1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 25 Aug 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 472       Contents:5 Re: A true pre-emptive multi-tasking operating system 5 Re: A true pre-emptive multi-tasking operating system 5 Re: A true pre-emptive multi-tasking operating system 5 Re: A true pre-emptive multi-tasking operating system  Re: Alpha remembrance day  Re: Alpha remembrance day  RE: Datatrieve/CDD protection  Freeware links broken? RE: Freeware links broken? Re: Freeware links broken? Re: Freeware links broken? Re: Freeware links broken? Re: Freeware links broken? Re: Freeware links broken? Re: Freeware links broken? Re: LBR$OPEN Re: Personal note - goodbye !  Re: Personal note - goodbye ! $ Re: Printing to a HP LaserJet 2605dn$ Re: Printing to a HP LaserJet 2605dn$ Re: Printing to a HP LaserJet 2605dn Re: Shadow set problem0 Thoughts on the book: DEC is dead, long live DEC Re: VMS in The DA  Re: VMS in The DA  Re: WWENG2.SYS Re: WWENG2.SYS Re: WWENG2.SYS Re: WWENG2.SYS Re: WWENG2.SYS Re: WWENG2.SYS Re: WWENG2.SYS. X-terminal connects get hosed, requires reboot2 Re: X-terminal connects get hosed, requires reboot2 Re: X-terminal connects get hosed, requires reboot  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 13:37:34 -0400 ( From: Bill Todd <billtodd@metrocast.net>> Subject: Re: A true pre-emptive multi-tasking operating systemG Message-ID: <2PWdnZp6mtxDfnDZnZ2dnUVZ_qmdnZ2d@metrocastcablevision.com>    Steven M. Schweda wrote:   ...   ) >    I won't waste any more time on this,   5 Good:  you've wasted more enough of our time already.   	   but ...  > I >    A graph of knowledge versus time does not have X and Y axes.  It has  > knowledge and time axes.  G You are the one who chose to define these as the two axes.  That is of  F course incorrect for the usage in question:  setting up an irrelevant G straw man so that you can knock it down is not a useful form of debate.    ...   J >    No, the _need_ to gain a bunch of knowledge does not set the shape of > the "learning curve".   H That is precisely what it does, because that's how the phrase as it was D used is defined.  When the amount of knowledge (plotted along the y F axis, or, for the sufficiently anal, the ordinate) required increases I much faster than the amount of practical skill gained (plotted along the  B x axis, with a similar observation) as one leaves the origin, the 3 resulting 'learning curve' is steep in that region.   I A quick Google search reveals the source of your confusion:  while other  E pedantic nincompoops have taken great pains to explain why the usage  G employed here "doesn't make sense", if you look at hits where the word  G 'steep' was *actually used* to qualify the phrase 'learning curve' you  H will find almost without exception that the combined construct was used D as it was here, and without any evidence that said usage was at all  difficult to understand.  G Language is not a static entity, much as pedants might wish otherwise.  E Some reasonable threshold to acceptance of new usage is necessary to  E prevent chaos, but once common usage has exceeded that threshold one  K should accept the situation with whatever grace one can muster and move on.    - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 15:18:23 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> > Subject: Re: A true pre-emptive multi-tasking operating system+ Message-ID: <44EDFB7E.4B7D470@teksavvy.com>    Bill Gunshannon wrote:< > So that's just one more shortcoming in MacOS, no surprise.  F Apple has always recognized that case sensitivity was a bad thing whenD you want to have an intuitive user interface. (aka: user friendly asG opposed to geekness). So while it preserved case in filenames, it isn't  sensitive to casing.  < So if you have "ChOcOlAtE.pDf" and your application asks forG "CHOCOLATE.PDF", then you get that file. This is the smart thing to do. ? Allowing multiple separate instances of the same file name with  different casing is stupid.   D However, Unix has had that tradition and most Unixes are maintainingD that tradition. Users get used to it. And as long as you don't startG creating files of the same name but with different casing, it isn't all H that bad, especially if you have a GUI front end where you just click on* file name and worry much less with casing.  G And in the end, waht is kore important is that Unix is more popular, it H sells more and because it is growing, ISVs are building applications for Unix and not for VMS.   H Having a better OS does not garantee success. Having a better OS  , withB competitive pricing AND marketing might give a chance for success.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 21:32:18 +0200 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> > Subject: Re: A true pre-emptive multi-tasking operating systemJ Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-2368C1.21321824082006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  0 In article <00A5AAFD.FC57AD3A@SendSpamHere.ORG>,"  VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:  L > In article <Pine.LNX.4.61.0608240858590.15690@localhost.localdomain>, Rob % > Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com> writes:  > >    > > ( > >      find ~ -iname nameserver -print >  > Same as in OS X. >    ...    > :  >      -iname pattern = >              Like -name, but the match is case insensitive.    Thanks for that info.    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 21:59:34 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> > Subject: Re: A true pre-emptive multi-tasking operating system9 Message-ID: <8pqdnRXSUOJCynPZnZ2dnUVZ_rednZ2d@libcom.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Bill Gunshannon wrote:= >> So that's just one more shortcoming in MacOS, no surprise.  > H > Apple has always recognized that case sensitivity was a bad thing whenF > you want to have an intuitive user interface. (aka: user friendly asI > opposed to geekness). So while it preserved case in filenames, it isn't  > sensitive to casing. > > > So if you have "ChOcOlAtE.pDf" and your application asks forI > "CHOCOLATE.PDF", then you get that file. This is the smart thing to do. A > Allowing multiple separate instances of the same file name with  > different casing is stupid.  > F > However, Unix has had that tradition and most Unixes are maintainingF > that tradition. Users get used to it. And as long as you don't startI > creating files of the same name but with different casing, it isn't all J > that bad, especially if you have a GUI front end where you just click on, > file name and worry much less with casing. > I > And in the end, waht is kore important is that Unix is more popular, it J > sells more and because it is growing, ISVs are building applications for > Unix and not for VMS.  > J > Having a better OS does not garantee success. Having a better OS  , withD > competitive pricing AND marketing might give a chance for success.  H In order to be popular, an OS must run on the hardware from most if not E all vendors.  Unix was an option for many small companies who didn't  I have the resources, or didn't want to dedicate the resources, to produce   an OS.  F Unix became popular while DEC was doing things like closed BI bus and C like minded things.  Too bad DEC didn't offer to help with Macro32  C compilers and BLISS compilers for other vendors, and get VMS to be  2 'sorta' universal, like Unix is 'sorta' universal.  G Yeah, most vendors have an x64 product line, before you go off on that   tangent again.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 15:29:04 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> " Subject: Re: Alpha remembrance day, Message-ID: <44EDFDFF.6FF8901B@teksavvy.com>  
 Andrew wrote: G > Of course it was about Alpha vs the competition. If there had been no I > competition then Alpha probably would have been a sucess. The fact that G > there was and the reasons why Alpha wasn't competitive go back to the 6 > core of this discussion.. What a bizarre suggestion.  A Alpha was competitive. Digital wasn't competitive. Digital didn't E market. Digital was in a downward spiral. Palmer was actively killing G Digital. Even if they had had an Alpha at 5ghz back i 1995 with 600gigs C of memory in a PC form factor and priced at $2000, I am not sure it G would have been a success because Digital wouldn't have marketed it and H people wouldn't know which OS to put on it. VMS users were first told toH migrate to Digital Unix, and then told to go NT, but NT didn't have many: apps on Alpha due to lack of growth and lack fo marketing.  C Digital continued to exist beyond 1987 because of momentum/steam of D previous years, and to show much much there was, it took 6 years for, Palmer to kill and already weakened Digital.  D > Since the thread was about the demise of Alpha which clearly isn't) > happening now, it has already happened    E This depends on viewpoints. Consider that for many years, despite the D June 21 2001 genocide announcement, Alpha had better sales than thatD IA64 contraption. HP is having to stop Alpha sales despite continued> demand in order to protect the image of the failed IA64 thing.  F Yes, it is a sign that that particular marketplace is now down to justD the remaining installed base who prefer to stick to Alpha instead of@ being forced to migrate (costly/time consuming exercise) to someF unwanted platform whose future is even more uncertain than Alpha's. SoF the VMS marketplace may not be so healthy. But Alphga still got enoughE steam in it to still be something worth selling despite it not longer  being developped.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 15:32:45 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> " Subject: Re: Alpha remembrance day, Message-ID: <44EDFED7.BF2B3782@teksavvy.com>  
 Andrew wrote: H > But the the TurboLaser never supported enough of CPU/Memory and I/O atG > the same time in the same box to make 64bit addressing for individual     G Note that initial Alpha may have been 64 bit capable, but the operating C systems weren't yet 64 bit capable, so there was really no point in F building machines configurable with huge amounts of memory when the OS couldn't support it.  E Digital Unix, as I recall was first to support 6 bits, VMS came later G (was it at some 6.* version or 7.* that true 64 bit support arrived for  VMS ?)  H So, initially, VMS ran on Alpha is pretty much the same way Windows runs, today on 64 bit 8086s. It only uses 32 bits.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 13:58:18 -0400 , From: <Barry.Treahy@EmersonNetworkPower.com>& Subject: RE: Datatrieve/CDD protectionM Message-ID: <63A4454BFCE1C048B2683DBB63A3633363C63F@ETP-CIN-US-EX01.etp1.com>   : Look in SYS$SYSTEM, there should be numerous CDDX%%% like:  9 CDDX043.EXE;3                 2158/2160      [VMS,SYSTEM]  (RWED,RWED,RWED,) 9 CDDX051.EXE;2                 3377/3384      [VMS,SYSTEM]  (RWED,RWED,RWED,) 9 CDDX053.EXE;2                 3463/3474      [VMS,SYSTEM]  (RWED,RWED,RWED,) 9 CDDX061.EXE;2                 3552/3555      [VMS,SYSTEM]  (RWED,RWED,RWED,) 9 CDDX070.EXE;2                 3641/3645      [VMS,SYSTEM]  (RWED,RWED,RWED,)   C Which are the conversion programs...  They should be your ticket...     ' Barry Treahy, Jr                    =20  Vice President/CIO Midwest Microwave, Inc. , Emerson Network Power Connectivity Solutions, E-mail: Barry.Treahy@EmersonNetworkPower.com Phone: 480/314-1320  Cell:     480/216-9568 Fax:     480/661-7028  =20 2                        ... but it's a DRY HEAT!=20   -----Original Message-----0 From: Rich Jordan [mailto:jordan@ccs4vms.com]=20' Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 9:48 AM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com & Subject: Re: Datatrieve/CDD protection  D Found at least part of the problem.  Initial docs indicated Rdb V7.1E would be acceptable, but we found after installation that in fact the E multiversion Rdb (all that is available in V7.1 and beyond) would not B work with numerous application builds that had hard codes in them.  > V7.1 was deinstalled, along with CDD, and V7.0a single version installed, and CDD reinstalled.   B The CDD$COMPATIBILITY database did not get rebuilt or recreated byF these installs, and apparently were not removed by the deinstall.  TheD root file version of CDD$COMPATIBILITY:CDD$DATABASE.RDB is Rdb V7.1.8 DMU doesn't complain, but CDO does report the Rdb error.  ? So... is there any way  to force a rebuild or reconstruction of @ CDD$COMPATIBILITY without (hopefully) deinstalling all the laterE layered products that sit on top of CDD (mainly DBMS and Datatrieve)? C I've been perusing the KITINSTAL.COM file for CDD but its more than @ slightly obtuse, and of course Oracle doesn't provide a means ofD downgrading a root file version from V7.1 to V7.0; only upgrades are
