1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 01 Dec 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 661       Contents:
 Re: Mentec
 Re: Mentec
 Re: Mentec
 Re: Mentec Re: Mentec US is gone! Re: Mentec US is gone! Re: Mentec US is gone! Re: OpenVMS Clustering Question ) OT: Loreena McKennitt has a new album out - Re: OT: Loreena McKennitt has a new album out - Re: OT: Loreena McKennitt has a new album out - Re: OT: Loreena McKennitt has a new album out  Re: recursive copy in VMS  Re: recursive copy in VMS  Re: recursive copy in VMS  Re: recursive copy in VMS # Suggestion for TYPE (output pacing) ' Re: Suggestion for TYPE (output pacing) ' Re: Suggestion for TYPE (output pacing) ' Re: Suggestion for TYPE (output pacing) ' Re: Suggestion for TYPE (output pacing) ' Re: Suggestion for TYPE (output pacing) 4 Re: Thoughts on the book: DEC is dead, long live DEC4 Re: Thoughts on the book: DEC is dead, long live DEC! Re: VAX 11/730 SABACKUP questions ! Re: VAX 11/730 SABACKUP questions ! Re: VAX 11/730 SABACKUP questions ! Re: VAX 11/730 SABACKUP questions   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 07:54:43 -0700, From: David D Miller <ddmiller@raytheon.com> Subject: Re: Mentec V Message-ID: <OFD1D72C85.1A261DBF-ON07257237.0051CC53-07257237.0051D682@mck.us.ray.com>   Stanley F. Quayle wrote:G > www.mentec-inc.com, the link to the US Mentec site, is gone.  They've H > apparently closed their US office.  www.mentec.com is their world-wide2 > site, but there's no mention of PDP-11 anywhere. >   E There is always StrobeData:: http://www.strobedata.com/home/home.html    dave.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 10:55:50 -0500 2 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com> Subject: Re: Mentec ; Message-ID: <45700A36.24947.3CF2DA1@squayle.insight.rr.com>   , On 1 Dec 2006 at 7:54, David D Miller wrote:G > There is always StrobeData:: http://www.strobedata.com/home/home.html   B Unless it's changed, Mentec owns all the PDP-11 operating systems.  D Heck, there's a PDP-11 emulator from SRI [Shameless Plug Alert(tm)} @ and one from Logical Co.  But if you can't get the OS and tools 
 anymore...  
 --Stan Quayle  Quayle Consulting Inc.  
 ----------8 Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  Toll free: 1-888-I-LUV-VAX3 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA < stan-at-stanq-dot-com   http://www.stanq.com/charon-vax.html) "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option"    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 10:15:47 -0700, From: David D Miller <ddmiller@raytheon.com> Subject: Re: Mentec V Message-ID: <OF7E93BD42.7E1AF298-ON07257237.005EB74B-07257237.005EC0B7@mck.us.ray.com>   Stan:   ) I never knew that .. thanks for the data.    dave.   I "Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com> wrote on 12/01/2006 08:55:50  AM:   . > On 1 Dec 2006 at 7:54, David D Miller wrote:I > > There is always StrobeData:: http://www.strobedata.com/home/home.html  > D > Unless it's changed, Mentec owns all the PDP-11 operating systems. > E > Heck, there's a PDP-11 emulator from SRI [Shameless Plug Alert(tm)} A > and one from Logical Co.  But if you can't get the OS and tools  > anymore... >  > --Stan Quayle  > Quayle Consulting Inc. >  > ----------: > Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  Toll free: 1-888-I-LUV-VAX5 > 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA > > stan-at-stanq-dot-com   http://www.stanq.com/charon-vax.html+ > "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option"  >  >    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Dec 2006 09:48:48 -0800  From: paco.linux@gmail.com Subject: Re: Mentec C Message-ID: <1164995328.834971.171180@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Hi  < In the home page of simh you can get some OS for the pdp-11:  : -RT-11 V4 for the PDP-11 (under license provided by Mentec
 Corporation). < -RT-11 V5.3 for the PDP-11 (under license provided by Mentec
