1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 24 Aug 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 470       Contents:4 %MOUNT-W-INCONSTRUCT, inconsistent VMS error message8 Re: %MOUNT-W-INCONSTRUCT, inconsistent VMS error message8 Re: %MOUNT-W-INCONSTRUCT, inconsistent VMS error message8 Re: %MOUNT-W-INCONSTRUCT, inconsistent VMS error message1 A true pre-emptive multi-tasking operating system 5 Re: A true pre-emptive multi-tasking operating system 5 Re: A true pre-emptive multi-tasking operating system 5 Re: A true pre-emptive multi-tasking operating system % Re: ANN: DynDNS update client for VMS  Re: Datatrieve/CDD protection + Re: Dell Powervault 120T autoloader on VMS?  Re: Dibol programmers # Infoserver 1000 working tape drives ' Re: Infoserver 1000 working tape drives ' Re: Infoserver 1000 working tape drives # Re: KZPBA-CB and PWS 433au problems  LBR$OPEN Re: LBR$OPEN Re: LBR$OPEN+ Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS + Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS + Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS + Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS + Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS + Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS + Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS + Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS + Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS + Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS + Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS + RE: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS + Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS + Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS + Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS + Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS + Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS + Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS + Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS + Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS + Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS + Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS + RE: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS + RE: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS + RE: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS A Re: openvms - java - timezone - daylight savings - what the heck!  Patches and VMS  RE: Patches and VMS $ Re: Printing to a HP LaserJet 2605dn
 WWENG2.SYS  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2006 13:33:51 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) = Subject: %MOUNT-W-INCONSTRUCT, inconsistent VMS error message 3 Message-ID: <nfXXS+1X4in1@eisner.encompasserve.org>   E I have an "interesting situation" with two disks, each of which gets:        $ MOUNT _$43$DKA1200 ABCL     %MOUNT-W-INCONSTRUCT, inconsistent file structure level on _$43$DKA1200:B     -MOUNT-I-DOSETVOL, Use SET VOLUME/STRUCTURE_LEVEL and remount.5     $ MOUNT _$43$DKA1200 ABC /OVERRIDE=LIMITED_SEARCH L     %MOUNT-W-INCONSTRUCT, inconsistent file structure level on _$43$DKA1200:B     -MOUNT-I-DOSETVOL, Use SET VOLUME/STRUCTURE_LEVEL and remount.  F for the proper value of ABC.  Now these are ODS-2 disks, and I get the expected result:  , 	$ SET VOLUME/STRUCTURE_LEVEL=2 _$43$DKA1200; 	%SET-E-INVQUAL, value '2' invalid for /STRUCTURE qualifier   C so choosing one of the disk for sacrificial upgrade (knowing I will 5 have to do a full backup to get back to ODS-2) I try:   , 	$ SET VOLUME/STRUCTURE_LEVEL=5 _$43$DKA1200) 	%SET-E-NOTMOD, _$43$DKA1200 not modified - 	-SYSTEM-F-DEVNOTMOUNT, device is not mounted   ' Isn't that what it just told me to do ?    Continuing, I try   !     $ MOUNT _$43$DKA1200 /FOREIGN ^     %MOUNT-F-INVALIDSCB, I/O error with storage control block on relative volume 1, location 3  C Now this is not part of a volume set, but if I am mounting Foreign, C why does VMS think there is a storage control block at location 3 ?    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2006 12:03:28 -0700/ From: "Volker Halle" <volker_halle@hotmail.com> A Subject: Re: %MOUNT-W-INCONSTRUCT, inconsistent VMS error message C Message-ID: <1156359808.579146.320640@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>    Larry,  E you didn't tell, but this is V8.2 (or higher), isn't it ? How did the  disks get into this state ?   C Maybe you could use the DISKBLOCK tool from the most recent OpenVMS F Freeware CDs to have a closer look at the disk structure information ?    Also see $ help/mess INCONSTRUCT  G When using MOUNT/FOR, VMS V8.2 will still look at the first 255. blocks E of the disk for a home block. Maybe it finds something and is getting 	 confused.    Volker.    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2006 14:57:39 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) A Subject: Re: %MOUNT-W-INCONSTRUCT, inconsistent VMS error message 3 Message-ID: <Ij5nVioR5p8N@eisner.encompasserve.org>   u In article <1156359808.579146.320640@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>, "Volker Halle" <volker_halle@hotmail.com> writes:   ; > you didn't tell, but this is V8.2 (or higher), isn't it ?    Yes.  ) > How did the disks get into this state ?   D Reasoning from what I know, they got jealous of the new computer :-)  E > Maybe you could use the DISKBLOCK tool from the most recent OpenVMS H > Freeware CDs to have a closer look at the disk structure information ?   Thanks for that tip.  " > Also see $ help/mess INCONSTRUCT > I > When using MOUNT/FOR, VMS V8.2 will still look at the first 255. blocks G > of the disk for a home block. Maybe it finds something and is getting  > confused.   G I agree that it is getting confused, but it is also giving me illogical G advice (failing to mount the disk and then suggesting an operation that  requires the disk be mounted).   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2006 22:13:24 -0700/ From: "Volker Halle" <volker_halle@hotmail.com> A Subject: Re: %MOUNT-W-INCONSTRUCT, inconsistent VMS error message C Message-ID: <1156396404.433286.254280@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>    Larry,  ? $ HELP/MESS DOSETVOL contains an appropriate description of the  necessary actions.  E The MOUNT-W-INCONSTRUCT had better been an error or fatal message, if  it failed to mount the disk.   Volker.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 03:10:22 GMT + From: "Villy Madsen" <Villy.Madsen@shaw.ca> : Subject: A true pre-emptive multi-tasking operating system. Message-ID: <yM8Hg.459488$IK3.244170@pd7tw1no>  L I decided that it was time to have a look at RDB - never did in my DEC days.  L Download the zips to my PC and then loaded them into a virtual tape using a  program that I had written,   E Mounted the tape on my emulated (simh) vax and copied the files to a   directory on the VAX.   G ran unzip -t against the files (just to verify that my tape builder is   working right).   I Given that the poor old thing is only cranking out about 7 or 8 vups - a  " lengthy process  (although the max: io count impresses me - higher than I ever saw on a 4300!)  4 So decided to fiddle with the autogen parameters....  I CPU sitting at 100%,  heavy IO load, and my trivial response time is....   trivial....   L XP still can't do that - unless the application chewing up the processor is ! very multi-tasking friendly......   % How things have kind of progressed...    Villy    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2006 20:20:13 -0700' From: "toby" <toby@telegraphics.com.au> > Subject: Re: A true pre-emptive multi-tasking operating systemC Message-ID: <1156389613.925794.190280@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Villy Madsen wrote: N > I decided that it was time to have a look at RDB - never did in my DEC days. > M > Download the zips to my PC and then loaded them into a virtual tape using a  > program that I had written,  > F > Mounted the tape on my emulated (simh) vax and copied the files to a > directory on the VAX.  > H > ran unzip -t against the files (just to verify that my tape builder is > working right).  > J > Given that the poor old thing is only cranking out about 7 or 8 vups - a$ > lengthy process  (although the max< > io count impresses me - higher than I ever saw on a 4300!) > 6 > So decided to fiddle with the autogen parameters.... > J > CPU sitting at 100%,  heavy IO load, and my trivial response time is....