 supported.  G Thanks for any info.  I'm seeing if we can get a metalink connection to ) look to Oracle online for assistance too.    Rich   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Aug 2006 12:02:53 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> Subject: Freeware links broken? C Message-ID: <1156446173.070303.155670@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>   . Links on the following page don't work for me:    D http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware80/freeware/freeware.html  C For example, the first link on this page, Freeware Readme, which is   T http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware80/freeware/freeware/freeware_read_me.txt  G gives an HP page not found page (as do the others). It looks like there  is one too many freeware.   F I sent feedback about this yesterday, but it's still broken today. CanD anyone here verify my statements? Any hp people reading that can fix it?    TIA.   AEF    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 15:12:40 -0400 , From: "Zehel, Samuel M" <smzehel@switch.com># Subject: RE: Freeware links broken? N Message-ID: <3D7A5969DC27E747A85F69D1AFF86495016BF77A@exchptc2.uss.switch.com>  I I can confirm the second link for "Freeware READ ME" is broken, and the = ) first link has a link to the broken link.  =20 ! There seems to be a missing link.  =20  --=20 ) Samuel M. Zehel Jnr.          Engineer=20 # Automation & Information Systems=20 . Union Switch & Signal Inc. (ANSALDO SIGNAL)=20D                       A Finmeccancia Company 1000 Technology Drive = Pittsburgh, PA 15219-3120=20 Ph.: 412-688-2856=20 Fax: 412-688-2552=20$ E-mail: smzehel(at)switch(dot)com=20I Life at its noblest leaves mere happiness far behind; and indeed cannot = H endure it.... Happiness is not the object of life: life has no object: =B it is an end in itself; and courage consists in the readiness to =3 sacrifice happiness for an intenser quality of life  -George Bernard Shaw=20     ________________________________  ) From: AEF [mailto:spamsink2001@yahoo.com]  Sent: Thu 8/24/2006 3:02 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  Subject: Freeware links broken?       . Links on the following page don't work for me:    D http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware80/freeware/freeware.html  C For example, the first link on this page, Freeware Readme, which is   J http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware80/freeware/freeware/freeware_= read_me.txt   G gives an HP page not found page (as do the others). It looks like there  is one too many freeware.   F I sent feedback about this yesterday, but it's still broken today. CanD anyone here verify my statements? Any hp people reading that can fix it?    TIA.   AEF    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Aug 2006 12:26:18 -0700; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> # Subject: Re: Freeware links broken? B Message-ID: <1156447578.095017.17900@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>  
 AEF wrote:0 > Links on the following page don't work for me: >  > F > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware80/freeware/freeware.html > E > For example, the first link on this page, Freeware Readme, which is  > V > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware80/freeware/freeware/freeware_read_me.txt > I > gives an HP page not found page (as do the others). It looks like there  > is one too many freeware.  > H > I sent feedback about this yesterday, but it's still broken today. CanF > anyone here verify my statements? Any hp people reading that can fix > it?  >  > TIA. >  > AEF   C The main Freeware page  http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/freeware/ F has lost it's pointers to the Freeware8 section also.  I can still getB to the location via http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware80/ though.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 19:59:17 GMT ! From: hoffman@xdelta.hp.nospam () # Subject: Re: Freeware links broken? 0 Message-ID: <pynHg.212$Q_2.130@news.cpqcorp.net>  I   Those files are what I consider to be templates, and are part of a stub   E   And how did you get to these Freeware files?  Hopefully not via any : existing http navigation.  (That would be bad, after all.)    G |> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware80/freeware/freeware.html  |>F |> For example, the first link on this page, Freeware Readme, which is |>W |> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware80/freeware/freeware/freeware_read_me.txt  |>J |> gives an HP page not found page (as do the others). It looks like there |> is one too many freeware.      /   There is nothing broken, and nothing to fix.   I   Those files are what I consider to be templates, and are part of a stub I for a replacement menu system for the Freeware.  I haven't had the cycles H to update the existing procedures (to build those files, akin to what isB done for the construction and verification of rest of the FreewareH construction, and one of the engineers that had a few cycles contributedE those files as a prototype.  Rather than loose the files somewhere, I C tossed them where somebody -- you? -- could further assist with the ( replacement of the existing menu system.  D   I've blogged on a related topic not too long ago, and specificallyF mentioned the menu system and such.  <http://www.hp.com/blogs/hoffman>  F   If you wish to volunteer here and to write a menu system using Lynx,G poke around in the directory for how this all fits together.  And check / the contents of the recent Freeware blog entry.     F |> I sent feedback about this yesterday, but it's still broken today.   >   I'm not sure I could manage a one-day turn-around under mostE circumstances, as it can take rather longer for the wheels to grind    forward.  A   But in this case, the "fix" won't be forthcoming for a year or  D two -- if at all -- and certainly not likely before any unannounced  and future round of Freeware.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 20:02:01 GMT ! From: hoffman@xdelta.hp.nospam () # Subject: Re: Freeware links broken? / Message-ID: <ZAnHg.213$Q_2.61@news.cpqcorp.net>    In article <1156447578.095017.17900@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> writes:  F |> The main Freeware page  http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/freeware/I |> has lost it's pointers to the Freeware8 section also.  I can still get E |> to the location via http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware80/ 