 Corporation). A -RSTS/E V7 distribution system and RSTS/E prebuilt system for the 6 PDP-11 (under license provided by Mentec Corporation).  / are you sayin this  soft is near to dissapear ?    Paco  F On Dec 1, 4:55 pm, "Stanley F. Quayle" <squa...@insight.rr.com> wrote:. > On 1 Dec 2006 at 7:54, David D Miller wrote: >  > > There is always StrobeData::http://www.strobedata.com/home/home.htmlUnless it's changed, Mentec owns all the PDP-11 operating systems. > E > Heck, there's a PDP-11 emulator from SRI [Shameless Plug Alert(tm)} A > and one from Logical Co.  But if you can't get the OS and tools  > anymore... >  > --Stan Quayle  > Quayle Consulting Inc. >  > ----------: > Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ  Toll free: 1-888-I-LUV-VAX5 > 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH  43147  USA = > stan-at-stanq-dot-com  http://www.stanq.com/charon-vax.html + > "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option"    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Dec 2006 08:21:17 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)  Subject: Re: Mentec US is gone! 3 Message-ID: <FCOJLa7PhbZa@eisner.encompasserve.org>   p In article <1164912722.187382.26570@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Stanley F. Quayle" <quayle@pobox.com> writes: > 6 > Maybe this is a sign that PDP-11 is *really* gone...  2    Nope, there's still one sitting in my basement.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 18:01:05 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com  Subject: Re: Mentec US is gone! 0 Message-ID: <87y7ps3pge.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  3 bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:   , > Wait.....   I'll look out the window......  " > Nope, no pigs flying by yet.....  * But Pigs don't use PDP-11s, Bugs use them.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 10:32:34 -0600 + From: Charles Richmond <richchas@tx.rr.com>  Subject: Re: Mentec US is gone! ) Message-ID: <45705922.ED2BC00A@tx.rr.com>    Bill Gunshannon wrote: > D > In article <1164914470.989851.318890@80g2000cwy.googlegroups.com>,G >         "johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com" <johnhreinhardt@yahoo.com> writes:  > >  > > Stanley F. Quayle wrote:J > >> www.mentec-inc.com, the link to the US Mentec site, is gone.  They'veK > >> apparently closed their US office.  www.mentec.com is their world-wide 5 > >> site, but there's no mention of PDP-11 anywhere.  > >> > > B > > www.mentec-inc.com gives me an "Under Construction" page whileJ > > www.mentec.com gives me a server error.  As far as I remember the main) > > site never did mention the PDP stuff.  > > 9 > >> Maybe this is a sign that PDP-11 is *really* gone...  > > G > > Maybe this means Mentec might be open to discussions about a PDP-11  > > Hobbyist program again.  > , > Wait.....   I'll look out the window...... > " > Nope, no pigs flying by yet..... > 7 It *is* getting kinda cold now...maybe hell is starting  to freeze over...    --B +----------------------------------------------------------------+B |   Charles and Francis Richmond     richmond at plano dot net   |B +----------------------------------------------------------------+   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Dec 2006 06:41:03 -0800 - From: "Andrew" <andrew_harrison@symantec.com> ( Subject: Re: OpenVMS Clustering QuestionB Message-ID: <1164984063.300714.302280@80g2000cwy.googlegroups.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:u > In article <1164971111.201216.106880@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Andrew" <andrew_harrison@symantec.com> writes:  > >  > > David J Dachtera wrote:  > >> M White wrote:  > >> >P > >> > It's been awhile since I worked with OpenVMS clustering.  Do they have itQ > >> > now so if one node goes down the processes on the downed node get switched Q > >> > to the remaining node(s) without manually logging into the remaining node?  > >>G > >> If you can develop that technology, you'll be the next Bill Gates.  > >> > > % > > Why develop what already exists ?  > > F > > Lets take the most commonly used Enterprise Application deployment! > > infrastructure J2EE + Oracle.  > > > > > The J2EE applications server tier can provide exactly thisJ > > functionality if the server hosting your session fails because the AppH > > server tier replicates state across the app tier servers. Sun's J2EEE > > implementation uses a Clustra Database to do this, other J2EE app : > > servers use different mechanisms to do the same thing. > $ > So my text editor will fail over ?  C No but then providing an infrastructure that is resilient enough to A keep your text editor running without interruption is probably of : marginal benefit and certainly would not justify the cost.  E High availability cost's regardless of platform and people make their C choices based on cost of downtime, cost of providing HA and risk. I G doubt that many people would include HA text editing in a category that ) met the cost, cost and risk requirements.    Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 08:00:29 -0500/ From: "William Webb" <william.w.webb@gmail.com> 2 Subject: OT: Loreena McKennitt has a new album outI Message-ID: <8660a3a10612010500h2f0e2577s5e4be7ccbedbe266@mail.gmail.com>   C Forgive the post, but somebody who posts or used to post here had a C line from one of her songs as a tagline, and I thought that if they + were still around they'd like to hear this.   