 > trivial....  > M > XP still can't do that - unless the application chewing up the processor is # > very multi-tasking friendly......  > ' > How things have kind of progressed...   G Those with a clue avoid MS (UNIX multitasks just fine if you can't have  VMS).    >  > Villy    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 03:37:32 GMT + From: "Villy Madsen" <Villy.Madsen@shaw.ca> > Subject: Re: A true pre-emptive multi-tasking operating system. Message-ID: <0a9Hg.448331$iF6.238352@pd7tw2no>  H The only problem with *ix is that I can't remember if my name is spelled   villy or Villy or VILLY   0 and if I need to use a -H or a -h or a -r or,,,,  H and it would be so nice if the MAN (sorry man) entries had some useable 1 examples that a 55 year brain could make sense of    Villy       3 "toby" <toby@telegraphics.com.au> wrote in message  = news:1156389613.925794.190280@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...  >  > Villy Madsen wrote: J >> I decided that it was time to have a look at RDB - never did in my DEC  >> days. >>M >> Download the zips to my PC and then loaded them into a virtual tape using   >> a >> program that I had written, >>G >> Mounted the tape on my emulated (simh) vax and copied the files to a  >> directory on the VAX. >>I >> ran unzip -t against the files (just to verify that my tape builder is  >> working right). >>K >> Given that the poor old thing is only cranking out about 7 or 8 vups - a % >> lengthy process  (although the max = >> io count impresses me - higher than I ever saw on a 4300!)  >>7 >> So decided to fiddle with the autogen parameters....  >>K >> CPU sitting at 100%,  heavy IO load, and my trivial response time is....  >> trivial.... >>L >> XP still can't do that - unless the application chewing up the processor  >> is $ >> very multi-tasking friendly...... >>( >> How things have kind of progressed... > I > Those with a clue avoid MS (UNIX multitasks just fine if you can't have  > VMS).  >  >> >> Villy >    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2006 22:09:37 -0700' From: "toby" <toby@telegraphics.com.au> > Subject: Re: A true pre-emptive multi-tasking operating systemA Message-ID: <1156396177.150042.95520@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>    Villy Madsen wrote: J > The only problem with *ix is that I can't remember if my name is spelled > 
 > villy or
 > Villy or > VILLY   = If it helps, OS X's default filesystem is case insensitive :)    > 2 > and if I need to use a -H or a -h or a -r or,,,, > I > and it would be so nice if the MAN (sorry man) entries had some useable 3 > examples that a 55 year brain could make sense of   F This is why the web and Google were invented. :) The learning curve on VMS isn't much less steep.   >  > Villy  >  >  > 4 > "toby" <toby@telegraphics.com.au> wrote in message? > news:1156389613.925794.190280@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...  > >  > > Villy Madsen wrote: K > >> I decided that it was time to have a look at RDB - never did in my DEC 
 > >> days. > >>N > >> Download the zips to my PC and then loaded them into a virtual tape using > >> a  > >> program that I had written, > >>I > >> Mounted the tape on my emulated (simh) vax and copied the files to a  > >> directory on the VAX. > >>K > >> ran unzip -t against the files (just to verify that my tape builder is  > >> working right). > >>M > >> Given that the poor old thing is only cranking out about 7 or 8 vups - a ' > >> lengthy process  (although the max ? > >> io count impresses me - higher than I ever saw on a 4300!)  > >>9 > >> So decided to fiddle with the autogen parameters....  > >>M > >> CPU sitting at 100%,  heavy IO load, and my trivial response time is....  > >> trivial.... > >>M > >> XP still can't do that - unless the application chewing up the processor  > >> is & > >> very multi-tasking friendly...... > >>* > >> How things have kind of progressed... > > K > > Those with a clue avoid MS (UNIX multitasks just fine if you can't have 	 > > VMS).  > >  > >>
 > >> Villy > >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 21:14:46 -0500 6 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net>. Subject: Re: ANN: DynDNS update client for VMS0 Message-ID: <44ED0B96.7C27B5B6@spam.comcast.net>   Mark Daniel wrote: >  > David J. Dachtera wrote: > > Mark Daniel wrote: > >  > >>David J. Dachtera wrote: > >> > >>>Mark Daniel wrote:  > >>>  > >>> 1 > >>>>Recent discussion of a DynDNS update client  > >>>>2 > >>>>  http://www.dyndns.com/services/dns/dyndns/ > >>>>M > >>>>in this forum prompted me to do something I'd been meaning to for years M > >>>>- put together a native version for VMS and move the update duties from J > >>>>my PC to my VMS system.  It has now been running for some four weeksL > >>>>without too many hiccoughs so you are welcome to give it a go as well.G > >>>>It requires the HP [Open]SSL product to be installed and started.  > >>>>J > >>>>A complementary application included, DynDNSrpt, is a CGI Web serverJ > >>>>application that can be used as a basic reporting tool for the aboveJ > >>>>application (should be suitable for Apache, OSU, Purveyor and WASD). > >>>>M > >>>>Setup, build instructions and revision log for each may be found in the D > >>>>source code each of the respective applications once restored. > >>>>> > >>>>A ZIPed source-code kit (it is assumed users will be VMSF > >>>>enthusiasts/hobbiests with their own compiler) is available from > >>>>$ > >>>>  http://wasd.vsm.com.au/wasd/ > >>>> > >>>>Hope it's useful.  > >>>  > >>> E > >>>Just wondering if this has any advantage over the WGET approach?  > >>H > >>Don't know David.  I'm aware of the DCL-based utility that uses WGETJ > >>because of the recent discussion here that mentioned it.  I didn't useH > >>it as a reference when putting together my own though and so I'm not' > >>aware of what it can (or can't do).  > >  > > 3 > > As I use it, the WGET approach works like this:  > > L > > 1. "Visit" a URL that returns "your" IP address as viewed by the outside > > world (the internet).  > > < > > 2. "Visit" a second URL that causes the update to occur. > > 0 > > A little bit of DCL in between does the job. >  > That's the gist. > % > There's a bit more to it of course.  > C > DynDNS' specifications have a number of policies regarding client D > behaviour.  These, amongst other requirements, limit the number ofI > accesses to their web-based client IP identification service in a given G > period, and require that the update service only be accessed when the E > client's IP address has actually changed. Poor client behaviour can D > result in being blocked by DynDNS (someone has reported to me thisF > happened to them when a local modification to their VMS-based clientH > made it a little too eager to keep DynDNS informed :-)  Various DynDNSB > update service responses should be parsed and behaviour modified > appropriately.  And so forth.   ) Mine runs nightly, in batch (of course!).   F A caveat would be that your address needs to be updated at least everyH 30 days, whether the IP address has changed or not or you will receive a) de-activation e-mail with a grace period.   D My update job dropped off the queue for some reason, and that's what happened to me a month later.   B > Of course there are other bells-and-whistles that make the basicE > functionality of any application more useful or pleasant to use and  > DynDNSupd is no different. > ? > The 80-20 rule (or variant) applies here as much as anywhere.    Whatever works for ya!   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2006 11:31:41 -0700( From: "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com>& Subject: Re: Datatrieve/CDD protectionC Message-ID: <1156357901.427099.294320@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Norman Lastovica wrote: H > agreed.  you'll probably want give the oracle CDD support team a call. > - > Barry.Treahy@EmersonNetworkPower.com wrote:  > >  > > Hi Rich, > > C > > Knowing which versions might help but if memory serves, CDD was H > > dependent on Rdb and this sounds like you have Rdb permission issuesH > > with the database, not necessarily external RMS file permissions but6 > > perhaps internally with the ACL's on the tables... > >  > > Barry Treahy, Jr > > Vice President/CIO > > Midwest Microwave, Inc. 0 > > Emerson Network Power Connectivity Solutions0 > > E-mail: Barry.Treahy@EmersonNetworkPower.com > > Phone: 480/314-1320  > > Cell:     480/216-9568 > > Fax:     480/661-7028  > >  ...  >  > -- > - - - - - 2 >  opinions expressed here are mine and mine alone/ >  and certainly are not intended in any way to 2 >  express or represent any opinions or commitment >  of oracle corporation.  > , >  norman lastovica / oracle rdb engineering  C Thanks both of you.  Working to see if a support call is an option, $ otherwise its more document delving.  = Is there a way to get Rdb to log or otherwise report 'access' C violations?  If so its not there by default at least as far as I've  been able to find out.  D BTW, DTR V7.3, Rdb V7.0-62, CDD V7.0A, on OpenVMS Alpha V7.3-2, with