 |> though.       Unrelated.  E   Apparently some re-loader ran, and I didn't quite enter the changes E correctly.  And now I have to figure out where it went off the rails, I and fix that -- and also ensure that anything that AEF might have kicked  C loose here with his quite reasonable email to web master about the  C contents of the Freeware disks doesn't run off the rails elsewhere.   "   Confusing, yes, but intentional.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 20:40:39 GMT  From: hoffman@hp.nospam ()# Subject: Re: Freeware links broken? 0 Message-ID: <b9oHg.215$V%2.153@news.cpqcorp.net>  S In article <ZAnHg.213$Q_2.61@news.cpqcorp.net>, hoffman@xdelta.hp.nospam () writes:     D   I've updated the web site [FREEWARE]FREEWARE.HTML file to indicateF its prototype status, I've updated the FREEWARE_README.TXT to call outG the prototype status of the HTML, and I (think I've) updated the links  F to the brief and to the full abstract lists on the main Freeware page,4 and I added a brief release note onto the main page.  "   Apologies on any confusion here.   E   Now if y'all will excuse me, it's time to crawl back under my rock.    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Aug 2006 16:55:48 -0700$ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com># Subject: Re: Freeware links broken? B Message-ID: <1156463748.695301.66320@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>   hoffman@xdelta.hp.nospam wrote: I > Those files are what I consider to be templates, and are part of a stub    OK  G >   And how did you get to these Freeware files?  Hopefully not via any < > existing http navigation.  (That would be bad, after all.)   First, go to   www.hp.com/go/openvms/freeware    Then, click the following links:  ( browse the freeware distributions (http)   freeware80/   	 freeware/   
 freeware.html    And you're there.   I > |> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware80/freeware/freeware.html  > |>H > |> For example, the first link on this page, Freeware Readme, which is > |>L > |> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware80/freeware/freeware/freewa= re_read_me.txt > |>L > |> gives an HP page not found page (as do the others). It looks like there > |> is one too many freeware. >  >  > 1 >   There is nothing broken, and nothing to fix.   @ OK, but that certainly wasn't evident when I reached the page in question. It is now.  K >   Those files are what I consider to be templates, and are part of a stub K > for a replacement menu system for the Freeware.  I haven't had the cycles J > to update the existing procedures (to build those files, akin to what isD > done for the construction and verification of rest of the FreewareJ > construction, and one of the engineers that had a few cycles contributedG > those files as a prototype.  Rather than loose the files somewhere, I E > tossed them where somebody -- you? -- could further assist with the * > replacement of the existing menu system. > F >   I've blogged on a related topic not too long ago, and specificallyH > mentioned the menu system and such.  <http://www.hp.com/blogs/hoffman> > H >   If you wish to volunteer here and to write a menu system using Lynx,I > poke around in the directory for how this all fits together.  And check 1 > the contents of the recent Freeware blog entry.  >  > G > |> I sent feedback about this yesterday, but it's still broken today.  > @ >   I'm not sure I could manage a one-day turn-around under mostE > circumstances, as it can take rather longer for the wheels to grind 
 > forward.  G Well, I didn't know it was up to you to fix. I wrote the Webmaster, not G you. I'd think broken links would be an important task for a Webmaster, D assuming the rest of the site is up and running smoothly, of course.  B >   But in this case, the "fix" won't be forthcoming for a year orE > two -- if at all -- and certainly not likely before any unannounced  > and future round of Freeware.   C I thought it was just a typo or something minor that could be fixed F quickly. I didn't know an entire menu system needs to be written. Yes,* I believe that would take more than a day!   OK   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 21:38:35 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> # Subject: Re: Freeware links broken? , Message-ID: <44EE549A.109277A6@teksavvy.com>   hoffman@hp.nospam wrote:G >   Now if y'all will excuse me, it's time to crawl back under my rock.   B So your office is now in the sub-basement of ZKO ? :-) :-) :-) :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 21:50:18 -0400 6 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> Subject: Re: LBR$OPEN * Message-ID: <uHsHg.4164$_q4.88@dukeread09>   wendzinski@yahoo.com wrote:  > wendzinski@yahoo.com wrote: A >> Thanks to everybody for their responses.  The problem was that D >> LBR$C_READ was not defined.  I assumed it was in an include file.1 >> Adding this line in the declarations fixed it:  >>& >> PARAMETER       LBR$C_READ      = 1 >>% >> Before that, the error status was:  >>+ >> %LBR-F-ILLCREOPT, illegal create options  >> >> -Tom  >  > I > Including the library definitions file also worked.  This is probably a  > better solution. >  >         INCLUDE '($LBRDEF)'   