K I have heard her on National Public Radio's "Thistle and Shamrock" program.   < http://www.quinlanroad.com/explorethemusic/anancientmuse.asp  N This woman is a gifted songwriter and musician who has an extraordinary voice.   WWWebb   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Dec 2006 14:09:18 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)6 Subject: Re: OT: Loreena McKennitt has a new album out0 Message-ID: <4tarceF13frllU1@mid.individual.net>  I In article <8660a3a10612010500h2f0e2577s5e4be7ccbedbe266@mail.gmail.com>, 2 	"William Webb" <william.w.webb@gmail.com> writes:E > Forgive the post, but somebody who posts or used to post here had a E > line from one of her songs as a tagline, and I thought that if they - > were still around they'd like to hear this.  > M > I have heard her on National Public Radio's "Thistle and Shamrock" program.  > > > http://www.quinlanroad.com/explorethemusic/anancientmuse.asp > P > This woman is a gifted songwriter and musician who has an extraordinary voice. >   C I'll second that, but then, maybe it's just my Irish heritage.  :-)   1 Of course, I would say the same of Delores Keane.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 1 Dec 2006 17:41:19 +0100 R From: pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU, DTI Athis ex CENA, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40)6 Subject: Re: OT: Loreena McKennitt has a new album out! Message-ID: <2WjPqyGfRzig@sinead>   { In article <8660a3a10612010500h2f0e2577s5e4be7ccbedbe266@mail.gmail.com>, "William Webb" <william.w.webb@gmail.com> writes: E > Forgive the post, but somebody who posts or used to post here had a E > line from one of her songs as a tagline, and I thought that if they - > were still around they'd like to hear this.  > M > I have heard her on National Public Radio's "Thistle and Shamrock" program.  > > > http://www.quinlanroad.com/explorethemusic/anancientmuse.asp > P > This woman is a gifted songwriter and musician who has an extraordinary voice.  G Yes, she's really nice, I like the Celtic/Medieval/Mediterranean style.   N Another great celtic bands (to be really OT): Lunasa, Shantalla, Gaelic Storm,A Capercaille (ah, Karen Matheson singing in Scottish Gaelic ....).   " Feel free to continue the list ...   Patrick  --O =============================================================================== N pmoreau@ath.cena.fr              ______      ___   _          (Patrick MOREAU)4 DSNA/DTI/SDER (ex CENA)         / /   /     / /|  /|J Athis-Mons France              / /___/     / / | / |   __   __   __   __  N BP 205                        / /         / /  |/  |  |  | |__| |__  |__| |  |N 94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX    / /   ::    / /       |  |__| | \  |__  |  | |__|N http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/              http://membres.lycos.fr/pmoreau/O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Dec 2006 18:47:22 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)6 Subject: Re: OT: Loreena McKennitt has a new album out0 Message-ID: <4tbblqF132a4rU1@mid.individual.net>  ! In article <2WjPqyGfRzig@sinead>, U 	pmoreau@ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU, DTI Athis ex CENA, Tel: 01.69.57.68.40) writes: } > In article <8660a3a10612010500h2f0e2577s5e4be7ccbedbe266@mail.gmail.com>, "William Webb" <william.w.webb@gmail.com> writes: F >> Forgive the post, but somebody who posts or used to post here had aF >> line from one of her songs as a tagline, and I thought that if they. >> were still around they'd like to hear this. >>  N >> I have heard her on National Public Radio's "Thistle and Shamrock" program. >>  ? >> http://www.quinlanroad.com/explorethemusic/anancientmuse.asp  >>  Q >> This woman is a gifted songwriter and musician who has an extraordinary voice.  > I > Yes, she's really nice, I like the Celtic/Medieval/Mediterranean style.  > P > Another great celtic bands (to be really OT): Lunasa, Shantalla, Gaelic Storm,C > Capercaille (ah, Karen Matheson singing in Scottish Gaelic ....).  > $ > Feel free to continue the list ... >    Silly Wizard   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 1 Dec 2006 08:18:17 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) " Subject: Re: recursive copy in VMS3 Message-ID: <ylopHjj0S+$z@eisner.encompasserve.org>   h In article <c9e95$456f4dda$cef8887a$11425@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes: > L > In my case, making a mistake in the backup command resulting in a request J > to copy a whole directory tree resulting in a flat directory output has 2 > happened often and it is a real pain to cleanup.  D    Then stop making that mistake.  You can learn from your mistakes,