 MANMAN V11.4.    Rich   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 21:20:16 -0500 6 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net>4 Subject: Re: Dell Powervault 120T autoloader on VMS?0 Message-ID: <44ED0CE0.1194B121@spam.comcast.net>  
 cmk wrote: > [snip]% > Firstly, VMS doesn't support LTO-1.   B Actually, that's the other way around: LTO-1 is not ANSI-compliant@ (requires even byte-count transfers; so, variable length recordsE (blocks) are not fully supported); hence, LTO-1 does not support VMS.   5 Perchance, do you have VMS Alpha object code for MTX?    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 21:16:35 -0500 6 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net> Subject: Re: Dibol programmers/ Message-ID: <44ED0C03.5AA7570@spam.comcast.net>    bclaremont wrote:  > & > Warning: Shameless Self Promotion... > @ > I provide DIBOL consulting services.  I also sell a DIBOL to CE > converter, should the need arise.  More information is available at  > these links: > 2 > Home Page: http://www.migrationspecialties.com/. > Programming Services: ? > http://www.migrationspecialties.com/Services.html#Programming D > CBL: DIBOL Converter: http://www.migrationspecialties.com/CBL.html  F Is that distrubition company still in business? A Yahoo! search didn't return a website for them.   --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2006 11:24:02 -0700( From: "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com>, Subject: Infoserver 1000 working tape drivesB Message-ID: <1156357442.811828.260100@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>  D With the release to freeware of the additional function keys for the@ Infoserver software, I'm going to do some changes on my hobbyistD network.  I don't run a cluster in order to provide data segregationF between the 'public' server and the private systems (currently both onF the private side of my firewalled LAN) so can't back up direct to tape from the public server.   D I currently have a TLZ07 (4-8GB DAT)  and a TZK11 (2GB QIC).  I know9 the TZK11 will work (per the HP supported devices page at   V http://h18000.www1.hp.com/support/asktima/communications/00970DEB-1D4D8F6F-1C007A.html  = but the TLZ07 will have to be tested when I can take down the  workstation it is installed in.   F I plan on installing any half height drives in the infotower my IS1000F is in.  The tower is lightly loaded (one DSP3105 disk, one RRD45 CDROMG right now) so I don't expect heat or power issues.  Fortunately it came ' with a couple of extra mounting slides.   @ Has anyone tested other newer/higher capacity tape drives on theG IS1000?  "Official" support is not needed; this is a hobby system and I E can test backup and restore viability to my own satisfaction at home. G If I have time to do any testing in the near future I'll post here too.   F If a newer DLT than a TZ86, or newer TLZxx DAT drive will work then itF will be worth getting one for this new shared drive backup capability.   Thanks!    Rich CCS    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 19:13:49 GMT , From: Hoff Hoffman <hoff-remove-this@hp.com>0 Subject: Re: Infoserver 1000 working tape drives0 Message-ID: <NN1Hg.147$Wi2.110@news.cpqcorp.net>   Rich Jordan wrote:  B > Has anyone tested other newer/higher capacity tape drives on theI > IS1000?  "Official" support is not needed; this is a hobby system and I G > can test backup and restore viability to my own satisfaction at home. I > If I have time to do any testing in the near future I'll post here too.   O    While I do not know this with any certainty, I would not tend to expect any  O such testing has ever been conducted.  The last of the engineering work on the  Q associated hardware and software -- other than occasional and specific fixes for  N existing InfoServer hardware configurations found required within the OpenVMS . MADDRIVER device driver -- was many years ago.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2006 14:23:36 -0700( From: "Rich Jordan" <jordan@ccs4vms.com>0 Subject: Re: Infoserver 1000 working tape drivesB Message-ID: <1156368216.506188.317150@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > Rich Jordan wrote: > D > > Has anyone tested other newer/higher capacity tape drives on theK > > IS1000?  "Official" support is not needed; this is a hobby system and I I > > can test backup and restore viability to my own satisfaction at home. K > > If I have time to do any testing in the near future I'll post here too.  > P >    While I do not know this with any certainty, I would not tend to expect anyP > such testing has ever been conducted.  The last of the engineering work on theR > associated hardware and software -- other than occasional and specific fixes forO > existing InfoServer hardware configurations found required within the OpenVMS 0 > MADDRIVER device driver -- was many years ago.   Hoff, F      yep, I didn't expect anything newer from DEC archives or HP.  I'mE just hoping someone who actually had the tape function key before now F might have tried out different tape drives on their own, and have some7 idea of what newer drives might work, supported or not.   E The highest capacity listed is the 6GB TZ86 DLT, or a 42GB TZ867 tape B loader, though that is in the IS1000 V3.1 software list so maybe aB later release added a few newer drives (I have the newer kits withD documentation somewhere, including a V3.5 ECO 1 I need to compare toE what was on the freeware when I can find it).  Thats a bit of a hefty A unit for such moderate capacity; if a DDS-3 or better DAT will by 1 chance work, that would be a much nicer solution.    Rich  * BTW thanks again for getting the licenses!   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2006 12:59:59 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) , Subject: Re: KZPBA-CB and PWS 433au problems3 Message-ID: <hqNU1aWfqASs@eisner.encompasserve.org>   { In article <8660a3a10608231044k4ac11a0at529b91a46c54ec74@mail.gmail.com>, "William Webb" <william.w.webb@gmail.com> writes:    > Is that the diskette with  >  > ISP 1020/1040 NT DD %QB5T8AA
 > AK-R5XUC-CA  >  > on it? > G > I think you slap the card in an Intel-based PC and use that diskette.    Not around here, you don't :-)   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2006 18:41:12 -0700 From: wendzinski@yahoo.com Subject: LBR$OPEN C Message-ID: <1156383672.713114.296100@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>   B I am trying to access the MANMAN help library in a FORTRAN program using the following commands:   * ISTAT=LBR$INI_CONTROL(LIBINDEX,LBR$C_READ)- ISTAT=LBR$OPEN(LIBINDEX,'MM$HELP:MMHELP.HLB')   F The first command returns a value of 1 in LIBINDEX.  However, the open7 command is not working.  Any help would be appreciated.    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2006 18:50:38 -0700/ From: "David B Sneddon" <dbsneddon@bigpond.com>  Subject: Re: LBR$OPEN B Message-ID: <1156384238.618909.36150@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>   wendzinski@yahoo.com wrote: D > I am trying to access the MANMAN help library in a FORTRAN program > using the following commands:  > , > ISTAT=LBR$INI_CONTROL(LIBINDEX,LBR$C_READ)/ > ISTAT=LBR$OPEN(LIBINDEX,'MM$HELP:MMHELP.HLB')  > H > The first command returns a value of 1 in LIBINDEX.  However, the open9 > command is not working.  Any help would be appreciated.   6 What is the return status?  That will tell you exactly what the problem is...   Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 22:25:12 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: LBR$OPEN , Message-ID: <44ED0DF5.29BA2318@teksavvy.com>   wendzinski@yahoo.com wrote: , > ISTAT=LBR$INI_CONTROL(LIBINDEX,LBR$C_READ)/ > ISTAT=LBR$OPEN(LIBINDEX,'MM$HELP:MMHELP.HLB')  > H > The first command returns a value of 1 in LIBINDEX.  However, the open9 > command is not working.  Any help would be appreciated.   C One thing you need to look at is whether the bad status is returned H immediatly or after a 30 second period. If it fails after 30 seconds, it? means that the library file has been opened by someone else for H read/write and cannot be opened by you in read-only mode. It does return a "file locked" error message.    G If you get the value of the status, you can easily translate the number 
