray <police@spamcop.net>  Subject: Re: Wireless handhelds 8 Message-ID: <06mbe2li5t6qv2k2g3tftm6m189r5l3b3b@4ax.com>   Thanks I will.     Dave       > ? >Talk to Hal Kuff <kuff@tessco.com>.  He is doing exactly that!  > J >You might also talk to Ed Lacorte <elacorte@rapidforms.com>.  RapidForms E >was in the process of implementing a wireless pick-n-pack system in  C >their warehouse.  ISTR they were using tablet PCs plus a standard  F >barcode gun but it was the same basic idea.  The biggest problem was I >setting up the wireless to get a good signal anywhere in the warehouse;  J >steel shelving tended to block the signals and careful placements of the  >  access points is required.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 15:53:40 GMT , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com> Subject: Re: Wireless handhelds / Message-ID: <8olFg.170$2u5.17@news.cpqcorp.net>    David Gray wrote:   G > At present I have no WAPs that are connected to the same LAN that the F > VMS server is on.  Is it just a case of adding an intelligent WAP inH > securely and then TELNETing from a VT enabled device to the IP address > of the server?          Yes.   L    Realize that access points (APs) are not routers, so you're depending on Q connectivity though the AP and into a router somewhere behind the AP.  (For some  K tasks, the integrated routers are way easier.  For others, APs are easier.)   N    When it's all actually working (and particularly once you get the security N settings required by the APs or the wireless routers matched up with those of M the client) and you've established routing, wireless networks work just like  Q wire-line networking.  You can use IP protocols and applications such as telnet,  1 or (as you have APs) potentially other protocols.   N    The real "fun" with wireless is getting the settings lined up, and getting N the dead spots and the inevitable interference and such under control.  There O are days I'm surprised 802.11a/b/g/pre-n even works at all.  And you can never  H get it truly solid, particularly in any environment where a neighboring - organization can power up a wireless network.   P    But if you're not (also) managing the channel assignments and monitoring for K rogue or failed APs and routers or for security problems, all the better...   N    Various of the local folks were managing stuff from iPAQs using telnet and N web-enabled servers and clients -- the applications were operating via telnet O and via http.  One of the demos a while back was the use of the OpenVMS Galaxy  N configuration display from an iPAQ, and swapping CPUs around in the box while  walking around the show floor.  P    Put another way, 95 percent of what you are going to see and have to do here Q has nothing to do with OpenVMS.  OpenVMS is just another IP node on the local IP  Q network, and the real "fun" here is simply getting from the wireless client into  K the local network.  What host you connect into once you have established a  E working wireless connection -- an OpenVMS host or otherwise -- isn't  B particularly significant for the bulk of the effort involved here.  N    I'm operating subnets, APs and wireless and wired routers at a network I'm # managing, so I feel your pain.  :-)    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 16:04:41 +0000 (UTC)  From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: Wireless handhelds , Message-ID: <ec4oep$rm2$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>  ` In article <i5jbe2lntn95v8h669ibetqnufi996sk2q@4ax.com>, David Gray <police@spamcop.net> writes:	 >Hi all,   > ' >Thanks to everyone who has responded.   > G >To expand a little more.  The warehouse is already covered by wireless ? >access points (WAP) for an existing network.  I would need two D >networks to run simultaneously but that is in the future.  What I'mE >looking to achieve at the moment is a proof of concept, can a Symbol D >or Psion or other such mobile computer/scanner communicate with VMS5 >and then run custom screens within a VT emulator.     > F >At present I have no WAPs that are connected to the same LAN that theE >VMS server is on.  Is it just a case of adding an intelligent WAP in G >securely and then TELNETing from a VT enabled device to the IP address  >of the server?    >   M The wireless access points just provide you with an IP address and connection K onto a wired network segment. If from a connection on that network segment  K you can connect using say telnet to the VMS box then you should be able to  M connect via the WAP to the VMS system. If the network segment which the WAPs  N are connected to is physically separate from the network the VMS system is on % then you will not be able to connect. M If it is logically separated by a Firewall then you will need to allow access ' through the firewall to the VMS system.   N As far as connectivity is concerned connecting your handheld through a WAP is K no different than using a cable to plug your handheld into a switch on the   same Lan-segment as the WAP.  L If the existing WAPs belong to the same organisation then arranging to allowM connections through to the VMS system should not be a problem. If they belong F to a different organisation then there may well be political problems.M In that case you may have to setup a wired infrastructure from the warehouse  N back to the VMS system and arrange for your own WAPs to be installed and have M discussions about which channels you can use so as not to interfere with the  $ other organisation's wireless setup.    