    can't you?    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 15:35:02 GMT ' From: jls <jeffls-nospam@sbcglobal.net> " Subject: Re: recursive copy in VMS8 Message-ID: <mni0n29klfq5gul4mlk0ikangkc1lfoajs@4ax.com>  , On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 23:38:15 -0500, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:    >AEF wrote: I >> What BACKUP command did you expect would restore a tree to a tree that D >> didn't include the ellipsis wildcard (aside from BACKUP/IMAGE and >> BACKUP/PHYSICAL, of course)?  > L >The problem is that you need the ... at both ends, and that isn't natural. F >If you forget it in the destination, then you end up with a big mess. > F >And if you do BACKUP [.recipes...]*.*  disk:[chocolate...]  it isn't H >obvious if the tree will be replicated under [chocolate.recipes...] or  >under [chocolate...]  > 8 >This is stuff that a MAC used never has to worry about.  E I've used several backup tools over the years, each has this problem. D And each's approach can be considered "intuitive".  You just have toC learn the "intuitiveness" of the respective developers.  In the VMS F BACKUP case, what you enter in the first parameter will be replaced by  what is in the second parameter.  B Thus, entering BACKUP [.RECIPES...] disk:[MY.DIR...] will take all= files under [.recipes] and copy them over, but NOT create the  recipes.dir file.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 15:38:52 GMT ' From: jls <jeffls-nospam@sbcglobal.net> " Subject: Re: recursive copy in VMS8 Message-ID: <hui0n21kt1arqmpc6930g9ag7sjt1gcn65@4ax.com>  E On 1 Dec 2006 08:17:28 -0600, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org  (Bob Koehler) wrote:  i >In article <c9e95$456f4dda$cef8887a$11425@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:  >>  L >> OK, then tell me how many times in your life you have wanted to copy all 7 >> files from a directory TREE onto a single directory.  > H >   That is irrelavent.  I've done it more than once and once is enough.G >   Meanwhile BACKUP's behaviour should not be unecessarily changed, it   >   breaks upward compatability.  F One thing that I will say is counterintuitive with VMS BACKUP is that,E when you BACKUP DISK:[*...] DISK2:[*...], the utility does (did?) not E copy the protections of all the .dir files in the [000000] (MFD).  It D copied the security of all files under the [*] directories fine, butC instead, it just createe the directories on the output disk for the  MFD directories.  B I had to learn this the hard way.  From then on, I always used two steps:  > BACKUP DISK1:[000000]*.DIR DISK2:[000000]*.*/BY_OWNER=ORIGINAL5 BACKUP DISK1:[*...]*.* DISK2:[*...]/BY_OWNER=ORIGINAL   B I don't know if this functionality was ever changed (imho, fixed), though.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2006 01:25:41 +0800  From: prep@prep.synonet.com " Subject: Re: recursive copy in VMS0 Message-ID: <87u00f4jfu.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>  / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:    > Michael D. Ober wrote:2 >> Bob, you just got baited by JF - a known troll.  F > OK, then tell me how many times in your life you have wanted to copy: > all files from a directory TREE onto a single directory.  ' More often than I've bothered to count!    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076* comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.F EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 04:47:00 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> , Subject: Suggestion for TYPE (output pacing)8 Message-ID: <e29ff$456ffa02$cef8887a$10495@TEKSAVVY.COM>  G With graphics cards and serial/IP links getting faster and faster, too  K often, the TYPE command produces output that is just too fast and consumes  H the DECTERM's buffer too quickly which means that by the time you press 5 HOLD-SCREEN, you've already lost the top of the file.    Suggestion:    TYPE/PACING=<number>  F Where <number> would be some time value where the TYPE command pauses I between each line that has been outputted. This would slow down the TYPE  3 command and allow one to better control the output.   F Added suggestion: If the above is implemented, the + and - keys would H reduce or augment the pause between lines to quicken or slow the output L rate. So you could dynamically change the output rate to slow down in areas G of interest and then quicken the output to skip boring parts of a file.    