 to text with:    $ EXIT <number>     G Also, note that there are many additional optional arguments to both (2 G for INI and 5 for OPEN on top of those you supplied) and at least in C, F I always supply those as a zero value. Not sure how fortran deals with such a situation.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 17:51:38 GMT . From: Brian Peasland <dba@nospam.peasland.net>4 Subject: Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS/ Message-ID: <J4GpM3.84w@igsrsparc2.er.usgs.gov>    JF Mezei wrote:  > DA Morgan wrote:@ >> Personally I'd move to Linux as fast as I could. Consider the? >> tremendous financial savings for support as well as the fact ( >> that patches will show up far faster. >  > I > If VMS management do not do something to keep Oracle on VMS and in fact I > grow its presence on VMS, I think it may in fact signal the true end of $ > VMS. It will send a strong signal. > I > Remember that there is that suppposed 10 billion buck fund to help port H > software. If HP isn't going to use any of it to help VMS, then it alsoH > sends quite a strong signal about HP's intentions with reagrds to VMS.J > With that 10 billion fund, you'd think tyhey would have already givenm a: > big grant to Tom Linden to port PL1 to VMS-IA64 already.  F We went through a similar exercise many years ago with SGI. Oracle 8i I was the end of the road for SGI IRIX and being a shop that works heavily  D with image processing, SGI was the preferred Unix flavor, so we ran G Oracle on SGI for a number of years. We ended up talking with some SGI  I VP trying to get them to pressure Oracle Corp to continue supporting SGI  I for the future, but our efforts were to no avail. And if you look at SGI  > as a company, they are drifting more towards Linux these days.   Cheers,  Brian    --  C ===================================================================    Brian Peasland dba@nospam.peasland.net  http://www.peasland.net   8 Remove the "nospam." from the email address to email me.    - "I can give it to you cheap, quick, and good. ( Now pick two out of the three" - Unknown   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2006 13:02:55 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 4 Subject: Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS3 Message-ID: <0yXtZtTvgSOR@eisner.encompasserve.org>   ` In article <EK9QcPFAITef@malvm9.mala.bc.ca>, nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) writes:  D >    The fascinating thing is that there is an Oracle 10gR2 StandardE > Edition for Tru64 Unix. So an O/S that HP has declared as dead gets 9 > a port but an O/S HP says has a future doesn't. Hmmm...   > So it might be a matter of effort required (Tru64 being Unix).  ; But I think it is more likely "what the traffic will bear".   ; As I recall Rdb was priced to match the comparably featured ! Oracle Classic, meaning high-end.    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2006 13:05:08 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) 4 Subject: Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS3 Message-ID: <uCm0El31ZLCR@eisner.encompasserve.org>   s In article <1156352001.425216.237320@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>, "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> writes:   * > I wonder what most Sybase customers did?  F I don't know about "most", but "some" of them are still running Sybase4 on VMS, and advertising for staff from time to time.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 11:15:15 -0700 $ From: DA Morgan <damorgan@psoug.org>4 Subject: Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS6 Message-ID: <1156356915.385990@bubbleator.drizzle.com>   Dave Froble wrote: > Malcolm Dunnett wrote:H >> In article <1156309756.359226@bubbleator.drizzle.com>,            DA & >> Morgan <damorgan@psoug.org> writes:C >>> I would argue that Standard Edition is not mission critical for A >>> you as you can always substitute Enterprise Edition. What may A >>> matter is the cost of the license. And here is where you need C >>> to invite back that lovely sales rep and ask them how hard they B >>> can work, between now and license renewal time, to get that EE0 >>> license to match the cost of the SE license. >>: >>     I'm investigating that angle. Perhaps something canB >> be worked out but there'd still be the ongoing software support> >> costs to be considered, ie what will the cost delta be over >> the next 5 or 10 years? >>F >>     The other option is to get a linux box and move the SE licensesG >> to it. Of course neither of these solutions is as good as convincing % >> Oracle to keep offering SE on VMS.  >> > G > Your problem is that you consider yourself locked into using Oracle.  H > They know that you can run on Linux, probably cheaper than running on I > VMS, and that this will continue to appeal to you and they'll keep you  J > as a customer.  They don't give a damn about your desire to continue to I > run VMS.  You need a non-Oracle option to possibly get their attention.    Perhaps DB2?7 http://www-306.ibm.com/software/data/db2/9/sysreqs.html i http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/db2luw/v8/index.jsp?topic=/com.ibm.db2.ii.doc/start/riios32b.htm    Or Informix?6 http://www-306.ibm.com/software/data/informix/support/   Or SQL Server?  A Well there is always Sybase if you don't mind staking your future + on an O/S and a database that are marginal. [ http://search.sybase.com/search/simple.do?keyword=VMS&Submit.x=11&Submit.y=12&Submit=Submit    Time to move on. --   Daniel A. Morgan University of Washington damorgan@x.washington.edu  (replace x with u to respond)  Puget Sound Oracle Users Group
 www.psoug.org    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2006 11:51:28 -0700 From: davidc@montagar.com 4 Subject: Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMSB Message-ID: <1156359088.494356.107290@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   Dave Froble wrote:F > Your problem is that you consider yourself locked into using Oracle.G > They know that you can run on Linux, probably cheaper than running on H > VMS, and that this will continue to appeal to you and they'll keep youI > as a customer.  They don't give a damn about your desire to continue to I > run VMS.  You need a non-Oracle option to possibly get their attention.   @ Exactly -- especially if your database needs can be met (if onlyE barely!) by MySQL.  Even MS SQL Server on a Windows box (which likely @ would be much cheaper than Oracle) and using unixODBC/freetds on OpenVMS to access it.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 12:01:14 -0700 $ From: DA Morgan <damorgan@psoug.org>4 Subject: Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS6 Message-ID: <1156359672.897940@bubbleator.drizzle.com>   davidc@montagar.com wrote: > Dave Froble wrote:G >> Your problem is that you consider yourself locked into using Oracle. H >> They know that you can run on Linux, probably cheaper than running onI >> VMS, and that this will continue to appeal to you and they'll keep you J >> as a customer.  They don't give a damn about your desire to continue toJ >> run VMS.  You need a non-Oracle option to possibly get their attention. > B > Exactly -- especially if your database needs can be met (if onlyG > barely!) by MySQL.  Even MS SQL Server on a Windows box (which likely B > would be much cheaper than Oracle) and using unixODBC/freetds on > OpenVMS to access it.   F Just don't have any requirement to comply with Sarbanes-Oxley, PIPEDA,? FACTA, HIPAA, BASEL II, or require scalability, performance, or > failover. Works like a charm if you just go back to the 1990s. --   Daniel A. Morgan University of Washington damorgan@x.washington.edu  (replace x with u to respond)  Puget Sound Oracle Users Group