 And maybe an:    	IMPLICIT NONE   as well.   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 22:32:32 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> & Subject: Re: Personal note - goodbye !9 Message-ID: <Pc2dnekOIPoFwnPZnZ2dnUVZ_oydnZ2d@libcom.com>    Guy Peleg wrote: > Dear community,  > L > I wanted to let you know that I have decided to leave HP (I chose to leave > onK > my own). I have been part of DEC/CPQ/HP for almost 10 years, 6 of them in  > VMS engineering.  E The way you wrote the above causes me some concern.  Particularly "I  * chose to leave on my own".  I can imagine:  ) 1) Layoffs in VMS engineering are coming.    2) The end of VMS development.   3) Whatever.  I Anything you care to expound upon, or, even to tell me I'm just too damn   suspicious?   9 Regardless, thanks for the efforts.  They are apriciated.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 22:50:44 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> & Subject: Re: Personal note - goodbye !, Message-ID: <44EE657F.163F7270@teksavvy.com>   Dave Froble wrote:J > Anything you care to expound upon, or, even to tell me I'm just too damn
 > suspicious?    Mister Frobble,   G Your questions are best asked at a bar, after the person has had enough C drinks to start to trust you and start to spill the beans.  In this G forum, such questions are perhaps not appropriate and you don't want to E force Guido into a difficult situation where he'd like to answer you, F but it wouldn't be appropriate for him to do so. And if the reality isG not kind to HP, you can bet that he will find a politically correct way 
 to answer it.   = Note that there have been many other senior guys who left VMS B engineering in the last couple of years to seek other carreers. SoF Guido's departure is not the first one. It just so happens that he wasC nice enough to tell us about it, whilst the others left quietly, or G advised only a few people privately that they were leaving. Or you find D out they have left because you attend a DECUS (or whatever name they> have this week) function and find representing a new employer.  B When people who have been there for an eternity leave now, even ifH totally on their own, you have to wonder why the new employer (HP) isn't6 managing to retain them. Brains are HP's true assets.   F And unless VMS management comes to us  (the users) to ask for help, weD cannot mount a campaign to help save VMS. And if VMS management sitsG there without doing anything while HP erodes VMS engineering one by one A and prevents VMS marketing etc, should we (the users) go over VMS G management's heads to work against VMS management to get HP to actively + change VMS management's strategy/policies ?    ------------------------------   Date: 24 Aug 2006 23:57:41 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com - Subject: Re: Printing to a HP LaserJet 2605dn , Message-ID: <ecledl01ei1@enews2.newsguy.com>   norm.raphael@metso.com wrote: E > What about TCO, the cost of ink cartridges and cost/per 1000 pages?  > What about power? L > Did you compare it to the Xerox Phaser series, for example, or any others?  G It's a LaserJet, it uses toner.  The black cartridges are rated at 2500 J pages and each of the three colours is rated at 2000.  I *assume* that oneL would need to replace B&W most often with standard printing.  The cartridgesL are on the spendy side, but not bad compared to an InkJet.  A coworker and IL calculated the cost out to about 15 cents per page (this doesn't include theK cost of the paper.  I believe a full set of cartridges will cost about $310  (the printer itself is $500).   L I've personally not compared it to anything, for one thing I haven't been inK the market for a new printer, but then I didn't realize something like this G is so cheap now.  I personally would stay away from Xerox, how is thier I support of alternative OS's these days?  I know how poor thier support of 	 Linux is.    		Zane   ------------------------------   Date: 25 Aug 2006 00:27:12 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com - Subject: Re: Printing to a HP LaserJet 2605dn , Message-ID: <eclg5001mq9@enews3.newsguy.com>  6 Gareth V. Williams <graff@cfa0.cfa.harvard.edu> wrote:J >   I love it!  And my wife loves it!  The duplexing and colo(u)r printingI > work wonderfully: the colo(u)rs are crisp (my wife's reaction on seeing H > the colo(u)rs on the config sheet was "Wow!").  If you have a need for > colo(u)r, go for it.  J Actually it's my wife loving it that I'm afriad of :^)  I can just imagine2 all the stuff she'd be printing out if we had one!   		Zane   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 22:35:19 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - Subject: Re: Printing to a HP LaserJet 2605dn 9 Message-ID: <Pc2dnegOIPqi_XPZnZ2dnUVZ_oydnZ2d@libcom.com>    healyzh@aracnet.com wrote:  8  > I personally would stay away from Xerox, how is thierK > support of alternative OS's these days?  I know how poor thier support of  > Linux is.  >  > 		Zane  I I've got to wonder if that's actually bad?  I guess if you're into Linux   it may be.  I'm not.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 10:56:12 -0700 , From: Ken Fairfield <my.full.name@intel.com> Subject: Re: Shadow set problem + Message-ID: <eckp7s$vqq$1@news01.intel.com>   5 On 8/17/2006 9:24 AM, briggs@encompasserve.org wrote: X > In article <op.tefnj9cvtte90l@hyrrokkin>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos-remove.com> writes:1 >> $42$DKA1200:  (HAFNER)  Online               1 D >> $42$DKA1300:  (HAFNER)  ShadowSetMember      0  (member of DSA0:) >> >> So I have two questions >>H >> 1.  To add the member back in, is it the same command that I use at   >> startup, viz.,  >> $     MOUNT  M >> DSA0:/CLUSTER/NOASSIST/INCLUDE/NOCOPY/SHADOW=($42$DKA1200:,$42$DKA1300:)   	 >> COMMON  > ( > You do not want the /NOCOPY qualifier. [...]   @ I think the point is that /INCLUDE /NOCOPY are quite appropriateE when doing mounts at system startup.  But one does need to understand ) why (I've posted on this in the past...).   @ When you actually want to initiate a shadow copy, e.g., by-hand,C you need to drop that qualifier.  Also, the /INCLUDE is superfluous A if you're specifying all the shadow members (it's nice if you use A just one member in the mount command, at startup, because it will ! add all the other valid members).   A Most of which Briggs said in his follow-up...but I just wanted to @ reinforce that the quote mount command is fine/good in a startup
 procedure.   	-Ken  --  6 I don't speak for Intel, Intel doesn't speak for me...  