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Dec 2006 05:41:56 -0800  From: sampsal@gmail.com 0 Subject: Re: Suggestion for TYPE (output pacing)C Message-ID: <1164980516.025157.199130@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>   G Maybe I'm missing something, but what is wrong with TYPE/PAGE? That way & you get a screenful of text at a time.   Sampsa   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Dec 2006 06:00:01 -0800  From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk0 Subject: Re: Suggestion for TYPE (output pacing)B Message-ID: <1164981601.701913.195250@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com>  D TYPE/PAGE was my initial response, but I'm not sure that was what JFG was getting at - browsing a file would probably be a better description # of what I think JF was thinking of.   < It's a nice idea, but there are other ways around the issue: - TYPE/PAGE (as already stated) D - DECterm's buffer - it can go up to 999 lines IIRC so unless it's a VERY long file...  - edit the file   D With a real VT420, the scroll speed was "variable" in the context ofE being a jump scroll (fast) versus a smooth scroll (which was slower). A Maybe you need a DECserver and a VT JF?  I could do you a deal...    Steve    sampsal@gmail.com wrote:I > Maybe I'm missing something, but what is wrong with TYPE/PAGE? That way ( > you get a screenful of text at a time. >  > Sampsa   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Dec 2006 08:27:57 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 0 Subject: Re: Suggestion for TYPE (output pacing)3 Message-ID: <HLyWv$iRfHFr@eisner.encompasserve.org>   h In article <e29ff$456ffa02$cef8887a$10495@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:I > With graphics cards and serial/IP links getting faster and faster, too  M > often, the TYPE command produces output that is just too fast and consumes  J > the DECTERM's buffer too quickly which means that by the time you press 7 > HOLD-SCREEN, you've already lost the top of the file.  > 
 > Suggestion:  >  > TYPE/PACING=<number>  2    VMS has it now (actually for over two decades):        $  TYPE/PAGE   E    And of course, any real VT and most emulators have a smooth-scroll >    option which is just about exactly what you're looking for.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 10:18:33 -0500) From: "Ken Robinson" <kenrbnsn@gmail.com> 0 Subject: Re: Suggestion for TYPE (output pacing)H Message-ID: <7dd80f60612010718y47267d33ob0dfa9702c87cd3d@mail.gmail.com>  = On 1 Dec 2006 08:27:57 -0600, Bob Koehler >    VMS has it now   (actually for over two decades): >  >      $  TYPE/PAGE  > G >    And of course, any real VT and most emulators have a smooth-scroll @ >    option which is just about exactly what you're looking for.  E And if you use the keywords scroll and save on the "/page" qualifier, A then you can page backwards in the file using the prev/next keys.    I usually set up   $ more :== typ/pag=(sc,sa)  4 Which is sort of like the UNIX/Linux "more" command.   Ken    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 13:01:18 -0500 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> 0 Subject: Re: Suggestion for TYPE (output pacing): Message-ID: <U9mdnTq2e7Zs8O3YnZ2dnUVZ_vadnZ2d@comcast.com>   JF Mezei wrote:   I > With graphics cards and serial/IP links getting faster and faster, too  D > often, the TYPE command produces output that is just too fast and I > consumes the DECTERM's buffer too quickly which means that by the time  A > you press HOLD-SCREEN, you've already lost the top of the file.  > 
 > Suggestion:  >  > TYPE/PACING=<number> > H > Where <number> would be some time value where the TYPE command pauses K > between each line that has been outputted. This would slow down the TYPE  5 > command and allow one to better control the output.  > H > Added suggestion: If the above is implemented, the + and - keys would J > reduce or augment the pause between lines to quicken or slow the output H > rate. So you could dynamically change the output rate to slow down in J > areas of interest and then quicken the output to skip boring parts of a  > file.    How about TYPE /PAGE   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Dec 2006 03:23:31 -0800 - From: "Andrew" <andrew_harrison@symantec.com> = Subject: Re: Thoughts on the book: DEC is dead, long live DEC B Message-ID: <1164972211.093072.201560@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com>   Paul Sture wrote: A > In article <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-EU4BBohVt2nL@dave2_os2.home.ours>, 6 >  "Dave Weatherall" <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow> wrote: > D > > When you emulate/clone something, it's always useful to have theG > > original to test against. Plus, you learn a lot more about how it's ) > > done when you re-implement something.  > . > Wasn't cloning an IBM PC how Compaq started? >   F Sort of, the first computer produced by Compaq was a portable PC whichE was fully compatible with an IBM PC. It used a clone of the IBM BIOS. C It wasn't until 1985, 3 years after the Compaq Portable launch that F Compaq introduced the first Deskpro desktop server designed to compete directly with IBM.  G The Phoenix BIOS which was reverse engineered from the IBM BIOS was the D subject of a court case between IBM and Compaq which established theC legality of reverse engineering code contained in firmware when IBM > lost. That loss opened the flood gates for other PC compatibleC manufacturers and was one key contributor to the creation of the PC  market.    Regards  Andrew Harrison    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 15:27:52 GMT ' From: jls <jeffls-nospam@sbcglobal.net> = Subject: Re: Thoughts on the book: DEC is dead, long live DEC 8 Message-ID: <7ei0n299vic3k251075laahfso43gfo59o@4ax.com>  E On 1 Dec 2006 03:23:31 -0800, "Andrew" <andrew_harrison@symantec.com>  wrote:  H >The Phoenix BIOS which was reverse engineered from the IBM BIOS was theE >subject of a court case between IBM and Compaq which established the D >legality of reverse engineering code contained in firmware when IBM? >lost. That loss opened the flood gates for other PC compatible D >manufacturers and was one key contributor to the creation of the PC >market.  F I don't know why, but this brought the following words to mind:  "ThisA made a lot of people angry, and has been widely regarded as a bad  idea."   LOL    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 11:39:09 GMT ' From: ChrisQuayle <nospam@devnul.co.uk> * Subject: Re: VAX 11/730 SABACKUP questions4 Message-ID: <xvUbh.730$d14.220@newsfe4-win.ntli.net>   Chris Scheers wrote: > G > I'm aware of these.  If there is an incantation to get a 730 to boot  I > from a 9-track, I would like to know what it is.  "BOOT MTA0" will NOT   > work.  > D > The only documented way to boot SABACKUP on a 730 that I can find I > requires booting it from a disk.  Generally this means a TU58 set or a  F > copy installed on the system disk.  Since the system disk had to be D > replaced, that copy is gone and now they can't find the TU58 copy. > K > I need a way to boot SABACKUP so I can restore a disk image.  Then I can  ) > have SABACKUP on the system disk again.  > ! > It's a chicken and egg problem.  >    Chris,   Thanks for the email.   F Other devices can be booted, but the tu58 must load the cpu microcode H first. Then depending on what command files you set up on the tu58, you B can boot from any supported device. I'm pretty sure that mu class H devices (9 track, tk50 etc) are supported, as well as stuff like RL01/2.  G Memory is hazy, but I think the the boot sequence goes as follows: The  F monitor first loads the cpu microcode, then runs some diags using the I loaded instruction set on itself and then tests memory. Then, vmb.exe is  F loaded from tu58 into memory before calling vmb to boot the specified I device. Once vmb.exe is loaded, you probably find that any vms supported  H device can be booted, even if not *officially* supported on the machine.  G There is enough functionality on the 730 console monitor to be able to  G copy files from one tu58 to another, so you could replace the r80 boot  H stuff with rl, du or mu boot. It's painfully slow, but does work. Don't E remember the runes, but it's all explained in the 730 docs and istr,  G there's quite a bit of info in older vms install manuals. If you don't  G have the docs, bitsavers.org has some 730 related stuff which might be  H worth a look. Will check what I have left here as well in the meantime. H The other thing I have is a tu58 tape set up to boot a du class device, @ (RAxx etc) but it would mean installing a uda50 + Ra drives, or @ equvalent from Emulex or Dilog etc. Finally, there was a unibus F controller for tk50, so you could put one of these in temporarily and H boot from tk50. I alsmost certainly still have tk50 5.4 stabackup tapes  and vms 5.4 install media.  F One *key* thing to check on old 730's is the state of the tu58 rubber E wheels. They can dissolve over time into a black glue like mess that  F destroys tapes. Worth checking that they ok before inserting valuable  media...   Chris    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 11:48:48 GMT ' From: ChrisQuayle <nospam@devnul.co.uk> * Subject: Re: VAX 11/730 SABACKUP questions4 Message-ID: <AEUbh.854$_74.385@newsfe1-win.ntli.net>   Jeff Campbell wrote: >  > A > A good friend of mine who is no longer with us had a 730 in his , > laundry room, next to the washing machine. > 0 > It's DECNET name was MAYTAG::, of course!  