 www.psoug.org    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 19:46:27 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing)4 Subject: Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS6 Message-ID: <00A5AA3A.9CD73BE7@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  \ In article <1156336555.952861.3580@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com>, bob@instantwhip.com writes: >  >Sybrand Bakker wrote: >>B >> I wouldn't be surprised is OpenVMS is going to be a desupported@ >> platform soon. If you realize how many options are simply not? >> available for OpenVMS, and how kludgy Oracle implemented and G >> documented OFA, you realize you would better change O/S, if you want  >> to continue Oracle.C >> The number of customers on the planet might number less than 10.  >> >> -- $ >> Sybrand Bakker, Senior Oracle DBA > E >what a lie!  OpenVMS will be around for a LONG LONG time ... that is > >straight from the high ups at HP ... better yet, DUMP ORACLE!  N Bob, I think your inflammatory accusation of "a lie" is based on a misreading.L I belive Sybrand is saying that he won't be surprised if _Oracle_ desupportsN VMS soon, and is saying nothing about _HP_ desupporting VMS.  So your responseM about what the high ups at HP says is irrelevant.  (And, though I hate to say M it as a VMS fan, not necessarily any more trustworthy than what high ups said ! about their commitment to Alpha.)    -- Alan    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2006 13:23:02 -0700 From: davidc@montagar.com 4 Subject: Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS@ Message-ID: <1156364582.564213.5700@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   DA Morgan wrote:H > Just don't have any requirement to comply with Sarbanes-Oxley, PIPEDA,A > FACTA, HIPAA, BASEL II, or require scalability, performance, or @ > failover. Works like a charm if you just go back to the 1990s.  C I'm sure Oracle isn't the only solution that meets all those needs, G while I understand it may be the prefered solution.  Don't get me wrong G - The point isn't to replace Oracle, but to insure Oracle supports what - the user wants - Standard Edition on OpenVMS.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 16:57:58 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 4 Subject: Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS, Message-ID: <44ECC148.275E873B@teksavvy.com>   DA Morgan wrote:H > Just don't have any requirement to comply with Sarbanes-Oxley, PIPEDA,A > FACTA, HIPAA, BASEL II, or require scalability, performance, or @ > failover. Works like a charm if you just go back to the 1990s.  A Oracle could respond: If you need those things, then you need the  Enterpri$e edition.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 17:06:42 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 4 Subject: Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS+ Message-ID: <44ECC354.73DF024@teksavvy.com>    davidc@montagar.com wrote:E > I'm sure Oracle isn't the only solution that meets all those needs, I > while I understand it may be the prefered solution.  Don't get me wrong I > - The point isn't to replace Oracle, but to insure Oracle supports what / > the user wants - Standard Edition on OpenVMS.     D Back up a few decades, and there was a saying "No one has eveer been fired for choosing IBM".  E This saying probably applies to Oracle for databases today. It is the > de-facto standard for serious databases, at least image-wise.   C VMS needs Oracle more than Oracle needs VMS. Remove Oracle, and VMS G becomes some niche OS that is detached from the main popular middleware @ and applications and this not seen as a viable solution for many businesses.   F And this news becomes a serious test for HP's commitment to VMS. If HPG does nothing and lets Oracle widthdraw support, that sends a very clear E message to the remaining VMS customer base. If, on the other hand, HP H gets in touch with Oracle and convinces them to continue/increase OracleR support on VMS, that would send a much more positive message to the VMS community.  F HP has an opportunity to prove its commitment to VMS. Lets see if they take it.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 17:07:32 -0400 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> 4 Subject: Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS: Message-ID: <QvOdnUSt9uwpXnHZnZ2dnUVZ_oednZ2d@comcast.com>   Doug Phillips wrote:   > Sybrand Bakker wrote:  > C >>On 22 Aug 2006 21:08:06 -0700, nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm  >>Dunnett) wrote:  >> >>< >>>I've been told that the decision to kill Standard Edition= >>>for VMS is "not final". I would encourage anyone out there  <snip> > E > I wonder what most Sybase customers did? Did they keep VMS and move I > data over to (something else)? Keep Sybase and leave VMS? How many kept H > VMS and moved to Oracle? How many times will a customer get burned ---G > incurring major conversion costs because of OpenVMS --- before moving  > to a more reliable supplier. >   D My last employer used Sybase.  After Sybase dropped support for VMS @ (31-DEC-2001) IIRC, we just went right on running it.  I had an I AlphaServer 4100 and an AlphaServer 2000 running VMS 6.2-1H3 and Sybase.  C   One ran the marketing database and the other one served customer  ? "imprints" (typesetting language for customers business cards,  D letterheads, checks, etc.)  It would have cost an arm and an leg to C convert to just about anything else so they just ran the old stuff  D forever.  The company has since been acquired and I believe the new 5 owner trashed all that stuff and used their own apps.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 17:15:20 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> 4 Subject: RE: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMST Message-ID: <FA60F2C4B72A584DBFC6091F6A2B8684019134DB@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----0 > From: DA Morgan [mailto:damorgan@psoug.org]=20 > Sent: August 23, 2006 3:01 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 6 > Subject: Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS >=20 > davidc@montagar.com wrote: > > Dave Froble wrote:> > >> Your problem is that you consider yourself locked into=20 > using Oracle. B > >> They know that you can run on Linux, probably cheaper than=20 > running on= > >> VMS, and that this will continue to appeal to you and=20  > they'll keep you@ > >> as a customer.  They don't give a damn about your desire=20 > to continue to> > >> run VMS.  You need a non-Oracle option to possibly get=20 > their attention. > >=20D > > Exactly -- especially if your database needs can be met (if only> > > barely!) by MySQL.  Even MS SQL Server on a Windows box=20 > (which likely D > > would be much cheaper than Oracle) and using unixODBC/freetds on > > OpenVMS to access it.  >=20H > Just don't have any requirement to comply with Sarbanes-Oxley, PIPEDA,A > FACTA, HIPAA, BASEL II, or require scalability, performance, or @ > failover. Works like a charm if you just go back to the 1990s. > --=20  > Daniel A. Morgan > University of Washington > damorgan@x.washington.edu  > (replace x with u to respond)   > Puget Sound Oracle Users Group > www.psoug.org  >=20    B Mmmm.. MySQL now has clustering (albeit only active-passive) and aF number of other high end features. While certainly not at the level ofH Oracle, it would appear you are basing your statement on where MySQL was a number of years ago.  / http://www.mysql.com/products/database/cluster/ 3 http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1749010,00.asp   G Btw, SOX, BASEL II and other compliance requirements do not get down to > product level criteria. They are more about accountability and
 processes.  ? Heck, imho, if I was worried about Govt compliance and security D concerns, I would question moving to a platform like Linux which hasG approximately 5-20 *security* patches per month. The monthly QA/Testing @ time and $'s associated with the mission critical app's would beH *exponentially* higher than any base or annual OS support costs - not toH mention the impact to the QA/testing group not being able to QA/test new9 application functionality which is their primary role.=20    Reference the RH Linux site:E https://www.redhat.com/archives/enterprise-watch-list/ (click on each H month and go all the way back to 2004, 2005 and see what that number is.G Yes, not all apply to all systems, but some are also "bundled" patches)    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 23:50:44 +0200 0 From: Sybrand Bakker <postbus@sybrandb.demon.nl>4 Subject: Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS8 Message-ID: <c6jpe2l9f6t61ufvshva5uuh9e92nehbte@4ax.com>  F On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 19:46:27 GMT, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan( Winston - SSRL Central Computing) wrote:  O >Bob, I think your inflammatory accusation of "a lie" is based on a misreading. E >I belive Sybrand is saying that he won't be surprised if _Oracle_ de   % Which was exactly what I was saying.  , Who is using Oracle on OpenVMS? Pretty few. @ And the list of Oracle 9i EE options NOT available on OpenVMS is pretty long.; What is more: Oracle recommends replacing OpenVMS by Linux. . The future of Oracle on OpenVMS is pretty dim.     --! Sybrand Bakker, Senior Oracle DBA    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2006 14:48:11 -0700- From: "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> 4 Subject: Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMSC Message-ID: <1156369691.435382.197640@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>    Larry Kilgallen wrote:u > In article <1156352001.425216.237320@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>, "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> writes:  > , > > I wonder what most Sybase customers did? > H > I don't know about "most", but "some" of them are still running Sybase6 > on VMS, and advertising for staff from time to time.  