1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 19 Aug 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 460       Contents: Re: Extended File Cache  Re: Extended File Cache < Re: How do you "collect a few PC samples" from a hung system Re: Ken Olsen VAX ) Re: Local mail server using modem dialout ! Re: Open Source Hardware? (SPARC)  Re: Samba v3.0.10 on IA64  Re: Shadow set problem% Re: The race for 8086 servers is on ! % Re: The race for 8086 servers is on !  Re: Wireless handhelds Re: Wireless handhelds Re: Wireless handhelds Re: Wireless handhelds Re: Wireless handhelds Re: Wireless handhelds Re: Wireless handhelds Re: Wireless handhelds Re: Wireless handhelds  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 18 Aug 2006 16:01:26 -0700" From: "Jose Baars" <peut@peut.org>  Subject: Re: Extended File CacheC Message-ID: <1155942086.768378.194800@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>   @ When we upgraded to VMS 7.3-2, we immediately turned XFC on, and noticed thatD our nightly batch processing only took two thirds of the time it did when using VIOC.  D During the daytime, we have a 92% hitrate on all reads, our disks go
 out for lunch 4 every day, but the memory is starting to complain...   Kids...    Go for it, I would say.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 19:42:23 -0400 ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>   Subject: Re: Extended File Cache< Message-ID: <44e64f19$0$24190$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com>  . "Jose Baars" <peut@peut.org> wrote in message = news:1155942086.768378.194800@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...  > B > When we upgraded to VMS 7.3-2, we immediately turned XFC on, and > noticed thatF > our nightly batch processing only took two thirds of the time it did > when using VIOC. > F > During the daytime, we have a 92% hitrate on all reads, our disks go > out for lunch 6 > every day, but the memory is starting to complain... > 	 > Kids...  >  > Go for it, I would say.  > M The XFC induced speedup on our AS-DS20e was so dramatic that we used this as  K a reason to purchase a second 1 GB of RAM. Then we did it one more time to   end up with 3 GB.   
 Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,  Ontario, Canada.8 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html: http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/openvms_demos.html    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 20:42:36 GMT 1 From: Keith Parris <keithparris_NOSPAM@yahoo.com> E Subject: Re: How do you "collect a few PC samples" from a hung system / Message-ID: <0DpFg.194$UG5.58@news.cpqcorp.net>   
 AEF wrote:' > I have a hung MicroVAX 3100 Model 95.   > Another tool which can be very handy when a system is hung is F Availability Manager (or the older DECamds). It can allow you to poke I around inside a hung system and see what's going on, even when you can't   log in.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 15:07:48 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: Ken Olsen VAX, Message-ID: <44E60FFE.8D36E40F@teksavvy.com>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:  >  > etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk wrote: , > > Yes, and our thanks as well please Hoff. > ? >    Haven't heard anything back on the offer to visit Maynard.  > F >    If the opportunity presents itself, I will pass along the thanks.  K And mention that there are a couple of Hobbyists who still run ALL-IN-1 :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 14:53:36 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 2 Subject: Re: Local mail server using modem dialout, Message-ID: <44E60CAE.F460491D@teksavvy.com>   Chrissie wrote: 4 > - Outgoing mail is to be spooled for one smarthostH > - Automatic dialout every 60 mins, then sending all mails to smarthost > using SMTP-AUTH! > - Fetching POP3 accounts > - Hanging up    G When I was on CMU-IP,  Mr Moeller had provided me with a PPP module for A it, and I had made a slilght modification to it for easy control. @ basically, an aplication would send a message to a process via aG mailbox. The process would check if a PPP connection was already up, if E so, immediatly return an OK message so application could proceed with F TCPIP activity, and if not, the process would spawn a detached processG that initiated the PPP connection and once done, created on the fly the 6 configuration file for CMU and then started the stack.  H When an application was done with TCPIP, it would send a message to thatE process indicating so, and within a minute or two later, that process > would wind down the TCPIP stack and close the PPP connection.   C Not pretty but it worked. But it also required that applications be A written to send those control messages and wait for the response.   