1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 03 Dec 2006	Volume 2006 : Issue 665       Contents:! Re: DECNET during SYSHUTDWN.COM ? ! Re: DECNET during SYSHUTDWN.COM ?  Left in the dust?  Re: Left in the dust?  Re: Left in the dust?  Re: Left in the dust?  Re: Left in the dust? 
 Re: Mentec+ MON CLUSTER still broken (8.3 with 7.3 vax) 8 Re: New location for GNV compatible .PCSI$COMPRESS kits. Re: recursive copy in VMS  SHOW LOGICAL oddity  Re: SHOW LOGICAL oddity  Re: SHOW LOGICAL oddity ' Suggestion: DECTERM and LOGOUT/NOHANGUP   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2006 14:15:03 +0100 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)* Subject: Re: DECNET during SYSHUTDWN.COM ?, Message-ID: <4572dbe7$1@news.langstoeger.at>  h In article <b1dd0$4572ba2b$cef8887a$19548@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:D >I need to run a task during system shutdown under a different user. > L >During the execution of SYSHUTDWN.COM, is DECNET (4) garanteed to still be  >available ?  9 No. DECnet is shut down before SYSHUTDWN.COM even starts. G A rest of DECnet remain working, because you should be able to shutdown E via a CTERM session, but this is probably not enough for you (and not K even for VMS itself, eg. you can't shutdown VMS from a CTERM DECnet-over-IP  session)  I I always wanted VMS to change the startup and shutdown behaviour now that D DECnet is yet another stack/product and no longer mandatory for VMS.  F I wanted to control DECnet startup (in SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM) and shutdownI (in SYSHUTDWN.COM) in my own procedures. Currently, it could be done only D with great effort (define a logical to prevent DECnet startup in VMSD startup, then remove the logical and start DECnet in SYSTARTUP_VMS -H or invoke your own shutdown procedure, but named SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN.COMK so that SYSMAN uses it too, invoke SYSHUTDWN.COM there, which shuts DECnet, H then invoke the original SYS$SYSTEM:SHUTDOWN.COM, now named differently,C which then invokes SYSHUTDWN.COM again) and this is sick, isn't it.    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2006 18:10:21 GMT 6 From: "Malcolm Dunnett" <info@cruising-for-a-cause.ca>* Subject: Re: DECNET during SYSHUTDWN.COM ?+ Message-ID: <hqEch.15608$YV4.9838@edtnps89>   ; "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> wrote in message  2 news:b1dd0$4572ba2b$cef8887a$19548@TEKSAVVY.COM...D |I need to run a task during system shutdown under a different user. | L | During the execution of SYSHUTDWN.COM, is DECNET (4) garanteed to still be
 | available ?  |  | K | I tried it just now, and it seemed to work. But am wondering whether this & | would be acceptable practice or not. |   C When I need to do this ( eg to shut down Oracle ) I use HGLOGIN. It < should be on the freeware disks, or you can retrieve it from various web sites, eg < http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?HGLOGIN  " | I do a TYPE 0"user"::"0=procnam" |  | and in procnam.com, I  |  | $OPEN/write TEMP SYS$NET6 | $write temp "Starting shutdown of chocolate factory" | $@chocolate_shutdown: | $write temp "Chocolate factory shutdown, JF will starve"
 | $close temp  |     You could do something like:      HGLOGIN user @procnam.com   6 you wouldn't need the open/close to temp, hglogin will. direct sys$output back to the calling process.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Dec 2006 23:11:44 -0800 ( From: "Zack Kline" <Z_kline@hotmail.com> Subject: Left in the dust?B Message-ID: <1165129904.775726.49000@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com>   Hello,D Perhaps this is just one instance where I'm being overly paranoid onE behalf of something that I shouldn't worry about.  However, it occurs G to me that I'm running OpenVMS 7.3 on my emulator.  That's 7.3 for VAX, E which as I understand it is the last VAX version.  I'm worried mostly A about being left behind, as it were.  The descriptions of certain F OpenVMS tools requiring the Alpha or IA64 processors are discouraging.D GNV, for instance, and a number of other companies which claim to be phasing out VAX support.F I am unfortunately only able to make real practical use of an emulatedC system.  That's mainly because of the fact that no real support has @ been implemented in VMS for a screen reader, which is a piece ofD technology I find pretty near essential.  I am just worried that theD emulated system will gradually fall out of date and lose useability.A If this is something I don't need to worry about, please tell me.  Thanks,  Zack.    