 Ken Fairfield ! D1C Automation VMS System Support " who:   kenneth dot h dot fairfield where: intel dot com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 22:21:43 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 9 Subject: Thoughts on the book: DEC is dead, long live DEC , Message-ID: <44EE5EB4.1F371648@teksavvy.com>  C I finished reading it. The first half could have been condensed as:   E Olsen was hands-off type, let the engineers battle and decide between = themselves. This worked well initially, but ended up creating C independant kingdoms that where inter-kingdom communication was not E good. In mid 80s, Olsen became aware of this, but when he tried to do A something about it, he had lost power within the organisation and H couldn't force changes onto those independant kingdoms. When he tried toF reshape the management "matrix" in 1990-1992 period, the various kingsG didn't accept it. Seems to me that Oslen set himself up to lose control - by devolving power so much in the early days.   F From that book, seems that the only decisions where Olsen actually gotH involved were preventing development of PCs and pushing for the VAX 9000F at the expense of other projects.  (although I am sure he actually was3 more involveed than the book leads one to believe.)     H Gordon Bell was extremely well respected and he is the one who convincedB DEC to dump PDP and go for VAX/VMS. The author doesn't mention any@ battles to get this accepted, nor of any backlash from customersG (something even I was aware of). Were the top guys so detached from DEC 4 already ? Seems to me like this was a huge decision.  C When Gordon Bell left in 1983, it created a vacuum and there was no 5 longer true leadership within the engineering groups.   H Also, and perhaps indicative of the situation, the author seems confusedH about Alpha. At one point he discusses 3 separate projects competing forG funding (VAX 9000, Cuttler's Prism and Alpha). Later on, he mentions in G passing that Alpha picked up what was left of Prism.  Again, no mention H of any serious discussions about abandonning VAX and focusing on Alpha. F However, as a customer, when Alpha was presented, it seemed very clearG to me that Alpha would replace VAX, just like PowerPC would replace the G 68000 at Apple.  Did DEC ever actually formally make such a decision or E was Olsen expecting VAX to co-exist with Alpha for a very long time ?   H About the board: Up until the mid 1980s, the original venture capitalistF (General Doriot) was still on the board and still the mentor for Olsen> and vice versa. So Olsen never had to worry about the board ofF directors. When Doriot died, Olsen was left alone and new guys broughtG on the board who knew business but not technology, and supposedly Olsen  didn't relate well to them.   G Palmer had his kingdom of semiconductors which he built up as big as he 2 could. (read: Hudson FAB was part of his kingdom).  G Manufacturing wasn't too concerned about efficiency, and it seemed that H throughout DEC, money was no object and they were perfectly happy makingF high cost items as long as they were also high quality. There were tooC many plants around the world and no real central controls (remember  those independant kingdoms).  E It is interesting because from my point of view, DEC was seen as less D expensive as IBM, so my image in the mid 1980s was of a DEC that wasH more efficient than IBM while giving just as good quality. However, thisE book does outline how its history lead a Digital to become relatively E bloated when newcomers arrived on the scene with far more efficiency.   F When it was decided to battle IBM, DEC hired 26,800 new employees in aE short period of time. This didn't pan out, but those employees stayed G on, thus greatly lowering the sales/employee numbers and making it even 0 harder for DEC to compete. (this was mid 1980s).      C re: Palmer's renaming DEC to Digital: The author compares it to IBM & renaming itself to "International" :-)  = (aka: Digital Equipment Corporation -> Digital is the same as 3 International Business Machines -> International )      F The author acknowledges that when Gerstner took ovr IBM, IBM was in asF bad a shape as DEC.  Interestingly, I found Gerstner's book (ElephantsF can Dance) far more interesting than Schein's book, perhaps because itC outlines the resurrection of IBM instead of the period prior to the A palmer era at DEC when deep structural problems started to emerge  without any solutions.  H Interestingly, I could relate to Gerstner's book far more than Schein's,D just because of my relatively short experience working within a bankH (IBM all the way, they barely tolerated VMS there) and being in frequentC contact with one of the main IBM reps there. That made me extremely H aware of IBM's mentality and pitfalls. And it seems that Gerstner didn'tE take long to find this out once he took the job. In Schein's book, it E seems that top management were far more detached from what was really E happening and just left DEC on auto-pilot, trusting that each kingdom D would "do the right thing", and thus the author would have been also) detached from what was really happening.    D Schein left when Palmer got in, so the book is very scant on details= during the Palmer era.  But it does explain why Palmer had to C fire/replace many top managers (those who even refused to listen to E Olsen's attempts at changing management matrix), and why Palmer would H have had to change many parts of the DEC culture.  Of course, Palmer mayH have known what had to be fixed, but he probably made things much worse,7 whereas Gerstner succeeded at IBM in doing those tasks.   D While the book is quite long for what it contains and short of juicyE interesting details about DEC (more about generalities), it does make @ one wonder about how one can lose control over a large succesfulH corporation. And one has to wonder about companies like Yahoo and GoogleE who are growing by leaps and bounds and going in every direction they  can.    G Also, after reading this book, I think that writing to CEOs or even the C board is far more valuable than previously thought since it is very E likely that they are detached and isolated from all the bad news, and H skipping over all the management within the corporation to reach the top* guys is probably more important than ever.