H In terms of fetching POP3 accounts, if you have a TCPIP connection, lookG for my POPTOMAIL at http://www.vaxination.ca/vms , it can be configured F to scan at some extremely large interval (aka: never) and then you canE send a control message to its mailbox to initiate a scan of mailboxes  (after which it goes to sleep).    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 14:38:13 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> * Subject: Re: Open Source Hardware? (SPARC), Message-ID: <44E60914.966EF5BE@teksavvy.com>   Ian Miller wrote: C > I think releasing this is more of a PR excersise. Some people who C > interested in CPU design will find it interesting andit may be of B > interest to kernel or complier developers but can most people do > anything with this info.  ? When someone goes to electrical engineering school, guess which J architecture they are more likely to study now that Sparc is open source ?  F Looks to me like a nice strategic thing to get universities interestedN in SPARC and produce electrical engineers alrteady with experience with Sparc.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 21:24:45 GMT 7 From: John Malmberg <malmberg@dskwld.zko.hp.compaq.dec> " Subject: Re: Samba v3.0.10 on IA64. Message-ID: <xeqFg.199$lI5.1@news.cpqcorp.net>  
 Ade wrote: > Hi,  > L > I am trying to evaluate the current Samba release 3.0.10 on an RX2600 Vms ) > v8.2 and have the following problems...  > G > 1) every text file seems to be translated to stream_lf regardless of   > direction to or from a pc.  E The Evaluation Release of CIFS was the SAMBA 3.0.10 with the minimum  B number of VMS specific changes to get it to build and serve files.  I Support of non-stream files is one of the check items for the production   release.  N > 2) smbstatus stackdumps when a connection is made. (apologies if this isn't  > formatted correcty)   H That is a known bug.  An updated Evaluation Release is being tested now  that fixes this.  " HP is sorry for the inconvenience.    9 Questions and feedback about OpenVMS CIFS can be sent to   OpenVMSCIFS@hp.compaq.dec.  E Please remove the obvious extra characters from the e-mail addresses.    -John ! malmberg@dskwld.zko.hp.compaq.dec  Personal Opinion Only    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 09:11:48 -0400  From: "Jilly" <jilly@hp.com> Subject: Re: Shadow set problem * Message-ID: <44e5bc95@usenet01.boi.hp.com>  6 "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos-remove.com> wrote in message # news:op.tefudgmvtte90l@hyrrokkin... F On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 10:11:20 -0700, Tom Linden <tom@kednos-remove.com> wrote:  G > On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 09:24:21 -0700, <briggs@encompasserve.org> wrote:  > : >> In article <op.tefnj9cvtte90l@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" " >> <tom@kednos-remove.com> writes:2 >>> $42$DKA1200:  (HAFNER)  Online               1E >>> $42$DKA1300:  (HAFNER)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA0:)  >>>  >>> So I have two questions  >>> G >>> 1.  To add the member back in, is it the same command that I use at  >>> startup, viz., >>> $     MOUNT L >>> DSA0:/CLUSTER/NOASSIST/INCLUDE/NOCOPY/SHADOW=($42$DKA1200:,$42$DKA1300:)
 >>> COMMON >>) >> You do not want the /NOCOPY qualifier.  >>G >> When you mount the new member, you want it to be brought up to date. F >> If you use /NOCOPY and an a copy operation is required to bring theG >> new member up to date, VMS will simply refuse to add the new member.  >>H >> You may want the /CONFIRM qualifier instead.  If a copy operation is 
 >> needed,G >> /CONFIRM will give you a chance to verify that it involves the disks E >> you expect in the direction you expect and answer yes or no before " >> the copy is actually initiated. >> >> You may not want /INCLUDE >>F >> The effect of /INCLUDE is to automatically include the members thatB >> were previously in the shadow set.  But you're already manuallyF >> specifying them.  So /INCLUDE is redundant (but probably won't hurt
 >> anything).  >>I >> Other than that, yes.  The command you give is fine.  And even without @ >> my suggested changes, executing it won't do anything harmful. >>7 >>> 2.  How do I determine why it is no longer mounted?  >>G >> Look at the operator log: sys$manager:operator.log and possibly the   >> error >> log.  >  > HAFNER> MOUNT J > DSA0:/CLUSTER/NOASSIST/INCLUDE/SHADOW=($42$DKA1200:,$42$DKA1300:) COMMON, > %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, COMMON mounted on _DSA0:I > %MOUNT-I-SHDWMEMFAIL, _$42$DKA1200: (HAFNER) failed as a member of the   > shadow set% > -SYSTEM-F-MEDOFL, medium is offline G > %MOUNT-I-ISAMBR, _$42$DKA1300: (HAFNER) is a member of the shadow set  > * > Didn't see anything in the operator.log. >  > Maybe I'll try a spare drive   Bingo!  