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2006 00:35:28 -0800 ( From: "Zack Kline" <Z_kline@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Left in the dust?C Message-ID: <1165134928.614648.153930@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > Zack Kline wrote: I > > which as I understand it is the last VAX version.  I'm worried mostly ( > > about being left behind, as it were. >  > L > This is a very valid concern.  The gap is now wide enough that even publicH > domain sofwtare doesn't make it to VAX because VAX-VMS lacks some core > system requirements. >  > J > Use google on comp.os.vms for "DS10L blowout"  in september or august ofM > 2007. You'll find a very affordable Alpha box.  And that can brig you up to  > date. E While this is a good idea, it is sadly out of my capabilities.  I'm a F computer user who is totally blind.  Emulation is about the only route@ for me simply because the screen reading software is written forC Windows, (and now MAC OS X), because those are the systems that get D market share.  Linux has a few offerings here and their, and they'reB admirable for what they are, but they aren't VMS or even VMS-like.D I'm the first to admit that as of right now I've no serious, drivingE reason to use VMS.  I'm a hobbyist who uses it (A) because it's there A to be used, and (B), and this is perhaps a somewhat more sensable @ reason: it was designed to be a command line OS.  Its syntax andE consistency are ideal for me to use, and it has an entirely different C mindset from the Unix one, which I enjoy simply because it is that, 
 different.F Hopefully this post will serve to make clear a few more reasons for myD concern, and my desire to keep exploring VMS.  It was designed right) along with the VAX hardware, after all...  Thanks,  Zack.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2006 16:18:57 +0100 / From: Paul Sture <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch>  Subject: Re: Left in the dust?J Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-D27AEE.16185703122006@mac.sture.homeip.net>  C In article <1165134928.614648.153930@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, *  "Zack Kline" <Z_kline@hotmail.com> wrote:   > JF Mezei wrote:  > L > > Use google on comp.os.vms for "DS10L blowout"  in september or august ofO > > 2007. You'll find a very affordable Alpha box.  And that can brig you up to 	 > > date.  > G > While this is a good idea, it is sadly out of my capabilities.  I'm a H > computer user who is totally blind.  Emulation is about the only routeB > for me simply because the screen reading software is written forE > Windows, (and now MAC OS X), because those are the systems that get F > market share.  Linux has a few offerings here and their, and they'reD > admirable for what they are, but they aren't VMS or even VMS-like.  B Would the screen reading software be able to work with a terminal H emulator running on Wndows or OS X connected to an Alpha? Alphas can be , run from a text only terminal, and many are.   --  
 Paul Sture   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2006 07:31:20 -0800 ' From: "bclaremont" <msi1@earthlink.net>  Subject: Re: Left in the dust?@ Message-ID: <1165159880.826336.8400@80g2000cwy.googlegroups.com>  E SRI and Emulators Inc. offer a PersonalAlpha emulator for Windows x32 G that is affordable.  That would allow you to run the current version of > VMS.  If interested, contact Daryl Reynolds at RTS for pricing information:   281-383-3200! dreynold at reynolds-tech dot com   
 Good Luck!   Bruce Claremont  OpenVMS Stealth Marketing Squad  www.MigrationSpecialties.com   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2006 07:31:55 -0800 ' From: "bclaremont" <msi1@earthlink.net>  Subject: Re: Left in the dust?C Message-ID: <1165159915.710462.229790@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com>   E SRI and Emulators Inc. offer a PersonalAlpha emulator for Windows x32 G that is affordable.  That would allow you to run the current version of > VMS.  If interested, contact Daryl Reynolds at RTS for pricing information:   281-383-3200! dreynold at reynolds-tech dot com   