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 19:56:35 -0400 / From: "William Webb" <william.w.webb@gmail.com>  Subject: Re: VMS in The DAH Message-ID: <8660a3a10608241656x8dbf56fvd77392a2f6d40b8d@mail.gmail.com>  F On 24 Aug 2006 14:50:37 GMT, Bill Gunshannon <bill@cs.uofs.edu> wrote:< > Surprise, surprise.  I have actually seen a job posting by9 > The Department of the Army looking for someone with VMS < > experience (among many other requirements).  Of course, it= > is in the one last field that hasn't totally abandoned VMS, > > Healthcare.  And, it doesn't read like a conversion but like= > an ongoing maintenance/development operation.  Interesting.  >  > bill >  > --L > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h> >   F It's not so surprising- I've seen a number of such jobs- I think their application is called CHCS.   F The VA uses VMS, too- the New Orleans VA hospital restored its data in( Texas-- with no loss of data, naturlich.   WWWebb --  ! I'm no longer job-hunting, folks.   F Thanks to all those who expressed concern and sent me possibilities to investigate.   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Aug 2006 21:56:11 -0500- From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: VMS in The DA3 Message-ID: <yOylUPXKcPmz@eisner.encompasserve.org>   U In article <4l5sltFdn9oU1@individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:   < > Surprise, surprise.  I have actually seen a job posting by9 > The Department of the Army looking for someone with VMS < > experience (among many other requirements).  Of course, it= > is in the one last field that hasn't totally abandoned VMS, > > Healthcare.  And, it doesn't read like a conversion but like= > an ongoing maintenance/development operation.  Interesting.   @ Many employment ads for the Comprehensive Health Care System run@ on VMS by the US military come from consulting companies, so the% government connection is not obvious.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 18:44:08 +0200 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) Subject: Re: WWENG2.SYS ; Message-ID: <44edd758.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>   . Volker Halle <volker_halle@hotmail.com> wrote:F > if you are looking for WWENG2.SYS in a NA7xxx (DNAS) Kit, those have& > most likely never been on a CONDIST.    Not true, but it's been a while.  G DNAS 1.5 (UPI 0LWAA) was the last one included in a VAX ConDist in June  1995.    cu,    Martin --  <                         | Martin Vorlaender | OpenVMS rules!1  OpenVMS: Where do you  | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de D  want to BE today?      |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/8                         | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 15:34:25 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: WWENG2.SYS , Message-ID: <44EDFF3C.A250F062@teksavvy.com>  ! "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" wrote: ? > DECserver kit which I got from a CONDIST from in the 1993, 94 F > timeframe.  It has separate portions for both the 700 and the 900TM., > The download image provided is WWENG1.SYS   C I would be willing to check my condists to see what I have. Can you 6 provide me with a hint of what directory to look for ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 22:43:07 -0400 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  Subject: Re: WWENG2.SYS 9 Message-ID: <qO6dnZ9wk9aO_3PZnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d@libcom.com>    JF Mezei wrote: # > "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" wrote: @ >> DECserver kit which I got from a CONDIST from in the 1993, 94G >> timeframe.  It has separate portions for both the 700 and the 900TM. - >> The download image provided is WWENG1.SYS   > E > I would be willing to check my condists to see what I have. Can you 8 > provide me with a hint of what directory to look for ?  E DS7011.A;1                    144/144     [DFE]       (RWED,RWED,RE,) E DS7011.B;1                   3258/3258    [DFE]       (RWED,RWED,RE,) E DS9011.A;1                    126/126     [DFE]       (RWED,RWED,RE,) E DS9011.B;1                   3204/3204    [DFE]       (RWED,RWED,RE,)   G The above are from 1992, or earlier.  They contain WWENG1.SYS, not the   requested WWENG2.SYS.   # I'll also check some ConDist disks.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Aug 2006 19:46:01 -0700; From: "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com>  Subject: Re: WWENG2.SYS C Message-ID: <1156473961.779297.266770@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Dave Froble wrote: > JF Mezei wrote: % > > "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" wrote: B > >> DECserver kit which I got from a CONDIST from in the 1993, 94I > >> timeframe.  It has separate portions for both the 700 and the 900TM. . > >> The download image provided is WWENG1.SYS > > G > > I would be willing to check my condists to see what I have. Can you : > > provide me with a hint of what directory to look for ? > G > DS7011.A;1                    144/144     [DFE]       (RWED,RWED,RE,) G > DS7011.B;1                   3258/3258    [DFE]       (RWED,RWED,RE,) G > DS9011.A;1                    126/126     [DFE]       (RWED,RWED,RE,) G > DS9011.B;1                   3204/3204    [DFE]       (RWED,RWED,RE,)  > H > The above are from 1992, or earlier.  They contain WWENG1.SYS, not the > requested WWENG2.SYS.  > % > I'll also check some ConDist disks.  >  > --6 > David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450@ > Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com > DFE Ultralights, Inc.  > 170 Grimplin Road  > Vanderbilt, PA  15486   F That's exactly what I have also.  I don't think WWENG2.SYS was ever onG the CONDIST.  I think that came out directly from DN after the transfer G of the networking line.  However, if I am proven  wrong I'd love a copy  the install save sets.    John H. Reinhardt   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 23:12:44 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: Re: WWENG2.SYS , Message-ID: <44EE6AA6.5173086F@teksavvy.com>  ( Here is what I got from the Jan 1995 CD:  B     OpenVMS VAX January 1995 Software Product Library Master Index      E     Table_1-1_(Cont.)