 HAFNER> MOUNT H DSA0:/CLUSTER/NOASSIST/INCLUDE/SHADOW=($42$DKA1200:,$42$DKA1300:) COMMON* %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, COMMON mounted on _DSA0:I %MOUNT-I-SHDWMEMCOPY, _$42$DKA1200: (HAFNER) added to the shadow set with  a copy operationE %MOUNT-I-ISAMBR, _$42$DKA1300: (HAFNER) is a member of the shadow set      --  E Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/   K I'd say then that $42$DKA1200 is not working properly and you need to look  ! at the hardware behind the drive.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 14:22:39 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> . Subject: Re: The race for 8086 servers is on !, Message-ID: <44E6056F.DCF6E6CA@teksavvy.com>   Dave Froble wrote:6 > Linux, a free OS, generates it's own revenue stream. > F > Several Operating Systems that HP owns and receives license fees are > just to sell hardware. > B > Somebody needs some classes in logic, and I don't think it's me.    C It is actually simple. The Wall Street Casino Analysts measure HP's G performance uniquely on its shipment of 8086 product lines which can be @ compared against Dell (aka: market share in wintel market). TheyA automatically associate increase in PC shipments with increase in F profits, even though an increase in profits may not be due to increaseA in PC shipments (aka: profits come from selling coloured water at  exhorbitant prices).      H And it is because HP is measured in 8086 system shipments that VMS wouldH greatly benefit from being ported to that architecture since any sale ofF a VMS system on an 8086 would then contribute to HP's rankings againstG Dell and HP would have every incentive to market VMS along with Windows 
 and Linux.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 15:06:59 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> . Subject: Re: The race for 8086 servers is on !, Message-ID: <44E60FCE.CDC8F691@teksavvy.com>   etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk wrote: G > Digital had a large software portfolio and the software sold the kit.   E > Business models are different these days.  You buy a word processor E > from a third party.  The database may come from CA or Oracle.  This A > leaves the hardware and the O/S for companies like Sun, HP etc.     ? This doesn't represent the total reality. Look at Apple. It has - redeveloppped its own ecosystem of software.  H Tandem (before Compaq bought it) had purchased many small ISVs to ensureE their survival because their apps were critical to the NSK ecosystem.   C And when you look at Microsoft, it most certaintly has its own full D suite of software (most purchased from small companies over time) to fill every imaginable gap.  F HP never really had such a big ecosystem of its own. HP was a hardware2 company. (scientific instruments, calculators etc)  E And of of the big reasons DEC was way ahead of HP was SOFTWARE. Heck, G even the DECUS LIBRARY was a huge asset that helped DEC make many sales 9 because it outlines just how much software was available.   @ And DEC had RBD before Oracle was an important software company.  F When you look at the sale of RDB to Oracle, the argument had been madeH that it would make DEC "neutral" and foster more databse vendors to portH to VMS. In the end, even Oracle didn't port its applications back to VMS5 and in the end, it didn't bring any advantage to VMS.   B In the end, what bring an advantage to an OS, what brings OS isn'tF politics, but it is market potential. Oracle would have ported all itsG apps to VMS despite RDB belonging to DEC if there had been a big market  for it.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 11:00:59 -0700 * From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos-remove.com> Subject: Re: Wireless handhelds ) Message-ID: <op.tehqzxqctte90l@hyrrokkin>   E On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 09:04:41 -0700, <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote:   G > In article <i5jbe2lntn95v8h669ibetqnufi996sk2q@4ax.com>, David Gray    > <police@spamcop.net> writes:
 >> Hi all, >>( >> Thanks to everyone who has responded. >>I >> To expand a little more.  The warehouse is already covered by wireless A >> access points (WAP) for an existing network.  I would need two F >> networks to run simultaneously but that is in the future.  What I'mG >> looking to achieve at the moment is a proof of concept, can a Symbol F >> or Psion or other such mobile computer/scanner communicate with VMS4 >> and then run custom screens within a VT emulator. >>H >> At present I have no WAPs that are connected to the same LAN that theG >> VMS server is on.  Is it just a case of adding an intelligent WAP in I >> securely and then TELNETing from a VT enabled device to the IP address  >> of the server?  >> > F > The wireless access points just provide you with an IP address and   > connectionF > onto a wired network segment. If from a connection on that network  	 > segment K > you can connect using say telnet to the VMS box then you should be able    > toK > connect via the WAP to the VMS system. If the network segment which the    > WAPsK > are connected to is physically separate from the network the VMS system    > is on ' > then you will not be able to connect. J > If it is logically separated by a Firewall then you will need to allow   > access) > through the firewall to the VMS system.  > J > As far as connectivity is concerned connecting your handheld through a   > WAP isJ > no different than using a cable to plug your handheld into a switch on   > the  > same Lan-segment as the WAP. > J > If the existing WAPs belong to the same organisation then arranging to   > allow J > connections through to the VMS system should not be a problem. If they   > belongH > to a different organisation then there may well be political problems.F > In that case you may have to setup a wired infrastructure from the   > warehouse L > back to the VMS system and arrange for your own WAPs to be installed and   > haveL > discussions about which channels you can use so as not to interfere with   > the & > other organisation's wireless setup.  G Can't SSH be used and if so wouldn't that alleviate some of thesecurity 	 concerns?    >  >  > David Webb > Security team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University >  > D >> For the duration of this test I would simply be running using theH >> wireless device in an office environment with no changes necessary in >> the warehouse.  >>G >> I'm hoping that this will give a new lease of life to the VMS server < >> which at present has the Windows & Linux sharks circling. >>	 >> Cheers  >> Dave  >> >> >> >>F >> On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 11:28:04 +0100, David Gray <police@spamcop.net>	 >> wrote:  >> >>>  >>>  >>> Hello all, >>>  >>> Alpha server ES45  >>> OpenVMS 7.3-2  >>> Powerhouse 710G1 >>> H >>> We are just starting to look at proof of concept that would allow usI >>> to use wireless handheld devices with our VMS systems.  By handheld I B >>> mean warehouse scanning units from manufactures such as Symbol' >>> technologies running a VT emulator.  >>> J >>> I worked for a company 8 years ago who implemented a similar setup forE >>> their warehouse with the handheld units connecting via telnet and J >>> logging in directly to the VMS system, new screens were written to useJ >>> the small screen area.  Unfortunately I was not involved in any of the@ >>> hardware side of things so I'm not sure how that bit worked. >>> F >>> Has anyone got a system such as this who could give me pointers onJ >>> what hardware I would need to buy in order to allow wireless access toA >>> the VMS systems?  Any pitfalls or recommendations on hardware  >>> manufactures.  >>> @ >>> The warehouse is located at the same site as the VMS system. >>>  >>> Thanks in advance  >>> 	 >>> Dave.  >>>  >>>  >>>  >>>        --  E Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Aug 2006 11:08:38 -0700- From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net>  Subject: Re: Wireless handhelds B Message-ID: <1155924518.357237.320180@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   David Gray wrote:  > Thanks I will. >  > Dave >  >  > > A > >Talk to Hal Kuff <kuff@tessco.com>.  He is doing exactly that!  > > K > >You might also talk to Ed Lacorte <elacorte@rapidforms.com>.  RapidForms F > >was in the process of implementing a wireless pick-n-pack system inD > >their warehouse.  ISTR they were using tablet PCs plus a standard. > >barcode gun but it was the same basic idea.  G Unless the tablet PC was mounted on a fork-lift or stationary, that's a 4 bad idea. Been there, done that years ago; bad idea.   > > The biggest problem was J > >setting up the wireless to get a good signal anywhere in the warehouse;K > >steel shelving tended to block the signals and careful placements of the  > >  access points is required.   D All this really isn't as hard as you think, David. You might as wellG ask: "can an application running on OpenVMS communicate via TELNET with F a VT terminal that has a small screen?" (btw, some of the VT emulators@ accept full-screen input (80 x 24) but display a smaller area byC panning around the larger screen. Usually they're "smart" enough to 1 recognize the cursor & always display that area.)   