1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 02 Dec 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 662       Contents:
 Re: Mentec Newbie needs advice  Re: OpenVMS Clustering Question  Re: recursive copy in VMS  Re: recursive copy in VMS ' Re: Suggestion for TYPE (output pacing) ' Re: Suggestion for TYPE (output pacing) ' Re: Suggestion for TYPE (output pacing) ' Re: Suggestion for TYPE (output pacing) ! Re: VAX 11/730 SABACKUP questions ! Re: VAX 11/730 SABACKUP questions ! Re: VAX 11/730 SABACKUP questions ! Re: VAX 11/730 SABACKUP questions   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 1 Dec 2006 18:59:32 GMT ( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Mentec 0 Message-ID: <4tbcckF132a4rU3@mid.individual.net>  ; In article <45700A36.24947.3CF2DA1@squayle.insight.rr.com>, 5 	"Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com> writes: . > On 1 Dec 2006 at 7:54, David D Miller wrote:H >> There is always StrobeData:: http://www.strobedata.com/home/home.html > D > Unless it's changed, Mentec owns all the PDP-11 operating systems.  F Let's be totally truthful here.  Mentec owns three of the PDP-11 OSes.G Sadly, they are the three most popular outside of BSD.  And, of course, G a couple of the other non-Unix OSes for the PDP-11 have apparently been  lost.    > F > Heck, there's a PDP-11 emulator from SRI [Shameless Plug Alert(tm)} B > and one from Logical Co.  But if you can't get the OS and tools  > anymore...   And a free one, too!!    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 1 Dec 2006 19:05:11 -0800 ( From: "Zack Kline" <Z_kline@hotmail.com> Subject: Newbie needs adviceC Message-ID: <1165028711.896119.139420@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    Hello,D      I've made a few posts to this group some time ago, as I recall,F but didn't have my own VMS system at that point.  In some ways I stillC don't: this is only a SIMH emulation, but apparently SIMH is pretty  good at it. F      Anyhow, I'm not an old-time VMS user.  I have only used computersB seriously for about eight years.  Windows, naturally, was my firstG introduction to them, and it's still the host operating system on which  I run the SIMH. ?      My configuration is pretty standard, with VMS v7.3 for the G VAXserver 3900, and two RA92 disks: one system, one user.  I understand 7 that the RA92 is about one GB or two, I forget exactly. F      However, I've encountered a few issues, non-SIMH-specific mostly.B One is the fact that the system seems to slow down noticeably whenE Multinet and such is running.  That could just be because of how many ? log files and such are open, too.  Operator.log, in particular, G probably grows pretty fast.  What I'm wondering is if anyone could give / me advice for how to avoid the following error: D %qman-e-nodiskspace...  Or perhaps it's %qman-e-nodisk.  Either way,F the system disk seems to get filled somehow.  I'd also appreciate someD advice on general VMS housekeeping procedures.  How would I go aboutF setting up a batch queue and jobs to handle the most common operations internally? C      Finally, I've got some confusion about system parameters.  I'm G somewhat worried about oversetting one, like gblpages or gblsections or B the various other settings that you can put in modparams.dat.  CanD anyone explain these to me, or at least tell me what I don't need to worry about?D      I know about the HP manuals and documentation available online.G While I think I'm getting some of that, bit by bit, it's still a lot to E take in.  Any help would be appreciated.  Sorry for the verbocity and B length of this post, but the system is taking five minutes to shut. down...Not typical at all.  I wish I knew why. Thanks,  Zack.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 15:58:58 -0500 8 From: Stephen Hoffman <Hoff@HoffmanLabs-RemoveThis-.Org>( Subject: Re: OpenVMS Clustering Question) Message-ID: <ekq52k$17ov$1@pyrite.mv.net>   