8-) >   D Of course, what else ?, with the R80 set for synchronised action on ) every spin cycle, one would assume :-)...    Chris    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Dec 2006 08:25:22 -0600 ; From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) * Subject: Re: VAX 11/730 SABACKUP questions3 Message-ID: <RwRd9oma4Tfy@eisner.encompasserve.org>   j In article <f8fvm2t2df8l2h8j3tdmtn0o8041k1cmcr@4ax.com>, rvfulltime <rvfulltime@_removeme_isp.com> writes:  2 >  I am not aware that SABACKUP could be on a TU58I > media.   As far as I know you'll need to find someone that can make you  > an RL02 with SABACKUP.  G    I've booted an 11/750 STABACKUP from TU58 once, and 11/780 STABACKUP C    from floppies many times.  While I've never had an 11/730 I'd be B    quite surprised if it can't boot STABACKUP from TU58.  The OP's0    problem is in getting a copy on TU58 or RL02.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 12:58:46 -0500 3 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> * Subject: Re: VAX 11/730 SABACKUP questions: Message-ID: <U9mdnTu2e7bL8O3YnZ2dnUVZ_vadnZ2d@comcast.com>   rvfulltime wrote:   V > On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 20:23:53 -0600, Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> wrote: >  >  >>rvfulltime wrote:  >>W >>>On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 23:22:48 -0600, Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> wrote:  >>>  >>> C >>>>I need some help from the way back machine.  (Old farts unite!)  >>>>L >>>>I have a client with an IDC 11/730 (R80/RL02/TU80).  They don't want to  >>>>replace it.  >>>>K >>>>The system disk (R80) died and has been replaced.  Now they can't find   >>>>their SABACKUP media.  >>>>J >>>>What are my options here?  I know how to boot SABACKUP from a TU58 or O >>>>RL02, but I don't have a machine that I can use to generate media for them.  >>>>M >>>>Is there a way to boot a 730 from the TU80?  If so, could some kind soul  2 >>>>provide me with the relevant console commands? >>>>J >>>>With a DEUNA, is there a way to boot a 730 as a satellite?  How about  >>>  >>>>from an Infoserver?  >>> F >>>>If, as I suspect, I am out of luck on these alternate methods, is K >>>>someone set up to generate SABACKUP media on TU58 or RL02?  The target  E >>>>OS is VMS 5.4, but I think any 5.2 or later SABACKUP should work.  >>>>
 >>>>Thanx! >>> M >>>I owned one of two of these critters a while ago.  The 730 is too dumb and M >>>stupid to hardware boot any device other than the TU58.  It actually loads O >>>the microcode from the TU58 tape.  Once it does that, it boots the disk.  In R >>>fact, if I remember correctly, there are multiple files on the tape that can beJ >>>loaded, depending upon which disk you wanted to boot.  Placing the bootS >>>file for this disk you want to boot at the front of the tape can reduce the time P >>>it takes to load the tape by up to 2 or 3 minutes.  I'm afraid you'll need to7 >>>find someone that can loan you their boot TU58 tape.  >>> K >>>It must have been a long time since you powered off that 730.  Next time 5 >>>leave the TU58 cartdrige in the drive.  Good luck.  >> >>I >>The microcode and console tapes are available.  As mentioned, they are   >>kept in the machine. >>H >>What is missing is the TU58 SABACKUP tape set.  Normally, this is not L >>kept in the machine.  (Actually, since it is multiple tapes, it can't be.) >  > T > Sorry if I misinterpreted it.  If I recall correctly, the boot code found on TU58sO > only support the R80 or the RL02 disks.  I don't believe that it supports any G > tape drives, because the tape drive needs to be on a separate unibus  M > controller.  The TU58 had a capacity of an 8" floppy disk and was processed M > like it was a floppy disk.  I am not aware that SABACKUP could be on a TU58 I > media.   As far as I know you'll need to find someone that can make you  > an RL02 with SABACKUP. <snip>  G IIRC Standalone Backup was loaded from THREE TU58 cartridges.  It took  H something like thirty or forty minutes to boot SABACKUP from them on an I 11/750. My memory is DIMM because: a. I'm an old fart, and b. the 11/750   was scrapped in the late 1980s.   G I just happen to have three TU58 cartridges (with HSC v4.1 Software on  G them) but no means of reading them or writing them.  Anybody who wants  C them, make me an offer.  (The nostalgia wore thin a long time ago!)    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.661 ************************