D The type of wired or wireless connection is not relevant. You either? get a good wired or wireless connection or you don't. There are G companies that specialize in setting up network infrastructures, or you A can do it yourself using common sense. It really isn't that hard.   = You have access points installed, you say? Just make sure the C hand-helds you buy are compatible. Setup the TELNET host IP and the F emulator should connect. Make the login as secure as you need, and useF whatever scripting capability your emulator has to simplify the login.  D We do this, and have done this for years, at more than one location.D The application design is very important. Proper prompting & minimalF keystroke requirement works best. Your hand-held will (should) have anA option to send termination (CR, LF, CR/LF) after the barcode, and ? you'll want a barcoded sheet for your menu that an operator can 1 optionally scan (instead of keying something in).   D Think: Single Handed Operation. If the device requires two hands, itB won't be efficient to use. Requirements for a fork-lift driver areE different than for a walking person. Could you use a mounted terminal C with plug-in scanner on the fork-lift? How will he carry a handheld E terminal? If your fork-lift driver is using it to pick & store parts, G consider scanning distance. Will he need to get on and off the truck to  scan the location?  F AFA the type of hand-held terminal to use: Symbol has a number of goodD choices for warehouse applications (read: tough use). There are many others.   F Ipaq, PDA, tablet PCs and other such toys do not belong in a warehouseC or shop environment except as might be used by a manager. An office @ environment, sure, except what bar-codes are you scanning in theB office? Is the device likely to be dropped? Better get a couple ofG backup Ipaq's, then. Do you need mobility or can a simple wedge scanner ! be connected to a PC or terminal?   E Packing/shipping and many other barcode applications might not need a E hand-held terminal; just a wireless scanner connected as a wedge to a  workstation PC.   C In short, you consider the need and design accordingly. Wireless or  wired, doesn't matter.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 14:58:48 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: Wireless handhelds , Message-ID: <44E60DE5.387C7864@teksavvy.com>   David Gray wrote: F > Just not sure about what hardware is required for a wireless network > that VMS can see.   H Your wireless network will have some sort of router that connects to theH same lan as your VMS box. To VMS, it will appear to be TCPIP connectionsD coming from some place via that router and VMS need not be concernedC about how the packets got to it. You will need to teach VMS about a @ route via that router to the IP block assigned to those devices.  F What you need to find out is whether your wireless hardware wants someH Radius server for authenticating individual users (there is a version ofF a radius server available on VMS, checked the archives and you'll findB the email address of the chap in russia who has it), or wether the@ authentication is done purely within the wireless hardware side.  F (authentication being the actual wireless stuff, not the access to the VMS system).   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 15:14:01 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: Wireless handhelds , Message-ID: <44E61174.35614AC0@teksavvy.com>   David Gray wrote: F > VMS server is on.  Is it just a case of adding an intelligent WAP inH > securely and then TELNETing from a VT enabled device to the IP address > of the server?  H On the surface, yes. However, when you dig for details, you need to lookM at TCPIP connectivity between your VMS system and the wireless "land" router.   E In other words, if your handleld is given the IP address 10.23.45.67, B and your VMS system has 10.0.45.67 you need to ensure that the VMSD system routes 10.23.*.* to that wireless router (or to a router that+ knows how to reach that wireless router).     G This means that the subnet assigned to VMS must be set properly so that H VMS knows that it must pass any packest for the wireless devices to some7 router instead of expecting them to be on the same lan.     