 Good Luck!   Bruce Claremont  OpenVMS Stealth Marketing Squad  www.MigrationSpecialties.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2006 01:45:51 -0500 ' From: Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  Subject: Re: Mentec 9 Message-ID: <OuOdnStygOYy7-_YnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@libcom.com>    George Cook wrote:] > In article <4tbcckF132a4rU3@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > >> In article <45700A36.24947.3CF2DA1@squayle.insight.rr.com>,8 >> 	"Stanley F. Quayle" <squayle@insight.rr.com> writes:0 >>> On 1 Dec 2006 at 7:54, David D Miller wrote:J >>>> There is always StrobeData:: http://www.strobedata.com/home/home.htmlF >>> Unless it's changed, Mentec owns all the PDP-11 operating systems.I >> Let's be totally truthful here.  Mentec owns three of the PDP-11 OSes. J >> Sadly, they are the three most popular outside of BSD.  And, of course,J >> a couple of the other non-Unix OSes for the PDP-11 have apparently been >> lost. > J > Anyone remember DOS/Batch.  The last release (V10) was in 1975.  I don'tF > think that release got wide distribution since the source kit tape IJ > still have has a hand written DEC label.  Anyone know what the licensingG > terms for DOS/Batch were?  I wouldn't mind seeing it running again; I J > still have some Rollin tapes (RK05 and/or RK07 images) of built systems. >  > 
 > George Cook  > WVNET   > In that timeframe RSTS/E was generated for a system using DOS.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2006 07:00:47 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 4 Subject: MON CLUSTER still broken (8.3 with 7.3 vax)8 Message-ID: <1dbf6$4572bc73$cef8887a$20800@TEKSAVVY.COM>  L While the SPD says that a Alpha 8.3 will support its existence in a cluster I with VAX 7.3 nodes, the MONITOR CLUSTER presents incompatibilities. I've  = just installed plenty of VAX 7.3 patches, but to no avail....    (from an alpha node)	 $ mon clu A %MONITOR-I-ESTABCON, establishing connection to remote node(s)... I %MONITOR-E-SRVMISMATCH, MONITOR server on remote node is an incompatible   version  %MONITOR-I-CONT, continuing.... J %MONITOR-I-WAIT, Collecting data from remote nodes, it could take several  minutes, please wait.....     B from a VAX with many of the 7.3 patches: (BIKE is an Alpha at 8.3)  	 $ mon clu A %MONITOR-I-ESTABCON, establishing connection to remote node(s)... 7 %VPM-W-NOCONNECT, Unable to connect to remote node BIKE 7 -MONITOR-W-NODEINIERR, error during node initialization  %MONITOR-I-CONT, continuing....     J (and then the typical MON CLU display is shown. All disks are listed, but  only the alpha node is shown)    Any chance this will be fixed ?    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2006 12:07:25 +0100 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)A Subject: Re: New location for GNV compatible .PCSI$COMPRESS kits. , Message-ID: <4572bdfd$1@news.langstoeger.at>  k In article <urudnTqSirPmb-zYnZ2dnUVZ_o6dnZ2d@adelphia.com>, "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> writes: G >The PCSI$COMPRESSED kits for the following packages have been moved to  >   >   ftp://encompasserve.org/gnv/ > D >     jpeg 6.0b           jem-axpvms-jpeg-v0600-0b-1.pcsi_compressedF >     libpng 1.2-13       jem-axpvms-libpng-v0102-13-1.pcsi_compressedH >     libxrender 0.9      jem-axpvms-libxrender-v0009--1.pcsi_compressedJ >     pkgconfig 0.21      jem-axpvms-pkgconfig-v0021-0e1-1.pcsi_compressedC >     tiff 3.8.2          jem-axpvms-tiff-v0308-2-1.pcsi_compressed C >     zlib 1.2.3          jem-axpvms-zlib-v0102-3-1.pcsi_compressed D >     renderext 0.9       jem-vms-renderext-v0009--1.pcsi_compressed > J >You may need to rename the extension to .pcsi$compress after downloading I >the file.  As Encompasserve.org uses multinet, dollar signs are causing  B >a change in case in the name displayed and also making the files 7 >inaccessible.  I renamed the files to get around this.   H Never ever offer vanilla .PCSI or .PCSI$COMPRESSED files for downloadingL via web (or FTP). Use always a packaged format. I strongly recommend ZIPSFX.  G While a ZIPped .PCSI$COMPRESSED file doesn't gain much when zipped (but F it does get smaller, try it) it isn't worth the trouble to reconstruct  such kits after downloading them  2 	$ SET FILE/ATT=(LRL=32256,RAT=NONE,RFM=FIX) *.BCK2 	$ SET FILE/ATT=(LRL=8192,RAT=NONE,RFM=FIX) *.PCSI< 	$ SET FILE/ATT=(LRL=512,RAT=NONE,RFM=FIX) *.PCSI$COMPRESSED   And use "-9V" while ZIPping 3 And then, tou don't have problems with dollars, too    --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2006 07:21:54 -0800 $ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>" Subject: Re: recursive copy in VMSB Message-ID: <1165159314.559300.122070@f1g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   Jan-Erik S=F6derholm wrote: 2 > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote : > E > > Many responses mentioned backup.  COPY can also do the [...] bit.  > ) > Both as input *and* output file spec ??    Yes.  0 > I didn't know that. When was that introduced ?  E When? I don't know. It was supposed to work quite a while ago (VMS v3 G or v4? -- even earlier?), but it was broken for a (very?) long time, so C many of us used BACKUP all these years and can barely remember that G COPY now does this successfully. I don't know when it was fixed, but it G works in VMS v6.1 and v6.2. So it was fixed sometime between v3 and v6.     F Note that BACKUP will preserve modification dates and COPY won't. ThisF will affect incremental backups that use /SINCE=3D<date/time>, but not" those that use /SINCE=3DBACKUP.=20  