 Andrew wrote:  > David J Dachtera wrote:  >> M White wrote: M >>> It's been awhile since I worked with OpenVMS clustering.  Do they have it N >>> now so if one node goes down the processes on the downed node get switchedN >>> to the remaining node(s) without manually logging into the remaining node?E >> If you can develop that technology, you'll be the next Bill Gates.  > # > Why develop what already exists ?  > D > Lets take the most commonly used Enterprise Application deployment! > infrastructure J2EE + Oracle...   8    Been reading and remembering my old blog entries, eh?  D    PHP, Perl, C and arguably even DCL all have this same capability.  G    If you're built on a database, you have transactional control.  And  F if your database supports it, distributed connections.  And sure, you I can even write your own applications this way -- if you're willing, even  I the venerable Apple II can support application-based checkpoint-restart.     Albeit slowly.  A    Folks are interested when there are applications that are not  D transactional and working with more traditional files and such, and H particularly when these applications operate for non-trivial intervals, E and this part of the market would obviously and reasonably prefer to  H push (part of) the work of checkpoint-restart into the operating system.  G    And that old blog entry had a discussion of using a database as the  C file system, which is an approach that can capture the part of the  B market that is unable and/or unwilling to select a database-based D application.  This because not everybody can afford Oracle, and not B everybody wants to deal with an overtly transaction-based system, F whether from an underlying database or from explicit application code.   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Dec 2006 11:24:29 -0800 $ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>" Subject: Re: recursive copy in VMSC Message-ID: <1165001069.132859.292960@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > AEF wrote:J > > What BACKUP command did you expect would restore a tree to a tree thatE > > didn't include the ellipsis wildcard (aside from BACKUP/IMAGE and   > > BACKUP/PHYSICAL, of course)? > L > The problem is that you need the ... at both ends, and that isn't natural.   How is it not "natural"?  G > If you forget it in the destination, then you end up with a big mess.    So you're saying that        $ BACKUP [DIR1...] [DIR2]   F should preserve the input parameter's directory tree structure? [DIR2]F means [DIR2]. [...] means [...]. That's not "natural"? What exactly do you mean by "natural"?  F > And if you do BACKUP [.recipes...]*.*  disk:[chocolate...]  it isn'tH > obvious if the tree will be replicated under [chocolate.recipes...] or > under [chocolate...]  B That's why there's a manual. Anyway, what command format would you recommend as an alternative?  9 > This is stuff that a MAC used never has to worry about.   ? I don't know enough about DECwindows (it has no folder dragging . capability?) and MACs to comment on this one.    AEF    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2006 00:13:35 GMT 9 From: Bob Harris <nospam.News.Bob@remove.Smith-Harris.us> " Subject: Re: recursive copy in VMSD Message-ID: <nospam.News.Bob-B89067.19133101122006@news.verizon.net>  8 In article <bf152$456fb1a5$cef8887a$11259@TEKSAVVY.COM>,/  JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:    > AEF wrote:J > > What BACKUP command did you expect would restore a tree to a tree thatE > > didn't include the ellipsis wildcard (aside from BACKUP/IMAGE and   > > BACKUP/PHYSICAL, of course)? > M > The problem is that you need the ... at both ends, and that isn't natural.  G > If you forget it in the destination, then you end up with a big mess.  > G > And if you do BACKUP [.recipes...]*.*  disk:[chocolate...]  it isn't  I > obvious if the tree will be replicated under [chocolate.recipes...] or   > under [chocolate...] > 9 > This is stuff that a MAC used never has to worry about.   B so write a Command Procedure to do what you prefer, then use your  own custom command.   A BACKUP has been this way for over 20 years, it is unlikely to be  $ changed before VMS is retired by HP.   VMS SYSTEM admin 1979-1985  2                                         Bob Harris   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Dec 2006 20:18:17 GMT  From: healyzh@aracnet.com 0 Subject: Re: Suggestion for TYPE (output pacing), Message-ID: <ekq2m901r6s@enews3.newsguy.com>  . JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote:
 > Suggestion:    > TYPE/PACING=<number>  H > Where <number> would be some time value where the TYPE command pauses K > between each line that has been outputted. This would slow down the TYPE  5 > command and allow one to better control the output.   L I like the idea, just this portion could be easily implemented in just a few lines of Perl.  H > Added suggestion: If the above is implemented, the + and - keys would J > reduce or augment the pause between lines to quicken or slow the output N > rate. So you could dynamically change the output rate to slow down in areas I > of interest and then quicken the output to skip boring parts of a file.   K This on the other hand would take a little more work, and would probably be * better done in a language other than Perl.  