H From the user point of view, it depends on hwo good the VT emulator is. H VMS (in SYLOGIN.COM) normally issues a SET TERMINAL/INQUIRE at login andF this will "poke" the terminal to try to find its screen size, but manyE terminal emulators may not work well with those protocols. So you may G end up having to do SET TERM/WIDTH=xx/PAGE=yy to define its screen size H somewhere in the login process for those devices (or when they start theA application) to let VMS do much of the screen management for you.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 15:25:23 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: Wireless handhelds , Message-ID: <44E6141D.245EDF6F@teksavvy.com>   Doug Phillips wrote:F > Think: Single Handed Operation. If the device requires two hands, it > won't be efficient to use.    E Actually, for a gun with scanner, that is correct. But for any device F that requires human input, you will need 2 hands, unless you have some0 sort of hoslter that holds the device for you...  C the companies that specialise in such devices are very aware of the R human interface issues. (asn well as ruggedness of wharehouse/store environments).  D When PSION folded, it took its money it got from its investment intoG Symbian and purchased a small canadian company called Teklogix. You can F see some of their products at http://www.teklogix.com  and you'll findF that they do have some usable tablets. They are not the "tradictional"D tablet you'd see Bill gates with at some conference, there are small0 postcard size units with touch screen interface.  F Obviously, if you intend to use telnet, you need some keyboard device.  H > Ipaq, PDA, tablet PCs and other such toys do not belong in a warehouse; > or shop environment except as might be used by a manager.   6 Correct. But aren't there ruggedized Ipaqs available ?   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Aug 2006 14:19:18 -0700- From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net>  Subject: Re: Wireless handhelds B Message-ID: <1155935958.449776.18150@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Doug Phillips wrote:H > > Think: Single Handed Operation. If the device requires two hands, it > > won't be efficient to use. >  > G > Actually, for a gun with scanner, that is correct. But for any device H > that requires human input, you will need 2 hands, unless you have some2 > sort of hoslter that holds the device for you... >   E Actually, not. Consider a cell phone, or a PDA shaped device. Look at G some of the Symbol MC & PDT hand-helds (the ones without a pistol grip. B You can hold the device in one hand and all keys and functions areC accessable to your thumb. The scan buttons are on each side and can F also be thumbed. If the application is designed to need keyboard inputD for mobile operations, other than thumbing a funtion key, then it is not properly designed.  E The "function menu" should place the device into the proper scan mode A where it simply prompts the operator to, i.e.: scan item id. scan B location. etc. If the item is not a previously defined lot, then a@ quantity might be needed, but normally quantity has already been determined.   F A fixed-station or fork-lift application should have function barcodes@ printed on a sheet and mounted so that the operator can scan theF function and not need to key anything. Fixed or mounted devices can be? larger if needed. Keyboarding normally won't be done during the G pick/store work, though, but maybe lighting conditions require a bigger  screen.   E > the companies that specialise in such devices are very aware of the T > human interface issues. (asn well as ruggedness of wharehouse/store environments). > F > When PSION folded, it took its money it got from its investment intoI > Symbian and purchased a small canadian company called Teklogix. You can H > see some of their products at http://www.teklogix.com  and you'll findH > that they do have some usable tablets. They are not the "tradictional"F > tablet you'd see Bill gates with at some conference, there are small2 > postcard size units with touch screen interface. > H > Obviously, if you intend to use telnet, you need some keyboard device. >   F Or an application designed to do what it needs to do without extensive keyboarding.  J > > Ipaq, PDA, tablet PCs and other such toys do not belong in a warehouse= > > or shop environment except as might be used by a manager.  > 8 > Correct. But aren't there ruggedized Ipaqs available ?  F Unless you've actually tried to use one to do warehouse work, you have@ no idea how bad that idea is. If you want a warehouse / locationF tracking system that doesn't work, just give the people a tool that is difficult to use.   D In some applications they are appropriate, but I've found its always, best to buy the tool that best fits the job.  