 > Regards, > Jan-Erik.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2006 06:13:39 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com>  Subject: SHOW LOGICAL oddity6 Message-ID: <3bd93$4572b167$cef8887a$691@TEKSAVVY.COM>   Alpha VMS 8.3 :       >$ show log sysuaf/fullC  >   "SYSUAF" [super] = "SYS$SYSTEM:SYSUAF.DAT" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE) ?  >   "SYSUAF" [super] = "$DISK1:[VMS$COMMON.SYSEXE]SYSUAF.DAT"   (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)  >$ deassign/proc sysuaf  >$ deassign/system sysuaf  >$ show log sysuaf/full>  >   "SYSUAF" [exec] = "$DISK1:[VMS$COMMON.SYSEXE]SYSUAF.DAT"  (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)  >$   L Shouldn't the [exec] definition have been listed along with the [super] one  in the SYSTEM table ?   I And if only one translation can be shown per table, shouldn't the [exec]  & take precedence over the [super] one ?   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2006 14:02:22 +0100 6 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOEGER)  Subject: Re: SHOW LOGICAL oddity, Message-ID: <4572d8ee$1@news.langstoeger.at>  f In article <3bd93$4572b167$cef8887a$691@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> writes:M >Shouldn't the [exec] definition have been listed along with the [super] one   >in the SYSTEM table ?  J This could be discussed, but behaviour has been so for the last decades...  J >And if only one translation can be shown per table, shouldn't the [exec] ' >take precedence over the [super] one ?   3 No. The order is user,supervisory,executive,kernel. I The fact, that some programs start their lookup at a deeper level doesn't  change the order...   I You could do a SHOW LOGICAL/ACCESS_MODE=EXECUTIVE if you do want to check  exec first:    SHOW  	   LOGICAL        /ACCESS_MODE             /ACCESS_MODE=mode   H        Displays names defined in the specified access mode and any innerE        access modes. You can specify one of the following keywords to G        indicate the access mode: USER_MODE, SUPERVISOR_MODE, EXECUTIVE_         MODE, or KERNEL_MODE.  H        The default value for this qualifier is USER_MODE; by default any:        definitions in all four access modes are displayed.   --   Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER % Network and OpenVMS system specialist  E-mail  peter@langstoeger.atF A-1030 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Dec 2006 07:32:07 -0800 $ From: "AEF" <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>  Subject: Re: SHOW LOGICAL oddityB Message-ID: <1165158958.135907.31460@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  > Alpha VMS 8.3 :  >  >  >  >$ show log sysuaf/fullE >  >   "SYSUAF" [super] = "SYS$SYSTEM:SYSUAF.DAT" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE) @ >  >   "SYSUAF" [super] = "$DISK1:[VMS$COMMON.SYSEXE]SYSUAF.DAT" > (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE) >  >$ deassign/proc sysuaf >  >$ deassign/system sysuaf >  >$ show log sysuaf/full? >  >   "SYSUAF" [exec] = "$DISK1:[VMS$COMMON.SYSEXE]SYSUAF.DAT"  > (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE) >  >$  > M > Shouldn't the [exec] definition have been listed along with the [super] one  > in the SYSTEM table ?   B Well, one could argue that, but it isn't. If you want to see both,/ include a wildcard. You could, for example, run   $     $ SHOW LOGICAL/FULL SYSUAF,ZZZZ*  = and that will show you both, but then you won't get iterative % translation of the equivalence names.    > J > And if only one translation can be shown per table, shouldn't the [exec]( > take precedence over the [super] one ?   No. See Peter's post.    AEF    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2006 04:32:36 -0500 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> 0 Subject: Suggestion: DECTERM and LOGOUT/NOHANGUP6 Message-ID: <ddfee$457299b7$cef8887a$681@TEKSAVVY.COM>  I It would be convenient to be able to do a LOGOUT/NOHANGUP from a DECTERM  H and have the DECTERM window survive and present you with a login prompt.  9 (it already has the capability to handle logins with the  ' CREATE/TERM/DETACHED/NOLOGGED command).   J It is a pain to see a window destroyed and having to use various tools to 2 tell a remote node to recreate the decterm window.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2006.665 ************************