G Indeed. As is the case with many no longer sold/supported products. The E "do nothing" option is valid until need exceeds capability, or unless F organization policy requires product currency. The "do nothing" optionC is available to current happy and static Oracle SE (or any product) ? users regardless of what Oracle (or any product supplier) does.   > Reading the OP it didn't seem like "do nothing" was an option.    -Doug   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 21:56:49 GMT + From: "Villy Madsen" <Villy.Madsen@shaw.ca> 4 Subject: Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS. Message-ID: <Ba4Hg.446854$Mn5.181790@pd7tw3no>   Kerry, Kerry, Kerry   J haven't you yet realized that the time your employees spend and the costs I associated with assorted down times etc etc are only work .001% of the $  I cost associated with a product that the Industry (Gartner Group eg) says   shouldn't exist.  H I recommended the use of the AS/400 and it's database for a maintenance L management application back in the days when the AS/400 was first announced H (the app had been born on the S/38).  Gartner published an article that I stated that the AS/400 was a goner - it would never be more than a niche  L product.  As expensive a product as another system that I love (guess which  one).   K As has been mentioned here - The midrange (as/400) group at IBM would have  H been the world's 2nd largest computer company - if it had been spun off.  H These systems ran for years on obsolete equipment (ring a bell) and the L recent spate of upgrades are due to the fact that the new hardware is a lot & cheaper (and I think not as reliable).  L We had 3 of these systems in production - install in '91 and never a system C caused data corruption.. (read - never had to do a system restore).   D I might add that the price looks pretty cheap compared to Oracle....  J There was another system in the running, the application also ran on Data  General computers...  H For the longest time, I used to get great mileage out of asking the *ix E support guys how long it had been since their last database restore.  K Fortunately - it's been a good long time since the last one, but it wasn't  
 always so.  H The AS/400s are still sitting at one since their install 17 years ago - M caused by an IBM guy who didn't realize that he needed to reset the TOD when  I changing the service processor (console processor).  Nobody said a thing  M until the eod, the eom, the eoy and eo decade finished running...  Easier to  J restore.  That happened in '92 or there abouts.... (there wasn't anything I wrong with the service processor other than the clock battery had met an   untimely end).  M I've thought for a long time that good doesn't matter any more.  (Except for  < Oracle, it remains good and pricy  (both relating to cost)).   Villy       3 "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> wrote in message  N news:FA60F2C4B72A584DBFC6091F6A2B8684019134DB@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net...     > -----Original Message------ > From: DA Morgan [mailto:damorgan@psoug.org]  > Sent: August 23, 2006 3:01 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 6 > Subject: Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS >  > davidc@montagar.com wrote: > > Dave Froble wrote:; > >> Your problem is that you consider yourself locked into  > using Oracle. ? > >> They know that you can run on Linux, probably cheaper than  > running on: > >> VMS, and that this will continue to appeal to you and > they'll keep you= > >> as a customer.  They don't give a damn about your desire  > to continue to; > >> run VMS.  You need a non-Oracle option to possibly get  > their attention. > > D > > Exactly -- especially if your database needs can be met (if only; > > barely!) by MySQL.  Even MS SQL Server on a Windows box  > (which likely D > > would be much cheaper than Oracle) and using unixODBC/freetds on > > OpenVMS to access it.  > H > Just don't have any requirement to comply with Sarbanes-Oxley, PIPEDA,A > FACTA, HIPAA, BASEL II, or require scalability, performance, or @ > failover. Works like a charm if you just go back to the 1990s. > --   > Daniel A. Morgan > University of Washington > damorgan@x.washington.edu  > (replace x with u to respond)   > Puget Sound Oracle Users Group > www.psoug.org  >     B Mmmm.. MySQL now has clustering (albeit only active-passive) and aF number of other high end features. While certainly not at the level ofH Oracle, it would appear you are basing your statement on where MySQL was a number of years ago.  / http://www.mysql.com/products/database/cluster/ 3 http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1749010,00.asp   G Btw, SOX, BASEL II and other compliance requirements do not get down to > product level criteria. They are more about accountability and
 processes.  ? Heck, imho, if I was worried about Govt compliance and security D concerns, I would question moving to a platform like Linux which hasG approximately 5-20 *security* patches per month. The monthly QA/Testing @ time and $'s associated with the mission critical app's would beH *exponentially* higher than any base or annual OS support costs - not toH mention the impact to the QA/testing group not being able to QA/test new6 application functionality which is their primary role.   Reference the RH Linux site:E https://www.redhat.com/archives/enterprise-watch-list/ (click on each H month and go all the way back to 2004, 2005 and see what that number is.G Yes, not all apply to all systems, but some are also "bundled" patches)    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)   4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 22:10:24 GMT . From: Brian Peasland <dba@nospam.peasland.net>4 Subject: Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS/ Message-ID: <J4H1LD.4Hu@igsrsparc2.er.usgs.gov>   H > HP has an opportunity to prove its commitment to VMS. Lets see if they
 > take it.  H And that may well be the crux of the issue....maybe HP does not want to C see VMS survive for the long run. Maybe they want it to die a slow  1 death.....then again...maybe not!   ;) I dunno...        Cheers,  Brian      --  C ===================================================================    Brian Peasland dba@nospam.peasland.net  http://www.peasland.net   8 Remove the "nospam." from the email address to email me.    - "I can give it to you cheap, quick, and good. ( Now pick two out of the three" - Unknown   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2006 15:22:50 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) 4 Subject: Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS, Message-ID: <HgFJ4Uuc7arV@malvm9.mala.bc.ca>  4 In article <0yXtZtTvgSOR@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 3     Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes:  > E >>    The fascinating thing is that there is an Oracle 10gR2 Standard F >> Edition for Tru64 Unix. So an O/S that HP has declared as dead gets: >> a port but an O/S HP says has a future doesn't. Hmmm... > @ > So it might be a matter of effort required (Tru64 being Unix). >   B   My understanding (from Oracle sales literature) is that StandardI Edition is built from the same code base as Enterprise Edition, they just ; disable certain features. So if they're going to produce an A Enterprise Edition for VMS I can't see it being a great deal more < effort to also produce a Standard Edition ( other than a bit@ of packaging and testing ). As of Oracle 9 they haven't produced? a separate "Standard Edition" distribution, it's just an option A on the Enterprise Edition distribution kit that you select during @ installation - so there's no concerns about maintaining multiple kits.    > = > As I recall Rdb was priced to match the comparably featured # > Oracle Classic, meaning high-end.   B    Correct, Rdb is priced identically to Oracle Enterprise Edition' (or at least it was last time I looked)   A    Actually we used to be an Rdb shop, but we moved away from it, > because of cost and to be more "compatible" with the industry.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2006 15:31:55 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) 4 Subject: Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS, Message-ID: <JKuDha7OVltP@malvm9.mala.bc.ca>  \ In article <44ECC148.275E873B@teksavvy.com>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > DA Morgan wrote:I >> Just don't have any requirement to comply with Sarbanes-Oxley, PIPEDA, B >> FACTA, HIPAA, BASEL II, or require scalability, performance, orA >> failover. Works like a charm if you just go back to the 1990s.  > C > Oracle could respond: If you need those things, then you need the  > Enterpri$e edition.   B   To be fair to Oracle I should point out that they have suggestedF they might offer discounts on Enterprise Edition purchases for currentD Standard Edition on VMS users, but they've not put a figure to thoseB discounts or discussed what would happen to software support costsG or what we'd have to pay if we wanted to upgrade ( eg add another CPU )  in the future.  H   If Oracle maintains they can't produce a Standard Edition for VMS thenE what I'd rather they offer is a "licensing only" Standard Edition for A VMS - ie let me pay the Standard Edition price for any current or B new purchases as long as I sign an agreement to not use any of theH Enterprise Edition features. Granted this works on the honor system, butG so does any Oracle installation - technically speaking if I'm dishonest G I could already download an "evaluation" version of Oracle and just use H it forever - so such an agreement doesn't put Oracle at any greater risk* of licensing abuse than they already have.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2006 15:35:53 -0700+ From: "hpuxrac" <johnbhurley@sbcglobal.net> 4 Subject: Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMSB Message-ID: <1156372553.814644.42940@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>   Sybrand Bakker wrote:  > A > I wouldn't be surprised is OpenVMS is going to be a desupported ? > platform soon. If you realize how many options are simply not > > available for OpenVMS, and how kludgy Oracle implemented andF > documented OFA, you realize you would better change O/S, if you want > to continue Oracle.   G Before you guess why don't you find someone reliable in oracle and ask?   B > The number of customers on the planet might number less than 10.  A Smoking the good stuff eh?  I "might" be dating Anna Nalick is an  equally valid statement.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2006 15:40:06 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) 4 Subject: Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS, Message-ID: <Gmow4d2RtIJQ@malvm9.mala.bc.ca>  D In article <1156369691.435382.197640@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>, 2    "Doug Phillips" <dphill46@netscape.net> writes: > I > Indeed. As is the case with many no longer sold/supported products. The G > "do nothing" option is valid until need exceeds capability, or unless H > organization policy requires product currency. The "do nothing" optionE > is available to current happy and static Oracle SE (or any product) A > users regardless of what Oracle (or any product supplier) does.  > @ > Reading the OP it didn't seem like "do nothing" was an option. >   C    "Do nothing" is an option, but not a terribly attractive one. It H cuts us out of being able to take advantage of product enhancements thatF 10g has over 9i and that future Oracle versions will presumably offer.H It also eliminiates the possibility of moving from an Alpha architectureF to IA64 - which will eliminate our ability to purchase any new serversB in a few months and will make it harder to acquire used servers asA time goes on. One can also presume that VMS on IA64 will begin to D diverge from VMS on Alpha over time and that at some point the Alpha versions will be "frozen".  C    Tactically speaking I wouldn't see a great problem with freezing C our Oracle installation at 9.2 for the next 5 years or so - all the G stuff we currently have would continue to work. In fact this would save B us thousands of dollars in software support costs as there'd be noA reason to pay Oracle any software support charges. However in the A long run this solution will probably not be viable and I'd prefer A that Oracle maintain a commitment to provide us with the software + upgrades for which we continue to pay them.    ------------------------------    Date: 23 Aug 2006 15:42:26 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) 4 Subject: Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS, Message-ID: <uiLvw3NNNI08@malvm9.mala.bc.ca>  9 In article <c6jpe2l9f6t61ufvshva5uuh9e92nehbte@4ax.com>,  4   Sybrand Bakker <postbus@sybrandb.demon.nl> writes:  B > And the list of Oracle 9i EE options NOT available on OpenVMS is > pretty long.  2   If you don't need them then that doesn't matter.  = > What is more: Oracle recommends replacing OpenVMS by Linux.   6   Can you point me to where Oracle actually says that?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:03:43 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 4 Subject: Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS, Message-ID: <44ECECD5.23D65C4C@teksavvy.com>   hpuxrac wrote:C > > I wouldn't be surprised is OpenVMS is going to be a desupported  > > platform soon.    I > Before you guess why don't you find someone reliable in oracle and ask?   ? At the time Palmer was actively trying to kill VMS, Digital was " offficially denying such strategy.D At the time Compaq was actively putting forth commitments for Alpha,/ they were negitiating with Intel to kill Alpha.   F There is no way that you will get any strategic information from HO or0 Oracle on the true intentions for Oracle on VMS.  F As long as HP refuses to announce the port of VMS to a secure and longH term platform (8086), there remains doubts on the long term viability ofA VMS. And as long as there are doubts, it prevents growth and also ' dissuades ISVs from making commitments.   G In the specific case of Oracle, there have been many commitments in the E past. And one by one, they fade away. (where are the Oracle apps ?).  G And where is the HP funding to ensure Oracle remains available on VMS ? E They sure sent a lot of money to Oracle to ensure Oracle continued to  exist on HP-UX.     A The only way to trust Oracle or any ISV is to put VMS on a growth E patform, have HP actively market VMS to show the world that VMS has a A growing future and thus make it easy for ISVs to commit financial  resources to VMS.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 10:28:09 +0930 < From: "Barratt, Chris \(FMC\)" <Chris.Barratt@fmc.sa.gov.au>4 Subject: RE: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMSR Message-ID: <062C11A882E0C749A3CFD62BA461167A0680D223@hadaltmail.althad.sa.gov.au>   =20 D >    Correct, Rdb is priced identically to Oracle Enterprise Edition) > (or at least it was last time I looked)  >=20C >    Actually we used to be an Rdb shop, but we moved away from it, @ > because of cost and to be more "compatible" with the industry. >=20  D I can't say I know enough about it, but following this thread I haveH wondered whether going back to Rdb and using the OCI interface to Rdb isF an option. This makes Rdb look like an Oracle database (can't remember which version).   C While the cost probably isn't attractive, I have always been led to B believe that you got a lot more included in the Rdb price than theG Oracle Enterprise. The additional benefit is that you then get to use a E database that will continue on VMS as long as VMS continues.  The Rdb ? group seem to have been putting quite a bit of work into Oracle B compatibility over the last few years, so this may be an option to	 consider.    Cheers,  Chris    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 21:08:25 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> 4 Subject: RE: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMST Message-ID: <FA60F2C4B72A584DBFC6091F6A2B86840191353E@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----< > From: Sybrand Bakker [mailto:postbus@sybrandb.demon.nl]=20 > Sent: August 23, 2006 5:51 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 6 > Subject: Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS >=20H > On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 19:46:27 GMT, winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan* > Winston - SSRL Central Computing) wrote: >=20= > >Bob, I think your inflammatory accusation of "a lie" is=20  > based on a misreading.G > >I belive Sybrand is saying that he won't be surprised if _Oracle_ de  >=20) > Which was exactly what I was saying.=20 0 > Who is using Oracle on OpenVMS? Pretty few.=20  G ROTFL .. Obviously a UNIX type with little exposure to world outside of 