_January_1995_Master_Index______________________   E     Product_Name_______________Vers___UPI____Status_CD__Directory____   @     DECserver 200 for VMS      3.3    VCBAA         4   [DS2033]  A     DECserver 250 for VMS      2.0    VTMAA         4   [DS25020]   A     DECserver 300 for VMS      2.2A   VTUAA         4   [DS3A022]   @     DECserver 500/550 for VMS  2.2    03KAA         4   [DS5022]  A     DECserver 700 for VMS,     1.1B   XA5AA         4   [DS7A011]      ULTRIX, UNIX, and MS-DOS  A     DECserver 90 TL Software   1.1B   MJPAA         4   [DS9A011]   D If it was removed sometimes during 1995, I don't think it would have$ ever included a more recent version.    G And DS7A011 appears to be a minor update (or is it the same) as what Mr @ Frobble had included in his listing which had DS7011.x savesets.  D If this is something you want, then contact me privately at jfmezei  domain is vaxination period ca   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 04:57:14 +0200 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) Subject: Re: WWENG2.SYS ; Message-ID: <44ee670a.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>   . JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:# > "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" wrote:   >> FWIW I am now using the NA013@ >> DECserver kit which I got from a CONDIST from in the 1993, 94G >> timeframe.  It has separate portions for both the 700 and the 900TM. - >> The download image provided is WWENG1.SYS   > E > I would be willing to check my condists to see what I have. Can you 8 > provide me with a hint of what directory to look for ?  3 [NA013] was on disk 2 of the June 1994 AXP ConDist.   H On disk 5 of the June '94 VAX ConDist is [NA7013] which also appeared onF disk 1 of the March '95 VAX SPL Supplement. [NA7015] resides on disk 1E of the June '95 VAX SPL Supplement. But these apparently only carry a  DECserver 700 image.   cu,    Martin  G P.S.: I think I'll put up the database I built from the CD_CONTENTS.DAT  files online sometime. --  A So long, and thanks        | Martin Vorlaender  |  OpenVMS rules! 4 for all the books...       | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deG In Memoriam Douglas Adams  |   http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/ ;             1952-2001      | home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Aug 2006 22:08:31 -0700/ From: "Volker Halle" <volker_halle@hotmail.com>  Subject: Re: WWENG2.SYS C Message-ID: <1156482511.016735.303440@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>    Martin,    thanks for the info.  D 1995 precedes the CONDIST contents information available from HP at:  C http://h30266.www3.hp.com/masterindex/Consolidations_external.shtml   " And I really couldn't remember ;-)   Volker.    ------------------------------    Date: 24 Aug 2006 13:35:09 -0700' From: "tadamsmar" <tadamsmar@yahoo.com> 7 Subject: X-terminal connects get hosed, requires reboot B Message-ID: <1156451709.895846.76220@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>  ? I have a Alpha with 3 X-terminals on it (old Tektronix XP338s).   D But sometimes VMS gets in a state where it will not allow any of the= X-terminals to reconnect after I reset or power-up any of the F X-terminals.  Also, the window manager will not come up on the console so that I can log in.   @ I can still login to the Alpha from a VT type terminal.  And anyC X-terminal that are already running the windows manager still works D fine.  It's only when a restart any of the X-terminals that I cannot get back in.  2 If I reboot the Alpha, then the problem clears up.  E I wonder if there is a way to clear up the problem without rebooting.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 23:18:29 +0200 # From: "H Vlems" <hvlems@freenet.de> ; Subject: Re: X-terminal connects get hosed, requires reboot 4 Message-ID: <ecl4ul$1q8b$1@registered.motzarella.de>  ( Try restarting just  DECwindows instead.9 Off the top of my head: @sys$startup:decw$startup restart   4 "tadamsmar" <tadamsmar@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht< news:1156451709.895846.76220@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...A > I have a Alpha with 3 X-terminals on it (old Tektronix XP338s).  > F > But sometimes VMS gets in a state where it will not allow any of the? > X-terminals to reconnect after I reset or power-up any of the H > X-terminals.  Also, the window manager will not come up on the console > so that I can log in.  > B > I can still login to the Alpha from a VT type terminal.  And anyE > X-terminal that are already running the windows manager still works F > fine.  It's only when a restart any of the X-terminals that I cannot > get back in. > 4 > If I reboot the Alpha, then the problem clears up. > G > I wonder if there is a way to clear up the problem without rebooting.  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 21:37:04 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> ; Subject: Re: X-terminal connects get hosed, requires reboot , Message-ID: <44EE543F.4F88B000@teksavvy.com>   tadamsmar wrote:F > But sometimes VMS gets in a state where it will not allow any of the? > X-terminals to reconnect after I reset or power-up any of the H > X-terminals.  Also, the window manager will not come up on the console > so that I can log in.   A If you have an active session that is logged in, has the sesssion H manager running as well as apps, when the X-terminal goes away, the appsB and session don't automatically go away right away. (is there someF timeout value one could set for the client side of things (aka, on the" VMS side, not on the X-terminal ?)  F And as long as VMS sees a session and appls running on a WSAx: device,& it doesn't initiate the login process.  C For such a hung session, have you tried STOP/ID of the DECW$SESSION E associated to that user ?  Are you running the window manager off the G VMS side or something local to the X-terminal ? Note that when you kill G the window manager, the apps are still connected to the X-terminal, and B the app that had focus at the time is still functional, except allB windwo decorations are gone and you can't move the window anymore.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.472 ************************