K Realistically, I suspect your best bet to get this is to write it yourself.    		Zane   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Dec 2006 13:15:52 -0800 $ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>0 Subject: Re: Suggestion for TYPE (output pacing)C Message-ID: <1165007752.886227.287010@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Bob Koehler wrote:I > >    And of course, any real VT and most emulators have a smooth-scroll B > >    option which is just about exactly what you're looking for. > K > A couple years ago, I put up a chistmas VT animation for people to telnet M > to. But unfortunatly many complained that it went too fast and you couldn't  > see a thing.   Well why didn't you say so!!!   E You need to run the animation over a 9600 baud or similar connection, 2 preferably to a real VT terminal for best results.   > K > On my alpha, a more complex (adult) animation I got from an IBM mainframe K > is no longer viewable because it almost immediatly goes to the last frame # > (they were 3270 screen captures).    Same.    > I > TYP/PAGE doesn't work in that case because there are no "pages". Smooth I > scroling doesn't work because no scrolling is necessary in those cases.  > J > And type/page cannot be automated, it requires a human be there to press > some key to continue.   7 You need TYPE/THROTTLE. You need to write your own app.   : These animations were designed for VT terminals over "slowF connections".  I'm afraid they're incompatible with telnet (unless youD run over a really slow WAN, and even then it might run erratically).   AEF    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 23:30:26 +0100 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> 0 Subject: Re: Suggestion for TYPE (output pacing)J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-A1CAC4.23302601122006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  C In article <1165007752.886227.287010@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com>, &  "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote:  G > You need to run the animation over a 9600 baud or similar connection, 4 > preferably to a real VT terminal for best results.  G Exactly what I did recently to see one mentioned here. I connected the  9 serial ports on my Alpha together and used SET HOST /DTE.    --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 22:56:55 -05003 From: "Peter Weaver" <info-vax@weaverconsulting.ca> 0 Subject: Re: Suggestion for TYPE (output pacing)6 Message-ID: <000001c715c7$8d966f30$2802a8c0@CHARONVAX>   >...L >> A couple years ago, I put up a chistmas VT animation for people to telnetF >> to. But unfortunatly many complained that it went too fast and you  >> couldn't  >> see a thing.  >...  L Here is what I did for the Christmas animations. I remember when I wrote it L that I thought P2 would have to be a number in the 1000's, but once I wrote J it I found that my first guess was way off the mark and 15 worked fine on M the system I was using at the time. I think it worked on all the animations,  H but there was a problem or two with some of them and I forget if I ever M fixed the problems. I'm  not sure if this file was included in the Christmas  L Animations and SIXEL graphic files I sent to www.vt100.net a few years ago. L BTW: I did not write any of the animations, I found them on Compuserve many G years ago, I did create one of the SIXEL graphics on my Rainbow though.    $! $ if p2 .eq. 0 then p2 = 15  $ cr[0,8]=13 $! $ open infile 'p1 /read  $ open screen tt:/read $! $loop_on_read:% $ read infile inline /end=end_of_file < $ read screen /time=0 dummy/error=next_line1 /prompt="''cr'" $next_line1: $! $ line_length=f$length(inline) $ pos=-1 $! $loop_on_line: $! $ pos=pos+1 0 $ if pos .gt. line_length then goto loop_on_read $!# $ char="''f$extract(pos,1,inline)'" > $ read screen /time=0 dummy/error=next_line2 /prompt="''char'" $next_line2: $! $ delay = 0  $loop_on_delay:  $ delay = delay+1 + $ if delay .lt. 'p2 then goto loop_on_delay  $ goto loop_on_line 