 David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University    B >For the duration of this test I would simply be running using theF >wireless device in an office environment with no changes necessary in >the warehouse.  > E >I'm hoping that this will give a new lease of life to the VMS server ; >which at present has the Windows & Linux sharks circling.   >  >Cheers  >Dave  >  >  >  > D >On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 11:28:04 +0100, David Gray <police@spamcop.net> >wrote:  >  >> >>  
 >>Hello all,   >> >>Alpha server ES45  >>OpenVMS 7.3-2  >>Powerhouse 710G1   >>F >>We are just starting to look at proof of concept that would allow usG >>to use wireless handheld devices with our VMS systems.  By handheld I @ >>mean warehouse scanning units from manufactures such as Symbol' >>technologies running a VT emulator.    >>H >>I worked for a company 8 years ago who implemented a similar setup forC >>their warehouse with the handheld units connecting via telnet and H >>logging in directly to the VMS system, new screens were written to useH >>the small screen area.  Unfortunately I was not involved in any of the? >>hardware side of things so I'm not sure how that bit worked.   >>D >>Has anyone got a system such as this who could give me pointers onH >>what hardware I would need to buy in order to allow wireless access to? >>the VMS systems?  Any pitfalls or recommendations on hardware  >>manufactures.    >>? >>The warehouse is located at the same site as the VMS system.   >> >>Thanks in advance  >> >>Dave.  >> >> >> >>     ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 18:05:41 +0100 % From: David Gray <police@spamcop.net>  Subject: Re: Wireless handhelds 8 Message-ID: <igsbe2p8kf4fvvtishqoldeng0j14899an@4ax.com>  B That's great!  I might even be able to use the existing APs in theD warehouse as they allow telnet from within an IP range.   Connection5 is great as all the blackspots have been ironed out.     Thanks   Dave          . On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 15:53:40 GMT, Hoff Hoffman  <hoff-remove-this@hp.com> wrote:   >David Gray wrote: > H >> At present I have no WAPs that are connected to the same LAN that theG >> VMS server is on.  Is it just a case of adding an intelligent WAP in I >> securely and then TELNETing from a VT enabled device to the IP address  >> of the server?    >  >   Yes. > M >   Realize that access points (APs) are not routers, so you're depending on  R >connectivity though the AP and into a router somewhere behind the AP.  (For some L >tasks, the integrated routers are way easier.  For others, APs are easier.) > O >   When it's all actually working (and particularly once you get the security  O >settings required by the APs or the wireless routers matched up with those of  N >the client) and you've established routing, wireless networks work just like R >wire-line networking.  You can use IP protocols and applications such as telnet, 2 >or (as you have APs) potentially other protocols. > O >   The real "fun" with wireless is getting the settings lined up, and getting  O >the dead spots and the inevitable interference and such under control.  There  P >are days I'm surprised 802.11a/b/g/pre-n even works at all.  And you can never I >get it truly solid, particularly in any environment where a neighboring  . >organization can power up a wireless network. > Q >   But if you're not (also) managing the channel assignments and monitoring for  L >rogue or failed APs and routers or for security problems, all the better... > O >   Various of the local folks were managing stuff from iPAQs using telnet and  O >web-enabled servers and clients -- the applications were operating via telnet  P >and via http.  One of the demos a while back was the use of the OpenVMS Galaxy O >configuration display from an iPAQ, and swapping CPUs around in the box while   >walking around the show floor.  > Q >   Put another way, 95 percent of what you are going to see and have to do here  R >has nothing to do with OpenVMS.  OpenVMS is just another IP node on the local IP R >network, and the real "fun" here is simply getting from the wireless client into L >the local network.  What host you connect into once you have established a F >working wireless connection -- an OpenVMS host or otherwise -- isn't C >particularly significant for the bulk of the effort involved here.  > O >   I'm operating subnets, APs and wireless and wired routers at a network I'm  $ >managing, so I feel your pain.  :-) >  >  >  >  >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 17:40:30 GMT , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com> Subject: Re: Wireless handhelds / Message-ID: <iYmFg.180$yC5.82@news.cpqcorp.net>    David Gray wrote: D > That's great!  I might even be able to use the existing APs in theF > warehouse as they allow telnet from within an IP range.   Connection7 > is great as all the blackspots have been ironed out.    $    APs don't have IP address ranges.  :    APs are assigned an IP address for management purposes.  Q    APs are intended to be transparent connections into a network.  Logically, an  O AP is an invisible cable from your PC to the host, and intended to be about as   IP transparent as that cable.   Q    APs can watch for WPA or WAP or any of various other authentication protocols  O as part of authorizing the connection (as part of unlocking the network socket  Q that the invisible network cable plugs into, to follow the earlier analogy), and  K can often be set to filter on station MAC address, but the client wireless  C stations don't necessarily have or need IP addresses at this point.   M    Once the authentication is completed and the client is connected into the  Q network, then the client needs and uses an IP address (and one either hard-wired  O into the client, assigned from the generic Class C pool, or assigned by a DHCP  O server that's built into the AP or is located on a server somewhere behind the  K AP) and that IP address can then be used as part of connectivity tests and   firewall rules and such.  N    APs can have multiple capabilities -- authentication, DHCP, MAC filtering, O etc -- and it's best to mentally consider and mentially separate the functions  Q as you configure a wireless network.  Wireless routers are a bit easier than APs  O in general, as -- by definition -- APs don't have protocol routers, and depend  $ on a router somewhere behind the AP.  J    (And that said, I have seen and have worked with wireless devices that K provide both routing and AP capabilities, so this whole area can be rather  P murky.  And there are mid- to upper-end packages which are quite sophisticated, M and that can provide integrated management of forests of APs and routers and  6 authentication and users and rogue AP sniffing and...)  P    And yes, some network device located behind the AP may well filter on ranges J of IP addresses, and some APs can tie wireless connectivity to client MAC N addresses, and DHCP servers can allocate and assign IP addresses based on MAC O address.  But a pure AP device is analogous to a switch or a LANbridge device,  N though one with invisible network cabling.  APs don't know from IP traffic or  other network protocols.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.459 ************************