F We just replaced a Symbol wireless wedge scanner that was over 7 yearsD old: not because the scanner went bad, but because the DEC-PC it was@ connected to finally died and got replaced, the new PC had a USBE keyboard, there wasn't a USB option for the old base-station, and the G user didn't want a PS-2 keyboard because he liked the new one. Then, we G discoverd that a pin on the PS-2 wedge module cable got broken off when E they tried to install it anyway, so they trained the gun to work with + another base-station and now it's a backup.   F The Symbol PDT-6140 was what we chose for applications like that beingC discussed here. Some of those have been in operation for at least 7 C years, too. How many Ipaqs or PDAs do you figure you'd go though in 
 that time?  D Isn't total cost of ownership something we VMSers understand? Or, is6 the initial purchase price still the only gage we use?  F So, for those who can only learn by their own experience, go ahead andA buy whatever you want. I would recommend going out to the shop or C warehouse and following the people around who do the work until you ) understand what they actually do, though.    ------------------------------    Date: 18 Aug 2006 14:30:24 -0700- From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net>  Subject: Re: Wireless handhelds C Message-ID: <1155936624.546567.132230@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Doug Phillips wrote:H > > Think: Single Handed Operation. If the device requires two hands, it > > won't be efficient to use.  F > When PSION folded, it took its money it got from its investment intoI > Symbian and purchased a small canadian company called Teklogix. You can H > see some of their products at http://www.teklogix.com  and you'll findH > that they do have some usable tablets. They are not the "tradictional"F > tablet you'd see Bill gates with at some conference, there are small2 > postcard size units with touch screen interface.  D Sorry, I meant to add that there are companies other than Symbol whoE make appropriate devices, and teklogics might be one of them. Not the G tablet or touchscreen things though. VT emulation is important for easy F interactive communication, and I don't know that everyone offers that. If so, then fine.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 20:20:58 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net>  Subject: Re: Wireless handhelds : Message-ID: <VP6dncyGsfP2xHvZnZ2dnUVZ_sadnZ2d@comcast.com>   Doug Phillips wrote: > David Gray wrote:  >  >>Thanks I will. >> >>Dave >> >> >>A >>>Talk to Hal Kuff <kuff@tessco.com>.  He is doing exactly that!  >>> K >>>You might also talk to Ed Lacorte <elacorte@rapidforms.com>.  RapidForms F >>>was in the process of implementing a wireless pick-n-pack system inD >>>their warehouse.  ISTR they were using tablet PCs plus a standard. >>>barcode gun but it was the same basic idea. >  > I > Unless the tablet PC was mounted on a fork-lift or stationary, that's a 6 > bad idea. Been there, done that years ago; bad idea. > E The tablet PCs were mounted on forklifts.  These were forklifts that  H allowed the operator to get stuff off shelves that might be thirty feet  off the ground!!  H There were also walk-arounds that were not bolted to anything.  I don't + know how those worked out in the long term.  <snip>   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Aug 2006 01:22:07 GMT( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Wireless handhelds + Message-ID: <4kn7dvFct7rhU1@individual.net>   B In article <1155924518.357237.320180@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,0 	"Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> writes: > F > All this really isn't as hard as you think, David. You might as wellI > ask: "can an application running on OpenVMS communicate via TELNET with * > a VT terminal that has a small screen?"   H Actually, it is a bit more complicated than that.  You also need to knowF if the telnet session will survive when the hand-held moves from AP toH AP as you move about the warehouse.  Most connectionless functions (likeD using a web browser) will do this, but connection oriented protocolsH may not survive the transition.  Especially if you are looking at things$ like WPA without the pre-shared key.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.460 ************************                                                                                                                                                                                                                                