 UNIX land.  B > And the list of Oracle 9i EE options NOT available on OpenVMS is > pretty long.= > What is more: Oracle recommends replacing OpenVMS by Linux. 0 > The future of Oracle on OpenVMS is pretty dim. >=20  E Mmmm... And what does Oracle often recommend with respect to Solaris,  AIX, HP-UX?   E Just because many Oracle field types often recommend Linux migrations A for these platforms as well, does that mean Cust's should listen?    >=20 > --# > Sybrand Bakker, Senior Oracle DBA  >=20   :-)   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 22:42:04 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> 4 Subject: RE: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMST Message-ID: <FA60F2C4B72A584DBFC6091F6A2B86840191355F@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----0 > From: DA Morgan [mailto:damorgan@psoug.org]=20 > Sent: August 23, 2006 1:30 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 6 > Subject: Re: No more Oracle Standard Edition for VMS >=20 > Malcolm Dunnett wrote:= > > In article <1156309756.359226@bubbleator.drizzle.com>,=20 5 > >            DA Morgan <damorgan@psoug.org> writes: D > >> I would argue that Standard Edition is not mission critical forB > >> you as you can always substitute Enterprise Edition. What mayB > >> matter is the cost of the license. And here is where you needD > >> to invite back that lovely sales rep and ask them how hard theyC > >> can work, between now and license renewal time, to get that EE 1 > >> license to match the cost of the SE license.  > >=20; > >     I'm investigating that angle. Perhaps something can C > > be worked out but there'd still be the ongoing software support ? > > costs to be considered, ie what will the cost delta be over  > > the next 5 or 10 years?  >=20D > A lot less than changing vendors and, once again, very negotiable.A > Invite the sales rep. to save his client from going to the dark  > side.  >=20G > >     The other option is to get a linux box and move the SE licenses H > > to it. Of course neither of these solutions is as good as convincing& > > Oracle to keep offering SE on VMS. >=20? > Personally I'd move to Linux as fast as I could. Consider the > > tremendous financial savings for support as well as the fact' > that patches will show up far faster.  > --=20  > Daniel A. Morgan > University of Washington > damorgan@x.washington.edu  > (replace x with u to respond)   > Puget Sound Oracle Users Group > www.psoug.org  >=20  @ You obviously do not test all of your applications with the 5-20D *security* patches released *every* month for Linux. If so, then youE would need to add up what all of the lab/QA/testing time and resource F $'s for re-certifying your important apps. Can you really afford this?  
 Reference:G https://www.redhat.com/archives/enterprise-watch-list/ (click on thread ( for each month and add them up yourself)   Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.    H For mission critical shops, they can not afford to release *any* patches9 without first testing them against their mc applications.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 21:25:13 -0500 6 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net>J Subject: Re: openvms - java - timezone - daylight savings - what the heck!0 Message-ID: <44ED0E09.E64BED0B@spam.comcast.net>   Neil Rieck wrote:  > [snip] > According to this reference:= > http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/api/java/util/Date.html H > you need to run the output through method DateFormat.format(Date date)  F Just curious as to how you arrived at that based on the quoted URL. InD IE, Edit->Find returns no occurences of the string ".format" in that	 web page.    --   David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  & Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page! http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/   ( Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   " Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/   ) Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: " http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 23:23:54 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Patches and VMS, Message-ID: <44ED1BB3.42E1D905@teksavvy.com>   "Main, Kerry" wrote:B > You obviously do not test all of your applications with the 5-207 > *security* patches released *every* month for Linux.      	 Mr Main,    F Where a flaw was found in some jpeg routines, a patch was released forF many operating systems. Was it for VMS ? NO. Why ? Because VMS doesn't come with jpeg routines.  E So, while on paper, VMS may have fewer patches, consider that a Linux G user would receive an "official" patch from his Linux "vendor" that has E been tested and packaged. He can then install it and test it locally.   H The VMS user doesn't get such support from his VMS support contracts. HeG has to search his disks to see if some freeware jpeg routines have been F loaded onto his system, then find their origins, inquire if a patch isE needed, find the patch, apply it to the source code and rebuild those 6 jpeg routines. And since VMS doesn't come with its ownD "approved/"supported" JPEG routines, there may be multiple copies ofA different sources, and multiple copies at different version for a H particular source since each app is likely to have its own copy with its source code.  F So, tell me, which system manager has the easier job ? Linux or VMS ?  The answer is LINUX.  D Because VMS is not delivered with a rich set of modern services, VMSF customers have to manually seek those from public sources, compile andA install them and then be solely responsible for their support and 1 finding out of there are flaws that need a patch.     F So, your argument that VMS has fewer patches can be turned against VMSG in many ways. I don't think it is really a good selling point. The lack E of patches from the onwer of VMS for VMS is really an indication that @ there isn't enough staff within VMS engineering to produce thoseG patches, not enough staff to load VMS with modern facilities as part of  the official distribution.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 00:02:40 -0400 ' From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>  Subject: RE: Patches and VMST Message-ID: <FA60F2C4B72A584DBFC6091F6A2B868401913577@tayexc19.americas.cpqcorp.net>   > -----Original Message-----9 > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com]=20   > Sent: August 23, 2006 11:24 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  > Subject: Patches and VMS >=20 > "Main, Kerry" wrote:D > > You obviously do not test all of your applications with the 5-20; > > *security* patches released *every* month for Linux.=20  >=20 >=20
 > Mr Main,=20  >=20H > Where a flaw was found in some jpeg routines, a patch was released forH > many operating systems. Was it for VMS ? NO. Why ? Because VMS doesn't > come with jpeg routines. >=20  
 [snip ...]  & I am talking about *security* patches.  D Huge difference in terms of the decision to release to production or not.=20   @ Most SysAdmin's do not hesitate to test their app's with the newF security patch and then plan to roll these out asap. When you get 5-20? security patches (not bug stuff) per month, the sheer volume of ; QA/testing effort with important apps becomes very painful.    Regards   
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant  HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660  Fax: 613-591-4477  kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20  4 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Aug 2006 19:15:51 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com - Subject: Re: Printing to a HP LaserJet 2605dn , Message-ID: <eci9h80152i@enews2.newsguy.com>  6 Gareth V. Williams <graff@cfa0.cfa.harvard.edu> wrote:F >   I decided that a reboot was in order.  After rebooting, e-mail wasH > again working, .LOG files from my Mersenne factor search contained theI > proper hostname and I could finally print my first file from VMS.  Yah!   L What are your thoughts on the printer?  The HP LaserJet 2605dn looks to be aM pretty good value, and I'm actually tempted to get one to replace my HP 5MP.  J I'd be primarily using it from Mac OS X and OpenVMS.  I like the fact thatI it's a networked printer that does duplexing, the fact it's colour, is an I added plus.  At the same time, the 5MP does just about everything I want,  and is well made.    		Zane   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 15:34:38 -0500 / From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com>  Subject: WWENG2.SYS * Message-ID: <4l3se4F59nqU1@individual.net>  : What is the latest CONDIST that had WWENG2.SYS?  (NA7xxx?)   Thanx!  H Please excuse me if this has already been answered, but I couldn't find  it in the archives.    --  G ----------------------------------------------------------------------- $ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  B Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com    Fax: 817-237-3074   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.470 ************************