 $end_of_file:  $ close infile $ close screen   Peter Weaver www.weaverconsulting.ca 8 CHARON-VAX  CHARON-AXP DataStream Reflection PreciseMail   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 19:38:13 +0100 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> * Subject: Re: VAX 11/730 SABACKUP questionsJ Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-4FE49A.19381301122006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  4 In article <__ybh.1008$I6.789@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>,)  ChrisQuayle <nospam@devnul.co.uk> wrote:   J > Have found a 3 x tu58 stabackup tape set for vms 4.3, but don't know if ; > this would be suitable for later versions of vms, or not.   H I'm pretty confident that so long as it has drivers for the hardware in G question that should be fine for restoring at least a base 5.4 system,   then work from that.   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 19:32:37 +0100 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch> * Subject: Re: VAX 11/730 SABACKUP questionsJ Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-513B0C.19323701122006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  9 In article <TvGdnRr-PedAq_DYnZ2dnUVZ_qCdnZ2d@libcom.com>, )  Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:    > Remember STABACKIT >   F Indeed. I used to use it to build a standalone backup in an alternate G root on system and data disks alike. It saved booting from TU58 and on   later VAX models, TK50s.  G In fact you could boot into it on disk and use that disk as the target  I of a BACKUP/IMAGE operation. ISTR that I'd deliberately feed it a syntax  D error first to ensure that the error code had been read into memory.   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 13:31:32 -0800 / From: rvfulltime <rvfulltime@_removeme_isp.com> * Subject: Re: VAX 11/730 SABACKUP questions8 Message-ID: <2g71n2h697v5m5hviv2jaock6pbjgh734d@4ax.com>  Z On 1 Dec 2006 08:25:22 -0600, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:  k >In article <f8fvm2t2df8l2h8j3tdmtn0o8041k1cmcr@4ax.com>, rvfulltime <rvfulltime@_removeme_isp.com> writes:  > 3 >>  I am not aware that SABACKUP could be on a TU58 J >> media.   As far as I know you'll need to find someone that can make you >> an RL02 with SABACKUP.  > H >   I've booted an 11/750 STABACKUP from TU58 once, and 11/780 STABACKUPD >   from floppies many times.  While I've never had an 11/730 I'd beC >   quite surprised if it can't boot STABACKUP from TU58.  The OP's 1 >   problem is in getting a copy on TU58 or RL02.   U OK.  I'll accept that.  Like I said it's been over 15 years.  I always used the RL02  
 for SABACKUP.    --  = Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Dec 2006 16:11:56 -0800  From: sean@obanion.us * Subject: Re: VAX 11/730 SABACKUP questionsB Message-ID: <1165018316.937248.256720@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com>  G This was my first VAX, when I got to install VMS 3.0 or there abouts on G a new R80 because the lack of A/C in the university basement caused the C first R80 to melt. The VMS kit was on an RL02, and I think I had it $ booted off the R80 in about an hour.  ? In order to write to the TU58, I had to issue a CONSOLE CONNECT G command, and then run STABACKUP.  In VMS 3, Standalone BACKUP's command C line interpreter ran off the media, which meant that a command line G typo took 5-10 minutes to return an error message.  But by VMS 5 it was 8 read into memory and command typos failed much faster...  D The university added a TU80 (or TU81?) 9-track tape drive, so I quitF using the RL02 as backup storage, and brought up STABACKUP on the RL02F rather than the TU58.  The boot TU58 had to have the correct boot fileF on it.  I don't remember if I had one TU58 for the R80 (DUA0) boot andC another for the TU80 (MUA0) boot, but I don't recall having to swap D tapes so I think the DU and TU boot files where small enough to both fit.  D So the trick here will be to find a TU58 with both boot files on it,C and a 9-track copy of the VMS install kit.  I don't think there was G much change to BACKUP file formats for the supported version for VMS on E the 730, and this quickspec says that VMS 6.2 was the last to support C it, even thought the same document says that 7.3 will run on a 730: D http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/10715_na/10715_na.HTML  G The 750 had a similar console, and I've found a link to it, but no 730: G http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/73final/documentation/pdf/750_INSTALL.pdf      Sean     Paul Sture wrote: ; > In article <TvGdnRr-PedAq_DYnZ2dnUVZ_qCdnZ2d@libcom.com>, + >  Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:  >  > > Remember STABACKIT > >  > G > Indeed. I used to use it to build a standalone backup in an alternate H > root on system and data disks alike. It saved booting from TU58 and on > later VAX models, TK50s. > H > In fact you could boot into it on disk and use that disk as the targetJ > of a BACKUP/IMAGE operation. ISTR that I'd deliberately feed it a syntaxF > error first to ensure that the error code had been read into memory. >  > --   > Paul Sture   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.662 ************************